E403 Senior Citizen Energy and a Love Rhombus

TOPICS: THE CELL BLOCK NIGHTCLUB, THE TRICK-OR-TREAT MURDER OF PETER FABIANO

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A Crime Traveler and a Lady in White walk into the Gallows… It’s Episode 403 and we’re celebrating Halloween in style. This week Em takes us to Pennsylvania for the haunted Cell Block Nightclub. A former prison, current home to four themed bars under one roof. Then Christine postpones her Part 2 to bring us the case of the Trick-Or-Treat Murder of Peter Fabiano, a love story gone wrong. And remember, if a stranger comes knocking on your door after 10 PM, don’t answer it! …and that’s why we drink!

Photos:
The Cell Block Night Club
Betty and Peter Fabiano
Newspaper clipping of Goldyne Pizer (left) and Joan Rabel (right)

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Transcript

[intro music]

Em: Welcome to And That’s Why We Drink where Christine is hidden, and I have to assume there’s a reason. 

[only Em is on camera. Christine’s camera is off, showing only a black screen with a small photo of her instead] 

Christine: Well, it’s our Halloween episode. I thought we were doing costumes, so I prepared, um. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Did you forget? 

Em: I did not forget. I just– I– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: I assumed– Okay, so my costume is literally– 

Christine: Y-You scared me with that “Oh my god.” I thought maybe I was on the wrong day or something. 

Em: No, my costume is right here. I’m surprising you on stage at our shows. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Well, I’m also surprising you on stage with a different costume. 

Em: Should I, should I give you a– Should I give everyone a little taste actually? Let me just– Should I just open it and do a reveal for everyone all at once? 

Christine: Of, of, of cou– Sure. Yeah. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I’ll just stay in the dark here. 

Em: Okay, perfect. [rustling as Em opens the bag for their costume] Ah! Okay. I haven’t tried on the, the, the piece de resistance, if you will. Obviously, ’cause it’s in a bag next to me. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: But this is one part of it, and let me see if you can guess who I am, uh, you and all of YouTube. Let’s see. Hang on. 

Christine: Wait– Okay, but is this not gonna ruin the surprise? 

Em: I don’t think so. ’Cause our shows happen before the– Like this episode will come out after our shows. 

Christine: Oh, I know, but I– For me, though. I didn’t know if you wanted it to be a surprise for me. 

Em: Um, I was going to, but now that I realize that you’re showing me a costume today, I wanna play. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: I wanna be a part of it. 

Christine: But just to, but just to be clear, I’m showing you a different one ’cause I didn’t wanna ruin the actual live. I– 

Em: Gotcha. I was– 

Christine: I did mention that already twice now. But yes, I am bringing a different costume to the show. 

Em: I’m only– I only have this one. But it’s worth it, hang on. Are you ready? 

Christine: I’m ready for you to steal my thunder. Go ahead. 

Em: And– Guess who, guess who I am. Hang on. [Em leans away offscreen] Hang on. [grunts] [Em reappears, wearing a long white wig with bangs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Hang on. [adjusting the wig] 

Christine: Father Time? What’s happening? 

Em: I– Hang on. 

Christine: Cher? [laughs] 

Em: I’m also wearing makeup and a dress. [finishes adjusting the wig and puts headphones back on] 

Christine: Oh, you didn’t even hear all my guesses. [laughs] 

Em: No, who’d you guess? 

Christine: Father Time and Cher. 

Em: [laughs] I’m going to be on stage– 

Christine: [laughs] La– La Llorona? 

Em: I’m going to be the Woman in White, the Lady in White. 

Christine: [gasps] Excellent work. 

Em: And I do have a dress. And I do have makeup. And– 

Christine: Wait, you’re gonna wear a dress? 

Em: I’ll be i– [spooky voice] That’s the scariest part of it all! Mwah-ha-ha-ha! 

Christine: Are you sure? [laughs] Okay, if you want to. 

Em: It’s– What? It’s Halloween. Don’t shame me for wanting to wear a dress and express myself. 

Christine: You realize I’m not shaming you, right? Uh– 

Em: I– [adjusting wig bangs that hang into their eyes] Obviously, I have to cut these bangs. 

Christine: Well, yeah. We need to do something about the fringe. Yeah. 

Em: Anyway, welcome to my– what was gonna be my Halloween costume later. Um, I’m very excited to s– I have no idea what you’re going to be on stage or right now. ’Cause I– 

Christine: Okay, well now I feel like my thunder has been stolen ’cause mine’s not very exciting. I don’t have a wig. I just wanted to do a fun little thing, and then Em decided to take over the show. 

Em: I’m sorry. I– I got too eager. I got too eager when I– 

Christine: Yeah, we heard. Okay. Fine. I guess I’ll reveal myself now. [laughs] Um. 

[Christine turns her camera on. She is wearing a black bucket hat, tan oval sunglasses, a light khaki green short sleeve button-down shirt with a black tank top underneath, and a pearl necklace and is holding flashlight] 

Em: Oh, no, you’re perfect. No, no, no, that’s exactly– 

Christine: I’m– [laughs] 

Em: Yes. [applause] 

Christine: Well, you don’t even know what I am. 

Em: You look fucking fabulous. I don't give a shit. What’re– What, what are you? Tell me! 

Christine: I’m your Partner in Time, a Crime Traveller. 

Em: I’m so in love with you. 

Christine: And I’ve [laughs] gone back in time to some unknown decade that I can’t quite figure out. 

Em: See, you’re– You look like you would actually blend in perfectly with the Cryptids Unscripted Poetry Slam. You look like– 

Christine: Oh, thank you. 

Em: You have a– 

Christine: I did wear, uh– I did buy two novelty hats from– and sunglasses from Trader Joe’s in the last– Not Trader Joe’s. Dear Christ. From Target in the last week, um, because I just can’t get the accessory game right. But yeah, I got my fuzzy bucket hat, um, and my, uh, my retro sunglasses, my pearls. I don’t know. I– And a flashlight that– 

Em: No– 

Christine: –that I stole from Blaise’s nightstand ’cause he actually has useful things in his nightstand. 

Em: You know– Christine, you– you’re, you’re, you’re burying the lead. You know what’s really selling it? 

Christine: What’s that? 

Em: Is your shirt looks like an investigator cloak or something. 

Christine: That is true. I did wear my short sleeve like, um– It’s called a camper shirt – from Quince, of course, ’cause that’s where all, all my clothes are from. But yeah, I wanted to look kinda like Inspector Gadget. 

Em: You look like Inspector Gadget. You look like if, um, a beatnik and Inspector Gadget had a baby– 

Christine: Aw. That’s what I was going for. 

Em: –and then moved to Silver Lake. That’s what– 

Christine: That’s, [laughs] that’s what I was going for. Thank you so much. 

Em: You killed it. You– And you actually do look like an inspector. Your glasses, um, are giving more of like “just for surveillance” novelty. But– 

Christine: That’s right. 

Em: –the hat? [makes kiss noise] Mwah! 

Christine: It does kinda feel like Moira Rose trying to be subtle. But, um. 

Em: That’s a great way to put it. 

Christine: But thank you. I’m so glad you like it, and I feel like you– I’m on the hunt for you. Like I feel like you would be in the shadows hiding, swishing your skirts, and I would be with my fl– my little, um, ghost flashlight like looking for you, you know? 

Em: That’s right. I, I will be swishing a skirt on stage this week. 

Christine: I can’t wait. I’m actually really happy I know your costume now ’cause I feel like now I can kind of like– ’Cause I have a separate one for the live shows that I’m really excited about that needs a lot of work still, but now I can kind of like form it, like– 

Em: Gauge. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like play along, play off you. 

Em: Well, so right now the theory is that makeup will be done, and that– I was worried. I was like, “How am I gonna not see you beforehand to surprise you on stage?” But I actually don’t know if I'm gonna do the makeup or not. I– It hasn’t gotten here in time yet, and all I have is literal white clown makeup and that would be just too fucking scary. 

Christine: Oh goodness. I mean, I have– 

Em: I want to have a drag queen like do the contour lines for me and make me look good, you know. 

Christine: Oh. Oh, hell yeah. I mean, if you want I can pull up just a YouTube video. We go to Walgreens before the show. That could be fun. 

Em: Oh! At the very least, I might just do a bold red, like a lip, you know. 

Christine: Wow, wow, wow, wow. 

Em: Something silly. Something j– va-va-voom. 

Christine: Talk about taking the spotlight. You’re gonna be the star of the show. 

Em: I– I’m not used to long hair, so immediately I’m just like [makes spitting sounds like trying to get hair out of mouth] 

Christine: Oh, getting it out of your– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Um, no, I am excited to be, uh, the Lady in White. There always– There’s always a Lady in White, so you gotta, you know. 

Christine: You gotta just be her sometimes. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: You just gotta like own it. Do you know what Leona is gonna be for Halloween? 

Em: [gasps] The Girl in White? 

Christine: It’s out– 

Em: What? 

Christine: It’s out of control. It– 

Em: Tell me. 

Christine: I have tried my darndest to change this as delicately and– as I can, and I can’t. And so she’s gonna be a character from, um, the Pete the Cat books and TV series. And the character’s name is Grumpy Toad, and– 

Em: Hell yeah. 

Christine: –he just is– There’s no– He’s not a famous c-character. There’s nothing like especially– I mean, he’s a toad, but like look at this. This is– Oh my god, I can’t wait to post these photos when they actually happen ’cause I’m working on her costume right now. This is the, uh, picture of Grumpy Toad. I just texted it to you. [laughs] 

Em: She’s– I mean, you’re literally wearing the same glasses right now. Just– Let’s be clear. 

Christine: [laughs] I know. That’s such– 

Em: Um, is she gonna wear those glasses for Grumpy Toad because–? 

Christine: Yeah, well not these ones. I actually bought her like almost the exact same glasses. On this frog creature, I found like almost the exact pair, so I’m gonna give those to her. They’re wireframe with purple lenses. Um, it– 

Em: Grumpy Toad doesn’t even look grumpy. Grumpy Toad just looks, um– 

[image of Grumpy Toad from Pete the Cat, a 2D animated series. He is standing with a slouch, a slight frown on his face, and half-lidded eyes. He has glasses with purple lenses perched on his nose] 

Christine: Grumpy Toad has a se– 

Em: –judgy. 

Christine: He has a serious attitude problem. 

Em: Does he? 

Christine: Uh, yeah. And he– 

Em: I believe you. 

Christine: The thing is that he steals cupcakes, so I think Leona is like, “Oh, I wanna be the one with all the cupcakes,” is why she wants to be– Like she’s pretty smart in that way. She’s like– 

Em: I love that kid. 

Christine: “I know. I wanna be–“ So that– the one I sent you is a TV character, Em. I wanna show you the one from the actual book series because that feels like even more, uh– 

Em: Terrifying? 

Christine: No, just like, “What are you doing? This is– What is this?” Um, here’s a picture of him. 

[illustration from a Pete the Cat book showing animals at a cupcake party for Pete the Cat. Grumpy Toad is sitting to the side, holding a large tray of cupcakes over his head. He has a small smile and has wireframe glasses perched on his nose] 

Em: Hell yeah. 

Christine: I just don’t– 

Em: For grumpy he just looks like he’s just– The cat– 

Christine: Well, that’s after he’s– That’s after he stole all the, all the cupcakes. 

Em: The cat– I see. The cat looks pretty pissed. Um. 

Christine: Yeah, Pete– Pete’s just really chill all the time. Um– 

Em: This– I mean, I love it. Good for– 

Christine: Yeah. Oh, I’m glad s– 

Em: Good for Leona. I love that she’s– 

Christine: Yeah, she’s really stuck to her guns on this one, so. 

Em: She’s found someone to, um, inspire her. 

Christine: You know what? I guess that is a good way to put it. This is usually his go-to. It looks kinda like Patrick Star in the way of like– 

Em: Kind of a mouth-breather. [laughs] 

Christine: – [in a low, melancholy voice], “Always kind of like this.” Yeah, kind of a mouth-breather. So– 

Em: Sad eyes, big tummy. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. Um, doesn’t say anything particularly engaging or insightful. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, but yeah, this is Grumpy Toad. So that’s Leona’s costume, so it’s gonna be a weird year, but, um, I’m ready for it. 

Em: Perfect. Uh, good for her. I– 

Christine: [laughs] You in that hair. Every time I switch back to this tab, I’m like, “Ah!” [laughs] 

Em: You know, I will actually– Like this was me literally throwing it on just to like show you something. She will be styled maybe. 

Christine: Oh, I can’t wait. 

Em: I’m like– I– 

Christine: Do you want me to bring my curling iron? 

Em: I was thinking maybe we do like a little Kardashian beach wavy thing? You know, like a, a va-va-voom? 

Christine: What if I got one of those cool crimpers from 1-800– from a, from an infomercial where we bead the hair, crimp it? 

Em: [sighs] Bead sounds like a lot– 

Christine: We– 

Em: I, I remember crimping hair and then just like covering it in basically “shlack” hairspray just like [laughs]– 

Christine: Yes, and then like putting glitter on top of that. 

Em: [groans] No, thank you. 

Christine: And it was like, “I wonder why I have split ends.” 

Em: I– No, this hair– She was, she was supposed to come curly. I just– As I opened it– 

Christine: But you can tell she’s stylish though. 

Em: She’s– has the ability. Um, she– 

Christine: Yeah, you can tell she’s g– she’s ready for it. 

Em: She was like $7, so she probably will fry the second– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: She actually probably has a– 

Christine: I actually– She th– doesn’t look $7. Kinda nice. 

Em: She, she has a better chance of maybe not being touched. Um, I think I’m gonna ruin it by doing something to it, but I will try also so. 

Christine: I do have one important question which is when you googled it or searched for it on Amazon, what was the– What was it being intended f– Like what costume did it display as like the intended costume? Or did it just have the wig? 

Em: Um, it was som– 

Christine: Was it like, “Here’s your Father Time/Cher costume”? 

Em: It was– No– [laughs] 

Christine: Or was it like just a wig? 

Em: I think it was su– I think it was supposed to be, um, like an actual wig that someone wears, like just for everyday. 

Christine: Oh, oh, oh, just like an accessory. 

Em: But they clearly picked somebody not meant for the role because she was like severely tan– 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] 

Em: –and I was like, “Okay? Like I feel like you would want to kinda match like your hair with your–“ 

Christine: This feels like a senior citizen energy, yeah. 

Em: She, she– The person that they picked was like someone who like just came from the Outer Banks, and she has like– She had those contact lenses that like made her very dark brown eyes not look blue– 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: –even though she’s trying– It was, it was a weird– 

Christine: She sounds like a White Walker like from Game of Thrones the way you’re des– with that wig, but I– 

Em: This plus the contacts made me think for a second it must be– she’s trying– she’s shooting for a Halloween costume. 

Christine: It’s gotta be. 

Em: But, but she just looked like a person who’s making some interesting choices, so. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Well, you know what? That– Good for her. If that’s her identity, that’s her identity. Um– 

Em: Yeah, good f– You know what? Do– I– There was a girl in my sorority named Lori, and she went through that phase with like the contacts where like– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. We– I feel like we all had a friend who did that, and you were like, “All right, get it.” 

Em: You just look at them, and it’s like, “You’re not fooling anybody.” 

Christine: It’s like a startle moment I always feel like. Like it’s like, “Eugh!” 

Em: It’s a jumpscare, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: 'Cause I’m like I– If what you’re trying to convey is like you obviously don’t want natural eye color to be present on you, then you’re nailing it. But like you can’t possibly think I’m– 

Christine: Fooled. 

Em: –going to detail you to the police as someone with blue eyes. Like– [laughs] 

Christine: Unless– 

Em: What? 

Christine: Unless– You’re supposed to say, “Unless?” 

Em: Unless? 

Christine: Unless we’re being fooled by some people, and we just don’t even know it. Like what if I’ve always worn these and you didn’t even realize, you know? What if we only spot the ones that are like not very well done, but like some people have very sneaky ones. 

Em: You know, as the investigator of the day– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –I’m gonna let you believe whatever you want to believe on that. Um– 

Christine: Thank you. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] No– And it’s always the people– I don’t know. It’s always the people with– that have those contacts that they always have like some fucking– Like I just always assume they were the kids who were like crazy like party ragers. Like– 

Christine: Right, ’cause their eyes are purple, and you’re like, “What?” 

Em: Yeah. I feel like I’m like, “Are you still trying to– What do you– What are you– You’re trying to let me know that you still have a little silly in you, I think.” Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You’re here– You’re not here to just sit around. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like something– There’s– You’re bringing a certain energy to the table. 

Em: But Lori– She swore up and down that they were her real eyes, and I was like, “Please don’t bullshit a bullshitter.” 

Christine: Oh, yeah. That’s when it kind– Yeah, don’t bullshit a bullshitter. You know what you do is like you wait ’til it’s like, it’s like two in the mor– like 11:00 p.m., whenever Lori’s bedtime is, and like you’re in her dorm room. And you’re like, “Oh, I just need to borrow the textbook– [gasps] One of your–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And it’s like as she’s taking her contacts out. Or in the bathroom, like the shared bathroom, you know. I’m sure, you know, she’s been in there with a solution, contact solution. 

Em: I should have just, uh, I should have just like slipped a $10 to her roommate and been like, “What is going on in there?” 

Christine: Yeah, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Except I already fucking know what’s going in there. 

Christine: Spill the deets. Exactly, exactly. 

Em: It’s like, “I just need you to confirm it for me.” Anyway– 

Christine: Yeah, “Just take your big Sony, uh, flip digital camera–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–and take a v– high flash phot-photo so we can all see it for our very own eyes.” Oh, do you want to see my new tattoo? 

Em: More than anything on Earth. Where did you get it? 

Christine: I went yes– Uh, Friday, I went to Sisters Tattoo in Oakley, and it– The– 

Em: No, bitch. On your body. Where did you get it? [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, well, I want to give them a shout-out also. But yeah, Lynx was my tattoo artist and, uh, lis– ap-apparently listens to the show, said she listens. We’ll see if that’s real or not. 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: Um, we’ll see if she ever hears her shout-out. This will be the big test, Lynx. Are you really listening? 

Em: The secret code is Lori’s eyes. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] You better tell us what color Lori’s eyes really naturally were and then you’ll pass the test. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: Um, but yeah, it took forever. It took like six or seven hours, and poor Lynx was– 

Em: Holy shit. 

Christine: –very pregnant, and so I was like, “This–“ I was complaining, and then she’s just sitting there for like six and a half hours. 

Em: What’d you get? 

Christine: Here it is. Okay. 

[Christine rolls up her left sleeve to show a new tattoo on her inner bicep] 

Em: What the fuck? Oh my God. Is that a– 

Christine: So– 

Em: Okay, from far away, it’s a sloth? A monkey? What is it? 

Christine: [laughs] I wish it was a sloth. That would be so funny. Hold on. 

Em: It’s from far away– I just can’t tell from far away. Sorry. 

[Christine moves closer to the camera. That too is a detailed drawing of a lioness stretching and a lion cub standing next to her. Above them in the corner is a flower decoration] 

Em: Oh, hell yeah. Oh, I love that. Is that– It’s little– It’s a lioness and her cub for you and Leona. 

Christine: Yes, and it’s Leona’s birth flower on the top, um, marigold, which the– I have since learned my mother is deathly allergic to, so that’s fun. 

Em: That’s a, a story on its own. I– 

Christine: That feels symbolic. And then, uh, [chuckles] the, the mommy lion is stretching ’cause it’s like a big cat stretch like– 

Em: 'Cause you like big stretches. 

Christine: Mm, just to take care of yourself, you know. 

Em: Oh, love that. 

Christine: But it’s humongous, like on my arm. It’s like I’m stretching while the baby’s playing, you know. I don’t know, but, uh, that was the– 

Em: It could also– I mean, that– You could use that in so many ways ’cause now when like Leona’s screaming, you could just go– [leans backwards, stretching their back and groaning] 

Christine: “I’m so sorry. I’ve got to do a, uh, a, a downward dog real quick.” 

Em: Yeah, [laughs] “I just have to like str–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “–want to rip my own body in half right now.” 

Christine: Yeah, she’ll probably just push me over, but that’s okay. 

Em: [laughs] Um, so okay. How long have you had that idea in your head? 'Cause I’ve never heard this – or m– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I don’t think I have. 

Christine: I, I don’t think I’ve even told it– ’Cause there were two ideas I had that I pitched to Lynx: one was the crocodile one, and one was this one. And then she was like, “Oh, she does more–“ This is more her style, um. And so I had it booked forever, for like months, and I just never really like talked about it or thought about it. And then one day, I was like, “Shit! I have that to– tattoo tomorrow.” And, um, originally it was just gonna be the lion stretching. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And so I was like, “Oh, it won’t be a big deal. It’ll j–” And then it ended up into this like giant masterpiece on my arm, like, um– 

Em: Did you always want it that size? Or was this a, a last minute choice? 

Christine: I did want it that size. I didn’t quite envision it and how gigantic it would be, but I kind of am happy with it now. Like– 

Em: I like it. 

Christine: –I feel like it needed to be kind of that big to see it properly. But yeah, um, so that’s my– 

Em: Are you, um, planning on like a whole half-sleeve eventually? 

Christine: I don’t know, man. I guess I wasn’t until now, and now I’m like, “Well…” 

Em: Now you gotta fill her out, yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] I might’ve s– I might’ve started something that I can’t turn back time. Um– 

Em: [laughs] Allison always tells me she wants to do like a half-sleeve or something, and I’m like, “You don’t have a single tattoo.” 

Christine: She doesn’t have a single tattoo, which I love this energy for her though. 

Em: But she’s like, “I w-will just–“ 

Christine: She’s like, “But if I did…” 

Em: “I’ll just go in one day, and my arms will be covered.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: But I’m like, “What would you even get?” I, I can’t– She’s such like a– I, I don’t, I don’t– I’m thinking like she’s such a logical thinker (that’s not to mean though like obviously you’re not a logical person if you a tattoo) but like– She like just is such like a– Like she goes and does Excel sheet classes on Saturdays. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Like she goes– She takes classes at the Y to learn more about Excel sheets. She’s not like, “I’m gonna go get a tattoo” kind of person. She’s– 

Christine: She’s not really like the wild child of the– 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: –of the bunch. 

Em: She’s certainly not impulsive at all, and I feel like, uh, any tattoo I would get would be an impulsive choice. 

Christine: You know that song by Smash Mouth? Basically she is the smartest– the sharpest tool in the shed. 

Em: She– [laughs] Yeah, she is. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I was just telling Christine before we started recording: she was the kid who asked the teacher about the extra assignments– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and all the kids probably hated her. 

Christine: Like, “Hey, what about the assignment? You didn’t ask us to turn it in yet.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And all the kids were like, “Ugh, we were hoping she forgot!” 

Em: Or right before, uh– Right before she would– the– you know, she would dismiss the class, Allison would go, “Teacher, teacher! Do we have any homework?” 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. 

Em: Fuck you! That’s the kind of person Allison is. So– 

Christine: The bane of our existence as children. 

Em: So I don’t, I don’t know– I think she just likes the aesthetic. She’s, she’s currently dabbling with like an, an identity change, and she is– Sh– I know her– 

Christine: It’s a good thing you bought a wig. 

Em: I know [laughs]. My identity is also changing. Um– 

Christine: And we should get her some colored contacts. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] No, she– Oh, blech! [makes spitting noise as hair from the wig gets in their mouth] Oh, this stupid hair in my mouth. 

Christine: Jesus Christ. [laughs] 

Em: She– [laughs] She, um– 

Christine: Is that our live show? Are you gonna b– spit in the microphone the whole night? 

Em: We’ll see. 

Christine: 'Cause I feel like people are going to ask for refunds. 

Em: TBD. Um, no, she’s– I know her like dream aesthetic. She’s always like very, um, socially intimidated by like the cool kid. They probably used to be emo kids. They’ve got like a, like very creative half-sleeve tattoos. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And I’m like, “Okay, so you– I think you just like want to be in on that in-crowd.” But, but when I think about her with a sleeve, I’m like, “I dare you to come up with an idea that you like enough,” and she like can’t come up with one. So I don’t know what’s gonna happen. 

Christine: I mean, she could do some of those like ones that Eva and I are always buying those, like Inkbox, like that last like a week or two, and then you can kind of– 

Em: That’s my own gift to myself after this tour is I’m buying a bunch of stuff on Inkbox. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Um, well, this– Because I can’t tolerate– I know that like as much as I would like a tattoo in a moment, in six months, I’ll never want it again, so I’d rather just do the– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: You know what I mean? 

Christine: No. 

Em: I don’t love anything– I don’t love anything enough for– to keep it on me permanently. 

Christine: Oh, ow. Ow! Not even our podcast? I’m just kidding that was, that was, uh– Now I’m just bai– 

Em: No, I don’t think so. 

Christine: Really? 

Em: I don’t kno– If, if I got a tattoo, it would probably be something like that, ’cause it would have– it would hold like, like an actual significance for me that I would hold on to. But like, like– So Eva, for example, she will go to a flash sale like no one’s business, and she’ll just get a random tattoo one day. I, I would not be able to think like that. I would have to like really like get in the zone and like come up with the exact thing and– 

Christine: Well, yeah, and I mean for– Especially for my first one and my first three, it was like, “It has to be symbolic. It has to be s– very, very, very permanent. Like something I know I’m gonna–“ I was also the same way. Like it took me ’til my 20s to get a tattoo ’cause I was like, “It has to be really important, and I’ve had to thought– think about it for years.” 

Em: Yeah, and, I’m– That’s not necessarily true, but it is for me that I like I need t– It needs to matter matter matter. 

Christine: No, I was the same way. I think by the, by the fourth or fifth one I started getting a little loosey-goosey with it. 

Em: Allison, are you here? What the fuck’s going on? This is the sec– Oh my God, you’re here. Thank God. I was like, “I swear to God, there’s a ghost.” Allison, come here real quick for the podcast. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Gun to your head – you’re getting a tattoo right now. What are you doing? 

Allison: This. In a wig. 

Em: Oh, me in a wig. [laughs] No, r– I– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: You, you want a– You– I ke– I was telling her how like you like thought about if you got a tattoo like– 

Allison: Pine cones. 

Em: Your toes? 

Allison: [enunciating] Pine cones. [laughs] 

Em: Pine cones. 

Christine: Oh, pine cones. That’s cute. I like that. 

Em: Is there a reason? 

Allison: [quiet in background offscreen] Yeah, we grew up in the woods– [unintelligible] 

Em: Sounds like a, a boxcar child. [laughs] Allison’s like, “Well, ’cause I used to pick up pine cones as a kid.” [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, I get it immediately. You don’t have to tell me the reason. I know why you’d get a pine cone. I would love a pine cone tattoo. 

Em: Also she did grow up– She also just said this too is that she grew up in an area that was like full of pine trees. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Her dad to this day is still trying to chop all of them down. He’ll never finish it. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, good! [laughs] And she’s like, “Hey, Dad, remember how much you hate these things?” 

Em: Um, no. Anyway, yeah, I don’t know what I would get. I know I would want it with blacklight ink. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: 'Cause like, why not? If you’re gonna, if you’re gonna get a tattoo, might as well glow. 

Christine: I guess so. 

Em: I would like maybe a flux capacitor. And it– 

Christine: Oh, that’s pretty cool. 

Em: –fluxes in black light ink. 

Christine: Yeah, I mean, that’s– That makes total sense for you. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. What’s your next one? 

Christine: My next tattoo? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Oh, I would like to get either my “Hum Hallelujah,” one of my Fall Out Boy lyrics, /Leonard Cohen/childhood flowers from my childhood garden. Like this is what I mean. Like I, I also am like you where I’m like, “It has to mean something forever,” you know. Um, but then– And that would be on my leg, but I also want to get a crocodile at some point. But this one was a freaking marathon, so– 

Em: Was it painful? 

Christine: Not really, no. 

Em: Okay, that’s good. 

Christine: Um, but it was a long day, so I think I’m gonna wait a little bit. And it’s expensive. 

Em: Well, I’m proud of you. It looks very nice. 

Christine: Thank you! I appreciate that. I thought Lynx did a very good job, so if anyone’s looking for, um– Lynx was one of those tattoo artists that I followed for so long, and then like she announced that her books were open, and I like had to like jump on. I was like having post notifications turn on to make sure I didn’t miss it, and she finally picked me. 

Em: You know, Lynx is either a chosen name, or Lynx was named by other tattoo artists. Like [laughs] I feel like– 

Christine: It has very tattoo vibes, doesn’t it? Yeah. 

Em: There’s no way your name is Lynx and you don’t do something clever. 

Christine: You don’t have tattoos– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –or give them to people. Yeah. Um, yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that part, but, um, pretty cool. Really talented. 

Em: It– I will say I– And I’ve told you this before– This will be the last thing I say. I know we’ve been going on about tattoos for a little bit, but– 

Christine: [as she adjusts her bucket hat, the sales tag becomes visible] Oops, now you can see that I plan on returning this hat. Let me turn it backwards. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Here comes the tag. [laughs] 

Em: Um, if I had to get a tattoo with you – I’ve said this for sure – it’s that, um, uh, I would want to get our little ghosty guys logo from the tours. 

Christine: Phew, I’m so glad you said that ’cause I was telling Lynx all about it and then when you didn’t say it on this one, Lynz is gonna be like, “Oh, Christine, you sucker. Em was never gonna get that tattoo with you,” so I’m so glad. 

Em: No, if I, if I got a tat– it would either be our And That’s Why We Drink logo or it would be the ghosty guys. 

Christine: The ghost– I think that would be cute to get like little p-partner tats. 

Em: I would like to get my ghosty guy [holds up their right forearm], and you get your skeleton guy [holds up their left forearm], and then together they make the ghosty guys. 

Christine: Yeah, I kind of love that idea. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And Em has always said, “Well, we have to wait ’til the podcast is over, so that we don’t go through a terrible divorce.” [laughs] 

Em: It’s true. I don’t want to find out that there’s like– I don’t want to be tattooed and then like have a bad memory attached to it, you know. 

Christine: I get it. I get it. I get it. 

Em: So don’t fuck up, Christine. 

Christine: So when we’re 99, we’ll get those matching tattoos. 

Em: Well, y– certainly after episode 1,000 or whatever we just recently promised. 

Christine: Yes, yes, yes. 

Em: Um, if– Honestly, for our 1,000th episode, I would totally do it, even if we have a nasty breakup. 

Christine: Okay! Let’s– Okay, let’s– What if– 

Em: So 600 episodes from now. 

Christine: Wait, can you imagine we have a nasty breakup and we’re still doing recordings at 1,000? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: We just fucking hate each other now. 

Em: No, I mean on episode 1,001 if that’s when the feud begins, I’ll be okay with it. 

Christine: Oh, I see. You’re still happy to have gotten it. Okay. Are– 

Em: 'Cause I’ll be like, “Well, that was 1,000 weeks of my life with somebody.” 

Christine: Okay. Well, let’s remember this moment. I really hate the way we look as we’re making this promise for years down the line. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But hey, at least we look youthful, and our skin is probably glowier than it will be. At, uh, episode 1,000, we’re gonna be getting tatted. 

Em: It’s– It’ll certainly be– It’s dewier for sure, yes. 

Christine: It’s dewier indeed. 

Em: Um, okay and before we– Well, I guess no, not really. This is our “And That’s Why We Drink” segment. The reason why I drink this week – I just want to beat you to it – is because last night, I was at the Queen Mary, and I thought of you the whole time. 

Christine: Whaa–?! How was it? 

Em: Um, well, little Jackie didn’t show up and haunt us, so we’re in the clear. So it went well. 

Christine: That’s probably for the best. Did you– Was it the jumpscare, um– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –thingy they do? What is that called? Um– 

Em: Ugh, okay. So it used to be called– Well, it’s– Okay, it used to be called– 

Christine: Isn’t it Shaq’s now? 

Em: Here’s the thing. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: It used to be called Dark Harbor– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –which is when it was good. Then it got bought out by Shaquille O’Neal. 

Christine: [laughs] The one and only. 

Em: And he turned it into “Shaqtober”, which I think he was trying to get people to call it “Shocktober”, but like we know your name’s fucking Shaq, so that didn’t work. And– 

Christine: I think Shaqtober is actually pretty clever, I’ll be honest. 

Em: From the name, it’s been bad. Like it w– Like Allison and I went the first year it was Shaqtober, and we were like, “We’re never coming back here.” 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: It just was n-not– It was, it was no Dark Harbor. 

Christine: Well, that’s a hard thing to do after it’s already been successful: to move on in, rebrand it, and then have people like it as much as they did before. 

Em: But if I were going to buy a business that was already insanely successful, I would– 

Christine: Yeah, why would you mess with it? 

Em: I would be like, “Okay, I’m just putting my name on everything and not, not touching anything.” 

Christine: “And every year I’m gonna add one Shaq–themed item until people don’t even realize–“ 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: “–that everything’s been swapped out for Shaqtober.” [laughs] 

Em: The slow– The long con. The long, long con. 

Christine: “Until everyone’s saying Shaq– uh, September, Shaqtober, November.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “And we don’t even realize [laughs] that he’s taken over the whole holiday.” 

Em: Um, but so yeah he changed everything. It was like– It felt more like a fair– like fair games, like carnival games the first year. I don’t know if like– 

Christine: Oh, that sounds more like my vibe, which probably is not how it was before, yeah. 

Em: Even the jumpscare houses– I mean, maybe we went on a bad day. Shaquille O’Neal, if you listen to our podcast, I apologize for the, um– 

Christine: Yeah, what the fuck? Hey, Shaq? I’m on your side. I wanna be at this festival. 

Em: [laughs] Um, but like the jumpscare houses, they existed– Like at this point, they should– They just shouldn’t have had jumpscare houses ’cause they were– The lights were on, and literally nobody was home. 

Christine: [laughs] That– 

Em: Like– 

Christine: Okay. I’m literally going to that event. It’s the only Halloween event that’s ever appealed to me. 

Em: I wonder if it was supposed to be like, like an intro jumpscare attraction for like kids or something. But like– 

Christine: For me and all the children. 

Em: –truly, it was like– First of all, the line was like– Or not the line. The, um, the attraction itself like walking through it was like maybe like a 30 second attraction, and the entire time, one person would like stand there and kinda wave, like not do anything scary. And the lights truly– Like it was not good. So then I think everyone kind of felt the same way because Shaqtober is out, and Dark Harbor bought it again this year. 

Christine: Oh! Oh, Shaq’s gone? 

Em: Shaq– 

Christine: He barely stood a chance. 

Em: He– Yeah, it, it did not land. Um, and so after he left, Dark Harbor bought it again, which I would love to know the drama for why they even sold it to begin with. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: They brought it back, and I think they were like, “Okay, now we’re really gonna let everybody know this is not your fucking Shaqtober event–“ 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “–and we’re gonna fuck it up.” And it was the best version of Dark Harbor, like even old Dark Harbor doesn’t compete. 

Christine: So they like topped themselves. Wait, what if this was all a marketing ploy? They were like, “Let’s pretend Shaq bought it and made it really shitty–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–so that next year, it seems extra good by comparison.” 

Em: Can you imagine the meeting they had with Shaq of like, “Okay, here’s the thing. You’re gonna suck.“ 

Christine: No, but what if Shaq wasn’t even involved? What if they just pretended the whole time? 

Em: Ohhh. 

Christine: And everyone was like– And they were like, “Oh...” 

Em: Maybe, maybe it was actually “shock” the whole time. It was never Shaq. 

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. It was Shocktober. Shaq had nothing to do with it. That was just a coincidence. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Hi– I mean his face was everywhere, but that’s AI, obviously. That was– 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] I was gonna say maybe they just like– maybe that was just a really good look-alike. 

[laughs] 

Em: Well, um, yeah, so they ended up– I mean, I, I miss some of the jumpscare attractions that they had. My only complaint is back then that they had like nine jump– jumpscares, and now they only have five. But the five are like twice as long. Like the first one we did was like a ten minute walkthrough. Like you just– It just, it just kept going, and at some point, I was like, “Are we still– Like when does it end? When does this end?” 

Christine: How long are they usually? In my mind, they lasted six hours. I don’t re-recall the actual time. [laughs] 

Em: I think they’re like two or three minutes or something. I mean, this– 

Christine: In my brain, it– Every one of those events took like hours to get through. 

Em: No, this– I mean, there were– These were so long that I actually like pulled out my phone at one point, and I was like, “Oh my God, I, I forgot I’m still in this stupid thing.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Like I just forgot. Um. 

Christine: “Let me check stocks real quick.” 

Em: [laughs] It was just– It just kept going, and it was all really good too. Um, so anyway, I– 

Christine: Well, that’s good. Okay? That’s a, that’s a plus. 

Em: I was there. It was fun. I got to look at it. They– There were signs everywhere about Jackie, who apparently they call “Scary Mary” instead of Jackie. 

Christine: What? 

Em: Um, I don’t know. 

Christine: Well, that’s kinda rude. Whatever. 

Em: Anyway, the Queen Mary says, “Hi.” 

Christine: Hello! 

Em: Why do you drink? 

Christine: Uh, “Ahoy!” I say back. 

Em: Oh, I’ll let her know. 

Christine: Um, I drink just because of Grumpy Toad and how I’m trying to scramble together as if I have– I literally– We were at Target, and I said, “Look, a Spidey costume. Wouldn’t that be easy and fun to wear?” And she said, “No, I’m Grumpy Toad,” and then she looked around and said, “I can’t find the Grumpy Toad costumes anywhere.” And I was like, “Oh, girl.” 

Em: I know. That's tough. [laughs] 

Christine: And so now I have to fucking hand-make a Grumpy Toad costume, and I’m like, “How–“ That’s m– why I drink for Halloween. It’s like– 

Em: It does seem like she just has to paint herself green and wear a hat and some glasses. 

Christine: Yeah, I– 

Em: And eat cupcakes. 

Christine: But you know I’m gonna have to just make it look as close as I can. Like I’m not gonna half– I can’t half-ass any craft project. 

Em: Well, that’s easy. That’s just a frog onesie, and you just get a hat and a– glasses. 

Christine: I– Listen, don’t even worry. I’ve got it all figured out. I’ve got a whole– I’ve got the green body paint. 

Em: Hell yeah. 

Christine: I’ve got the glasses. I’ve got the felt spots. 

Em: Mm! 

Christine: I’ve got the, um, whatchamacallit– uh, black paint for the frown. I’ve got cupcakes she can hold, faux cupcakes. 

Em: I can’t– I’ll have to send her more cupcakes ’cause if she’s looking for more, I gotta make sure that she– 

Christine: I guess you better send them. You can just address them to me. I’ll make sure they get where they need to go. 

Em: No, they’re spicy. You won’t like them. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] “They’re h– They’re very hot, hot.” 

Em: They’re very hot, very hot. Um, I’m very excited f– What are you gonna be? Are you gonna be anything in a– in accompaniment? In accompaniment to her? 

Christine: You know, I’ll be honest. I don’t know because I’ve been so– trying to figure out this one (well, as of this morning) and then trying to figure out, um, the one for the live show (also as of this morning). And so I’ve kind of been like not thinking in real Halloween terms, which is a little silly because I don’t think I could be– very well be a crime– If, if we’re already explaining Grumpy Toad to all our neighbors, I don’t need to be explaining Partner in Time to everybody. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So I think I’m, I think I’m just gonna probably do the classic witch and hand out candy honestly. 

Em: Beautiful, beautiful. 

Christine: Thanks. 

Em: Um, I will be a witch this weekend because I’m, uh, going to a witch-themed bachelorette party, so. 

Christine: Oh my gosh, that’s so fun. 

Em: I know, so I’m very excited to have a lot– 

Christine: How cute is that? Okay, well, uh, I can’t wait for photos of that also. 

Em: Anyway, that– Well, that’s actually– Thank you. I, I– That’s also why I didn’t have a costume for this ’cause I was like, “Between the live shows and that I already have two costumes, I don’t wanna do a third.” So. 

Christine: There’s so many. Yeah, and then try adding a child who wants to be a fucking angry frog. 

Em: Good for her. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: [sighs] And do you– 

Christine: One day I’ll love it. 

Em: –do you drink water this week, Christine? 

Christine: You know, I got my, I got my old standby Pamplemousse. [holds up a can in a koozie] Pamplemousse Lacroix. 

Em: A classic. 

Christine: You remember the good old days, huh? 

Em: Who could forget? 

Christine: What do you have? 

Em: Um, I have my “EGLL” [pronounced “eh-gull”], which is an Earl Grey lavender latte, but we call it EGLL because it always says EGLL on it. 

Christine: EGLL? It– I do like that it says EGLL on the side. 

Em: We were going with “eagle” for a while, but that didn’t really work. So– 

Christine: EGLL is v– is– EGLL’s good. 

Em: Yeah. So anyway, I got my EGLL, um, and I’m ready to tell you a story. 

Christine: Yay! 

Em: It’s a shorty, but it’s good. 

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Em’s Story – The Cell Block Nightclub

Em: Here we go. This is in Pennsylvania. This is the Cell Block Nightclub.

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And it’s called the Cell Block Nightclub because it is now a nightclub, which it’s named Cellblock in homage for the fact that it used to be a prison. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Um, so in 1801– 

Christine: I’m gonna do the “Cell Block Tango” in the Cell Block Nightclub. 

Em: Honestly, if they don’t every Friday night during closing time– 

Christine: You got– You know they have to. 

Em: –are you fucking kidding me? 

Christine: 'Cause it– The amount of requests I’m sure they get like from the DJ– for the DJ. Like you know they’re like, “Okay, fine. We’ll give in one time a week.” 

Em: You know they probably have that one drunk girl every night who thinks that she has the most original fucking idea. 

Christine: She’s so cle– But she’s the bride, so it’s like– 

Em: And she’s like, “Lemme–“ 

Christine: So it’s like well, you have to listen to her. 

Em: “Lemme just say – ‘Cell Block Tango’ would be a great play.” 

Christine: Yeah, “I have the best idea ever.” 

Em: “You do what you gotta do.” 

Christine: “Do you remember that, that musical?” “Yeah, we remember. Yeah, thank you.” 

Em: [laughs] “Yeah, girl. We did it five minutes ago actually.” 

Christine: “Yeah, girl.” 

Em: Um, and by the way, I’d eat it up every time. I– If I knew that they were gonna play it a certain time every week, I would– I would be there. 

Christine: We would just, we would just get a bowl of ice cream and walk in at that moment just to watch it happen and then leave. 

Em: In, in Virginia, there’s, uh, our country, uh, radio show, or– Yeah, the radio station that plays country music. Every day at 5 o’clock, it plays “The Star-Spangled Banner.” [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, good. [laughs] I was like, “Oh, you– probably something really fun.” Oh, never mind. [laughs] 

Em: Um, and then it also plays, um, “Finally Friday”, which is– and then they like– It’s– It– The “Finally Friday” song is very fun. I think George– 

Christine: Like that’s more clever, but like “The Star-Spangled Banner”? Really? 

Em: Well, that’s to, that’s to honor the, the country, I suppose. 

Christine: W– But why 5? Like that’s not clever. I don’t get it. 

Em: Because it’s when everyone gets out of work, and it’s a good way to start the rest of your freedom. [laughs] I don’t know. 

Christine: Jesus Christ. Okay. 

Em: Um, anyway, so– But some people tune in every– I have a friend who– She would i-ironically tune in every day at 5 just to make sure that she gave it the old salute– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –and, uh– [laughs] 

Christine: Gave it the [laughs] uh, off work salute, yeah, 

Em: Just a [Em touches their hand to their hand, saluting] “Alright.” Um, so I would do that with the “Cell Block Tango” at this bar. I’d be like, “If you tell me Thursday at 4:30, I’ll be here Thursday at 4:30.” 

Christine: I mean, I get it. I would join you for the hell of it. 

Em: Um, we’re traveling back to 1801 at the very start of this. And this is– I don’t know if I said this already. This is in Pennsylvania. And the original prison was the Williamsport County Prison, uh, built 1801. It had two stories to it. It had about a dozen cells. This is– The hair is just coming out already. [holds up a few strands of wig hairs that are already loose and falling out] This is just gonna be so disgusting. 

Christine: [laughs] Well, that’s what happens when you buy a $7 wi-wig from someone who’s lying about their eye color. 

Em: [laughs] It’s like, “Trust me,” as, as I blink in a blue-green-brown-gray eye. 

Christine: She’s like, “I accessorize so well.” Yeah, exactly. [laughs] “Trust me. I know how to look natural.” Okay. Sure. 

Em: [laughs] “This hair is perfect for you.” Okay, it’s the Williamsport County Prison – two stories, a dozen cells, which does not feel like a lot of cells to me, but I guess in 1801 there was like five people who lived there. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: And, uh, the building also had housing in the front for the sheriff and his family, which, as we now know, is the standard of the time. Still so freaky to me in– when I think about it as a concept. 

Christine: What? That there’s a sh– Wait, say it again. 

Em: That, that there’s always housing in front of the prison for the s– 

Christine: Oh, oh, for living there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: It’s always weird to me that they just live– Like on the other side of the wall is just like some inmates. 

Christine: Yeah, it feels like a very old– 

Em: And like you’re a little kid. 

Christine: It feels like a very old-timey thing. Like people would live above their businesses but this feels like a little too far, you know? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like I get if like the– Even the dean of a university living on campus is a little weird to me still. 

Em: Uh-huh. 

Christine: But, but like as– Like this feels like you’re too close to ho– You know, don’t– What do they say? Don’t shit on where– in your food? 

Em: Where you eat. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, yeah. That. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Uh, and I feel like this is breaking that rule. [laughs] 

Em: I– Especially when you’re a little kid. Imagine you grow up, and you’re like, “Oh, yeah. The inmates and I would wave through the bars.” Like what? 

Christine: Yeah, “We were like playing, playing jacks through the barbed wire.” Like what are you talking about? 

Em: “They taught me how to gamble in the back corner by the showers.” Like– 

Christine: Yeah, “They had me bring cigarettes to the corner.” Yeah. I just feel like– 

Em: “I was actually a mule.” Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: Hang on, this actually sounds fun. Never mind. I like it a– I like it again. 

Em: Uh, no. I imagine the stories are crazy– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: –of, of kids who were raised in jail or next to a jail. 

Christine: This feels like a TV show idea – TM, TM. 

Em: So, um, after the Civil War, Williamsport had a boom in people, and that includes ruffians and criminals. And– 

Christine: [gasps] No, you don’t say. 

Em: –those dozen cells I was talking about earlier, as predicted, were not enough. So they had to rebuild. 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: And well, they were thinking about rebuilding. They were like, “You know what? Maybe we should add that onto the to-do list for next year. Let’s talk about it next quarter,” I’m sure is exactly the words they use–. 

Christine: [laughs] Quarter. 

Em: And conveniently, the jail actually caught on fire and was– It was such a bad fire that the building was like severely damaged, and they had to tear it down. And they were like, “Well–“ 

Christine: They’re like, “Oh, we might as well.” 

Em: They were like, “This is a great place for another jail that we were already talking about.” 

Christine: Damn. 

Em: So the– It got torn down in 1867. It, uh, was rebuilt in 1868, and because I know you eat it up, it was rebuilt for– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –$139,44– Oh, sorry. $139,440.87. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And that was in 1868. 

Christine: Somebody was like, “I–“ Somebody would– took an excel class with Allison and was like, “I know it to the cent.” 

Em: I was gonna say– The Allison of Williamsport County said– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. [laughs] 

Em: –[in a high, nasal voice] “The 87 cents matters.” Um– 

Christine: “Teacher! Teacher!” 

Em: [laughs] And, uh, I obviously looked up the inflation for you. And that to– in today’s world is just over $3.2 million and 86 cents. So. 

Christine: Okay, that’s a good chunk of change. 

Em: Uh, and it could still only hold up to 100 inmates, so which– 

Christine: Oh. Okay. It feels– 

Em: I think be– 

Christine: Hm. 

Em: I feel like because we live in the U.S. of A. – insert eagle screech – 

Christine: Maybe. 

Em: –um, I feel like– 

Christine: Not “iggle”, not EGLL. T– Don’t be confused with EGLL. 

Em: Not, not this. [holds up their Earl Grey lavender latte] Not this yummy little divine piece of glory. 

Christine: This one. [screeches like an eagle] 

Em: [screeches like an eagle] Um, I feel like, uh, since we just have like a large and corrupt federal system– prison system, I’m used to like only massive buildings that hold hundreds and hundreds and thousands of people. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: So it’s, uh– When they rebuilt for it to only hold 100 people at best, I’m like, “Oh, that’s interesting.” 

Christine: They were, they were very optimistic, you know– 

Em: Yeah. I was like, “How many–“ 

Christine: –about the future. [laughs] It’ll be limited capacity. 

Em: I was like, “Instead of 12 cells, is that like– What? 10 more?” Like– Um, so anyway, they rebuild. 

Christine: That’s fewer spot– That’s fewer place– That’s fewer rooms than the freaking Margaritaville that’s opening up here in 2026. Like I think they’re gonna have like 300-some rooms. That– Th-this– That’s, that’s wild. Yeah. 

Em: I’m happy to know Margaritaville is still thriving somewhere because ours and Fredericksburg got taken down. Or no, we had, we had a 5 o’Clock Somewhere, I think. 

Christine: Well, it– Ma– Maybe they’re moving to here ’cause it’s gonna be the full shebang: resort, four restaurants, um– 

Em: Yeah, I’m coming opening night. I promise. 

Christine: Well,I know you’d like– You know that I’m just booking you there now when you stay, right? 'Cause it’s walking distance from my house. Oy vey. 

Em: Oh, well, triangulate yourself more. 

Christine: [sighs] We’ve had this discussion already about the, the neon toucan in my window or whatever the fuck– neon parrot. 

Em: [laughs] [sighs] Okay. So, 100 people can be there at best. Out of those 100 people– or I guess it was around for like over 100 years, so certainly held more than 100 people at some point. Um, there were seven hangings here– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –when it– there was a death row. And eventually, the seven hangings– They were like, “Okay, we’re done with hangings,” and everyone did a sigh of relief because they thought that meant like no more death row. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And they went, “Just kidding. We’ve actually just installed an electric chair.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: So then there were electric chair deaths. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: Um, of the seven who died by hanging, six were men; one was a woman. Um, I will say, fun fact: one of those six men who was hanged and the woman – they were, um, executed together because they both were incarcerated for being in love, having an affair, and murdering her husband so they could be together. 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: And that woman who was hanged was the last woman to be hanged in Pennsylvania history. 

Christine: Really? 

Em: Really. 

Christine: Damn. 

Em: So eventually, executions did stop here altogether. And then everyone did a sigh of relief ’cause, “Oh, e-executions are done.” Nope, it just got sent over to bigger prisons. 

Christine: Nice. 

Em: So, uh, if you got executed, they just transferred you– or if you were going to be executed. Um, and eventually, it just became a smaller and smaller county jail, probably because it fucking was so small. But, uh, I will say that’s at least a change of pace for the stories I usually do because they start as small jails and then just like turn into these ma– mega complexes. 

Christine: Right. They like start adding and adding and adding. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. This time around they were like, “Okay, let’s just move people out.” And I think that’s because the conditions were getting so bad that they were kinda gradually pushing people out anyway. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: Um, so in 1977, the inmates actually sued the county for how bad the conditions were of this jail, which– How does that even happen? I don’t know. 

Christine: That’s wild. I mean, I’m sure you have to find– That feels like– I’m rewatching Better Call Saul. 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: That feels like a very Saul Goodman case to take on. 

Em: Love that show. 

Christine: Like, “I’ll defend you,” you know? 

Em: Um, five years later, a new jail was built nearby. Um, so this jail that I’ve been talking about, um, closed in the ‘80s. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: 'Cause it started as that first or– Williamsport County one. Then it got rebuilt after the fire to be the Lycoming County jail, and now it’s closed. Um, and it is– It’s been a few, uh, businesses, but none of them really like stayed very long. And then in 2001– 

Christine: I wonder what business you can make out of an old jail with 100 cells. Like a hotel, I guess. 

Em: I feel like if you’re doing something that you lean into the architecture, it’s not worth it. Like you can’t just have like a boutique store. 

Christine: Well, you’re right. I was gonna say a hotel, but then I was like,”Wait a minute. No, there’s not even like probably running w– Like there’s probably not even– There’s jail cells. Like there’s, there’s bars.“ 

Em: Yeah, if the conditions were that bad, you just basically hav– you have– Yeah, and you have to totally, um– If you’re gonna do things like running water and air conditioning and shit, like you have to totally renovate the place. 

Christine: Yeah, you gotta re– So why even do it? Yeah. I wonder what it– what business– I mean, clearly they didn’t work, so. 

Em: I was thinking what would be a very interesting take on it is like a library. Like a big– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: Like a big Gothic bookshop. 

Christine: Yeah, some other sort of federal building where it’s like, “Now we just have books in here.” Yeah. 

Em: Um, I have heard of prisons becoming schools – LOL. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. I have heard that as well ’cause the– And the structures kinda look the same sometimes– 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: –where it’s like,”Cool, we’re just all trapped in here.” 

Em: All the emo kids when they’re like, “My life is a prison,” it’s like– 

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] 

Em: –“Bitch, you’re in a prison.” 

Christine: [laughs] “I live in a prison.” 

Em: Um, and– But so anyway, it became a few things. I guess none of them panned out. But in 2001, it was sold to be-become the Cell Block Nightclub, uh, which I appreciate the homage to the original name or to the prison history. 

Christine: I do too. And I, I guess I had forgotten about the nightclub aspect, and now I’m thinking that’s actually the perfect thing to turn it into. 

Em: 'Cause you just turn the lights off. No one can see anything. 

Christine: Literally you turn lights off, and you make everyone sign a waiver ’cause if they bang their shins on all those bars like they’re gonna break something. 

Em: [laughs] That’s very true. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And I n– I guess the only running water you need is– I guess, well, there’s a– I’m sure there’s a kitchen in the back or something. So maybe a– They had to do some sort of cleanup if they wanted to be able to cook food and serve drinks in a, in a prison, I guess. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: But it was nothing compared to like making it a living space. 

Christine: Like with a bar and everything. 

Em: Yeah. Um, one of the things– I found this as like an, an interesting take from one of the sources I read that the nightclub– One of the ways that they wanted to make sure that they would guarantee not failing, uh, as a business like the– like some of the others before them had– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –they decided, well, instead of focusing on just one group of people, they were going to, quote, “aim for intergenerational clientele.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And so by– Even though, yes, it’s a nightclub, they wanted there to be a different type of drinking experience for ev-every group of people. So they have actually four bars under one roof. 

Christine: Ohh, okay. So you– It’s almost like a Choose Your Own Adventure type thing. 

Em: Yes. So they have the main nightclub, so that’s usually like the younger people. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Then for the older people, they have an Irish pub– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –which I thought was fun. They named it McMullin’s because the owner’s grandmother– Her last name was McMullin, uh– Or, she was an Irish woman whose last name wa-was McMullin, and she actually ran a true actual speakeasy. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And so they’re like reclaiming the name of like, “This is the actual bar you would have run–“ 

Christine: Oh, I love that. 

Em: “– if you didn’t have to run a speakeasy.” 

Christine: So cool. 

Em: Um, and then there is a space for live bands and live performances literally called The Gallows because it’s where the gallows used to be. 

Christine: Oh, yikes. 

Em: But also how fucking like emo punk rock is that? 

Christine: I was gonna say, but how badass. Like, “Oh, this weekend at The Gallows–“ 

Em: “The Gallows.” 

Christine: Like, “Headlining at The Gallows–” you know. 

Em: “Come to the raceway for The Gallows performance.” Yeah. 

Christine: And then, “It’s 5:00 p.m. We got a “Star-Spangled Banner” coming in hot as we’re– we gather around The Gallows.” [laughs] Stupid. 

Em: [laughs] It really warms you up for the rest of the night ’cause nothing else could be as slow, you know. 

Christine: Oh, certainly not, no. 

Em: And then the fourth one is– There’s a patio courtyard area, and it’s a tiki bar. So there’s a little bit of– 

Christine: Cute! 

Em: –everything for everyone. Um– 

Christine: What town is this again? I’m sorry. Pennsylvania– 

Em: This is Lycoming, Pennsylvania. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: And so, yeah, they’ve got a nightclub, Irish pub, tiki bar, and a live band area. 

Christine: Which one would you pick? 

Em: I love that question. It’s like, “Which Sex and the City character are you?” 

Christine: Yeah, it’s like Choose Your O– Oh, by the way, I got labelled as fucking– They did a poll for the Beach Too Sandy listener– listeners– 

Em: Love it. 

Christine: –and, by a landslide, guess who I got. 

Em: Carrie. 

Christine: No. 

Em: Mm, who? 

Christine: What’s the other one? 

Em: Not Sama– Not Samantha? 

Christine: No. 

Em: I mean, one of the other two that I feel really bad for you for. I, I– 

Christine: Well, which one? Say their names. 

Em: Well, I originally– I orig– 

Christine: 'Cause I don’t remember. 

Em: Oh, I originally guessed Charlotte, and you said no. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s what everyone said. 

Em: Well, so okay. 

Christine: Well, I don’t get it. I don’t know who she is. I just thought she was like the really like– 

Em: She’s the one with a lot of anxiety. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: I mean, they all kind of have anxiety, but– 

Christine: Okay. Alright. Okay. So yeah– I– You did mention that. That does fit. I thought it was just like she’s just like the very anti-gay one or something, and I was like, “I don’t want to be that one.” 

Em: No. She’s– I mean, she’s just, um– She’s– The irony, which I told you last time– I– We said this on Patreon, but I will say, um, I– Socially, I think you’re a Charlotte. I don’t, I don’t maybe agree with that in all the realms of your life [laughs], but, um– 

Christine: I don’t know what that means. I have no idea– 

Em: Well, well, Charlotte is like the prude of the group. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, that’s why I was annoyed, I think. ’Cause I’m like– I mean, I don’t know. Maybe I’m a prude. 

Em: Yeah, you’re no Charlotte 100% of the time. 

Christine: Okay. Got it, got it, got it. Okay, I’m glad you can confirm that ’cause maybe I– 

Em: Can confirm. 

Christine: I was worried I was having an identity crisis, and I was like a huge prude and I just didn’t know it. 

Em: Did you like go to Blaise, and you were like, “Am I a Charlotte?” 

Christine: I d– Yes! 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I was like, “Help me!” And then he was like, “Why are you wearing that f-fuzzy bucket hat and those weird glasses, you freak?” 

Em: [laughs] You said, “’cause I'm about to investigate something.” 

Christine: And I said, “That’s all I needed to know.” 

[laughs] 

Em: No, uh– 

Christine: And then I said, “Take a look at my contacts. I have purple eyes.” 

Em: “There’s something wily to me. Don’t you think?” 

Christine: That’s like me trying to like, uh, overcompensate for being called a Charlotte. I’m like, “No, look how crazy I am.” 

Em: You’re like, “No, I’m a Partner in Crime. I’m a Time Travel Partner in Crime.” 

Christine: “Yeah, come on.” 

Em: Um, “I-Inspector Gadget very much.” I– As a third party who knows you, you are not a Charlotte all the time. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: But I do think in social spaces, um, you have the– 

Christine: That so answers it. 

Em: –the initial, the initial freak-outs that she does. 

Christine: Okay, okay. That, that helps so much. Thank you. Because all of sudden, I just saw everyone going, “Oh, she’s obviously a Charlotte.There’s no question.” And I was like, “What does it mean? What does it mean?” Um, so thank you. That clears it up for me. ’Cause yes,I’m highly anxious in most scenarios. So yes, that does work. 

Em: A– You also need a lot of explanation for a lot of things that other people don’t, and I th– And Charlotte does that too where she’s like, “Explain th– I don’t understand. I don’t understand.” And I feel like– 

Christine: Oh, so I’m just stupid. 

Em: Not stupid. I think you– 

Christine: [laughs] I’m just kidding. 

Em: [chuckles] No, I– 

Christine: Em knows I have a complex about being considered stupid, so I was gonna put you on the spot and be like, “Oh, so you think I’m stupid?” 

Em: And I went, “No, that’s not what I think.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And I don’t think Charlotte was stupid. She was actually known to be like– I think she was an Ivy Leaguer. It's just like she was just, um– Like she’s like also from like a, like a, a rich family, and I think because she’s so like prim and proper, the, the wiles of the sex world scare her. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: 'Cause she’s like– She’s very, um, conservative.She’s the most conservative of the group. 

Christine: That– I know. That’s what makes me annoyed. 

Em: Well, I mean she– 

Christine: I mean, listen, if the p– the people have spoken, okay. I’m not gonna be like, “I’m fighting ba–“ If that’s what I am, that’s what I am. I don’t– I– Maybe I just have to watch the show and figure it out. 

Em: She’s– No, she just gets– She just doesn’t understand things she hasn’t experienced, and they– I think they wrote her that way though so that way they have to explain to the audience. I think she’s the audience’s confusion of things. 

Christine: Great. 

Em: I don’t know. I’ve– I– Good luck. 

Christine: Listen, it’s not your fault. I– Apparently, this is how I live my life, so. This is how I pres– 

Em: [laughs] I mean, you are wearing a pearl necklace which is like one of her staples, so. 

Christine: Yeah, which is also giving me hives, and I’ve also saved the return sticker so I can bring it back to Target. 

Em: Is it s– 

Christine: So I don’t think that that’s a very Charlotte move. Uh, she probably has real ones. 

Em: Certainly not. She would, she would never go to a Target. 

Christine: I can’t be trusted with real jewelry. 

Em: Well, uh– Oh, so– Sorry. To answer your question on which of the four bars I would be– 

Christine: Yes, please. 

Em: I like to think, um, if someone’s– I think my identity is– Mm… My identity– I feel like people would assume I’m more nightclub energy. I don’t know. W-what energy do you think I am? Do you think I’m nightc–? 

Christine: Can y– So there’s an Irish pub, live music, nightclub, and a tiki bar? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I would guess tiki bar for you. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: But that’s also because I feel like you’ve been to a lot recently, and there’ve been a few opening near you, so it must, must– might just be like, um, the, the– 

Em: I am– They are, they are surrounding me. 

Christine: –proximity effect. 

Em: I’m not surrounding them, I think. Like– 

Christine: I think it’s more of a proximity effect. And then you told me you like coconut and pineapple recently, so that kind of played into it. 

Em: I do. There’s– 

Christine: But I think energy-wise you strike me as nightclub energy. 

Em: I think everyone would say– Not every– I think a lot of people would say that, but, um, I aspire to have Irish pub energy. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: But not like in a “I want to get fucked up” Irish guy. More like “I sit in the corner of an Irish pub and eat my shepherd’s pie, and everyone leaves me alone.” 

Christine: Right, and you’re like in the, in the aesthetic of the Irish pub. Yeah, I get you. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like, like, like have you been to Lafitte’s Pub in– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like that kind of– Yeah, an old-ass haunted Irish pub. That’s where I want to be too. 

Em: Yes. Uh, I think, I think– 

Christine: I think I would be there with you. 

Em: Thank you. I– But I do think you give Gallows energy, the n– the, uh– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –the live show. 

Christine: Finally, a label I’ll– I like. Um– 

Em: You’re like if, if Charlotte took a bunch of drugs and went to The Gallows. Like that would be quite an episode. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: Okay. I mean, listen, say no more. Here I come. 

Em: I, I mean– But I also think that’s because I associate you with live shows. 

Christine: Um, oh, that makes sense. And I do go to a lot of live like concerts, so maybe, maybe– I think I would probably go to the outdoor thing, and then I’d be like, “I’m hot and tired. I wanna go sit inside with Em and eat a, a shepherd’s pie.” Yeah. 

Em: A shepherd’s pie. Yeah. Okay, good to know. Um, in the bedroom, which are you? No, I’m just– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] In bed– No, let’s just add– “Eat a shepherd’s pie… in bed.” 

Em: Ah! 

Christine: Like you do with a fortune cookie. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah, no, I, I want to eat a lot of pineapple and coconut in bed. 

Christine: Oh, we could just add “in The Gallows.” That’s a fun twist. 

Em: “In the gallows.” Now, that’s– Now, that's something else. 

Christine: [singing to chorus of “In the Navy” by the Village People] ♪ In The Gallows, I’m watching a live band / In The Gallows, please take my hand / In The Gallows– ♪ 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: ♪ –but it’s really hot out here / In The Gallows, I wanna go eat a shepherd’s pie ♪♪ 

Em: [presses applause sound effect on soundboard] 

Christine: [laughs] Thank you, thank you, thank you. This has been live at The Gallows. Now everybody, take off your hats and salute. Put your hands on your heart. 

Em: [applause sound effect on soundboard] 

Christine: Let’s sing to, uh– Oh, let’s release the eagles. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Okay. We’re starting “The Star-Spangled Banner.” 

Em: Okay. I, I’m just gonna pick one. [presses random button on soundboard] 

[intro to generic rock music with electric guitar and drums] 

Christine: There we go. That’s a rock show. 

Em: What was it? What was the sound? 

[rock music continues] 

Christine: It’s still going. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: [chanting] ♪ In, in the gallows / In, in the gallows / Oh, yeah! / In the gallows / In, in the ga– ♪♪ 

[music cuts out] 

Em: Um, I didn’t know– That– I– That was perfectly timed. I have– I’ve never played that one in my entire life. 

Christine: That one never stops. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: It goes on forever. 

Em: Good to know. [laughs] I wish I did that– 

Christine: So I’m super glad– 

Em: –during your whole song set you just did. 

Christine: Yeah, you know what? 

Em: That would have been useful. 

Christine: Probably. 

Em: Okay. 

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Em: Anyway, so those are the four. And, uh, of course, this place is haunted. So of the ghosts here, the most common character we hear about is a former inmate named William Hummel. Um, apparently, there’s other ghosts here, like the, the woman who was– They assume it’s the woman who was hanged here. Um, they hear her crying and screaming sometimes. Um, y– Casual stuff. 

Christine: You know. 

Em: But the, the main ghost is definitely William. So here’s the story of William. He was born 1848. Uh, he never learned to read or write, which does come up later. 

Christine: I love that that’s the first fucking thing in his bio. 

Em: [laughs] “He was born in the 1840s, and he’s an illiterate dummy.” Um– 

Christine: “He can’t read a fucking book.” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: So let’s, let’s talk about it. 

Em: So he never learns to read or write. Um, I don’t know how common that was in 1840s. 

Christine: I imagine that’s probably a norm– like a relatively normal th– It’s not like probably a shocking thing to anybody. 

Em: Yeah, it was certainly not. It was probably less surprising than it is today– 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: –I’m, I’m gonna assume. At 15, he fought in the Civil War, uh, and then he- 

Christine: Same. That’s also less shocking back then. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: At 15, he fought in a civil war. Yeah. 

Em: And I, I don’t know what side he was on. I don’t know. It was Pennsylvania. I– The end. Um, he ended up coming back. He settled in Montgomery, and– which is Pennsylvania. And apparently, the area at the time– This is so badass. I don’t know why they changed it to Montgomery. It was called Black Hole Valley. Are you kidding me? 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Are you fucking kidding me? 

Christine: That sounds like the basement of the nightclub. 

Em: It does. [laughs] 

Christine: Like that sounds like another room. Like, like choice five that you o– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –that’s off-menu. 

Em: “I’m in the Black Hole Valley in The Gallows.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah. The BHV – that sounds like a disease. So maybe not that. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But the, but the– [laughs] If you say it all at once, it sounds cool. 

Em: So, uh, he was married four times. Um, and the first one– So the first three, they say like, “Oh, they just– It just didn’t work out, and he dumped them or something.” But one source did say the first one disappeared under mysterious circumstances, so that– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Uh-oh. I don’t know what that– I, I don’t know what it means, but one of them maybe disappeared under mysterious circumstances. The other two– They just broke it off. It sounds like that was his doing, not theirs. I’m not totally sure. Um, and then the last one, his fourth wife, was a young widow with three kids. And they got married, and a week later, he literally axe-murders them. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: A week in. And, uh, the neighbors only– I mean, they only realize this because the neighbors realize that she hasn’t been around for a while. Which– Like a while? A week. Like I like how they were like, “Mm, it’s been seven days since she’s moved here, and I haven’t seen her.” 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: But again, it was a small town, and everyone was probably nosy ’cause there was nothing else to do in the town before wifi. And they were like, “Uh, I haven’t seen her walk past my window in seven days. Let’s organize a search party.” And they did. 

Christine: Yeah, I was really like tr– I was like, “Betty and I were marking like what different colored stockings she was wearing ’cause we wanted to gossip about it at tea.“ 

Em: Yeah. “Is she a harlot? Like what’s the vibe?” 

Christine: “I mean, she’s certainly a harlot. I think we can all agree.” 

Em: [laughs] And so– Well, so they organize a search party, and– 

Christine: “I’m a Charlotte. She’s a harlot.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Sorry. [laughs] My bad. 

Em: That’s beautiful. I don’t know– You know what? The writers of Sex and the City are kicking and screaming that they never wrote an episode called “Charlotte the Harlot.” 

Christine: They probably did. I– [laughs] And it’s just– At the end, you find out it was all a dream. 

Em: [laughs] And she woke up in her country club with her pearl necklace– 

Christine: And said, “Phew!” 

Em: –and all of her money was there. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: She woke up on her fainting couch and was like, “Oh my. That was close. Close one.” 

Em: Um, and so, uh– That was, that was beautiful. Charlotte the harlot is something else. 

Christine: Thank you so much. 

Em: They organize a search party. It does work out that they were so nosy because they were like, “Where the fuck is this girl?” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And also maybe they were like– She had like three kids. 

Christine: I– Yeah. 

Em: Maybe they were like, “Oh god, we haven’t heard them recently.” 

Christine: Y– Right. And I'm not giving– I feel like I’m not giving them enough credit. I’m sure they were concerned about this woman, not just looking for the colors of her stockings. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But yes, I, uh, I would, I would worry if I were them. 

Em: Um, well, they end up doing a search party. I guess they didn’t have to look that far ’cause it seems like they were just on like the next-door neighbor’s property. Um, but they found her and the– two of her three– the two older kids’ bodies under a h– 

Christine: Oh god. 

Em: –under a hay stack on the nearby farm. 

Christine: Jesus. They’re always doing it under a haystack, these killers. 

Em: Which like the worst material to hide a body– 

Christine: I know. 

Em: – ’cause like hay is gonna like wilt so quickly. 

Christine: Well, and then, and the b– and the bugs can still get in like– Eugh. 

Em: And the moisture? Like it’s just gonna bleed through. I mean, literally bleed through. 

Christine: So nasty. 

Em: Like it’s– You’re gonna notice. 

Christine: But, I guess you use hay, like straw for drying stuff out. So maybe it’s like you’re drying– 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: I don’t– I mean, I don’t know. What the fuck do I know? Look at me. Do I look like I know anything about fucking straw and hay? 

Em: Look at you. Partner in Crime. Partner in Time Crime Traveler. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: Um, so they end up finding them. Maybe like– Honestly, the– Like when he killed them, he was like “No one’s gonna suspect that they’re gone for a long time.” 

Christine: Like, “Maybe I have time.” 

Em: “That’ll give me time to dry them out in the hay and then move them.” 

Christine: Right. 

Em: But his neighbors were like, “It’s been seven days, and we’re gonna find her body/.” 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: They find her and her two oldest kids. Hummel is immediately arrested, and while locked up, he tells the sheriff named Sheriff Gamble– Um, they– He says, “Do you believe in ghosts?” And he was like, “Uh, I guess?” First of all, why are they talking to each other? Why are they just making small talk? I don’t understand. But he was like, “Oh, do you believe in ghosts?” And the sheriff goes, “Uh, yeah. Maybe.” And then William Hummel goes, “Oh, good. Because, um, my wife’s spirit came to me last night, and she wants to, um– She wants me to write a letter for her. Uh, but also I can’t write, so I need you to just write what I say down. And you would be writing her testimony in favor of me when I– when the trial happens.” 

Christine: Okay, okay. So he’s saying, “Oh, she came to me. She wants to drop all the charges from the afterlife.” 

Em: Yes. Exactly. 

Christine: Okay, got it. 

Em: It’s like, “She actually– Uh, I’m innocent, and she wants to be, um– She wants to, to confirm that for you.” 

Christine: Right, and “Here’s her manifesto. Write it down please.” Yeah. Okay. 

Em: It— “Also I can’t write down my own fucking manifesto where I’m lying on behalf of my dead wife.” 

Christine: “Right, and she can’t write it ’cause, you know, I axe-murdered her. So, uh, why don’t you write it instead? 'Cause you have nothing better to do, Sheriff.” 

Em: So, so he starts talking, uh, just saying what apparently the– his ghost wife told him when he– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –when she came to visit his cell that night. And, uh, this later became known in court as the “Spirit Letter.” 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: And so Hummel dictates the Spirit Letter, uh, and Sheriff Gamble writes it down, which I feel like he on-only wrote it down so he could take it to the bar the next day and go, “This is the dumbest thing that’s happened to me at work.” 

Christine: Okay, but which of the b– Which bar? 

Em: Certainly The Gallows. 

Christine: Okay, there’s no doubt, right. Right? Unless it was like the corner of the pub, the Irish pub, and they were like, “Listen to this.” 

Em: Actually, this feels like an Irish pub th– 

Christine: Doesn't it? 

Em: I feel like a, like a police bar and an Irish pub are kind of in, in the– 

Christine: Yeah, like in a corner– 

Em: In a Venn diagram together. 

Christine: Like they get their– Yeah, they get their usual spot and all that. Yeah. 

Em: Um, okay. So it’s basically a testimony from his wife’s ghost, claiming his innocence. The spirit claims that, uh, her husband absolutely was not involved in the murder. It was actually a man named Harry Smith. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And he was from a neighboring town, and he killed the family for $200. And, uh, the– And then Hummel was saying, “Oh, and my s– my wife also told me, um, that Harry killed them with an axe that he bought on November 18.” But they were murdered on November 16. So he got his own day he murdered his family wrong. And– 

Christine: Yikes. Okay, and also just the thought like, “Oh, now that’s she in the afterlife, she knows where and when he made this purchase with his debit card.” 

Em: Ex– [laughs] Exactly. 

Christine: Like why would that even be relevant to her in the afterlife after being killed? But whatever. 

Em: I’m su– Like it was one of those things where he was clearly– 

Christine: “He went to the Menards on–“ 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: “–Culver Boulevard.” Like what are you talking about? 

Em: “He went to Food Lion.” 

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] 

Em: “He went into the back.” 

Christine: “He was hu– He needed a snack.” 

Em: “He talked to Jerry in butcher’s. And he–“ 

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] What the fuck? 

Em: Like it’s that thing where like when you’re lying you like come up with– you have way too much information. 

Christine: Too specific. Yes, precisely. 

Em: Like you’re trying so hard to prove that– 

Christine: You’re like, “Oh, I can keep saying things.” 

Em: Yeah, and so he– She– He ended up saying that “She knows everything about him, including the fact that he bought the weapon two days after I was already dead.” Okay. 

Christine: Right. Good job. 

Em: Um, then the l– At some point, I think he got his own like wires crossed, and now he was talking as if the spirit speaking to him was Harry and not his actual wife. So now he’s speaking like– 

Christine: Oh, oh. So Harry’s also there? Okay. 

Em: So it’s so confusing because like Harry, who alle– who didn’t, but allegedly killed the family– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –who’s alive– Why is his spirit now also– 

Christine: Okay, I was gonna say, he’s not dead, right? Okay. 

Em: No. He’s just– I don’t even know if he’s a real fucking person. Like it– 

Christine: Right, we don’t even– [laughs] 

Em: He might be– 

Christine: With a name like Harry Smith? 

Em: Yeah. Um, but he just starts speaking as if he is– honestly like he’s fucking the killer. It’s almost like– 

Christine: I see. 

Em: –he forgot that he was like playing a character of his wife and he just started confessing. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: It’s almost like he started confessing. 

Christine: But he’sz like, “But it’s not me. It’s Harry.” 

Em: And then he was like, “Oh, that, that wasn’t me confessing anything that I did. That was me confessing on behalf of the killer – who is alive and also actually doesn’t maybe exist.” 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Do you know what I mean? This makes so– It’s so hard to follow. 

Christine: Yeah. No, I mean, it is, but like I get it. But like in real life, I’m like, “You’re an idiot.” 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: To– Not to you. This guy. But yes, um. 

Em: This is a quote he literally said, and then I’m sure the cop was like, “Are you confessing to this fucking murder?” 

Christine: Right. Like– 

Em: And he went, “No, no, no. This is a whole other ghost that actually also visited me.” 

Christine: [laughs] This is– “And he’s alive, and he’s very much real.” 

Em: Yeah. “And he got the weapon two days ago.” Um, he’s– 

Christine: “From Menard’s.” “Yeah, we know.” 

Em: This is a, this is a quote from him speaking on behalf of somebody allegedly. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: “I liked the baby but was afraid that people might hear her cry while I was driving away, so I knocked it in the head and killed it and took it and buried it.” 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: And then he went, “Oh, that wasn’t me, by the way. That was not my wife also but a different ghost who’s not a ghost.” 

Christine: And he “liked the baby”? Come on. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: That's so twisted. 

Em: Well, he was like, “I, I didn’t want to kill the baby, but I was afraid she’d cry while I was murdering.” 

Christine: But like, “Oops! I did anyway.” 

Em: “So then I had to kill her. It’s not my fault that I had to kill her.” 

Christine: That’s insane. 

Em: “Also I didn’t kill her!” Like thi– It– This guy’s nutso. 

Christine: “But I’m Harry, remember?” 

Em: Right. [laughs] Right. 

Christine: What? 

Em: Um, so then nine days later after this whole Spirit Letter was dictated for hi– or translated– transcribed for him, uh, William Hummel then goes to the sheriff again and says, “I actually need you to add more information to the letter.” 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: And Gamble’s like, “By all means.” 

Christine: Yeah, keep going, baby. 

Em: Like, “The guys at the bar had a great time last time. Let’s see where this takes us.” 

Christine: “Yeah, we’ll add your amendments. Go ahead.” 

Em: And he said, “Well, um, the spirit actually knows where the baby’s body is hidden.” 

Christine: Oy vey. 

Em: “Because you only found my wife and two step-kids.” 

Christine: Oh no! So he’s like, “How do I get them to find the other body? Oh, I know. The ghost of Harry will tell them through me.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Oh, he’s so dumb. Okay. 

Em: He said with this newfound intel, uh, it would clear him since, uh, knowing the bo– the location of a body is something only the actual killer would know. And it’s like, “Yeah, bro. You know ’cause you are the actual killer.” 

Christine: What in the fuck? 

Em: But he was like, “Oh, if I tell you–“ 

Christine: He’s so dumb. 

Em: –“and it’s on behalf of somebody else, then I’ll obviously be innocent.” 

Christine: “Then you can’t blame me for it.” 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: “But like why would I know it?” 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: “Well, ’cause someone just told me. It’s not my fault.” 

Em: And again, about information being very specific, this is what he said: You– Tell me if this is like not obviously someone who knows the exact location of a body. 

Christine: Yeah, I wonder, I wonder what I’ll think, but go ahead and tell me. 

Em: “You will find the body in the Hummel’s barn, six feet from the southeast door, one foot behind the horse, and one and a half from the south wall, buried with its face down, covered over with flat stones taken from the wall.” 

Christine: God damn! 

Em: God damn, but also isn’t that like– That’s not a guess. Thats– 

Christine: No! 

Em: That’s a full knowle– knowledgeable admission. 

Christine: That– Like if you were getting that information via Ouija board, that would take 15 minutes to type out, to like write out. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Like what do you mean “a ghost told you that”? 

Em: And if you miss one letter, you gotta start all over again. 

Christine: Oh my gosh. You gotta figure out where the spaces are. That’s insane. I’m sorry. To– And then they put the baby face down and like specified that? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yikes. 

Em: So then the sheriff went to that location, found the baby’s body in exactly that spot, and then he went back to the jail and was like, “We found the body.” And then William Hummel was like, “Yay! The spirit was right.” Like, “Now I’m–“ 

Christine: “I can’t believe it. I’m a real psychic medium.” 

Em: "I'm a psychic medium, so now I already have job security when I get out of here.” 

Christine: “Thank goodness.” 

Em: “And also I’m getting out of here. Yay!” And they were like– 

Christine: “And also I’m growing spiritually like you would not believe.” Oh my god. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: This fucking guy. 

Em: And so, uh– Uh-oh! Sorry, William. You read the room wrong. He was immediately pronounced guilty after like two minutes– 

Christine: Thank you. 

Em: –or something from the jury. Uh, and then he was also ultimately hanged. His last meal, fun fact, was steak and eggs with toast and coffee. 

Christine: Okay, at least that’s normal. Like I feel like half the time we talk about a last meal, it’s like– 

Em: It’s like a bite of an upside-down apple, and that’s it. 

Christine: Literally. It’s like– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: It’s, it’s a, a mu– a mini muffin from the ja– prison cafeteria. Like, really? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Can’t we be a little more creative? 

Em: Um, after he was hanged, he was buried in the cornfield that belonged to the neighbor– This is like such a weird– I don’t– The neighbor approved of this, by the way. But– 

Christine: [laughs] That would be wild if they didn’t. But go ahead. 

Em: [laughs] Oh, right. Yeah. But he was buried in the cornfield that belonged to his neighbor, but this is the same neighbor whose haystacks he buried his family under. Like when, like when William killed these people and then hid them under haystacks– 

Christine: Oh, oh, oh! So– ’Cause he n– He buried them on the neighbor’s property. 

Em: Yeah. So the neighbor found out, “Oh, you buried your family under my haystacks?” 

Christine: What? 

Em: “And now you’re dead?” 

Christine: “So like let’s just add the rest of your f– or let’s add you to the pile?” 

Em: I wonder if he thought it was like some sort of like poetic justice of like– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –“Oh, you thought the family would never be found, but they were. Now your body’s stuck here.” Like I– That’s all I can think of. 

Christine: That’s super weird. I wonder why– Yeah, that– It’s very strange. 

Em: Um, so immediately after he was buried though, people started hearing voices and footsteps back at the jail that he was, uh, incarcerated in. 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: To a point– I mean, like the voices and footsteps were so fucking loud and all the time that people were not even rumoring anymore. They were like, “What if he’s like not dead? Like what if he’s actually in his cell?” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: People were freaking out that like h– it was so obviously the sounds. 

Christine: Were there people in his cell also? 

Em: No. 

Christine: Oh, it was empty? 

Em: They were just like, “Something’s going on over there that’s o–“ 

Christine: [sucks in air through teeth] Creepy. 

Em: Like, “He’s obviously over there.” Even though everyone– hundreds of people watched him die. 

Christine: Well– And I’ll be honest too. Like I feel like in that situation, you, as a person who lives in this prison, would know the sound of mice. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: You would know the sound of people fucking with you or scratching or snoring or whatever. So like if you’re like, “No, I swear to god. I hear that guy that was– used to be there.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like I would believe you. 

Em: Not only were the inmates freaked out, but the peo– like the correctional officers were freaked out. 

Christine: Yikes 

Em: And like even though they couldn’t see him, they were like, “I fucking hear something so clear.” And it f– It started like getting around town, and it got so many people freaked out– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: – that they literally, um, like– What’s the right word? Not– They– After they dug him out, they interred– Wait, no. 

Christine: Oh, int– Wait. 

Em: They dug him up. 

Christine: Oh, they, uh, exhumed the body. 

Em: Exhumed, exhumed. They literally exhumed his body just to make sure his body was underground because the sounds were so scary. 

Christine: They were like, “Maybe he fucking–“ What? And then he went– He walked right back into his prison cell? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: He’s like, “I’m out! So I know what to do. I’ll go back to jail.” 

Em: No, he– I mean, it was– Apparently, Like there’s actually a– There was a newspaper article that was saying like by candlelight or by lantern, they like– It was literally like out of a horror movie. 

Christine: Ew! 

Em: And they’re like, “We re-dug his body. 30 or 40 people literally looked at his dead body, and all confirmed with each other like, ‘Yes, do you see the dead body? I see the dead body.’” And then they just put him back in the ground. 

Christine: Jesus. 

Em: But there were sounds that crazy for a long time in the jail. Um, of course, that section of the prison is now The Gallows. 

Christine: Ah, I see. I see. 

Em: Which is why it’s called The Gallows, and it’s where the stage is in the nightclub. Um– 

Christine: [gasps] Of course. 

Em: Or in the live show– It’s where the– The stage where the live bands perform. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Um, now as a club, people still report hearing voices and footsteps here. People also hear whistling from the basement which is where death row was. 

Christine: Mm. Oh, cute. 

Em: And– 

Christine: That’s a good combo – whistling from death row. 

Em: And when peo– Whistling from death row at 3 a.m. 

Christine: Forget it. 

Em: And when people go down there, they feel an evil dark presence. The staff often refuse to go down there by themselves, and the public is not allowed. And paranormal investigators aren’t allowed down there either. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Um, people also see black mists downstairs. Shadow figures dart around the corners, and kids say that they see a man there that nobody else can see. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Uh, apparently, one little boy specifically– There was like– You can rent out rooms for events. And he was like sitting in the corner, laughing and playing with someone, and no one was there. And he was like, “Oh, I was playing with the man.” Forget it. 

Christine: Eugh! Of course it’s a man, not like the little boy. 

Em: Nope. 

Christine: The full-grown man. 

Em: Um, people feel cold spots, something touching them. People hear, like I said, a crying and screaming from a woman, and they think that’s the last woman hanged in Pennsylvania. Sometimes people see items moving on their own. People hear conversations between several people, and nobody’s there. So they just hear a whole conversation happening. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Apparently, glasses in the bar are found smashed on the ground. And the manager previously has looked through security cam footage to see what happened– 

Christine: Ew! 

Em: –and they will fly themselves off the counter and smash onto the ground. 

Christine: That’s like what you see on Paranormal Caught on Camera. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: One of my fave like late night, just to have it in the background, shows. 

Em: Of course. 

Christine: And I feel like that’s the exact type of footage. Like a bar in Pennsylvania, and you see the glasses flying off. 

Em: Uh, it, it’s a– 

Christine: Classic. 

Em: So scary. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, the thing that is the scariest to me – this is the last one I, I end on – is that, uh, the barstools will all fall to the floor on their own. And there was one time where like– I guess it was closing time, and they were putting the barstools up on the counters, and every single barstool fell off at the same time. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Like off– Like flew off the counter by itself. 

Christine: It w– Okay. So then I wonder what that i– 

Em: Off a 30 yard bar. 

Christine: Yeah, I wonder what that is then. And they– Was it like– 

Em: So a 90 foot bar. 

Christine: Like a wave of them? Or was it like they literally all just like scooched out? 

Em: I think they all like scooched violently. 

Christine: I wonder what that could m– Like– 

Em: Or tipped violently. 

Christine: Mm! Hm. 

Em: Um, whatever it is, I– I’m so glad I was never fucking there for it. 

Christine: Yeah. That sounds like a mess. 

Em: I would have assumed it was an earthquake. I would have been like, “Obviously, the building just fucking shook.” 

Christine: I would have assumed I put the b-bar, uh, barstools up wrong– incorrectly. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I’d have been like, “Uh, that– Don’t worry. I’m– I got it handled.” 

Em: Yeah. Um, anyway, at the Cell Block Nightclub, uh, they say that paranormal investigators [spooky voice] never leave empty-handed. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Mwa-ha-ha! And that’s– 

Christine: I– That sounds– I don’t know about that. 

Em: That’s the Cell Block Nightclub. 

Christine: That was good. I don’t know if I would want to leave handed with anything. 

Em: I, I don’t know if I would want to enter. 

Christine: Uh, good point. Valid point. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, I imagine that if we’re ever in that area, you won’t have the choice. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: 'Cause I will make you go with me. Cell Block Nightclub. I want to see where this place– this Ly– What’s it called? Ly-something? Lyconia? 

Em: Uh, Lycoming. Lycoming. 

Christine: Lycoming. Okay, I’m gonna find out how far this is. 

Em: L-Y-coming. 

Christine: This is officially only seven and a half hours from me. [laughs] 

Em: So a day trip. 

Christine: Easy peasy. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah, you’ll be there by nightfall. 

Christine: Yeah, I’ll be there by nightfall. Um, I’ll be at The Gallows by nightfall, you know. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Um, wow. Good story, Em. That was very Halloweeny. 

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Christine: Um, I’m, I’m, I’m worried. 

Em: Why? 

Christine: Because I did these notes, uh, over the– I did them over the last couple days, and I, I feel like I know the story really well. But it’s been forever since I’ve like written out my own notes from like scratch completely. And I’m just– I keep worrying I’m gonna like forget something important. 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: Um, but I think I’m good to go. I think I’m good to go. Uh, I’m excited because when I realized we were doing the Halloween episode today, I was like, “Uh-oh, I’m gonna put my part two–“ Remember how I had a part one last time? 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: So this is the first time we’re skipping part two. I’m so sorry, but I wanted a Halloween story for the Halloween episode. Right? So like– 

Em: That’s so silly. Okay, great. Let’s do it. 

Christine: I know, but I just like– I was like, “Well, that stinks if you’re like, ‘I just wanna listen to the Halloween episode,’ and then you can’t listen to the crime story because like you haven’t heard part one.” So. 

Em: Right, I gotcha. 

Christine: Anyway, uh, so I do apologize, everyone. But that– We will get to part two next week. I promise I didn’t forget, even though I can understand why you might think that. Um, I’m also taking off my disguise because it’s starting to get really hot, and I also feel weird telling a murder story in that outfit. Um, so– 

Em: Okay. Well, w– I’m, I’m still going to keep my wig on, but I do want to adjust it ’cause if I’m going to wear it, it should– 

Christine: Oh, please. By all means. 

Em: –it should look beautiful, and it’s, it’s very easily obviously slipping off of my head. 

Christine: By all means. 

Em: Hang on. Please hold. [takes headphones and wig off] 

Christine: Um– Fantastic. 

Em: Listen to some music while I do this. 

[rock music from soundboard plays while Em fixes their wig] 

Christine: [laughs] No. [singing] ♪ In The Gallows / Oh, in The Gallows / We’re in The Gallows / We’re in The Gallows / It’s All Hallows’ Eve / In The Gallows / It’s All Hallows’ Eve / In The Gallows / Oh, yeah! Let’s rock it out / Rock it out / Rock it out / Whoo! Ow! / Oh, yeah! Let’s rock it out / Rock it out / We’re in The Gallows / We’re in The Gallows on All Hallows’ Eve! / Eve! / Here we go! / Please turn it off / I can’t– ♪ 

[music cuts out as Em finishes fixing their wig and puts their headphones back on] 

Christine: ♪ –stand it ♪♪ Thank you. 

Em: We’re done. 

Christine: Thank Christ. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I realized that “gallows” and “hallows” rhymed so I had a little thing goin’ there. 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: Oh, now you d– 

Em: Gallows and hallows from Charlotte the harlot. 

Christine: [laughs] Now you really look like Father Time. 

Em: I know. I have to– I’m definitely gonna have to figure this out before our show. 

Christine: We’re gonna have to put some– I, I don’t know, man. I’m– It’s gonna be weird seeing you as a, a flamboyantly dressed woman in a few days. I can’t really wrap my head around it, but. 

Em: That was supposed to be the surprise. 

Christine: It– I mean, trust me. No matter what– You could prep f– every day until then, and it’ll still be a surprise. So, um– 

Em: Okay, well I feel very va-va-voom all of a sudden, so. 

Christine: Okay, excellent. Um– 

Em: Uh, f– Right in time for a horrible, horrible story. But if you– if anyone gets a little too bummed out, just look at my face and you certainly won’t feel dis– Well, maybe you’ll feel disgusted. I don’t know. 

Christine: I’ll at least be distra– I won’t be disgusted. Nothing you could do would ever disgust me, Em. Um, that is not a challenge, by the way. [laughs] Uh, okay. Are you ready for the story of the Trick-or-Treat Murder from 1957? 

Em: I sure am.

Christine’s Story – The Trick-Or-Treat Murder of Peter Fabiano

Christine: Alright. So it’s Halloween night, 1957. Peter Fabiano, a well-known hairdresser in the San Fernando Valley, was home with his wife, Betty Fabiano, after a long night of handing out candy to innocent little trick-or-treaters.

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: They head to bed. What time do you– What time in your mind does trick-or-treating end? 

Em: Oh– 

Christine: By the way, can I go get a glass of wine? 

Em: Yes! 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Wow, we’re both having so much fun today. 

Christine: Oh my god, I’m just like f– 

Em: Okay, you have wine. 

Christine: –really feeling myself. 

Em: I let my hair down. I think it’s in the back of my throat. [mimics putting their finger in mouth as if to find a hair, making a gagging sound] 

Christine: [laughs] Gross! 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Okay, I can’t hear you. One moment. [takes off headphones and goes offscreen] 

Em: Okay. Let’s get back to– Well, I was going to play the music and sing along, but I actually can’t hear the sound– the songs that play on my soundboard. So I don’t know how the music sounds. So let’s play the music, and I’ll make a sound– Here. 

[rock music from soundboard plays] 

Em: [singing] ♪ Just playing the music ♪ 

Christine: [sits back down and puts headphones on] Oh god, it’s back! 

Em: ♪ Just playing the songs ♪♪ I actually– I– 

[music cuts out] 

Em: I can’t hear the beat. So I was– 

Christine: Oh, you don’t even hear it? 

Em: I was just guessing. D– Was I– 

Christine: Oh. I wish I could– 

Em: Was I on, was I on time? Was I on beat? 

Christine: Huh? What was that? 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I swear, it keeps cutting out. So let’s move on. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, anyway, what time would you say is like– Okay, like say– Now that you’re a homeowner, Em– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –when, when would you say is the time to be like, “Okay, closing o– turning off the porch light–” 

Em: Bring the cauldron in. 

Christine: “Bring the cauldron in”? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like, “Shutting the shutters. We’re done. Closing up shop.” 

Em: So interesting because, um, I– [sighs] We’ve talked about this– I think we talked this– about this for our last Halloween episode maybe. But when I went trick-or-treating, I always went out like weirdly early or, um– I don’t know what the right time is, so I guess I expect trick-or-treaters around– to start around 5 or whenever the sun sets. I’ll say that – whenever the sun sets. And I would think it ends– I would be surprised after 10 at the latest, but maybe 9, it starts dying down. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. That’s kind of what I think. I feel like different neighborhoods have different times. I don’t know if you’ve– 

Em: By 11 o’clock, if someone’s knocking on my door, it’s, it’s a robber again in my head. 

Christine: Excellent. Because the occurrence of this crime is 11:30 p.m. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And that definitely comes into play because it is, uh– I, I listened to, um– Actually, I watched on YouTube, which was delightful. Um, I never really watch podcasts on YouTube, so it was kind of fun. But I watched Murder with My Husband, and she– It’s one of the only podcasts that have covered this. And she kept saying, um, like they stole this holiday to commit this– 

Em: Oh, I see. 

Christine: Like they took advantage of this holiday by saying like, “Oh, they’ll open the door, you know, because they think it’s trick-or-treaters.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And it’s so true. Like it feels like a cheat code, you know? Like– 

Em: It is. It’s, um– Yeah, I totally get what you’re– 

Christine: It’s not f– It– That’s not– You– It feels like– That’s not– That’s– You know, that’s not how it works. You can’t sully the good name of Halloween– 

Em: No. 

Christine: –by ringing the doorbell and knowing they’ll answer the door just so you can [clicks tongue]. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: So it was 11:30 p.m., and, uh, they were in bed already. Um, like you said, it’s way past trick-or-treating hour. There had been nobody there for a long time. And then the doorbell rang. So my next question, which I think I now know the answer to, is would you answer? 

Em: No. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, thank god for like Ring doorbells and shit like that. 

Christine: I know nowadays– Yeah. Nowadays, you can definitely check, but here’s what I’ll say: even if they did have a peephole, he most likely would have opened the door. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Because Peter goes downstairs. He’s annoyed. He’s like, “God– Like who could be– 

Em: “These goddamn kids!” 

Christine: “These kids are just up– Like come on, seriously? Like it’s way too late. Can’t they see the lights are all off?” And he sees someone in a Halloween mask, and so he thinks, “Okay. Well, fine. I’ll give him the rest of our candy.” 

Em: Ugh, literally The Strangers. 

Christine: Isn't it? Isn’t it? So he opens the door, and from upstairs– I kind of like thinking about it from Betty’s perspective because she’s in bed, and she just hears– First of all, I would be like, “Blaise, don’t go answer the damn door.” But, um– 

Em: Yeah, that– Like they can go to the next house if they want candy that bad. 

Christine: Yeah, if they want candy. Um, but Blaise has been in that scenario where he’s like, “Oh, I’ll just go check,” and I’m like, “Don’t you even begin to think about it, my friend.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like when we were staying at some motel, and he kept wanting to open the door, and I was like, “Are you out of your mind? Like we don’t know who’s out there.” 

Em: That’s male privilege. That is male pri– 

Christine: It is! It is! 

Em: It’s truly just like you clearly have never been in this situation enough times to just fucking pretend you’re not here. 

Christine: And then he had the audacity to say, “Well, Gio’s here.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I thought, “Yeah, the biggest liability of all.” 

Em: “Oh, okay. I’m so glad he’s there to sleep while you die.” 

Christine: The fucking biggest liability of all is here. 

Em: Oh, “Gio’s here.” Please. You know what? You would know who would be better here? Anyone else. Someone o– Anyone. 

Christine: I mean, he could have at least said– because this was during our cross-country move. He could have at least said, “Juniper’s here.” ’cause Juniper probably would claw the shit out of somebody who came toward him but not on, not on our behalf. Right? 

Em: No. 

Christine: Like neither of these animals would ever defend us. So in any case, I would not be letting Blaise open that damn door. But he’s like, “Okay, it’s Halloween. Like I’ll go check.” He sees someone in a costume, holding a bag, like the kind that trick-or-treaters had back then. They had these like paper bags. And, uh, from bed upstairs, Betty hears her husband say, “It’s kind of late for that, don’t you think?” But he goes to get the candy. And then all of a sudden, Betty hears a loud bang, a shout, and a car drive off. 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: So Betty rushes downstairs to see her husband laying on the ground. He had been shot with a revolver, and it was too late. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: He had died – or he was at least, um, you know, close to death. 

Em: Actively dying? 

Christine: Actively dying. I don’t know the best way to say it, but– 

Em: Well, I was gonna say I kinda– 

Christine: –he essentially died on his way to the hospital. So he w– It was too late. 

Em: Oh no. 

Christine: Let’s just say it was too late to save him. 

Em: Right, right, right, right. Oh man. 

Christine: So, of course, this seemingly random shooting like shocked the neighborhood. I mean, you imagine like a residential community being like, “Oh, on Halloween, some trick-or-treater just shot somebody in their doorway as they were handing candy out,” you know. 

Em: Well, especially because you as– I assume at least, like you’re killing someone with an intent. Like there’s– Like are you gonna break in and like steal something now? Like– 

Christine: Right, it’s– It just seems so random. 

Em: Just to– 

Christine: ’Cause it’s like, “Oh, it’s not a burglary”– Right. 

Em: Just like a shoot and dash. Yeah. 

Christine: Right, right, right. Um, and so in the following days, of course, police are trying to get to the bottom of this. They decide to delve into the life of Peter Fabiano and Betty, and, um, they discovered pretty quickly that the couple had actually recently reconciled after a separation. And now– 

Em: Oh boy. Okay. That doesn't sound good. 

Christine: –keep– Yeah, keep in mind also that this is the ‘50s, so, you know, separations in a marriage are not as maybe socially acceptable as they are now. Um, it’s probably a bigger deal then than it might be today. Um, but as they start digging into this separation, they realize that Betty had actually left her husband for a while and moved out– 

Em: For another man. 

Christine: –for another woman. 

Em: [gasps] Oh, another woman! Okay, see– Okay, now– It’s okay. I see. Sorry, I’ve got this stuff going on in my face. [fixing stray wig hairs out of their face] Okay, so do we, do we for sure know that the person who shot him was a man? 

Christine: Uh, we don’t know anything about the shooter yet. We just saw a face hidden behind a Halloween mask.– 

Em: Okay, cool. I was gonna s– I didn’t know if anyone like witnessed it, you know what I mean? 

Christine: We just saw a Ha– a face behind a Halloween mask, holding a paper bag. So there is– 

Em: Oh my god. Could be anyone. 

Christine: –no clue yet who this could be. Um, so Betty had developed this close, somewhat mysterious relationship with a woman named Joan Rabel, who was actually a former employee at one of Peter’s (her husband’s) salons. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So remember how I said he’s a well-known hairdresser. He owns these salons. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: And one of his employees – or at least former employees – he had a terrible relationship with. He hated her. She hated him. They had a very contentious relationship. Guess what? 'Cause they were in a love triangle with Betty. And– 

Em: That makes so much sense all of a sudden. 

Christine: It so does. And so– 

Em: So– Oh, sorry. 

Christine: They’re digging into this, and they’re like, “Uh-oh. Trouble in paradise.” 

Em: So was– Sorry. Also I just ha– This is not totally necessary, but her last name, Rabel– Is it spelled like “rebel”? 

Christine: So it’s spelled R-A-B-E-L, and I’ve heard it pronounced Rabel [pronounced “ruh-bell”] a few times. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And I think that’s cooler than like Rabel [pronounced “ray-bull”], and it might be Rabel [pronounced “ray-bull”], but– 

Em: Could be Rabel [pronounced “ra-bull”] like a rabble-rouser. 

Christine: It could be Rabel [pronounced “ra-bull”] also. But I think it– I, I’m just gonna say Rabel [pronounced “ruh-bell”]– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –’cause that’s just sounds cooler. But it might– It probably is Rabel [pronounced “ray-bull”], but– I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Em: Whatever. 

Christine: So they had developed this relationship, and they, of course, immediately turned to Joan. The police do. They’re like, “Joan, where were you on Halloween night?” And she swears up and down she did not leave her home one single time. She says, “Hey, go ahead and ask all the neighbors. My car was in the driveway all night.” And they’re like, “Ok–“ 

Em: [chuckles] Okay, girl. You got feet. 

Christine: L– Okay. First of all, that. Second of all, thou doth protest too much. She’s like, “No, ask the neighbors.” And they’re like, “Okay,” and she’s like, “Please, just go ask them.” 

Em: “But actually don’t!” [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: “Like go check with them real quick.” So of course, all the neighbors say, “Yeah, her car was there all night.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And in my head, I’m thinking, “Why is she so insistent about that? It’s weird.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: It’s weird to me to be like, “Go ask the neighbors where my car was.” 

Em: I– Okay. 

Christine: If you were innocent. 

Em: I mean– 

Christine: It’s just a weird thing to me. 

Em: I would tr– I would–If I were questioned for something like that, I would say, “No, it wasn’t me. Uh, ask these people I was with.” But I would never– I wouldn’t even th– 

Christine: I don’t think I would have even said, “Ask anyone.” I just would have been like, “I was at home.” 

Em: I don’t– 

Christine: And then if they’re like, “Who can vouch for you?” I might say, “I don’t know. I was texting somebody.” But it feels weird to be like, “Ask all my neighbors.” 

Em: I mean, I don’t even– I wouldn’t even like mention my car. I would just be– I– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: It wouldn’t even occur to me to mention my car. 

Christine: Well, exactly. And that’s exactly what ends up happening is like she’s trying to like , you know, uh, control the narrative, as you say. Um, but, so she’s like, “Ask all the neighbors. They’ll tell you.” And so she was right. All the neighbors said, “Yeah, the car was in the driveway.” And they thought maybe they had hit a dead end. That is until they asked one of her neighbors, the last one. They said, “Hey, we’re just confirming everyone saw, um, Joan’s car in the driveway. We’re just confirming. Did you also see it? Uh, l– Did you see it there all night? Or did you see it leave?” And the woman said, “No, her car was there all night, um, which I thought was odd because she actually asked to borrow my car that day.” 

Em: [gasps] Oh, well, ding-ding-ding. 

Christine: [laughs] I know. So it’s like, “Hm. Interesting.” 

Em: Sometimes I wonder how you and I would respond if we were actually interrogation officers. 

Christine: Me too. 

Em: Because if I heard something like that, the way you and I would gay gasp and hold each other. You’d do your Christine Claw on the elbow. [laughs] 

Christine: [gasps] [laughs] 

Em: You would go [gasps], “Oh my god, that’s a clue!” Like– 

Christine: [dramatic gasp] “ Oh my god! Write that down! Write that down! Eva!” [laughs] 

Em: I, I would not be able to like Mariska smooth– I wouldn’t be– 

Christine: Oh, no, no. 

Em: I wouldn’t be able to just go, “Mm-hmm. Interesting, interesting.” 

Christine: You and I would just have like a giggle fit, and it would be so inappropriate. 

Em: You and I would literally go– [laughs] 

Christine: Like the most inappropriate. 

Em: We would literally be clapping and jumping like, “We’re so good at our job!” 

Christine: [clapping] “Eee!” 

Em: “Yay!” Yeah. 

Christine: “Oh my god, we’re gonna get a gold star for this one.” 

Em: I’d be like, “Wow, everyone’s gonna be so proud. No one saw this coming. No one saw us actually solving this case.” 

Christine: Oh my god. Can you imagine? What a plot twist in the story of our lives. 

Em: Truly. 

Christine: And the person’d be like, “Can you please leave my living room? This is really inappropriate.” 

Em: Truly. 

Christine: Um, okay. So all the neighbors are like, “Yeah,” but then this one neighbor says, “Well, she put– she borrowed my car.” And this is my favorite part about this neighbor. 

Em: Tell me. 

Christine: Not only did she say, “Joan borrowed my car,” she also says, “She put 37 miles on it.” Like she– 

Em: Now, that’s Allison with her goddamn Excel sheet. 

Christine: –counted– 

Em: That is– 

Christine: That’s my stepdad with his obsession with like using energy efficiency to save the planet. 

Em: I’ve never– That’s– But that’s the girl you want in your corner to c–solve a crime, someone who notices every goddamn thing. 

Christine: The one time in my life– I was in college even, but I snuck out by claiming I– I was staying at my mom and stepdad’s house, and it was just me and my stepdad. And I wanted to go see my boyfriend, so I lied, and I said I was gonna go to like a friend’s house. And he’s like, “What friend?” But I needed to borrow his car– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and it was like late. So I was like, “Oh, okay. Uh, I’m just gonna borrow your car.” That motherfucker– 

Em: What? 

Christine: –knew already the fucking mileage, and so when I got home, he’s like, “Hm. Drove a little further than your friend’s house, huh?” 

Em: You know, that’s actually such a genius move as a parent though. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Because– 

Christine: But I wasn’t even– I was so pissed! I was like, “I’ve never snuck out. I’m– Also I’m an adult. I’m not even supposed to be sneaking out.” 

Em: Yeah, no. That’s crazy. But I will say as– if I were a teenager and got busted that way, I would have to go like, “Damn, you got me.” Like I don’t– There’s no– 

Christine: But that’s when I realized maybe I am a fuckking Charlotte ’cause I'm sneaking out of the house at 21 years old. Like get a grip, Christine. Come on. 

Em: That is– Certainly of the four of them, that is a Charlotte move. 

Christine: That’s really embarrassing. 

Em: Um, [laughs] wow. 

Christine: Anyway. The neighbor knows that this woman, Joan, borrowed the car. And either she’s just very, um, finicky or that’s just a thing you did back then, but she knows that there were about 37 miles put on this car. So police, of course, do the map of, you know, from Joan’s house to the Fabiano’s house. And wouldn’t you know it? It’s about 16 to 18 miles, depending on the route, one way. You double that – guess what? You’re just about 37. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So they’re like, “We fucking got her. She definitely was the one who drove there in the car.” So they’re trying to figure out like how on earth they’re gonna pin this on her because she’s still claiming she never left the house. Um, she c– 

Em: Well, maybe she should like c– tell a ghost to like write her testimony for her. 

Christine: Oh, wait! Hey, that worked out so well last time– 

Em: Sure did. 

Christine: –that maybe she should get, get a clue from that guy, from, uh, Harry’s, uh, spokesperson, Harry’s mouthpiece. What’s that guy’s name again? 

Em: Mm-hmm. William Hummel. 

Christine: William. Uh, so as they’re trying to kind of sort this out and figure out how they’re gonna nail her for this, they receive– Police receive an anonymous tip phoned in about where the gun is. Somebody calls in. I still don’t know w– I still– I’m so curious who this is, but somebody calls in and says, “Hey, there’s this department store downtown–“ 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “–and they have these like pay storage lockers where you can keep stuff. That’s where you’ll find the murder weapon.” And then they hung up. 

Em: Huh. 

Christine: And– 

Em: So it was really just like a, like a pay phone call. It was like– 

Christine: Just a complete random– Yes, like out of the blue anonymous call, as far as I can tell. ’Cause I– They don’t– have’t announced any other information. So police are like, “Okay, that seems doubtful that we’d go to like a Kohl’s–” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “–and find like a pay locker and find it in there, but whatever. I guess we’ll check it out.” And lo and behold, they open this locker and find a .38 Smith & Wesson revolver. 

Em: Ooh! 

Christine: And because they have the bullet that, you know, had killed Peter, they think, “Well, now let’s match it.” and sure enough, it matches the bullet that killed Peter. And they decide to trace a serial number back, and they’re thinking, “Okay, Joan. Here we come.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And they trace it back to Joan? No. 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: They trace it back to another woman: 42-year-old hospital clerk – now, get this – Goldyne Pizer [pronounced “goal-deen pie-zur”]. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Goldyne. I just need to talk about that for a moment. 

Em: So Goldyne is the name of a Pokémon, I think. And– [chuckles] 

Christine: I, I do know that. I will say it’s spelled G-O-L-D-Y-N-E. 

Em: Okay. That doesn’t help. Um– 

Christine: I love it. I think it’s hilariously adorable. I’m gonna show you a picture of Goldyne actually ’cause I feel like you need to see her to get the vibe. ’Cause remember, this is the ‘50s, so like– 

Em: I will say I can already tell Goldyne makes a great cobbler. 

Christine: Oh, and one of those Jell-O mold situations. You know it. 

Em: Goldyne has a recipe from every family member. You know what I mean? 

Christine: You know what? I don’t think you’re wrong about that. Uh, okay. First of all, I just googled– [laughs] I just googled her name, and the number of weird podcast like memes and posts about this crime and all the– I’m like, “Just show me Goldyne. Somebody show me Goldyne.” So I can’t– I don’t have the photo offhand, Em, but I will, um, get it to Megan, or more likely Eva will; I’ll forget, and Eva will find it. And we’ll post it on social media if we can find it. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Um, but I do have a photo– Oh, Wine & Crime has covered this story? See, that’s the problem with our show and Wine & Crime is that we don’t label our episodes with the name of the crime or the story. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So like when I’m googling, you know, “podcast episode about this”– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –ours and Wine & Crime never come up because we have like– So I guess they did this in Halloween crimes in episode 143. Damn, so I didn’t even get to listen to Wine & Crime on it. Oh, well. I’ll listen to it later. 

Em: I also like that theirs was also– this was their also Halloween episode. 

Christine: Halloween episode. 

Em: That’s funny. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s a really good point. Um, so I’m gonna send– 

Em: Um, yeah, unfortunately, if you want to know what topics we cover, you have to go to our website, and there’s a search bar for– on our episodes. 

Christine: Yes, exactly. Then you have to search for it, which is fine too, but, um, the– Uh, okay. Actually, I don’t want to send you the picture of Joan yet because it has, um, it has some, uh, some spoilers. Okay. 

Em: Mm! Okay. 

Christine: Alright– 

Em: So– Oh, so I’m still wondering who the deep throat guy was? The– who was like on the phone at– saying, “This is where you’ll find the gun.” 

Christine: We don’t know. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Anonymous tip. That’s why they didn’t take it seriously. Not that they didn’t take it seriously, but police didn’t really like bet on it. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: They were like, “Eh, okay. “ Like, “We’ll check it out because it’s the only lead we have.” 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: And they were honestly shocked that it actually led them to the murder weapon. Like they thought maybe this was just a f– 

Em: A fluke or something, yeah. 

Christine: –a prank call or, or what have you. Yeah, exactly. Um, so they traced this gun back to 42-year-old hospital clerk, Goldyne. And I don’t care what anybody says, especially Em. I think it’s a great name. Uh, so who the fuck is Goldyne? Let's get to it. They have to figure out now this– It’s– What is it? A love rhombus, all of a sudden? It’s got four points instead of three. 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah, so she– So, sh– was she also cheating on woman number one with woman number two? 

Christine: Well, let’s find out. 

Em: Mm! 

Christine: We gotta get the red string out because that’s what they had to do. 

Em: I love it. 

Christine: They start tracking back. They start with Joan and Betty’s “friendship”, okay? Uh, so when Joan started working at the hair salon, um, she and Betty got close obviously. Uh, Joan herself was born in Philly– [laughs] in, in Philly, ever heard of it? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, in Phi-town? Ever heard of it? 

Em: Yeah, girl. It’s in Pennsylvania. Uh, Lycoming County, ever heard of it? 

Christine: Yeah, ever heard of Lycoming nightclub? So Joan was born in Philadelphia, PA in 1917. And she had a lucrative career as a writer and photographer, um, which at the time was not no– not, you know, the norm to be kind of a “make your own type of money” sort of career woman. Especially with s– 

Em: Mm-hmm. Self-starter. 

Christine: Self-starter. Especially with such like an, uh, adventurous career. She sailed around the Americas, and she would take photos. Um, and so when she arrived in the San Fernando Valley, she had recently gotten divorced. We actually don’t know much about her divorce story, but we do know she had previously been married. And she came to San Fernando Valley, and she was looking for work after her divorce. So she started working at the hair salon, and she and Betty, who’s, you know, Peter’s wife, the owner’s wife, um, became close friends. And she was basically welcomed into their family. Um, the couple both really liked her. And so when Peter and Betty kind of started having some conflict in their marriage, uh, Joan was there as a shoulder to cry on. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Joan was there, you know, to comfort her, and Joan was there to offer some living arrangements when Betty decided to leave her husband. 

Em: What? “Come sleep in my bed with me, and we’ll kiss”? 

Christine: I guess so. 

Em: Okay. Hey, girl. 

Christine: Listen– I mean, listen, they don’t kiss and tell, but they definitely moved in together and got really, really close. 

Em: [laughs] Okay. They were chumming it, as you say. 

Christine: They were chumming it. Amen. Um, so Peter understandably felt really rocked by this and uneasy and like threatened by the intimacy of his wife and this woman that worked for him. Um, the L.A. Times actually described the pair’s relationship as, quote, “abnormal,” [laughs] – 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –which in the 1950s meant homosexual. 

Em: Well, yes. Obviously. 

Christine: Which in the 2020s means gay! 

Em: Gay! Big fat gay. Yes. 

Christine: Yeah. Who says “homosexual”? Uh, homophobes, I think, only. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Uh, anyway, so– 

Em: No, they just say “homo.” [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, yeah. True. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Well, only if they’re trying– But if they’re trying to be understanding, they will say “homosexual” to try and like show how cool they are, you know? 

Em: Mm-hmm. Obviously, yes. My, my mom recently tried to say “queer”, but she didn’t know if it was like still a slur. 

Christine: She was like, “Oh, I’m so sorry.” 

Em: She was like, “You keep saying it, so I think it’s okay.” I’m like, “Mm-hmm. Well, this feels like a slur, this whole conversation, so–“ 

Christine: [laughs] “Uh, I’m threatened either way, whether it’s a slur or not.” 

Em: “Either way, I hate it. Maybe we just change the topic.” 

Christine: “Yeah, you’ve put me on the defense. Thanks, Mom.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, I wa– also want to mention real quick that a lot of this, uh, in addition to that episode, uh, is from True Crime Edition. A lot of it is from True Crime Edition. They did– I think– I’ve read a lot of articles, but I think that was the most like, um, in-depth one I found. 

Em: Okay. 

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Christine: So Betty eventually decided that she would move out of Joan’s apartment and back in with Peter because she really wanted to save her marriage. And, as you can imagine, Joan was not thrilled about this, uh, especially because Betty moved back in with Peter and told him that she had been having an affair with Joan. And I think he sort of knew that because she moved in with her and was like very intimate with her, but just in case– 

Em: He was like, “I gathered that, for sure. Thank you.” 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just in case he hadn’t read the room, she was like, “Hey, just so you know, you know, I had an affair with Joan. But I’d like to save our marriage.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So she moved back in, and Joan was not fucking happy about this. And on top of that, now Joan was enemy number one of both Peter and Betty. Because Peter and Betty were like, “Okay, she is a threat to our marriage.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “Even though Betty like had a fling with her, had a relationship with her, this is– She’s actively a threat now, so we’re cutting her out of our lives.” She no longer works at the hair salon. She no longer comes around, and Betty’s avoiding her at all costs. They think, “We’ve moved on. Life is good.” However, that same year, in 1957, Joan, who’s still kind of reeling from this rejection of Betty– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –met a woman named Goldyne Pizer. Goldyne Pizer was a medical secretary, and the two of them also got really close. And they would do this thing, which they talked about on Murder– Murder with My Husband, and I– My jaw dropped because I have never heard this term outside of German– like outside of being used in German, the language. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, ever heard of it? [laughs] The language? 

Em: [laughs] Yeah, girl. 

Christine: What’s wrong with me? [laughs] Uh, but appar– It might be Yiddish. Like maybe, maybe it’s also Yiddish. Maybe that’s why. But it’s called a coffee klatch. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Have you ever heard of this? 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: Okay, so maybe it’s not Yiddish. Or maybe it’s not– 

Em: Oh, I, I don’t like know all Yiddish. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: I only know the ones– the things my grandparents kinda regurgitated to me. 

Christine: So in, in Germany, kaffeeklatschen is like you go and have a gossip over coffee. 

Em: Oh, okay. 

Christine: It’s kind of like– So they also have kaffee und ku– kaffee und kuchen which is like coffee and cake hour, which you have almost a siesta, but it’s just for cake. 

Em: [stumbling over words] I lo– Yeah. 

Christine: Daily. It's a very important– 

Em: I lo-love the Germans all of a sudden. Yes. 

Christine: –cul– I know. They’re great. I know. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Sometimes. Sometimes. 

Em: They have their moments for sure. 

Christine: They have their moments, and even I will admit that. But kaffeeklatsch is like, oh, you go and like klatsch. Like you go and– Like– It’s like K-L-A-T-S-C-H. It’s like– You’re just like quack– You’re– What’s a word– What– There’s a similar word in English for gossiping, like, um, blabbing maybe. Like you’re just going to like blab and gossip about people. 

Em: Gab? 

Christine: Gab? 

Em: Is that what you’re talking about? 

Christine: Maybe. 

Em: Yeah. That’s– I use that word a lot, “to gab.” 

Christine: Yeah, to gab. Yeah, sure. 

Em: Just gabbing. 

Christine: So they’re gabbing over coffee, and this is kind of how Joan’s and Goldyne’s relationship started, which I also feel like is probably how a lot of quote “homosexual” female friendshi– relationships may have started. Like, “Oh, we’re just getting together to like drink coffee and talk every day.” 

Em: Yeah, “We’re having girl time.” 

Christine: “We’re just like–“ 

Em: “Um, it’s actually just girl time.” So. 

Christine: Yeah. “Sometimes our lips have to t-touch though.” 

Em: “Sometimes we’re, we’re telling each other secrets, and we have to be so close that we just whisper them right into each other’s mouths by kissing.” 

Christine: “And also just naked by ch– by chance. But that’s just part of it.” 

Em: “It just helps like– It’s like– It just makes us feel closer.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It’s called coffee klatch. 

Em: Ever heard of it? 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You in that wig – “Ever heard of it?” 

Em: Um, “I’m sorry. I’m just get– I’m just getting coffee and gabbing with my girls. Ever heard of it? Thank you.” 

Christine: I just love kaffeeklatsch. I want to do a kaffeeklatsch with you every day. It– Not in the weird sex way, but in the normal way. 

Em: I see– In, in my family– Oh, no. Well, [disappointed tone] well, okay. Yeah, I’ll do it the other way then. 

Christine: [laughs] Well, let’s start normal like all the other ones and then see what happens. 

Em: That was– Yeah, I think as soon as you and I enter the chat, I become the Charlotte. Let’s put it that way. Um. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, I’m like, “Hey, let’s kaffeeklatsch,” and Em’s like, “I don’t think so. I’m in a relationship.” 

Em: “Let’s, let’s whisper secrets into each other’s mouths, but also like in a not gay way.” Um– 

Christine: “But also like please get a little bit further away from me.” Um– 

Em: [laughs] Okay, but what if I bring the wig? Are you like feeling it? Are you like into this or no? 

Christine: I mean– 

Em: Which way do you prefer? You tell me. 

Christine: [sighs] I guess there’s only one way to find out. 

Em: [screams] Ahhh! 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Yes, both ways, so now there’s a guarantee for two opportunities. Okay– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Um, okay. Uh, I, I was gonna say, my family, we’ve also always used the word “kibitz.” 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: Is that–? 

Christine: Okay. Yeah. What does that mean? 

Em: Like a cl– I– Well, the way it’s used in our family is “to gossip.” 

Christine: Oh, okay, okay, okay. So probably same idea. And, um, according to germanfoods.org, which sounds like a joke, but actually I have, um, used this website often in my life. Um– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: One of my classics. germanfoods.org says, uh, that it literally translates to “coffee chatter.” 

Em: Oh, okay. 

Christine: And it was often– So it originated– I kinda love this little fun fact. It originated as a like kind of an activity, for example, for stay-at-home moms. Because it was like the ‘50s, and, you know, you’re, you’re at home with the kids. You might as well have like Goldyne over with her kids, and they can play, and you can kinda gab about your day and raising the kids and your husbands and blah, blah, blah. 

Em: I mean, that was how it was– That– Again, that was kind of the, the kibitz for me. It was like my, my single mom had– and her single mom friends would all come over, and me and all of the, the kids of single moms would hang out while all the single moms talked. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s called “wine chatter” though. 

Em: It– Oh, oh, okay. Sure. 

Christine: In that scenario, I imagine. As it, as it will be in mine. 

Em: It certainly was, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. Um, that’s more relatable to me personally, but I do, I do understand the– As, as someone who wer– was a stay-at-home mom for only a few months, um, I imagine I would be desperate for something like this as– like during the day. 

Em: Yeah, to ha– talk to an adult. Talk to– Just be around adults. 

Christine: Yeah, to have– Exactly. To commiserate, to just socialize, etc. So that’s how they started, um, you know, their relationship. And it’s reported– And this is something that’s like kind of a sticky topic because we don’t really have it from Goldyne’s mouth herself, uh, but it’s reported that Goldyne was gay and had spent her life, you know, suppressing that and had actually gotten married to this guy named Herbert, which woof– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and then apparently, uh, recently had divorced him as well. So on top of potentially being gay and having repressed it, and now she’s also divor– newly divorced just like Joan has been divorced and is out of a relationship. It sort of felt like a perfect storm brewing. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So it was during these coffee– kaffeeklatsches that, uh, Joan started speaking about this guy, her employer, and his name is Peter Fabiano. 

Em: Mm… 

Christine: And Joan just tells, tells poor, poor Goldyne how horrible Peter Fabiano has made her life; what a terrible, terrible boss he is; what a bad, evil man; what a harmful, harmful person. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Essentially– Do you see what’s happening? 

Em: I see what’s happening. 

Christine: Okay, I, I don’t know if I’m giving the right clues or not or if I’m being too subtle. 

Em: No, you’re being– You’re dr-dropping the right clues. 

Christine: Okay. Essentially, Joan convinced Goldyne that Peter Fabiano, who, conveniently, she didn’t mention was also her– 

Em: Is married to her lover, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, her lover. Right. Conveniently left that part out. But convinced Goldyne: a) that Goldyne should basically do anything for her. Goldyne later said, “I was so smitten. I would have done anything in my life for this woman.” So Joan’s sort of taking advantage of that– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –well, not sort of – fully taking advantage of that and trying to convince Goldyne that there’s this like evil, evil man on the planet that is just harming Joan daily. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And “What are we gonna do about it?” So yeah, you can probably see the writing on the wall. But ultimately, Goldyne ended up buying a .38 Smith & Wesson from a shop in Pasadena. She claimed she just needed it for personal protection, so they gave it to her. She then, uh, agreed to Joan’s plan, which was that she was going to murder this man and save, not only Joan, but the poor woman that Peter just happens to be married with who’s being abused daily and being like harmed and being– xyz. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: This guy is the devil. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So Joan had instructed Goldyne– well, kind of given her instructions for the whole event, but– 

Em: “Here’s your mask, and I need you to dress up like this Halloween trick-or-treater and–” 

Christine: Em, literally. Literally instructed the costume, which was blue jeans, a khaki jacket, red gloves, makeup, and a Halloween mask. So yeah, basically said, “Here’s your uniform. Here’s your costume, and, uh, now hide the revolver in the trick-or-treat bag. Like the paper trick-or-treat bag.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And you heard what happened. She went and rang the door. She apparently later said her heart was being so loud and so hard that she could barely stand it, and she was shaking. But she shot him and ran for the car. 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: Goldyne then disposed of the gun in a storage locker in the department store that I was talking about earlier, and the anonymous tip had led the police to the weapon and then, in turn, to Goldyne’s door two weeks later. She, at the time, lived in Hollywood– I think West Hollywood, they said. And she told the police, “It’s a relief to get it off my mind.” Which– Don’t you sometimes feel back then that everybody was a little bit too casual about like violent murders? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] It’s not eve– Like, like the, like the– 

Em: “Yuck, that was bothering me.” 

Christine: Yeah, exactly! Like the John Mulaney bit we always reference where it’s like, “Eugh, god! Get that blood out of here. We gotta figure out this crime,” you know? It’s like– 

Em: “Back to my hunch,” yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, “Back to my hunch.” So she’s like, “Oh, man. It’s been such a burden.” It’s like what the fuck? 

Em: Yeah. It’s been really difficult having to exist dealing with something I could– I did on my own. 

Christine: I did. 

Em: It’s like, um, why is there no accountability being taken? 

Christine: None. 

Em: Why is there no empathy happening here? 

Christine: And also like no fear. Just like, “Oh, thank god. I’m so glad to get this off my mind. [cheery tone] Arrest me!” Like what? 

Em: [laughs] “Guilty! Lock me up–“ 

Christine: You're not gonna pretend that you’re– didn’t do it? 

Em: I– Especially when this was the era of like– Well, there was– I guess it’s still a, uh, a– 

Christine: Chumming? 

Em: No. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I was gonna say like if you get arrested, like– death row is very much an option. Like I don’t know– 

Christine: Right, they’ve got gallows – like real ones, not nightclubs. 

Em: Like real gallows. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I’m like, “Why is that not a big enough threat?” Like if you were living in a world where like the biggest punishment– Maybe it’s because she was a woman, and it’s– 

Christine: I think it’s because you’re Goldyne, the blonde wo-woman from Pasadena. 

Em: I was– Like maybe they’re just gonna slap on the wrist and be like, “Oh, she obviously couldn’t have done this herself” or something. 

Christine: Like, “She doesn’t know any better,” you know? Yeah, yeah. I think it’s probably a, a combo of all of that. I think she probably was also a little bit– I hate to say naive ’cause I feel like that sounds like a big insult, but like you’ve gotta be at least a little bit naive to get– let somebody convince you to just shoot someone you’ve never met. She’d never met this man. 

Em: Yeah, I’ve been, I’ve been in crazed, holy crap, puppy love and never would have shot somebody for another person. 

Christine: And, and never would it have– And it’s like I can see how that might happen, but also like you imagine there’d be a little more tension or like at least, um, conflict in your own mind about it. But it sounds like she just kinda went with it. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, but either way, one of the psychiatrists who, uh, examined her– which, by the way, um– [chuckles] 

Em: What? 

Christine: I, I– [laughs] So when they went through these examinations, uh, the court believed that homosexuality may have, um– First of all, onl– one and only benefit, I guess, of being gay back then: you may not be fit to stand trial. [laughs] Because you’re homosexual. 

Em: Oh, ‘cause you were mentally ill. ’Cause you were, uh– Yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, ’cause you’re fucking crazy. 

Em: Lock me up. Except don’t, ’cause I’m crazy. 

Christine: Except I’m crazy, so let me be. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Put me on some morphine and lithium– 

Em: They’re like, “Why didn’t you end up in jail?” “Oh, I’m gay, you know.” 

Christine: “Oh, I’m super gay.” 

Em: “Whoops.” Yeah. 

Christine: And then, I mean, if I’m holding a knife and I’m like, “Oh, actually I was unfit to stand trial ’cause I’m super gay”– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –I feel like people would be like, “Back away slowly.” 

Em: It’s wild that people would see you with a– like a bloody knife, and they’d go, “Clearly, you’re gay.” Like– [laughs] Not– 

Christine: “Yuck!” 

Em: I should– I– That’s the most threatening part of this. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s probably the part we should focus on. Um, and so both women pleaded not guilty. Uh, they did eventually change their pleas. For example, Pizer pleaded insanity, claimed she was just easily influenced by Joan. Um, and Joan herself refused to comment but apparently was like reported to have been wearing a very strange, like stoney, smile throughout the whole trial– 

Em: Ew. 

Christine: –which is a little bit creepy. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, they were both eventually charged with second-degree murder and sentenced to five years to life in prison. And uh, even though it was five years to life, which feels like the biggest range you could have– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –five years to life, uh, Goldyne ended up being paroled, um, by 1971– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: – and later became an officer in the Miracle Mile chapter of the Professional Women’s Club – whatever the fuck that is. 

Em: [laughs] What the fu–? Okay. 

Christine: And– [laughs] 

Em: Sounds gay. 

Christine: It sounds gay, doesn’t it? The officer at the– Yeah, agreed. She ended up passing away in 1998 at the age of 83, but nobody knows what happened to Joan Rabel. And– 

Em: Really? 

Christine: Yeah, we don’t, we don’t have any clue. Um– 

Em: Int– Was that just like not a time where like an accessory to murder wasn’t a thing, or–? 

Christine: They think that, uh, she– So they were actually both charged with the same crime and both convicted of the same crime which was second-degree murder. So neither of them were convicted of first-degree murder. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And neither of them– They were bas-basically charged exactly the same because pe– they– when– you know, law enforcement looked at them as having the same role. One of them was the mastermind (that was Joan), and then the other one actually pulled the trigger. So it’s almost like in their minds, they evened each other out and were– 

Em: Were in cahoots with each other, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly, and were equally culpable. Um, but to, to just give like a capper on the whole neighbor who probably, and I hope, told this story to her great grandkids for the rest of time, the car that Joan borrowed, um, was the getaway car. So even though, you know, Joan didn’t use it to go to like Food Lion or whatever she claimed, um, she, she was driving the car, but, you know, Goldyne actually pulled the trigger. They returned the borrowed car to Joan’s friend, but they left the khaki jacket in the vehicle, which also worked against them, and then they burned the rest of the costume. But, you know, probably the harshest part of all, in all seriousness, is that after Goldyne shot Peter– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –Joan said to her, “Forget you ever knew me,”– 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: –and drove away. 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: So basically Goldyne found out in that moment that she had been used just for that crime and that Joan never actually wanted to be with her, just wanted to– 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: –use her vulnerability to– 

Em: A crushing blow. 

Christine: Right? It’s gotta be– It’s gotta hurt. 

Em: It’s giving– Oh god, now of course I can’t remember the name. It’s the movie where like the princess is– She thinks she’s getting married to– Is she, she a princess or she’s like the daughter of like a f– a famous, um, diplomat, and she thinks she’s getting married. And then she finds out on her wedding day that he was just always her security aid and like that they’re not supposed to get married. 

Christine: A– Uh, what? 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Princess Diaries? I have no– 

Em: Someone knows what I’m talking about. It’s not Princess Diaries. 

Christine: I have no idea. Well, whatever it is, I kinda– 

Em: Someone knows. It’ll be in the comments. 

Christine: I wanna, I wanna watch it whatever it is. [laughs] So let me know, folks. 

Em: Like they end up having to like leave the– There’s like a, like a, like a safety– 

Christine: I’ve never seen that. 

Em: There’s like a– 

Christine: Is it like a, a, a ki– like a grown-up movie or a kids’ movie? 

Em: Yeah, I remember it– No, I remember like it being– at least for a teenager, like I remember it crushing me– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –when I was like, [gasps] “He never loved her. He was just hired to protect her.” Yeah. 

Christine: Shut the fuck up. 

Em: Someone’s gonna know what I’m talking about. It’ll be in the comments. 

Christine: I wanna see that movie. Um, oh, and, and I will also add, you know, we talked briefly about like how because they were [dramatic tone] homosexual, they were not fit to stand trial ’cause they were so fucking insane. 

Em: [dramatic tone] And gay. So fucking gay! Yes. 

Christine: So fucking gay. Um, I want to also add that they basically painted this in the media as Joan being the almost like Svengali, like luring her in, you know. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Um, and having this like kind of almost mesmerizing power over Goldyne. Um, and so that kind of led to the media sort of sidestepping any like actually deeper look into like– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –“Oh, these women who were trapped in the confines of heterosexual marriages,” you know, and it– Obviously, all of that went over everybody’s head, and they were like, “Oh no.” Like, “This evil Joan woman had like scary eyes with, with purple and hazel, uh, contacts–“ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–and she, she convinced all of– every– all the women to turn away from their husbands.” 

Em: [laughs] Right. 

Christine: Um, and so, you know, it was a little bit like “eugh,” um, of course, but, you know, what else do we expect? Um, and you know, they would call them “abnormal” and “deviant” and all that good stuff. But either way, uh, this became known as the Trick-or-Treat Murder. And, uh, that is the story, a, a little gay Halloween story for you. 

Em: Thank you ’cause it’s never fully Halloween if it’s not gay. 

Christine: Certainly. 

Em: And it’s not ever fully gay if it’s not Halloween, so– 

Christine: Certainly. 

Em: Um, well done. Well done. I– It, it was worth pushing the part two to next week, I think. 

Christine: Okay, good. I’m glad. I, I wanted it to be kind of a standalone episode, you know. 

Em: Yeah. No, that’s a gr-gr– I will say you’ll have to definitely do– give us a “previously on” next week because I won’t remember that story at all. [laughs] 

Christine: Happily ’cause I won’t either– 

Em: Okay, great. 

Christine: –so I think we’ll both need it. 

Em: Um, that was lovely, Christine. I mean, it was terrible, but it was lovely. And– 

Christine: Well, thank you. And I’m, I’m– 

Em: And I feel like– 

Christine: I’m glad. 

Em: I feel like I, I, I dressed the part for some gossip today, for some gay gossip. I was basically in drag the whole time, so that’s lovely. 

Christine: You were – Father Time drag. 

Em: Father Time is when this also connects to my mouth and I go, [older, shaky voice] “Yes, yes.” [pulls long wig hair together to form a long mustache/beard] 

Christine: Yeah, to be fair that actually would add a lot to the Father Time character. As it is down, it definitely looks more like, um, some sort of Cher drag. 

Em: I d– See, I don’t see Cher, but I do see– 

Christine: But I don’t know what Cher looks like– 

Em: Oh, well. Okay. 

Christine: –so in my head, I’ve just decided it. And I think I don’t know the difference. 

Em: Yeah, I don’t know who I resemble, but I, I gotta say the– 

Christine: You look like the woman at the corner who has goats in her suburban backyard and is trying to sell chicken and honey– 

Em: Thank you. 

Christine: –chicken eggs and honey to people from her front yard, even though you live in the suburbs and why are you doing that. 

Em: I have a lot of those bowls that make that meditation “dong” sound. 

Christine: That’s exactly right. 

Em: And I– 

Christine: And you do wear a lot of, uh, you know, the clothes that like Lily Toml– Tom– 

Em: Yes, yes. 

Christine: –Tomlin wears. Yeah. 

Em: I mention Mother Earth a little too often. 

Christine: A little too o– It’s like, “Alright, we get it.” 

Em: I just say like, “Oh, spirit is connecting with you.” And like nothing’s happening. 

Christine: Yeah. And it’s like, “Is it?” Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. I only drink like herbal tea leaves and like I– Yes, I, I know exactly who you’re talking about. I see them at a lot of art fairs around here. Yeah. 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Yeah, I have a horse that like I’m way too into. 

Christine: And it’s like you don’t have room for that horse. Why do you have a horse? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: But, but okay. 

Em: Yeah, we share a house. We share a bedroom actually, uh– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] [sighs] Well, I’m glad that you feel that– 

Christine: Sometimes we kiss on the lips. It’s just what we do. 

Em: Sometimes we tell secrets into each other’s– [laughs] 

Christine: We’re having kaffeeklatsch together. It’s fine. 

Em: Um, can I get one more look of– at the, uh, the Crime Traveler, Partner in Time? 

Christine: [gasps] Aww. Yeah, thank you for asking. [puts their hat and sunglasses back, holding up the flashlight] 

Em: I love that you thought of that. That was so– such a niche, uh, obscure reference. Like– 

Christine: Do you know what I did? I went into our Instagram, and I looked at our tagged photos. And I just started scrolling for any like fan art or like mentions, and I saw like, uh, a bunch of cryptids that I considered. And then I saw, um, “Partners in Time”, and I was like, “That’s fun. I’m at Target–“ 

Em: Yeah. I still love– 

Christine: And I was already at Target, so I thought, “Why don’t I just buy some weird retro stuff?” 

Em: I still love our– that reference: uh, Crime Travelers, Partners in Time. 

Christine: It's my favorite. 

Em: I fucking love it. 

Christine: And I– A couple people have made fan art, and I was like, “This is so good. Like I don’t know what we’re gonna do with it, but I feel like–“ 

Em: We should do like a film noir sp– old spy movie or something. 

Christine: I think so. Something, right? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like I feel like it’s, it’s, it’s rife with– it’s rife for content. 

Em: At, at some point, there needs to be a shirt that says “Crime Travelers, Partners in Time.” 

Christine: I know. I know. We have to make it perfect. I’m trying to think of how we’ll do it. 

Em: I know. I– I-isn’t that the worst thing about us? It’s like, “It has to be perfect or else it just shouldn’t exist at all.” 

Christine: Yeah, we can’t just half-ass it. It’s not gonna work. Just like I can’t half-ass a Grumpy Toad. It’s just not gonna be– It’s not gonna make me happy. 

Em: Well, this was our seventh Halloween together and I, I was trying to think of what to dress– 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: –’cause I’ve done Zak Bagans. I’ve done Hir– America’s Hircine Shifter. 

Christine: I know. It’s like we’re running out. 

Em: I’ve done Leona. Remember the year she was gonna be born, I– I dressed as Leona. 

Christine: That was so upsetting. 

Em: I– 

Christine: ’Cause she was in my belly, and you were just there with a giant bottle. 

Em: And I loved every second of it. 

Christine: [mumbling] I know, I know y– 

Em: And now I’ve been Lady in White. I’ve been something else. 

Christine: La– So I– The year you were Leona, I was a mummy. ‘Cause I was very pregnant. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And I just wrapped myself in toilet paper, and I put googly eyes on my stomach. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And then that was the year you were Leona. [laughs] So that was extra upsetting that we were both kinda leaning into that. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And then, um, you were the Hircine Shifter– What– And I was Mothman that year. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, you were Zak Bagans– 

Em: I was Zak Bagans when you were Tina Belcher. 

Christine: –and I was Tina Belcher, which was just more of a me thing. And then– What were the other ones? 

Em: I wasn’t– There was something else– I wasn’t, I wasn’t Lemon. 

Christine: I was Lemon. 

Em: Oh, I was X– I was Xiinön, um, for– 

Christine: You were Xiinön, and I was Lemon. That was one– That was probably our best. You showed up– I have videos of you driving– of Allison driving you down the road– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –to the And That’s Why We Drink apartment where we were meeting, and I went, “Oh my god.” 

Em: And I was screaming, “Who’s honking?” Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: And I literally have a video where you can hear me go, ”Oh my fucking god.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And Em show ups with this fucking insane Xiinön– We gotta put– Let’s– Maybe– You know what we should do? Why don’t we do– Unless you have a plan already. 

Em: No. 

Christine: But for our Yappy Hour, we could– For our coffee klatch– our cof-coffee yap, we could go– 

Em: Our kibitz. 

Christine: Our kibitz, our coffee kibitz, we could go, uh, reminisce maybe. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: I don’t know. And like pull up those photos ’cause wow– Oh, that was the year that we also got kicked off our livestream for watching Zak Bag– for watching Ghost Adventures and commentating. 

Em: Yes. Good times. 

Christine: And we were having the best time, and then they kicked us off. 

Em: Oh, well. 

Christine: Anyway– 

Em: They haven’t done that on TikTok yet. It doesn’t seem like they cut people off for that, so maybe we just move to TikTok. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s so rude. I know. So let’s try that. 

Em: Let’s do that! Well, um, happy Halloween. I hope everyone, uh, gets their favorite candy. You deserve it. And I hope nobody knocks on your door past 10 o’clock. Um– 

Christine: And if they do, don’t fucking open it. 

Em: Don’t open it. Especially if you’re a man, can you like not tell your girlfriend to “relax” when you decide to go check on the door please? Thank you. 

Christine: And can you not rely on your dumb dog to save you? 'Cause he won’t. He’s not Lassie. 

Em: Thank you so much. Uh– 

Christine: You’re welcome. 

Em: And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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