E355 Ghouls, Gays, Theys and Cottage Core Lesbian Hauntings
TOPICS: alton Towers, The Amityville Horror House Murders
Ron Defeo Sr.
Louise Brigante-Defeo
The DeFeo children. Back row: John, Allison, and Marc. Front row: Dawn and Ronald Jr.
The chained tree
Alton Towers Resort Logo
Do gay people attract poltergeists? It's episode 355 and Em is taking us to a haunted U.K. theme park, Alton Towers, that just might be tied to a cottage-core lesbian couple. Take us to the haunted gift shop! Then Christine re-visits the Amityville Horror House to deep dive into the true crime and murder sides of the case. And, weigh in: do you need an Excel spreadsheet to have fun? ...and that's why we drink!
Transcript
[intro music]
Christine Schiefer: Christine and Em.
Em Schulz: Whoa.
Christine Schiefer: That is our new theme song I com-commissioned, I went on Fiverr and I paid $5 for someone to make this a song. And I said, just accent my name, 'cause that's the more important one.
Em Schulz: If I made $5 off that, I'm gonna be writing a lot of songs soon.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Sometimes Em, uh, will text me or will Venmo me and does this to like a lot of their friends, like Venmo, like, umm, ugly Tax $0.01. And, uh, I like...
Em Schulz: And you pay it every time, my friend, so I thank you.
Christine Schiefer: I put it on Instagram and then like five minutes later Em was like, "Well, you reposted." It was like, well, she paid for it. And I was like, you know what? You're right. Like, I can't say, wow, how dare you. Like if I'm the one paying the tax, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. It sounds like it was a reasonable fare and a reasonable, it was a reasonable price for reasonable reason...
Christine Schiefer: It was.
Em Schulz: And you said, all right, here I go cha ching.
Christine Schiefer: I said, fine, here's a cent. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Ugly tax, straight tax. Well, now I can't, I can't charge you straight tax. If anything, I owe you 50% back, so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God I'm gonna start charging you for your uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: For your homophobia...
Em Schulz: But anytime I've got a straight friend, they about once a month, they...
Christine Schiefer: I used to get a, I used to...
Em Schulz: Get a dollar requested...
Christine Schiefer: What if I just said that I was, what if I said I by just to avoid the $0.01 tax that you used to send me every month.
Em Schulz: I honestly that's a...
Christine Schiefer: This is like me evading this tax, this is evading tax law.
Em Schulz: You're a... You're a venture capitalist, or whatever it is. I... That sounds like...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's right. That's right.
Em Schulz: That's entrepreneurship.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, thank you.
Em Schulz: Probably saved the whole nickel by now.
Christine Schiefer: I, uh, honestly, and I'm gonna spend it that shiny nickel.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Can't wait.
Em Schulz: Umm, how am I?
Christine Schiefer: Umm, same.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I, we're, I'm good now. I've been in a bit of a hole for the last few weeks.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Just a lot going on. Nothing like super dire. I think everything just felt like it was coming in at once and I've been very overwhelmed and I feel like I haven't gotten to sit and fucking relax and...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's...
Christine Schiefer: That's, yeah.
Em Schulz: It's fucking Scorpio season. Let's be clear. Umm, now showing.
Christine Schiefer: Pffft. Man, they always do it to us. Yeah. It's showing.
Em Schulz: She's rearing her ugly head. Umm, ugly tax one penny, please.
Christine Schiefer: Ugly tax [laughter] pay it up. Pay it up Scorpios.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, yeah, I just, I feel like I haven't really gotten like any time to breathe lately, and then in a couple days I'm about to be gone for like two weeks because I'm traveling. We, I feel like I've, I've got a wedding that I'm seeing other people and then I've got Thanksgiving. It's just, it just never ends. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah.
Em Schulz: A little bit of, umm, treading water until I drown is how I feel currently.
Christine Schiefer: Treading water is a good way to put it. Yeah. That is what I feel as well. Umm, yes.
Em Schulz: I have a chaotic reason for why I drink.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, tell me.
Em Schulz: Umm, because which, like, if you... Hang on. How am I gonna phrase this?
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: Hmm. So, uh, last night was the first night in a while I've actually had like a second to breathe. Well, not really, but I had some time [laughter], it's some time that I found a way to use it very unwisely, which is I found a new hyper fixation, and it is the Waffle House marking system for their menu. Where...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Okay. I'm glad you don't know. And if you ever worked at...
Christine Schiefer: I was just at a Waffle House too, so I'm like primed for this information. I'm ready.
Em Schulz: Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: It's fucking crazy pants. Okay, so, umm, if you, and if you work at Waffle House, can you please like, send me like a full cheat sheet because I wanna memorize the entire thing. But you know how, like, like at a restaurant, usually there's like a POS system where they just like write on the ticket, like what you ordered?
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: They have code, like secret code, maybe not so secret, but, umm, they don't write anything down. They use their own ingredients and, and like put it and put random like butter packets and jelly packets all arranged a certain way on a plate. And that's how they tell the cook what to make.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: So like one butter packet means like a waffle, two stacked on top of each other means a double stack. One upside down means... And they're like, it's fucking crazy by the way. Like, that's the most normal information I'm about to give you. If you put a butter pack with a jelly packet on it, that means, umm, it could mean either blueberry waffle or it could mean dry toast. Or if you put a...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: If you put a ketchup packet horizontal, it means you want a steak. But if you have it vertical on the left side of the plate versus the right side of the plate means different things. If you put...
Christine Schiefer: Doesn't it slide around?
Em Schulz: I guess not. If you want, if you put pickles, if you're looking at a plate and you put pickles on the top of the plate, like, uh, north, if you...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: That means ham. If you put it east, it's sausage. If you put it south, it's bacon. And if you put it west, it means...
Christine Schiefer: This sounds like you've...
Em Schulz: No meat at all.
Christine Schiefer: Been locked in a basement for too long, [laughter] and like, you're, you've come up with like an entire world in your own mind.
Em Schulz: And like wherever you put, wherever you put the jelly packet, there's like five different locations on the plate to tell you how you want your eggs cooked. If you do it a different way, it like imply...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck?
Em Schulz: If you put the, if you put a mayonnaise packet one direction or on one side, it means chicken. If you flip it over, it means something else. It's like, it's the craziest.
Christine Schiefer: This is... I mean, you're right. I've never heard of such a thing. How did, is this a, is this a TikTok revelation? Reddit? How did you discover this?
Em Schulz: Uh, it had to be TikTok, but I...
Christine Schiefer: Also is, is the like mafia, like the Waffle House mafia gonna like silence you for...
Em Schulz: The wafia?
Christine Schiefer: The wafia, is the wafia gonna silence you for sharing their secrets? Like, is this something... Won't.
Em Schulz: I won't be silenced by the wafia house, I'll tell you that.
Christine Schiefer: I won't. Okay. All right. Well, watch it. Watch yourself.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause I will be silenced and I don't feel like it right now. So...
Em Schulz: So I found a couple cheat sheets, uh, for people who like work there and I guess it's like always posted over the grill or something. Found a couple of those memorized 'em.
Christine Schiefer: Sure.
Em Schulz: Now I'm trying to, like, now I'm trying to learn every single little thing, I wanna learn, I wanna learn the whole thing, for what reason? None. Also, if you, apparently that's just for the people cooking, but then if you write it down a certain way, they write it down really fast, but it's also its own complete different jargon. Like it doesn't just say fucking eggs and bacon. It's like there's a whole like script that they write and it's in crazy words. So Waffle House is just as fucking bonkers as we all thought. But...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I mean, yeah. I feel like this is, uh, enlightening, but also, yeah, like you said, not surprising necessarily. Yeah.
Em Schulz: It feels like Waffle House this entire time, it's like, it's like it's all connected 'cause I'm feeling like...
Christine Schiefer: Pffft. Okay.
Em Schulz: Waffle House has always been run by people who are their best and worst at 3:00 AM and now it's just making even more sense in their business practices because like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's sort of like they've, they've evolved or devolved into their own language and it's like, well, what did we expect?
Em Schulz: It's like they had a troll hole and they were like, we're gonna write it in code. And then they just really committed to it.
Christine Schiefer: Right. And everyone was like, you don't have to do that. You can write blueberry waffle. And they're like, no, that's too easy.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So, umm, anyway, that's my reason why I drank, is because this week's hyper fixation is the Waffle House marking code. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I'm very impressed. Thank you for sharing that with me. Umm...
Em Schulz: Thank you. Why do you drink, Christine? I think I've got myself a, a, a guess. No? Here we go. Let's take, take it away.
Christine Schiefer: I'm so tired. I am so, I am so, okay. We had a big project. [laughter] Okay? Em is, that's what Em's referring to. We had a big project, you'll hear about it later. So that was finally, the deadline was protein was really stressful. We were not sleeping, we were up all night, blah, blah, blah, blah. Literally the day that this project was due, the next morning I had to drive to Pittsburgh for a live show with Xandy for Beach Too Sandy, which was a delight, of course. Then the next day was Nashville. But like, of course I had to prepare my notes for both of those. So then we drove nine hours from Pittsburgh to Nashville. Then the next morning I drove back home, and then the next morning I had to drive to Columbus for a wedding. And we're driving up there, everything's fine and good. And all of a sudden my car starts making this horrible shrieking siren sound. And I look at the dash and it says, I can read it to you. It says, "Break failure, pull over safely." And I'm like, I'm going 75 miles per hour on the, on I-71. And you're telling me...
Em Schulz: And by 75, were you going 90?
Christine Schiefer: Obviously. And so [laughter] I was driving and I'm like, in the middle lane, there's tons of traffic. And so I like go to slow down and I'm like, oh, the brakes just don't, okay, so they're not doing anything. The brakes just don't do anything. So Blaise is like, push the e-brake. So I press the e-brake. Fucking nothing. It's like, rah, rah, rah, pull over. And I'm like, if the person in front of me slows down even five miles an hour, like we're collision cor, like there's no stopping the car. I'm hitting the e-brake. I'm trying to break the car. Literally nothing. It's not letting me...
Em Schulz: It's a, I mean it's a, it's a, an actual nightmare you went through because I...
Christine Schiefer: It's one of those stress dreams we've probably all had where like the brake stop working and it feels like why would that ever happen? Well, it did. And, umm, not to give everyone anxiety because it ended up being fine. Umm, I don't really freak out during like an a crisis. I'm very much like, I just kind of go into like problem solving mode. So I'm like, well, okay, this wedding, and you know, it's so funny. It's not funny at all. That's why I'm not laughing. But five minutes before I had said to Blaise, this, I just said, I'm so tired I can barely like, like, I don't even know how I'm like not sick or collapsing. And he goes, "Well, you know, we don't have to go to the wedding. We can like send our... " And I said, this is the only thing I've been looking forward to for almost a month. Like, we're going to this wedding. And he goes, "Okay, Christine. I wasn't like just, just just offering it, right?" Five minutes later my brakes start...
Em Schulz: Easy, easy.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, easy. We're on our way. We're halfway there. Literally it was 49 minutes from Columbus, 49 minutes from my house. We're literal halfway point, my car just goes, actually, we don't wanna want, you're not gonna be able to stop now. So I do that thing that you see or think about or if you're me, you constantly think about where trucks have to go pull off and like, use one of those ramps to like stop themselves...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: When the brakes fail. So I'm like trying to get off the highway. It's like tons of traffic and I like have to...
Em Schulz: Which by the way is the one thing I definitely wouldn't have done because my thought would've been, oh, if I get off on a ramp and now I'm like, there's a red light, like I'm just gonna drive right into a red light and like...
Christine Schiefer: No, it wasn't a real ramp. It was like grass.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: It was a farm. [laughter] I was like, okay, I just gotta get off the highway, otherwise I'm gonna crash.
Em Schulz: Okay. That, honestly, like who, whatever, whoever is in charge of the cosmos, they were looking out for you there, 'cause that's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Well...
Em Schulz: That's crazy.
Christine Schiefer: I I mean it was just like long stretch of highway. I was like, I gotta pull over the shoulder. So I'm like gone merging, trying. I'm like, sorry guys. I know I'm cutting everyone off 'cause my car is not in my control anymore. I am Jesus take the wheel. Nope, you're not here. So here I go. And so I just veered off into the grass and we just had to fucking roll the car until it was slow enough that I could put it in park. Like, 'cause the car won't go into park obviously if it's rolling.
Em Schulz: So you just, to be clear, you, so you just found at the perfect time a a whole field to just drive through until it slowed down?
Christine Schiefer: No, it wasn't a field. It was just like the shoulder. Like I just went along the shoulder for like...
Em Schulz: Oh! Oh, oh, oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: A mile, and I was like, I'm just gonna have to keep driving along the shoulder, [laughter] Eva just said, "That is insane. [laughter] I'm so glad you're okay." [laughter] Yeah. She's like, is that why in your B-reel you posted you're at a wedding and said, we almost died on the way here? I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why I said. [laughter] Umm, anyway, it was just really bad.
Em Schulz: Also, you were so fried mentally you had to have thought that this was just a dream. Were you just like pressing your hand a million times?
Christine Schiefer: I was. No, I literally was. And then I went to the wedding and I was like, this all feels like some weird fever dream the night before the wedding where I'm just like inventing all this stress.
Em Schulz: Right. Right.
Christine Schiefer: No, it was real. And then my brother had to like get up, drive to meet us. The tow truck, oh, that's the other thing. I pressed the fucking SOS button that comes with the car...
Em Schulz: Didn't work?
Christine Schiefer: Fucking crickets.
Em Schulz: [gasp]
Christine Schiefer: She, so, no, she answers the phone. It's not even that, it's worse than that. She answers the phone and she's like, "Emergency, is everyone okay?" And I said, umm, yeah, you know, we're all fine, but like the brakes failed and the car's off. 'Cause if I turn the car on, it just starts rolling and like, we don't know what to do. And there's like a pause and she goes, "Is anyone there who can hear me?" And I'm like, "Yes, I can hear you. I'm right here." And she goes, "I think they hung up on me." And she's talking to her coworkers. I'm like, "Girl, I'm screaming. I'm right here." And she's like, man, like, blah, blah, blah. And she's like bitching. And I'm like, "I'm right here. What if I was dead and I wasn't answering you because I was dead?"
Em Schulz: Yeah. By the way, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like why are you...
Em Schulz: Isn't that like, isn't your first assumption if you're the SOS that if you don't hear anything...
Christine Schiefer: That's exactly.
Em Schulz: Call a fucking ambulance?
Christine Schiefer: I'm like clearly, and it's in my location like I'm clearly on the side of the road. Like, so she goes, "I've dispatched police." And I was, okay, well, at least she dispatched police. Bullshit. They never came. Nobody ever came.
Em Schulz: [gasp] You gotta get with the winning team. You gotta, you gotta be team Subaru. I've never had a problem with my Subi.
Christine Schiefer: I don't think that's true. I've heard some, some...
Em Schulz: What have you heard? She has gone through it all. And she's fine.
Christine Schiefer: Well, you've, I guess you've put her through a lot. Maybe that's what I'm thinking.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I'm, I'm the worst thing to ever happen to her, so.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, no.
Em Schulz: Just like you.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. For once in, for once in a relationship, I'm not the toxic one with this car. [laughter] So it's nice, you know, in that way. No, and I, I like seriously do not wanna put them on blast because, again I'm so proud of my car. I love her so much. She's my best friend. And I've driven her all through the US already. Okay? And she's nailed it. But she had some sort of sensor failure, and something bad happened. So anyway, she's coming back to me tomorrow. And I'm only a little bit afraid. But...
Em Schulz: I know. I was gonna say, do you have PTSD now of...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Your, of, I would. I would. Like I think it would be very normal to be nervous to get in a car now. I wonder if your brakes are gonna fail every time.
Christine Schiefer: Only if Leona is in the car.
Em Schulz: I mean not to put like more in your head.
Christine Schiefer: If it's, if it's just me, I'd be like, eh, it's fine. No. It's fine. They're gonna fix it because they know if something does happen, they're in big fucking trouble. So I think they're gonna take every measure to fix it. And, you know, when I got it, there was already an issue with like the trunk sensor. I think the whole sensor thing on this car has to be... I think they're replacing the whole sensor. I think something... It was a little too big for its britches with all this fancy new equipment, you know? And all the safety.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I'd be like, throw an extra sensor in there just in case this one also fails.
Christine Schiefer: Just throw a few sensors in there. Umm...
Em Schulz: Just pop them in. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And make sure the e-brake works just in case. You know? [laughter] So anyway, it was just really ridiculously chaotic and like silly. It was the last day. I was this is finally something fun I get to go do. You know, just a quick drive with my wonderful partner. We can drive up, have a nice solo night. And then all of a sudden we're stranded on the side of the highway. I'm walking to the weigh station to go pee in the port-a-potty 'cause, you know, there's too many cars to pee on the side of the road. It was just one of those days. And... I'm just really, like... I feel like... Oh, and then the next morning I woke up and I had a dream that I got a cold sore. And I woke up and was like phew, that was just a dream. And then I just got burst out in my herpes simplex.
Em Schulz: Oh, gosh. Well.
Christine Schiefer: I, uh, I just, like you know when you have like an inflammatory response? Well, I do because I have...
Em Schulz: Uh-huh. I sure do.
Christine Schiefer: An inflammatory illness. So my whole body just went like berserk. And now everything is upside down and topsy-turvy. I have like cold sores all over my face. I'm, like...
Em Schulz: Aww.
Christine Schiefer: Anyway, I'm just like having a day and a time and a week.
Em Schulz: Girl, you need a nap. That's number one.
Christine Schiefer: I do. I just don't have time. You know, I have a baby and all this nonsense that takes up a lot of my time. But, oh, and, okay. I'm sorry. I'm just complaining now. I'm so sorry. I'm back.
Em Schulz: That's, oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Here. With you now. And I'm gonna have one of these old-fashioned lemon drops from Jungle Jim's.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and, by the way, if we need a transition, Eva told us to talk about something, which is that, apparently, there have been some issues with people's podcast platforms that they listen on, where they'll write in and say oh, there's something wrong with the editing. And then, once you refresh or re-download your podcast player, you know, whichever player you use, it'll kind of fix the problem. And this seems to be increasing. I don't know if these platforms are like, uh, updating...
Em Schulz: Getting funky. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Getting funky. Getting glitchy. But, for whatever reason, that seems to keep happening. So we wanted to give you a little PSA, like if something sounds wonky, umm, it might be your podcast player. So just try closing out, refreshing, re-downloading, you know. Anyway. PSA.
Em Schulz: One last, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Also wear your seatbelt, just in case.
Em Schulz: Oh. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Always.
Em Schulz: And one last other announcement. Kind of a big one.
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: Girl. We're going on tour.
Christine Schiefer: Oh! Right. That. It just feels like...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Let's try it again. Hang on. I'm going to...
[vocalization]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Start over. Start over.
Em Schulz: We're going on tour!
Christine Schiefer: We're going on tour!
[vocalization]
Christine Schiefer: I'm so excited, actually. It's gonna be a fucking blast. We're going to Salem! We have Beverly, technically. But I've never been to Salem.
Em Schulz: I'm very excited for you.
Christine Schiefer: I've never been. I'm so excited. I'm so excited to...
Em Schulz: I can't wait to be your, your official tour guide. Eva's also gonna be your tour guide. You are in good hands.
Christine Schiefer: Are you guys going to be debating over who gets to be my tour guide?
Em Schulz: Uh, Eva can do it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. Wow.
Em Schulz: But like if you like... Maybe we'll tag team it. You get an Eva day and an Em day. And we'll see who, who, you know...
Christine Schiefer: I can't wait. I'm just so excited. Oh, Eva says she already has a Google Doc, so I think you're falling behind. Sorry.
Em Schulz: I mean...
Christine Schiefer: Sorry. We saw it coming.
Em Schulz: Sometimes you don't need an Excel sheet to have fun. Am I right?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, really?
Em Schulz: Just saying. Just saying, Eva. Well, it'll be, it'll be a duel for us, I suppose, a Salem duel.
Christine Schiefer: You don't need an Excel sheet to have fun.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You heard it here first.
Em Schulz: My girlfriend would disagree. She loves an Excel sheet.
Christine Schiefer: Gonna say, I know Allison, and she used to take Saturday morning Excel classes, okay? So.
Em Schulz: She's, she's her own person, and I love her for who she is. Okay, we're going on tour, everybody, and we've got 16 shows. We didn't plan this, but apparently it's a whole Northeast tour. Didn't see that coming. [laughter] But...
Christine Schiefer: No, it really is just like its own...
Em Schulz: I don't know how that happened.
Christine Schiefer: Animal. Its own beast.
Em Schulz: Yeah. We were, we're testing new markets as they say, and apparently what that means is we're going to the Northeast. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, well, and also Indianapolis, which I feel like...
Em Schulz: And that way.
Christine Schiefer: They've gotten shaft, the shaft so many times because when the last tour, I forget what happened. Oh, well, with 2020, and then their show like just never got rescheduled. So like...
Em Schulz: That would be the one that deserves it the most, I think.
Christine Schiefer: We've skipped them so many times, so they finally have their moment. Knock on wood, hopefully. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And if you would like to, um, get tickets, you can at our website, andthatswhywedrink.com and we hope to see you there, and if you can't make it for some reason, we will see you in the fall, but it will be a different tour, so if you want.
Christine Schiefer: Right, this is your last.
Em Schulz: To see... If wanna see our current show On The Rocks, which is not the same as Here for the Boos. Here for the Boos was us investigating the Queen Mary.
Christine Schiefer: Here for the Booze is old news, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, old, old news, Here for the Boos. Okay, I'm sorry. If you wanna see On the Rocks, you have until the end of this tour, and then if you want to come to another tour... And then we'll see you in the fall.
Christine Schiefer: We'll see you in the fall, hopefully. Let's see how we, how we survive this first tour, but yes. Uh, it's...
Em Schulz: Maybe it'll in The southwest since apparently this is the northeast, so I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Apparently so. Yeah, Texas was like, what the fuck? And we were like, listen, we don't know. I'm sorry.
Em Schulz: Yeah...
Christine Schiefer: We didn't do this. Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah. New York, Texas. I was looking for all of it and it didn't, didn't.
Christine Schiefer: My bad.
Em Schulz: Whatever. We'll see in the fall, I guess. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I guess so. But no promises 'cause again, we don't control it.
Em Schulz: Umm, but anyway, wanted to say that because we're famous for telling you that we're going on tour with like one date left, so.
Christine Schiefer: That's, that's true.
Em Schulz: Umm, so please, please come and we'll probably be making announcements throughout the next couple episodes, just so to make sure everybody knows. So with that, uh, I, Christine and Christine's shoulders in that black tank top we all love, [laughter] are ready to, uh, tell you a story now that 20 minutes have passed. Are you ready, Christine?
Christine Schiefer: I'm so my, uh, can see my mouth now when I wear this.
Em Schulz: Oh my God. You're flexing. Christine stop. I'm like getting bothered. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Right. My flexing is not something I'm able to do, but yeah, sure. Flexing.
Em Schulz: Ever, by the way, ever since I mention your shoulders, I'm not trying to like, you know, sexualize you at all, but a lot of people have been writing in agreeing...
Christine Schiefer: I gotta say...
Em Schulz: There's some, there's something about that tank top.
Christine Schiefer: I gotta say. I'm like loving it only because I am so deeply insecure about my shoulders that I'm like, wow, okay. So we getting some love. That's nice.
Em Schulz: You've got the, you've got the queer girlies foaming at the mouth with those shoulders.
Christine Schiefer: It's literally the nicest thing ever 'cause again, I grew up with some commentary from people who shall not be named about like, oh, like the full shoulders of a football player and like, oh, you can't wear tank tops.
Em Schulz: Yeah, and you know what the queer girls are saying now? Hold me with those shoulders.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: So you're so strong like a linebacker or whatever they're called.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like yeah. A linebacker. Yeah. Anyway, so it's very kind. Thank you all for your love. And you, Em.
Em Schulz: Yeah, well, you know, I was the first to notice, but I'm glad...
Christine Schiefer: Its true.
Em Schulz: Everyone's has followed suit. So, umm, okay. You flex again if you want at any, at any moment. Okay. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: I don't wanna give it all away at once, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Where's the, where's, where's the, where's your, the door to your room? Can you point it for me? Where can you point out door?
Christine Schiefer: Why?
Em Schulz: Just give it a point.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Give it a point.
Christine Schiefer: I'm stupid. I'm like, why? It's right there.
Em Schulz: Wait, where, where is it? Hang on, I'm confused.
Christine Schiefer: Here. It's right here.
Em Schulz: Oh. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Here's a middle figure for you.
Em Schulz: I wanted to see that bicep one more time. Okay. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I don't have one.
Em Schulz: Apparently...
Christine Schiefer: But Okay.
Em Schulz: Apparently Christine is gonna just be a tease tonight. So...
Christine Schiefer: That's me.
Em Schulz: I've got a story for you that starts a little goofy and starts with a deep dive.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh.
Em Schulz: Because I can't control myself. Umm, this is in the UK and this is the story of Alton Towers.
Christine Schiefer: Okay. I've never heard of it.
Em Schulz: Alton Towers, when do you think Alton Towers, what do you think? What does it like sound like to you when I say the UK Alton Towers?
Christine Schiefer: It sounds like a dorm building to me.
Em Schulz: It sounds like, to me it sounds like castle-ly medievally. But home girl this is a...
Christine Schiefer: Oh. It sounds like somebody in the US trying to be... Like, like the Belvedere apartment. Like, you know, it sounds like something that's not fancy, but it's trying to be. But if you say it, you said it is in the UK, so yeah. It does sound more, umm, like it would be a real royal thing.
Em Schulz: Well, it's a theme park.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Thanks for letting me wander that path and like, just like letting me go.
Em Schulz: I really let you take the bait. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You did. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so it's a theme park. It's actually the UK's largest theme park, and it's a resort. It's so big that it also has three hotels connected to the amusement park.
Christine Schiefer: Is that where Peppa Pig world is?
Em Schulz: I didn't deep dive that far. I'm, maybe.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, come on. What kind of deep dive doesn't go all the way to Peppa Pig?
Em Schulz: I didn't even know Peppa Pig had a amusement park.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. Of course she does.
Em Schulz: Well, then Bluey is is hot on her tracks, so she better look out.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Well, Bluey's Australian, so maybe that'll be next. That probably does exist.
Em Schulz: If you's in Australia and there's a Bluey amusement park, I'm gonna need you to tell me about it. So.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so, okay. It's the UK's largest theme park. It's on over 900 acres.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: It has three hotels attached to it, and there are over 40 rides. But I did, you know, I wonder if that's true because I looked up its list of like, current attractions and I didn't see up to 40. Maybe this is in it's time.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe they're counting 40 as like every little thing.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I think so too, 'cause it, it looks like they've got about like 15, like main attractions.
Christine Schiefer: Right. Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, uh, but at least before COVID, I don't know the numbers now, but like 3 million people come to this thing every year, is a...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: Hot commodity in the UK. I've never heard of it, but, umm, it opened in...
Christine Schiefer: I thought it was a dorm building, a shitty dorm building with rats infesting it. So clearly I also have not been...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, it opened in 1980, umm, and it featured when it first opened, it featured the Cork Screw.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh.
Em Schulz: Which was UK's first ever double loop rollercoaster.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Holy shit. A double loop de loop?
Em Schulz: A a loop de loop. Yep. And, uh, that's it. That's what a loop de loop is, right? It's a, it's a double loop.
Christine Schiefer: Whoa is it?
Em Schulz: Loop de loop.
Christine Schiefer: I am so stupid.
Em Schulz: Umm, and the Alton Towers has also broken several other records with their rides, including Oblivion, which is the world's first dive coaster. Now here's speaking of dive, here's my deep dive on roller coasters for you.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm...
Christine Schiefer: We almost made this a rollercoaster podcast, you guys. Like, not even shitting you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And was like, we could do like abandoned theme parks podcast, and I was like, okay.
Em Schulz: That's true. I did suggest it a long time ago.
Christine Schiefer: You did.
Em Schulz: So oblivion. I'm sorry, Oblivion is the...
Christine Schiefer: Oblivion.
Em Schulz: World's first, world's first, not UK, world's first dive coaster. So I was like, what's a dive coaster?
Christine Schiefer: What is a dive coaster?
Em Schulz: Umm, it is, so, you know, when you're on a roller coaster and then it's like you like climb up, up, up, up, up. And then you're about to like, essentially dive off?
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: So, like, I know a lot of rollercoasters do that, but a dive coaster is one that does that. Umm, but there are more than 4 people in one row, so it's like a really wide rollercoaster that dives over the edge.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, okay. Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, then there's TH13TEEN and it's spelled with like numbers in it because it's so cool.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's lit.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and it's the world's first vertical free-fall drop mid-rollercoaster, which is like...
Christine Schiefer: No, thank you.
Em Schulz: A rollercoaster on a track and then drops and then like lands on another track and keeps going.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, wait, I just did that on I-71 North. Umm...
Em Schulz: Oh. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It was like probably the scariest thing I've ever done, and I don't recommend it.
Em Schulz: Next time you caption a picture about that, make sure you use numbers. So it looks really cool. You know?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Happily.
Em Schulz: Then there's Galactica, which was the world's first, uh, B&M flying coaster. And those are the coasters where, umm, where you're like...
Christine Schiefer: It's like hanging?
Em Schulz: No, it's like, umm, like at Six Flags where they have the Superman where you're like, your tummy is...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, when you lay down.
Em Schulz: Yeah, you're parallel to the ground, so it looks like you're flying.
Christine Schiefer: That's kind of cool. Actually. I do kind of like those.
Em Schulz: And then there's Nemesis, which is...
Christine Schiefer: I should be guessing, these all sound like albums from Zak Bagan's.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: The next one's called Immortal Portal. No.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so Nemesis is just Europe's very first inverted roller coaster.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: So an inverted roller coaster is instead of you sitting in the thing on a track...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: It's when the track is above you and your toesies are hanging.
Christine Schiefer: Those are kind of fun.
Em Schulz: But there, there's rollercoasters like that are called inverted and suspended. Inverted are the ones where you are very solidly bolted to the track above you. Whereas suspended is like you are attached to a thing that's attached to it's, it doesn't matter. It's to oversimplify. It's the one where your toes are hanging over.
Christine Schiefer: Got it. Okay.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then the last one is The Smiler, which is ironic...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, why is that the scariest name ever? Like all of these, that's the scariest one so far to me.
Em Schulz: It's also ironic 'cause like you're not gonna be smiling by the end.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: Umm, it's the world's... It's the rollercoaster with the world's most inversions. It's broken the record for the most inversions. And I was like, what's an inversion?
Christine Schiefer: Like going upside down?
Em Schulz: An inversion is anytime you're upside down. So it doesn't have to be a loop. It can be the times where like you kind of twist and you're upside down for a second or...
Christine Schiefer: Okay. Okay. You're just getting like whiplashed all around.
Em Schulz: Anytime your head is is...
Christine Schiefer: I don't love, I don't love that.
Em Schulz: Upside down.
Christine Schiefer: If someone's wondering.
Em Schulz: On the Smiler you go upside down 14 times. My POTS could never.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no.
Em Schulz: But when I had my SVT I could have really used this. So, umm...
Christine Schiefer: Honestly, that's a great point. Just hang you upside down. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Eva, get me to The Smiler. Umm, and then it's also the world's first infinity coaster. And an infinity coaster holds more people for a longer track and it can move forwards and backwards and does all sorts of drops and...
Christine Schiefer: Whoa.
Em Schulz: Anyway, there's my deep dive on the five record breaking rollercoasters at Alton Towers.
Christine Schiefer: We could, I mean, listen, look, you're living out your dreams of doing a, uh, rollercoaster podcast.
Em Schulz: I honestly, I, I would like a pat on the back for, umm, resisting the urge to, umm, fall really deep into hyper fixating on rollercoaster fun facts for this.
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it sounds like you were already really busy with your other hyper fixation. So, umm...
Em Schulz: With my Waffle House menu marking system, I know, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like I think, I think like maybe there just wasn't room for that.
Em Schulz: Next week though. I might be showing up with a lot of weird rollercoaster trivia all of a sudden. And you're gonna have to endure.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's be like just so random. You're just gonna casually throw them into conversation. We're gonna know.
Em Schulz: And you're gonna love it and you're gonna love it. So...
Christine Schiefer: You're gonna love it.
Em Schulz: At least someone out there will. So Alton Towers is like big deal rollercoaster, uh, theme park. And originally before was ever a rollercoaster, it was the site of, umm, it was, uh, it was used during the Iron Age, so like a 1000 BC and it was allegedly cursed by long forgotten magic. Which feels like this is just the amusement park's history to this so far.
Christine Schiefer: The lore of the amusement park. [laughter] Yes, it does. Especially with names like oblivion, you know, they're like, oh, this is all from some forgotten magic.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: It feels like it's like part of the brand, but whatever.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, so I, going all the way back, umm, in 700 AD this site belonged to the Saxons, then it belonged to the Normans and William the Conqueror, who we have talked about during our Tower of London episode.
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: Umm, and in the 15th century, this land was given to the Talbot family. Umm, they were the Earls of Shrewsbury.
Christine Schiefer: See how, what I mean though, when you say Talbots and here in the US it's like, oh, it's like...
Em Schulz: A store?
Christine Schiefer: A Kenwood, Kenwood mall. And then there it's like, oh, it's like very famous royal rich, rich fancy people. So.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Anyway, just a, just an observation.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, another observation is I can't ever talk about a place in the UK without saying something like the Earls of Shrewsbury. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Shrewsbury. [laughter] And then when, when English people are like, don't make fun of us, I'm like, but it's so easy.
Em Schulz: It's so easy.
Christine Schiefer: You can make fun of us so easily too, but...
Em Schulz: Yeah. Like, we're American.
Christine Schiefer: The Earls of Shrewsbury, come on.
Em Schulz: Like, you, it's like fish in a barrel making fun of us. Like, let us have this.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Let us have one, one thing.
Em Schulz: Umm, also speaking of which, if we were to tie the history of this place back into the amusement park as an homage, the Earls of Shrewsbury would be the coolest pub at this, uh, at this amusement park.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Think about the possibilities. Let's capitalize on it.
Em Schulz: What are they called... The, like the, the, the October Fest mugs?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, stein. A beer stein.
Em Schulz: A Stein. I feel like you could get a good stein at the Earls of Shrewsbury.
Christine Schiefer: That was actually my first thought also. Like one of those beer steins with like, oh, with like their, umm, coat of arms on it, you know, like an old timey...
Em Schulz: Huh huh stop. Stop it.
Christine Schiefer: Wow you just busted out the stop. What is that called when you break the volume on the microphone?
Em Schulz: Did I? I'm sorry. I was also looking at your shoulders at the same time. So that probably just combination of reactions.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that's on, that's on you. Okay. Be more careful.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just kidding.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, so the, uh, yeah, so the Earls of Shrewsbury, uh, got this land in the 15th century, and they had this land all the way until 1924. So they had it for 500 years.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, Jesus. Okay.
Em Schulz: Umm, in the late 1600s, there was a, a house on this land at the time that the Talbots owned. Umm, and they built onto it over time. And by the 1800s, they were still adding additions to this thing. So imagine two centuries of just adding to this. It's giving Winchester Mystery House.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It is actually.
Em Schulz: And, uh, eventually they ended up having one of the best homes and one of the finest gardens in all of Europe. Because I mean...
Christine Schiefer: All of Shrewsbury.
Em Schulz: Of Shrewsbury. Well, if you're working on it for 200 years, it better be good. Can you imagine if it was still ranked as like's, say the trashiest place?
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, gimme a break.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. So the Earls, umm, they favored the Gothic Revival style, and so the property started looking very medieval and it became known as The Towers, which I feel like we could have gotten more creative. But okay.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. It's like, it has its like, umm, intended effect where it's like, wow, what a vague...
Em Schulz: It's imposing.
Christine Schiefer: An imposing name. Yeah. It's like vague enough where you're like, ooh. But, umm, but yeah, it's not that creative.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I, well, I guess when, you know, you've owned the property for 500 years and you've had all that time to think of a name, maybe you just have to fucking throw dart to the wall and...
Christine Schiefer: You just circle back to the beginning. Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I get it.
Em Schulz: So when the Saxons owned the land, one of the kings actually went mad here and cursed the land before the Talbots ever got there.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: Umm, during the Earl's renovations, I got no context for this, but apparently they also cursed the land. I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: Umm, wait does that cancel out the first one?
Em Schulz: I feel like that's two stories I'm not giving information on, but I don't have any information on it. So, umm, yeah. So now the building has been cursed twice by both of its owners. Umm, some say the curse began in the 1800, in the 1820s, some say it happened in the 1840s, and either the 15th Earl or the 16th Earl Talbot, uh, are responsible for this curse. And pretty much the story goes that the Earl was, uh, in his coach heading to, uh, heading to the house when a woman stopped him nearby. And this woman goes up to the Earl, she asks if he can spare a farthing, which by the way is the price of a quarter of a penny.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So I would've to charge her four times for the ugly tax.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: But despite his wealth and ability to give her literally 0.25 cents, umm, he says no and continues to drive on. She's pissed because...
Christine Schiefer: I love how he takes the time to stop to talk to her.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Like, why you even stop?
Em Schulz: Like, what? Was there a red light? You know? [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's like, it's like the equivalent of if you walked up to somebody who was, you know, experiencing homelessness, and you were like, "Hey, like, what's up? What do you want?" And they're like, "Hey, do you have like something for me to like eat or drink or like a couple bucks?" And you're like, "No, bye."
Em Schulz: Yeah. Right.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, well, why are you even, you're being an asshole intentionally in the face.
Em Schulz: Well, she clearly had the same opinion. She, she felt the same way because as he drove away, she points at an oak tree nearby...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And she tells him that every time a branch falls from that tree, one of his relatives is gonna die.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, wow. That's...
Em Schulz: So she said...
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: I bet you really wish you gave me quarter of a penny.
Christine Schiefer: That penny.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That's right.
Em Schulz: Umm, and the next night there was a freak storm, and one of his relatives died, got sick and died.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: During this night. And when the Earl went out to the woods again, he saw a branch had come down from that tree.
Christine Schiefer: Oh boy.
Em Schulz: Which like, could have just been from the freak storm, but it was coincidental enough to freak him out. So he had his men chain the trees branches in place so that the branches could never fall again.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, yeah. Nothing to see here. Don't worry about it.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I have my reasons.
Em Schulz: I feel like if they've broken off the tree, that's still not good.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, no, it's not a no. He's, I feel like he's trying to play with fire here.
Em Schulz: I, I, well, you know what's super eerie about this though is to this day, that tree has chains all over this branches.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] Are you serious?
Em Schulz: Isn't that funky?
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, that just gave you the creeps.
Em Schulz: I wonder like what her tag is on Instagram, like her location tag, you know? Is it just like...
Christine Schiefer: The tree?
Em Schulz: Yeah. You know, people go and take pictures of this like, lore tree, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I wonder.
Em Schulz: I like to think her location is, what the fuck is this creepy ass tree? You know?
Christine Schiefer: Like also get these chains off me. I'm a tree. Leave me alone.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I'm wondering, like, it's interesting that the town has appreciated the lore and respected it and no one's just taken the chains off by now. Like, you know, there's a, a teenager in the last several 100 years who was like, let's go take the chains off.
Christine Schiefer: A teenager would do it. 'Cause I was thinking like, it would be a little daunting to be the one to take them off, 'cause you're like, well, I don't wanna mess with the curse, you know, but a teenager I could see like fucking around.
Em Schulz: Also I wonder who, like ancestry wise, like who is the, the current Talbot, do they know about the tree?
Christine Schiefer: And does it hold after he died? Is it like still in play or is like the curse now null and void?
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: You know? So many questions.
Em Schulz: Anyway, I'll, I'll, I'll let you know when I talk to the witch, so...
Christine Schiefer: Thank you.
Em Schulz: Umm, so anyway, by the 1860s, uh, the 18th Earl of Shrewsbury finally decides to open the tower up to the public because it is so big and marvelous and grandiose.
Christine Schiefer: Well, so gracious, my Lord, to let me look inside your beautiful palace.
Em Schulz: And charge, [laughter] charge people...
Christine Schiefer: Of course. Right. Sure.
Em Schulz: So, uh, he, but he starts hosting...
Christine Schiefer: I've seen Downton Abbey. I know how this works and they're just trying to make money because they are getting broke. Okay? I know what's going on.
Em Schulz: Well, actually it was, this was during a time when a lot of people were starting to have financial upheavals. So...
Christine Schiefer: Here we go. I told you I watched a Downton Abbey movie on the airplane. I know all about this.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Here she comes, historian Christine.
Christine Schiefer: Consider me an expert. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Well, so he starts hosting live shows there. He starts letting people perform music there. Um, the gardens are really pretty. So you know, people are going to go see the gardens, and until the early 1900s, so that's like 40, 50 years in. Sections of the tower, as you said, they were losing money and even having people come see the gardens and everything wasn't enough. And the property started being sold section by section until the newest Earl there was like, all right, let's just sell the whole thing. And by 19, at 1924, that was when the last piece of the land was sold off after hundreds of years of the Earls of Shrewsbury owning the land.
Christine Schiefer: Wow.
Em Schulz: The land then became a World War II training camp for a little bit, but then it went back to becoming a popular tourist attraction with the gardens and everything. And in 1980, it opened as a theme park. So that's...
Christine Schiefer: Can you, sometimes I wonder about that and there's no real answer to this, but what do you think the people who lived there and were like so proud of their like hermitage and like just having this estate and this tower and they've spent hundreds, their family legacy and they just imagine it's gonna go on forever. If they got a glimpse into like a hundred years from now, there's going to be a kid vomiting cotton candy all over the sidewalk, [laughter] like where your dog sleeps or where your hunting dogs sleep.
Em Schulz: I know.
Christine Schiefer: I don't know. It's just so weird to me to think what would they think?
Em Schulz: I have no idea. And I wonder like would... Not to get even like trippier, but like would they even know what a theme park was? Like what was...
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. That's what, exactly.
Em Schulz: Like if you told them like a roller, like the Oblivion is gonna be in your bedroom.
Christine Schiefer: The first converted rollercoaster. [laughter] You're like wait, what? [laughter] The total drop from 500 yards in the sky or whatever. And then it makes me, of course, start thinking, well, in 100 years, we can't even fathom then what what is gonna be on what piece of land. Anyway, then I spiral, so.
Em Schulz: Well, I mean, hey, let's continue because I...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, let's keep...
Em Schulz: Let's keep spiraling. Let's keep this party going 'cause...
Christine Schiefer: Great, great, great, great.
Em Schulz: I've even said before like, well, we've talked about it before on the show of like where I'm sitting right now like, there could have been a dinosaur walking through here.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. I mean for real. I think about, yes, okay. Thank you. You get it.
Em Schulz: And then like the, in, you know, 100 years from now, the equivalent to the Oblivion is like where I'm sitting. Like it's, it's wild how at the end of the day, land is just is just land is just land, and like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You just don't know.
Em Schulz: And it's not even our fucking land.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, certainly not.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: So like just to add that into the twist of this.
Christine Schiefer: No, farthest from it. Right.
Em Schulz: But like it's, it's wild that at the end it's like so much history can happen in one spot and it could all just also be totally erased like that.
Christine Schiefer: And there's just no way to even imagine or know what could possibly be coming down the pike.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Umm, I like to imagine something like the oblivion would be where I am.
Christine Schiefer: But, Em, Em will come back to haunt. If it, if it's the oblivion, I'm just gonna be like I'm on that, I first dibs on that rollercoaster.
Em Schulz: Okay. But perfect would be, it would be perfect if it was like the haunted mansion, right? Like and then you got to be a ghost on your property while it is branded as haunted.
Christine Schiefer: Interesting.
Em Schulz: That would be fun.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Fair point. Actually, pretty, pretty on point. I like it.
Em Schulz: There's some, there's some pretty convenient places to be haunted. Zak's Museum in Vegas. Imagine if you used to live on that property and then died and was haunting the area and you were oh, if only I had some friends that were also ghosts that could be nearby. And then they build a fucking ghost house on you.
Christine Schiefer: But what a danger zone, 'cause you're if only I had a friend. And then it's how about 600 creepy clown doll friends?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: You're overstaying your welcome. I meant every now and then.
Christine Schiefer: This is my house, but okay.
Em Schulz: Anyway, I think there's some places that it could really work. Like be a good time you know?
Christine Schiefer: I'm glad you understand what I'm saying.
Em Schulz: What if you're a dog, what if you're a dog and then you die and then they build like a puppy rescue where you used to live. And now you've just...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: You get to keep haunting the place with all these little puppy friends.
Christine Schiefer: I think you've just finally like calmed my spiral anxiety that I have when this goes on. And I'll say, oh, okay. Maybe it'll be a safe haven for puppies one day. And end of thought, end of spiral.
Em Schulz: But then I'm not on the first floor right now. So when that puppy building is created, I'm currently in the sky. So I'm like I'm would I be haunting the puppy haven or would I be haunting the sky above? And that's what they're always fucking looking at up there. Just me just floating around trying to haunt them.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. That's what they're staring at. I knew it was ghosts.
Em Schulz: We've spiraled again. We've spiraled again. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Oh shit. I didn't even notice.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I'm back. Sorry.
Em Schulz: Okay. So we kinda actually just touched on this because I don't know how we got there, but we did find our way.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, you tell me. I have no idea what you're about to say.
Em Schulz: So in 1980, the place opened as a theme park called Alton Towers. And stories about the rollercoasters, like the the lore about the, the theme of a lot of the rollercoasters actually have to do with the history of the towers. So for example...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, I was going to ask that. Okay, cool.
Em Schulz: Just like how I was saying like the Earl's of Shrewsbury pub, you know? So...
Christine Schiefer: That, yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fine.
Em Schulz: They have a ride called, or I don't even know if it's still there anymore, but at some point there was a ride there called Hex, the Legend of the Towers. And it's the lore of the chained oak tree. That's like the story in the...
Christine Schiefer: Okay, I fucking love that.
Em Schulz: Right? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I love that. That's actually really fun.
Em Schulz: I like, I would like to imagine that if it is a rollercoaster about a haunted tree, then you have to be a little squirrel or something and you're in the tree. No?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You're just like rolling around the branches. That, I mean listen, I am all about this. I like that they're leaning into it. I do.
Em Schulz: Ironically, this ride is said to be haunted, which...
Christine Schiefer: Well...
Em Schulz: I feel like that means it just breaks down a lot. And they're just kind of saying.
Christine Schiefer: Ooh, it's the ghost.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Don't look at the man with the wrench [laughter] behind the curtains. [laughter] It's the hex is back.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Now that was good. Now that was a good, now that was a...
Christine Schiefer: So Stupid.
Em Schulz: Joke landed. Joke landed. So...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Can I tell you something so funny? Can I tell you something that has nothing to do with anything?
Christine Schiefer: Please. Please.
Em Schulz: We went to, umm, we went to a play recently. You would've eaten it up. We went to a play of Catch Me If You Can, and...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp] What?
Em Schulz: Our, our friend is in it. And Allison and I were sitting next to each other. And it was, it was of course the only moment in like a two and a half hour play where it was dead silent.
Christine Schiefer: Oh no. Oh no.
Em Schulz: And Allison's stomach like, like it was like it, [laughter] like everyone around us looked at her like it was like not well hidden. And it was like...
Christine Schiefer: Like are you okay?
Em Schulz: Easily...
Christine Schiefer: Like they're worried.
Em Schulz: I've never heard it that loud or that long. It was literally like her stomach had a solo. Like...
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: It was, I'm not, I'm not kidding. I know I'm usually dramatic.
Christine Schiefer: Poor thing.
Em Schulz: No hyperbole. This stomach sound happened for like 30 long seconds and it sounded truly like someone was moving furniture upstairs. Like it was the loudest sound...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no.
Em Schulz: In the world. And Allison, her face, 'cause she's trapped, like you can't go anywhere. So she's just sitting there taking the heat knowing that everyone can hear...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And she's like, they're like genuinely worried for her wellbeing. She's like, I'm fine.
Em Schulz: People, there were people looking at her and then like, like back at the stage, 'cause they didn't want her to know that. They could obviously hear, but it sounded...
Christine Schiefer: I just wanted to check.
Em Schulz: It sounded like a TV belch. [laughter] Like it just like was the grossest sound. And it was when everything was silent, even the actors on stage had to have heard it, 'cause we were close.
Christine Schiefer: Poor Al.
Em Schulz: Oh, it was so awful. Anyway, you just made me laugh like I wanted to in that theater, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh good.
Em Schulz: I finally got to release it. That's what happened. Okay, sorry for the people who hate banter, thus this is where we've gone apparently.
Christine Schiefer: My bad.
Em Schulz: So Alton Towers is said to be haunted. There are, umm, a lot of places that still have original, uh, foundations of the building there or original parts of the building there. And visitors have often seen people in Victorian era clothing walking around and throwing things at guests, including rocks.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Oh! Whoa. That's, that's like, you are like, oh, what a cool reenactment. And then they chuck a rock at you and you're like, okay. Jesus.
Em Schulz: Also, like, was that their version of fun before there was an amusement park here? They just threw rocks?
Christine Schiefer: Great question. Or is that like what they would do if like peasants came toward their property? They're like, get away. You know?
Em Schulz: Shoo, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Shoo.
Em Schulz: Imagine if you gave them a hoop and stick.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, the delight.
Em Schulz: They wouldn't be throwing rocksy anymore, would they? Something to do with those hands.
Christine Schiefer: Oh they're merrymaking. The merrymaking they would've had.
Em Schulz: The Merrymaking.
Christine Schiefer: Or made, I guess.
Em Schulz: That's their version of an amusement park. Just give them a hoop and stick in a hill...
Christine Schiefer: Some rocks.
Em Schulz: They're gonna lose their minds.
Christine Schiefer: What else do you need? A marble maybe, and you're set.
Em Schulz: There's also apparently the apparition of a man that haunts, uh, the banquet hall, which I don't know why it's not called the Earls of Shrewsbury, but okay.
Christine Schiefer: Not acceptable, but yeah.
Em Schulz: And people feel his very looming presence. They hear heavy footsteps when they sense him, and they've also seen dark figures appear and vanish.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And after seeing Harry Potter World, I just don't know what's real anymore. Like I feel like if I was told that that place was haunted, I'd be like, one, is it part of the lore? And two, even if it's really haunted, the rest of the special effects here are so good, I can't tell if that was a ghost.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And like if you ask how can you trust that they're not just like playing along like...
Em Schulz: Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, there's no, you know, but like, that reminds me of when I was at, uh, where I saw the ghost of Mr. Whaley at the Whaley House and I was like, oh, that's fun. That's part of the reenactment, you know?
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And they were, I didn't believe them. I was like, well, why would, they would tell me, you know? No, that's just a ghost. But like...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: It's hard to say.
Em Schulz: In 2007, investigators went in, umm, which I love that they got to meet in an amusement park at night.
Christine Schiefer: That's, I mean, that's the, that's the ultimate dream.
Em Schulz: It's the dream. Umm, and their medium sensed a large man wearing a hood who is always angry, and shockingly...
Christine Schiefer: Oh good.
Em Schulz: He's not the one that throws rocks at people, so.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, Oh. No, he sounds like an executioner, doesn't he? Like a hooded man?
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Right? An angry hooded man. I don't like that. You have to be angry to be able to kill people for a living.
Christine Schiefer: I would imagine it has to be a part of your nature. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Uh, one, uh, one a member on that investigation team also walked out that night with scratches all over their head. And, uh, a woman has been seen wearing a long, dark dress and she appears very, very real people smell a perfume that follows her. And one employee actually thought that she was a park visitor who tried to stay after closing.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: So he ran up to her, told her to leave, and then she faded away in front of him, which like she did exactly what he said.
Christine Schiefer: That's true. Like he should have, I hope he's happy.
Em Schulz: Leave, okay. Poof. Bye. Some people think she was actually the governess who managed the estate, which she has to be looking around now going, I have lost control. Like what is this?
Christine Schiefer: Who's managing the estate? She wakes up one morning and is like, wait, what the fuck happened overnight? Oh no.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Umm, the guy who bought Alton Towers in the 1920s, his great grandson has blogged about the hauntings his family has seen on the property.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's fun.
Em Schulz: His name is Will and he grew up there. He or he didn't grow up, grow up there, but he spent a lot of time there as a child. Umm, his family also stayed there a lot. Umm, and he said that there is just too much evidence over the years that his family has caught, it is definitely haunted.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Uh, he said the gardener there actually used to see a man all the time in the gardens with him wearing medieval clothing, and he thought that this guy was like, in cosplay or like a reenactor or something. And, uh...
Christine Schiefer: She like, thought his grandpa like, [laughter] hired an actor to just wander around the yard?
Em Schulz: Yeah, I was like, was this during...
Christine Schiefer: Is this a normal thing that happens?
Em Schulz: Amusement park time or?
Christine Schiefer: Is this like a thing people do over there?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: He was always wearing medieval clothes and the gardener would always try to wave at him and like, talk to him.
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: And the guy never waved back. And so he was like, what the fuck is this guy's deal? Like he's dressed weird and he won't be polite. That's a crazy combo.
Christine Schiefer: He's kind of an asshole. Yeah.
Em Schulz: And so after years of trying to interact with this man, the gardener started noticing like, wait a minute, that man has never aged. What is going on? Like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh weird. Ew. Oh, so this whole time he's been seeing him. Oh ew.
Em Schulz: Imagine for years waving to somebody, like get the hint, like read the room.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: Read the room. Read the room.
Christine Schiefer: Umm...
Em Schulz: But yeah, for, I mean, long enough that he was like, this guy isn't aging, something's going on.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I would say.
Em Schulz: Umm, after years of... Yeah, of trying to interact with him, realized he wasn't aging. Another time there was a catering manager who was noticing that dishes would go missing and then reappear in odd places, which I hate that.
Christine Schiefer: That's not good.
Em Schulz: And in the '60s and '70s, which I think still up to now, there was a gift shop that had a poltergeist.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And no matter how many times the store clerks would move them back, a whole collection of dolls would, would move themselves on the shelves to always be facing the wrong way.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. Ah. You know, I hate that. Yuck.
Em Schulz: Facing the wall. And then every time you turn them back, you come in the next day, they're turned back again.
Christine Schiefer: Yucko. Ooh.
Em Schulz: Then one day the gift shops like several boxes of little toy soldiers, all of them were removed from their boxes and scattered all over the floor. And only the ones holding weapons were all face down, dead, as if dead.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck? [laughter] What the fuck?
Em Schulz: But then all the ones who weren't, who weren't holding weapons were standing up. So it's giving pacifist like...
Christine Schiefer: I suppose in like a weird backhanded way.
Em Schulz: In a weird way.
Christine Schiefer: Like I murdered all the one... I'm a pacifist, I murdered all the people with weapons. They're dead now.
Em Schulz: I feel like there's some sort of symbolism there that I'm not picking up on.
Christine Schiefer: I suppose. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Other dolls here would disappear and reappear, they'd move on their own. They would also be taken out of their boxes. There were dolls in the store that would be dressed up by, ran, like by unseen hands throughout the night where people would walk in the next day...
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: And the dolls would have jewelry on them or they would have books in their lap like they were reading.
Christine Schiefer: Do you think it's a kid?
Em Schulz: I feel like it has to be a kid. Like I feel like it has to be a kid dressing up a little stuffed animal.
Christine Schiefer: Right? And like playing with toy soldiers and stuff. I mean, it sounds like a kid would, I mean, again, like we've talked about this a million times, but like where would you haunt? I would haunt a gift shop, obviously. Like what a delightful place to haunt.
Em Schulz: It's not, it's not the worst place. I bet it's air conditioned.
Christine Schiefer: True. Lots of toys.
Em Schulz: Umm, lots of toys. Umm, but also like maybe poltergeist-y 'cause like the dolls keep rearranging themselves in like creepy ways.
Christine Schiefer: The turning themselves around is like unsettling. Yeah. That part feels kind of sinister.
Em Schulz: Also books that were in the gift shop, their pages would get ripped out and left all over the floor.
Christine Schiefer: Ew.
Em Schulz: And that, again, we've talked about this, but like, do you think the books are actually, like, the pages are tearing themselves?
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Or you blink and then the pages all of a sudden are on the floor.
Christine Schiefer: Is it like they're just transporting. God, I wish I knew...
Em Schulz: One time, the catering... One time the catering manager came in and found only specific letters from pages had been ripped out of a book.
Christine Schiefer: They're like, I've been trying to send you a fucking message and no one's reading into it. So I guess I'll have to...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Ransom-note this.
Em Schulz: Well, so the letter spelled out Dolly...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And Dolly was the catering manager's nickname as a kid.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God. What the fuck?
Em Schulz: So like, was it something following her, like, what, you know, like what was that? And also apparently it was a nickname from a dark time in her childhood. So it's like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh no, I was gonna say, is that like a comforting thing? But doesn't sound like it.
Em Schulz: But so it's almost like, is it a dark thing from that time period? Or is it like trying to like poke at her...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like is using you, yeah. Using your weaknesses.
Em Schulz: Also on the property Will's aunt and uncle and their kid stayed on, uh, stayed there for a while, their house, you could overlook the property and see the old chained up tree from, from their house.
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: And one night their daughter whose room faced the tree directly woke up screaming.
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And the next night, her mom decided to sleep in the room to see what she was so scared of. And this mom, her name's Annie, she woke up in the middle of the night, uh, to the room being ice cold. She felt the need to keep her eyes closed because something was in the room with her. And she could see, or she could sense something dark standing over her bed and she could sense that it had, it was like it had, it was not human. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: She could smell the scent of something she'd only smelled before in the old towers nearby. She felt breath on her neck and she got the weird feeling that this thing had four legs.
Christine Schiefer: Ew. I like how it, it probably is like deciding what to tell her. You know what I mean? Like, it's probably like...
Em Schulz: Yeah, oh.
Christine Schiefer: And I'd like four legs. So we'll tell her that.
Em Schulz: That's your alien brain where you're like, oh, they can communicate with you in your head. It's like...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like, oh, you wanna imagine what's going on here? Okay. Four legs.
Christine Schiefer: It's, it's...
Em Schulz: It's we're straddling the bed over you.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, you don't have to open your eyes. I'll still tell you. Ugh.
Em Schulz: Well, so she finally got the nerve to open her eyes and nothing was there except on either side of her were two indents on the bed, as if four legs were standing over her.
Christine Schiefer: Ah!
Em Schulz: So two, like on her left side, two imprints of feet...
Christine Schiefer: That's fucking gross.
Em Schulz: On the right side, two imprints of feet.
Christine Schiefer: So it was like, standing with the bed between its legs.
Em Schulz: Literally standing over her on the bed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh that's horrific. That's horrific.
Em Schulz: Then, then the indents started moving on their own. They would disappear and reappear as if the creature and all four legs were stomping on her bed.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Ew. It was like, I'm still here.
Em Schulz: Ooh. Umm, she pulled an Em and although she wasn't religious, she said something about Jesus. [laughter] And the creature's energy went away immediately. I'm telling you, it works. I don't know what it is.
Christine Schiefer: It must work. It must work. I'll give you that.
Em Schulz: So I'm imagining a story happened in between here, but the chief of police finds out this place is haunted, and he decides to get to the bottom of things. So he asks if he can stay the whole night by himself in the towers, but he flees in the middle of the night after he heard footsteps banging and his dog started growling and like the fur on his back raised.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, if the police dog is upset, I'm like, uh, I don't feel safe here.
Em Schulz: Yeah. If the trained dog is freaking out, let's all get out. Umm...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: There was also another paranormal investigator that came through, and this is probably my favorite thing I've ever said in any episode. Umm, a paranormal investigator came through, was walking into the guest, the gift shop that's like super haunted and had a feeling, had a weird feeling, and approached the people who worked there and said, have any gay people been here recently?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What? [laughter]
Em Schulz: Said have any children...
Christine Schiefer: I'm on the hunt.
Em Schulz: Have any children or gay people been here recently? And they said, oh, actually, a gay couple not only used to like work this place for several years, but they lived on the property, which I, it's so cottage core lesbian, I can't even handle it.
Christine Schiefer: Oh. Fo sho. Yes.
Em Schulz: They literally lived in a cottage nearby. Like so gay.
Christine Schiefer: Sounds idyllic.
Em Schulz: Umm, and with no explanation, the investigator went, oh, that makes sense because gay people attract poltergeists. I, again...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Pardon me.
Em Schulz: No explanation, but I gotta know where he's getting his findings.
Christine Schiefer: 'Cause I was gonna say children, I've heard the preteens, the hormones, the craziness, you know, of puberty can attract a poltergeist. What about gay people? They're chaotic energy? I don't...
Em Schulz: Is it that we're sinning or something? I like...
Christine Schiefer: Like what is it? That's weird.
Em Schulz: But also like, I love that even if that had no real like, sound logic behind it. I love that the queers love like, you know, ghosts and shit. Like, it works out very well for like, it's like, well, that's on brand.
Christine Schiefer: Maybe it's like a double like they're... It's like they're fulfilling their own prophecy. You know what I mean? Like, they're like, well...
Em Schulz: The ghosts love the gays. The gays love the ghosts.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. Like, why not?
Em Schulz: The girls and ghouls.
Christine Schiefer: Girls and the ghouls were all just having a party. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Which like, by the way, why was that never like our thing, like boozers and shakers. Why weren't we just the girls and the ghouls?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Girls and the ghouls. Hang on. Is it too late?
Em Schulz: The ghouls, the gays and the theys.
Christine Schiefer: The ghouls, gays, theys.
Em Schulz: I mean, well, we figured it out. I mean, it took like seven years. We got there.
Christine Schiefer: Finally.
Em Schulz: Umm, so another time Annie was finishing up work and uh, she smelled that familiar perfume and the room got really cold and she heard a loud thud. And this was when she was on her own. She heard a thud behind her and a book had fallen by itself.
Christine Schiefer: Mm.
Em Schulz: The book was titled, A Stranger is Watching.
Christine Schiefer: Ew! [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: This ghost loves his little word play. It is so creepy. [laughter]
Em Schulz: He feels gay. Like it feels, he's giving a little fabulous haunting. Like, he's like...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It's gonna be aesthetic. We're gonna love it. You know?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: He probably misses the...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Cottage core lesbians that used to work there. He's like hang on a second...
Christine Schiefer: Probably. Where did they go?
Em Schulz: I lost my people.
Christine Schiefer: God.
Em Schulz: So all of a... Annie suddenly gets this intense feeling that she needs to bring the book home, which...
Christine Schiefer: Oh.
Em Schulz: She should have not listened to that, I'm sure. But she brings it home and she thinks there's like a, a dark spirit or something that was connected to the book or attached to the book and tried to attach to her.
Christine Schiefer: Great.
Em Schulz: And her husband claims that he decided that he was gonna burn this book 'cause he was so freaked out about it. So he throws it into the bonfire...
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: And the book reappeared in the house later.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: The ghost was just begging him to throw in the fire. Do it. I dare you.
Em Schulz: Flaming.
Christine Schiefer: See what happens.
Em Schulz: No, I...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Flaming. Do it. Set it on fire, I dare you.
Em Schulz: I'm still here. So, uh, Annie's daughter then did a school project about the book, which, wow, I'm sure that didn't go well. And the teacher...
Christine Schiefer: But I love that for her. Delightful.
Em Schulz: The teacher asked if she could borrow the book and then never returned it. So some people think that she just destroyed the book herself.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Good.
Em Schulz: Because she was so freaked out about this kid's presentation.
Christine Schiefer: She put it in one of those free libraries, those little free libraries.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: Someone else's problem now.
Em Schulz: I feel like that's gonna be Leona's future one day. She's gonna bring in like a skull or something from your studio and the teacher's gonna be like, that's great, sweetie. Can I see that?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And then just like, fucking smash it.
Christine Schiefer: Lemme just hold it for a second. [laughter] Chuck it behind her. Yeah. Honestly, I don't doubt it.
Em Schulz: Also last thing I'll say is Will's family, they also apparently once walked past the old chained oak on their property and walked past a group of new age druids who were chanting and performing a sacrifice under the tree.
Christine Schiefer: Ohh-kay.
Em Schulz: And when they all noticed each other, the druids stopped chanting and silently stared at them until they walked away and out of sight.
Christine Schiefer: Ugh.
Em Schulz: And then went back to chanting.
Christine Schiefer: That's, sorry, scarier than any ghost as far as I'm concerned.
Em Schulz: That's also scarier than them like charging after you being like, you didn't see anything get away. Like to just death stare you on your own property is so violating in so many ways.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Like, they're like, we're not moving. You better move. I mean, okay, I'm out.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah. Oof.
Christine Schiefer: Oof.
Em Schulz: Anyway, apparently that's, that's the, the last big thing that Will reported. But that is, uh, the property of Alton Towers.
Christine Schiefer: Em, what a story.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
Christine Schiefer: And I can't believe we started with a theme park and then...
Em Schulz: I know. I really, I, man I really tried my hardest to say what I needed to say, do what I needed to do and not get hyper fixated on it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I'm proud of you. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Like tonight might be a different story.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. Now you have all the time in the world. Umm, that's crazy. Uh, I think to do a haunted investigation at a theme park is probably the pinnacle of what this podcast would consider success. So maybe...
Em Schulz: You know what?
Christine Schiefer: It'll happen someday.
Em Schulz: You said it, not me. Is this when I tell everybody that I've been, uh, looking at old home videos...
Christine Schiefer: [gasp]
Em Schulz: And I found out that I have a fucking Queen's accent when I was kid.
Christine Schiefer: It is.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Someone asks little Em like, hey, do you have any pets? And Em goes, a dog. [laughter]
Em Schulz: A dog.
Christine Schiefer: I have a dog.
Em Schulz: And like I, I'd been, so my parents used to have like really thick accents, and it just never occurred to me that I would pick up on that, but I had one until I moved to Virginia and like two or three years in it faded. But in the videos that I have, there's all these clips of me talking and walking and you know and good coffee.
Christine Schiefer: It is so cute, a little baby with that accent, it's honestly precious.
Em Schulz: Of all the accents I saw for myself, I did not see that, but whatever, I just sounded like Fran Drescher at 5, what else is new?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And like what could we ask for? Like what more could we ask for? What could be better? Umm...
Em Schulz: It was a gift even to me. I was like at 30 I'm finding out I had a fucking accent my whole life, anyway.
Christine Schiefer: You know, I didn't find out till I was like in my 20s that I had a German accent till I was about 6. I feel like if we put, I know I've already said this but like, put clips of you, clips of me with our little accents back to back like... We would have been quite a duo. I don't know what people would have made of the two of us, but it would have been a mess.
Em Schulz: Why are you talking like that? What do you do you doing?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you would have been like what's wrong with you?
[laughter]
Em Schulz: What hell is going on? Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Ahhh.
Em Schulz: Anyway I'm glad you liked our the rollercoaster extravaganza that was Alton Towers.
Christine Schiefer: I did, because I know how much you like it. You know, I'm like that's such an Em, an Em story. Well, Em...
Em Schulz: Tells us a Christine story now.
Christine Schiefer: Okay this is actually an Em story because...
Em Schulz: Ooh!
Christine Schiefer: I don't want you to be mad at me, but I'm covering something you've already covered but I'm just doing...
Em Schulz: You're sick.
Christine Schiefer: The, the crime part of it.
Em Schulz: Prison. Why? What did you do?
Christine Schiefer: This is the story of, say it in your accent, the Amityville Murders. [laughter]
Em Schulz: The horror, the Amityville horror.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: There it is. The horror. So...
Em Schulz: I don't know how to do it anymore, sorry to all New Yorkers listening. But okay, great, that hey we haven't covered that since like episode fucking four or something?
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say do you would have a guess what episode and it was indeed number four?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Good memory or like freakishly weird fun fact that you knew on the top of your head.
Em Schulz: Option B.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, can I tell you also that I listened to that episode yesterday, and...
Em Schulz: Uh. I'm sorry.
Christine Schiefer: Thank you, so much.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Don't say anything else I don't even wanna know.
Christine Schiefer: No, I can't, have to, it was, I was gonna take notes on your story and so I just took notes on the dumb shit we said. I was like this is outrageous.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Also my audio I was like talking, you had a mic, I was talking like my audio is going through the computer. I'm like we clearly didn't even figure out how to use a mixer and we were like, "Oh we have all these fans." like I don't know, it was just so embarrassing to listen to.
Em Schulz: What our mom? Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Literally, we said, "We thought our moms listened, but now we have real fans," and I'm like okay...
Em Schulz: I think we had like three people and that actually was three more than we ever thought.
Christine Schiefer: It was your cousin or something. Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: It's like one extra person who was your cousin.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so like good for us, but also the audio, oh my God, I was like clearly just talking through the computer and, umm, their...
Em Schulz: Also my research was shit back then so it's probably actually really good that we're doing a revamp, so.
Christine Schiefer: I gotta say I listened to the whole thing and I went, we really upped our research game. I don't know what we were doing back then but like clearly just reading Wikipedia or something.
Em Schulz: Remember when I used to write my notes on like fucking notepad paper?
Christine Schiefer: I literally have legal pad paper with your handwriting where you wrote, and like that was always impressive to me because that's a lot of work, to write it all by hand but then I...
Em Schulz: I don't know why I did that.
Christine Schiefer: Worked with what you'd said like, November of some year, I didn't write down the date, anyway, like what is wrong with us? Like we even wrote the date down and then... Anyway, it's just like it was just so cringy, you know?
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, I, I really, for the first like 100 episodes, I really would like to just wipe the slate and like no one's ever hearing them again.
Christine Schiefer: It's embarrassing, but I feel like it's part of the journey, you know?
Em Schulz: No. You know like the Disney vaults where they just put like...
Christine Schiefer: Oh God.
Em Schulz: Snow White in there or something?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Let's vault it.
Em Schulz: We should have a And That's Why We Drink vault where...
Christine Schiefer: We never open it. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Never open it up ever again.
Christine Schiefer: It's like what they would do to people torture them like brick them up into the walls, we'll just brick all our old episodes up into the walls.
Em Schulz: Brick up our notes.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Brick up our notes. Do you remember, oh, do you remember obviously none of us remember, but do you ever guess as to why we drank that week? It's a fun fact, that's for different reasons but...
Em Schulz: Probably something a lot less dramatic than...
Christine Schiefer: Oh I got it. It's so stupid.
Em Schulz: Near heart failure every day, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say, now we're like our hearts are giving out, my brakes are giving out well back then, apparently the reason I drink was because I was on Zillow and like houses are so expensive and I'm like houses in Los Angeles are like $600,000 and now I'm like, they've like probably tripled since then so nice...
Em Schulz: They sure have.
Christine Schiefer: Nice going and then you were saying like you know, I don't know, your reason for drinking was that you, this is not a joke. You said your reason for drinking is that you've been so busy you don't have time to get to the gym before work in the mornings and I'm like...
Em Schulz: You know...
Christine Schiefer: What?
Em Schulz: That was...
Christine Schiefer: And you know what you said? You said, well...
Em Schulz: What?
Christine Schiefer: Typically on a typical weekday, I like to run about five miles a day. And...
Em Schulz: Yeah, that was a different time.
Christine Schiefer: And I'm sitting here going, going, you ran five miles a day? Since when did you run five miles, that's more than a 5k?
Em Schulz: I... That was...
Christine Schiefer: I think one time I actually was like Em do you really run five miles a day? And you were like, "Well, on an elliptical." And I was like, okay, that's not the same.
Em Schulz: No, I would do half on an elliptical and then I do, I'd either walk the other half on the elliptical or I would do or like no not elliptical, sorry, the treadmill. I would do half on the treadmill and then I either walk the other half on the treadmill or I would do the second half if I was really tired that day on the elliptical.
Christine Schiefer: What a time?
Em Schulz: What a fucking time, that was like what? 60 pounds ago? Umm. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You literally complained that you didn't have time to run five miles a day and I'm sitting there listening to this going...
Em Schulz: Hey, same. Same. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: "Who are these people? Who are these people? I've never heard of them before." Umm...
Em Schulz: If we go back to 2017, let's let that Em know that I never get back to the gym so...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You... Yeah, sorry this is the end... The beginning of the end. Umm, you also said, "This dog hates me" about Gio. And the entire episode, you can just hear him clip clapping around, there's like so much noise, it's like the worst audio ever. Umm...
Em Schulz: This, let's take this moment then to really appreciate the OGs who still listen because the fact that you endured that, which...
Christine Schiefer: Really.
Em Schulz: Also is a testament to how far podcasting has come because maybe that was good back then like...
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say I don't think today that would have like cut through.
Em Schulz: That wouldn't have flown, no.
Christine Schiefer: No.
Em Schulz: I think in 2017 when, you know, not everyone had a podcast, it was...
Christine Schiefer: No, I think you're totally right.
Em Schulz: You just, you just listened to what you had. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: Because like, I remember googling, like how to set up podcasting equipment, there was not a single article. Like there was not no Wiki help, there was no like, here's an Amazon page on like, which mics to buy. None of that. There was nothing. So we had to like read the instruction manual, you know? [laughter] Like it was 1955 and like figure out, clearly we didn't even do that. Right? But...
Em Schulz: Well, thank you everybody who's been listening since then. And for some reason, despite all of the flaws, you really, you hunkered down. And it's still bad. You still listen. But it's nice that you've kept up.
Christine Schiefer: It;s still bad.
Em Schulz: I appreciate your dedication. That's all. Very real.
Christine Schiefer: We do. And honestly, like every time someone says, I've been listening since like the early days, I'm just shocked. I'm shocked.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, that sounds kind of like sad, but it's true. I'm like shaken to my core. Every time someone says like, oh no, I've been listening forever. Umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah. It still blows my mind. Or even when people now say, oh, I just found them and I've been binging the episode, which I'm very appreciative. But in today's world where there is better audio in, in first episodes, it's like...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Why did you listen to ours? And that was worth...
Christine Schiefer: And they're like I started from the beginning. I'm like, God bless. You know? You're, uh...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I mean listen.
Em Schulz: We appreciate you. You're the reason we have the lives we have today. You're the reason I stopped going to the gym. So, you know.
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
Em Schulz: Thank you.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: So you thank you so much.
Em Schulz: I would rather have all of you than ever run another five miles. So thank you.
Christine Schiefer: Also. Oh my God. Uh, me too. Not that that's hard to say, but me too. Umm.
Em Schulz: That was what lonely sad Em looked like. And now...
Christine Schiefer: Aw.
Em Schulz: Look at me. Look at me now.
Christine Schiefer: Look at you now. Look at you now. Uh, moving right along. This is the, uh, Amityville Murders, but it's the murders part. So you covered, you covered the ghost part. Umm, and I listened to that 'cause I wanted to make sure I wasn't like doubling, you know, any information or like just retelling the same story. But it is a different story 'cause, umm, you referenced the murder, but you didn't really like go into detail. So...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: That's what I'll do today. So we've got the notorious Amityville House of the Amityville Horror. I don't know how to do it. Horror.
Em Schulz: Horror.
Christine Schiefer: Horror.
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Horror. Okay. And it's on Long Island. On Long Island. I'm not gonna do anymore. I'm stopping.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: In New York.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And in this show, in the episode, you said, my dad claimed that he lived next door to it, but I don't think he's telling the truth, which is one of the funniest things you've said.
Em Schulz: I still...
Christine Schiefer: You stand by it.
Em Schulz: I still think that. Yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: He grew up, He grew up...
Christine Schiefer: You're like, my dad says he grew up on, or you're like, he grew up on Long Island. Is that right? That part's true?
Em Schulz: Yes. And he grew up near Amityville, but I...
Christine Schiefer: And you're like, he says he lives next door, but I don't think that part's true. Maybe not, anyway.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I, I don't believe that for a minute. But, umm...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It was a good story when I was 10, I was like, oh, shit that's...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, for sure. It's a great story. It's just now we have to be, you know, I just love that you already called it episode four. You're like, that's bullshit. I do run five miles a day, but my dad did not live next door to Amityville.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: And like one of, like, honestly, of those two sentences, I would more believe today that my, that my dad lived in the Amityville House or something than I ever ran.
Christine Schiefer: That's why I asked you, because I was like, did I miss something about like your exercise? Like back then, you, I didn't, it didn't even phase me when you said five miles, I was like, oh, cool. Now, I'm like...
Em Schulz: That was my prop house days. And you know?
Christine Schiefer: I see.
Em Schulz: Then I stopped...
Christine Schiefer: It's a different time.
Em Schulz: And then I started remote working, then drive... I don't drive to the gym anymore, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, sure.
Em Schulz: I blame you. So...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. You're welcome.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: You blamed everyone else who listened a minute ago, but I guess now it's my fault.
Em Schulz: Everyone but myself.
Christine Schiefer: Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Well, sure. The notorious Amityville House, uh, located on Long Island, New York. Now I'm gonna give you a quick background on the actual land. I know we've been talking about land today. So long before the house was built, which by the way, the address at the time was 112 Ocean Avenue, and it was built in the 1920s. Amityville had a storied, the area at least had a storied history of its own. So according to the Matinecock Tribal Nation, the island was home to 13 tribes of the Algonquian family, a group of peoples who spoke the Algonquian language and who still live on Long Island today. European Americans began colonizing the area in the 17th century when Amityville was founded as a settlement, but it wasn't fully incorporated as the Village of Amityville until 1894.
Em Schulz: Kay.
Christine Schiefer: So Ronald and Louise DeFeo, uh, are the couple that purchased this infamous house in late June of 1965. And the husband Ronald worked at a car dealership that his father-in-law owned. And the Defeos lived pretty comfortable lives, umm, Louise's father, so it almost feels like the father-in-law, like Ronald's father-in-law AKA Louise's father is sort of like... kind of had, I don't wanna say like in a negative way, but it seems like he has a lot of like, purchase in this relationship. Like...
Em Schulz: Gotcha.
Christine Schiefer: A lot of power. Like he hired his son-in-Law. He bought them the house. You know, it almost feels like he's kind of pulling the strings a little bit.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so reportedly he bought them the house so they could move out of their Brooklyn apartment. And he has also said to have given the family tens of thousands of dollars just as spending money. Umm, and they have these, which we didn't mention, and I don't think I realized at the time, but like, they had these like famously lavish family portraits painted.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Of all the kids and the family, and I don't know if you've seen them, but there's something like unsettling about, of course, seeing them now after the murders because it's like...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: They're like larger than life. These like massive oil paintings.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and so they, they're kind of, they were known for these like massive, uh, family portraits. And so the DeFeos lived in the house for nearly a decade, and they had five children, Ronald, who was nicknamed Butch, Dawn, D-A-W-N, Allison, Marc, and John Matthew. So Ronald the oldest AKA Butch, who was named after his father was born in Brooklyn in 1951, and many accounts say he was a survivor of relentless parental abuse from his father. And this was so widely known that, uh, other adult family members witnessed Ronald Jr's father, uh, throw him against walls, uh...
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: Hit him until he was covered in bruises. Umm, and these are other adults in the family who had, who had witnessed this abuse happen.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Ronald was also bullied pretty badly in school, so he really didn't have like a safe haven anywhere. He didn't have a place where he could let his guard down. Umm, he was even known to pay some older guys in his school to like protect him, to like keep an eye out...
Em Schulz: Oh, wow.
Christine Schiefer: To keep him from getting...
Em Schulz: He was paying for security because he was so...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Stressed out, geez. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Which I'm sure it didn't help the bullying, right? Like, I'm sure that...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Was only more fodder.
Em Schulz: They were like go tell your, go tell your security guard, blah, blah, blah.
Christine Schiefer: Go tell your... Right. [laughter] Exactly. And like, oh, you're paying, you're using money to like protect your, you know, I'm sure that this was not a good system, but it was the only way he could like get through it. And like...
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Saoirse our researcher put a really great note here, that like, this is, it's spoiler alert if you don't know what happens in Amityville [laughter] some really, a really horrible multiple murders about to take place at the hands of Ronald Jr. And, uh, I just feel like the way that it's portrayed... I don't want it to come across as, oh, because he was a victim of abuse that's why he like murdered his whole family. Because typically...
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and like Saoirse made a great point here that like, actually a lot of times the bullies themselves are... Like research actually shows that bullies themselves are the most likely to continue being like perpetrating violence. Umm, and so, you know, obviously many people survive bullying and abuse every day without like murdering their whole family, so.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Even though the media sometimes is like, "Oh, this active shooter situation, this this, uh, perpetrator was a social outcast and like that's why he did it." Like a lot of that is very skewed and not necessarily how the world works. But, of course, we know much more about Ronald Jr's background because that's what the sources focus on and that's kind of what's relevant.
Em Schulz: Well, it's so much easier, well, not easier. But it's so much, umm, more telling now given at the time there, there wasn't a lot of active shooting going on.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Umm, like there is today, with people around his age. You know? Like in...
Christine Schiefer: Good point.
Em Schulz: In today's world, he would be one of many that is just, was quote, "an outcast" and didn't know what to do and decided to turn a gun on people that he was around all the time. And like...
Christine Schiefer: That's a very good point. That's a very good point.
Em Schulz: So it's, it's interesting that back then we probably wouldn't have had the same vocabulary that we would today...
Christine Schiefer: Yes.
Em Schulz: For someone like him, because now it feels like...
Christine Schiefer: The context is so different. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Every week, sometimes multiple times a week, we're over-analyzing someone who he probably would've hung out with of like, uh, an outcast who feels like they don't have anybody who feels alone, who has a lot of pent up anger. Maybe there's issues at home, like all the usual like buzzwords that we hear.
Christine Schiefer: The tropes. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: The tropes. And all of them do something very similar to what he did. And so, I mean, he would be clumped into a whole category these days versus being this one outlier incredible story.
Christine Schiefer: That's a really good point. That's a really good point. And I feel like that needs to be like noted just because like, you know, again just because someone survives [laughter] familial abuse, like does not make them a, you know, a shooter.
Em Schulz: Yes. Sure.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So...
Em Schulz: But it is interesting that at the time it was an outstanding case, whereas today...
Christine Schiefer: Totally.
Em Schulz: Very sadly, it is like, happens every fucking Tuesday.
Christine Schiefer: It's fucked up as it is. Like children getting shot is not [laughter] like the most, uh, outrageous headline you've ever heard.
Em Schulz: If, if that story happened today, it would've not been the the giant case it was.
Christine Schiefer: It probably would not have been as, yeah. And I think...
Em Schulz: It would've still made some news, but it wouldn't have been notorious 50 years later.
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. And I think like, obviously part of the reason it became notorious is the following owners and all this, and like his claims, but you're right, it would've probably been a drop in the bucket nowadays versus back then where it was like so shocking and jarring.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm. And of course, it is still shocking and jarring. It's just now we have much more of these kind of stories, that's tragic as it is.
Em Schulz: There's, there's a lot more cases like this. I mean, now it's happening a lot more in schools than homes, but it's...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: You know, anyway.
Christine Schiefer: It's not, yes.
Em Schulz: We could go on forever and ever about this.
Christine Schiefer: I totally agree with you. And, umm, you know, this is just my little caveat that I wanna throw out there. So Ronald started suffering from violent outbursts and his violent outbursts made his friends and family really like uncomfortable and they did not feel safe around him. He started struggling in school. He started fighting with his father. He was expelled from high school and he began to struggle with a substance use disorder. Uh, they tried to intervene and back then, you know, this is not as standard, but they did try to get him professional mental health intervention. Umm...
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: But that did not do anything. And so, his family was at a total loss and all they could do is try to keep him happy and peaceful. He was given expensive gifts. His parents bought him guns to add to his gun collection, which is something that he was very proud of, yeah.
Em Schulz: Oh, mm. Okay. Maybe...
Christine Schiefer: And...
Em Schulz: Mm, no comment. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Okay. They [laughter] gave him a job at the family car dealership and they paid him, even if he didn't show up, even if he did poor performance, which was the usual. He often skipped work. He would show up late, leave early, and they just paid him to keep him calm and happy.
Em Schulz: Okay.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, employees were extra polite to him because they were like, "We don't want an outburst, we're just gonna kind of skirt around this guy." And Ronald would eventually be accused of stealing from the dealership, $19,000 in cash and checks.
Em Schulz: Oh! Then at the time, it was $19,000.
Christine Schiefer: Yep. Which today is worth approximately $108,000.
Em Schulz: Holy shit. Okay.
Christine Schiefer: And he stole this with an accomplice and he told police that they had been, he was just on his way to deposit at the bank on behalf of his workplace, but they'd been held up on the way to the bank and someone else stole the money from him, was his backstory. And police didn't think this lined up. So they went to the dealership and found out, yeah, this was all bullshit, he had stolen it himself. Umm, and so Ronald Senior, his dad asked police to please take it easy on Ronald. Like the last thing he wanted was to get his son worked up and sent home and, you know, lash out at them.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So he asked police to please take it easy on him. And there are a couple more stories that, for example, he allegedly jokingly threatened a friend at gunpoint on a hunting trip...
Em Schulz: Ha ha ha.
Christine Schiefer: And then just like moved on like, right, like nothing happened, like hilarious joke. Another story goes that during a fight with his father, he actually pulled the trigger of a gun, but it failed to fire, and they just moved on. Umm...
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: So there were a couple of those massive red flags. He was also charged with larceny. Uh, and as part of that, basically the charge was that he had used his family boat as a getaway vehicle, and, uh, he had been an on probation for drug use. And so, you know, as you can imagine, he began hanging out with sort of like a, a rough and tumble crowd. They were known to fight, uh, and get into all sorts of antics, but they always ended up back like in the same kind of small group. And he would oftentimes bring his friends over late at night while his whole family was upstairs asleep.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: And the friend group would just hang out and drink. Umm, they had this like beautiful home, which now is just known as a creepy, beautiful home. But at the time, obviously, was just like this gorgeous home, uh, on the water. And one friend, for example, told the New York Times, "it was a beautiful home, very expensive. They had a big bar with champagne and everything. We would drink and play music, but I never met his family." Umm, sometimes apparently his mom would yell from upstairs, like, "please turn the music down," but that's the only way his friends even knew that his family was there. Like, he would just say, come hang out at my house, and like, everyone would just kind of assume like, no one's home. [laughter] And then the mom would be like, "Can you turn down the music?" And they were all asleep upstairs, but they were too scared. They were like walking on eggshells around him, essentially.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm...
Em Schulz: I'm really glad you covered it this way because the, obviously since Episode 4, the the creepy part of it, or the ghost part of it, is really like the the part that people hear and like, everyone's so focused on the hauntings and no one actually knows like like part of the story story spoiler alert, is that he thinks he, like, he claimed he was possessed.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: But with all this backstory, it's... I can see why that, that might not have been the case. Like...
Christine Schiefer: Right.
Em Schulz: Maybe he was just, you know, in the wrong crowd going through it, had a clearly some psychological stuff going on.
Christine Schiefer: Had access to weapons like the whole nine yards.
Em Schulz: Access to a lot of guns that they were giving him more guns while he, when he had violent outbursts to appease him, which not blaming the victim just backstory.
Christine Schiefer: Substance abuse. Yeah.
Em Schulz: Umm, but so it's, I've none and all you ever hear is like, oh, this this guy killed people. And...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And that's exactly...
Em Schulz: Interesting.
Christine Schiefer: Kind of how I felt about it. And when we were, Saoirse like, suggested it, I was like, well, you know, Em, already covered this. And then I went back and listened and I was like, oh, but like we, you covered like the...
Em Schulz: Ghost.
Christine Schiefer: The story. Like the lore. Like the one that's like in the media.
Em Schulz: The famous part. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. The famous part. And I like had no kind of concept about, like I really didn't realize how much...
Em Schulz: Well, 'cause the story always makes you think like, oh, outta nowhere. He just went fucking crazy...
Christine Schiefer: Yes. How could someone do that, right?
Em Schulz: And then he said, like, it was, the story sounds like overnight he really was possessed by something and and, but I would've never known...
Christine Schiefer: Mm-mm.
Em Schulz: This whole time I had no idea that there was like years of important information that led up to that.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. And I feel like the story of him, the story of the murder of his family, all of that gets kind of sometimes brushed aside...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: To like tell the more like, uh, Hollywood.
Em Schulz: Sensationalized. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Sensational, exactly, version. So, you know, it's, it's, worth telling the backstory, I guess.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so yeah, he would have these people over and, you know, it was like this gorgeous three-story home with a pool, like just the perfect place for teenagers to hang out, except that his siblings and parents were asleep upstairs, but they just let him do it. They didn't wanna like mess with anything, set him off. Umm, one night, for example, a friend remembered Ronald breaking a pool stick in half in a moment of anger. Uh, he just would have these like outbursts and sometimes they became physical. So despite confirmed and alleged stories about Ronald, the DeFeos were generally, well-liked by their neighbors. Like they were pretty, umm, pretty pillar of the community type family. Uh, they were also very good to their neighbors.
Christine Schiefer: They went out of their way to befriend and support them. Uh, there was one neighbor named Catherine O'Reilly who lost her husband. And, uh, they were like extremely supportive and kind and like helped her through that, her grieving. During that time, uh, Ronald Senior, would drive a 16-year-old to work at her family's restaurant in Brooklyn every single day because she didn't have a ride. Like, they were just very good to the people around them. Umm, another example is that, uh, the family would give out homemade pastries to friends and neighbors and, uh, the assistant pastor at their church called them, [laughter] which I feel like is an under, like, it's supposed to be a compliment, but not really, an average good family. I'm like, okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah, that's a weird backhanded situation, back I mean...
Christine Schiefer: Average [laughter] is not necessarily the nicest thing.
Em Schulz: And also that was someone from their church. I feel like that's church lingo very quick of like...
Christine Schiefer: Right. That's... You feel like it's like nuanced, like what does it mean? Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like, oh, you're, you're average. Like you're...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, you're just average. It's like...
Em Schulz: Right down the line. Not bad. Not good.
Christine Schiefer: Is it do you even remember who I am? Like it sounds like you're just bullshitting.
Em Schulz: If I invite you to to a party, it'd be like, you know, we, we don't feel a certain way if when you come.
Christine Schiefer: If I'm in the area. Yeah. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: If you're gonna have some of those great pastries laying out, maybe I'll stop by.
Em Schulz: Yeah. Some days you're better than others. No, I, I get what he meant though of like, oh, they were just like normal...
Christine Schiefer: Like they were standard.
Em Schulz: You wouldn't see any, like, anything like this coming kind of family.
Christine Schiefer: No. No. No. You wouldn't like, look twice. So that part of the story actually is kind of true. Like, it was very shocking when this happened because they just seemed like such a typical American family.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, the family was pretty religious and they prayed together on Sunday nights. Umm, they actually installed a statue of Joseph holding baby Jesus on the front lawn. Uh...
Em Schulz: Oh my God.
Christine Schiefer: Complete with lights and a fountain.
Em Schulz: Okay. Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so that's nice.
Em Schulz: That's great.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, a sign, a sign in front of the house read, High Hopes. And, uh, it was almost like they had named the house that...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: So a lot of locals would refer to the house as high hopes, which is so crazy to think like it had this identity as high hopes and no one knew like, oh, one day this will have like a real big identity. Like a...
Em Schulz: Like, and now it's like international. [laughter] Any hope would do.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. No. Right. It's like yikes that turned really quickly on its head. Umm, but it, it did really seem like one of those, everything looked fine from the outside. Like everything looks perfectly normal from the outside. Umm, and I'm sure a lot of this came from the parents, like just putting on, you know, putting out there what they wanted other people to see. So in 1974, we've got a household with Louise and Ronald Senior, Ronald Junior is the oldest. He's 23. 18-year-old, Dawn, 13-year-old Allison, 12-year-old Marc, and 9-year-old John Matthew. So the date is November 13th, 1974, and around 6:30 PM, Ronald Junior burst into an Amityville bar and started screaming, "You've gotta help me. I think my mother and father are shot."
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: So several people accompanied him from the bar back to 112 Ocean Avenue. They ran all the way there. The door was unlocked and one of the family dogs was barking at them as they went inside and up the stairs to Ronald's parents' room, and lo and behold, there were Louise and Ronald Senior both dead in bed, uh, someone had shot them while they slept. They then of course went to the other bedrooms to check on the children. And tragically, all four of Ronald's younger siblings had also been shot to death in their beds. All six of them, all six of the victims were lying face down in bed. Louise and Ronald Senior had both been shot twice and the children were each shot once.
Christine Schiefer: Someone called police while Ronald broke down outside. And when police arrived, Ronald told him he believed it was a Mafia hit by a hitman named Louis Fellini. And his story was that he was at work, and it must have happened during the day when he was at work. And, uh, so he had no way of knowing until he got home. And when Ronald Senior had failed to show up for work, Ronald told everyone, he had no idea where his dad was. He, he tried to call him and didn't get an answer. And Ronald had often alluded to his dad having Mafia connections. Umm, you know, this was an Italian family, but friends thought like, his friends thought, oh, this is just a ploy to get like the bullies off his back. Right? Like, he's trying to make himself kind of, like they thought it was bullshit. Like, oh, my dad has Mafia connections.
Em Schulz: Sure.
Christine Schiefer: And one of his friends...
Em Schulz: It's like, oh my dad lived next to the Amityville House.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. [laughter] Exactly.
Em Schulz: Bullshit.
Christine Schiefer: You get it.
Em Schulz: I get it.
Christine Schiefer: We've all been there.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, but one of his friends made a really good point, which kind of cracked me up and I was like, oh yeah, a good point. He said, when you belong to the Mafia, you don't talk about it. And I was like, oh, yeah.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: So I, I imagine like all his blabbering on about the Mafia and how his dad has Mafia connections, like probably was, most people brushed that aside. But police were like, "Okay, well, it's worth checking." So they put Ronald in protective custody and they investigated the crime scene. And of course, immediately things did not add up. Uh, for one, all of the family members were in pajamas and in their beds. So like he said, "This must have happened during the day while I was at work." But that doesn't add up if they're all in bed in their pajamas.
Em Schulz: Right. In their PJs. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. So investigators realized that this must have happened like well before Ronald went to work, uh, putting him at the scene of the crime 'cause he had slept there the night before.
Em Schulz: Which is wild that he would've done this and then slept next to all of them.
Christine Schiefer: And then just gone straight to work.
Em Schulz: Like to brush your teeth, knowing that in the other room...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Is, I mean.
Christine Schiefer: And then to spend all day out and about and then run into a bar screaming in hysterics, like it's all in act.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: It's very chilling. It's really chilling. So investigators realized like, yes, this must have happened in the early morning before he left for work. Uh, not during the day as Ronald had claimed. They also found ammo matching the murder weapon in Ronald's bedroom. And when they interviewed people who knew Ronald Junior they were putting together a pretty troubling profile. And they pretty quickly knew he was probably involved. Uh, he started to change his story. He said Louis Fellini, this mobster, had woken him up with a gun to his head and made Ronald follow him around the house and watch him kill his family one at a time.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, but then like, why would the hitman spare Ronald?
Em Schulz: Right. Exactly.
Christine Schiefer: Like that didn't make any sense.
Em Schulz: And also why would he, it already ruins his credibility from when he ran in and he goes, I think my parents got shot.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: It's like...
Christine Schiefer: Great point.
Em Schulz: It's like I thought you watched it happen.
Christine Schiefer: It's like wait, I did technically do it, but it was because someone forced me to do it.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, it just didn't make sense. And so, they were like asking him like, go on, explain more. And he said, "Oh, well, then Louis Fellini threw the gun into a sewer." And investigators were like, "Hmm, this is not adding up." But they kept pressing him. And finally he did confess to all six murders, uh, which took place in the middle of the night/early morning hours before he went to ask for help. He said, it all started so fast quote, "Once I started, I just couldn't stop. It went so fast." It's chilling.
Em Schulz: Mm. I mean, also like, it would have to go fast if you just shot somebody and people are gonna start running and hiding. So like, if you want to get...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Which like, I know that's a fucked up way to think, but like, it has to happen fast. Once you pull the trigger once, and everyone's heard of...
Christine Schiefer: Once you commit...
Em Schulz: Gunshot in the house...
Christine Schiefer: Exactly. Exactly.
Em Schulz: If you're, if, if you are a killer of one person, there's witnesses now, so.
Christine Schiefer: There's a choice. Now, you either stop and...
Em Schulz: Or keep going. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: And you're done and they know it was you or you keep going and try to work your way out of it. So tragically, he tried and it didn't work. Umm, he was arrested for the murder of both of his parents and his four younger siblings. Umm, and of course, even if they had known he was troubled or what have you, this was like a total shock to have not only the parents, but four small kids killed in their beds by their sibling. Their oldest brother. Um, Ronald's friends refused to believe it and were like trying to find a way to explain this to themselves and wondering if he had been set up. One friend said, "I can see somebody having a quarrel with his father or mother, but those four children, I was talking to Ronnie just recently about how proud he was of his brother playing football. He'd, he'd never kill his brother." So they were just really shaken by this.
Em Schulz: Do you think they were just like collateral damage of like, well, now that I've killed my parents, who, who's gonna watch them? I don't want to have to deal with it, like something...
Christine Schiefer: I mean, it very well could be. It sounds very family annihilator, you know, which...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Is typically the father in a family, but...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It could be him too. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I, I, I don't know. It's almost like you'd think it'd be easier to explain away as fucked up as it is to even say this out loud, but like, you'd think it'd be easier to explain away, like killing your parents and you can say, or one of your parents saying, oh, we were in this heated argument, but they're like, there's no way to say my 9-year-old sibling...
Em Schulz: Right. My sister who looks up to me. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, yeah. That part is just so far fetched that like people could not wrap their heads around it. Umm, but Ronald did kill all six of them. And so in the following weeks he would change his story over and over. Umm, people questioned how the family had slept through the gunshots because like you mentioned, one gunshot goes off, and you imagine everyone hears it, but they were all still in their beds. Umm, the weapon that he used couldn't be equipped with a silencer, so there was no chance he had put a silencer on the weapon. Neighbors had reportedly heard the family's dog barking that night, but that was really normal. Their dog barked all the time, and so nobody like thought twice about it and nobody else seemed to have heard the gunshots. Ronald for, you know, his side of the story, he claimed he drugged his family with barbiturates at dinner so that they'd sleep through the massacre. Umm, and like maybe he was trying to look more compassionate, like, oh, well they were all asleep when I did it, like.
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: They were unconscious.
Em Schulz: Like, at least I did it painlessly or something.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, painlessly. Like they didn't know what was happening. But of course, I have to report that that is also untrue, umm, because evidence suggested that Louise and Allison were both awake. Uh, and...
Em Schulz: I mean, this is also, this is so terrifying, but this is also a reality that a lot of kids have to deal with now. It's like, do you think they were just hiding in their beds and just hoping that...
Christine Schiefer: Like under the covers, I mean it's...
Em Schulz: Whoever was doing it wouldn't come to their, come into their room?
Christine Schiefer: It's like that classic move of just like pulling the covers over your head and being like, what else can I do? You know?
Em Schulz: I mean, if you're a 9-year-old girl, like what do you, what else are you gonna do? You know? Like just to hope, to hope that it doesn't happen.
Christine Schiefer: And why would you think... And apparently, oh God, this is in one of the documentaries I watched. He walked in and Louise, I don't, I think it was Louise said, "What's happening? What happened?" And he just shot her.
Em Schulz: So she thought that he had like protected the family for a second.
Christine Schiefer: Like she thought, he was the safe one, right? He walks in, she's probably like, "Oh, thank God. Like my brother's here, you know, whatever this noise commotion is like, he'll protect me." And then, so fucked up. So on October 14th, 1975, Ronald went to trial facing charges for all six murders. And Ronald's defense tried to paint Ronald to be this kind of sympathetic figure. Umm, they said they would plead insanity. They claimed that Ronald would hear voices, that he believed to be demons who told him to kill his family. But there is a little bit of controversy because apparently Ronald like publicly opposed the insanity plea...
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: And was like, "No, I don't wanna be labeled. Like that's not part of my defense." Umm, but those who knew Ronald, testified that like probably no mental illness had a part in his crime. They said, umm, maybe it was his issues with his family, rising tensions, drugs, his anger problem. But they were like, we don't. Like the people who knew Ronald best were like, we don't think this was mental illness at play. It might've been a number of other things.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: But like, we don't think he's, it, we don't think pleading insanity is, is gonna work. So in the end, uh, with all that said, he was found guilty on six counts of second degree murder and sentenced to six concurrent terms of 25 years to life in prison.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That's a long, long time. And over the years, he changed his story several times. Umm, and he appealed for a retrial. He tried to convince the courts that this is wild, that his sister, Dawn had actually killed the entire family. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Oh my god. Throwing one of the victims under the bus is crazy.
Christine Schiefer: Can you imagine? Like...
Em Schulz: That's fucking crazy.
Christine Schiefer: After all that? He, gross.
Em Schulz: Like, so how did, so how how'd you get away, big man? And like, why so why is she dead?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Here you go. This is what he said. "His sister, Dawn had killed their entire family and that he only killed her to protect himself at the end." Like, he walked in on this and shot her, which like I...
Em Schulz: Imagine if your parents were alive to hear you calling their dead daughter a monster.
Christine Schiefer: Uh.
Em Schulz: Are you kidding me?
Christine Schiefer: Oh, it's horrific. And then what? You like care, you like shot her, put her in her bed and then pretend it like, it doesn't make any sense that you would change your story all of a sudden to that. Like literally...
Em Schulz: I mean.
Christine Schiefer: The only story that makes sense is that a fucking demon came in. Like that's the only believable story, and that's why I feel like...
Em Schulz: Which is why that's the one that landed, I guess.
Christine Schiefer: Why it turned into the story, right? Like it's the only way that I feel like you could maybe get a few people on your side. [laughter] 'Cause...
Em Schulz: Well, I also now, 'cause that also makes me wonder with, 'cause I mean his, his most popular excuse or his most popular reason for having done this is that he was possessed by a demon. And now, it makes me wonder too, I mean, if his family was incredibly religious, maybe he thought that would be a good scapegoat of like...
Christine Schiefer: That's a good point. And I feel like Italian, Catholic, like I could definitely see that mindset, especially if they prayed every Sunday, were heavily religious and maybe...
Em Schulz: They have a fucking lit up fountain in their yard.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Like, I mean, I feel like it would be easy to, to, umm, relinquish guilt in some way by blaming the devil, or like, oh, temptation made me do it.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Or some, some symbol...
Christine Schiefer: It almost makes some sense that, like, that would maybe be the first thing his head goes to. Like, oh shit. Like...
Em Schulz: Something that Christians or his...
Christine Schiefer: The devil, the devil told me.
Em Schulz: Or his, his family would...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: Something his family would pity him for, you know?
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah. That like, they maybe would accept as a reason.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. That, that's a really good point. I hadn't thought of the like Catholic or the Christianity connection. Umm, so yeah, he's changing his story left and right. Umm, the weirdest part to all of this, which I maintain, which like, what's the word I, umm, I confess, I don't have an explanation for this. And it does... I find it to be the weirdest part is that he has never given a motive.
Em Schulz: Mm.
Christine Schiefer: Like he has never said why he not only killed his parents and maybe, you know, if he had been suffering abuse at the hands of his dad, you could like, I guess get a motive, you know, you could definitely get a motive out of that. Umm, you know, when it comes to life insurance, he did once ask about collecting his father's life insurance policy, but, uh, it wouldn't explain all the siblings being killed. Like maybe...
Em Schulz: I mean, I know they're trope, so I don't wanna blame one of these things, but I could see in today's world, it'd be very easy to find buzzwords and very easy to find tropes for him if he was an outcast or he was doing drugs or he was hanging out with the wrong crowd.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: Or he disrespected his family, or they, you know, he was just, he's had enough pent up rage and was over dealing with his dad, but then he realized he had to get rid of everybody else after he got rid of his dad. Like, I mean, I, I don't think, and I don't know if any of those would have been contributing factors, but I know they would've been considered today.
Christine Schiefer: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
Em Schulz: I feel like he, umm...
Christine Schiefer: It just seems so like, hard to, like, I mean, I'm not here to diagnose anyone. I do, I would wonder if he ha... I haven't really looked into it. I will, but if he's been diagnosed with like, any sort of mental health issues or just even psychopathy, because...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like the leap from saying one week to your friend, I'm so proud of my brother and his baseball career, he's gonna do great.
Em Schulz: Yeah, that's true.
Christine Schiefer: And I, I'm so proud of him. And then a week later, shooting him in the head and shooting your sister while she's like cowering in fear.
Em Schulz: Could he...
Christine Schiefer: Like, it's just such a stretch. But I guess for somebody, and I'm not saying he is psychopathic, I have no idea. Umm, but for somebody like that, it could make more sense why he'd be like, well, it was just a collateral damage, you know?
Em Schulz: The only thing I can think... The only thing I can think of is like his, I mean, the only thing I would first choose out of like, the list of like, you know, the reasons he could have done it is just that if he really had these incredibly violent outbursts, maybe like, could he have been like drunk or, or high on something and like that plus the outburst caused some... I mean, he had access to the guns where next to his bed.
Christine Schiefer: But it is almost like they were all asleep. So like where was the outburst from? You know what I mean? Like, it wasn't like, it wasn't like in the heat of a passionate argument or fight with his parent.
Em Schulz: Yeah. That's true.
Christine Schiefer: You know? Like, they were all asleep, which is weird, but you're right. Like if drugs were involved, it could have been heightened, heightened sensitivity...
Em Schulz: An outburst on top of a normal outburst or I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. I think...
Em Schulz: But I do know if he had his own collection of guns that he had access to. I mean, he could have just like, come up with a scenario in his head, or if he was, if he was on something, I don't know if he was, and it could not be this at all, but I mean, I would, I would wonder, like did he, was he tripping on something? And he thought they were in a fight earlier and then he freaked out and he just like, had a gun next to him and he went, oh, well, that'll do. I don't...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, like I guess.
Em Schulz: I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: We don't know what happened the night before. Maybe there was a big falling out and he was just like mulling it over and over.
Em Schulz: Right Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: You know, maybe he built up...
Em Schulz: Or maybe he heard something about his parents and then he came home and was, I mean, it could be anything.
Christine Schiefer: I guess. Yeah. And so it's frustrating 'cause it's like he's given all these like reasons, like, the devil made me do it. And like, umm, uh, a mobster named a pasta for whatever, [laughter] Rotini made me do it. And it's like, okay, but why? Like, why did you do it?
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: Like, I feel like there's no, like real concrete...
Em Schulz: Or was it like, was he trying to get, if he's talking about how he had mafia connections, like, which I don't totally believe, but if that was the case, was this like an initiation or something? Like what...
Christine Schiefer: Mm. And then they were like, nevermind, we don't want you. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Right. Like you're, it's actually you're causing a bit of a, uh, problem for us press wise.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, this is becoming a Hollywood blockbuster that we didn't sign up for. And, umm...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: No thanks.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I don't know...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
Em Schulz: I feel like...
Christine Schiefer: It's just, it's just bizarre.
Em Schulz: It could be so many things or nothing at all. It's just...
Christine Schiefer: And again, like if he, if he is, if he is psychopathic and does not feel emotion or, or like empathy towards people, then you could probably explain like, oh, it was an inconvenience. He didn't wanna take care of his siblings. He figured, why not get rid of all of 'em? You know what I mean?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like, that kind of thinking does happen if you don't have empathy. And I'm not, you know, I don't know if he's been diagnosed as that, but...
Em Schulz: Or... And I, yeah, I don't, we don't know anything about his diagnosis, but just in the world of theories, like maybe if he did have something going on, maybe he also, maybe he really did think the devil made him do it for all, you know. Like may be he had a...
Christine Schiefer: That's a good point. Maybe he was tripping, like you said, and then he really believed it.
Em Schulz: Or maybe he had like a psychotic break and he really saw a demon or something, and the demon was telling him to do things. Like, I mean, we don't, we have no idea.
Christine Schiefer: There's so many empty, like just blank spaces that we're never gonna really know. And, umm, it's very frustrating to me. Umm...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: But, you know, there's nothing I can do about it. Uh, [chuckle] umm, so a year after the murders, another family moved into the house named the, do you remember?
Em Schulz: Oh, umm... Lutz. The Lutz family.
Christine Schiefer: Yes. I, I only asked, 'cause when I listened to it, I was like, oh yeah, what was their name? And you said, the Lutz family. And I went, yeah, that's really, I don't know why I remember that, but it's a very memorable name. [chuckle] The Lutz family.
Em Schulz: I'm about 300 episodes later, I'm still able to pull that off, so. [chuckle]
Christine Schiefer: That's actually kind of incredible, Em.
Em Schulz: There you go.
Christine Schiefer: That's what I thought. I was like, for some reason, I think Em will remember this. Umm, so the Lutz Family moves into the House and they were there for only 28, 29 days, uh, less than a month. Which in episode 4, you said? Unless it's February. And I said, well, it was December, but yep. [laughter] Unless it's February, less than a month.
Em Schulz: I tried, hey you know?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: No, it was, it was very funny.
Em Schulz: I was still practicing my banter.
Christine Schiefer: It was good. It was good. I shut you down. Umm, so they moved in and fleed within a month, and they claimed that the house was violently haunted. And as we know, their story was adapted into books and movies and became so notorious that it was, you know, it kind of overshadowed the actual real horror that happened there, like the actual...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Multi murder of children, you know?
Em Schulz: Right.
Christine Schiefer: And so, uh, Ronald was resentful of all these stories coming out, this Hollywood thing. And he said quote, "I guess the Amityville Horror really is supposed to be me because I'm the one that got convicted of killing my family. I'm the one who... I'm the one they say who did it. I'm the one that's supposed to be possessed by the devil." And so he kind of has grown to resent this storyline, even though I feel like it has just added sympathy toward him about being possessed by the devil, but whatever. Uh, anyway, although many people consider to have debunked the Amityville haunting, umm, of course it continues to compel people to this day. And it's almost like the real life horrors of it have become like an afterthought to the story?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, oh yeah, a bunch of people were murdered here and now it's full of demons. And it's like, wait, wait, go back to the multiple. Like...
Em Schulz: I wonder if it's because like girl math. I feel like it's because the story that everyone hears is that a devil, the devil or a demon made him do it or he was possessed. So there were in, it sounds like there was already ghosts, and then after him, there were ghosts. So there's two ghost situations and only one murder. So it just becomes, it just seems more haunted than than crime.
Christine Schiefer: Yes, the umbrella story is like the demon. The vi... Yes, exactly.
Em Schulz: Like it's book ended. The crime is book ended with ghosts.
Christine Schiefer: And I, yeah. And I also think it's easier for people to swallow the story of someone just murdering their four baby siblings in cold blood and their parents. Probably easier for most people to swallow by convincing, you know, being convinced that...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It was a demonic force. It was Satanists. It was the devil, you know?
Em Schulz: Something out of his control, and there's no way human beings could do that. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: No human could do that to their younger siblings, exactly. I feel like that must be part of it as well. And that's probably why this was so compelling is like, holy shit, how could anyone do that? It must be...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Demonic forces. Umm, so you know, this of course has become such a notorious story that it made the cut for Episode 4 top first five, I was gonna say top five episodes, first five episodes, certainly not the top five episodes of our podcast and Em covered it. And so you should, well, I was gonna say you should go listen, but maybe don't, guys, maybe don't. Em, did a great job. I just am embarrassed by my...
Em Schulz: I don't think I did that gr... If I did it today, I think I'd have a lot more or less information. But also did we cover it? I didn't cover it in our book.
Christine Schiefer: So, oh...
Em Schulz: No, I don't think I did.
Christine Schiefer: I think you might have. [chuckle] I think for New York, maybe?
Em Schulz: Maybe for New York.
Christine Schiefer: I literally have it right here for some reason. Let me see. Umm, do we have a... Oh, New York. Here we go. New York is page 11. Oh, no, no, no. Sorry. You did the Ghost of Broadway.
Em Schulz: Oh. Thanks.
Christine Schiefer: Why did I think you did it? I don't know.
Em Schulz: I feel like I did, I feel like maybe I mentioned it somewhere in the book.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, probably. You probably said my dad lives next to the...
Em Schulz: I think there's a QR code or something to the episode.
Christine Schiefer: Next to the umm... [laughter] You are funny. I'm reading this nice little.
Em Schulz: Why?
Christine Schiefer: Uh, I don't know. Let's see. Christine covered Nexium at the live show. I covered Dear David. Oh, and that light bulb exploded above your head...
Em Schulz: Oh, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: At the Gramercy. Umm, my favorite, you wrote, "My favorite parts of the night were when Lisa Lampanelli came to support us and when my girlfriend sent us good luck cookies." Umm, and I talk about Chremmit. So that sounds right. Umm...
[laughter]
Em Schulz: That's what you have to look forward to if you buy our book. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Excellent. Yeah. Wow. Go buy our book, I guess. Umm, I don't even see Amityville in like the places to check out.
Em Schulz: I don't know. Well, I think because it was umm Long Island and not the city.
Christine Schiefer: Well, it is a part of the property. Oh, that's true. That's true. That's true. Well, uh anyway, so it is not famous enough to reach our book, but it is famous enough to be in Episode 4 of this podcast. But [chuckle] Em did a very good job of the ghost part, which I'm not really covering today 'cause I wanted to focus on the murders. But if you wanna go hear the ghost, Em, does a great job of that. And there's a photo that you showed me back then that is still seared into my memory of the little kid.
Em Schulz: Yeah, I know. Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: And we put that on our Instagram. I mean Again, this was 2017, so like it's a long scroll probably to get back there. But...
Em Schulz: It's a long scroll.
Christine Schiefer: If you wanna go check... May be...
Em Schulz: I mean it's a long scroll on Spotify, too, if you're gonna go listen to the episode.
Christine Schiefer: That's true. Well, no, you can do the nice filter where it says sort by oldest episode one.
Em Schulz: Oh oh oh right.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, but yeah, if you want to check that, maybe we'll repost it just for funsies.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Like just on Instagram.
Em Schulz: Wow.
Christine Schiefer: Okay, wait, we're gonna post it on Instagram. And if you were there for the original posting, can you comment? There's probably not many people. But can you comment like...
Em Schulz: It will be our mothers.
Christine Schiefer: Like this is the second... Your cousin and our moms. Like this is the second time I've seen this post, I don't know. Maybe that's right. Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah, it'll be Allison and our moms and that's it.
Christine Schiefer: Well, that'll be nice anyway. Okay.
Em Schulz: Yeah, yeah.
Christine Schiefer: I'd like the support of those three. Umm, anyway, so the owners of the house have since changed, well, it's gone through many hands since then. But...
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Uh, the address has changed, umm, of course, this has been leaked a bajillion times. It's like probably the most doxxed house on the Internet.
Em Schulz: Mm-hmm.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and of course, they can't move the house... You know. It's gonna be there whether it's 112 Ocean Avenue or not.
Em Schulz: I think it's probably one of those places that if you move in, you're...
Christine Schiefer: You know what...
Em Schulz: You'll have to be prepared for...
Christine Schiefer: You really, you really have to be prepared. Yeah, exactly. And I can't imagine you would buy it without knowing what the fuck is going on. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Yeah. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm...
Em Schulz: Although I, I also wonder, like... I feel like a lot of houses now that have haunted histories, I feel like the new families that move in, they say like, oh, it, we've, it's, we've literally never had activity, I don't know what you're talking about. I feel like they almost get trapped where they have to say that and now they can't ask for help because if they say it actually is haunted, then they're just gonna get phone calls out the wazoo about having the...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. But then they gotta make a TikTok or like a...
Em Schulz: Yep.
Christine Schiefer: You know, Instagram page and then they can get famous. [laughter] Just what every family wants. It's just...
Em Schulz: If you wanna be viral, just move in. It's fine. It'll figure itself out.
Christine Schiefer: Just go viral. [laughter] Listen, it's not the first time Em and I have heard of a haunted property and been like, should we buy that? Umm, we never have to.
Em Schulz: We, when the Conjuring house went up, we...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, that's right.
Em Schulz: We really, we didn't like have like...
Christine Schiefer: We thought about it.
Em Schulz: A full sit down, but we did have like a minute where we were like, that could be our studio, that could be our recording studio.
Christine Schiefer: We were like, hey, I have one more glass of wine and like, let's fucking buy it. And you were like, okay, don't drink another...
Em Schulz: Christine really was about two sips away from just pressing buy now versus as if it was an Amazon purchase.
Christine Schiefer: I was making a bad decision... Add to cart. Yeah. Buy now. [laughter] one-click purchase. I, umm, and the funny thing was, it was up for like over a million dollars that I'm over here like, let's buy it. And then...
Em Schulz: It's like, we can do it. We can do it. We could, obviously we did it last time with our, with our $200 microphones. We, we found it, we found the coins in our couch. We can do it again. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: And of course like looking back, well, first of all, no, we cannot afford that. Everyone don't worry. But second of all, uh, looking back now and listening to that episode where I'm like, man, houses, like a starter home is like $300,000 and then like fast forward like...
Em Schulz: Now that house is probably cheaper.
Christine Schiefer: We could buy a $2 million Conjuring House for fun 'cause I'm drinking. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. The tables have turned mentally for me, but not in reality.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Anyway.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: They're constantly getting worse. Sometimes I go on Zillow and I'm like, it's only $9 million like we'll figure it out.
Christine Schiefer: I know. Isn't it crazy your brain gets so fucked up where you're like relatively like, things don't, I don't know, numbers don't mean anything.
Em Schulz: There are times where I've shown Allison like a $12 million house, and I'm like, what do you think?
Christine Schiefer: Especially LA.
Em Schulz: And she's like, what do I think?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: What do I think?
Em Schulz: I think close the fucking tab. That's what I think.
Christine Schiefer: I think like delete all the zeros afterward. Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Umm, so if only we knew like how bad, but look, now I own my own home. Umm, at least not in LA, it's in Kentucky, but you know, uh, we... I feel like...
Em Schulz: You've made the changes you had to make to make it work, so. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. We've come pretty far. I feel very, umm, happy that, you know, it's just also very, uh, nostalgic to listen to Episode 4. And it was one of those days where I just thought I needed this little, like, pick me up of listening to young Em and Christine and their bullshit, you know?
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Umm, and probably saying like non-PC things and all, all sorts of, uh...
Em Schulz: Got it.
Christine Schiefer: Cringe-worthy moments. Umm, but oh, I do wanna say one update too, which obviously had not happened when we recorded the original, but, uh, Ronald DeFeo junior has since died in prison in 2021. Umm...
Em Schulz: Oh, okay.
Christine Schiefer: And he was only 69 years old. So, isn't it wild like...
Em Schulz: You know, like, that's another thing that like, I really need to re-estimate my, like how time works for me because it feels so long ago. But to know that Ronald DeFeo like experienced COVID with us, like...
Christine Schiefer: I know, I know.
Em Schulz: Like, I feel like he, he was gone...
Christine Schiefer: It puts a different perspective on it. I totally agree.
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's like, oh, maybe he died of COVID. I mean, I don't know what he died of, but like...
Em Schulz: But 2021. You never know. Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: It's just a crazy thought. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Umm, the official oh, not been released to the public. Okay. Thought I would check just in case. But yeah. And I mean, I remember that documentary that you told me about way back when, and I watched that before you, 'cause you had said there's this documentary called like My Amityville Horror, I think? Which was like his side of the story.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah. It was like the kid who, one of the kids who, uh, lived through the house. He has his own demons. [laughter] He seems like a, he seems like he's got some stuff going on, but, uh...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, I don't really know. But the, well, and then there was a whole thing with the Warrens who got involved and then they got all complicated 'cause they're kind of fucked up. So it feels like it was just such a mess of a story.
Em Schulz: But it's still... Even I, I will still recommend, it was like, what was it called? My Amityville Story or something?
Christine Schiefer: My Amityville Horror.
Em Schulz: Umm, yeah, it was, I don't know how much of it I believe, I believe he believes it. Like I... Like...
Christine Schiefer: That's almost what's really interesting about it. And like, I would recommend watching that and then watching, I watched a couple documentaries about, I watched some more one that came out I think after he passed in 2021 on Discovery Plus. So if you just search Amityville there are like several options. But, so seeing My Amityville Horror and then watching the other ones, you're like, oh, he didn't touch on X, Y, and Z...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Or his gun collection or his, this, that and the other.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I actually, I... Thank you for bringing that back to my, out of the folds in my brain. I might actually watch that tonight.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah, it's...
Em Schulz: I remember it being good, even if I, like, I feel like the, the only reason I hold back, 'cause usually I'm so pro ghost, is like, I am also aware that like, when that guy who's in charge of the documentary or he is like narrating what happened to him, I know he was also a little kid, so maybe his story is skewed in some way, I don't know.
Christine Schiefer: It's so hard to, yeah, it's...
Em Schulz: I don't know what's real and what's not. And so like, I try to take it with a grain of salt, but it's still scary. Like even if like the things that he's saying, if they're like, they were bigger in his head, then...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. Yeah, good point.
Em Schulz: Or if they really happen, I mean if they really happened that was fucked, it's fucking scary.
Christine Schiefer: And, and to be honest, like what is a house like with a six-person murder, like just an in innocent children getting murdered. Like if someone is gonna be that...
Em Schulz: Your brain is gonna accomplish it.
Christine Schiefer: I was gonna say no, wait, if that's, if, if someone tells me that place is haunted, I'm like, yeah, most likely. Like I don't doubt that a place is haunted. Maybe not because demons made him kill his family, but maybe like, I don't know. It can't be like a good energy, right? Like...
Em Schulz: Yeah.
Christine Schiefer: Oh, and apparently when the Lutz's bought the house, which we never really touched on before, is they bought it with all the furniture still.
Em Schulz: Oof.
Christine Schiefer: And the mattresses were removed, but the bed frames were all the same. So like...
Em Schulz: So the kids were sleeping in beds, that people had been murdered.
Christine Schiefer: The kids were sleeping in the bed frames on new mattresses, in the same beds as the children.
Em Schulz: That really, I mean we've talked about this before too, but like, how, where is the line between like...
Christine Schiefer: Stone tape theory like is there... Oh, oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Em Schulz: Like, would you wear a shirt that a murderer wore or would you like things like that where it's like, at some point it's okay but...
Christine Schiefer: Where they like...
Em Schulz: At some point, you know what I mean? Like, at some point it's too...
Christine Schiefer: Like, is it okay to move into a house where this happened? Sure. But is it okay to sleep on the beds? No. But why? Like, where's that line?
Em Schulz: Like and there's some and there some really practical people who don't have, who don't feel like energy connections to things. And they can be like, what? It's a bed frame. I'm not gonna get rid of a good bed frame.
Christine Schiefer: It's a perfectly good bed frame. That's every dad ever. Uh, yeah.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: In my head, I'm like, a soul ended there. Or like a soul was...
Christine Schiefer: A baby who was killed slept on this.
Em Schulz: Was taken out of a body there.
Christine Schiefer: And it's like, well, why is that any different than a new bed there? I don't know, but in my head it feels different. You know?
Em Schulz: It feels totally different. It's like, or I honestly, like, I would have to repurpose the entire room of like, I can't sleep in a room where two deaths happened. You know? Like...
Christine Schiefer: It would really be trauma... And, and you'd have to be one of those people who's like, I don't believe in that to like feel totally comfortable. You know? Which like...
Em Schulz: Unless you're full on, thrill seeking enthusiast with this.
Christine Schiefer: Or that. Right. Unless that's actually what you want.
Em Schulz: There's no in between. Either you have to be Zak Bagans or you have to be Blaise. Like you have to...
Christine Schiefer: Yeah.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Those are the two ends of the spectrum. And with that...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Here are my arms again. Okay? Everybody. I don't know what the fuck to tell you...
Em Schulz: What a great, what a great way to end this.
Christine Schiefer: What a segue of...
Em Schulz: Well, and that's why we drink folks. [laughter] We, we drink because of those two stories and Christine shoulders.
Christine Schiefer: By the way, the reason we, or the way we ended up Episode 4 was we went, okay, ready, set, go. And we said, and that's why we drink at the same time. And I was like, that's almost stupider than how we do it now.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Because we have to like, timers like, one, two, three, go. It's like, why do we do that?
Em Schulz: We, but at least back then, we were in the same room. So it would've...
Christine Schiefer: That's true. Okay. That's true. The lag makes it hard. That's true.
Em Schulz: The lag makes it hard. Yeah. We'll never know how to end it, but honestly at this point, if we knew how to, how to, it would probably be a little too clean and polished for people, so.
Christine Schiefer: It would be, people would be like, something's up. So it's not my, uh, podcast catcher or whatever. It's not my podcast player.
Em Schulz: Yeah. I like it. It's a little, it's a... You know, we stumble through it. It's a little, you know, clumsy.
Christine Schiefer: It's like when I'm saying goodbye at a party, and I get, this is why I Irish goodbye, 'cause I get like nervous when I'm talking and I'm saying goodbye. And then I'm suddenly like, "What a beautiful chandelier," and they're like, "I thought you were leaving." [laughter] And I'm like, "I don't know how to say goodbye and leave." Like, I'm just making it weird and I'm drawing out the goodbye. Nobody wants it.
Em Schulz: It's like work you're pulling teeth to, to leave your own situation.
Christine Schiefer: Yeah. They're like, you could go...
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Anyway.
Em Schulz: Next time you're saying goodbye and you comment on something, I'm gonna go, "Goodbye Christine," and just close the door on you. [laughter]
Christine Schiefer: Just leave. We're gonna close the door for you. Okay?
Em Schulz: Yeah. Well, my, so every now and then my mom, I feel so bad about it 'cause it's like so bitchy. But at the same time, there are a lot of times where my mom will call and I just hang up in the middle of her sentence because like, I just...
Christine Schiefer: Oh my God.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: She just keeps going. And I'm like, we've said bye like 20 times. Goodbye. And so like...
Christine Schiefer: As, as I've tried to teach people, and I hope everybody remembers, but if you are on a phone call and you hit, don't hang up. But if you, well, do hang up, but if you hit the airplane mode emoji...
Em Schulz: Yes.
Christine Schiefer: Or not emoji, the airplane mode, it'll say call ended or call failed. It'll say call failed.
Em Schulz: Oh.
Christine Schiefer: And so it'll look like there was an error in the phone lines or whatever. Uh, but really you just said...
Em Schulz: You're really telling yourself, 'cause next time that happens between us, I'm gonna screenshot it and go, what the fuck.
Christine Schiefer: What the fuck did you do?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: I do that sometimes when I'm really stressed out and I'm scared and then I just hit the airplane. It's so...
Em Schulz: Well, you're not alone because my mom also can't say goodbye. She, every single, I think she has some...
Christine Schiefer: I like I go like but I'm gonna hangup 'cause I want her to know that I'm hanging up. And it's not an error with the phone lines.
Em Schulz: If I don't do it, it will never end. [laughter] I'd still be on a phone call from eight years ago. Like, she...
Christine Schiefer: The good thing too is if you hit airplane mode, then they, like, they can't call you back until you turned it off. [laughter] You know what I mean? It's honestly a win-win, win-win, win-win.
Em Schulz: Well, she, umm, she doesn't know how to end a phone call, but she also clearly has this weird guilt if she hangs up that like someone is disappointed that the phone call's over. And so she can't...
Christine Schiefer: Oh lord.
Em Schulz: End until she's already scheduled a new phone call with you. And, but it's never like, oh, get your calendar out, when are you free? She just frantically screams a time at you after she's already said goodbye five times...
Christine Schiefer: Thursday at 6:00.
Em Schulz: She'll go, "Okay, I love you. Goodbye. Oh, wait, one more thing. Blah, blah, blah. Okay, goodbye. Whoa. Oh, one more thing blah, blah. Okay, I'll call you at eight o'clock on Thursday." And I'm like...
Christine Schiefer: And the voice is just getting farther and farther from the phone, but it's like she's still somehow shouting through the, through the phone.
Em Schulz: She's just like, I'm like, girl, I'll get you when I get you. Like, I don't need, I really, I don't care. Like, and she, she keep... Anyway, I just hang up.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: I'm like, I'm like...
Christine Schiefer: So now we're your mom...
Em Schulz: Click.
Christine Schiefer: And we just won't hang up the phone. [laughter] We won't let these poor listeners free. We won't set them free.
Em Schulz: Oh yeah, you're right. We're very Michael Scotting this. Okay, so we'll go. We should say, and that's why we drink at the same time. Right? That's how it went on Episode 4?
Christine Schiefer: That's sure we can try it. Umm, and, uh, Jack, our editor, if it doesn't line up, can you just leave it how it is? 'Cause it'll be funnier.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It will be funnier if it's bad. So one, two...
Christine Schiefer: Let's try.
Em Schulz: Three. And that's why we drink.
Christine Schiefer: And that's why we drink. It sounded good, like the problem is on my end. It sounded perfectly in sync, but I'm sure on your end it didn't.
[laughter]
Em Schulz: It didn't, the, the, my words and your words didn't even touch on my end, so...
Christine Schiefer: Oh, excellent. Well, we'll see, we'll see what happens when it comes out. [laughter]
Em Schulz: Okay. And?
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: That, oh wait, what?
Em Schulz: I don't know. I don't know. And that's why we drink.
[laughter]
Christine Schiefer: The end.