E363 A Failed Handstand and an Infestation of Prairie Dogs - Live Show at Comedy Works, Denver, CO
TOPICS: CHEESMAN PARK, THE SPIDER MAN OF DENVER AKA THEODORE EDWARD CONEYS
Cheesman Park aerial view. Photo Credit: SkylineScenes.com/ Bill Cobb
Theodore Edward Coneys
Illustration of Denver Spider Man in the attic. Photo Credit: American Weekly 1942
It's episode 363 and we're recovering from an infestation of prairie dogs, we mean some kerfuffles on tour that may or may not have included food poisoning and lost laptops... but we couldn't leave you high and dry today so we're digging into the archives of our live show audio to bring you a very special episode from Denver where we not only weathered altitude sickness but we also braved a bomb cyclone! First Em tells the ghostly history and tales of Denver's famous Cheesman Park. Then Christine covers a story that fuels our nightmares, the Spider Man of Denver aka Theodore Edward Coneys, a mushroom colored perpetrator. We can't wait to see you again next week, Denver! ...and that's why we drink!
Transcript
Christine Schiefer: Hello, my friends. Thank you so much for tuning in. Umm, we are releasing a live episode this week, which is something we have not done in a very long time. Umm, nothing catastrophic has happened. Umm, [chuckle], unless, I guess Em and Eva might punch me for saying that because there may have been a bout or two of food poisoning involved in our touring this past week. There also may have been, umm, some lost luggage, including a laptop. Yikes. Okay. So maybe it was a bit catastrophic, but nothing really that bad. Right, Em and Eva? We're gonna laugh about this later. Oh, they're gonna kill me. This is our live show from Denver many, many years ago. I don't remember what the heck I covered, but Eva found the old audio and listened to it and said it was fun.
Christine Schiefer: And apparently that was the week there was a bomb cyclone happening in the area and everyone was just kind of throwing that term around like we were supposed to know what it meant. But anyway, we figured we're going to Denver soon. Uh, things kind of went awry this week. So here's a live episode of the previous visit to Denver. Why does this sound like I'm making that up? I swear I'm not making that up. This is literally a [chuckle] live show of a visit to Denver. I'm trying to prevent my voice from doing that thing at the end where it goes up and it sounds like a question. 'Cause we really did go to Denver and this really is an episode of our Denver show. Now I'm spiraling. Okay. Enjoy this live show. I can't wait to listen. Love you so much. Okay, bye.
[applause]
[music]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, man.
Em Schulz: Hello.
Christine Schiefer: Hi Denver!
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck is going on outside? We're... [laughter] I haven't seen snow in a very long time.
Em Schulz: Thank you for coming... Thank you for coming to our once sold out show, but now I think half of you braved the storm. So thank you for making the whole trip first.
Christine Schiefer: Thanks for being awesome. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Ooh, jinx a. Uh, we are excited and happy that this didn't get canceled. [laughter] So yay.
[applause]
Em Schulz: And also thank you for, uh, being super loud because it makes our anxiety go away. [laughter] Yay!
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Maybe not go away but maybe hide for a little while.
Em Schulz: Yeah yeah yeah. At least until this is over. [laughter] Uh, so we do wanna address, uh, that yesterday, I don't know who was here yesterday if you all...
Christine Schiefer: What did I do? You're pointed at me.
Em Schulz: No, no, no. We, uh, we have experienced, uh, not much 'cause we've been traveling a lot, but one thing we definitely got out of our Denver experience is, umm, altitude sickness.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. That was terrible.
Em Schulz: And, uh...
Christine Schiefer: We didn't know what it was for a while either. [laughter]
Em Schulz: We, we got here and when as soon as we landed, I didn't feel right. And then, and then I was like, I feel like I could sleep for a thousand years. And then, and then I lied down in bed and then I was like, I don't think I'm breathing. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And then I had one glass of wine and I was like, something's very wrong. [laughter] I don't know what it is, but it's very wrong.
Em Schulz: And we hadn't really talked about it with each other. But then we came here and, uh, someone working with us backstage gave us a bunch of water and said, "You should drink up in case you get any altitude sickness." And we both just went, "Ohhh." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And then Eva, lovely Ms. Eva goes, "Oh right," she used to live here. She's like, "Oh, right. I forgot to like tell you guys about that." And we were like, "Eva!"
Em Schulz: "We're dying."
Christine Schiefer: We're dying. We're fine. We're better. I'm better today.
Em Schulz: I'm solid.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: But I wasn't yesterday and I had to warn the whole room. I have this thing where, uh, sometimes I get really lightheaded and so I have to like turn upside down. So like blood rushes back to my head. And I had to warn everyone. They might just see me like, like fail at a handstand in the middle of the show. [laughter] So I'm glad this might go more smoothly than that, so. Anyway, thank you guys for having us.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh, we're happy that this worked out and that we're here. Yay.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Yay. Yay. Everyone was tweeting like, is this still happening? And we were like, I think so. I don't know. We're just gonna Uber over there, so.
Em Schulz: We'll find out if people show up.
Christine Schiefer: We didn't know if five people would be here or all of you guys, so thank you.
Em Schulz: Thanks for coming to our intimate show. So, uh, we do have a drinking game for you.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: If you're willing and able.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: If you wanna brave the cold.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Drink till you're warm.
Christine Schiefer: Drink till you're warm.
Em Schulz: Uh, drink till we're funny.
Christine Schiefer: Also very much for that.
Em Schulz: And drink until both of those things happen. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. So good luck. I hope you, uh, have a designated driver. [laughter]
Em Schulz: If you need more structure than that, we do have some rules.
Christine Schiefer: We do. Em made them up.
Em Schulz: Uh, yeah, I made them. They're my rules. It's basically whenever Christine does anything, drink.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, mainly I guess, uh, drink if Christine gasps.
Christine Schiefer: It's extremely unlikely, so I wouldn't worry about that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: At the last show, people couldn't tell if you were gasping or like we couldn't breathe. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Somebody said that...
Em Schulz: So do we drink or call an ambulance? Like [laughter] he said whenever Christine gasps and someone's like, "She's just trying to get oxygen to her lungs." [laughter] She'd be like...
Christine Schiefer: It's true.
Em Schulz: Uh, also, drink if Christine goes... Uh, says, listen.
Christine Schiefer: We'll see. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So at that point, you're pretty warm and we're pretty funny, right? [laughter] Like, you've drank enough.
Christine Schiefer: No comment.
Em Schulz: Uh, and then also drink if Christine goes, "Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure."
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I do do that one. I do that one more than I care to admit. Yeah. Umm, but I do... I invented my own rule 'cause I was jealous that Em got all the rules. So my rule is that you have to drink anytime Em says, "Fun fact," which is a lot, by the way.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Like a lot a lot.
Em Schulz: And it's never a fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: No, it's not fun.
Em Schulz: It always makes you...
Christine Schiefer: So don't get excited about that. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It always makes you feel kind of sad you had to hear it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, also drink if we talk about the sweet baboo, little baby Gio.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He's back home in the warm sunshine.
Em Schulz: Aww, so sweet.
Christine Schiefer: Must be nice. Also drink if we, uh, tell Eva what to do, which we have yelled at her a lot about what to do.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Just face your first drink now.
Christine Schiefer: I'm cold, Eva. Help me.
Em Schulz: Just take your first drink now. Yeah. Well, uh, we'll probably tell her what to do...
Christine Schiefer: We do.
Em Schulz: Without even realizing it, so just be prepared.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh, drink wise, have your glass full. Uh, and then I guess that's it.
Christine Schiefer: Is that it?
Em Schulz: I... We have two bonus rounds. So drink...
Christine Schiefer: Alright.
Em Schulz: If we talk about my arch nemesis, Lemon.
Christine Schiefer: No. [laughter] Lemon is safe and sound in the sunshine with Gio.
Em Schulz: Lemon's doing great apparently. [laughter] Uh, and then also drink if I go, "Honestly... "
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: "It's just fucking funny." I'm not...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I do, I do drink during that, but not for fun reasons.
Em Schulz: I'm not saying it's funny. I'm just saying it's fucking hysterical. [laughter] Also, Christine genuinely actually hates that.
Christine Schiefer: No, I don't like it. So stop laughing at it please.
Em Schulz: So when...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: Whenever I go, "Honestly, it's just funny." She goes, "Honestly, shut the fuck up." So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's like actual verbatim. Yes.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter] So, uh, we hope that's enough to tie you over, uh...
Christine Schiefer: But just like... If you're like, "Am I supposed to... " Yeah, just drink.
Em Schulz: Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of how we play the game. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. It's... Everyone wins is the fun part of that. So...
Christine Schiefer: I win, I win the most. But you guys can get runner up. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Right. Well, we're starting the show and look at how full this bottle was.
Christine Schiefer: Eva and I were sharing it.
Em Schulz: Now it's so empty.
Christine Schiefer: Eva and I were sharing it. Yesterday, we weren't, but I learned from your altitude that [laughter], it's not a fun game to play. [laughter]
Em Schulz: That being said, I guess let's crack into it.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. Let's...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: You can drink to that one too, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: While we're at it.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Anytime there's like an awkward silence, just shovel them down. [laughter] Okay. So I tried to pick a story that I thought you guys wouldn't know, so you would... When you applaud it, wouldn't be because you feel bad for me. It would be 'cause you're like actually excited. So, umm, I tried to find... I typed in like most haunted Denver. I mean, it was a basic Google search, umm, but...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Someone jokingly asked that in the meet and greet line yesterday. They were like, "How do you find your stories? Do you just type in like Denver Ghost Denver murder?" And we were like, "Fuck, how do they know that?" That... [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, and she was like, "What's your process?"
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What's...
Em Schulz: And I was like, "Our process... "
Christine Schiefer: We were like, "Well... "
Em Schulz: "Frantically googling."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, anyway, frantically Googled. And I... This was like the first one on many, many listicles, if you will. Umm, so this is the story of Cheesman Park.
[applause]
Em Schulz: Who's to say if you actually knew that or felt bad, but that's...
Christine Schiefer: I think I've heard of it. If I've heard of it, they've heard of it, so.
Em Schulz: Okay, good. Well, I've made sure... It is Cheesman Park? Yes?
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Cool.
Christine Schiefer: I thought you were telling them. I was like, okay, God.
Em Schulz: In case you didn't know.
Christine Schiefer: Jesus. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, I have actually... We've done live shows and I was in the city that, telling a story that they all knew. And I was just saying it wrong the whole time.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That was awkward.
Em Schulz: So no one felt the need to correct me.
Christine Schiefer: They drank a lot though, so it's fine.
Em Schulz: That should be part of the game. Drink if I mispronounce something.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, that's dangerous.
Em Schulz: You'll be annihilated by the end. [laughter] So this one actually does start with an actual fun fact. So...
Audience: Drink!
Christine Schiefer: I'm telling you, it happens the entire time.
Em Schulz: So apparently, uh, Cheesman Park and the ghosts there are part of the inspiration for the movie Poltergeist.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm.
Em Schulz: Ooh, ah.
Christine Schiefer: I did not know that.
Em Schulz: So, uh, I'm gonna go into a little bit of the history. Some of it's fun, some of it's not, so.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Be ready. So let's travel back to 1858.
Christine Schiefer: Let's.
Em Schulz: My favorite year.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. Remember it well.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Fondly. Yeah. So, uh, General William Larimer. Do we know that name?
Audience: Yeah.
[applause]
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: I bet you there's like a Larimer High School or something.
Audience: There is.
Em Schulz: So there is something like that.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. I'm good at this. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, he's apparently the founder of Denver.
Audience: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Okay, cool. And the founder of your school...
Christine Schiefer: They were less confident about that one, but...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They were like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. I participated. We're... "
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This is your job.
Em Schulz: Right. So, uh, General Larimer, he, uh, took 320 acres and built them into Mount Prospect Cemetery, which was the first cemetery that was on this property. When I say took, I mean he took it from Native Americans.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: No comment, but yes.
Em Schulz: That's very... That is extremely shocking information. Thank you.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Uh, well that, that, that comes into play later. So he, uh, used the acres and built Mount Prospect Cemetery. So then he decided that, uh, this was going... I think this was also the very first cemetery in Denver. And so he had this layout in his mind of where all the types of bodies would go.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: I know. So he decided that only the richest and, uh, most elite bodies, dead bodies, could be buried at the top of the hill.
Christine Schiefer: The most elite dead bodies. Cool. Got it.
Em Schulz: I don't know what that means.
Christine Schiefer: Got it. It makes so... Total sense.
Em Schulz: That's up for you to figure out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh, and then he said that people in the middle class could be kind of buried on the hill, but like, kind of like at an angle, like they're sloping down. [laughter] And then, uh, and then the more lower class you were, the closer to the edge of the cemetery you were allowed to be buried. So that was his genius plan.
Christine Schiefer: Cool, that's nice.
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: He sounds like a great guy so far.
Em Schulz: No. Well, yeah. Taking land and... Yeah. He sounds like a real asshole, so...
Christine Schiefer: Super winner. [laughter]
Em Schulz: But...
Christine Schiefer: Sorry about your elementary school or whatever it was.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, this is not the first person to be buried, buried there, but the second person to be buried there was, uh, John Stoffel and his murder victim. Ooh, it's a twist.
Christine Schiefer: What?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, so him... His murder... Him and his murder victim are both buried there. His murder victim is also his brother-in-law.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: So family drama. So in 1859, so a year after the cemetery was built, uh, John came to Denver to visit his brother-in-law. And apparently they got into a fight and he shot him.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: Uh, he was convicted of murder and they were both buried together. And by together...
Christine Schiefer: Wait, he was convi...
Em Schulz: I mean together together. They were dumped into the same grave. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Wait, he was convicted of murder. What... Did they execute him? Or like why... Is he also dead?
Em Schulz: They, they hanged him. They hanged him.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. I was like, he just...
Em Schulz: Yeah, I didn't, didn't wanna tell you that.
Christine Schiefer: Just toss him in there. Okay.
Em Schulz: I wanted you to figure it out.
Christine Schiefer: Phew. Okay. I thought they buried him alive with his murder victim.
Em Schulz: Whoa.
Christine Schiefer: That is a little bit much.
Em Schulz: That's a punishment. So yeah. So they are both... They were the second and third people to be buried there and they are buried together.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: Fun fact. So...
Christine Schiefer: Em, stop it.
Em Schulz: In 1865, there were so many graves in the Catholic section 'cause he... Remember, he's like divvying up where everyone gets to stay, whether you're rich or your religion, all that. So the, uh, Catholic section was there were just too many graves. So he sold that land to the archdiocese and created Mount Calvary Cemetery. So it was the Catholic people were buried in their own cemetery now next to...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: The bigger cemetery.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: A couple years later, Congress said that, umm, the cemetery was federal land and they wanted to sell it to the city of Denver. And so they renamed it Denver City Cemetery.
Christine Schiefer: Clever.
Em Schulz: I know.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They didn't take a lot of time to name it.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So then... And it also got nicknamed to just City Cemetery. So now it's City Cemetery. It has over time fallen into disrepair and it's known as the Old Boneyard. Umm, which is ironic because apparently Cheesman Park is also has a reputation for being a meetup for gay men.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: Not part of the history at all. Just something I learned and needed to share.
Christine Schiefer: That is a fun fact. And that is when you say fun fact.
Em Schulz: That's the fun fact.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you. Not at the other stuff. That's the funnest fact you've said so far.
Em Schulz: So anyway, the Old Boneyard as it were, so.
Christine Schiefer: I love it. [laughter] Beautiful.
Em Schulz: Uh, so...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's pretty good.
Em Schulz: Thank you. I get a good dad joke in there every now and then. [laughter] Dad joke. I don't know about that with the gay...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Gay Boneyard. I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Alright. Okay. Alright.
Em Schulz: Our fun dad...
Christine Schiefer: Quit while you're ahead, my friend. [laughter]
Em Schulz: It's fine, it's fine. It's just funny. So.
Audience: Drink.
Christine Schiefer: Shit. We are... This is a troublesome for me.
Em Schulz: Bye, Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Good bye.
Em Schulz: Bye. See you tomorrow. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Hopefully.
Em Schulz: So, uh, this... At this point, because the whole place is just kind of getting run down, umm, mainly criminals and, uh, people who are not claimed are buried here.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: Umm, and tombstones are falling over. And apparently there is an infestation of prairie dogs.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Okay. So that's not a crazy thing to, to see. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: They're like, yeah, duh.
Em Schulz: They're like, "Who doesn't have a prairie dog infestation?"
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And, uh, apparently also a lot of cattle started just kind of waltzing on in and just...
Christine Schiefer: What the hell?
Em Schulz: Knocking things over and...
Christine Schiefer: Sure. Okay.
Em Schulz: So between prairie dogs and cows, this place was just... It was ridden silly with them. So, uh, embarrassed by the reputation that it was just kind of not to being taken care of well at all, umm, General Larimer renamed the burial ground, uh, in 1873. I didn't get what that name was, but he renamed it again, 'cause apparently you have to change it's name, in 1873. And, uh, it didn't help though, 'cause he wanted to start fixing it up and making it look nice, but, uh, at that same time, a smallpox hospital...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Was built right next door.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: And thousands of people were not just being... Were not just going there to get, uh, treatment, but a lot of family members were leaving them there to die.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Uh, and since they had so many patients and they didn't know what to do with all of them dying, they also, in their own backyard, started just creating mass graves.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, my God.
Em Schulz: So there was just more bodies upon more bodies, and they weren't able to clear up any of the property. Uh, and it said, I saw that it added thousands of bodies to an, an area already bearing thousands of bodies. So...
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: Umm, at the same time, the cemetery was, uh, just looking like crap, apparently. [laughter] The, the city was like, "Okay, we gotta do something about this." And this is around the 18... Late 1880s at this point. And the city asked Congress to make the cemetery a park. Umm, apparently it was like really nice real estate at that time, and they were like, "We need to do something else with it. It's clearly not really being a cemetery anymore. So let's turn into something else that people will use." So in 1890, umm, Congress allowed the city to create Congress Park, but they first needed to remove the bodies. So it now officially...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, great.
Em Schulz: Now officially has the name Congress Park, but they're like, "Well, we're gonna do a bunch of cleanup first before it's really a park." So in 1893, the, all the families of people who had loved ones that were buried in the previous cemetery, they were all told that they had 90 days to exhume the bodies.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. Why is that on them?
Em Schulz: And bury them elsewhere. I don't, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck? Okay.
Em Schulz: So most of the bodies were never claimed, apparently out of, uh, approximately 5,000 bodies in the cemetery, only 700 were claimed and exhumed.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, and what year was this?
Em Schulz: 1893.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You can't just like email people and be like... Like, how are you supposed to find all these people's relatives?
Em Schulz: Like your carrier pigeon like can't get... Can't fly that far. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Uh, so most of the bodies were never claimed. And for the 5,000 bodies that were not claimed, they needed to be removed by the city. And so the city hired a guy named EP McGovern.
Christine Schiefer: What a cool name.
Em Schulz: Not a cool guy, though. Hang on.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, nevermind. [laughter] I tried.
Em Schulz: So he had a contract with the city that he was going to exhume and rebury the bodies in brand new caskets. Umm, he was gonna rebury them. I guess there was a cemetery up north and he was supposed to bring them there and he was gonna get paid almost $2 per body or technically $2 per casket. So...
Christine Schiefer: Oh dear. Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, he realized that, "Oh, well, if there's... I can probably make a profit off of this and make more money if there's more caskets. And so he, instead of using adult-sized caskets...
Christine Schiefer: No. Nah.
Em Schulz: He used child-sized caskets. So that way there would be apparently three child-sized caskets fit one adult body.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Audience: Aww.
Em Schulz: So he was tripling his profit.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck? Sorry.
Em Schulz: And so...
Christine Schiefer: Sometimes I forget I have a microphone literally two millimeters from my face. I didn't mean to scream that at you. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Since they were smaller...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Is that better?
Em Schulz: Since the caskets were smaller, it meant that they would require... It would require more of them to stuff a whole body into and... Stuff is the correct word.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: I didn't mess that up. Uh, because he would exhume the body, he would, uh, dismember it...
Christine Schiefer: Nope.
Em Schulz: Quote, "Into chunks."
Audience: No.
Em Schulz: And then stuff them into caskets until they were full.
Audience: No.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And then, uh, there's an article that said this caused quite a mess with limbs and bones scattered about.
Christine Schiefer: Wow. Scattered about.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: That's quite a cute way to put it I guess.
Em Schulz: Right. [laughter] And there was some excuse kind of going around at one point that there was like a ca... An adult-sized casket shortage. And so he was like, "Well, I needed to use children's caskets."
Christine Schiefer: No, that's not a thing [laughter] I don't believe it.
Em Schulz: Which like, if there is a shortage, then just wait until there's more and then bury them. Uh, but anyway, so bodies were literally broken up and then, uh, sent apart from each other. So there might be like, this is really... Sorry. There's like a head on one side of town and like their arm on the other side of town. 'Cause they were just moving caskets and not labeling them, not giving them markers when they got to the graveyard, just bringing them to the cemetery. And all these bodies are just...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Everywhere. So fun fact.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Em, stop.
Em Schulz: So this also attracted looters to the cemetery because McGovern would not only be doing this horrible process, but he was pulling out caskets faster than he could actually dismember the bodies. And so he was leaving caskets open for years.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: And so he could get to them until like it was their turn in line. So he would go home after working and then people would just like, just, just strip the bodies from clothes and jewelry and, umm, it was not good.
Christine Schiefer: No, no, no, no.
Em Schulz: So people were coming in and knocking over headstones. Basically they were just violating the entire area. And in the 1870s, the authorities had been warned multiple times about what McGovern was doing. Umm, but they ignored it because they just wanted the bodies removed. And, uh, finally someone really looked into it. And I guess everyone was kinda thinking it was a rumor and they didn't believe it, but then they realized like, there are three times as many caskets being buried and they're all child size.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, God.
Em Schulz: So, Uh, they finally figured out that the rumors were true. And so the city canceled their contract with him. Umm, but they did not bother removing the rest of the 2,000 to 3,000 bodies...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shit.
Em Schulz: That he didn't get to. So you're not perfect, Denver.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I didn't say it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: That and, uh, altitude sickness is your only problems, but...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And this bullshit outside, whatever that is.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: While we're, while we're adding to the list, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: But that's it. That's it.
Em Schulz: So a year later, the city leveled the land. Umm, and just to get the whole project over with, they were literally just pulling out leftover headstones. Umm, like put... Taking out headstones that are actually still over graves of bodies.
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: So they were now creating unmarked graves and just throwing the headstones away. So they would just have like flat land to use as a park. Umm, if there were open graves, they would just put shrubs and plants in them to like cover it up.
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: And by 1907, you guys had a park. So congratulations.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: You did it. I'm so proud of you.
Em Schulz: So by 1907, Congress Park was built. Uh, when building Congress Park, uh, they, it... Everyone was pretty nervous because the city didn't actually have a lot of funding, umm, to be able to get it done. But kind of out of the woodwork, there was, uh, a widow who donated $100,000. And she said that her husband would've loved the park and wanted it to go towards a pavilion. And they then named the pavilion and that part of the park after them, which is Cheesman Park.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Ooh. You're wondering where that she showed up.
Christine Schiefer: They were like, "Cool last name. We gotta name this park after you."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, uh, in 1950, the city of Denver got the, uh, Mount Calvary property, like the... Where all the Catholic bodies are being buried. They got that land back. And so now they had an even larger chunk of land to do something with. And they turned that into the, uh, Botanic Garden.
Audience: Ohh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They know what that is.
Em Schulz: Where all the Catholic bodies are buried. So...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, charming.
Em Schulz: Charming.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Say a prayer when you get there.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So for the most part, uh, the rest of the property is now residential, but that's apparently... Uh, it's Cheesman Park, and then it's the Botanical Gardens, and then it's Congress Park. Right? Does that make sense? Okay. And then it's surrounded by residential areas, but those buildings were built on top of land that was also used to be part of the cemetery, which means all of those apartments are currently also buried on top of bodies.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Super.
Em Schulz: So do you live there?
Audience: Yes!
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh oh. [laughter] Party at your house.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, nowadays... So just like how the Boneyard reference, how it used to be a meetup for gay men.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Your clever joke. Yes, we remember.
Em Schulz: Remember how funny I was?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Keep drinking in case you forgot.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so nowadays, Cheesman Park is actually, uh, very proud to be the main LGBT gathering spot for big events such as...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, nice.
Em Schulz: The Pride Festival and the AIDS Walk.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: That's pretty baller.
Em Schulz: So good for you guys. Very happy about that.
Christine Schiefer: Very good.
Em Schulz: Umm, but bodies are still found in the park and the gardens...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, well... [chuckle]
Em Schulz: All the time.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I had you on and up, and then I got you on... It's a rollercoaster with me.
Christine Schiefer: It is.
Em Schulz: Never know what you're going to get. So, uh, body parts are still... Uh, I wouldn't say regularly found, but they are found often enough that when they are reported, people are like, "Okay."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: [chuckle] Super.
Em Schulz: Like, that checks out. I don't need to see it. I believe you.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God, okay.
Em Schulz: So, uh, the last, uh, couple of reports that I saw were in 2008 and 2010, uh, during construction work near the pavilion, six different skeletons were found, which isn't too long ago.
Christine Schiefer: That's... Wow. Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, and also there is a horror film called The Changeling, and it is about...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah, that's a good movie.
Em Schulz: Yes. It is about the activity that... So it was written by, uh, someone that actually used to live in the apartments next to the park and the shit that happened in his apartment.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: So, he loosely based on his personal experience next to Cheesman Park.
Christine Schiefer: What? Isn't that about a kid that goes missing? Okay. Whatever.
Em Schulz: I don't know. I'm, I'm telling you what Wikipedia told me. Leave me alone.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I will.
Em Schulz: So, you know, we have this rule where like we don't ask each other questions on stage.
Christine Schiefer: No. And I break it every single time.
Em Schulz: Every single time. 'Cause like, what if I fucked up and I don't know, but don't make, don't let me look dumb. But then every single time we're on stage, Christine's like, "I have a question."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And I'm like, "Ahhh!" And then I just blame Wikipedia every time.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, I'm blaming the altitude...
Em Schulz: That's fine.
Christine Schiefer: I guess, so.
Em Schulz: Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure.
Em Schulz: So...
Audience: Drink!
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there it is.
Em Schulz: So then my last fun fact, if you will.
Christine Schiefer: Fuck.
Em Schulz: Is that the city offers... I heard someone go, "Oh my God, I'm full of fun facts."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Drink.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So... [laughter] So the city offers ghost tours and one of the most infamous spots that they check out is always Cheesman Park.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, cool.
Em Schulz: The end.
Christine Schiefer: Spooky. Spooky.
Em Schulz: Now... Now that we've gone through all that, I know you guys came here for the ghost, so let's just talk about that for a little bit.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[applause]
Em Schulz: You guys are like, "I had my history class. Where's my reward?"
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: History class is a relative term, but...
Em Schulz: Look, if this was the history I was learning, I would've been an expert in history by this time in my life, I think.
Christine Schiefer: Probably, yeah, me too. [chuckle]
Em Schulz: Okay. Let's just jump right into it. So, right when bodies started being removed from the cemetery, so this goes all the way back to the 1890s, strange things have been happening on the property. Yay. So...
Christine Schiefer: Super.
Em Schulz: I'm... I try to like rank them in like least scary to most scary. So, you have something to enjoy, but I don't know if I did that well.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, you might get an occasional, "ah!," in there. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So...
Christine Schiefer: Let's hope so.
Em Schulz: Let's see. So, there are frequently, if you use equipment like electromagnetic activity, if you're trying to test for that, umm, a lot of equipment will regularly spike and not in the... Not consistently. So sometimes it'll be over in this patch. Sometimes it'll be over here. So...
Christine Schiefer: It's not electrical wiring or something.
Em Schulz: There's no power lines...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Or anything underneath the ground. So... Which is validating since it's not consistent 'cause it's so random, you don't know what's going on. Uh, many people have felt something grab their hands, arms, legs, and shoulders.
Christine Schiefer: That's least scary. Is that what you're saying? We're going...
Em Schulz: I think.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Good luck.
Em Schulz: Uh, a grave digger named Jim...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: He felt a ghost grab his shoulders, umm, and then try to push him into an open grave.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: And Jim never came back. I mean, he's alive. He just didn't come back to work.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Wait. I was like, what the hell?
Em Schulz: Never came back from hell. I don't know.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God, you really scared me.
Em Schulz: No, Jim's fine.
Christine Schiefer: Thank God.
Em Schulz: Well, he's dead now 'cause that was in the 1800s.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, R-I-P, R-I-P.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Maybe he is in hell now. Who knows? He might be because he was a grave digger. But while he was, uh, while he was hired to be a grave digger, he was also one of the looters and stealing from all those bodies.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: So now we know where he is.
Christine Schiefer: No wonder someone tried to push him into a grave.
Em Schulz: Right. Well, yeah. So, he was one of the first people to report feeling shoulders, shove him into an open grave.
Christine Schiefer: Got it. Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, there are also reports of people seeing a woman walking around, often singing to herself.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm, great.
Em Schulz: And then she vanishes.
Christine Schiefer: Nah.
Em Schulz: Awesome. Uh, a lot of people have claimed to see the outline of the original graves where they used to stand.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: Which I never even thought was...
Christine Schiefer: Like the gravestones?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh. No, no.
Em Schulz: Like there's no stone... There's no headstones now. But apparently when you're by yourself or when you're... I don't know. When a ghost is trying to scare you.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You'll see the outlines of the original headstone. I've never even heard of that one. So, I'm always excited when there's a new type of content.
Christine Schiefer: That's a new one. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh, you hear footsteps all the time, so I'm like, it's fun to hear that one. Uh, so when I say people, I... From now on, I mean both visitors of the park and neighbors in their apartments. So, uh, just for your information. So, they often feel unbelievable grief or dread when walking down by the, like when walking on the street by the park. Uh, a lot of people have reported having trouble getting up after sitting or lying down.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-oh.
Em Schulz: Umm, apparently, especially if you're in the park, if you're just like having a picnic or something, you're like on the ground, apparently getting up feels like you have like a hundred pounds holding you down.
Christine Schiefer: What the hell?
Em Schulz: Umm, so, you have to fight your way up to stand. Uh, a lot of people have seen children playing in the park and then they'll blink or turn around and nobody's there. Uh a lot of people have seen small shadow figures running around in the park in the middle of the night.
Christine Schiefer: Eh. Eh, pass. I don't love that.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'll take a different route.
Christine Schiefer: I'd rather not be able to get up from my picnic blanket. [laughter] It sucks.
Em Schulz: But imagine if you couldn't get up and you see the shadows running around you.
Christine Schiefer: Well, all right.
Em Schulz: Game changer. So, some people have seen kids playing there at night and try to approach them to be like, "Where are your parents?" And, uh, and then the kids just look at you and just fade away.
Christine Schiefer: They're like, "You ruined our game."
Em Schulz: Yeah. [chuckle] They've also heard children laughing, yelling, and running. Umm, people have felt getting knocked into when they're in the park, as if a little kid bumps into them.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: People have been grabbed, like I said, but they've also seen apparitions. This one was interesting because, uh, you can... People will see apparitions of what look like, I don't know, normal people walking around. Umm, but half the time people will see apparitions of people that look very dead.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Apparently, you see like...
Christine Schiefer: Like zombies?
Em Schulz: I guess.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Like, you see like a, like a, like someone who looks like they've been buried in the ground for a hundred years, I guess.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, that's good.
Em Schulz: Umm, I tried to look more into that to get like a description, but people just kept saying, "I thought I saw a corpse standing up," and then they blink and it's not there anymore.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, good.
Em Schulz: So, enjoy your dreams tonight. Umm...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Thanks.
Em Schulz: Apparently, uh, in the playground, the swings will also swing on their own. That could be the wind, but this is a paranormal show, so that was a fucking ghost.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Umm, that's my job to say. It was a heavy...
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: It was a bomb cyclone, whatever that...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Guys, if you go to that park right now, I bet those swings are moving.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's a lot of ghosts active tonight.
Em Schulz: Uh, people feel icy cold pressure and they say that when you try to walk away from it, it will surround you.
Christine Schiefer: That sounds just like this fucking bomb cyclone.
Em Schulz: That's called Denver.
Christine Schiefer: Wait a second, Em, hold on.
Em Schulz: It's the ghost of Denver.
Christine Schiefer: It's all making sense.
Em Schulz: Uh, and then classic, you feel like you're being watched and followed when you're alone.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that I can't explain. Sorry.
Em Schulz: There has also been a lot of paranormal activity reported, uh, both day and night, which is kind of cool. 'Cause usually you just expect it to happen at night, but the exact same amount of activity happens 24 hours a day.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, dear.
Em Schulz: So, you're never safe. Umm...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: There are several reports of misty and shadowy figures climbing and sitting in the trees. Firm pass.
Christine Schiefer: What the hell?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, also near the open graves with the shrubs that they tried to cover it up with. You can hear moaning, whispering, crying, and snickering. I don't like that.
Christine Schiefer: Nah. I don't know which one's worse. Honestly.
Em Schulz: I think the snickering.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I don't get to say that word a lot. So it seems newer, which means it's scarier.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, many people hear laughter or they think someone is running by them and nobody's there. Oh, that's, uh, the same bullet I already read. Whoops.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I tried rewording it and using it earlier and apparently I forgot to erase that.
Christine Schiefer: Eva, just cut that part out. It's fine.
Em Schulz: Eva, just erase that.
Audience: Drink!
Em Schulz: So those living in the residential homes nearby say that the apartments have their own poltergeist activity.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, super.
Em Schulz: Uh, people have reported lights going on and off by themselves. They've seen doors, windows, and cabinets all fly open and closed all on their own. Umm, they have seen someone in the reflections of their bathroom mirrors.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Mm-mm.
Em Schulz: Uh, and also, uh, they... When they're looking out their windows on, uh, upper floors, they will see floating heads staring at them.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Spirits will walk up and down the staircase, they'll walk through your walls and doors. They will walk up and stand right in front of you, like just waiting for you to react apparently.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-mm.
Em Schulz: Umm, they have also... People have also seen shadow figures, uh, standing at the edge of their bed and they have been woke... Huh?
Christine Schiefer: That scared me more than that did.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And, uh, so standing at the foot of your bed, some people have woken up to feeling them sitting on your bed.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, also, I... If... I don't remember what episode this was, but we talked about how much we love/hate the show's Scariest Places on Earth.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yes.
Em Schulz: Because that like creepy little alien voice.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: For those who don't know what I'm talking about, there's a show that like is not around anymore, but, uh, the narrator I think is an alien.
Christine Schiefer: Well, no, she's from... She's the lady from... Everyone emailed us. She's a famous person. You know who... You know who I'm talking about, right?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: She... Well, she does a really good impression...
Christine Schiefer: Anyway.
Em Schulz: Of an alien. And it's all like, it's weird and creepy and like 5-year-old me refused to watch the show.
Christine Schiefer: No, it's very scary.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: It's like a demonic high pitched voice.
Em Schulz: It's really...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's really uncomfortable.
Christine Schiefer: It's very scary.
Em Schulz: No matter what age you are, just go YouTube an episode of that and you won't feel good.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. So they talked, they had a whole, uh, segment on this place and they had two volunteers stay in a tent on top of an unmarked grave, and they tested out... So the two people staying in the tent, they tested out a compass and immediately it started going crazy, uh, in every direction. And then their lantern went out.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Umm, and then multiple times on camera, uh, something starts banging on the outside of their tent.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-uh.
Em Schulz: Someone is definitely running around the tent. The tent is shaking and you can see shadows of people running around. And I thought like, okay, well that's like some sad intern that like had to just like [laughter] bang on the tent.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I just thought of like...
Christine Schiefer: Like a PA like...
Em Schulz: Like your, your days on Disney when you had to like go run around on... At tents, [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Uh...
Christine Schiefer: Sad.
Em Schulz: So I thought that was the case. But then the next thing that they show you is the camera pointing at the tent outside.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And nobody's running around.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Umm, nobody is banging on anything and you can hear the same sounds of them screaming, like overlapped on both cameras. So, I mean, they edited it well if it's fake, but it scared me.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, then the girls are petrified. They're like screaming. They clearly want to get outta there. And also by the way, the person who's walking them through it over the walkie-talkie is a grade A dick.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Because they're screaming and you can tell they're kind of crying and they're trying to keep their cool. And the, the person on the walkie-talkie is like, "There's no reason to react this way." It's like, what?
Christine Schiefer: You get in this motherfucking tent, sir.
Em Schulz: Climb on in! Come on.
Christine Schiefer: I cannot with that. I mean, we... In the entertainment industry...
Em Schulz: Uh-huh.
Christine Schiefer: We know anyone with a fucking walkie-talkie, man.
Em Schulz: Right. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's just like, that's how it goes.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: If there's a walkie-talkie on them, we don't like them.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: That's what it is. Uh, then, uh, the girls were like, "Okay, let's like get our shit together and like, we're just gonna try to go to sleep." And as one of them is trying to get into her sleeping bag, something grabs her back.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-uh.
Em Schulz: And she looks like she kind of got pushed, umm, in a weird way. Umm, she starts screaming and she's like, "Something definitely grabbed my back. Fuck this. And then they leave." Umm...
Christine Schiefer: And Kevin was like, "Roger, hello?"
Em Schulz: Yeah, exactly. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Ten-two.
Em Schulz: Ten-two. Do you guys know what that means? No?
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: It means poop, by the way.
Christine Schiefer: I thought that was our fun inside joke and you just ruined it.
Em Schulz: For the people who got dragged here, uh, if you're working...
Christine Schiefer: There's a lot of you I'm sure. Yeah.
Em Schulz: If you're working on set and someone into the walkie-talkie for like, "Oh, uh, where's Christine?" And then Christine will just go, "Ten-two." It means like...
Christine Schiefer: I'm on the toilet...
Em Schulz: I'm busy.
Christine Schiefer: Is what it means. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So if you've ever heard that in a movie, now you know what's going on. Okay. [laughter] I don't know why you would hear that, but... [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You never know.
Em Schulz: Never know. Good bar trivia, I suppose.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: So, uh, then the... Okay, so the girls felt something grabbed their back and they left. And uh, then they kind of got interviewed for a second after the fact. But you could tell they were really jarred, so they left. And that was pretty much the end of the show. But I do have one story that really, uh, surprised me. It's... I don't, I, it... I feel like it can't be real, but it didn't say it wasn't, so. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That sounds like the making of our entire podcast.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Let's go.
Em Schulz: My whole segment should just be called allegedly 'cause I never know.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Uh, so one guy wrote a story about him and his friend walking through the park at night. Umm, and they heard a rattling chain and it wouldn't leave them alone. They kept turning around, no one was there. Uh, and then finally they heard the rattling chain rattle a little too closely to them. And they turned around and there were two people behind them.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: One was a kid, uh, on a bike. And on the bike there was, uh, a chain that was dangling, uh, from... It was like dangling from the bike. So that was the sound they were hearing. Umm, the kid on the bike was riding in circles around a, uh, thin pale man in a shredded bloody hospital gown.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, oh, what? No.
Em Schulz: And then I guess the kid on the bike stops riding the bike 'cause he realizes how stupid this probably looks [laughter], and then walks with the guy in the gown to get closer to these two people, uh, that wrote the story.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Uh, and they can tell that the man's jaw is broken. Neither of them seem to really be like... They, they don't seem to be reacting to the fact that he looks this way or they don't... They're acting totally normal. [laughter] And then, uh, the guy says... Asks for a cigarette.
Christine Schiefer: Wait, which guy?
Em Schulz: The guy with the broken jaw asks for a cigarette.
Christine Schiefer: I guess it wouldn't be the guy who sees a dead person and...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. You're right. That is a stupid question. Okay, got it, got it, got it. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Broken jaw guy asked for a cigarette.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And then he said, uh, "Did you see them?" Uh, and the two guys were like, "No. Who are you talking about?" And, uh, the guy in the gown says, "The ones who did this to me, they stabbed me 15 times."
Christine Schiefer: Oh, what the fuck?
Em Schulz: Then he lifts his gown sleeves and you can see several deep wounds into his arms.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: And then the two guys are like, "Shouldn't you be in the hospital?"
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then the guy with the broken jaw in the gown said, "Watch out for them."
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: And then him and the kid backed off and faded away.
Christine Schiefer: What the hell?
Em Schulz: I don't know what the kid with the bike was doing.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. What...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He needs to go home.
Em Schulz: But somehow he is an important part to that.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Anyway, if you see, uh, a guy in a bloody hospital gown, he might ask for a cigarette. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And also call the police. Okay. Just say... That's my duty to say that part.
Em Schulz: Uh. Anyway, all of that is the story of Cheesman Park.
Christine Schiefer: Yay.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Woo. That was wild. That was spooky. Good one.
Em Schulz: Thank you. Good game. Good game.
Christine Schiefer: Hello, everybody.
Em Schulz: And now it's Christine's turn.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: It's me. Hi. Let me make sure I have my notes.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Okay.
Em Schulz: There was one time I was on stage and I opened up my notes.
Christine Schiefer: Our first show ever.
Em Schulz: Uh, I realized...
Christine Schiefer: Our third show.
Em Schulz: I had, uh, the wrong notes for like a totally different show.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: And then I had to... Luckily, I, I just printed the wrong ones, but then I had to make Eva like run up here and give me the... It was very awkward. And I just had to sit here. Like...
Christine Schiefer: You don't wanna see us like forcefully banter when there's like nothing to banter.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: It's very uncomfortable.
Em Schulz: Especially when we've already pulled like the weather card with you guys.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter] There's not much else to pander.
Em Schulz: But anyway, I felt bad 'cause we just sat here and like poor Eva had to like go get the notes, and it took forever. Anyway.
Christine Schiefer: Well, it looks like I have the right ones. So you're in luck. Umm, okay guys, I'm very excited to tell this story. Uh, I don't know if you know it. I hope so. If not, maybe pretend you do so that I don't get super nervous. Okay. This is the story of the Spider Man of Denver.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, that sounds way cool.
Christine Schiefer: Well, I think four people really knew about it. [laughter] And some were like, "I guess she said I should clap." Okay.
Em Schulz: You said Spider-Man. I am ready.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I intentionally said Spider Man 'cause it's not like Spider-Man.
Em Schulz: It's Spider-Man.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Uh, [laughter] so I wanna give a little credit to a new podcast I discovered called Dark Histories Podcast, uh, as well as the Colorado Prison Museum, and of course my favorite murderpedia.org. Umm, that's where I got most of this information. So, alright, let's go back to 1941.
Em Schulz: My other favorite year.
Christine Schiefer: Yep.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: We remember it well. Uh, so this takes place at 3335 West Moncrieff Place, which is in North Denver. 22 minutes north of here. I checked. Uh, it's a super cute like brick family home. And in the '40s, it was owned by a man named Philip Peters and his wife Helen. Uh, they had lived there together for 40 years and raised a son together.
Em Schulz: Aw.
Christine Schiefer: They were a super happy couple in their 70s, and they were like super involved in their community. Uh, Philip played the mandolin.
Em Schulz: Aw.
Christine Schiefer: I know.
Em Schulz: I bet he did a good job.
Christine Schiefer: He did. [laughter] And he was a member of a local Denver musicians club for guitar and mandolin enthusiasts.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So, they were just like a super cute, you know, elderly couple.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: So in September of 1941, Helen Peters had unfortunately fallen and broken her hip. So she was staying in the hospital to recover for a few weeks. Uh, and this meant that Philip, her husband, would be at home by himself. He was 71 at this point. And he visited the hospital every day to see his wife Helen, while she recovered.
Em Schulz: I love that.
Christine Schiefer: I know, he's great. I like to think he played the mandolin for her, but I'm making that up. Umm, okay. So that meant that... Uh, so he... Obviously his wife's, wife wasn't around, so a lot of the younger neighbors would kind of step in and help him around the house and would invite him over for meals, uh, so that he wasn't alone. Umm, on Friday, October 17th... Okay. Well, you know, things just get really sad here. So I'm sorry but...
Em Schulz: I hope you had fun laughing.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I gave you two solid bullets of easy going. Things are about to go downhill. So October 17th, uh, Philip was due for dinner at the neighbor's, and their names were Mr. And Mrs. Ross. Uh, but he didn't show up. And Mrs. Ross thought that was odd 'cause he was never late. Umm, so she got a little worried. She went to check if Philip was okay. Strangely, all the lights at the house were off and nobody was answering the front door.
Em Schulz: Huh.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Uh, Mrs. Ross saw her neighbor Doris passing by and asked if Doris would help hoist her over the fence.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I like, I like that she's nosey. She's like, "I'm gonna figure this out." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And, you know, Doris is obviously wandering around, just trying to...
Em Schulz: I've, I've never met a Doris who wasn't willing to help.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for sure.
Em Schulz: It's like, "I got you."
Christine Schiefer: She's like, "I'll be complicit in this act, whatever, whatever it may be." [laughter] So Mrs. Ross had a key to Philip's house, like to come and help him out and check on him and stuff. So she gets hoisted by Doris right over that fence.
Em Schulz: That's right.
Christine Schiefer: Uh-huh. Umm, and she's able to unlock the back door. She enters the house and switches on the kitchen light only to see the room covered in blood.
Audience: Aww.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Umm, the blood is spattered up the walls, it trails through the doorway into the front rooms of the house. Uh, Mrs. Ross followed the trail of blood, which, uh... Good for you, but... Ooh. [laughter] She followed the trail of blood. She found the body of Philip Peters lying face down in the front bedroom, obviously called police immediately. And when they arrived, they determined that Philip had been struck 37 times with a blunt object.
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, many of the wounds were lacerations to his front... Forearm, suggesting he had defended himself. And laying next to him was his walking stick, which had broken in half, suggesting he had used it as like a defense weapon.
Em Schulz: Aww.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, Sorry. It's not good. Whoops. Umm, right. So in the kitchen, uh, investigators found fragments of the butt of a revolver on the floor, as well as a cast iron stove poker that appeared to be out of place.
Em Schulz: Oh, no.
Christine Schiefer: And so they were like, "These are probably the murder weapons," sent them back for fingerprint checks. You know those fingerprint checks? [laughter] Right, the lab. They're, they're at the lab. Uh, so initially, detectives were like, "Oh, this is probably a robbery. Uh, someone came in and didn't realize he was home and attacked him." Umm, but then they realized there was one problem, which is that every single door and window in the house was still locked. And they were like, "Hmm. That's odd." Then they looked around the house and found more than $400 kinda like laying around, and they were like, "Okay, maybe it wasn't a robbery 'cause the person would have taken that." So very mysterious. Philip also didn't have any known enemies, so there was nobody that they could kinda point to as breaking in and trying to attack...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Him for revenge or anything like that. Uh, so police were stumped. Uh, the murder continued to go unsolved for months, and police were still baffled as to how the intruder would have gotten in or out of the house. Umm, the case basically stalled and police were stuck. And meanwhile, Phillip's wife Helen had recovered from her injury and she was coming home from the hospital, and she had to go home to the empty house.
Em Schulz: Oh, no.
Christine Schiefer: But because she was alone, she hired two nurses to help her, one during the day and one during the night. Umm, so everyone... So she settled into that lifestyle, she had two nurses. Umm, everyone... Everything seemed to be okay. Everyone seemed to be moving on, and then, uh, police got a very interesting phone call.
Em Schulz: Okay. From Spider-Man?
Christine Schiefer: From Spider-Man.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I would like that phone call.
Christine Schiefer: This is, this is my fanfic actually, my Spiderman fanfiction. [laughter] I'm testing it out. No, no, no.
Em Schulz: It's a... Spider-Man and his sidekick, Doris.
Christine Schiefer: [laughter] What a story. Eva, write that down, 'cause that would be good.
Audience: Drink.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, so police received a strange call. One of Helen's nurses, Edith Clark, told police she believed the house was haunted.
Em Schulz: Well, she's right.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: She was hearing noises in the walls, footsteps in empty rooms, items would go missing throughout the house, newspapers would vanish, and trays of food left out for Helen would be moved and messed with, despite Helen swearing she hadn't touched the food. Helen herself did not hear any of this activity when police asked. But then they realized she was hard of hearing, so they were like, "Okay." So they asked the other nurse. Umm, and she said, "Oh yeah, I hear things all the time."
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And so they asked Hattie, who's the night nurse, and Hattie said, "Yeah, I hear things all the time. But just ignore them." And they were like, "Well, what do you hear?" And she said, "Okay. I ignored most things. It was footsteps and banging in the walls, etcetera."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm serious.
Em Schulz: Not things I'd ignore!
Christine Schiefer: She obviously wasn't a listener of our show.
Em Schulz: Right. Right.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, he said, uh, you know, I kind of ignored things until one day, uh, a neighbor stopped by. And this neighbor... So it was a next door neighbor. And they had had a doorbell installed from Helen's bedroom to their house so that if she were in distress or...
Em Schulz: Oh wow.
Christine Schiefer: I know. And so she would ring it, and it... Like it... She rarely, if ever, rang the bell. But if she did, it would go to the neighbor's house, and they would come over and either call the police or whatever it may be that was going on. So, uh, one day, this neighbor rushes over, like all frantic, and, uh, says, "Is everything okay? Is everything okay?" And Helen was home alone at this point. And Helen's downstairs sitting in her chair, and is like, "I don't, don't know what you're talking about. I didn't ring the bell." And everyone thought that was kinda odd because none of the nurses were home and Helen was downstairs. And there was no way that she would have been able to get up the stairs and back in the time...
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: That of the neighbor ran over. So that's when Hattie was kind of like, "Yeah, maybe we should look into what this might be." So thanks for coming around Hattie. Umm. It's about time.
Em Schulz: You're on board.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Okay. Please hold. [laughter] Cool. We're good. So things kind of just kept escalating like this until one night when Nurse Edith heard a soft tapping sound but told herself it was just the woodpeckers.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So remember that, I guess, if you're scared.
Em Schulz: Right.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: When the swings are going crazy and she's in the park...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Just the woodpeckers.
Christine Schiefer: It's just the bomb cyclone knocking at the door.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, she said... Okay. So she hears the soft tapping. She's like, "I thought it was a woodpecker." She walked into the kitchen. And she saw the door to the stairway slowly open.
Em Schulz: [gasp] Mm-mm.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-mm. She said a foot came out and then a thin white hand. She screamed, obviously.
Em Schulz: Duh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And then the figure disappeared behind the door. So she was like, "Enough," and called police. Uh, they came right away, did a full search of the property, found nothing. And just to let you know, the stairs were going upstairs. So they weren't like stairs to the basement or outside or anything. They were stairs to the upstairs. So they cleared the whole house, found nothing. And they told Edith this. And she was like... Well, I wrote this. This is probably not what she said. But I wrote, "IDC, I quit."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Essentially, she was...
Em Schulz: You're probably, you're probably paraphrasing well, though.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'd like to think so. In any case, she was like, "I don't care. I'm leaving. And I don't wanna do this job anymore." And then they asked Hattie how she felt. And she's like, "If she's quitting, I'm quitting." And...
Em Schulz: Good job, good job.
Christine Schiefer: They asked her the... She told a reporter later, "I wasn't gonna stay in no haunted house." And I was like, finally!
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So Philip and Helen had an adult son named Philip Jr. Umm, and he lived in Grand Junction, Colorado.
Audience: Woo!
Christine Schiefer: Okay, six people know about it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Uh, he heard about all the things that were going on. And he came back to see his mom. And he was like, "Please, like you shouldn't live here anymore. Come live with me and my wife back in Grand Junction." Umm, and she resisted at first, because this was her home. And she didn't wanna leave. But, uh, she knew that since both of her nurses quit, uh, she was gonna have a hard time living by herself.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So she went reluctantly with her son and moved in with him and his wife. So once again, so now the house is empty. Everyone's kind of like, "Okay, the case is cold. Things are moving on." And then police started to get some more strange phone calls. This time, they were from the neighbors. And the neighbors said they saw shadowy apparitions in the windows of the empty house.
Em Schulz: Good night.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They insisted that throughout the week, the blinds would change positions.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm...
Em Schulz: I bet they did. I bet it was a ghost, too.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: They did. And so people were calling so often. And because police didn't have any other leads, they would drive out and check every single time somebody called. So they searched the house thoroughly every single time. Each time, they found nothing but empty rooms, locked doors, locked windows. Still could not figure this out. So obviously, police were frustrated. So for five days straight, they had two policemen stationed out on the front porch to keep watch for five days, doing nothing else. And they just sat there, probably bored out of their minds, and saw nothing and heard nothing.
Em Schulz: And listened to our podcast as a company and...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And wished that in the 1940s, they had podcasts.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, right. So they just sat there for five days. Nothing happened. And they were like, "Well, if we're not hearing anything for five days, you know, people are overreacting or seeing things." So of course, the media caught wind of this. And pretty quickly, the papers began calling Philips' murder the Ghost Slayings. And the house developed the nickname the Ghost House of Denver. So on July 30th, 1947, two detectives were patrolling the neighborhood. And so it became, for whatever reason, standard procedure to just like, if they were in the neighborhood, they would go check the house. They were like, "One of these days, we'll find something."
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So these two guys were like, "All right, we gotta walk through the house." So they're walking through the house, umm, did a sweep. And during their routine search, they both heard a faint noise coming from upstairs.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Hmm. They ran upstairs through the bedroom and into a small back storage room where the noise was coming from. And there they were met by the sight of two legs.
Em Schulz: I don't like these legs, [laughter] 'cause first, there's door opening and someone just like, like dips the toe...
Christine Schiefer: Right, right, right.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Dips the toe.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah.
Em Schulz: And now, all of a sudden, there's just like two other little g... [laughter] We haven't seen above the knee, and I'm nervous.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Well, you've come to the right place, because...
Em Schulz: The attic.
Christine Schiefer: The legs were scrambling up into a small false panel in the back of a closet.
Audience: Eugh!
Christine Schiefer: So they grabbed the legs...
Audience: Ooh!
Christine Schiefer: And pulled.
Em Schulz: Ugh!
Christine Schiefer: And they pulled out a pale, emaciated man. They later described him as, "Beetle-browed, wide-eyed, and pale as a ghost. He hated sunlight and was the color of a mushroom."
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Sounds like a fun guy.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: I quit.
Em Schulz: IDC, I quit.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Em literally... Em literally I had to explain that to me. I was like, "Why is everyone clapping?"
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I went, "fungi, fungi."
Christine Schiefer: God, damn it. I'm such an idiot. Okay. [laughter]
Em Schulz: I know.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. They also said he looked like a spider that scurries for darkness when you pick up a stone.
Em Schulz: Well, I kind of wondered that, because if they're grabbing his legs, I imagine, like, his legs flailed.
Christine Schiefer: He's like scurrying up. Yeah. He was literally scurrying up a little panel. Okay. So on July 30th, 1947, two detectives were patrolling... Oh, I said that. Stop. Delete that. Put that out of your brain. I was gonna tell you all over again, just so I could hear Em's hilarious joke. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'll remind you of it, like, four times tonight. Don't worry.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I know. I'm not gonna hear the end of it. So, uh, his clothing had rotted and was held together by string and rope. And despite being six feet tall, he weighed only 75 pounds.
Em Schulz: Oh, my. Oh, my.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it was bad. Umm, so they took him down to the station, where he told them his name was Matthew Cornish, and he worked in advertising.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Huh.
Christine Schiefer: But then, they fed him a hamburger, an apple pie, and a coffee. And he was like, "Yeah, I was lying." And they're like, "Yeah, we know."
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Aye-yai-yai. So... [laughter] Oh, my god. Okay. So they fed him a hamburger, an apple pie, and a coffee. Then he gave in and told them his real story. So he said his name was Theodore Edward Coneys. He had killed Philip Peters.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Theodore Edward Coneys. Uh, so he'd been born in 1882 in Illinois. And he had suffered from our favorite consumption...
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Tuberculosis...
Em Schulz: Love it.
Christine Schiefer: As a child. And was told...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Please see a doctor. [laughter] Oh, no. Oh, no. Don't love that. Okay. So he had suffered from tuberculosis as a child. He was told he wouldn't live to see his 18th birthday. So he just dropped out of high school. And his mom kind of, uh, sheltered him. He had always wanted to play baseball as a kid. But his mother insisted that he was too frail. So she pushed him into studying music instead. And as a result, he came... Became pretty good at the mandolin.
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Does anyone remember that?
Em Schulz: Oh, I remember.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Uh, so Theodore did, indeed, obviously survive into his adult years. But he found himself homeless off and on through his adult life. Umm, at one point, he moved to Denver and joined the local mandolin club. And this is where he met Helen and Philip. So Helen and Philip noticed that Theodore was down on his luck, that he didn't have much money. And so they often invited him over for dinner and for food. And they gave him, uh, money to kind of make his way.
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, but then he left Denver at one point. And he decided he was gonna pursue a number of business ventures, maybe advertising. I don't know. I don't know how, how true that part was. But all of them failed. Umm, he tried to kinda con his way. And it just didn't work. So unfortunately, after 30 years of sort of aimless wandering throughout the US, he found himself back in Denver, broke and homeless. And so at this point... I have to change the page. [laughter] Shit, that was so smooth, I thought. And then it, and then it wasn't. So at this point, it had been 30 years since he had been in Denver and since he had last seen Helen and Philip. So he remembered how kind they had been to him, how hospitable. And he was like, "You know what, I'm gonna stop by their house, ask if I can have some hot food and maybe some money." Umm, so he goes to their house. Uh, he approaches just in time to see Philip leaving with a neighbor to go visit his wife Helen in the hospital, like he did every day.
Em Schulz: I see.
Christine Schiefer: So rather than wait for Philip to return, uh, Theodore is like, "Well, let's just see if the door is open." And it was. So he climb... I don't know if Doris pushed him in there or what. But he somehow got over that fence. [laughter] I don't know how. But he hoisted himself over that fence. And he found the back door unlocked. Umm, so he helped himself to Helen and Philip's food, and then, uh, just basically meandered through the entire house, looking through drawers and cabinets. And then upstairs in a storage room, he found a small, uh, plywood panel. It was 8 inches by 15 inches. Uh, and it was in the top of a closet. And it functioned as a trap door to a tiny coffin-shaped attic.
Em Schulz: Ah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. The attic was 3 feet high, uh, 7 feet long, and 4 feet wide.
Em Schulz: Woo.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's a tiny, tiny space.
Christine Schiefer: Tiny little space. And it was like vaulted. So at the highest point, it was, uh, 3 feet.
Em Schulz: Oh my gosh. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: And then the rest shrunk down. Right. Umm, okay, so buh, buh, buh, buh. He would... He was like, "You know what? I know Philip's gonna come home soon, but I'm just gonna stay here." So he hid out in the attic. And...
Em Schulz: This place looks nice.
Christine Schiefer: This place looks nice.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: For several weeks, he lived in this crawl space, sneaking out whenever Philip would go visit Helen in the hospital. And he'd also sneak out at night. Uh, he would wait till he heard Phillip snoring. And then he would come out of the little hidey hole, go to the kitchen, and sneak just enough food out of the freezer that it wouldn't be noticeable. Uh, he found an old crystal set in a closet and a pair of headphones. So he was able to create his own radio to listen to. Uh, he slept on an ironing board. I don't know where he got that, but... Uh, he even shaved with Philip's razor when he wasn't home.
Audience: Oh!
Em Schulz: Hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, pretty nasty. Uh, then Theodore said... He got bored.
Em Schulz: Hah. Ah, man.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, shucks. [laughter] So he said he developed a super fun game. And that was, whenever Philip was walking around the house, he would follow him and shadow his movements. And if Philip sensed someone was behind him, he would jump into... Around a corner into a closet and hide. Isn't that the creepiest thing you've literally ever heard?
Em Schulz: That's such an adrenaline-inducing...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's terrible.
Em Schulz: That's just anxiety-ridden. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: He said it was thrilling. So he said, like if he was making tea or, you know, cleaning the house or whatever, he would like follow him and like shadow all his movements.
Em Schulz: Ugh.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. So, so, so, so, so creepy. Uh, so he said that was how he entertained himself. So that's good. [laughter] Huh. Anyway, things just got worse from here, obviously. On Friday October 17th, thinking that Philip had left to visit Helen in the hospital, Theodore snuck out around 4:00 PM, turns out Philip was just taking a nap...
Em Schulz: Uh-oh.
Christine Schiefer: And he heard someone rooting around in his kitchen, so Philip went downstairs and both of them were shocked to see the other one standing in front of them. Uh, and Theodore, like without even thinking, grabbed an old revolver that was hanging on the wall and hit Philip over the head with it. So Philip fell, but he managed to crawl toward the phone in the dining room and he said he was gonna call the police, so Theodore followed him, hitting him again and again until he stopped moving. And after that, he went back to the freezer and grabbed some food and went back to his little cubbyhole.
Em Schulz: Oh my. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know what... He literally just stayed there. He just went back upstairs.
Em Schulz: He's like, "Well, that was a wild day." [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. He was like, "I was surprised to see the police there the next morning. I was like, 'What? Why?'" Anyway. So he went back to his little hidey-hole. Umm, he was able to listen to the news about the investigation through his makeshift radio, so that's how he kinda kept track of what was going on. Umm, as time went on, he continued living in the crawl space. He would come out occasionally for food or the newspaper, unknowingly becoming the ghost of the Denver Ghost Slayings. So that's how people saw him kind... Or that's how the nurses would hear his footsteps and...
Em Schulz: Gotcha.
Christine Schiefer: Noises in the walls. Sorry, it's not a ghost.
Em Schulz: Hmm. Okay.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: He admitted that sometimes he stood in Helen's bedroom and watched her sleep.
Audience: Ohh!
Em Schulz: Ugh. Nope. Nope, nope, nope.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh. Okay. Ugh. Okay. Uh, Theodore managed to live in the attic undiscovered for almost 10 months before police finally caught him. Uh, he even explained that when police initially searched the house like the day of Philips murder, uh, they had come across the trapdoor and had tried to push it open, but he said he held on it with all his might. And they just kind of... They said, "Oh, it's too small. Like I'm sure nobody's up there." And so they just tried pushing it open, two people couldn't open it, and they moved on. So the papers described Theodore as quote, "living like a spider", which is, uh, how he got his new moniker, the Spider Man of Denver. Umm, in his official statement, he explained, quote, "It's been a nightmare." "Nearly... "
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I can't imagine.
Christine Schiefer: I can't. "Nearly 10 months of hellish, terrible nightmare. And now that it's all coming onto the open, I feel relief. You can't live like a creature damned without thinking thoughts that burn deep in your soul." I'm like, Nobody put you there. Leave. Nobody made you go there. The house is empty. Anyway...
Em Schulz: You can leave anytime.
Christine Schiefer: You can leave. He said, "You see, I had never committed a crime before, not even a petty one. Yes, justice will come to me as it should..." So for whatever reason, despite that confession, Theodore pled not guilty to first-degree murder. [laughter] Can't explain it. Uh, [chuckle] the trial began at the end of October 1942. It lasted for six days, after which the jury declared Theodore Coneys guilty of first-degree murder. He was sentenced to life in prison with physical labor at the Colorado State Penitentiary. And rather than dismay, Theodore expressed relief at having a better home than he'd had in years. And that is the story of the Spider Man of Denver. [laughter]
[applause]
Em Schulz: I like that.
Christine Schiefer: Spooky-ooky. I thought you might like the noises in the walls and the blinds and...
Em Schulz: Well, I expected a ghost and Spider-Man, and neither of them happened, but I still enjoyed it.
Christine Schiefer: You didn't like my fanfic?
Em Schulz: I actually... That was probably one of my favorite stories you've done. I liked that a lot.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. Well...
Em Schulz: That's a good one.
Christine Schiefer: Thanks.
Em Schulz: Uh, thank you guys for having us.
Christine Schiefer: Thanks, guys.
[applause]
Christine Schiefer: Woo! What a time. What a city.
[applause]
[music]