E452 Sleep Paralysis Fashion and Pick Me Ghosts

TOPICS: THE HAT MAN, THE EMILY MORGAN HOTEL

It’s Episode 452 and today it’s oops! all creeps! Em is joined by Morgan Harris of Creeps & Crimes to bring you an all spooky episode as part of the ParaPods presents: Paraween Invasion of the Host Snatchers extravaganza! First Morgan covers the totally terrifying lore of the Hat Man. Then Em brings us to Texas for a haunted hotel that maybe we’ve high fived at in a past life, the Emily Morgan Hotel. And who thinks we need a dog cam in the corner? …and that’s why we drink!

To hear more from Morgan check out her podcast Creeps & Crimes!

Grab your Paraween merch at atwwdmerch.com!

Transcript

[Paraween intro: Spooky music. Video clips of fog, a ouija board, and jack-o-lanterns are flipped through like channels on a vintage TV. Rolling fog reveals “Up Next… ParaPods presents: Paraween Invasion of the Host Snatchers]

Christine: Mwah-ha-ha-ha!

Em: ’Tis the season. It’s [singing] ♪ Ti-ime! ♪♪

Christine: [singing] ♪ Paraween! ♪♪ [speaking] You’ve been waiting. We’ve been waiting. The world’s been waiting; they just didn’t know it. Paraween is here.

[bell clangs, starting a transition from the Paraween intro music to the And That’s Why We Drink intro music]

Em: Welcome, everyone, to, uh, another – hm – installment of “Where is Christine?” It’s a–

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] It’s also, uh, as Eva has lovingly named it, “Paraween.” [spooky tone] Oo-oo-ooh. And happy O–

Morgan: [spooky tone] Oo-ooh.

Em: Happy October, everybody. We are celebrating by, um, head-on collisioning with other podcasts, and everyone has agreed somehow (thank you, everyone) to join forces, and we have all swapped hosts in a case of, uh, the invasion of the host snatchers (also lovingly named by Eva – thank you, Eva). And–

Morgan: I know. Great job, Eva.

Em: Eva loves a name. I swear, she– Para– ParaPod, uh, presents Paraween: Invasion of the Host Snatchers. A–

Morgan: Episode three.

Em: Episode three. [chuckles] And we are very lucky, uh, as Eva lovingly told me because I– she knew I did not know this. Um, there are six episodes across five different podcasts.

Morgan: Yes.

Em: Um, where we have all, uh, joined forces, and we are hosting each other’s shows together. So thank you for taking over for Christine this week. This is Morgan from Creeps and Crimes, in case you do not know.

Morgan: Hello, everybody. I’m back, again. Twice in one month.

Em: I know!

Morgan: Look at me.

Em: We’re getting really good at recording together.

Morgan: Look at me.

Em: We’re getting really good at this. I know. You look– You look stunning too. You’re–

Morgan: Thank you.

Em: The, the, the pink glow behind you.

Morgan: Well, you know, I was actually just looking in the camera. I was like, “My hair looks pink.” ’Cause like if like this– [leans back towards the wall and neon pink light. The bright pink glow reflects off her hair, making it look pink]

Em: [laughs] You do look a, a little like a, like a, like a YouTube star or something. I don’t know. In my mind, this’s what YouTube stars look like.

Morgan: This is– Um, for those that don’t know, this is our old studio that has been refurbished into my house, so that I can do some alone recordings like today. So.

Em: It– Honestly, I love the idea of like bringing it back to the original season of Creeps and Crimes, you know? So.

Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, I know, and she’s so cute.

Em: And for those, for those who don’t know, um, Morgan is the paranormal spooky, uh, co-host to, uh, Taylar’s crime, uh, on Creeps and Crimes. And so since we’re together, there’s no crime hosts to tell us what to do, so we’re just gonna tell you a bunch of spooky stories today. Hee-hee-hee-hee.

Morgan: Absolutely. And Eva also named this, “Oops! All Creeps.” [laughs]

Em: [gasps] I love it. Um, and what’s the other thing Eva wanted me to say? There were so many things.

Morgan: Uh, T-shirts. There’s T-shirts.

Em: We have T-shirts!

Morgan: Whoo-hoo!

Em: Thank you, Morgan. You really are taking over–

Morgan: You’re welcome.

Em: –as a true co-host. Uh, we have Paraween shirts available. Uh, check our socials for that. You can also, on our socials, see, uh– Megan and Eva have put together a very lovely movie poster where you can see all of the crossovers for Invasion of the Host Snatchers, and, uh, you can follow along on everyone’s respective podcasts over there. So–

Morgan: Well, and because we’re movie stars.

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: And honestly we’re the lead if we’re some of the first to, to go, right? I think we’re one of the first episodes.

Morgan: That’s what, that’s what I was thinking too.

Em: Perfect. I–

Morgan: Well, that’s why I thought that we were first, and so I had this little like joke cracked up. But we’re third, so now I don’t know what to say. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Top three. Uh–

Morgan: Top three. Thir– What’s the– First is the worst, second is the best– What’s third? Third is the one with the hairy chest?

Em: One with the hairy chest. Yeah.

Morgan: [laughs] Well, here we are.

Em: So here we are. Um–

Morgan: [laughs] With our hairy chests.

Em: [laughs] Well, since it’s technically And That’s Why We Drink, it begs the question: do you have a reason why you drink this week, Morgan?

Morgan: Um–

Em: And what do you drink? Did you bring a drink?

Morgan: Well, I did, but because it’s, you know, midday Saturday, I– Well, that’s actually a terrible excuse ’cause that sounds like a reason for a cocktail, but–

Em: [laughs] You should get fucked up.

Morgan: –I have a banana berry Smoothie King smoothie. Because it’s midday, and I didn’t eat lunch, so I was like, “This will get me through.” And a water–

Em: Banana berry smoothie.

Morgan: And I’m gonna throw it back to when we were on your podcast with Taylar’s emotional support bottle.

Em: Mm-hmm?

Morgan: I actually went to Target and bought the same one. So. [holds up a pale green flip-top bottle]

Em: Ooh! Look at you.

Morgan: Check that out. I know, but–

Em: What color is that?

Morgan: This is green. Well, it probably looks pink with my neon light, but–

Em: No, it’s– It look– It was just like a p– Is it like a pistachio or a mint?

Morgan: Yeah, it’s like a really light minty pistachio green with a pink orangey lid.

Em: Love her.

Morgan: So, so cute. But, um, why do I drink this week? Because I got conned by my dog with an injury. So last Friday, Aaron was going out of town to go on this golf trip, and all of a sudden, Ollie– who actually is in the room, and he’s being a fantastic boy right now. He’s–

Em: Oohhh.

Morgan: –right below me, sleeping. So I’m sure he’ll make his–

Em: That’s pre-precious.

Morgan: –entrance up here at some point throughout this episode. But all of a sudden– So Aaron’s like practicing his little golf before he goes on this– goes to Pennsylvania for this golf tournament, and Ollie’s laying down. He’s like, he’s like holding his hip up, like– just like raising it up.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Like doing like the workout like the [holds her arm vertical in front of her chest and swings it out to the side and back like a metronome]– the– You know?

Em: [laughs] Like a jazzercise motion, yeah.

Morgan: Literally. And I’m like, “Oh, wow. That’s, that’s really weird.” And then I’m like– I keep watching him, and he’s limping around. And he’s like completely holding it up.

Em: Oh, shit.

Morgan: And I’m like, “What the fuck?” ’Cause I didn’t see him get hurt. And so I like go on the Ring camera just to make sure he didn’t get like the zoomies outside or something, got caught up.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: And I didn’t see anything, so I’m immediately texting Aaron. I’m like, “Oh my god. You gotta get home. Like Ollie needs to go to the ER vet now.” ’Cause–

Em: [chuckles] Yes?

Morgan: [chuckles] –any sort of logical reasoning goes out the door.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: And so Aaron comes home. He’s like, “No, I think he’s okay,” you know. And I’m like, “Well, you’re leaving this weekend. And if we don’t get this taken care of, then I’m gonna have a full panic attack. And at 3 a.m. one night, Saturday night, I’m gonna end up at the ER vet with a billion dollar bill–“

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: “–and they’re gonna tell me that he’s faking it.” So anyway– That was actually on Thursday. So Friday comes, and Aaron has a flight. And I’m like, “Okay, let’s get him into the vet.” I get to the vet, and they’re like, “Oh, we have walk-ins, but we have an open availability at 3:40.” I’m like, “Okay. Well, let’s do the 3:40.” Because I have to take Aaron to the airport. He’s gotta be there by 4:40–

Em: Oof.

Morgan: –which means I gotta be out of the vet within 40 minutes. 4:20 at the latest.

Em: Good luck.

Morgan: Exactly. So I get there. There’s no one there. It’s just this woman and her little puppy. And they start, um– They take that one back, and then we’re still sitting there, and I even got there early. I know that doesn’t matter. And I know they get caught up. And all of these customers come in, and they’re taking their dogs back. And I’m sitting there, and I’m getting real antsy. And he’s like also moaning and whining. So, he’s like holding his leg up and is like [low moaning sound].

Em: Oh my god. I would be a, a mess, by the way.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: I would be losing my mind.

Morgan: Well, I was pan– I was panicked. I was like, “What did he– What if he tore s–“ I’m watching all these videos. Don’t go to ChatGPT because they’re like, “You– He tore his– the dog version of an ACL.”

Em: Oh my god. I–

Morgan: Which is something else. I don’t know what it’s called.

Em: I would have lost my mind. I– I’ve only heard my dog like yelp in pain like twice, and both times I went, “Hospital time! Okay, let’s go, let’s go.” And just–

Morgan: “Load up.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Morgan: And he’s like this, [opens her mouth, dropping her jaw] just dropping water out of his mouth. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] He’s such an asshole. All of a sudden, I was like, “The hospital can wait.” Yeah, um.

Morgan: No. So, I’m, I’m at the vet. And then this woman comes in. They’re like, “Ma’am, your appointment was at 3:15.” And she was like, “I know. Oh, wait. I thought it was at 3:30. I was just running a little late.” They’re like, “Either way, it’s 3:45.” All this to say, we end up leaving because we didn’t get back there, and Aaron had to be at the airport. So I take Aaron to the airport, and then all night, he’s just like limping around and moaning and crying.

Em: Ugh.

Morgan: And I was like, “Oh my god, I’m so stressed.”

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: But I rescheduled him for Monday. Saturday comes: he’s still doing the same thing. Sunday comes: Aaron comes back, and limp’s gone.

Em: Hm.

Morgan: No whining.

Em: Hm.

Morgan: No holding his leg up.

Em: Hm.

Morgan: And so we coordinated it–

Em: He’s a pick-me.

Morgan: We coordinated as he being a pick-me because he saw a suitcase getting packed–

Em: Uh-huh.

Morgan: –Thursday night.

Em: Uh-huh, yeah.

Morgan: And he was like, “Yeah, my hip hurts, so let me j–“

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: “Let me just lift it up.” So, I got conned. But I really– I don’t know. I still kinda think there was something going on because he’s a Golden and like, uh, hip dysplasia’s really common.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: ’Cause they like swing their hips when they’re walking.

Em: Oh, cute.

Morgan: But no, he was fine. I got conned.

Em: I, I mean, I wanna say shame on you, but I would have done the exact same thing.

Morgan: Yeah, I had full, full panic mode. And now he’s fine. He’s just–

Em: Did, did–

Morgan: –honestly laying on all of my cords, so that’ll be fun when he stands up. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Did Aaron come home early, or he came at the– he came home at the time he was expected to?

Morgan: The time he was expected to.

Em: Okay.

Morgan: Sunday.

Em: So at least, at le– Can you imagine if he got home and all of a sudden the dog was fine? He’s like, “I left for this. Are you kidding me? I would’ve–“

Morgan: No, I know.

Em: Oh my god. [laughs]

Morgan: Yeah. Well, he was just golfing Thursday still here in Knoxville, and then he flew to Pennsylvania Friday–

Em: [breathes out sharply]

Morgan: –and then he came back on Sunday. And he was fine when he came back on Sunday.

Em: Mm.

Morgan: So he’s just a little shit, I think, actually.

Em: My, my dog has yet to discover that he can be manipulative, and once he learns that power, it’s– All hell will break loose. Um–

Morgan: Oh, yeah. You’re screwed.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: ’Cause they’re already so dramatic.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: So then when they’re being extra dramatic, it’s like [moaning]. I’m like, “Hello?”

Em: [laughs] No, my dog– Usually, uh, I warn people at the dog park that he’s, um, a kneecap, kneecap-height cannonball, and he really has no interest in stopping when he’s running. He will just crack you in the legs, and you’ll go– You’ll fall down.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, so I know that he’s like pretty– Even in like an idiot way– Like I, I love him very much, but he’s not the smartest dog. Um, he just kinda is a brute force and really can’t be harmed. So when he does act like he’s in pain, I’m like, “What the hell happened?” I’m like, “There’s–“

Morgan: “What’s going on?”

Em: Yeah. And one time he, um– I think he– I mean, he tripped on concrete. Yikes. I would scream too. [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Um–

Morgan: See, he was just reactive of that because he was embarrassed.

Em: Yeah. I think he was honestly like trying to like do that thing where you laugh ’cause you’re so embarrassed. You’re like, “No, I’m having fun.” Like– [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs] He’s like, “Ha-ha-ha ow…”

Em: [laughs] When that happened, I was like, “Oh, okay. It’s time to go to the doctor.” And then five seconds later, he was fine. So, uh, the day he actually does act r-really upset, I, I, I hope he’s not manipulating me. I also hope he’s not hurt, but I don’t– I really don’t– won’t know what to believe. I’ll be like, “Did you figure it out that you could just do this?” You know?

Morgan: Right.

Em: Um–

Morgan: Yeah. And like when did Ollie figure that out? Like that’s what I don’t know. He’s never hurt his paw before, so he’s never limped.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: And then all of a sudden, he’s like [holds arm up limply].

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I mean, I’ll, I’ll send you pictures later. It was absolutely pitiful. Pitiful. [laughs]

Em: That’s– [laughs]

Morgan: But I, I love that– It’s Hank, right?

Em: Hank, yeah.

Morgan: Yeah. I love that he’s a brute force because Ollie does the same thing. Anytime someone like comes and delivers a package, our front door is like majority glass so he can see it.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: But I live in the house that Taylar used to live in.

Em: Precious.

Morgan: So her cat knocked out one of these little like square panels in the, the window, the bottom of the door.

Em: Is the cat a sumo wrestler? What do you mean knocked out a–?

Morgan: [laughs] Dude, I don’t even know which cat it was.

Em: A cat knocked out a panel?

Morgan: If I, if I had to guess, it was probably Nona or Ophie. And, and yes, they could be sumo wrestlers.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Not with their weight, but because they’re crazy.

Em: Just, just their– The force. Oh my gosh.

Morgan: Yes. And so he’ll– If someone’s delivering a package, he’ll go full force like [mimics howling], sprinting towards the door, but he can’t stop himself. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: So he just like slams into it, and then the little panel always is like popping out, and then we have to go put it back in. It’s just funny. But also Taylar’s cat hurt her hip or her paw like three or four days before Ollie did, maybe even a week. Because she was dangling off the banister–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –and then fell down. And so they ended up taking her to the vet. So then also part of me was like, “Maybe he heard that Mila was hurt and was getting some attention.” And Ollie and Mila, you know, they go way back. So I was like, “Maybe he was like, ‘Okay, well, [chuckles]–‘”

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Morgan: “‘–if Mila’s hurt, then I’m also gonna hurt my hip.’”

Em: Aw. [laughs] Like a sympathy pain, a friend sympathy pain.

Morgan: Yeah. That’s, that’s what I’m thinking maybe. I don’t know.

Em: Well, uh, funny enough, the reason I drink this week is also because of my dog. And a f– a few reasons. One is, um, he has been getting real chummy with the people who walk past our house, and so he’s been bending the fence. Um–

Morgan: That’s his street, so–

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Morgan: –he owns it.

Em: He’s been like popping up on the fence and I guess leaning on it or jumping on it so hard that now the fence is wobbly. And so, um, I did not know how expensive fence repair is.

Morgan: Is it like a wooden fence? Or iron–?

Em: It’s like, it’s like, it’s like a like just a random wooden fence, but it’s, it’s I guess weak under him, and–

Morgan: [laughs] He’s a brute force like you said.

Em: [chuckles] Brute force. And all of a sudden, I’m just like, “Oh, well, I’m just gonna see if I can get someone out here to repair it.” And all of a sudden, I was like, “Welp, I guess we’re just gonna wait for this thing to fall down because it’s wildly expensive.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: All of a sudden, my YouTube feed is like covered with like–

Morgan: DIY. [laughs]

Em: –“how to repair your own fence.” Yeah. I’m like, “I’m not meant for this.” But, um– So I’m mad at him because he’s broken my fence. But I’m also very excited because after I record with you– I have been traveling, and this was his first week boarding–

Morgan: Ooh.

Em: –and so I’m gonna go pick him up after I see you. Um–

Morgan: You haven’t even seen him? Why didn’t you pick him up?

Em: Because I knew he would just be a nightmare while we were recording, and I was like, “He can stay another night. It’s fine.” Um–

Morgan: We could have had two more cameras in this and had Hank and Ollie.

Em: [laughs] Actually, that would be very funny if we just used our own like home security cameras as like–

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: We just kept them in the corner while we’re recording, so everyone sees what we’re staring at.

Morgan: What we’re staring at. That’d be funny. Yeah.

Em: But no, I’m very excited.

Morgan: No, so I guess that’s what happens when you get a dog then. It becomes your reason as to why you drink every week.

Em: [chuckles] You’re telling me.

Morgan: It’s very dog parent of us. I’m just saying.

Em: I know. I used to not be this person, and now I can’t shut up about him. And most of the time it’s because he’s absolutely driven me to the point of insanity. But today, other than the fence, I actually am very excited to see him. And I– I’m very worried, I’m very worried that he thinks we abandoned him. Um, because he has– he had never is– I’m sorry people are gonna yell at me, but I– There was kind of– It was a no choice situation.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: But, um, I had to board him for multiple nights, when usually it’s encouraged that you board them for like one night or two so they get used to it.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: And I ended up boarding him for like a whole week. Um, and he’s never let– He’s never not been in our house since we got him. So I have been–

Morgan: Is he a rescue?

Em: Yeah, and we were like his, I think, fourth or fifth home. So I feel very, very guilty. No one has to yell at me. Trust me, I already feel like the worst person in the whole world. Um–

Morgan: No one yell at Em.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Nobody.

Em: If anyone is going to, I’m gonna go,”Well, you’re right. So.”

Morgan: Also boarding nowadays is so much more different than how it used to be. I mean, I don’t know where Hank’s being boarded, but–

Em: He’s at a boutique. He’s fine. [laughs]

Morgan: Exactly. That’s where Ollie goes too. And like they have doggy daycare all day long.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Like there, there’s not even like kennel style. It’s like you have a whole room–

Em: Yeah, yeah.

Morgan: –with a bed and sometimes a TV and a camera that you can watch the whole time. Like–

Em: There’s, there’s literally a, a– He’s not at this one, but there is a boutique doggy daycare boarding place next to us that literally has basically a whole apartment that you can rent out for your dog. So he feels like he’s in a bedroom with a TV on and a couch. Like I was like, “Who the hell is paying for this?”

Morgan: They have their own, they have their own back porch where they can like walk out–

Em: Yes!

Morgan: –and use the restroom.

Em: No, it’s truly– Like they have their own 1,000 square feet that’s totally furnished. I’m like, “What the hell is going on over there?”

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Um, so my options–

Morgan: And they’re like, “For an easy $700 a night.” [laughs]

Em: It was. I, I did look for the price. I was like, “Just out of cur–” But, um, yeah, it– We really run the gamut here that he could be at the pound or he could be at the Ritz. So he’s fine.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: I know he’s fine, but I’m still worried that he thinks I left him. So I’m excited to see him. That’s why I drink.

Morgan: No, he probably had a great time, and then he’ll love you even more when you get him.

Em: I hope so. So, and then I–

Morgan: I’m so sad that you didn’t get him before, Em.

Em: I know.

Morgan: I, I would have been like, “Sorry, recording’s cancelled. I have to get my dog.”

Em: [laughs] No, I– I was very happy to like just veg out and not have to think about him. ’Cause he’s a Velcro dog. So every time I get off the couch, he’s up and at ‘em and like, “Where are we going?”

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, I have often started saying that wherever my ankles are, my dog is. And so, it’s just a lot easier to walk around the house without him. So I was like, “Give me–“

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: “Let me have 24 hours of peace.” So–

Morgan: Yeah, well–

Em: –I’ve been enjoying that.

Morgan: Ollie’s the same way.

Em: Yeah?

Morgan: Yeah, he’s at my ankles right now as we speak.

Em: [laughs] Right. Yeah, so.

Morgan: [laughs] So.

Em: Okay. Well, uh, s– You– Since usually I go first, but I think on your show, do you go first? Or do you switch off?

Morgan: Yeah, that’s why I think we’re at a crossroads. So do you go first, or do I go first?

Em: Aaah! Um, I don’t know. I guess I– You are the guest, so I’m gonna have you go first, if that’s okay. Just ’cause I–

Morgan: Okay.

Em: Otherwise it’d be rude. So, um–

Morgan: So, do you have– you have a little intro? Oh, yeah, and that’s why– Yes, I’m ready.

Em: [chuckles] Great. Here’s Morgan.

[laughter]

Em: Ta-da! I don’t know. We had– Take it away, Morgan.

Morgan: Well, wait. Are we doing that, “And– That’s– Why–“ Don’t you do that?

Em: No, that’s how we– That’s how we hang up.

Morgan: Oh, that’s how you hang up. Okay, that’s what– That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.

Em: [laughs] But it’s very nice that– I mean, by saying that at all, you’ve proven that you probably listen– You’ve listened all the way through an episode or something, so.

Morgan: Yeah, at least one. But I really don’t listen to any podcast, not even my own. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I’ve never listened to a full episode of Creeps and Crimes. Okay. So–

Em: Understood.

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Morgan’s Story – The Hat Man

Morgan: Well, first off, I texted Eva, and I was like, “Eva, Em has covered everything in the book. What haven’t they covered?”

Em: You're very sweet.

Morgan: And Eva’s like, “Um, couldn’t tell you.” So I conjured up this idea. Actually, based–

Em: Thanks, Eva, by the way.

Morgan: –based off of both of our Reddit th– Reddit threads–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –where people were like, “Um, why hasn’t Em covered this?” And I thought that today’s subject would be perfect for both of us because we both have talked about this entity at lengths like here or there without ever truly covering it.

Em: Oh, okay.

Morgan: And so this Paraween extravaganza is a perfect time for it because Halloween is the one time of year where the veil between the ordinary and the uncanny is just a little bit thinner.

Em: [gasps]

Morgan: And among all the monsters and urban legends that we cover in October, this one feels especially perfect for this season. Because he’s not a creature from a movie, and he’s not just some spooky story passed down from campfires. He’s something far stranger. So today, I’m gonna be talking about the Hat Man.

Em: Shut the fuck up. I’m so excited. Okay. I have literally n– Okay. Yes, please. Please go on.

Morgan: Sorry for my big dra– I was like typing that. I was like, “This is gonna be good.” Okay.

Em: I was like, “Frankenstein?” I was– [laughs]

Morgan: “Frankenstein?” No, I’m talking about the Hat Man. So if you’ve ever woken up in the middle of the night, frozen in place, and felt this undeniable presence that something or someone is standing over you–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –watching you, you might already know exactly who I mean. He’s tall; he’s featureless; and he’s cloaked in darkness. And the only detail that sets him apart from any other shadow feature is this wide-brimmed hat–

Em: Have you ever s–

Morgan: –sometimes described as a fedora, other times a top hat, or even a cowboy hat.

Em: Have you ever seen him?

Morgan: I ha– experienced sleep paralysis maybe like fourth or fifth grade. And the way my bedroom is set up, there was– My childhood bedroom. There was a little hallway like– So here’s my bed. I’m facing two closets–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –and then to the right of me is this little hallway where the door would be. So like I couldn’t see my door into my bedroom from my bed.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: And like, I mean, tiny, tiny hallway. It’s just like a little chunk of wall.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: And it was the first time I had sleep paralysis, and– Do you remember those little desk fans? They were like–

Em: [chuckles] Yeah.

Morgan: And they were really loud sometimes.

Em: Yes.

Morgan: Well, mine was like especially loud, way louder than my siblings’. And so I remember being in paralysis and that fan getting progressively slower–

Em: [gasps]

Morgan: –and progressively louder, and there was this figure in the corner by that door. And it was like slowly approaching me. And I was so young, but I, I remember trying to scream, “Mom! Mom! Mom!” And then finally, I woke up, and I was like [whisper screams], “Mom!”, you know, like at the top of my lungs.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: And I guess I never really thought more about it. Trauma – brain probably blocked it out. But when I’m typing these notes, I’m like, “Holy shit. What if that was the Hat Man?”

[Em glances to their side out the window, jumping and startling]

Em: Oh my god. S-s– A delivery person just showed up. [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs] With a tall hat on?

Em: [laughs] No, but all of a sudden– Like I’m right, I’m right next to my window. Like what you can’t see right here [holds up hand to side of camera frame] is a window.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: And so I just saw a man go “boom.” [laughs] I’m so sorry.

Morgan: There’s Hat Man delivering your Amazon Prime.

Em: You really a– You had me so freaked out, and then all of a sudden, that happened. I went, “This is it.”

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Okay. I’m so sorry. I’m so sorry.

Morgan: So I, so I was thinking though, like based off these notes and like what everyone else in the world has been saying, I was like, “I wonder if that was Hat Man.” But I can’t like actually like remember what he looked like.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: I just knew it was like a shadow of a figure–

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: –like a tall Slender Man type ordeal situation coming closer and closer to me. And then any other sleep paralysis I’ve had, it’s been doppelgängers, so that was weird.

Em: What? I’ve never had– That’s crazy.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: No, I’ve never had that.

Morgan: Yeah, the other like prominent one that I vividly remember and tell people– I was in college in my freshman dorm, and my roommate– She always like got up super early for her 8 a.m.s, but I scheduled like 10 a.m.s, nothing earlier than that. So I would sleep in.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: But I remember sleeping, and when I woke up – this is what’s weird – is that I was facing the wall, and I had this like fake like Van Gogh painting, uh, but it was a poster on that side of the wall. So I was facing the wall, sleeping curled up like this [mimics sleeping on side in fetal position], and I remember feeling somebody poke my back.

Em: Eugh.

Morgan: And so I– My eyes are open. I v– I can see my dorm room clearly. And– But when I woke up, like in my paralysis, I wasn’t facing that wall. I was like facing– Or maybe my head was just like completely turned like to look out into the room–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –and it was my roommate. But like it didn’t look like my roommate, but it was my roommate.

Em: Ew.

Morgan: And she was like, [mimes poking someone] “Wake up. Wake up. Wake up.”

Em: Eugh!

Morgan: Yeah, I know. Fucking freaky. And so I like– When I finally was able to wake up, I was facing the wall. I wasn’t even facing that, and there was no one there. And she had been gone for hours. It was probably like 9 a.m. or 10 a.m. at that point, so.

Em: [groans] Fucking creepy. Uh, I– Definitely well done on the goosebumps. Um, I– That–

Morgan: [chuckles] Yeah, I hate that story.

Em: [chuckles] Yeah, oh my god. It’s also like so maybe your body never turned around, but like your soul turned around and saw it. Eugh.

Morgan: Yeah, Taylar and I, we just had this conversation actually that like what if we’re actually astral like projecting in a way as like a protection way?

Em: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Morgan: To like fight in that dimension or whatever you want to believe that veil is during sleep paralysis so you see things.

Em: Sure. Like while you’re sleeping–

Morgan: ’Cause like there’s no explanation why I would be facing the wall but seeing this– the room this way like clearly.

Em: Yeah, like your, your spirit knew to like be on guard while you were resting or something.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Oh my god. Ew.

Morgan: Yeah, I don’t know.

Em: Ooh, ooh.

Morgan: Have you ever had sleep paralysis?

Em: Um, I have, but I, I don’t even know if it was a– the Hat Man himself. It was a ne– never a hatted man. It was always just a random–

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: –seemed bald man. It was a very round head.

Morgan: Oh, well.

Em: Um, but it was, um, just like literally as if I was seeing someone’s shadow and I couldn’t see the person. It was just a solid black figure who would just stand over me. It was never– They never moved. They never approached me. I would just wake up, and they were already hovering over me.

Morgan: Like, like if you were laying like this [leans back, looking up at ceiling]. It was like right there [waves hand over the length of her body as if someone were floating over them]

Em: No, not like we’re like– like we’re holding each– Like, like just– As if you’re standing over someone’s bed and looking at them while they’re sleeping.

Morgan: Oh, I hate that.

Em: Um, and then I had–

Morgan: You don’t even get the like experience of them approaching you. You wake up, and they’re there.

Em: [laughs] Yeah. And to the– Actually, I– Not– I hope I don’t have to like prove it to myself later tonight or anything, but the last few times I’ve had sleep paralysis, I was aware of it before I even opened my eyes.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: And I just thought, “If I open my eyes, I’m about to see something really fucking scary. Just keep it together. [chuckles] Like breathe through it. It’s gonna go away.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: But I can feel someone still standing over me. Um, and the–

Morgan: Wait, that’s crazy because I’ve like been able to train myself the same way ’cause I had it so much as a kid–

Em: Really?

Morgan: –that I know what to do. And I’m like, “Just breathe. Don’t open your eyes.” Like I know when I’m in it.

Em: Yeah. Yeah. 100%.

Morgan: That’s crazy.

Em: And there were times if I’m lying next to Allison– First of all, Allison doesn’t believe in any of this, so she would be zero fucking help. But also–

Morgan: Mm-hmm. Same with Aaron, so. [laughs]

Em: –every now and then I’m like, “I’m gonna keep my eyes closed ’cause I don’t want to see what’s going on. But let me just, for science, just see if I can scream as loud as possible to wake Allison up if she could help me.” And I can never do it. I still have never learned how to break that wall. But, um, I–

Morgan: “For research purposes, let me scream.” [laughs]

Em: I was like, “While we’re here, you know, just fucking around.” Um, when I was a little kid, my first sleep paralysis was actually in a dream, and a werewolf was chasing me, and when I woke up the werewolf was in my room.

Morgan: Ohh!

Em: That was some Freddy Krueger shit. I like conjured it.

Morgan: Yeah, seriously.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Ooh, I hate that for you.

Em: And I tried to scream for help, and nobody came, of course. And anyway, I’m sure that–

Morgan: I don’t like that. Not the werewolf.

Em: [laughs] Me either. No. Anyway, uh–

Morgan: Was it, was it Jacob? From Twi–

Em: [laughs] Can you imagine? No. I, uh, I think it was just– You know what was funny? The– In the dream, it was like, um, my mom would always drop me off at this daycare in the gym while she was working out. And I remember him – this werewolf – breaking into the daycare and trying to chase me through the ball pit, and the ball pit was like fucking quicksand. I couldn’t get away fast enough. [laughs] And this werewolf jumped on top of me while I was in the ball pit, and I woke up in my room, and the werewolf was in there.

Morgan: Why? Like were you like fascinated by werewolves as a kid? Like was that your–?

Em: No, I had no interest in werewolves. I don’t know what–

Morgan: What about Twilight? Were you a Twilight kid?

Em: Well, when I was, when I was– At the age that this happened, Twilight hadn’t come out yet.

Morgan: Oh, yeah. ’Cause what if Taylor– you woke up, and it’s like Taylor Lautner? [laughs]

Em: [laughs] That would be a special– And then I’m a time traveler, so, um–

Morgan: And then you’re a time traveler.

Em: Sorry. Anyway–

Morgan: Yeah, that’s weird. That’s crazy. I wonder why– what your connection is like ancestrally to werewolves.

Em: Yeah. I–

Morgan: What if you are a werewolf?

Em: [small howl] Ow-ooh, I don’t know. It’s-

Morgan: Ow-ooh.

Em: [laughs] Uh, maybe Hank can sense that in me. I don’t know.

Morgan: Yeah, maybe. Okay.

Em: I don’t know. The end. The Hat Man.

Morgan: The end. That’s so scary, Em. I’m sorry you went through that. [laughs] The werewolf.

Em: I’m sorry you went through that.

Morgan: The Werewolf Chronicles. Okay, let me see.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Okay, so he’s tall; he’s featureless, and he’s always cloaked in this darkness. And the only detail that sets him apart is his hat, like we said – either a cowboy hat, a wide-brimmed hat, sometimes a fedora, sometimes a top hat.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Whatever the shape, his silhouette is unmistakable. The Hat Man isn’t tied to a single town or a single culture or even a single time period because he shows up everywhere. People who have never spoken to one another, who live on opposite ends of the world, describe seeing the same thing. A man in a hat watching from the corner of the room.

Em: Mm-mmm.

Morgan: Sometimes silent, a little bit menacing, and sometimes just standing there, but always he’s unforgettable. And that’s what makes the Hat Man the perfect subject for Halloween because he exists in this eerie liminal space that’s half folklore, half personal fucking nightmare.

Em: What a good idea.

Morgan: And it just makes him a little bit harder to dismiss. He’s not just out there in the world. He’s in here, in the most private vulnerable moments of our lives when we’re asleep, when we’re experiencing sleep paralysis, and when we’re alone in the dark, which is like kind of like feeding on like childhood– like the most common childhood fears: being in the dark, you know?

Em: I, I did think you were gonna say, “It’s like he’s Santa.” Um, but he’s just like–

Morgan: Yeah. I mean, he’s also Santa Claus.

Em: He’s always– He’s always there.

Morgan: Don’t tell the kids.

Em: He sees you. He’s got a hat. Um, no. I, uh, yeah, I think– I, I wonder if you’re gonna touch on this, but I would imagine it starts with all of our natural fear of being in the dark, right? And just seeing– just your sha–

Morgan: I–

Em: –your brain coming up with shadows?

Morgan: I do. I do kind of touch on that at the end here, yeah.

Em: Okay.

Morgan: So I’m gonna dig into the history of the Hat Man. But when I say history of the Hat Man, we’re not talking about like the normal way that you would trace a ghost story to like some 19th, 18th century diary–

Em: Sure.

Morgan: –because he doesn’t really emerge from a single source. He’s more like this product from these layers over time, starting with these ancient shadow folklores all the way to the digital age where he was really amplif-amplified. So long before internet forums like Reddit or 4chan, cultures around the world told stories of these nighttime spirits or shadow beings or entities that would sit on your chest during sleep.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Um, these sleep demons appear in medieval folklore and European witchcraft texts and in non-western spiritual traditions. For example, there is something called the “night hag”. And the night hag is ancient, and it’s similar to Hat Man because the night hag is this malicious spirit or demon who sits on sleepers. It suffocates them and induces terror.

Em: I didn’t know, I didn’t know she had a name. Yeah, very cool.

Morgan: The night hag, yes.

Em: Great.

Morgan: And in many accounts, the victim is paralyzed, unable to move or speak or cry out, so sleep paralysis. And many traditions also speak of shades or soul wanderers at night or shadowy watchers; there’s multiple names for them. In Indigenous folklore, some believe that a person’s outer shadow might wander independently while there’s– that person is sleeping and being– become capable of scaring the shit out of somebody who might be stuck in paralysis if they were to wander in that direction.

Em: Mm.

Morgan: Um, there’s so many example of these older traditions that describe this shadow presence or spirit during a sleep paralysis episode. However, there is none that really describe our typical silhouette in a tall hat, fedora, cowboy hat, maybe even a ball cap. I don’t know. Does Hat Man wear a ball cap every now and then?

Em: [laughs] I like that he has like a whole closet full of every, every–

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: What if he’s got a, a– What’s– an Abraham Lincoln hat? I don’t know.

Morgan: [laughs] His wardrobe is all the same. It’s his trench coat–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: –and then– It’s like black trench coats lined up, and then it’s like five different styles of hats.

Em: [laughs] You know, it’s funny you mentioned that because in my mind he has a trench coat, and I. I do– I imagine he’s got like big clunky boots.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Um, and in my mind he’s got the wide-brim hat like Jeepers Creepers. Do you–

Morgan: Mm-hmm. See in my mind, I see like a top– an Abraham Lincoln top hat.

Em: Really? Are you fucking with me? Really?

Morgan: No, I swear. That’s how I view him.

Em: Interesting. [laughs] Imagine if he starts talking. He’s like, [deep dramatic voice] “Four score and se–“

Morgan: [laughs] [deep dramatic voice] “And seven years ago.”

Em: Oh, that’s weird. I made a joke about the Abraham Lincoln hat ’cause I thought like nobody thinks it’s that hat. Okay, well e–

Morgan: No, that’s how I see him and with like a– maybe not like a, a top hat, but like I don’t know. No, yeah, a top hat is how I see him.

Em: Like a fan– like a fancy hat. Yeah.

Morgan: Mhm. Yeah.

Em: Hm, interesting.

Morgan: Like a formal attire. But–

Em: I’ve never heard cowboy hat, but that makes sense too.

Morgan: Yeah. Over the course of the 1900s and especially into the later half of the century, personal accounts started shifting from this supernatural folklore to this population-wide shadow person phenomenon, meaning it was no longer ancient, that it was happening in current time, and people were finally talking about it. The topic of shadow people started gaining traction in paranormal circles, and even authors began collecting reports. Now, the term itself is pretty vague, but it became this kind of catchall for entities that are dark, shapeless, semi-solid, humanlike shadows, shadow people.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: And then on April 12, 2001, there was a radio host named Art Bell who was on the show Coast to Coast AM. He interviewed this half Cherokee man, sometimes referred to as Thunder Strike or SwiftDeer. Um, his name was Harley Reagan. His background is a little confusing. I honestly had a hard time understanding some of it, and it’s somewhat also, I think, controversial to some, which is why I’m gonna keep this brief. But I just wanted to mention this interview in particular.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: But they interviewed him on radio about shadow people. And this was actually one of the first times the topic of shadow people were discussed at length publicly. While during the show, listeners were encouraged to submit drawings of shadow people that they had seen. And a large number of these drawings that were sent in were then shared publicly on the show’s website, like almost immediately. This broadcast is often referred to as the starting point of taking shadow people from this niche– these niche reports and turning them into something that will become collectively speculated about and documented in the paranormal community. And majority of them, guess what they looked like, Em?

Em: Abraham Lincoln. What?

Morgan: Abraham Lincoln. Abr–

Em: Shut the fuck up. No way.

Morgan: Sh– No, but Hat Man. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: For me, Abraham Lincoln. For you, the–

Em: You, you got me good.

Morgan: –the wide-brimmed hat. And for some, the cowboy.

Em: Okay, so– So, okay. 2001 is the, the birth year of the Hat Man e-essentially, or at least popularity.

Morgan: Essentially, yes. Yes, essentially.

Em: Interesting.

Morgan: And then in October of that same year, 2001, there was an author named Heidi Hollis who published writings on shadow people, helping solidify the lore of these dark silhouettes. And I’m actually gonna come back to Heidi’s book when I talk about the theories of who or what Hat Man could be. Um–

Em: Okay.

Morgan: –so, we’ll circle back to that. But over the 2000s, reports and speculation about shadow people multiplied. Online forums, ghost investigation sites, radio programs, all built these– this collective archive of almost near identical experiences from people around the world. And that’s when we really started picking up that there was one specific shadow person that was one of the most common throughout these reports, and this was the Hat Man. A lot of people think that the Hat Man actually stems from a creepypasta similar to the Rake or even Slender Man.

Em: Mm.

Morgan: However, that’s not the case at all.

Em: Okay.

Morgan: And while he does feel old, almost ancient, since a lot of the time when you look up the history of the Hat Man, it combines these ancient shadow folklores with a lot of modern reports, he is actually a relatively new entity, given the time period that we have here.

Em: Mm-hmm. Sure.

Morgan: And if you really think about it, this makes sense because people in the 1700s aren’t gonna see this man dressed in like 1940s, 50s, you know, business attire–

Em: Great point.

Morgan: –’cause like that’s what he’s really wearing, you know.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Which is weird that– Why did we all choose that? Like he truly seems like some grumpy businessman in his hat. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Um, we briefly–

Em: Yeah, actu– That’s a great point. Okay.

Morgan: [chuckles] We briefly discussed this at the beginning, but Hat Man has a few very specific characteristics. He’s tall, usually between six and eight feet, but featureless, made of shadow. His hat is kind of his calling card, like Em and I have been joking the entire time. It’s a fedora, sometimes a wine– wide-brimmed hat, sometimes a cowboy hat, and occasionally a tall top hat. We’re not sure on baseball caps just yet.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Um, no matter which type of hat, the outline and the fact that he is wearing a hat is always there. And he is often described as wearing this long trench coat or cloak or even a cape that hangs to the ground and just looks like really heavy. And it kind of gives the–

Em: A cape?

Morgan: Yeah, I could see a cape, too.

Em: A cape, yeah. I could see that.

Morgan: And it kind of gives the impression of formality, like he’s dressed for an important event. His–

Em: Ooh. So do people ever compare him to like the Grim Reaper then?

Morgan: Oh, maybe.

Em: Like he’s, he’s here to collect you.

Morgan: Yes. Oh, that was one of the theories is that some cultures believe that Hat Man is like– almost like the Grim Reaper or even Mothman like before a tragic event–

Em: Mm.

Morgan: –or like calling your– a death card situation.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: Um, his face is usually absent. His head is like this dark void, and there’s a darker patch of shadows with no eyes, no mouth, no features. And in some accounts though, he does have these glowing red or piercing yellow eyes that will shine out of his blackness, I guess. Um–

Em: Sure, out of his hole. Yeah.

Morgan: And his movement is pretty odd because he doesn’t walk like a normal person. Instead, uh, the reports say that he either drifts or hovers or just like appears in the corner of a doorway.

Em: Mm.

Morgan: So for me, he probably drifted in. For Em, he just appeared.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Well, your man was bald. He was without hat. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Yeah. I– Y– And I’m now I’m overthinking it, and in my brain, he’s like– he now owns a hat. And so–

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: But, um, yeah, I don’t– I– And maybe for all we know, the bald guy I saw is the Hat Man. He was just like feeling confident about his bald head that day. I don’t know.

Morgan: Yeah. And he was like–

Em: But–

Morgan: He, he was in his wardrobe before, and he was like, “You know what? No hat for Em.”

Em: Yeah. He’s like, “It’s stuffy in here. It’s stuffy in here. This is an informal meeting. I can take my hat off.” Um–

Morgan: Yeah. That’s right.

Em: So I– Yeah, he would just appear for me.

Morgan: Yes. And he hovered, I guess, or drifted for me. Um, some reports say that he will lean forward, tilting his head almost like he’s like examining you. So, approaching the bed like how you described it–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –um, your bald man, and is just kind of looking over you. And it’s these little details that make the Hat Man reports stand out from other shadow people. He’s usually reported in three different scenarios. The first being the obvious sleep paralysis encounters. Victims of the Hat Man will wake up in bed, unable to move with the Hat Man looking at the foot of the bed or standing in the doorway. And when you’re in paralysis, your body sort of locks in place, so it leaves the victims completely trapped as the Hat Man seems to watch or approach slowly or lean in closer.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Absolutely terrifying. I hate all three of those scenarios.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Um, the second scenario is during haunting experiences. Some people have claimed to see Hat Man while fully awake, reporting that he has appeared in hallways, corners of rooms, or sometimes even in mirrors.

Em: Eugh.

Morgan: I hate the mirrors.

Em: I hate the mirrors.

Morgan: There have even been cases of haunted houses where the entire family has seen him throughout the house or a shadow, um, describing the same figure.

Em: I hate that too.

Morgan: The third scenario is a bit more interesting. Oh god, here I go. Okay.

Em: Tell me.

Morgan: Diphenhydramine.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Uh-huh?

Morgan: Yes. Diphen–

Em: Okay.

Morgan: Diphenhydramine, or brand name Benadryl–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: –is an over-the-counter antihistamine. At normal doses, it treats allergies, but at high doses it can become a deliriant–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –or a class of drugs that causes vivid, fully-formed hallucinations, confusion, or severe cognitive impairment.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: People who abuse Benadryl recreationally– which this is new to me actually. I did not know that, that this caused delirium.

Em: Oh, really? Oh, I–

Morgan: Yeah, Benadryl.

Em: I– Sorry. Finish your sentence first, and then I’ll, I’ll do mine.

Morgan: Okay. –or accidentally overdose, often report seeing shadowy figures.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Do you wanna–?

Em: Sure. I was gonna say the only– Up until this point, the only thing I knew about the Hat Man was that you see him if you take too much Benadryl. That was like the– my first, um–

Morgan: Yes. And that was our first experience of like COVID brainrot actually.

Em: Oh, really?

Morgan: It was, it was a me– Yeah, I’ll talk about it.

Em: Oh my god, that’s so fascinating ’cause I really never heard about that. I always heard of like, oh, everyone has a sleep paralysis demon like in general.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Everyone has se– has seen shadow people, but I never heard about the Hat Man un-until the context of Benadryl was being talked about.

Morgan: Yeah. Do you remember like when you made that connection? Was it TikTok?

Em: It must have been now that I– now that you’re bringing it up. It was certainly a meme, so it was online–

Morgan: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Em: –’cause you would just hear like, “Oh, I took too much Benadryl. Oh, get ready to see the Hat Man.” Something like that.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: That’s– That was my first– uh, par– notice of it.

Morgan: Yeah. I guess I, I don’t know what kind of For You page I was on at that point in time.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I guess, uh, ice whipped coffee because I don’t remember ever seeing the Hat Man situation go viral.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I don’t know. Anyway.

Em: Oh my god, that’s– You just blew my mind. I know you haven’t even gotten there yet, but wow, what a fun fact. Okay.

Morgan: Yeah. So, this isn’t like LSD’s geometric visuals. Deliriants cause real feeling hallucinations, and oftentimes users can’t even tell that they are hallucinating or that they had taken too much Benadryl.

Em: Right.

Morgan: On forums like Reddit, there are countless reports describing a specific hallucination at high doses, reports that state that they see a tall, shadowy man in a trench coat and a hat–

Em: Hm.

Morgan: –often standing silently in the corner of the room – sometimes even multiple figures, but the main one is always dubbed the Hat Man. There is literally a saying that says, quote, “Don’t take too much Benadryl or you’ll meet the Hat Man.”

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: It’s actually become so common that on the Reddit thread DPH, which is subreddit about the diphenhydramine [pronounced “di-fin-hi-dra-meen”], diphenhydramine [pronounced “dip-in-hi-dra-meen”], however you say it. Um, the Hat Man is practically their mascot.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: It like– He’s like their picture.

Em: I’m telling you if– Benadryl has the chance to do the funniest thing in the world right now.

Morgan: No, literally. Don’t fuck this up, all right?

Em: Like just make your– Like they would be– You know how there’s those random, um, brands on TikTok that just post the craziest shit, like Nutter Butter and Sour Patch Kids and all that?

Morgan: Yes. Yeah.

Em: If Benadryl just really leaned into the Hat Man shit– I know it’s technically probably like so bad for their brand, but it would– in other ways, it–

Morgan: Absolutely ’cause it’s like overdosing, you know.

Em: But in other ways, it’d be so good for their brand.

Morgan: Yeah. [laughs] Um–

Em: Wow.

Morgan: The, the fact that people– Okay. Ollie, you good? He’s up now.

Em: Oh boy.

Morgan: He’s gonna, he’s going to be up here soon.

Em: ‘kay.

Morgan: The fact that people across the globe describe the same entity is what makes Hat Man so interesting. I’m gonna actually come back to the TikTok thing. Reports come from North America, Europe, South America, Asia, and Africa with no cultural link or common folklore that would explain why this specific or exact figure keeps reappearing. So the realization that thousands are seeing the same shadow with a hat gave rise to Hat Man’s current reputation that he is no– not just a personal nightmare but a shared visitor across the globe. During peak COVID time, TikTok blew up with jokes about the Benadryl Hat Man. There were memes of his silhouette with captions that said, “Me waiting for you after 1,000 milligrams of Benadryl.”

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: It’d be like– [laughs] And it’d be like a picture of Hat Man. Um, basically a shorthand for, “You’re about to trip so fucking hard that you’re gonna see the Hat Man.”

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: I’m telling you, he could be the new Duolingo owl, like–

Morgan: I missed all of this, so I feel really left out of this experience of the ha– Benadryl Hat Man.

Em: I, I didn’t see any of this, but I mean, I can– I’m envisioning it in my head. You’re writing it for me right now. It’s very funny.

Morgan: On the comments. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Morgan: Now, while bas– Okay. Now, while this joke can be funny, I am gonna put a major disclaimer–

Em: Sure.

Morgan: –from Em and I both here to obviously not do this at home–

Em: Do not overdose.

Morgan: –because Benadryl overdosing is fucking dangerous. It can legit cause seizures, heart arrhythmias, coma, and even death. So this is not a call to action for anyone to meet Hat Man. Okay?

Em: Right.

Morgan: Please do not actually.

Em: Right. The point of the joke is you’re in trouble and it’s bad if you meet him. [laughs]

Morgan: Yes. Exactly.

Em: Do not do that.

Morgan: It’s like people in– This is still not funny, but this is what my For You pa– This is what I’m imagining: people in anaphylactic shock or something–

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Morgan: –and people are commenting–

Em: Tagging us.

Morgan: –and they’re like, “Oh, yeah, you’re about to meet the Hat Man,” you know. Like that’s, that’s what I’m picturing. Okay, on a more conspiracy note, no one has been able to really track down who Hat Man is, only speculate. And there is all kinds of speculation, starting with some more psychological or neurological theories that suggest that Hat Man is not an entity at all, but more of a projection of our own minds under stress. For example, in the sleep paralysis scenarios: during REM sleep, your brain is paralyzed, so you don’t act out dreams.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Sometimes you wake up before the paralysis lifts. You’re conscious but can’t move. And your amygdala [pronounced “a-mig-dah-la”], is that how you say that? Amy– amygdala [pronounced “uh-mig-duh-la”]?

Em: Amy– Amygdala? Yeah.

Morgan: Amygdala. Yes. And your amygdala [pronounced “a-mig-dah-la”]. [laughs] Whoa.

Em: [laughs] I was like Man-Mandela effect?

Morgan: Mandela effect? Um, your amygdala, or your fear center fires. The brain then misinterprets the environment and creates this like intruder image. And because hats and coats are common signs of strangers, the shadow often takes this form. And then as for the Benadryl hallucinations, a lot of people believe that since deliriants or even high fevers can produce lifelike shadow people hallucinations, that it’s actually the fault of the Hat Man memes because it sort of primed people to hallucinate a man in a hat specifically.

Em: Mhm.

Morgan: Especially because the Benadryl Hat Man connection didn’t really become popular until it did.

Em: Interesting.

Morgan: And then we also have pattern recognition. Humans evolved to detect faces and threats in the dark under stress–

Em: Sure.

Morgan: –low light, or half awake states. And a coat rack or a shadow can seem like a tall man. Like I can’t tell you how many times I grew up as a kid, and I’m like, “Oh, there’s a man there.” You know, like in the shadows.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: And it’s really just like a, a coat rack or a lamp with something hanging on it.

Em: I, I had a– I had what I thought was a regular sleep paralysis demon as a kid, and it ended up just being the shadow of the toilet.

Morgan: [laughs] Were you sleeping in the bathroom?

Em: My– When I would get scared and I would go sleep in my mom’s room, she had like an attached bathroom–

Morgan: And the– Okay.

Em: –and she’d leave the door open.

Morgan: And you could see it.

Em: And then there was a window that would hit the toilet and then hit the wall, and it just– It literally looked like a grown ass man. It was very scary. And–

Morgan: I thought you were about to tell me when you got scared, you went to the tub, and you slept in the tub.

Em: Aww.

Morgan: And so then the shad– [laughs] That would have been really sad.

Em: [laughs] Thank god nothing that pitiful yet, but hold on. Just wait. Um, it’ll, it’ll show.

Morgan: I would have had to call, uh, BetterHelp for you if you were sleeping in the tub.

Em: [laughs] No.

Morgan: Okay. Um, the mind will then fill in a hat or cloak because that silhouette is like almost a universal sign for stranger danger.

Em: Mhm.

Morgan: But to me, while those explanations do make sense, if I’m feeling logical, I think they’re fucking boring. So we’re gonna switch gears–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: –to the paranormal and the supernatural theories.

Em: Love it.

Morgan: Paranormal communities often describe shadow people as “lesser entities” with the Hat Man as their more powerful leader or overseer. He’s the man in charge. So when you just see a shadow run by, that’s the Hat Man’s little–

Em: Minion.

Morgan: –wor– Yeah, his little minion. It’s his little worker.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Some claim that he’s not just a spirit but something actually demonic. Many experiencers or many victims report feeling an intense– intense sense of dread, not just fear. And then also there’s a theory that he could potentially be inter-dimensional or even alien.

Em: Ohh.

Morgan: And this is when I bring back Heidi Hollis. So Heidi Hollis was that author who first wrote that book about shadow people and was like bringing in collective reports from people in 2001 after the radio show.

Em: Mhm.

Morgan: Um, she helped popularize the term Hat Man. And in her book, she theorized that shadow people and the Hat Man are related to aliens or inter-dimensional beings who cloak themselves in darkness.

Em: Interesting.

Morgan: And in her book (it’s called The Secret War), she suggests that these entities are actually a part of this ongoing spiritual battle.

Em: Interesting. I–

Morgan: So maybe we’re actually being abducted by Hat Man.

Em: You know, Christine isn’t here, but this would be the theory she would want to run with for sure. Um–

Morgan: Yeah. [laughs]

Em: I– Just as someone who– I know she’s absolutely thinks that aliens are coming at some point or they’re, they’re watching us right now. So it would make total sense that they would, in a liminal space when we’re all very relaxed and not stressed, and it would– might be easier to tap into our brains or whatever. Um–

Morgan: Well, and also I kind of think like with this theory that like this and men in black go hand in hand. I don’t know how you feel about men in black–

Em: Mm.

Morgan: –but like I don’t think they’re us. I think they’re like not human.

Em: I’ve never really thought about the men in black long enough to think about it, but that makes sense to me. That–

Morgan: So like to me, their nighttime attire– ’Cause we know they come in their suits, right, and their glasses. But maybe their nighttime attire is their trench coats over their suits–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –and their little hats. And so–

Em: Their fancy hats.

Morgan: –they’re coming in to either like, I don’t know, wipe our memories if we were abducted. Now I’m getting a little crazy.

Em: That’s– And you know what? And, to add to that, uh, it’s always thought that aliens are all– They’re trying to look enough like us that they pass, but there’s always something a little off.

Morgan: A little uncanny, yeah.

Em: And it would make sense that they’re still dressed like 40s, 50s, like a little outdated in their clothing.

Morgan: Yeah, get with the times, aliens.

Em: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Interesting. Um, I never thought that they could be aliens. I always assumed ghost, but I also– I, just like how you mentioned, I always felt dread. I always assumed there was some sort of hierarchy, like it felt like he ruled the roost if he was in the room.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, never occurred to me, alien. That’s blown my mind right now.

Morgan: Yeah. Yes. And now, I didn’t read The Secret War by Heidi Hollis, but if you guys are interested–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –I think it’s on Amazon. Um, another theory that holds that the Hat Man may have started as like a handful of hallucinations but became a tulpa. Am I saying that right?

Em: Tulpa. Yeah.

Morgan: Or a being sustained by collective belief. The more that people talk about and fear him, the stronger and more independent he becomes.

Em: Yeah. Like all of our brain power is accidentally con-conjuring him or something.

Morgan: Right, like how we think about like creepy accounts like with the Rake specifically.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Speaking of the Rake, Em–

Em: Yeah?

Morgan: –have you seen the video on TikTok about the North Carolina 911 call?

Em: No.

Morgan: Stop.

Em: Well, now that you’ve mentioned it, it’ll be here in five seconds, but no, I haven’t seen it yet.

Morgan: Oh– You have to look it up after this. Basically, this guy is like, “I see these people bleeding on the side of the road.” It’s like a recording, a 911 call. And the 911 dispatcher is like no help at all. She’s like, [southern accent] “Where at, sir? Where are you at?”

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: He’s like, “I’m passing, you– Patriots Creek right now.” And he– she’s like, “Where, sir?” Then you hear “boom!”, like in the back of his– the bed of his truck. And he’s like, “What the fuck?” He’s like, “That’s not human. That’s not human.” And she’s like, “Where are you at, sir?” And he’s like–

Em: [laughs] Oh my god.

Morgan: –he’s like, “It’s in the bed of my truck. It’s in the bed of my truck.” And you can hear it like pounding on the top of the thing like, trying to get in.

Em: Oh my god.

Morgan: And then this sheriff, who’s like a legit sheriff. Like people have like went on to the whatever county this was, their sheriff website, and this guy is actually there. And he’s from this documentary, but I think it’s a YouTube docuseries that this clip was pulled from. And he gets on afterwards. He’s talking. He’s like, [Southern accent] “He slammed on his brakes, and that–“

Em: [chuckles]

Morgan: “– that being went flying forward, landed on its two feet, rushed off into the woods. When my department and I talk about this case, it just gives us shivers.”

Em: Ooh. Well done, btw.

Morgan: Yeah, you have to listen to it because the 911 call is actually fucking crazy.

Em: I, I feel like I, I heard–

Morgan: But everyone is like, “The Rake, the Rake. Oh my god, it’s a Rake.” That’s their theory.

Em: It’s funny. You know when sometimes TikTok, TikTok will show you videos like responses or stitches before the actual video?

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: I’ve gotten stitches, and I didn’t know what was actually going on, so I’ve just been kind of waiting. But I’ll look it up immediately after this.

Morgan: Yes, imme- Yes. And I’ll also send it to you just to remind you to look it up immediately.

Em: Yes! Yes, thank you.

Morgan: So that is my deep dive on the Hat Man, but I don’t know where we are at on time right now.

Em: We’re good.

Morgan: Um, I have one of our listener stories that involves Hat Man, and I thought that–

Em: Ooh!

Morgan: –maybe this one would be perfect for today because it’s actually a mutual listener of Creeps and Crimes and And That’s Why We Drink.

Em: [gasps] Fun!

Morgan: And it also gives some insight– Or she gives some insight on how to– how hearing traumatic and dark things– how to heal after hearing traumatic and dark things–

Em: Mm.

Morgan: –which I think is probably something really good for your listeners, my listeners–

Em: We could–

Morgan: –since they tune in to us every week.

Em: We could use it. Yeah.

Morgan: Okay. Yeah? Read it?

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Okay. “Hey besties! My name is Cori, she/her pronouns. Yes, you can use my name. I have been working my way through the backlog after hearing the spooky anthology from And That’s Why We Drink in October 2024. Yes, I–“ Which I– What is that? We’re–

Em: Hm?

Morgan: I don’t know. “Yes, I start–“ I was like I don’t think we recorded anything in 2024, but I guess we did.

Em: I don’t– We probably did. I– It’s– I don’t know anymore.

Morgan: Anyway. “Yes, I started at episode one (shrug). Y’all are super funny, and I even keep you playing while I’m falling asleep because the banter section is just enough to help with my ADHD brain letting go and relaxing so that I can fall asleep. I’m writing in because of creepy accounts episode 202,” from Creeps and Crimes, “and the therapist who wrote in about the dreams about her client and the need for boundaries. I can relate. I’ve been a therapist for almost ten years in community mental health. And I also have wild dreams, sleep paralysis, night terrors, and déjà vu since I was seven years old. So I suppose that Susan would likely say that I am ‘open.’”

Em: Mm.

Morgan: “Buckle up. I’m going to explain my own journey of creepy dreams and the mantra that I have to help manage my experiences. Before I was seven, I would fight anyone who told me that you have to dream to stay alive. I would literally close my eyes, and it was nothingness, and then I would wake up.” [chuckles] Ooh.

Em: Ooh. [chuckles]

Morgan: “At about seven–“ Cori, whoa.

Em: Yeah. We– Not my style.

Morgan: “At about seven, I had my two first vivid night terrors that I remember to this day, almost 30 years later.”

Em: Oh my god.

Morgan: “The first dream: I was in my early childhood home with my family, and I started to sense that vampires had started infiltrating my neighborhood, and no one was listening to me. Then I saw a hot sauce packet from Taco Bell in the kitchen with a smiley face with fangs. I knew that the evil vampires had infiltrated and shapeshifted to trick my family.”

Em: [laughs] What?

Morgan: “I woke up, screamed, and ran to my parents’ room as my dad opened the packet. I laid down with my parents and immediately fell into a dream where I was then at a zoo with dinosaurs, and I was standing in front of a cage with this huge T-Rex, while I slowly pulled my fingers off as if they were made of clay–“

Em: Wha–?

Morgan: “–and fed them to the dinosaur while sobbing hysterically.”

Em: Can you imagine having never dreamed, and now you’re pulling your own fingers off? [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs] Feeding it to a dinosaur–

Em: I’d be like, “What the fuck?”

Morgan: –and Taco Bell vampires?

Em: I’d be like, “I’m never dreaming again. I was totally right to not do this.”

Morgan: And imagine going to Taco Bell like the next week with your dad?

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: And you’re like, “Don’t get the hot sauce. Don’t get the hot sauce.”

Em: “Don’t– Don’t touch it.”

Morgan: And Dad’s like, “I’ll take two, uh, Diablos.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: It’s fucked up. I would be so panicked.

Em: I would too.

Morgan: “When I was nine, I had a dream that there was a man without a face standing in an unfamiliar classroom. He wore an intricately patterned red sweater vest, and he was clearly upset, and he slapped a large yardstick against the desk as he spoke. Three years later, that dream occurred in the form of my 6th grade teacher. Same outfit, same classroom setting, everything–“ Oh… I don’t know that word. Coal– Coaless–

Em: “Colless”?

Morgan: C-O-A-L-E-S-C-E-D.

Em: Girl, do it slower. What are you talking about?

Morgan: C-O-A-L. Coal. E–

Em: Coalesce.

Morgan: Coalesce. What’s that mean?

Em: Yeah. Okay. [laughs] That’s too– Too many questions.

Morgan: I don’t know either. [laughs] Whoa, whoa.

Em: Too many questions.

Morgan: Okay. Everything– Edit that out.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: “Everything coalesced, and suddenly I had the face for the guy in my dream. I was chronically tired, struggled with insomnia, and had a s– few–“ Or “had– and had a slew of tests as a kid because of my issues with sleep. I would sleep walk. I would sleep talk. My brothers would try to investigate this if I was ever half asleep on the couch because they thought it was so funny. Most of it was harmless, random déjà vu, and I often didn’t recall my dreams in my adolescence. I did still struggle to go to sleep on time and wake up on time. But I always chalked it up to ADHD and being a teenager. My dad died when I was 19 due to a ruptured aneurysm. He could have saved– He could have been saved if the doctor had followed protocol with dual blood pressure cuffs, as the aneurysm was leaking quite slowly all day. But without intervention, it did rupture about 12 hours into the day, and he was gone.” I am so sorry for your loss.

Em: Mm.

Morgan: “After he passed, I had ongoing, worsening insomnia (duh). This is where the sle–“ Uh, Cori said “duh,” not me. “This is where the s–“

Em: Oh, I thought it. I was like, “Yeah.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: “This is where the sleep paralysis started. For a long time, it was mostly fine. I would have lucid dreams where I was aware of the sleep paralysis. Like I’m ‘talking’ in the dream, then suddenly I’m aware that my mouth isn’t moving, and the dream becomes far more ominous as I fight to be able to actually move my body. In grad school, I started to see the Hat Man during sleep paralysis. I was under immense stress, in a new state, and I felt very alone in this time. Then one night, the Hat Man was inches from me, looming over me in this void-like shadow who looked like the silhouette of Dick Tracy, including the fedora and turned up collar on a trench coat."

Em: Wow.

Morgan: “This was unacceptable.” Okay, is it sad if I tell you I don’t know who Dick Tracy is?

Em: Yeah, he’s, he’s an old guy. [laughs] He’s an old guy.

Morgan: I bet if I saw him I knew. I’m just not good with names of celebrities.

Em: I, I don’t think you would. Um, he’s like–

Morgan: I’ll look him up.

Em: Yeah. I don’t even know how to des– to tell you what he, what he was in. I know he was in, um– What– The Dick Tracy show or some shit? Or am I thinking of, uh, Andy Griffith? Help me.

Morgan: Um, Dick Tracy.

Em: Where is he from? The Rocketeer. Oh, Who Framed Roger Rabbit.

Morgan: Oh, is he a comic character?

Em: No, he’s a person, I think. Now– Now I’m, now I’m scared.

Morgan: Well, who– Who’s this Warren Beatty Dick Tracy? [holds phone up with a movie poster for Dick Tracy the movie, wearing his signature fedora and trench coat and holding a vintage gun. “Warren Beatty” is written across the top.]

Em: Oh-ho! That’s a good question. I actually don’t know. Hm, let me see.

Morgan: This guy. [holds phone up with the Dick Tracy character in his signature yellow trench coat and matching fedora]

Em: “Dick Tracy is an ongoing American comic strip featuring Dick– “ Okay. Well, you were right. “–featuring Dick Tracy, a tough and intelligent police detective created by Chester Gould.” Okay, so I was mixing him up with Andy Griffith.

Morgan: Okay. But he is– There is actually like– He is a real actor as well. Well, not like– His name’s not that, but his character Dick Tracy is an, an actor and a detective. 1990.

Em: Interesting.

Morgan: Very interesting.

Em: Played by Warren Beatty, who is also an old man.

Morgan: Yes.

Em: So it’s just a, a lot of references that are making our parents feel bad right now. Um–

Morgan: Oh. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure.

Em: [laughs] Anyway–

Morgan: And Eva’s texting us on the side: “it means come together” for coalesce. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, hm. Whoops. All right. Well, and all the– By the way, I wonder how– You said her name’s Cori?

Morgan: Cori.

Em: I wonder how old Cori is if you’re having, um, your first sleep paralysis demon looks like Dick Tracy. It’s like what? Interesting.

Morgan: Well, they– I– She did say 30–

Em: ’Cause that would– Hm.

Morgan: –30 years later. And then, um, this was submitted, I think, in 2024. So I guess–

Em: Hm. Maybe she just likes the oldies, the golden era.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Nice.

Morgan: Okay, so Cori sees Dick Tracy, including the fedora and turned up collar in a trench coat. And “this was unacceptable. I felt my heart rate shoot up, and I reached next to me, and I threw my shelf.” Her entire shelf. “I woke up because the cup of water I had on the nightstand splashed into my face, and then I had to figure out how to proceed with the lamp, and my glasses were on the floor, in the dark.”

Em: Mm.

Morgan: “This was the first time that I had the Hat Man come this close, but it wouldn’t be the last. It also wasn’t the last time that I chucked my nightstand over to get him to go.” Oh my god.

Em: Oh my god.

Morgan: She’s got like–

Em: That’s like such a– [chuckles]

Morgan: [chuckles] –super strength.

Em: Like he's not just hovering in the corner. This is like so violent. What are you talking about?

Morgan: Cori, Cori is actually fighting the Hat Man.

Em: [laughs] Like lit– Like fighting demons, literally fighting demons.

Morgan: “Ev–“ This is interesting. “Even if I was wearing a sleep mask, I felt that I could ‘see’ the Hat Man or other events occurring in my half-waking state.”

Em: This is Zak Bagans’s wet dream.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Like being able to like f– actually fight someone from the other realm.

Morgan: Yeah. Well, he needs to reach out to Cori, I guess.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Maybe don’t, don’t do that. Cori, don’t answer him.

Em: Don’t answer.

Morgan: “Somewhere along this whole timeline in the last 17 years, I was also vi– visited by my dad twice. My dad was a big, goofy bear of a man. He was a jokester and a prankster, which was often a surprise because he was so quiet and reserved in public settings. I remember being in a haunted house as a child and begging the ‘monster’ at the top of the slide not to scare me, and he glanced up at my dad be-behind me, gulped, and agreed. But at home or with friends, my dad would vamp like the most flamboyant gay man, wrap ribbons around his head, and make the worst dad jokes when I determined to be in a bad mood. In the first dream, he came to me and said, ‘Dad, what are you doing here? You died.’” Oh, sorry. “I said, ‘Dad, what are you doing here? You died.’ And he told me this long, elaborate story about how he was secretly in the CIA and had really just faked the whole thing.”

Em: What?

Morgan: I– In a dream.

Em: Alright. For sure.

Morgan: “The next time, I dreamed that he came and explained that the whole thing was a prank and that he had actually moved somewhere else in the world and I needed to go find him. He had his typical sparkle in his eye during both of these dreams, and I knew that he was trying to reassure me. In the dreams, I felt immense relief that my dad was still out there, and it was bittersweet to wake up to the same reality where he was gone.”

Em: Mm.

Morgan: “I also have random night terrors that don’t make a lot of sense. One of the most vivid ones: I was in a dark hallway, and there was a wide opening leading into an open air space. It was a tall, arched opening where I could see a large, extraordinarily bright moon and a balcony surrounded by a low railing. In front of me, I see the back of a woman in a satin nightgown booking it towards that opening. I woke up screaming, ‘No!’ I still don’t know why that came up. When this happens, it takes a long time for my heart rate to get back to normal, even once I wake up all the way and I know it was in my dream.” ‘kay. “So— back to the therapist in 202. People often ask me how I’m able to listen to the worst horrors of human experience– or existence, day in and day out. I specialize in trauma work, and this was the basis of my undergraduate and graduate work. And I run comprehensive dialectical behavioral therapy programs, which treats people with borderline personality disorder (intense folks who have been through a lot and are often – trigger warning – suicidal or self-harming)–“

Em: Mm.

Morgan: “–as well as having specialty training in CBT– CBT for psychosis. The thing I usually tell people when they note how intense, difficult, and traumatic all of this must be is that I am a filter, not a reservoir. I do not take on anything that someone gives me as my own. And my job is to hold people and their experiences for the time I am with them, but I always have to give it back to them before they leave.” I love that for any therapist out there.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: “All of this long-winded way to say that while I am a skeptic, a scientist, and ag– agnostic, I do believe in the law of conservation of energy, which states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed, only transformed from one form to another.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: “When we really boil it down, we are energy wrapped in meat and bones. So it stands to reason that our energy exchanges with one another in a given moment during life, as well in our– as in our death. I hope my little mantra might help someone who wa– needs a way to concepu– conceptualize a boundary but maybe wants to remain somewhat open. I feel the urge to apologize for the length of this, but instead, I’m gonna attach some pics of my cantankerous old-lady-doggos, Nyx and Daria for tax.”

Em: Love it.

Morgan: [laughs] “I hope y’all have a wonderful day, and even if this isn’t read on the pod, I appreciate the chance to write it all out. – Cori.”

Em: Thank you, Cori.

Morgan: And that– Thank you, Cori. I think I actually read Cori’s story in like February of, of last year, um, on our–

Em: [chuckles]

Morgan: –on our feed, but I just thought it was– would be good since all of our spooky stories that are gonna be coming in through–

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: –October.

Em: Oh my gosh. Um–

Morgan: I hate that you dream like this, Cori, actually. Just, just real quick. Like that– You have the craziest dreams. [chuckles]

Em: I fear her power. I’m like [chuckles] she’s– “How is she able to do some of these things?”

Morgan: “How is she able to h– fight the Hat Man?” is my question.

Em: Like Cori, a Blumhouse production behind you like or ahead of you, I guess. [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Like you’re about to be in a feature film. Like that’s crazy. Um–

Morgan: Oh, I love that.

Em: That’s wild. I– I’m glad I can’t do that, but I also sympathize with your, with your plight.

Morgan: Yes, me as well.

Em: How often do you see, um, The Hat Man or have sleep paralysis in general? Is it, is it a lot for you? ’Cause some people have it like weekly.

Morgan: So I used to have it a lot more as a kid or even like young adulthood, but I feel like I don’t have it as much or it’s just not as intense. But I will say that when I talk about it, I usually have it like after.

Em: Ooh! Well, you’re very brave. Thank you for– You’re such a soldier. Um–

Morgan: Yes. And so I hope I never see Hat Man.

Em: [chuckles]

Morgan: But I also am like allergic to the world. I like to joke about I got chronic urticaria or something. I hive up over everything. Allergic to the dog, allergic to this microphone, allergic to you.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: And– [laughs] And so I do take Benadryl a lot, and so now that I made this connection, I’m gonna have to switch to Claritin or something. [laughs]

Em: You know what? It’s funny, and this is why I, I know that– why Benadryl hasn’t really leaned into like this is their PR for obvious reasons, but, uh, just another reason to tack on is I recently was told to start–

[Ollie, Morgan’s Golden Retriever, appears on camera, climbing up with his front paws for pets from Morgan]

Em: Oh! [high-pitched voice] It’s baby.

Morgan: Hi. What can I do for you? [laughs]

Em: Awww. Can he, can– Can we hear him “lem” through the mic? Little “lemmy”.

[Morgan holds the mic up for Ollie. He touches it with his nose before reaching up to lick at Morgan’s face instead.]

Morgan: Okay.

Em: It’s a “wittle” baby.

Morgan: He’s just staring at me with these pitiful eyes. Look at Em, over here. [points towards the camera] Oh, he’s– [unintelligible]

Em: I like, um, his green collar. You never see green collars on dogs.

Morgan: I know. He’s usually an orange kinda guy but switched to green when he got sprayed by the skunk. So.

Em: Mm. You– We have to talk about that off-air because that just happened to Hank.

Morgan: No!

Em: It was hell on wheels. It was awful.

Morgan: Did I manifest it?

Em: It was awful. It was awful. Um, we’re still recovering. Every time I sit in one part of the couch, when I sit down, the air comes up, and I just– I get hit with skunk again. And he’s terr–

Morgan: Oh, pray that it never rains because when it rains, [makes face, pushing away with her hand].

Em: I was gonna say. I– He’s terrified of water. So the bath that we gave him, it was like I was stabbing him in the eyes. It was like the– He couldn’t have ex– He couldn’t have had a worse day in his life. Just the bath part, not even the skunk part. [groans]

Morgan: I gave Ollie like 5,000 baths, and it’s still there.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Like right ar– Where was he? Where was Hank’s face? Like right in the ass.

Em: Oh, oh, yeah. He was like giving it the ol’ s-sniff in the butt to get to know you. It was point blank range. Um–

Morgan: Yeah. Yep.

Em: Yeah, it was awful. It was awful.

Morgan: Terrible time.

Em: That was one of the times I heard him crying, and I didn’t know what to do. And I was like, “Do I take him to the hospital?” I was like, “What would they do? What would they do?” Um.

Morgan: [laughs] Be like, “Here’s some tomato juice.”

Em: [laughs] No, I did find out– Did, did you find out what the secret, um, formula is to getting rid of the smell?

Morgan: Peroxide baking soda paste?

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Morgan: Yeah, so I did that, but did you read–?

Em: Uh-oh.

Morgan: So first it’s like, “Rinse out eyes immediately. Can cause blindness.” So I’m like [mimes spraying water into Ollie's eyes] you know, with the hose on his eyeballs.

Em: [laughs] [makes spitting noise] Get it out. Yeah.

Morgan: And then it’s like, um, “Use this paste, but don’t get them wet first. Put the paste on dry.”

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: And I’m like, “I just– You just told me to rinse his eyes off. Now I’ve soaked in those oils.”

Em: No. [laughs]

Morgan: So I fucked up.

Em: I literally just took like wet paper towels and just tried to place them on his eyes, which he actually let happen, so it must have felt good. But also it was like oil and water. I must have been making it worse. I don’t think I was actually doing anything.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Um, but no, I like– I– ’Cause he’s scared of water, so it didn’t even occur to me should he be wet or dry. I just took handfuls of this like paste and just started like scrubbing it into his body. Um–

Morgan: Oh, that sucks so bad. I, I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.

Em: Me either. And it happened at 3 in the morning. So–

Morgan: Oh, of course it did.

Em: Until like 9 in the morning, I was up trying to clean everything. It was– I mean, he got it on–

Morgan: I didn’t even know skunks were in California.

Em: Oh, we live next to a massive nest of skunks. They’re everywhere. They’re everywhere.

Morgan: Oh, that sucks so bad.

Em: Um, I know. Anyway.

Morgan: Maybe, maybe boarding got it out of him.

Em: [laughs] Yeah, maybe. Ooh god, I– It was just a– That was horrible. That– Anyway, we could talk about that forever. Thank you for your Hat Man story.

Morgan: Thank you.

Em: Well done. And such a good idea. That’s very spooky. Um, I–

Morgan: ’Cause I feel like I always am like referencing him. I’m like, “Oh, you probably– Maybe you saw Hat Man,” like if I ever get like a listener story with sleep paralysis. I’ve never actually like looked into Hat Man, you know?

Em: I’ve never– ’Cause I always thought he was just part of like the, the umbrella of sleep paralysis demons–

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and I was like, “Is there enough to even talk about?” But I truly had no idea that he didn’t even become a thing until like 2001 and then really got his– had his moment. He was a TikToker basically.

Morgan: He’s a– Yeah, he blew up with Charli D’Amelio.

Em: [laughs] He’s a– just an influencer.

Morgan: He was right there at the top. Bella Poarch, Charli D’Amelio, and Addison Rae, and Hat Man right there next to them. He was in– He was in Hype House actually.

Em: Who’s it– Is it Addison Rae? Wasn’t she like the first official TikToker or something? Or–

Morgan: I, I don’t– She was one of the big ones like whenever–

Em: I’m offi–

Morgan: Probably ’cause they were Musical.ly girls.

Em: I’m “officically”– officially claiming, uh, Hat Man as my first TikToker. Um–

Morgan: Yes.

Em: So well done. And a very, very good idea.

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Em: Alright, I have a story for you as well, and it is also catered, um, I like to think, to you and I. So I didn’t really know where to start, but I wanted it to be a good one. Um, just, you know, I wanted to be a good host, make sure that I don’t waste your time.

Morgan: [chuckles]

Em: And so, I was like, “Well, I’m just gonna look up haunted places and see if the name Morgan even pops up.”

Morgan: Oh, shut up. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] And so, um, jump scare because we’re about to say my deadname here, but I literally found a place that was meant for us. It is called the Emily Morgan Hotel.

Morgan: What the fuck? [laughs]

Em: [laughs] I know. And so I was like, “That has to be the one.” So–

Morgan: So we were there in a past life. Got it.

Em: Literally like we at least high-fived in the lobby. So the Emily Morgan Hotel is near the Alamo in San Antonio, Texas. In fact, it’s literally across the street from the Alamo. So it calls itself “Alamo’s official hotel.” Um–

Morgan: Oh, very bold.

Em: I know. [laughs] Like– Well, I guess no one’s competing for that. So sure. So, right off the bat, it’s likely to be haunted because it’s so close to where– I think it was 600 soldiers that died there. But on top of that, before it was a hotel, it was a hospital.

Morgan: [scoffs] Course.

Em: Um, and it– Of cour– Yeah. What could be worse? Except like a cemetery. So it was built–

Morgan: An asylum.

Em: Asylum. I think that’s the worst one. [laughs]

Morgan: Yes. Yeah, I think so too.

Em: Or prison. All of them.

Morgan: Or prison. Yeah, back in the day, those were crazy.

Em: A– Are you Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania or Philly, Pennsylvania? Pittsburgh?

Morgan: Pittsburgh.

Em: Okay, never mind. I was gonna say I was just in Philly, and I went to Eastern State and, um, did a tour there. But it’s as–

Morgan: You ever covered that one?

Em: That was like episode like eight or something. It was a long time ago.

Morgan: It was pretty crazy.

Em: Have you been there?

Morgan: Mm-mmm.

Em: It was super creepy.

Morgan: No, I’ve done the– I’ve been to the, uh, Trans-Allegheny Lunatic–

Em: Mm!

Morgan: They do–

Em: How was that?

Morgan: Terrifying. They do this, um, haunted house situation like– I don’t know if they still do it, but they did when I was in high school. And they like take you through first of like an actual like ghost tour–

Em: Mm.

Morgan: –and then they do like the theatrics, like the Hollywood theatrics of the rest of the place. And you got in a coffin, and you rode the coffin down in a–

Em: Huh?

Morgan: –on a roller coaster.

Em: Girl, that’s not true.

Morgan: Like a little– It’s like a little, little trail track that you’re on.

Em: So you’re– Are you– You’re horizontal in a roller coaster in a coffin?

Morgan: In a coffin.

Em: That’s fucking crazy.

Morgan: And they like stop you halfway through and like open it, and they’re like, “Aaahhh!” [screams] like in your face.

Em: I have to do it. [laughs]

Morgan: It was honestly the scariest haunted house I’ve ever been to in my life.

Em: I– That is new. That’s certainly an original take on a jump scare [laughs].

Morgan: For sure.

Em: Because usually you’re just walking around. But I mean, get in a coffin, and also, we’re going to scream at you. I–

Morgan: Like and they should have tied our hands down ’cause I bet people are like [punches air], you know, like immediately.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: ’Cause they’re like right there in your face. It was–

Em: That’s, um– So wait, wait, ho– I’m sorry. So you’re in a coffin, and they literally close the door. So you’re also just in a box.

Morgan: Yes.

Em: So you get to–

Morgan: And now, it’s only like 30 seconds, and it’s like really like slow, you know.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: But like you are on some like some sort of roller coaster track, I guess.

Em: But someone has like a, a specific fear of like being buried alive or something and gets to experience that.

Morgan: Yeah, and you know that, that actually must be really common like in the– that area, Wheeling or wherever that is, West Virginia, Ohio area, because there was another haunted house like nearby that we went to. And it was put on by the fire department, and it was like supposed to be like one of the craziest scary– top ten, you know, haunted houses in the country. And they also did the coffin thing, but you got to s–

Em: What the hell is going on?

Morgan: It was like a bigger coffin, and you went in there with a– It was like a duo coffin, and you went in there with a partner.

Em: [laughs] I, I like that you at least get to like not be alone.

Morgan: And it like drops you forward.

Em: Oh, props you forward.

Morgan: Yeah. Yeah, it like acts like it’s gonna suffocate you, and then it like– that lifts up, and you like fall forward.

Em: I–

Morgan: I don’t know what is in the haunted houses in that area, but–

Em: [laughs] That’s crazy. I’ve never– I guess I really haven’t been to any actual scary jump scare attractions if people are just choosing to get in coffins. [laughs] I’ve never done that.

Morgan: Yeah, no, those were, those were always terrifying. And I was always like, you know, too cool ’cause I, I would go with my now-husband, Aaron, because we were dating in high school. You know, I’d always be like, “I’m not scared. Like this doesn’t scare me.” And I would be like the loud mouth like of the group like to the, um, actors, and I’d be like, “You’re not even scary.” I’d be like, “I’m gonna pee my pa–” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] What an asshole.

Morgan: Like trying to be so tough.

Em: I– A lot of times I’ll point to Allison, and I’m like, “Get her,” ’cause she’s the one that gets more scared. Um, but then I realize it’s actually a great tool in case I really do get scared. It makes it look like I’m trying to give her the better experience while they leave me alone.

Morgan: “Get her! Get her!”

Em: Um, thank you for telling me about that so I never go. Um, appreciate that.

Morgan: Yes. Well, I would be the one with that red thing at Hollywood Horror Nights. The–

Em: Oh, the necklaces. The blue necklaces.

Morgan: The immunity necklaces. [laughs]

Em: Yeah. There– For people who don’t know at, at, uh, Universal, they offer out, uh, blue necklaces that glow all night as a signal to the scare actors to not approach you ’cause either you’re too scary to them; they’re overwhelmed; maybe they are– they get overstimulated quickly. Um, and a lot of people just buy them ’cause they’re like, “Don’t fucking come near me.” Um, I get it.

Morgan: That would be me.

Em: I get it.

Morgan: I would probably be wearing that.

Em: Speaking of wearing red things, I wanted to let you know I did wear the Shorty’s shirt for you today.

Morgan: I saw it. I saw it. I should have got mine.

Em: That’s okay. I, I saw it in the clean laundry, and I went, “Well, that’s– I’m gonna put that on.”

Morgan: That’s fitting. I love it.

Em: Okay. Anyway, sorry. We were at the Emily Morgan Hotel. It was originally a hospital, and it was built in 1924. At the time, it was one of the best medical facilities west of the Mississippi. Although, when we’re talking about the 1920s, how advanced can it be? Um–

Morgan: Right.

Em: –given, you know, a hundred years later. And at 13 stories high, or 205 feet tall, it was also the tallest skyscraper in the West. So it was tallest skyscraper and the most advanced medical facility.

Morgan: Wow.

Em: Um, the hospital was called the Medical Arts Building, and it could hold over a hundred doctors’ offices. And these doctors’ offices could be doctors, dentists, surgeons, lobotomists–

Morgan: Course.

Em: –um, mental health people. Again, in the 1920s, I don’t really know what they were up to, but, um, they were there.

Morgan: It's actually a huge facility for it not to be an asylum and instead to be a hospital, you know, ’cause I feel like it was the asylums that were very large then.

Em: I feel like that’s a great point. I feel like, um, if they only focused on mental health, it would have been an asylum, but this place was mainly a true doctor, surgery– It was definitely more towards like physically– I don’t know, physical recovery. Um, the facility also had a crematorium, of course.

Morgan: Of course.

Em: And in the basement, they had a morgue. Woo-hoo. Um, I hate when there are buildings like this that exist and someone goes, “You know, we should turn this into a place where everyone goes to sleep.” That’s like–

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: –worst idea. Um.

Morgan: You know, at my job, we used to have to check the morgue on the weekends.

Em: Sorry, what are you talking about?

Morgan: So we don’t do it anymore. It’s a different department. But when I first started, if you– we were like so many weekends off, so many weekends off, but if it was your weekend of work, you would have to go to the morgue and check the temperatures. So you would have to walk down at like 5 in the morning. Actually, we start at 5. Yes, 5 in the morning, and you would go into the morgue and then you would open up all f– I think there was only like four or five in our hospital but to make sure– like to do one, a body count, if there were any, and to, two, check temperatures.

Em: [gasps] What was your job?

Morgan: I still work there. Um–

Em: What is your job?

Morgan: –in the laboratory. A laboratory assistant.

Em: Okay, that makes sense. I did not totally know what was going on there. I was like– So you still do this? Do you still have to check the morgue sometimes?

Morgan: We do not anymore.

Em: You said, you said that. I just got excited.

Morgan: Yeah, they, they changed–

Em: Um, when did you stop?

Morgan: I don’t know. I mean, it probably– They had been doing it forever, but maybe like six months after I started. But I would have to do it, and I was always scared half to death.

Em: That’s wild to me. You are braver than I. I mean, I’ve been in morgues, but, uh, never to like literally have to check bodies, count bodies. Um–

Morgan: Yeah, and then write it on a little tally sheet. Yeah.

Em: That’s very cool. Was–

Morgan: It was scary.

Em: Did you like it or were you like, “I don’t want to be part of this”?

Morgan: No, I dreaded it. I dreaded– I–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Well, I didn’t like going in there in the mornings. All alone?

Em: All alone is–

Morgan: You know, a hospital on the weekend is like a liminal space. Like it’s like back room vibe.

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Morgan: It’s like the half the lights are on down there and like– or on that floor and just not– It’s empty.

Em: Yeah. Um, how many morgues have I been in? The last one, Eva can attest, it was very creepy, but it was also abandoned, so it was kind of expected to be a liminal space. But I, I guess a morgue is particularly creepy because even when it’s active, it’s still surgical, which feels like a liminal space. So no matter what, it’s uncomfortable.

Morgan: Mhm. Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Don’t like it. Not a fan.

Em: Well, this place had one in the basement. Um, and here’s a creepy rumor. Apparently, the now hotel has a pool. And apparently, the pool is allegedly built out of the old hospital’s operating tables.

Morgan: What?

Em: Upcycling. We love that.

Morgan: How?

Em: But also– A-apparently, it’s stainless steel. And so, the rumor is that they just flattened out all the beds and just turned it into like part of the pool. Um–

Morgan: I hate that if that is true. I don’t like that.

Em: If it’s true, I– We don’t know. I think–

Morgan: I mean, I love for the environment.

Em: Woo-hoo. Yeah, reusing materials.

Morgan: Yes.

Em: Um, but it’s– And how innovative if it’s true. I honestly very much doubt it’s true. I think it’s just a rumor to like perpetuate how haunted and creepy this place is.

Morgan: For sure.

Em: And it used to be a hospital. I’m sure you can look at any stainless steel and go, “That used to be operating equipment.” But yeah, if it’s true, the last thing I want to do is wade in water that’s touching that because I feel like the energy is still on it, you know? Um–

Morgan: Oh, yeah. No, I wouldn’t like that. That is like– That’s the kind of pool where you definitely feel like you’re going to see a great white shark–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: –but like instead it’s like someone grabbing your ankles, you know?

Em: It’s like if you get– go underwater–

Morgan: Irrational fear.

Em: –like there’s like a, like a, a full human body just staring at you, you know?

Morgan: Yeah, I just feel like there’s like hands coming from it, just like waiting to grab.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: And I don’t like that at all. At all.

Em: Something horrific. Um, what was the other fun fact I had for you? Oh, when the architects were building this place as a hospital– right? That was what it originally was. When the architects were designing it, they put in gargoyles, uh, all around the front of the building because it was supposed to be this Gothic style hospital. So they put in these gargoyles. Technically, they’re grotesques. Do you know the difference between gargoyles and grotesques?

Morgan: Nope.

Em: Okay, they look the same, but fun fact, grotesques are purely decorative. And gargoyles actually have a purpose, which is that the way that they are always rounded and facing outwards, they’re actually a functional use to keep rain from falling towards the center of the building.

Morgan: Oh?

Em: So it keeps you from getting hit with a bunch or– all the– They’re basically like a, like a– It’s like a rain spout or something.

Morgan: Oh, okay. So, this one though, it had the grotesques.

Em: They were technically grotesque. They were purely decorative, but they designed them to make each of the gargoyles look like they had a different medical ailment since it was a hospital. So it’s like a gargoyle like with a toothache and a gargoyle with like its eye poked out and a gargoyle with like a tummy ache and a gargoyle with a headache. I was like, “This is very cute.”

Morgan: I kinda– I kinda love that. I kind of love that.

Em: I do too. Especially in the ‘20s, I was like– [sighs] I love to know– I’ve said this before to Christine and on the show, but when you see old-timey pictures, like they were just posing. Like you, like you never really see like how fun they could have been back then. It’s nice to know in the ‘20s people had a sense of humor.

Morgan: Yeah, and a little creativity.

Em: I know. It was like, “Well, if I have to make another fucking gargoyle, at least let this one look as miserable as I do,” you know?

Morgan: Yes.

Em: Um, so anyway, it was a hospital until the ‘70s, and then the hospital closed. It was converted into office space, and in the ‘80s, it was remodeled into a hotel and renamed the Emily Morgan Hotel. So for the name, Emily Morgan, in 1835, there was a girl named Emily West, and she was an indentured servant to Colonel James Morgan. And I guess, at the time, it was common that while you were indentured to somebody you would take their last name. Yuck. But they were known as Emily Morgan then. Um–

Morgan: ‘kay. Look at us.

Em: And wha– Look at us.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: And while working for him, Colonel Morgan’s staff was captured by the Mexican troops during a raid on his home. So she got, um– She got captured. And while captured, this is when the Texans attacked the Mexican army and was able to defeat them in 18 minutes, and it gave them independence from Mexico. Um, but it’s said that they were able to win this battle in 18 minutes– They were able to win it so effectively and so quickly because the Mexican army’s general was preoccupied during this battle and unable to help because he was found in the tent with Emily Morgan. You have to hope whatever was going on was consensual. We have no record. Um, but in a very twisted way, whatever was going on kept him from being able to help his troops, and it ended up giving Texas their independence. Um–

Morgan: Sounded like Texas sent Emily Morgan to the tent.

Em: You know, that’s the story I would like to tell myself that they– she was actually on the inside all the time. That was totally her, her mission.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: So, let’s hope.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Um, regardless, because he was distracted, it allowed Texas to win independence. So they stuck with that as the name for the hotel. Um, so in 1984, it was built. It has since then been deemed an Historic Hotel of America, and in 2012 it was bought by DoubleTree. Um, which if you have ever been to DoubleTree, you know that when you check in, they give you cookies, so therefore, it is my favorite hotel. Um, and that’s all the–

Morgan: DoubleTree by–? What is it? DoubleTree by Hilton?

Em: Hilton. Yeah.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Um–

Morgan: Yes. I’ll never forget one time we were in, uh, South Carolina, and my mother was so– There’s something– She does not complain often. She is not a Karen, but there was something going on in our room. And she went down, and she was like, “I am not a happy Hilton camper.”

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: [laughs] And we got a new room. I think there was so– I don’t know what was wrong with it, but we always joke and say that phrase.

Em: “I-I’m not a happy Hilton camper.”

Morgan: DoubleTree by Hilton. Yeah.

Em: Uh, ghosts. Let’s see. Oh, yeah. Here’s all the haunts of this hotel.

Morgan: Oh, I can’t wait.

Em: The Emily Morgan Hotel has been listed in 2024’s Top 25 Most Haunted Hotels. And USA Today even called it the third most haunted hotel in the world.

Morgan: Wow.

Em: And somehow I’ve never covered this.

Morgan: Me neither.

Em: And yet it has both of our names. I mean, it was just very kismet, I think. Um, many websites told me that the 7th, 9th, 12th, and 14th floors are the most haunted, but it seems like every fucking floor is haunted. So, if you want to follow that, great. I don’t care to.

Morgan: 13th floor?

Em: There is no 13th floor.

Morgan: Okay.

Em: Have you heard of like some companies like refuse to put in a 13th floor ’cause it’s unlucky?

Morgan: Yes, but did you just say 7th, 9th, 10th, and 13th?

Em: Sorry. 7th, 9th, 12th, 14th.

Morgan: 12th, 14th. You probably said that.

Em: Which is technically–

Morgan: I was probably just hoping you were gonna say 13th, so I just assumed.

Em: [laughs] Well, I mean, the 14th is technically the 13th, and it is incredibly haunted, so we can leave it there.

Morgan: That tracks.

Em: And actually, fun fact, a lot of people who go to the 14th floor– Did you ever hear the horror movie 1408?

Morgan: No.

Em: So I think it was a Stephen King book originally and then became a movie. I only ever saw the movie, but it’s about this guy going into a hotel room 1408, and it’s said to be incredibly haunted, and it is. Spoiler alert. Um, and one of the reasons that 1408 is super creepy is because if you add it all up, it makes 13: one, four, eight.

Morgan: One, four, eight. One, three. 13. Yeah. [laughs]

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Sorry. Uh, and so anyway, that’s, that’s one of the reasons that it’s super haunted, but also it’s known because of that book and movie to be haunted. So a lot of people have gone to the 14th floor to find 1408, and they don’t have a room 1408.

Morgan: Well, what is the origin of the 13th floor? That– Is that the hotel game or the elevator game?

Em: No. Well, I actually, not to toot my own horn, we did a third– a number 13 episode a long time ago. I actually think it was a Halloween episode. Um, I don’t remember all of the origins, but there’s still a lot of superstition around that stuff. So like, um, a lot of skyscrapers don’t have a 13th floor. Planes don’t have a 13th row. Um, if you ever notice when you go on a plane now, they don’t have a 13th row.

Morgan: No, I never noticed.

Em: I don’t think any of them have a 13th row. Um, it’s just little things like that where it’s just still kind of part of the culture, which is weird.

Morgan: That is so, that is so strange.

Em: Yeah, especially ’cause a lot of people actually think 13 is a lucky number, so.

Morgan: Right.

Em: Anyway.

Morgan: Yeah. Huh.

Em: [sighs] Huh. So most–

Morgan: Every day is a school day.

Em: [laughs] Put that on a goddamn shirt. That’s brilliant. That’s beautiful.

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: Um, most of the ghosts here seem to be from the hospital days. A lot of times people will smell antiseptic, like, uh, like hospital smell.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, especially on the 14th floor/13th floor. Some will actually say that the roo– the whole floor still smells like a hospital. Whether or not you’re looking for a ghost, if you go up there just– you still get a whiff of like band-aids. Eugh.

Morgan: Ew.

Em: Um, I know.

Morgan: Of all things. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] S– One website actually did call it “band-aid smell,” and I was like that’s so specific. Um–

Morgan: It is so specific. It’s weird.

Em: People see, uh, a woman crying in the hallways. Uh, others see a woman in either a nurse’s uniform or a hospital gown walking down the hall–

Morgan: In white.

Em: So – well done –

Morgan: [laughs]

Em: –because she is called the woman in white. And, I swear to God, ev–

Morgan: I knew it.

Em: It’s almost like a scavenger hunt trying to find a hotel these days that doesn’t have a woman in white.

Morgan: I know. I know.

Em: But she’s there. She’s there.

Morgan: I love a woman in white. You know what? They–

Em: You know what?

Morgan: They do be haunting.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: They really do.

Em: I wonder if they’re all in their own little fucking book club or something, like, “Which one do you haunt?”

Morgan:That’s what I’m wondering.

Em: Like– Or do they each have like– Like I wonder if there’s e-ever any overlap. Is there a woman in white that haunts the whole Florida territory and gets all the–?

Morgan: Do we ever hear the woman in orange, the woman in green?

Em: Never. No, it’s–

Morgan: We do. I have, I have a woman in red–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –and the woman in black.

Em: Yeah, it’s really those three colors, and that’s it.

Morgan: Interesting.

Em: I would say it goes white, red, black. What about you?

Morgan: I think– I would– If I were to haunt, I would probably be the woman in green.

Em: N– All of them couldn’t love white that much. Like it– I wonder if white is just easier to appear as. ‘Cause someone’s gotta be different.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: I’m glad you would be green. I think I would be–

Morgan: Well–

Em: –if we’re going with just a solid color, I’d say purple, but we all know I’d want to be the ghost in tie-dye.

Morgan: Yeah, the ghost in tie-dye.

Em: Or glow in the dark. You kidding me?

Morgan: Shut up. Glow in the dark.

Em: I know.

Morgan: That would be awesome. I also think though too because– Like back then especially nurses’ uniforms, they were white. Nightgowns–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: –they were usually white. Um, other famous ghosts are usually brides or night before a wedding in a white gown.

Em: Yeah. Everything was white.

Morgan: So I feel like that also could be why.

Em: It’s true. I guess a lot of things were just kinda plain linen, and it was–

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: But that also makes me wonder about the whole, um, cultural background of why to– why you wear white at a wedding because it’s supposed to be pure. It’s like, “Aren’t you always wearing fucking white?”

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: “Seems like you’re– you’ve always been in white. Maybe finally wear a nice color on your wedding.” Anyway.

Morgan: Yeah, true.

Em: [chuckles] I don’t know. Call me crazy.

Morgan: Don’t make, don’t make me second guess my wedding dress. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: “She had a green one.”

Em: Anyway, the woman in white–

Morgan: That’ll be in my head all night.

Em: [laughs] The w– the woman in white is there. You nailed it. I didn’t even write “woman in white”, ’cause I was trying to avoid having to say it, but you were exactly right. Woman in white.

Morgan: It’s my favorite phrase.

Em: She’s always there, whether or not you want her to be. Um, in the area where the crematorium was, people apparently smell burning flesh. Yes.

Morgan: I hate that.

Em: Do you have any spooky things– I should have asked about being in th– in your morgue at work if you had anything creepy happen there?

Morgan: No. I mean, nothing in the morgue. I do remember one of my co-workers telling me that like this creepy story like the pathologist like walking down the hallway and hearing like footsteps behind. So like that was always in the back of my head, but like I don’t think that that was actually true. I think they were just trying to scare us all.

Em: [chuckles]

Morgan: But in the weekends, I do work, um, in one department– I’m not gonna, you know, name names just for– ’cause I always feel so unsafe there on the weekends. But, um, it’s like combined with two other departments. It’s like all one room, but I only use like one room out of it.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: So the rest of it – on a Saturday, they’re not open, so it’s all dark, right? The lights are off. Do you remember that trend like maybe a couple years ago now where you would take pictures and it would like scan it on TikTok?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: It was like a TikTok filter.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: You know? And it would scan it, and it would be like a, a figure there, like show an outline of a person. And so I did that around there. I got a bunch of shit. Right? And then that same day, I was in the bathroom, and the paper towels are like the motion sensor, you know?

Em: [sighs] Okay.

Morgan: Like the LED.

Em: Sure.

Morgan: And I’m just sitting on the toilet, and I hear [mimics the sound of a motor spinning to roll out paper towels], and it’s just like– And it won’t stop. [chuckles] It wasn’t stopping.

Em: Oh my god.

Morgan: And so I got up, and I like put my hand over it, and it stopped. But that’s really it. I don’t really feel like bad vibes in the hospital per se. I don’t think it’s old enough of a hospital to–

Em: Sure.

Morgan: –you know. It’s probably only 10, 15 years old. Maybe 20.

Em: Yeah, a hospital can’t– I-in my mind, it can’t be haunted until it’s hit like at least 40 years–

Morgan: 50, 40.

Em: Yeah.

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Something like that. Um, I, I– Who knows if that’s true? But in my brain, I’m like, “Oh, 30-year-old hospital? Whatever.”

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, anyway, here’s a horrible quote for you. “Guests have reported opening the doors to the hallways only to find a scene from a hospital waiting right inside.” So they look out their own door into the hallway, and they see–

Morgan: Staff.

Em: Like they like time slip into when it was a hospital.

Morgan: That’s crazy.

Em: When they close their door and open it again, they see their normal hallway as if nothing ever happened. In the bedrooms, the radio clocks will switch through different radio stations and then randomly stop once you mention the radio switching stations. There was one guy who actually called the front desk to be like, “The radio won’t stop moving.” And then it stopped l– and was playing some creepy ass music, I’m sure. You’ll hear someone running past–

Morgan: It’s kinda like a EMF reader, right? Isn’t that what they– Or the sound boxes that s-s-scan through–

Em: Uh, spirit box.

Morgan: Spirit boxes that scan through.

Em: Actually, it’s like– It’s kind of funny. It sounds like the ghost was trying to make its own spirit box [laughs]–

Morgan: Mm-hmm, yeah.

Em: –and be like, “I’ll fucking do it since you’re not going to.” Um, you’ll hear people running past your room, uh, but there’s no one ever in the hallway when you check. There was actually one guy who wrote in his personal experience saying that he kept hearing someone run by the door, run by the door, run by the door. And he would open the door; nobody was there. He closed the door and hear it again, hear it again. He would open the door, and eventually, every time he would open the door to look out the hall, everyone else was also opening their door and looking out the hall ’cause they were all hearing the same thing as if it was happening right at their door.

Morgan: Ew, I hate that too. I hate that.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I would be up and out of there so quick. I couldn’t stay the night.

Em: Yeah. Why? Why–? I-I’ll tell you, as Eva can attest to, we were at the Queen Mary for like four hours and fucking left. ’Cause as soon as it got weird in there, I was like, “This is not worth it. We’re– It’s time to go.” [laughs]

Morgan: Yeah. Taylar–

Em: It’s not worth it.

Morgan: Taylar and I ghost haunted– ghost hunted one hotel out in San Diego, and we purposely booked a room at a Marriott be– just–

Em: That’s so smart.

Morgan: –just to not say where we just ghost hunted at.

Em: So smart.

Morgan: Yes.

Em: Um–

Morgan: Terrifying.

Em: People feel something brushing up against them in their rooms. Sometimes they even feel someone sitting on the bed with them. They have felt people crawling up next to them. Uh, probably my least favorite story here is that one woman woke up to the sounds of humming in the middle of the night and saw a little girl sitting on her bed humming, turned to her, and then asked if she would like to sing with her.

Morgan: Ew.

Em: And then somehow this woman stayed there, went back to sleep, and then stayed another night. And the following night, knowing that something had just happened the previous night, she gets into bed and feels something crawl into bed with her and lean up against her like they’re spooning. Appari–

Morgan: So she’s like, “Sure, honey, but tomorrow.”

Em: [laughs] Yeah. [doing vocal warmup arpeggio] ♪ Me, me, me, me, me, me. ♪♪ Yeah. I would be–

Morgan: [humming vocal warmup arpeggio]

Em: I’d be singing– Like what would I sing? [singing “Leave (Get Out)” by JoJo] ♪ Get out. Leave. Right now. ♪♪ [speaking] I don’t know. Something that says, “I’m singing–“

Morgan: I’d be like this, [singing tensely] ♪ This little light of mine. ♪

Em: [laughs] I’d just be singing like a, like a–

Morgan: ♪ I’m gonna make it shine. ♪♪

Em: –like a Christian hymn or something. It’s like, “I believe in Jesus!”

Morgan: [laughs] [humming “This Little Light of Mine”]

Em: [laughs] So, apparitions are re– uh, seen in reflections of the mirrors at all times– uh, all sorts of times. Objects will move or completely go missing. One time, a guest watched a wine bottle slide off the table. Um, it– Someone also heard, and I’m assuming also saw this at some point, uh, the toilet seat in their bathroom slamming up and down, up and down, up and down in the bathroom.

Morgan: Germs.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: I hate that.

Em: My thought is like, “Now– What if I have to drop trou and sit on that toilet that’s obviously capable of moving around,” you know.

Morgan: A-and then you’re now going like [mimics up and down motion] [laughs].

Em: [laughs] it’s like a ride.

Morgan: You’re on a ride, yeah. Wait, no. I was thinking of the germs is just splashing around the air. That’s disgusting.

Em: That’s a great point. Um, housekeepers will clean a room, and then when they turn around, they’ll see that the bedding has tossed its– tossed itself onto the floor. Lights–

Morgan: I’d be so pissed.

Em: I would be pi– I’d be like, “I need double tips at this point.”

Morgan: Yeah.

Em: Um, lights will turn on and off by themselves. Doors will open and close by themselves. The thermostat will play tricks on guests. Shadows will dart by all over the hotel. And electronics will malfunction and only work again once the ghosts have acknowledged them. So an example of that is, uh, one time someone was trying to plug in (I’m assuming their phone or something), and it wouldn’t work until they mentioned the ghost. All of a sudden, their phone started charging. It– So it’s like it wants attention in some way. Another time a guest had their own electronics malfunctioning and then saw a dark shadow float through their room and into the wall. Um, people will see impressions on the bed like someone is sitting there, and they’ll feel someone touch their shoulders and their hair.

Morgan: Eugh.

Em: And one guest even reported feeling something grab its legs and try to yank him off the bed.

Morgan: Mm, no. Nope.

Em: You can touch the toilet seat all you want. Don’t fucking touch me.

Morgan: Don’t– A-and not my legs. That’s like our biggest fear as children–

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: –is a little foot hanging out of the covers and getting drug out of the bed.

Em: You, you know what I hate more than the thought of my foot getting yanked out from under the bed though? Is a little tickle on the bottom of my foot. [laughs] That would rock my shit. That would– Like–

Morgan: [laughs] No, that’s disgust– I hate that. Ollie–

Em: Every time– Every time my foot is sticking out from the bed, I never think about it getting yanked. I always think about someone going over and tickling it, and I hate it. I hate it. [laughs]

Morgan: Yeah, I don’t like feet tickles either.

Em: No.

Morgan: Ollie gets– Like he’ll start digging at the covers. He has to get up under the covers and sleep underneath.

Em: Uh-huh, of course.

Morgan: And then in the middle of the night, he gets up, and he walks and goes off the bed. But when he walks, he takes all of the covers with him.

Em: [laughs] So then you’re all by yourself.

Morgan: So then for like a split second, we’re exposed in the middle of the night.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: It is terrifying. And I always think of that, that someone’s gonna yank me out.

Em: How do you– Before he walks away with it, do you grab it last minute? Do your toes grab it? [laughs] To yank it back?

Morgan: No. I mean, I try to grab like– I’ll usually wake up from my sleep– or maybe I just do it like subconsciously now to where I can like try to hold it up–

Em: Sure.

Morgan: –but it’s always all fucked up. So our feet are always hanging off the bed, exposed.

Em: Ugh. The worst.

Morgan: And I hate that. I hate that.

Em: I’m telling you, tonight–

Morgan: I also–

Em: –tonight, you’re gonna think about just a little tickle. [laughs] It’s gonna suck. It’s gonna s–

Morgan: [laughs] Right. While Hat Man’s in the corner–

Em: And he’s got those– [wiggles their fingers]

Morgan: –and he’s gonna be like, “Here I come.” [wiggles her fingers]

Em: He’s got those fidgety fingers. They need something to do, yeah.

Morgan: He’s gonna take off his hat with a feather on it and be like– [mimes using the hat’s feather to tickle someone’s foot]

Em: [laughs] Like he’s Yankee Doodle?

Morgan: [laughs] I was just thinking his fedora might have a feather. I don’t know. Then tickle my feet with that. It’s fucking terrifying. I love that the Emily Morgan Hotel has shadow people–

Em: It– I know.

Morgan: –which as we know now are actually his minions.

Em: Yeah, I’m saying. I’m saying. Um–

Morgan: That’s great.

Em: People also swear that they’ll hear screaming or growling at night. There was actually a really awful story about this couple going into the hotel room. And like in the middle of the afternoon, um, only one of them in the room heard like really horrible growling, and the other one didn’t hear anything at all. Um, let me see.

Morgan: That’s great. I love that.

Em: There– [laughs] There is a rumor– I actually don’t know if this is a rumor. This might be true, but I only saw it on a few sites, and I feel like it should have been– It was burying the lead if this is true. But in room 810, apparently a woman named Elvira was stabbed to death in this room. Um, and I guess people think that maybe she’s one of the ghosts that haunts this place. People will hear a woman screaming, so maybe that’s associated with her. Um, one guest actually said– I don’t know if this is about Elvira or just another woman that’s a spirit there, but one ghost– Not one ghost. One guest, uh, he had to go to a formal event in the– in town, and he, I guess, was feeling himself, and he looked really sharp, and he asked the spirits like if a lady would like to accompany him. ’Cause he was going stag, and he was like, “Oh, if anyone wants to go as my date,” um–

Morgan: “Here’s my arm.”

Em: Yeah, “Here’s my arm.” He was later quoted saying, “When I collected the photos for that evening, every single picture of me, whether taken on my camera or not, had a round luminous orb either by my heart, in the hook of my arm, or at my hand. It even seemed to shrink in size and retreat to my arm when I was embracing or near another woman for the photos taken.”

Morgan: Did he post them?

Em: You know, that’s a great– Pics or it didn’t happen. That’s–

Morgan: Pics or it didn’t happen. I agree. But that is weird that they’re like, you know, everywhere. But pics or it didn’t happen, my guy.

Em: I also love that she was like a platonic respectful date of like, “Oh, you have to go hug another woman. Let me back off for a second.”

Morgan: “Let me back off.”

Em: That’s very nice. Um, one thing in the hotel that every site seemed to mention was that the faucets go crazy. Um, they have a total mind of their own. Sometimes all of them in one room will turn on at once, and they’ll only turn off once the guests call the front desk for help. They’ll literally call the front desk and say, “I’m scared,” and then all of them will turn off by themselves.

Morgan: Talk about flood zone. That’s–

Em: Well–

[silence as they wait for the other to speak]

Em: Oh [chuckles]. Sorry. I was like, “What?” Uh–

Morgan: [chuckles] I was waiting for the “well.”

Em: [laughs] One, one guest went out for the night, and when she came back, apparently her entire bath had been drawn. Like, it was like all the way to the top. Her bath was totally filled, which again–

Morgan: Like wasn’t coming over? That’s kinda co– That’s kinda nice.

Em: Wasn’t– That’s very nice. And I feel like– First of all, the water bill at this hotel must be crazy.

Morgan: Oh, yeah.

Em: Like half of it is just ghosts. But I can’t tell if the ghost is trying to be nice or ominous of like, “I’ve drawn you a bath.” It’s like, “Now I have to get naked in front of you. I don’t know about this.” But here’s–

Morgan: Yeah, they’re really, they’re really– This hotel’s filled with pick-mes. Let’s be so for real.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: They’re like, “Sorry, we’re not turning off the water until you call the front desk. Here’s your bath, but you better say thank you or else I’m gonna overfill it. Also, your radio is not gonna stop until you make note of it and pay attention to me.”

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: It’s very pick-me oriented–

Em: That’s a–

Morgan: –which begs me to think maybe Emily Morgan was a little pick-me.

Em: You know? I– There’s– You made a– That’s a great point. I hadn’t even thought about how desperate a lot of these ghosts are for attention. Like a l– Like the slamming of the toilet? Like, what are you doing that for except for my attention?

Morgan: “Pay attention to me.” [mimes lifting and closing a toilet lid quickly]

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Like that’s crazy.

Em: “I want attention!” Um–

Morgan: [laughs] Like they’re throwing temper tantrums literally.

Em: And you’re totally right that it is almost nice of the ghosts. Like if you’re going to fuck with the faucets, at least you don’t flood the place, ’cause that’s a r-real financial crisis.

Morgan: Mm-hmm. So like they respect the area, but they just want attention.

Em: Yeah, for attention. Yeah. Well, this one girl who l-left for a while and then came back and found her bathtub filled, she even said not only was the bath water run, but it was, uh, completely blue. The wa– This is a quote from her: “The water was blue. It was so blue that you would actually have to dye this water to be this color.” So like what the hell is that about?

Morgan: That’s weird.

Em: Yeah. Like what potion is in this? I don’t know.

Morgan: Like what’s that– What’s that called, m–? Methylene, methylene blue? Meth–

Em: What am I, a chemist? What are you talking about?

Morgan: [laughs] No, I don’t– I feel like it’s used in hospitals?

Em: Again, I would not know. [laughs] I, I know about blue raspberry syrup. That’s– Blue curaçao.

Morgan: [laughs] I don’t know about a blue raspberry slushy. [typing] Methylene blue hospital use. Let me, let me just look it up because that would be interesting, right? If–

Em: You’re talking like a real lab assistant. But yeah, that would be interesting if something hospital themed was going on here.

Morgan: Okay. Methylene blue, brand name– Okay. No, we’re not doing brand names. Okay. “Is used in hospitals for its primary purpose of treating the rare blood disorder methemoglobinemia [pronounced “meth-em-o-glob-een-eem-ia”].” M’kay.

Em: You nailed it.

Morgan: Methemoglobinemia [pronounced “meth-em-o-glob-in-eem-ia”]. Methemoglobinemia.

Em: Oh.

Morgan: “Which is when the blood is unable to carry and release oxygen effectively to the body.”

Em: Is it blue?

Morgan: I’m pretty sure it is. Hold on.

Em: [tying] Blue liquid in hospitals 1920s. Oh, exact– You’re– You must be right. “A prominent blue liquid in hospitals was methylene blue which was used for a blood disorder called” whatever you just said. So yeah.

Morgan: So what if–

Em: So maybe it was that? “It was discovered in 1876 and used throughout the early 20th century.” So yeah, it could’ve, could’ve been that.

Morgan: Which timelines the fact with the hospital, right?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: So maybe? ’Cause what else would turn that blue, right? That’s weird.

Em: I like how we’re like, “It couldn’t be anything but this,” when realistically it’s like it shouldn’t be happening at all. [laughs]

Morgan: It is used to treat this rare blood disorder. And you know, maybe the ghost was a helping hand and that person in that room had this blood disorder unknowingly, undiagnosed–

Em: You know what?

Morgan: And they’re like, “Here’s some–“

Em: Like a dog that can smell when you’re gonna pass out.

Morgan: “Here’s some bl– uh, methylene blue bath water to heal you. So get in it. You’re welcome. Pay attention to me.”

Em: “You, you need this, girl. You need this.” Yeah.

Morgan: Yeah. What if– I don’t know?

Em: That’s brilliant. You’re so smart.

Morgan: I just knew it dyed blue, and there was– I don’t know. We’ll see.

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Morgan: We’ll see. One day we’ll find out. [laughs]

Em: I don’t know why a sample wasn’t taken. I would hope at least like a cup was– ’cause it could just be fucking like mouthwash or something. Like I don’t know. But, um–

Morgan: No, you’re right. You’re right. Or like the pond dye.

Em: But I, I am surprised. Yeah.

Morgan: Like how’d they get ahold of that?

Em: How’d they get a h– I don’t know. I don’t know anything at this point. But I, I do know if there w– if I were in a situation where liquid was paranormally conjured in front of me, I’m keeping a sample of it. I’m like, “What the fuck is this?” Anyway–

Morgan: 100%. “While I’m here, for research purposes,” scoop.

Em: [laughs] Two last things is not only do the faucets have a mind of their own, the phones have a mind of their own. They will make calls to the front desk, and nobody’s on the other end. Or the rooms will get called by the front desk, and nobody’s on the other end. So either way, you never know if someone’s even on the line. Um–

Morgan: I’d be so mad.

Em: Especially in the middle of the night.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Like leave me alone. One night, a guest kept hearing chains clanking in her room. I don’t even know what that would be for. And–

Morgan: Yeah, why?

Em: –she called the front desk being like, “This is fucking crazy.” And this is a quote: “She phoned the front desk, and the woman working there promised her a full refund if the problems continued. The following morning, the guest mentioned the conversation to the new desk clerk who told her a woman had not been working the previous night.”

Morgan: Shut up.

Em: So theoretically, a ghost was like, “You’ll get a full refund,” which like that implies that the ghost is aware of the hotel because you don’t get a full refund at a hospital. I’ll tell you that.

Morgan: [laughs] Right. Yeah, no, right.

Em: Hm.

Morgan: But also tracks with our pick-me situation here.

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Morgan: Like, “I’m gonna rattle these chains until you use my phone line. My tech– ’Cause I’m tech-savvy. And then I pick it up, and I’m like, ‘Sure, you will be established a refund in the morning. Just let us know at the front desk.’”

Em: [laughs] So eerie.

Morgan: It is eerie.

Em: I wonder if the voice sounded odd or like were there like scratches on the line, like how eerie it was.

Morgan: Ah, I hate that.

Em: Um, and then the last thing to have a mind of its own are the elevators. This is probably the most common haunting in this hotel, but they will go to every floor but yours. Um, sometimes the elevators will just take off on their own without a button even being pressed, and you’ll just see the elevator going up or going down. Guests who have mentioned while in the elevator that it felt creepy, they will get locked in or brought to other floors, which I love how petty this ghost is. It’s like, “Oh, you want creepy? Okay, you don’t have to go to your room then.”

Morgan: [chuckles] “Okay, 14th floor. Here you go.”

Em: [laughs] Well, funny you mentioned that ’cause the front desk will get phone calls from the elevator, like the emergency phone in there, um, as if somebody’s calling for help. Nobody’s inside. And a lot of times, uh, people have pressed whatever button they’re supposed to go to on the elevator, and it will take them down all the way to the now not, uh– like a, like a restricted access. It will take them all the way down to the basement that used to be the morgue, open its doors to the morgue, and then refuse to move even when you press the door closed or a different button to–

Morgan: Ew.

Em: It’ll just keep you there. That’s horrifying. Imag–

Morgan: I ha– Ha– Have you ever been stuck in an elevator?

Em: No. And that– I don’t– Even if it was– Even if it wasn’t taking me to a morgue, I think that would scare me more to be just locked in an elevator ’cause you never know if it’s gonna drop.

Morgan: Yes, I, I was a child at a cheer competition or something. Me and my little friends were going down to the pool, and we were in Philadelphia. I don’t know what hotel it was. Or maybe Hershey, Pennsylvania. Somewhere arou– Somewhere not Pittsburgh. And we were going down the floor, but the elevator doors didn’t close all the way. So they were like– It was just like this tiny little crack like this [holds hands up a few inches apart], and it got stuck. Like it went down one floor, and then it got stuck on the next floor, but you could only see like this much of the floor from the top [holds fingers a few inches apart]

Em: Mm-mmm.

Morgan: We were calling the– We didn’t have cell phones, you know, we’re children. Calling the emergency line. Nobody is answering us. Nobody is picking up the emer–

Em: Oh my god.

Morgan: We’re screaming. Finally, some stranger walks by, and he sees three little girls in– like through the crack down at the ground, and the elevator’s stuck. We’re like, “He–” We’re all crying, hyperventilating, freaking out.

Em: [chuckles]

Morgan: And he was like, “Um, okay, let me go to the front desk.” Front desk comes up, and now, somehow because we ran into somebody that knew somebody that knew somebody, our parents are now there, and then my mom really was a Karen.

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: She was like, “Three little girls!” ’Cause she was the cheer coach also, so she was like, “Three little girls stuck in an elevator, and your emergency line doesn’t even work!” They’re like, “Sorry, we didn’t know.” We were in there for probably 35, 40 minutes.

Em: I’d be terrified. I really–

Morgan: Oh, it’s t–

Em: I’m sure there’s like actual fail-safes where like the elevator won’t just drop anymore, but you never know.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: Like does it fully just stop working, and it just cuts the cable?

Morgan: Right, and do we, do we have a nice little cushiony pad at the bottom? Or–

Em: No.

Morgan: –or are we just straight to the cement, you know?

Em: [laughs]

Morgan: Hate that. Couldn’t imagine if that happened to me into a morgue though.

Em: No. I–

Morgan: And then what if you went– What if the doors opened up, and it like time lapsed into the hospital, and so you see people like traying bodies?

Em: Morgan, I–

Morgan: You weren’t going that far? [laughs]

Em: I would be– I would have to check into that hospital on the mental health floor [chuckles] ’cause I’d be like, “It’s– I’m fucking losing it. This is crazy.”

Morgan: “Take me to the– see your behavioral please.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, I ca– I really can’t imagine. It’s one thing to be on an elevator with like that– M-maybe you could claim like, “Oh, it just needs to be updated, and it’s taking us to different floors ’cause the, the machine’s faulty or something.”

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: But how fucking creepy that like, “Oh, it’ll take you all the way to exactly where– the one floor it’s not supposed to let people to, and it won’t budge.” Like I wonder– Someone must have been stuck in the elevator with the door open just showing you an empty, dark fucking hallway into a morgue.

Morgan: Right.

Em: How long did you have to stand there until it went, “Okay, joke’s over,” and closed the doors and brought you to y– to your room? Or did the people actually get off the elevator, and that’s when the elevator closed and like left them there? It’s o–

Morgan: And they went emergency stairs up.

Em: Yeah, it’s only one of the two situations that happen. Um–

Morgan: I hate both. I–

Em: Me too.

Morgan: I hate both.

Em: The last fun fact I have for you is that the Emily Morgan Hotel has, in the past, leaned into the spookiness, um, and they would sell packages to their, uh, rooms. Uh, one of the packages was called the Haunted Dinner Tour where you would actually have like a three course meal, and then it would take you on a ghost tour throughout the city, and you would end up at an occult shop. And then there was another package called A Room with a Boo, instead of a room with a view. And apparently–

Morgan: Eva, did you name that? [laughs]

Em: [laughs] It does feel very Paraween. But, uh, apparently you would get like blueberry “booberry” pancakes the next morning complimentary.

Morgan: Okay, that’s, that’s kinda cute.

Em: Um, anyway–

Morgan: So we should do it is what you’re saying?

Em: Oh, we should, except apparently there was one comment I saw on Reddit of a guy that used to work there, and he said that when it became a DoubleTree hotel, they like made them kind of stay clear of like it leaning into the spookiness anymore, that they only did that as the official hotel.

Morgan: They only do cookies at check-in.

Em: [laughs] Yeah, cookies. No ghosts. Um, anyway, that’s the Emily Morgan Hotel. So.

Morgan: Okay, so then goal one is to–

Em: Revamp their ghost packaging.

Morgan: –get enough money to, get enough money to buy the hotel.

Em: [laughs] Okay. Eva, that’s your new project.

Morgan: Bring back the tourists– Eva, this is what your goals are set for 2026.

Em: Help us, um, with a– We’re gonna do a fundraiser, and it’s gonna– Oh, she says, “On it.” Great. Perfect.

Morgan: How did you see that?

Em: [sighs] Oh, she texted us.

Morgan: Oh.

Em: It just popped up on my laptop. We–

Morgan: Oh, I, I put it on Do Not Disturb.

Em: We need it often, um, when Christine and I are confused about something, and thank god Eva’s always there to just like give us the answer [chuckles] ’cause we, we sound like dummies sometimes. Um–

Morgan: Well, thank you, Em. I loved that.

Em: Oh, I loved it also. I– Thank you for coming on, and before we go, I want to let people know that– Please go check out our, our socials to see the lineup of other people that are, uh, cross-hosting, I suppose.

Morgan: Mm-hmm.

Em: And, um, go to our socials also to find out about some Paraween merch if you want to go get yourself a shirt. And go check out Creeps and Crimes. And what else?

Morgan: Yes, check out Creeps and Crimes.

Em: And head over– We’re gonna do a Yappy Hour also, and so, um, head over, and Morgan and I are gonna keep chit-chatting about where– wherever the wind takes us, I guess, so.