E474 Amelia Bedelia Math and Iced Tea Pranks

TOPICS: THE GOLDFIELD HOTEL PT. 1, ROBERT LEE YATES AKA THE GROCERY BAG KILLER

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Episode 474 is here and we’re dreaming about being in a hotel in a booming gold rush town. This week Em takes us to Nevada for Part 1 of the haunted Goldfield Hotel, aka the first place Ghost Adventures ever investigated! Then Christine cracks open our second book, A Haunted Road Atlas: Next Stop, to cover the case of Robert Lee Yates aka the Grocery Bag Killer more in depth. And will someone tell our left eyes how to wake up properly? …and that’s why we drink!

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Transcript

[intro music]

Christine: You just said you hate ice.

Em: I– [chuckles] Well, I didn’t mean it that way, but I certainly mean it that way, you know.

Christine: I was like, “What a way to start the podcast, Em. Wow.”

Em: [chuckles] Well–

Christine: “Hot take.” [laughs]

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] Everyone, don’t cancel me, but I fucking hate ICE. Um–

Christine: “It’s time I take a stand.” [chuckles]

Em: [laughs] It’s time I have an opinion finally on something.

Christine: [singing “Imagine” by John Lennon] ♪ Imagine all the people ♪♪ [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Ah, help.

Em: [sighs] Well–

Christine: I’m trapped.

Em: –we’ve made it to March. How are you doing this fine third month we are–

Christine: [sighs] I just barely know–

Em: –we are experiencing?

Christine: –what day it is, what time it is. I– You said, “March,” and I went, “Well, not yet.” And then I looked at the calendar and went–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –“What the fuck happened?”

Em: It’s March. Yeah, March, uh– Today– Well, yesterday was March 1, and sadly, I still know that as Justin Bieber’s birthday. So happy birthday to him.

Christine: Oh. [laughs]

Em: And the fir– That was the f– When I first saw the calendar, I went, “Oh, it’s Justin’s birthday.” And I didn’t even say Bieber.

Christine: Ha–

Em: I just– As if it was– As if he’s my pal.

Christine: Justin, right. Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Sure.

Em: So hope he’s doing well. I didn’t get invited to the party.

Christine: Is that–

Em: Kind of pissed off, but–

Christine: That’s weird.

Em: –whatever.

Christine: Yeah. Maybe it got lo– maybe the Partif– Partiful invitation got lost in the mail.

Em: The carrier pigeon, uh, flew a different direction, so.

Christine: That's– Must have been it. Um, Em, what do you drink and why? I saw you have a little bevvy.

Em: Yeah, I’m disappointed. It’s not my strawblem I’ve been really going with these days, but it’s just my usual tea. Although, the last few times you’ve seen me try this tea, I’ve had a real problem with this– the lack of flavor. And today, they really brought the flavor, so it’s gonna be a good day.

Christine: Not a strawblem, but a traditional problem you’ve had.

Em: That’s exactly right. That’s– So I have that–

Christine: Okay. Can I see it?

Em: Can you see it? Yeah. It’s just tea. You know, I don’t know if it’s gonna really blow your mind.

Christine: Just show it to me.

[Em holds up a clear to-go cup filled with ice and a red-colored tea with their left hand on the right side of the screen.]

Christine: Oh, okay, okay, okay.

Em: Um, and then I also have a second one, just in case.

[Em holds up another to-go cup of tea, but picks it up with their other hand this time.]

Christine: Oh! [laughs]

Em: [chuckles] Just in case–

Christine: That’s a good jump scare from the other side of the screen. [laughs] Just like–

Em: [laughs] Can you imagine if I just accidentally just– if I just snuck it around the computer and–

Christine: Oh my–

Em: –it was just the same cup?

Christine: [laughs] “I got two. See?”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It's just the weirdest prank ever.

Em: [laughs] And I’m not even gonna tell you if it’s true or not. It’s just for me. Um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: No, there’s–

Christine: Honestly, I like it better that way. Let me live–

Em: –there’s two.

[Em holds up both cups at the same time.]

Christine: –in the magic. Whoa!

Em: [laughs]

Christine: That, that was when you mirrored your screen. You were like, “Watch.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, but yeah, so I, I got– just got my tea today, and, uh, anyway, what are you drink– Well, what are you drinking today?

Christine: Oh, I’m just drinking my water. Thank you for asking. [picks up a blue gray Stanley cup with stickers on it.] Um, this is my And That’s Why We Drink “Drink up, Christine,” “thirsty little rat” water with Scrappy.

Em: Love it.

Christine: Um, and you know, I hate ICE too, Em. You’re not the only one with a, with a–

Em: Damn, I thought I was finally original about something.

Christine: –hot take, so I got my s– my Little Devil sticker. Um–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: –I want to address something, which is that I got my eyebrows done. [laughs] And I want to address this because–

Em: Beautiful.

Christine: Thank you so much. I have to say that I’m on video– We’re on video.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And I got them done on Friday, and she said, “You know, for the first like eight days, they’re gonna look pretty crazy.” And I was like, “Oh, good thing–“

Em: Hm.

Christine: “–I won’t be seeing anyone.” And then we like immediately got on YouTube, and I went, “Oh, right. [laughs] Right, that’s– They’re– Yeah.”

Em: They’re– You’re far away enough I guess I can’t see the craziness that she’s referring to.

Christine: Yeah, I just blow out the lighting, and it looks awesome.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: No, no, no. I actually– I’m very happy with it. I got them microbladed. Do you know what that is?

Em: Yeah, I’ve never had that before. Um, how did that go? Was it painful? It looks a little too–

Christine: Yeah, like kind of.

Em: Yeah, it looks so.

Christine: Yeah, like a little bit. It was– I mean, it was numbed, so it wasn’t bad, but it was like a tattoo, right? I mean, it is a tattoo, so it’s like you f– And I think the freakiest part is like, you know, when you’re at the dentist and you like hear it, but you don’t feel it?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So like you could hear like [makes a harsh shearing sound in the back of her throat] like slicing with a little blade. So that part was creepy.

Em: Crazy.

Christine: Em’s face. [laughs]

Em: Crazy.

Christine: But I got to say the before and after is fucking nuts. Like I looked at it, and I almo– I actually told her, uh– By the way, shout out, her name’s Honor, and she, um, owns Brow OTR in O-Over-the-Rhine in Cincinnati, and she did such a great job. I was really nervous. I’d never gotten anything done on my eyebrows before. And then I was like, “Why not start with tattooing them?” Um, and she did a really like patient– It took like two and a half hours. It was just, uh, really weirdly relaxing and calming. And um, yeah, she was, she was great. But she, she looked at them, and she’s like, “That face.” And I was like, “You’re such a–“ She’s just a delight. So if you’re– if you’re nervous or you want to get your eyebrows done, I would recommend it. I’m gonna lean forward. But so these are like now on there for a long time, like I think a year, question mark? Six months to a year? I don’t know. But you just have to get like touch-ups done, and you don’t have to do anything. But now, for once, my brows are even. So I’m gonna look forward. Here we go.

[Christine leans closer to the camera, closing her eyes as she shows off her eyebrows.]

Em: Congratulations. [singing Ariel’s vocalizing to Ursula from The Little Mermaid] ♪ Ah-ah-ah, ah-ah-ah / Ah-ah-ah– ♪

Christine: [laughs]

Em: ♪ –ah-ah-ah-ah-ah ♪♪

Christine: Thank you so much. And so this is my year of, uh– No, keep it up, Em. No, I’m kidding.

Em: Oh– [laughs]

Christine: Uh, this is my year– [laughs] This is my year of trying to feel like me again. I’m hibernating a little bit, but I’m also like– I just want to feel comfortable in my body, you know? So–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –I’m trying some things. I just want to get my eyebrows done, you know, and like–

Em: So–

Christine: –maybe get a haircut. We’ll see.

Em: So how does it– Do you still need– You still need to like tweeze them, yeah? Or no? Or like sh–

Christine: Nope.

Em: So how’s that work? How’s that work?

Christine: So I– The, the eyebrows I already had are basically like in there. [laughs]

Em: Oh, so she just basically did a whole outline around the–

Christine: Yes, precisely.

Em: –the parts you would tweeze. Okay, I see.

Christine: Precisely.

Em: So she just colored it in–

Christine: So it’s–

Em: –so there’s no strays.

Christine: Right. And you kind of draw– And you draw in the little hairs and stuff, which is, uh, how it looks kind of like hair, but it’s not, you know.

Em: I see. I see. Interesting.

Christine: Um, and it was really like– I kind of did it on a whim because I knew otherwise I’d never do it.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And I was like, “I don’t do–“ Like I don’t really usually– It’s not that I have a problem with it. I just never– I’m a very anxious person. Like I barely go get my nails done ’cause I get anxious. So it’s like– But it was an undertaking, and I’m very, uh, very thankful. And I want to also shout out– So [chuckles] Honor was like, “Oh, I’ve been on YouTube. My sister and I did a YouTube channel,” and I’m like, “Oh, interesting.” And she shows me some of the videos, and I’m like, “It’s so weird. Like, her sister looks so familiar.” And then she opens– She goes, “Yeah, it’s a children’s channel. This is our biggest, uh– This is one of our biggest videos.” And she opens it, and I go, “ [gasps] I know this video. Leona and I watch ‘Five Little Ducks,’ this exact one, all the time,” and that was her sister.

Em: Precious.

Christine: So fun little synchronicity, but, um, the YouTube channel is called Pip and Pals, and they make really awesome little, uh, kid’s videos. So I wanted to give that a shout-out ’cause, um, she said it’s just been a– kind of a, a grueling process getting that off the ground. And I’m just really, uh, happy with the jo– with the work of it, and I feel a lot more confident, you know? Just feel like more–

Em: Nice. Well–

Christine: –more me.

Em: You look marvelous, darling. I, um–

Christine: Thank you so much. They– And they’ll fade like 30% is what I was gonna say. Sorry.

Em: Oh?

Christine: Like they fade a little bit because they’re a little like–

Em: D– And then you have to do it again?

Christine: Well, so they’re– They put a lot on ’cause 30% of it comes off in the first like week or so, or two weeks.

Em: I see. Okay.

Christine: Couple weeks? And so then it’ll like look more natural. Right now it’s a little intense if you know–

Em: My, my grandma got her eyebrows like tattooed on but like, like, like a permanent– like a ta– like tattooed. [chuckles]

Christine: Like old school? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Em: It’s like– Like I think like–

Christine: The line?

Em: I think like laser hair removal-ed and then tattooed.

Christine: Just smack it on there.

Em: So she just never had to think about it ever again.

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Em: Um–

Christine: I mean, it’s, it’s g– like it’s genius. If that is what works for you, man, like do it, you know? Like–

Em: She also her lipstick–

Christine: –why wake up everyday and try to–

Em: –and her eyeliner tattooed on.

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: I mean, she’s– She was like, “Why ever think about this again?”

Christine: She’s just decked out. She’s like, “When I get to heaven, I’m gonna be looking fine–“

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “–no matter what happens in the next couple years.” [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. No, I, uh, I, I don’t see a downside to any permanent work getting done just to, just to free yourself from the mental labor. Um–

Christine: Yes. And the labor of having to, um, f– You know when your camera flips and you’re like, “Is that what I look like?”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: You know, like when you rotate it? Like my eyebrows would always go “wonk!”, and I’d go, “Whoa!”

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “Is that how everyone sees me?” And so it was just this constant thought in my mind, and now I feel like I’ve gotten them a little evened. But, um, but yeah, yeah.

Em: I, I don’t have– I’ve never had an opinion on your eyebrows that would scare you. [chuckles] I’ve never had like a, “Oh, wow. Christine, her eyebrows,” but I have that– I know what you’re talking about when I have that with my eye ’cause I have one squinty eye. Um–

Christine: Yes. Yes. Me, too.

Em: I have– It’s very stupid, but only one of my eyelids is hooded and the other one is not.

Christine: Yeah, remember we discussed this?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: ’Cause I said it runs in my family on one side, and you should check to see if your other family members have the same like– Do they? Did we talk about this?

Em: I think we did, yeah. Um, all I know is e-every time the camera flips, one of my eyes looks like it’s like three inches lower–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –on the rest of my face to me, and I’m just like, “What the fuck is going on?” [chuckles]

Christine: And it’s funny ’cause I like– I obviously do not notice that ever. But, um–

Em: I think I– I feel like I always like tilt my head one way, and I’m like maybe that makes my eyes look even. [laughs] I don’t know. But–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –anyway.

Christine: It looks– makes you look a little more like a dog in my opinion.

Em: Yeah. I don’t know what’s going on there. But I, I– Certainly if I had to change one thing about my face, it would be like that my eyes don’t look– I– As– I know everyone’s with a– looking at my face right now is probably looking at my eyes, but to me, they look so different. Um, especially when I just wake up, it’s like my eyes like refuse to open.

Christine: Oh, yeah. I get the sleepy eye on one side, and it’s like, “Wake up!”

Em: This eye literally takes two more minutes to open than this side. Like when I wake up–

Christine: Is that your left? That’s my left too. It’s like–

Em: My left.

Christine: –really aggravating.

Em: When I, uh, wake up and I’m like checking my phone, this eye is always closed.

Christine: Yep, same.

Em: It like needs– It always needs another minute.

Christine: And I think that’s actually why my eyebrows were kind of fucked up too ’cause I like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: My muscles of my eyebrows are like [chuckles] using different–

Em: Yeah, I think gravity just like holding this one down.

Christine: Right.

Em: I don’t know what’s going on, but.

Christine: Oh my god. Eyebrow workout.

Em: [sighs] Well, anyway, I, uh, I appreciate you sharing your journey with us.

Christine: Thank you. And, and I feel like I’ve commented before like, “Oh, people are rude about my eyebrows.” Nobody’s really been that rude. Someone said I have brow blindness, but like I have to agree. Right? Like it was like it needed to be said.

Em: What is brow blindness? What is that?

Christine: It’s like when you like don’t see– like you do too much on your face or whatever, and you don’t even recognize like [chuckles] how silly you look. Um–

Em: Oh, I don’t think you have that.

Christine: –and it’s hard because like– It, it’s kind of the– It’s that same idea with the flipping the mirror where you’re like, “Oh, shit. I didn’t notice. I’m so used to it. I didn’t notice like this one was way heavier or whatever.”

Em: Mm.

Christine: And so, um, someone said like, “Girl, you’ve got [chuckles] br-brow blindness,” and a few people commented. And, um, nobody was ever really like mean about it, but it just kind of was at a certain point where I was like, “I just want to like feel– I don’t know. I want to try it,” so.

Em: Sure. Wonderful. Um, you look great. [chuckles]

Christine: Thank you. I appreciate it.

Em: Um–

Christine: I feel more put together, you know, more polished.

Em: Good, good. I, I, I don’t know what I need to update on myself currently, but I’ll figure it out along the way.

Christine: Is the tea bad?

Em: What?

Christine: Or you’re– Is the tea bad? Or you’re just saying you’re disappointed it’s not a strawblem. Sorry, your tea, your iced tea.

Em: Huh?

Christine: Sorry, your iced tea. I went off a different– I derailed, literally.

Em: I was, I was gonna say, are we like five minutes in the past? I, um– [laughs]

Christine: My train car went this way, and I crashed into a tree.

Em: My–

Christine: And I wanted to know if you liked your tea or not. [chuckles]

Em: [laughs] I do like it. I don’t know what’s missing about it.

Christine: Mm.

Em: I think I’ve drank it too many times, and now like I think I’ve, I think I’ve, um, what’s the word? Like my hyperfixation meal is slowly starting to decline. Like you know when you can feel the love fading–

Christine: Oh…

Em: –when you like were obsessed with something for a little bit.

Christine: Yeah, what is that called? That’s called– That’s a– There’s a name for that. Uh, diminishing returns.

Em: Sure. That’s what I’m experiencing currently with this. I–

Christine: [laughs] It’s–

Em: Um–

Christine: I learned that in microeconomics, by the way.

Em: I mean, it’s very yummy. [chuckles] You’re literally so smart. Like go to Harvard. Um–

Christine: I literally got a C in that class–

Em: I–

Christine: –so I’m not that smart. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Well, I, I don’t know if you’ve seen recently, but I’ve been buying myself math workbooks, uh, for fun.

Christine: Yeah, what’s that about?

Em: And I’m finding out that I’m actually r– I just wanted to– It’s no different than like getting like a, a–

Christine: Okay, here’s my question.

Em: Huh?

Christine: Than a what?

Em: Than like a puzzle book, like getting like Sudoku or something. It’s like easy math problems, you know.

Christine: Yes, it is. You literally said you’re gonna hate yourself ’cause you can’t do it. And at least I can do a puzzle book usually. Well… I guess that’s fair.

Em: I– Um, it, it’s–

Christine: But math isn’t like fun.

Em: The math is–

Christine: Is it?

Em: It is fun. Um, but it’s the– I’m finding out that it’s the instructions that always would stress me out. I didn’t know as a kid what was so– why I was so bad at math and like what the situation was. And I’m realizing it’s that I would always take the instructions too literally, because I’m doing it even right now as a 30-year-old. Like I–

Christine: I wonder if that’s my thing.

Em: –I’m reading the instructions and I’m like–

Christine: ’Cause I, I take instructions very literally too, and that’s, that’s something I’ve always– I’ve recently noticed.

Em: Yeah. I, um–

Christine: I’m fascinated now. [chuckles]

Em: I’m no–

Christine: Tell me more.

Em: Like the math itself is like very easy, but the instructions are like throwing me way the fuck off and I don’t know why. And then like someone else will read the instructions and they’re like, “Just do this,” and I’m like, “How did you know to do–“

Christine: I wonder–

Em: I feel like Amelia fucking Bedelia? I’m like just so–

Christine: Yeah, that’s how I always felt doing math, and I always ended up in tears. It always was like a fight. One time, my alge– pre-calc– or no, pre-algebra book went out the window–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –into the side yard and got rained on, and I had to pay for like a new textbook ’cause my mom threw it out the window. Like–

Em: Yikes.

Christine: –I hated math. And that was fifth grade too, yeah, I think. Or sixth grade? Anyway, I’m proud of you. That’s awesome. So wait.

Em: Well–

Christine: Okay, so my question was why did you do that and CPR? Are you like learning life skills or something? Or is this just like for fun? Like they just happen to be two skills you’re learning?

Em: Just for fun.

Christine: Okay, okay. I didn’t know if there was like a bigger picture–

Em: Yeah, n–

Christine: –like you’re preparing for something, like a, like a mathlete–

Em: No. [chuckles]

Christine: –or something, you know.

Em: I’d love that. No, I– I’m just trying to be in a class every day of the week, so I’m just in like a bunch of classes.

Christine: Wow. [chuckles]

Em: Uh–

Christine: Every day of the week?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: What other class–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Can– May I ask what classes you’re taking?

Em: Yeah, they’re all almost over now because I’ve been doing them since like November, I think, or December.

Christine: Oh my god, you must be s– like so educated now.

Em: I don’t know about that. The math one isn’t like a class.

Christine: You didn’t take– Did you take microeconomics?

Em: I just– No, [chuckles] it’s literally fourth grade math. Um, but I, I just bought that for fun. That’s not like a class. Um, but I was doing CPR and first aid, and I have another cl– I have one more class in that. Um, then I have– On Sundays, I go to line dancing, gay line dancing, so everyone look out on that.

Christine: Oh!

Em: Um, on Mondays, I– I’m on a dodgeball team. On Tuesday, I do ASL. On Wednesday, I do guitar. On Thursday, I–

Christine: Jesus. What are you, a literal fifth grader?

Em: What do I do on Thursdays?

Christine: I feel like your like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –yeah, extracurriculars are off the charts.

Em: I know. I know. Um, yeah, I’m just doing a bunch of stuff. I just try to like leave the house for more than just to like go to the dog park. So, um–

Christine: Mm, good for you.

Em: Yeah. So anyway, I’ve n–

Christine: What’s your favorite?

Em: Probably ASL. I– That’s the easiest for me.

Christine: Oh, I love A– Yeah, I took a couple classes, but I’ve always wanted to learn it.

Em: I, uh– I’m in like a– I don’t know if I would call it an intensive one, but it’s, it’s for the next like several months. Um–

Christine: Whoa.

Em: And our teacher is, is actually deaf which is very–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –helpful. It’s a very immersive experience.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: But, um, no, that’s been [sighs], that’s been nice. And then, uh, on days where I don’t have activities, I have standing dates. I have like three standing dates, um, every week with, week with people to like go do something. So.

Christine: Oh, fun.

Em: Yeah, just trying to keep my brain stretchy and be outside and–

Christine: Good for you.

Em: And then I have like weekly goals, like I al– at least once a week, I have to ride my bike. I have to go play bingo or trivia in town. I have to go to the local diner. Um–

Christine: Oh my gosh, you’re such a social butterfly.

Em: I’m trying. I have made a shocking amount of friends though, which is very nice. I, uh–

Christine: I was gonna say, I feel like that’s probably the best part is you’re like meeting all these people, probably.

Em: Yeah, it’s, um, it’s, uh, gotten a little actually overwhelming ’cause, um– I don’t know. I wanted to make friends, and I, I did. And now I’m like, “Okay, everyone–“

Christine: Well, now you got to cut back some extracurriculars.

Em: “–back up.” [laughs]

Christine: Listen, like you’re gonna have to cut them back to make room for all your plans now.

Em: I know. Well, then I’m forcing all these friends to also do the classes with me so that way we can– I can kill two birds with one stone. Um–

Christine: Oh, right. That’s actually way smarter. Yeah, okay.

Em: Yeah. So I have friends in line dancing, and I have friends in ASL–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and I have friends in guitar. So–

Christine: Oh, I see. Okay.

Em: [sighs] Anyway, it’s a whole thing.

Christine: Em, I can’t wait for you to have a birthday party, and everyone will be like, “Oh, how do you know Em?” “Oh, from like line dancing.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “Oh, how do you know Em?” “Oh, from our coding class.” “Oh, how do you know Em?” “Oh, from our fifth grade math league.” Like–

Em: It’s so funny you said coding class. I literally just signed up for a coding class last night. That’s so fucking weird.

Christine: I knew that was gonna be on the list.

Em: Um–

Christine: I just– Listen, not surp–

Em: No, we’re–

Christine: I would have ASL, coding, um, like some sort of like weird sport, like axe throwing or like, um–

Em: Li– Archery, my friend.

Christine: –crossbow shooting.

Em: Archery’s next.

Christine: Archery, yes. Yes!

Em: ’Cause–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –dodgeball ends in two more weeks, I think. And I’m trying to make it a thing where like I’m always in something. I’m trying to –

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: I’m trying to just move my body more. Not for like any particular reason, but just because I’m 30. Um– [chuckles]

Christine: Yeah. And I mean–

Em: Uh–

Christine: –it’s good. Yeah.

Em: –or in my 30s. Um, but so I’m just– [chuckles] I’m trying to move more. So I was like, “I guess I’ll do dodgeball.” And, very fun, I got to play with the USA team in dodgeball. Wasn’t that–

Christine: What?

Em: Isn’t that so fun?

Christine: Jeez.

Em: I know. Uh, I guess there’s technically not an Olympic team, but there’s a USA team, but then they’re also playing, I think, in the LA Olympics coming up. I’m kind of confused about how it goes. But, um, there’s one girl on the team who is known as like the best thrower in the country. Like the best–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: And I did not catch a ball from her, but I did block a ball from her.

Christine: Did it hurt?

Em: Um, a little bit. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: She literally– She lo– She threw it like she throws like, like those cannonballs. What did like Miss Trunchbull do?

Christine: Oh my god. Yeah.

Em: Not a javelin, but the, the, the ball one.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Shotput. Um–

Christine: Shotput.

Em: Yeah. And this is a foam ball. She threw it at like 100,000 miles an hour. Um, but I did block it, which was very fun. Um, if I didn’t, my head would have fallen off, I think.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: But I got to play with them, and I got to play against them. So I can–

Christine: Damn.

Em: –I can say both, which is fun. Anyway–

Christine: That's actually cool. Yeah.

Em: –I guess I drink ’cause I’ve just been running around, so.

Christine: You’ve been adding to your potentials– your list of potential answers for um, two truths and a lie.

Em: Yeah. And my weekly trivia, of course.

Christine: Right. And that, too. Right.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Fair point.

Em: Yeah. I– There’s a, a bingo hall out here that plays every Tuesday, and it’s a– like a lot of seniors go. I don’t think they really care that– for me being there. I think it was like a seniors–

Christine: Yeah, my brother goes to some, and–

Em: –specific thing.

Christine: –they’re intense.

Em: They’re really intense. And I kind of have, um, gotten a bunch of people at the dog park to all come with me, um, to these things, and so now– I think they don’t like that the youths are there, you know.

Christine: Ah, you’re like taking over. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Sorry about that, but I want that cash prize too, so. Anyway, that’s why I drink. We talked a lot about–

Christine: Wonderful.

Em: –my calendar, I guess. Sorry, everybody. Um, but anyway, I got a story for you.

Christine: Bring it on.

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Em’s Story – The Goldfield Hotel - Part 1

Em: Okay. This is a two-parter–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and I don’t know if I will elaborate on that. I think you have to find out next week why it’s a two-parter. I don’t know.

Christine: Oh my gosh. Okay.

Em: We’ll see how things go.

Christine: Okay.

Em: De-depends on if you piss me off. Let’s see. Um, so– [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs] Okay. Challenge accepted.

Em: So uh, this is the– I don’t know what my fucking deal is. I’m not trying to do this. Everybody– I’m sure people’s eyes are just gonna roll into the back of their head when I say this, but apparently, every story I cover these days is a gold rush mining location.

Christine: [laughs] Listen, I think I’m just putting those vibes in the air ’cause it is my favorite genre I think. It’s that cowboy Wild West like gold rush era. I just love it.

Em: I’m– I like– I’m actively trying to find different locations, and then I’ll be like, “Oh, here’s a story I haven’t covered”–

Christine: Do you know what I just re–

Em: –and then it goes, “Back during the booming town of this gold mine,” I’m like, “Oh my god. Well, great.”

Christine: Okay. Well, here’s the thing. My nu– my favorite number, as we all know, is 49, which is the year the gold rush started, which is why the ‘49ers are g– I don’t know. I’m just like really tied into this gold rush thing for some reason. So I mean, I appreciate it. Okay?

Em: I–

Christine: I don’t know about anyone else.

Em: I appreciate your enthusiasm. Um, hang on.

Christine: You know, frankly, everyone else can go fuck off. [chuckles]

Em: [laughs] Thank you. You s– You said that very–

Christine: It felt–

Em: –intensely.

Christine: I’m s– Look how my palms literally s– burst into sweat when I said that. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] No, I was gonna say–

Christine: I’m like– I’m just drenched all of a sudden.

Em: I was gonna say you, you looked really like good with i– with your eyebrows and everything. Like you were like–

Christine: Oh, thanks.

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: I need some practice to like stay in my body when I do that and not just go, “Cool. That didn’t feel nice. I’m leaving.”

Em: [laughs] Well, no, you killed it.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: So um, okay, we’re in 1902, and, uh, we’re– By the way, we’re also in Ne-Nevada [pronounced “Neh-va-duh”].

Christine: I said 1949. I meant 1849–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –I think is what I said–

Em: S–

Christine: –when I said ‘49ers. I’m not trying to say that gold rush was in 1949. Okay, sorry.

Em: You, you said it to me, and I didn’t even notice, so.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: Um, so we’re in Nevada [pronounced “Neh-va-duh”], not Nevada [pronounced “Neh-vah-duh”], right? Nevada [pronounced “Neh-va-duh”].

Christine: Yes.

Em: ‘kay.

Christine: You're right.

Em: And we’re in 1902, and the discovery of gold has led to the very, very quickly developed booming town of Goldfield, Nevada.

Christine: [chuckles] Clever.

Em: And by the way, the title of this is the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Um–

Christine: I love a h– You know, I love a hotel.

Em: So just another reason why this is repetitive because–

Christine: Another hotel. I love it.

Em: –always a hotel in a booming gold town. God. Um–

Christine: That's where I want to be though.

Em: So gold seekers– What’s that?

Christine: Oh, that’s just where I want to be in a booming h– in a gold– in a hotel in a booming gold rush town. That’s where I want to be.

Em: I also want that but also like with sanitation, you know?

Christine: Well, yeah. Yeah. I want that like–

Em: And like clean water.

Christine: I want that like as a vibe, not as my life. [laughs]

Em: I see. I want to go to a themed hotel i– today.

Christine: I think we did that. Which one was that?

Em: Oh.

Christine: Congress Hotel?

Em: Congress.

Christine: Hotel Congress?

Em: Yeah. I don’t know if that was themed.

Christine: That felt pretty on the nose.

Em: I don’t know the difference between– It–

Christine: I think that was more just like “this is old.” [laughs]

Em: I think it was like they just haven’t changed anything in 100 years.

Christine: Exactly. Yeah, I guess that’s different.

Em: But I– Yeah. No, I want to feel like I’m a cowboy, but I want to a-also have air conditioning. So there’s like the real–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s gotta–

Christine: Please. Not a sweaty cowboy.

Em: As much as I want to be a time traveler, I really have to, you know–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –reconcile with the fact that most places would be uncomfortable heat-wise.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: So maybe time travel isn’t for me, folks. [sighs] So okay, 1902.

Christine: Whoa! [chuckles]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: That’s quite a–

Em: I’ll change–

Christine: Okay, let’s not go that far.

Em: I’ll change my mind tomorrow. Don’t worry.

Christine: Yeah, okay. Good.

Em: I didn’t mean it. I didn’t mean it. Um, so the gold seekers moved in very quickly. I mean, tale is old as time at this point. They found gold. Now a hotel needs to be built because everyone’s there.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, but this town became literally booming way, way, way, way too quick. Within, uh, five years, the population went from like basically nobody to 30,000 people. Like it was–

Christine: Oh, Jesus.

Em: –big old, big old town all of a sudden. And obviously, a need for a hotel came around, and, uh, it was designed by this guy, George Holesworth, where, fun fact, he designed multiple hotels throughout Nevada, and all of them are now weirdly on, um, all of the Nevada Most Haunted lists. So–

Christine: Oh, okay. He had something going there.

Em: He did. There’s something really spooky-ookie about him. Um–

Christine: Weird.

Em: So he built this hotel. He built it on what was the original site of like Nevada’s first hotel, I guess, but then it burnt down at some point in the 1800s, so fun fact. Goldfield Hotel’s now there.

Christine: He was like, “Mine now.”

Em: Yeah. [laughs] So like every other story, folks– I’m so sorry to do this to you again, but this hotel was, quote, “one of the most luxurious hotels west of the Mississippi.”

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: And it had all these elaborate amenities. Um, and I don’t know– At some point, I have to imagine that none of–

Christine: It had a bathroom.

Em: [chuckles] It had air conditioning. Uh, it actually did have–

Christine: Woo-hoo!

Em: –heated steam, so we’re in one direction. We– We’re going somewhere.

Christine: Ooh, okay.

Em: Um, it had electricity, which, you know, I would have really appreciated. Um–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –it had– In the lobby alone, it had crystal chandeliers, leather furniture, and gold-leaf ceilings. Ooh.

Christine: Oh my.

Em: It was four stories. The entire hotel cost $300,000 to build, which today would be $11 million. Yikes.

Christine: Oy.

Em: Um–

Christine: That's a lot.

Em: Which– I don’t even know what a cheap hotel would cost today. I feel like that–

Christine: Although, then I’m like how much is a hotel building to make? I mean, that’s probably many millions of dollars, right? And the property. It's probably more.

Em: I feel like even the worst, the worst crappiest motel still costs like $1 million.

Christine: Totally.

Em: Right?

Christine: I do too. At least, I would–

Em: So is 11 really that big of a deal?

Christine: Many more than that. Yeah, probably not. Yeah, what the fuck? Who cares?

Em: I don’t know anymore.

Christine: I’m just kidding. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] So allegedly, the hotel–

Christine: Sorry. I don’t know what’s going on with me.

Em: Allegedly, the hotel connected to, um, the red light district through a bunch of underground tunnels in the hotel. Although–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –I’m unsure of that. I-it sounds like there’s two camps historically where some people are like, “Oh, there were underground tunnels here, and they all led to the, you know, red light district.” There’s another camp that says, “Oh, they do– There are underground tunnels, but they didn’t exist until many years later when the red light district was kind of dying down.”

Christine: Oh.

Em: So I don’t know– I don’t know.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: E-everyone had a different opinion on all my sources. So um, but it was very, very swanky here. They literally had chefs from Europe come move in, uh, to cook at the hotel. The hotel had one of the very first Otis elevators in the country. Um–

Christine: Ooh!

Em: –and then– This has to not be real. This cannot be real. But–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –a lot of sources I read said that it’s rumored that during opening day, there was a literal champagne waterfall going over the front steps. Like just like it was the most like Great Gatsby party where it was just pouring down alcohol because–

Christine: Oh, hell yeah.

Em: –everyone’s having so much fun. Um, also apparently–

Christine: Well, maybe that thing where they put all the glasses out–

Em: [groans]

Christine: –and then they pour champagne so everyone can take a glass, you know.

Em: I’ve always wanted to see one of those in real life but not touch it, because I’m like, “I’ll touch the one glass where everything Jenga falls, and then it’s just shattered shards of glass everywhere.”

Christine: And then it’s sticky, and it’s gonna be a dis– and you don’t even drink alcohol, so. [laughs]

Em: It wouldn’t even be worth it. Yeah, exactly. No thanks. Um–

Christine: But to see it would be an experience.

Em: I would love to take a picture of one in real time and be like, “I can check this off my list.”

Christine: Agreed.

Em: But that’s as far as I need to go. Um, and also apparently at the same party, President, uh, Teddy Roosevelt was there, so he had a blast it sounds like.

Christine: Nice.

Em: Shortly after the hotel opened, the hotel was then sold to a guy named George Wingfield, and this George guy was one of the most powerful men in the entire state. By 30–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And this was in the 1900s. By 30, he was a multi-millionaire. Um, by the way, $1 million then was $36 million today– over $36 million today. And–

Christine: Oh, so he’s like, “$11 million hotel? Please.”

Em: Yeah. He’s like, “I’ll just– That’s for breakfast.” But if–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –he was a multi-millionaire by then, that means he probably had at least $75 million t-today.

Christine: Jesus Christ, dude.

Em: He owned most of the banks, mines, and ranches in Goldfield. He owned, I think, more banks in Nevada than anybody else did in the state. Um, and he had his hands in everything. He found ways to make his businesses continue to grow no matter what the business was. There’s actually a former employee of his, I think it was an assistant of his, that was quoted saying, “George was not a mayor, but he was more than the mayor. He was kind of like a governor, you might call it. He had banks. He had prostitutes. And these prostitutes would look for the miners where the go– he– The prostitutes would learn from the miners where the gold mine was, and the next day, they would tell George where he could buy stock.” So he was also like–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –using sex workers–

Christine: He had like a whole ring of– Oh my god. Okay. This is like a TV show.

Em: Yeah. He had sex–

Christine: This is like Ozark or some shit.

Em: –sex workers that were like double agents basically, like getting intel from him so that way he could have even more business later. It’s wild.

Christine: Right. Right, right. Right, right.

Em: So– [sighs]

Christine: This is nothing like Ozark. I’ve seen Ozark. I don’t know why I’m saying it’s just like Ozark.

Em: N–

Christine: It’s, it’s like a show like that in my head.

Em: I believe you. I’ve also never seen it. So as far as you’re telling me, you’re right – it’s exactly like Ozark. Shot for shot.

Christine: Yeah, it is. That’s right.

Em: Um, [chuckles] so of course all of his other purchases–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: Uh, with all of his other purchases, George built, um, the Goldfield Hotel as soon as he could. He– Or, he, he bought it as soon as he could. Sorry, ’cause he– It got sold to him. But like all of his other banks and like all his other ranches and everything, he saw this as just a delicious little opportunity, swiped it up, and he, he bought it, I think, for what would be like $15 or $20 million today.

Christine: Oh, wow. Okay.

Em: So it was worth $11, and then he paid–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –he went over price like almost double.

Christine: Maybe it had like proven its value, you know.

Em: I mean, when you got champagne coming out of the floor and the richest guys there, he’s gonna be like, “I need this.”

Christine: [laughs] I mean, when the floor is gonna be sticky for the rest of eternity–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –’cause you dumped champagne all over it–

Em: That is such an excellent point. I cannot imagine the cleaning staff.

Christine: Yes, thank you.

Em: And like they didn’t have–

Christine: How nightmare.

Em: They didn’t have Fabuloso back then. I’m just gonna say that. They had–

Christine: Ugh!

Em: –river water to clean it up. I’m done.

Christine: They had a s– They had a– They had river water? Please.

Em: I, I mean, like they also– that– There was carpet in there. Like how are you cleaning this?

Christine: Oh no.

Em: I can’t even talk about it.

Christine: Oh no, oh no.

Em: It makes me want to throw up. I can’t imagine.

Christine: Let’s stop talking about it.

Em: Um, besides being so successful, um–

Christine: I think time traveling isn’t for us.

Em: What’s that?

Christine: [chuckles] I think time traveling isn’t for us.

Em: I think you’re right because, um, the second I imagine myself in any other location, about ten problems arise, and I’m like, “Uhhh…”

Christine: Yeah, immediate.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Immediate.

Em: I think I can’t do it. I think I want to so bad. And for all we know, I am the world’s first time traveler, just hasn’t happened in this timeline yet, you know, but–

Christine: Could be.

Em: God, I really want it to be true. But I also– There– It would be one of those things where I take a long drag of a cigarette after every travel, and I’d go–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –[in a raspy voice with a Wild West accent] “That one was rough too,” you know. Um–

Christine: [laughs] Like, [in Wild West accent] “What– I don’t know what I thought would happen.”

Em: [laughs] [in Wild West accent] “It’s, it’s, it’s not much, but it’s honest work.” Um–

Christine: Mm. [laughs]

Em: Besides being so successful, George Wingfield was known to also be, um, evil. So he regularly–

Christine: Oh! [laughs]

Em: –regularly cheated on his wife.

Christine: Sure. Oh.

Em: One of the women that he spent most of his time– He was evil in other reasons, but especially in his marriage. He seemed to be incredibly unfaithful. And one of the women he spent most of his time with was this woman named Elizabeth, who, according to different sources, she may or may not have been a sex worker, and that’s how they met.

Christine: Mm.

Em: But– Or he might have just been hooking up with her at his own hotel. I don’t know. Um–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: But she eventually became pregnant, and that’s where the sources are like, “Oh, well, maybe ’cause she’s a sex worker, and it could have been anyone’s baby,” but it was also like guaranteed to be George’s baby. So it sounds like she wasn’t sleeping with anyone else.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So assuming it’s George’s baby– I mean, George assumed it was his fucking baby. And–

Christine: Well, especially if he’s like pay– If he has like millions and millions of dollars, like he can afford to keep her somewhere and not like– Pretty Woman style even if she is a sex worker, right?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like I don’t think that precludes them having a relationship.

Em: No, exactly.

Christine: Yeah. Like a, like a monogamous relationship.

Em: Exactly. Well, George was terrified that it was gonna get out that he was cheating on his wife and had got another girl pregnant. S–

Christine: I love when they realize that a little too late.

Em: [laughs] He’s like, “Uh, what do you mean?”

Christine: “I don’t want anyone to know.” [laughs]

Em: Well, uh, apparently in the hotel, there’s one room, room 109, and that is where he started having Elizabeth stay while she was pregnant. And it very quickly turned into kind of a host– definitely a hostage situation–

Christine: Oh no.

Em: –um, where it sounds like originally he was like, “Oh, let’s just go stay here. No, don’t go home. Let me just take care of you. “

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: “I’ll have all the people like cater.” And then when she started kind of getting, I guess, mouthy about like, “I have to go home. Like I want to see my family,” eventually, he chained her to a radiator – yikes–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –in that room for the whole pregnancy.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And it’s said that, um, he gave her just enough food and water to keep her alive until the baby was born. This story–

Christine: Jesus.

Em: I am curious– I mean, I guess if you have enough money you can pay off probably anybody. But I do wonder– Like the staff had to know what was going on. Well, anyway, we don’t get any information on that.

Christine: I mean, maybe that’s who reported this eventually.

Em: Sure.

Christine: Like that’s how we know–

Em: Yeah, yeah.

Christine: –what happened.

Em: Um, and also the– I’m just gonna use, um, previous experience, let’s say that, because given so many goddamn stories about gold mine hotels, I’m assuming there’s also some nefarious acts going on here, and he could have–

Christine: Right. Right, right, right, right. It’s like Wild West type style.

Em: –had guards or something, or–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –he could have found someone to help him out.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Anyway, she’s chained to the radiator in that room. And once she gave birth, Wingfield allegedly had her strangled and then brought down through those tunnels to the mines and threw her down an abandoned shaft along–

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: –with the baby.

Christine: Why didn’t he just kill them then?

Em: Great fucking question.

Christine: Why did he have to make her give– I mean, I– Like not that I’m saying either one is good obviously, but like why even like keep her hostage and then wait for her to give birth and then– Like it’s just so strange. Like why not just kill her?

Em: You’re– And the baby. Like I mean, you’re a 1,000%– It’s–

Christine: Well, killing her would kill the baby, right? Like if she’s pregnant– I– It’s just so weird to me. Like why would you–

Em: Yeah. No, you’re asking–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –questions that, um, every single source I’ve been looking at has been asking as well. ’Cause it’s like–

Christine: Gotcha. Okay. Gotcha.

Em: [chuckles] We’re all aware that like this seems like not the world’s best planning–

Christine: Doesn’t make sense, yeah.

Em: –in terms of crime.

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Em: Um, especially like– Yeah. ’Cause then you also could have just killed her the day you found out she was pregnant and then–

Christine: Exactly. It doesn’t, it doesn’t make it any easier for you as a–

Em: –and nobody would know–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: [sighs] Anyway, Christine, you are on to something. Um, so we don’t know, by the way, if this story even really happened. Um–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: That’s just the rumor of what happened at this location. It’s like the big famous story here. But there is an argument that in the ‘80s, um, the hotel owner was trying to like engage interest in the hotel and ended up saying a bunch of stories about what happened here. And we don’t know if this is one of those stories or if this predates her.

Christine: Mm.

Em: We don’t know. Um, but it has– It is a notorious– Uh, people treat it like it’s real. Like all the other ones–

Christine: Right.

Em: –people are kind of wishy-washy about, but this one seems to be pretty solidified in town.

Christine: Okay. Okay.

Em: Others say if this really did happen, then karma followed him pretty quickly because in 1932, most of his banks collapsed all at once, nearly destroying the entire state’s economy. Yikes. So he was hated all over again for different reasons.

Christine: That was the Great Depression.

Em: Yeah, yeah. Uh, so I guess the karma hit everybody. Whoopsies.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: In 1910– This is only eight years into my story, by the way. Eight years into this gold rush. Remember, um, very quickly it went from nobody living there to 30,000 people. Eight years later, the mines were coming up pretty empty. People started leaving, and the town of Goldfield was immediately suffering, and the population went down to only 5,000 people. So–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –that’s like 80% of people left within eight years of it even existing.

Christine: Jesus.

Em: 100– Basically 100% of people showed up. 80% of them left before ten years hit in this town.

Christine: Damn.

Em: So by 1920, the population was at 1,500. I think today it’s at like 400. Um, and then a fire destroyed a lot of what was left in the town. There was only 1,500 people there. So then even more people left. And the hotel basically stayed around until 1945, but, um, it was in such a dilapidated area that it became a cheap motel through World War II. And then after 1945, the hotel was abandoned.

Christine: Mm.

Em: Um, and in 19– in the ‘80s, when this one woman picked it up, it was also added to the National Register of Historic Places. And it was then purchased, uh, through the years by multiple people who all had the same plan to like restore this hotel to its big grandeur, but every–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –every single time, it’s failed. And to this day–

Christine: Ooh.

Em: –it’s literally in a ghost town. Like lit– Like it’s like, like what you imagine a ghost town. Like I, I, I’m kind of confused. If someone lives near this area, can you write in?

Christine: I want to look it up.

Em: Is this– Like is this like a tourist attraction because it’s a ghost town? Or do people just walk through this area of town and act like it’s a normal part of your town? ’Cause it looks literally like–

Christine: Right.

Em: –like a– like Pioneertown in California, if you’ve been there, or like Bodie.

Christine: Oh. [laughs]

Em: Like it looks abandoned. The whole town looks fucking abandoned. Um, and I can’t tell if this is just like a little–

Christine: What’s the name of the restaura– or, the hotel?

Em: Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Goldfield.

Em: And next to it is like a high school, but the high school is like literally like beyond abandoned for the last 50 years. Like it looks–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –like no one’s ever t– It looks like a movie set. It looks like a movie set.

Christine: Weird. Oh my god.

Em: Yeah. It’s very creepy.

Christine: Ooh, creepy. Eugh.

Em: So do people– I mean, it says people still live there, but I’m like, do you just live amongst the wreckage? [chuckles] I don’t know. I don’t know how else to put it, but what’s going on over there, everybody? Um, in 200–

Christine: They have a Tesla Cybertruck tour available.

Em: That’s the opposite of what I thought you were–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: That’s so– That’s– I– It was jarring already. That really just like bl–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –Black Mirror-ed it. [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: So weird.

Christine: Just Black Mirror, yeah.

Em: Um, a few years ago, the building was on sale again, and um, unfortunately, because the town keeps getting disappointed with people promising it’s gonna be restored–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –the town has very little faith that it will ever get back to its initial glory.

Christine: Aw.

Em: Um, but what did save the hotel from being com– This is uh, this is where I need you to read between the lines and see why maybe um, you’re gonna get part two. What did save the hotel from being completely obsolete, completely destroyed, was that in 2004, something very important to you and me happened. Zac Bagans decided that he was gonna try his hand at a documentary.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: And it was called the original Ghost Adventures. Do you know about this?

Christine: I don’t.

Em: You will. Um, so in 2004, before Ghost Adventures was ever a TV show, much like Catfish on MTV–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: –it’s–

Christine: I was about to say this is like Nev from Catfish vibes of like making a documentary into a TV show. Oh my god.

Em: It started as one documentary with him and Nick and Aaron.

Christine: I had no idea.

Em: And because he lives in Nevada, I guess he knew about this town.

Christine: Oh, duh.

Em: And so he decided that he was gonna investigate the Goldfield Hotel. And when that documentary came out, it brought so much interest from other paranormal enthusiasts that now the hotel, in its own way, has had its own resurgence of tourists, purely because they want to keep investigating this building. So it is still–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: –abandoned and not a hotel, but it is a building that people like to explore.

Christine: Right.

Em: Um, and in some ways, that’s– And in some ways, people are very excited that there’s interest in the town, but the building keeps like getting vandalized and investigated by people who like aren’t being professional or respectful.

Christine: Right. They’re not like taking care of it. Right.

Em: So it’s kind of– It’s a half and half, a give and take that like at least people now really care about this hotel, but–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –not in the way that they used to. So as for the ghosts, not including the documentary that is Ghost Adventures, the main ghost in this building is in room 109. It is Elizabeth maybe still stuck in that room. People hear–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –a woman crying in this room. They hear a baby crying in the mine shafts.

Christine: Ooh.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: No! No, that’s horrid.

Em: People say that they s– uh, also hear crying uncontrollably, um, in this room and when that happens it starts getting colder and colder–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –and no matter what you do, you cannot get the room warm.

Christine: No.

Em: In this room, cameras won’t work. Um, they will totally malfunction. Or if you take any pictures at all, they’ll all come out weirdly blurry. A l–

Christine: Mm.

Em: Some people have gotten pictures of like weird shadows in the room when nothing is there. People have even seen Elizabeth here in a white dress. Um, she does not engage with people, so hopefully that means that this is just residual and not like she’s stuck there.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: People also hear metal clanging in here that’s very similar to the sound of chains against a radiator. Yikes.

Christine: Ooh.

Em: So that’s it for Elizabeth. People also have encountered George Win– Wingfield here. People smell cigar smoke through the building and often find l– This is crazy. They smell cigar smoke through the building and find literal piles of hot ashes on the floor as if he’d just walked by while smoking. Like hot piles of ashes–

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: –not like, oh, someone was smoking here three weeks ago.

Christine: That is so weird. Like, so he has an endless tobacco stash–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –on the other side? You know like–

Em: And also this building’s never catching on fire even though it’s like just rubble?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Crazy.

Christine: That’s so weird.

Em: People sense a, uh, a dark presence by the stairs. Some have seen a dark shadow standing there, and they assume that it’s George because who else is a dark entity here or–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –has dark energy? There’s also prankster ghosts here that, um– Allegedly, it’s like two or three little kids who run around, and they sneak up on you and tap your back–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –and when you turn around, they vanish, and you hear children laughing. Yuck.

Christine: Yuck.

Em: Yuck. Um, also poltergeist activity is reported in these parts of the hotel. Hopefully, it’s the kids and not something more malevolent, but–

Christine: Please. Please.

Em: –it sounds like things are getting moved around and thrown and all that with– And it’s always accompanied by laughter. I– [sighs] I really hope they’re just laughing ’cause they’re having fun and not because like–

Christine: It's those little hooligans. Let’s just tell ourselves that. [laughs]

Em: You’re totally right. I have to. I have to. Um–

Christine: I have to. I must.

Em: There is a ghost there that I know– There is no context, but he is called the Stabber, and he–

Christine: Ahh! Sorry. [laughs]

Em: –maybe was–

Christine: That was so alarming. I don’t like that.

Em: Yeah. He, he may be a former dining room employee, um, because he holds a large knife. That’s, that’s the fucking reason. Not like he’s a bad guy with a knife, just, “Oh, he’s a– He’s staff.” Um, but he also could be something much more sinister–

Christine: Then why do we call him the Stabber?

Em: –because he holds a fucking large knife. And he’s known to linger in the Gold Room, which I guess was the original dining hall. But, um, he’s also said to run at you and try to stab you. But like people will see a pe– see a guy run at them with a knife, try to stab them, and in the last moment, he will disappear like right before he makes contact with you.

Christine: And then they’re like, “Oh, he must work in the kitchen.” Like–

Em: [chuckles] Right.

Christine: –“Really? You don’t think he’s like just a serial killer? Okay. Sure.”

Em: Yeah. Like if I were– Can you imagine if someone’s just like holding you at gunpoint and you’re like, “Oh, that’s just the dog.” It’s like, “What? That’s–“

Christine: [laughs] “He must be the butler.” What?

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Well, so that’s the Stabber. So good luck if you’re ever there. I– Nobody’s–

Christine: Terrible.

Em: –seems to have made contact with him.

Christine: That’s good.

Em: Like I watched a bunch of like ghost hunting YouTube videos and things like that. Nobody’s ever– I don’t know where the Stabber comes from.

Christine: [in a deep voice] “Stab Aaron.”

Em: I–

Christine: “Stab Aaron now.”

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: “Stab Aaron.” [laughs]

Em: Okay, I can’t wait to eventually, not today, talk about, um, that documentary because Zac was still fucking normal. ’Cause it was like he didn’t have a brand yet.

Christine: He didn’t have his like affect?

Em: He was– He– I mean, he was still like there were parts where he was still like a bit of a douche, but he was also a 27-year-old man. But he was a 27-year-old, and he had frosted tips. It’s hilarious. Um–

Christine: Oh, 2004.

Em: But he was just like– And he had no muscles. He was just like a scrawny little man–

Christine: Uh?

Em: –who just wanted to go see a ghost.

Christine: We just got sued. We finally got sued. That’s what did it: “he had no muscles.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, Aaron had a full head of hair. Like every–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: It’s very crazy. It’s very crazy to look at. Okay, enough of that. So the– As for the other ghost stuff: um, footsteps, voices, knocks, shadow figures darting around, figures appear watching you from the windows. There was, um, a shadow of a man leaning against one of the walls in the hallway, and if you approach him, apparently he’ll vanish.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: My favorite type of ghost.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, there are people who smell perfume. There’s people who’ve gotten shoved, especially by the stairs. There are apparitions in the old elevator. Um, to try preserving it, like the hotel, the town has hosted tours there every now and then, but the locals refuse to be in the building alone or after dark because they have all had some sort of experience.

Christine: Hm.

Em: And a lot of psychics have come in and claimed that this building’s a portal. Um, two spirits said to be former hotel guests, um, are also in this building, and we don’t know a lot about them except that they were two staff members who, at separate times, died by suicide.

Christine: Mm. [sighs]

Em: Um, but there was a, a woman who worked here who, I guess, hanged herself, and now–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –people see the spirit of a woman with burns on her neck.

Christine: [sucks in a breath]

Em: Um, there is also a man who jumped off the roof at one point–

Christine: Oh…

Em: –and he’s also seen walking through the hotel.

Christine: Jesus.

Em: Both are said to just wander the halls, but then there was one source that said if you look at either of them in the eye, they’ll scream at you.

Christine: Agh! [chuckles]

Em: Um–

Christine: No, no, no, no, no. [laughs]

Em: It’s a firm no for me.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: And then this is very, very sad. There might be a third employee– or I don’t even know about employee, but a third person there who died by suicide because, um, in 2017, a man drove to this hotel, did die by suicide, and he left a note, saying that he wanted to be the next ghost to haunt the hotel.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: So.

Christine: In 2017? Oh my god. What the fuck, dude?

Em: So there could be–

Christine: No, that’s terrible.

Em: –three people instead of– three ghosts instead of two that–

Christine: [sighs] Jesus.

Em: –kind of fall into that category. But I haven’t heard of anyone seeing him, but, uh–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –apparently that is something that happened. So yikes.

Christine: Jesus, that’s dark.

Em: Um, yes, it is. And–

Christine: Is that the first time we’ve had– Sorry, there is a lag, and I feel like it’s making my commentary seem like very abrupt, and I’m sorry. Um–

Em: You’re good.

Christine: But I– Have we ever had a hotel where somebody– or even any place where somebody planned to be a ghost there?

Em: I don’t think so. I think that’s the first time.

Christine: Like I, I think that’s a first.

Em: I think– Yeah, I’m shocked that we have firsts anymore. Um–

Christine: Same. [laughs]

Em: [chuckles] But yeah, no, it is, uh– It’s odd that there’s– And it feels so modern ’cause it’s 2017. It’s like that ha–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –felt– It feels a little too real, but.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um, but yeah, that is a first, I think. So I, I did watch a few TV shows, um, and a few YouTube episodes of people going here. Um, the Ghost Hunters been here, not Ghost Adventurers. TAPS went here. Um, funny enough, the owner at the time, who did not believe in ghosts, he actually asked TAPS to come to the hotel on its 100th anniversary to see if TAPS could find anything. And um, they did see shadows moving at the end of the hallway, and they got some pretty creepy EVPs of something saying, “Get out,” and “Where did the bitch go?” Yikes.

Christine: Oh!

Em: Later, they also had, um– I guess all the male investigators left, and it was just a female investigator left. Um, and she said, “Okay, well, all the boys are gone. It’s just us now.” And she got a female voice saying–

Christine: “That’s where the bitch went.”

Em: –“Can we go home?” [laughs] “That’s where the bitch went.”

Christine: Oh. [laughs]

Em: “That’s where the bitch went.”

Christine: [laughs] I mean–

Em: Well, later on, when she was alone, she got female voices speaking to her. One of them said, “Can we go home now?” Which, like I love that she’s like–

Christine: Aw.

Em: –“Thank god that those men are fucking gone. Can we please get out of here?”

Christine: [laughs] “Time to leave.”

Em: She’s like, “I’m so sick of them.” Um, I love that in life and death, women are just like, “Oh, finally.” Um–

Christine: “Get out.” [laughs]

Em: So a, a weird feeling– There’s a weird feeling by the elevator that they have– um, that TAPS has. And then they find out– After they had this weird feeling, they find out historically that I guess a man was allegedly thrown to his death exactly where they were standing.

Christine: Oh.

Em: Um, yuck. And then an owner in the 1980s claimed to hear rattling in the basement. So when he went down there near the elevator shaft to see what was rattling, he found human fucking remains, so.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: This, uh, however could have been, again, the same owner in the 1980s who started all the other rumors. We, we are not sure. But anyway, so the tours, uh, were once offered. I don’t think the tours exist anymore, or if they do, it’s like an annual special that the, the town puts on. But Goldfield as a whole is the spooky ghost town, and there’s many other spirits there. So in a lot of the YouTube videos I saw, even I think in the original Ghost Adventures documentary, they weren’t going for just the hotel. They were trying to see all of Goldfield, um–

Christine: Oh, okay.

Em: –which helped because some of the videos were like two hours long, and I only had to watch a chunk, and I was like, “Thank god.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Um, but there were many YouTube videos of people going here. My favorite was – I just want to give them a shout-out – um, a YouTube show called Ghost Club Paranormal, and they had a lot of direct responses from the spirit box. Uh, they h– One investigator saw a person walk through a wall while she was there. They talked to a little girl named Olivia, who literally through the spirit box said, “I’m only seven. What happened to me?” And then when they turned the flashlights off, she said, “I like the lights.” Like, “Keep the lights on.”

Christine: No…

Em: Um, I don’t know her story, but a lot of people have said that there’s a little girl that runs around there, so I guess the people who own the building have just named her Olivia.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: And there’s also a– They say, “non-human.” I guess they’re afraid to say the word “demonic” in the house. And so they just say “a non-human, uh, entity” is in the basement that happens–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –to scare Olivia. I guess they found that out through investigations.

Christine: Oh. [sighs]

Em: And once this non-human thing was mentioned, the spirit box said, “I scare people. Run now.”

Christine: No! [laughs]

Em: Yikes.

Christine: No.

Em: Um, someone who actually– Well, I won’t even say that part yet. I’ll wait, I’ll wait ’til next week. But, um, once in the basem– Once the– this, uh– Ghost Club Paranormal, once they were in the basement, the spirit box said, “I can scare you. They mean you harm.” And then I assume talking about the equipment, they got the spirit box asking about the lights. They said, “Can you move location? Look to the right. Join us.” Eugh.

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: Um, and then moments later, they heard one of their names bit– get said, and then they heard scurrying towards them. And then they checked the Ovilus–

Christine: The s– Oh! Agh!

Em: –and it said– The investigator– Literally, this is the craz-craziest part ’cause they heard– One of their names was Mandy. They heard the name “Mandy” and then scurrying and then looked at the Ovilus, and “Mandy” was exactly what had just been said.

Christine: No.

Em: Horrifying. Horrifying. Um–

Christine: No.

Em: –they also would feel things next to them, and the spirit box would say, “Standing beside you.” Um, they brought balloons and lights for Olivia, and she was very interactive.

Christine: Aww.

Em: On a recorder, the EVP– Um, they got EVPs of a voice responding to them but like mimicking their voice. And that’s happened with a few– That happened with a few investigators where like they would be talking, and then they would play the digital recorder back, and it would sound like they continued speaking after that.

Christine: No.

Em: It sounded like their fucking voice, but the last half of the sentence was not them.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: It was somebody else pretending to be them.

Christine: That’s happened at the, um, Sallie House to some–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Remember those investigators? It wasn’t, it wasn’t Scott and Forrest, and it wasn’t the people with the blinds and all that ’cause those were crazy too. But, um, the one that I’m thinking of is where they heard a person in their group like ask a question I think–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: –on the recording, but then they were like, “Wait, she wasn’t even in the room,” or like, “She wasn’t–“ There was something very clearly where like you could see on the video or whatever that she wasn’t speaking, but like in–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: –on the recording, she like asked a question that nobody heard in the moment, which is like–

Em: So creepy.

Christine: –“What the fucking hell?”

Em: And in these recorders, uh, I– There was at least two or three teams I saw where this happened. And, um, there– It like– They were the clearest EVPs I’d ever heard in my life. It sounded as clear as me talking to you right now–

Christine: Jesus.

Em: –but imagine like you then find out I’m not actually speaking. It’s a ghost mimicking me.

Christine: Oh my god. Forget it.

Em: Oh, it was horrific. So, um, anyway, and then, of course, Ghost Adventures has been there, but, um, I’m not gonna talk about that today. [chuckles]

Christine: Ahh! Listen, I was gonna say we should do a whole commentary on that, and then I was like, “Wait a minute. Wait a minute, silly goose.”

Em: We just, we just might, so.

Christine: We just might. Oh my god. Remember when we got our Halloween live stream shut down because we were watching Ghost Adventures? [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Yeah, I know. And I was like, “oh, well.”

Christine: I was like restarting it.

Em: “Now what do we do?”

Christine: And we were like, “Why isn’t it working?” And then it was like, “You have been copyright r– like mar– banned or whatever.” And we were like, “Oh, I see. I see.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Good times.

Em: Horrible, horrible, horrible stuff. Um, and also horrible of Patreon to shut us down like that. That was crazy.

Christine: No, that was YouTube. I was so mad ’cause we were streaming through YouTube, and YouTube kept being like–

Em: That’s right.

Christine: –“You are not allowed to do this,” and I was like, “Fuck off.”

Em: That’s right. My apologies, Patreon. It was somebody, and I remember being mad in the moment, and I didn’t care who it was. I was just like, “I just want to watch Ghost Adventures.” But you’re right.

Christine: They’re all at fault.

Em: Anyway, that is part one of the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: [claps] Would you go there?

Em: Yeah. Would you go there?

Christine: I’m a little creep– I’m a little creeped out.

Em: Oh!

Christine: I think I’m creeped out about the thing in the basement.

Em: Well, duh.

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] Well, duh.

Em: I think the second a place has a basement, it’s certainly the last place I want to be in that house.

Christine: I think I just don’t like non-human.

Em: I certainly don’t. And then the fact that even the people who own it are scared to say “demonic” be–

Christine: They don’t want to– Yeah. I don’t– Like that gives me like Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell vibes. Like– [laughs]

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: Like don’t ask, don’t tell–

Em: There’s actually just a gay down there, just judging you.

Christine: Spirit– [laughs] He’s just still in the closet. Okay? Leave him alone. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, no, but it was, uh– And I really– I, I, I don’t know if anyone– We have no connection to them, but Ghost Club Paranormal. If you ever want to watch, um, a YouTube series, they were lovely, so.

Christine: Yeah. I mean, and I do, so I will be – “Ghlost” Club– And I always do. GCP. Ghost Paranormal.

Em: GCP. Yep. Hm.

Christine: Um, and then you can watch Pip and Pals when you’re scared and you need a little, uh, kid’s show–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –to, to– [laughs]

Em: Exactly right.

Christine: Uh, what’s it called? Sorry. Ghost Club Paranormal. All right. I’m just gonna type that in here, so I don’t forget. Ghost clip art? Sure, that works, too. Um–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Wow. Good job, Em.

Em: Thank you.

Christine: Where nowadays are you sourcing your stories? ’Cause I feel like– I, I really like them. I feel like you’ve been doing some fun ones from–

Em: Oh?

Christine: –the Wild West and Gold Rush, but, um–

Em: Yeah, I don’t– I– Usually, I just type in a location. Like I, I typed in like France. I was like “most haunted locations in France,” “best–“

Christine: Oh, interesting.

Em: “biggest paranormal cases in France.” Like– Or I just pick a location. Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: And then, um, I don’t know why Nevada. That one– I didn’t look up Nevada. That one stumbled up–

Christine: Maybe that was a–

Em: –slid across my desk.

Christine: Did you see the Ghost Adventures– Oh, yeah. Yeah, that’s how I always say it. I’m like, “It went a–“

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: ’Cause I don’t fucking know how I found most of my stories, so. I’m just always curious.

Em: No, most of them– Like I tried to look up– Some of them are really hard ’cause I want to do more international stories, but un– unless– Can somebody also, um, please write below if you know how to do this? There’s some places I want to cover things, and every source is in a totally different language. And I, I– The translation is too choppy when I just–

Christine: Just tran– Oh.

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: I mean, you can just use– There are like, uh, plugins. Like, um, do you use Chrome?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: There are like lots of Chrome plugins, like, um, translation plugins and stuff–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –if you ever want to. I mean, I–

Em: Ok.

Christine: Um.

Em: ’Cause I, I would like to– I– I’m not trying to like [chuckles] not cover other stories, but some of them have been really hard to find– I’m just like, “I can’t do it,” so I would love to look that up.

Christine: Well, just add a French class to your weekly rotation of extracurriculars. [chuckles]

Em: [sighs] I’m already trying to become bilingual. I don’t know about trilingual just yet, but.

Christine: That's– Oh my god.

Em: I’m getting–

Christine: Maybe we’ll podcast in sign language. Then we would like–

Em: I’m getting like shockingly good at sign language.

Christine: –be quiet the whole time.

Em: I like– I, um, was just telling Allison. I was like, “I didn’t realize how quickly I would start saying like full sentences in ASL and everything.”

Christine: How cool is that?

Em: I know. Yeah. So.

Christine: Is Al taking that too?

Em: Mm-mmm. No, I– She just got back, and I’ve been taking it for a while now so.

Christine: Oh, gotcha. Okay. Okay.

Em: But, um–

Christine: ’Cause Blaise and I wanted to take it for years, and I’m like, “We could have a secret langu–“ Not a secret language.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: But, “a secret language in front of like my parents or like Leona.” [laughs]

Em: No, it’s, uh– Yeah, that would be useful in f– and but then, uh, Leona would figure it out in five seconds, I’m sure.

Christine: Immediately learn it. Yeah, correct.

Em: Yeah. Um, no, I just, uh– I always wanted to do it, and then every person I said it to, they’re like, “Oh, I’ve always wanted to do it.” And then I was like, “Well, come with me.”

Christine: Yeah. “prove it.”

Em: And now it’s like a whole class where like half the people are people I just shoved into the, the room with me.

Christine: I love that everyone’s taking it with you. That’s nice.

Em: Yeah. Um, yeah, it’s– Anyway, tell me a horrible story please.

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Christine’s Story – Robert Lee Yates aka The Grocery Bag Killer

Christine: Well, I think we’re back to, to it, back to it.

Em: I think so too.

Christine: I’m gonna read you a story that– I was gonna say I’m gonna read you a chapter, but that’s not quite how it’s going ’cause I actually– Well, what happened was I wrote about this guy, Robert Lee Yates, the Grocery Bag Killer in our second book. I’ve been working on notes for like two different stories that have been taking me a very long time, and they’re driving me nuts. And so this week, I thought, “I’m gonna go back and research something I’ve already researched,” which is the Grocery Bag Killer. I do not know how I’ve not covered this on the podcast because, I know I say this a lot, but it is one of those where I’m like, “I swear I’ve told this before. Like, I swear I’ve told this before.” So if you recognize it, tell me.

Em: [sighs] We know it well.

Christine: Yeah. And so, I’ve looked it up every which way on the website. I can’t find it. I even looked up like other podcasts we’ve been on to see if I brought it to another show. I–

Em: Mm.

Christine: I just cannot figure out– But maybe I just remember writing it, which–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –wow, what a shock. [laughs]

Em: I mean, I’ve had that before–

Christine: Like maybe I actually remember–

Em: –where I was like, “I know I’ve covered this,” and it was like, no, I just covered it in the book.

Christine: Yeah, I researched it and covered it in writing. Yeah, exactly. So that could be what’s happening. But if you recognize it, please tell me. Um, and I, I apologize if anyone’s familiar, but it’s, it’s a crazy story. And because it was in the book, it was pretty short, so I went back and did like a full research on it to find stuff that, you know, hadn’t been mentioned in the book.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, but yeah, so shout-out to that. This is the story of Robert Lee Yates, the Grocery Bag Killer. And this is our Spokane chap– in our Spokane chapter of book two.

Em: Cool.

Christine: So Yates was bor– Oh, and I’m also gonna add, um– There were only two in this one, little asides from the two of us.

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: But I also like– [chuckles] I need you to have a couple more asides–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –’cause I think there were parts in the book where we didn’t know what to say. And then I took–

Em: Sure.

Christine: I found o– an old version of the– of my chapters where I had actually written an aside, and then we removed it because it was like–

Em: Not funny?

Christine: It was like distasteful a little bit or like it just felt like a little off. And so like going through, I’m like, “Man, I– We r–“ I think this was when we really struggled to like add any sort of, um–

Em: Certainly yours–

Christine: –notes.

Em: –were the harder ones to have asides for. ’Cause like even if we’re–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –just talking at least like something gets brought up that like we can, we can do a callback f–

Christine: Like I spill a drink, and it’s like, “Oh, now we can talk about that.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Or like Gio barks or like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Exactly, exactly.

Em: When it’s just dry text, it’s like, “Oh, how do I– What do I say?” Yeah.

Christine: You’re looking at every word like, “Something funny better come to me any moment.”

Em: [chuckles] Yeah.

Christine: Uh, so we’ll see what, what we come up with today. But–

Em: Excellent.

Christine: –let’s go. This is the story of Robert Lee Yates. He was born in Spokane in 1952, um, of course, had a traumatic family history. So his grandmother had actually murdered his grandfather. Uh, and this was like a very much intergenerational story and also intergenerational trauma in the family.

Em: Sure.

Christine: Um, his grandmother had murdered his grandfather with an axe.

Em: Oh my. Jesus.

Christine: And it was– Yeah, very bloody, very, very, uh, dramatic. And the psychologist who was, um, interviewed said that, uh, he believed this told a story– like began a story for Robert Lee Yates like, uh, to be fearful of women–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –in a way of like “they have what you want, but they’re very dangerous,” basically. [chuckles]

Em: Sure, sure. “Don’t trust Grandma.” Yeah.

Christine: Yeah, don’t trust Grandma. Like this is one of the spots where I’m like, we should have put an– We should have put an aside because it’s just a weird quote. Women– He learned, “Women are very dangerous. They have what you want, but they’re very dangerous people.” I mean, it sounds like a Trump quote. Like I don’t even know what that s–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It barely makes sense, but–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –apparently, I wrote it in the book.

Em: You did great.

Christine: Thank you. A forensic psychologist, the same one actually, also said, “In many ways, Yates’s relationship with his father though was completely normal.” So there was that.

Em: Okay.

Christine: And I mention that because usually it’s thought that even one positive role model is sufficient to stop people from getting, as this psychiatrist said, “psychiatric– seriously psychiatrically disturbed.” So basically he’s saying usually if someone has a healthy relationship with at least one parent, they’re like prevented from becoming like deeply psychologically traumatized or, or disturbed.

Em: Right.

Christine: But that is not the case here because this fella is deeply disturbed–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –whether he liked his dad or not, you know.

Em: So the stats did not work in his favor there.

Christine: Yeah. One time– He’s the, he’s the exception to the rule. Yeah.

Em: Okay.

Christine: So yikes. At age six, there’s a little bit more trauma that gets discussed briefly, and we don’t know much about it, but it is worth mentioning because we are discussing how somebody becomes like this. At age six, uh, Yates experienced a traumatic event when he was allegedly a– sexually assaulted by a neighbor boy.

Em: Oh.

Christine: And he never reported this to police or even his family. Um, it’s only like later years that we hear about this, so we don’t really have any details, but if– You know, one can imagine that would definitely add to, to the psychi– psychiatrically disturbed element of this guy.

Em: Oh, yeah.

Christine: So we fast forward to 1975. Um, Yates is 23 years old, and he’s hired as a corrections officer at the Washington State Penitentiary. And those who knew him thought he was a good guy, like a family man. I mean, I– In the book, I even called him “a pillar of the community.” So–

Em: Of course.

Christine: –you know what that means?

Em: I know what that means.

Christine: They considered him an introvert. Um, he spent a lot of time alone. He liked to be outside. He was just like a normal dude. Um, in July 1975, uh, he was doing one of his nice outdoorsy hikes, uh, which people thought he just did to kind of clear his head and get a breath of fresh air. Uh, so he’s out in the woods. He comes across two young college students having a picnic, and this is July of ’75. He’s 23 years old. For some reason, seemingly an inexplicable rage takes over, and he decides they have to die right now.

Em: Oh. So this is the– Like this is just out of–

Christine: Out of–

Em: It just hits him. This is the–

Christine: Just hits him.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Yeah. Isn’t that weird? There’s a lot of like questions surrounding the psychology of this, you know.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: A lot of theories. He decides, in that moment, they just have to die. Like he just sees them. And some people theorize like maybe– So it was a, a young man and a young woman, and they were college students, and they were lifelong friends, and they were having a picnic. And some people are like, “Maybe he was enraged that like there was a couple– a– seemingly like a couple in front of him? Like maybe he was–“ Nobody knows. Maybe he was planning this for– in his head for years, and he was waiting for the right opportunity?

Em: Sure.

Christine: Nobody really knows, but for some reason–

Em: Maybe she said something that made her– made him feel like women aren’t safe or something?

Christine: Totally could be. Totally could be like something triggered, and he doesn’t even tell us what it is. So – [sighs] oof – he decides they have to die, and without further deliberation, he just walks right up to them and shoots them both in the head.

Em: Whoa. Okay.

Christine: Just like executes them right there at their picnic.

Em: Whoa. So like also like, like publicly. Like he’s like not afraid of people seeing this?

Christine: They're in the woods, so it’s kind of out, out there, like in Washington, like kind of way out there, but it’s not– it’s, it’s in pu– I mean, it’s outside. Yeah. It’s like in public, you know. Like I don’t think he would know whether or not–

Em: Like you– Like he has to wonder, “Did anyone hear that, that shot?”

Christine: Well, you know what? He did also oftentimes go, uh, target shooting, like target practice in the woods. So maybe he was already–

Em: So maybe that’s what he was doing.

Christine: –shooting his, you know, target practice, and then somehow these people disturbed his peace. They pissed him off. They just existed.

Em: Or he’s an opportunist, and there’s finally two people in the woods when he has a gun.

Christine: He’s an opportunist.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Exactly. So we don’t really know, but I don’t think those shots themselves would have startled anyone, um, because he was already out there kind of oftentimes doing target practice. But yeah. He, he shoots them in cold blood. Then he callously dumps their bodies by the water. He, he puts– He like puts them in this really humiliating, degrading pose. Like he puts her on top of him, you know, and like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –tries to make it like look kind of more vile, and he, he dumps trash all over them to cover their bodies.

Em: Jeez.

Christine: It’s just really– starts very heavy. Um, it’s been suggested that Yates had secretly fantasized about doing something like this, and like you said, the opportunity presented itself, and he just went for it. That’s the only thing that kind of makes sense. In 1977, two years after his first murder, Yates enlisted as an Army pilot. During his 18-year tenure in the armed forces, um, a disturbing pattern emerged. And wouldn’t you know it? Everywhere he went, everywhere he was stationed with the army, sex workers were being found murdered in increasing numbers. Hm.

Em: Wouldn’t you know it?

Christine: Wouldn’t you know it? Despite this climbing body count, Yates managed to avoid being linked to the crimes. Um, you know, they weren’t collecting necessarily DNA evidence. It was also the fact that he’s moving around. Um, also the fact that they’re sex workers gets, uh, you know i-it not maybe taken as seriously, uh, by law enforcement, especially back then. In April 1996, he is now 44 years old and a father of five children. He’s married, has five kids.

Em: And got away with that, that– got away with all of them so far.

Christine: Got away with these and more. Yes. [chuckles]

Em: Do we know like by now, um– And you said in the ‘90s, do you know how many there were–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –that he’s gotten away with?

Christine: Well, no.

Em: Okay

Christine: Because we have about 15, I believe, confirmed victims.

Em: Okay. Wow.

Christine: And it’s theorized that there are more that we would just never be able to link or just don’t know.

Em: Mm. Okay.

Christine: Which is– I mean, if you think about like he murders two people– I mean, yeah, there is that cooling off period. There’s like that period in between oftentimes for serial killers, but still like who knows if he killed someone else in that time period and just disposed of them in those two years, you know. I mean, especially if he’s moving around. There’s just no way to know. Um, but 15 he was convicted of, so we do know that for sure.

Em: Okay.

Christine: But it is believed that there are more than that. So he's now father of five, and the daughters– I remember watching an interview with them at one point as well– with two of the daughters, Amber and Michelle, who are, of course, now adults, and they are like, of course, deeply distressed by how this all happened. You know, their dad–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –really was just like their dad, right? Like they, they talked–

Em: A pillar.

Christine: A pillar of the community, exactly. They talked about, um, a time where their dad got home, and they were sitting in the van, heading somewhere, and the one daughter, Michelle, turns around. She’s in the middle row of seats in the minivan, and she’s like, “What is that stain?” And it was blood, just a huge blood stain. And her dad said, “Oh, oh, oh, I actually– I hit a dog and trans– had to transport it to the vet. So that’s what happened.” Um, and he told his kids he couldn’t get all the blood out, and Michelle remembers just how like sickly the smell was and how strong–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –and pungent the smell was. And they said the stain just stayed there. Like it never went anywhere. And so like just having to like look back on your own childhood and be like, “How much of that was my dad literally–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–raping and murdering people?”

Em: And–

Christine: Or, “murdering people and putting them in the car?”

Em: And it is, um– It’s a– I don’t know what the– sombering reminder that, I guess, like if someone could do this, they could then just go pick their kids up and be driving in a van with them right afterwards.

Christine: Right.

Em: ’Cause you would, you would hope–

Christine: I’m– Totally.

Em: You would hope if someone killed me, they would then spend the rest of their life in total complete panic wondering if they’re gonna get caught tomorrow. Like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Like I would be a nervous beyond fucking wreck. But the fact that someone can just like go get ice cream with their kids while covered in my blood, like that’s–

Christine: And just be like, “Oh, it’s dog blood.” And then he’s like, “Oh, by the way, the dog survived.” It’s like, “Fuck you,” you know?

Em: Yeah, yeah.

Christine: Like you co– It’s–

Em: Horrible.

Christine: It’s really rough. And to have the daughters like have to reckon, reckon with that is just terrible.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, so like I said, he’s now 44. The year’s 1996. He has five kids. In April, Yates resigned from the army and returned to Spokane, which was very odd because he was only 18 months away from retiring with a full military pension. And with–

Em: So close.

Christine: –wife and five kids, it’s like, “Why would you leave 18 months before you– You’re 44.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “Like, “Why would you leave this great career?” And looking back, investigators believe that his abrupt decision to leave the military was due to a murder that went kind of sideways that, that he committed during this time.

Em: Got cocky and it got messy? Is that what we’re thinking?

Christine: So what happened is that– This is a little bit of, uh, of theorizing, and like we’re not 100% sure, but it has been theorized that, uh, he had picked up a sex worker outside Fort Rucker, and this 19-year-old, uh, sex worker was transgender.

Em: Okay.

Christine: And it’s theorized that he discovered this unknowingly and either became enraged or just killed the person without, without the usual like kind of coo– cool-headedness that he did this with. Uh, but either way–

Em: He just lost shit?

Christine: Yeah, just kind of lost his shit and, and fell out of control and immediately dropped out of– Th-this is the theory because the timeline adds up, but he basically drops out of the military, and they move back to Spokane. They’re just– He’s just like out of there with his whole family.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So after leaving the military, they go to Spokane, and he, of course, continues his murder spree. It’s believed that he killed two people in the area between 1995 and 1996, but these cases remain unproven. What we do know is that Yates seemed to consider sex workers the easiest targets. In 1997, he joined the Army National Guard, um, with aspirations of becoming a helicopter pilot. And to make ends meet in the meantime, he took on a menial job at a factory.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: When he wasn’t working, he would frequent this area called East Sprague, which is also called “The Track.”

Em: Okay.

Christine: And it’s where a lot of sex workers and, um– you know just kind of the, the sort of strip of the town where people would hang out and do illicit activities. So we have sex work.

Em: Okay.

Christine: We have drugs. We have that kind of stuff. So Yates actually, not only did he just go pick women up as victims, he actually like ingratiated himself into the community. So he would befriend these groups of people, and they would talk about this guy running around murdering women, and he’d be like, “I know. Isn’t that scary?” Like, it’s just sick, you know. He’s like playing along, and it’s, it’s– He, he made them trust him, you know?

Em: Yeah. It’s– I, I mean– I, I– Just, just my same comment from earlier. Just it’s horrifying that he can just be so ca– cool-headed about this like you said.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So after inviting the women into his car, which was a white Corvette that he was very proud of, uh–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –he would– Yeah, that comes back, don’t worry.

Em: [chuckles] Okay.

Christine: The Corvette becomes its own character, uh–

Em: Of course.

Christine: –in the show. He would solicit sex from them, at which point they presumably didn’t know that they were in danger.

Em: Of course.

Christine: Afterward, he would just shoot them like in point blank range without any fanfare.

Em: Like– [sighs] I don’t– Okay.

Christine: There’s just something about it. He felt like that was–

Em: Was it– I wonder if it was like– Was he ashamed and just getting rid of evidence that he had done this?

Christine: I don’t know. It almost feels more like he’s getting something he wants and then like executing them as a power move. Do you know what I mean? Like–

Em: Sure. I still hate it. [chuckles] I don’t, I don’t know if it’s–

Christine: [chuckles] Well. Really? I think it’s awesome. Um–

Em: No. Yeah, I know. I, uh, I’m, I’m–

Christine: No, I don’t know. I don’t know. He’s a conundrum.

Em: I’m surprised that there’s not more of like a fanfare to it or like a– I don’t know why. I think I’m just used to like, “Oh, and now I’m gonna hold you hostage,” or, “Now I’m gonna do this,” or “Now I’m gonna–“

Christine: I think it’s just that’s how storytelling usually ends up, like especially on like crime shows, SVU, Criminal Minds. Like it’s always like much more– And, and these– People do shit like that. So it’s not– I’m not saying it’s like more dramatic than real life. I think just like some of these people are just like coldblooded.

Em: I think–

Christine: Like they don’t care about anything but just actually–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –ending the person’s life.

Em: Certainly cold-blooded because I, um, I can’t– Not that I wish that he tortured them, but I, I feel like there usually– there’s an element of like a mind game to it af–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –after the fact or uh, “Oh, will you survive?” But he was really just like–

Christine: I wonder if the mind–

Em: –“I’m done with you.” Click.

Christine: I wonder if the mind game wasn’t about that victim. I wonder if it was more just like the general like, “Look at me getting away with this–“

Em: Mm.

Christine: “–and I can just keep doing it and living a double life and getting– having five kids and a Corvette and a job and a bloody minivan.” I don’t know.

Em: Yeah. Okay, that’s a good point.

Christine: I don’t know. I– This is one of those where you’re just like, “Maybe it’s that. Maybe it’s this. Maybe he thought this.” It’s just unclear. Um–

Em: No wonder we had trouble, uh, putting blurbs into the story. [chuckles]

Christine: I know. It’s maddening. And like the Corvette is the only thing that ended up really being like the it factor for us. [laughs]

Em: [chuckles] Sure. I– We were like, “Whatever is the least– the most removed from the horrors.”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Exac– [chuckles] Exactly. Exactly. So he would solicit sex from them, then execute them, and he would then tie a plastic grocery bag over the woman’s head. And that’s–

Em: [whispered] Why?

Christine: –why he’s often called the Grocery Bag Killer.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Uh, he did not–

Em: Was it to keep things clean?

Christine: Yes.

Em: Is that why?

Christine: Yes.

Em: Okay.

Christine: I was gonna say it was not for like sadistic reasons. It wasn’t like he’s suffocating them. It’s not like– You know, they’re already dead. So it’s not like he’s doing it to hi– so he doesn’t have to look at their face. It really is just to keep his Corvette clean.

Em: So disgusting.

Christine: I know.

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Christine: In the summer of ’97, Yates picked up 20-year-old Heather Hernandez and brutally shot her in the head with a .22 caliber handgun before disposing of her body on the side of the road just with no– just like total lack of remorse like she was just trash.

Em: Mm. [sighs]

Christine: The same year, he picked up 16-year-old Jennifer Joseph, who had moved to Spokane only a month earlier. He left her in a field, just carelessly dumped like trash. And you know, one note too, is like people, not ma– I mean, maybe back then more so, but people ask like, “Well, why are they still doing this?” Like, they have to. They’re desperate. They’re trying to survive. What the fuck do you think? Like they’re doing it for fun?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: They’re doing sex work for fun? I mean, good on you if you are, but like not all– If these people are terrified for their lives and there’s a serial killer running around– I mean, it’s just like–

Em: They can’t just like stop going to work.

Christine: Right, exactly.

Em: Or like they still have bills too.

Christine: Exactly.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: And children and, and food and– Ah! [Christine nearly drops her iPad.] Sorry. And there was a lot of drug use, right? Like heavy drug dependency. I mean, it’s just like you get into these cycles, and it’s just terrible that they were so desperate, and then he just knew that he could keep it up, you know–

Em: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Christine: –despite their terror. So he picked up 16-year-old Jennifer Joseph, um, and also left her carelessly dumped like trash in a field. In 1998, investigators finally received a crucial lead because someone mentioned having spotted Jennifer getting into a white Corvette before she was killed.

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: Soon after, Yates in his white Corvette was pulled over for speeding.

Em: [sucks in a breath] You see, if you’re gonna be a s– a murderer, you better fucking also never do petty crime. Like why get caught up? Like you’re just– It just feels–

Christine: That’s a great point.

Em: It feels like if you think– Again, this just proves that he must be– there must be something wrong in the head because I would be such a nervous wreck. I’d be like, “There’s no way anyone’s ever catching me doing anything because I’m terrified that at any moment–“

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: “–it’s all over.”

Christine: It’s interesting you say that because they pulled him over, and instead of ending the story there with his arrest, uh, like something out of a movie, the officer actually wrote “Camaro” instead of “Corvette” on the police report.

Em: Hm.

Christine: And Gates was able to move on with his day.

Em: Dumb luck.

Christine: Dumb luck.

Em: So annoying.

Christine: In August 1998, and I– So it’s unclear. Apparently, the officer wrote “C-A-M,” and then it was translated to someone else as being a Camaro, and that’s how it was put in the system is, is what I’ve heard. But they were supposed to be on the lookout for a Corvette, and it didn’t even cross, didn’t even cross their desk because they accidentally wrote “Camaro.”

Em: I– This is where I say in police training academy there better be a class where you just have to memorize every goddamn car.

Christine: Yeah. Right? Like how would you even–

Em: I wouldn’t know.

Christine: Yeah, that’s– You gotta feel silly.

Em: I’d be like, “I don’t know. She’s like white and cute,” you know? Like I’d be like, “What do you–“ [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “She’s old. I don’t know.” You know?

Christine: I think that probably that information is also written like on– You know?

Em: It– Yeah.

Christine: The car?

Em: Like, “In, in the right light, she’s like a really pretty green. But otherwise, I like really don’t care for it.” [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] I’m glad you’re not in police academy. Okay.

Em: [laughs] It’s giving like Legally Blonde–

Christine: Yeah, it is.

Em: –but the police version.

Christine: Yes, it is. In August 1998, sex worker Christine Smith hopped into Yates’s car around 1 a.m. and jokingly asked him, “You’re not the psycho killer, are you?”

Em: Mm.

Christine: Yates put her at ease, explaining that he had five kids at home and would never do something like that.

Em: Horrifying.

Christine: As she performed oral sex on this guy, she felt a glancing pain to her head. And she thought she had been stabbed, so she made a run for it and got three stitches when she made it to get some medical care.

Em: And she– Was she– It– Was it stabbed? She had been stabbed?

Christine: Well, it wasn’t until early 2000 that an X-ray for another injury revealed that she had bullet fragments in her head.

Em: She got fucking shot and didn’t know–

Christine: She–

Em: –and then survived forever?

Christine: –got fucking shot and didn’t know and then survived forever.

Em: How did that– There was a whole bullet in her head?

Christine: Mm-hmm. Fragments of it anyway.

Em: I don’t understand gun science enough to know what that– Was she grazed? Like did it, did it jam? Like what does that fucking mean?

Christine: I think she just felt this pain, this pressure, went to the hospital, said, “This guy stabbed me.” They saw the laceration and just thought, “Okay, we’ll stitch it up for you.” Really. Like I think it just happened to be in a way that it didn’t cause lasting–

Em: Well, like her–

Christine: –damager.

Em: Is her skull like made of steel? [chuckles] How did it only go like an inch? You know, like how’d the bullet like– I don’t understand. Not that it’s– You don’t have to educate me. But like I’m so confused.

Christine: I mean, I assume like however you get a laceration from stabbing–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –like c– a cut. Maybe it was like that same– I don’t know. I don’t know.

Em: I don’t, I don’t know. She’s fucking lucky, I’ll tell you that. I, I can’t b–

Christine: I tell you what.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: She didn’t realize for two years that she had been shot in the head until she got an X-ray, and they were like, “Hey, sweetie. There’s a bullet in your head.” And she’s like, “What?” [chuckles]

Em: [laughs] She would– She, she would win every like two truths and a lie for sure.

Christine: Truly though. Truly though. She realized she had– At this point, she realized, “Oh my god, I wasn’t stabbed. I was shot in the head by the Grocery Bag Killer, and I’m just now realizing it.” So just terribly traumatic. By the time 1999 rolled around though, almost three decades had passed since Yates’s first known murder. He’s been on– He’s been doing this for three decades without getting caught, and he’s even been pulled over in his Corvette and still has not been caught.

Em: [sighs] Ooh.

Christine: At this point, he has at least 13 victims to his name, most of whom were vulnerable young women. So whether he was just like getting way too cocky, like you suggested, or some people like claim that maybe there’s this psychology of like wanting to get caught, or just getting too close to the sun, whatever it is, he started getting sloppy.

Em: Mm.

Christine: When a plastic bag found over one of the victim’s heads revealed a fingerprint, they quickly got in the system and realized this is a guy named Robert Lee Yates.

Em: “It’s that guy with the Camaro.”

Christine: “It’s that guy with the Camaro.” So they bring him in for questioning. At this point, Yates is 47, and he couldn’t account for his whereabouts on key dates, resulting in some suspicion from officers.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Police knew they had their guy when during questioning they mentioned a white Camaro and Yates responded, “It’s not a Camaro, it’s a Corvette.”

Em: I was literally about to make that joke when I– Okay. Well, and also like, uh, this is how– Again–

Christine: This is where Em’s aside was.

Em: All– [chuckles] Yeah. Oh, oh, really?

Christine: Can you tell? [laughs]

Em: Really? Okay. What was my aside?

Christine: What– Wait, what? What are you gonna say? I wanna know if, I wanna know if it’s–

Em: It won’t match for sure.

Christine: I mean, it’s probably not the same.

Em: But I was, I was just gonna say like literally all he had to do was like shut the fuck up and like–

Christine: Oh, interesting. Let me read you your aside. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Em aside: “Sometimes the best thing you can do for yourself is to just shut the fuck up.”

Em: Okay. So–

Christine: You're, you’re a talent.

Em: Like literally all you had to do was not be a cocky piece of shit and like just let them–

Christine: Just shut the fuck up.

Em: –get the information wrong and not be so proud about your shitty car.

Christine: Just shut the fuck up, exactly.

Em: Just shut the fuck up, and you’ll be fu– You could have gotten away with it.

Christine: And they were like, “Oh, a Corvette, you say?”

Em: Stupid.

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. So of course, they submit the vehicle for forensic testing, and they’re finally able to link Yates to the crimes. I mean, you think they have a big blood stain in the minivan, of course his Corvette’s gonna have DNA in it, you know. So they’re able to match him. Threads from his car actually matched these threads– fibers that they had found on Jennifer Joseph’s body, the 16-year-old. They also found in his car a small mother of pearl button that matched Jennifer’s cardigan or her sweater.

Em: Oof. So–

Christine: So–

Em: –he was keeping little trophies.

Christine: No, it had actually just fallen off.

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: And he hadn’t found it, and so it was like rolled underneath a seat.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Just getting sloppy, you know.

Em: I guess so.

Christine: They knew she’d been in that vehicle prior to her death. And of course, the real kicker came when they tested the blood and revealed a DNA match to Jennifer’s blood. He was finally arrested on April 17, 2000, and a search of his home yielded evidence linking him to multiple murders. His DNA was matched to several victims between ’96 and ’98, and he was charged with a total of 13 murders along with the attempted murder of Christine Smith, the witness who had escaped his grasp.

Em: Mm.

Christine: IJn October 2000, he surprised everyone by pleading guilty to all counts. And because of this, he avoided a trial and the death penalty. He did receive a life sentence without the possibility of parole, which totaled 408 years behind bars.

Em: [chuckles] Holy shit. Okay.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. In 2002, Yates was convicted of two additional murders, which is how we get to that 15 number. Because of these two– Oh, I want to– I missed a whole section here. In exchange for his plea, by the way – before we get to the two additional murders – he didn’t get the death penalty in exchange for the plea, but he had to agree to reveal the location of his victim, Melody Murfin, because the police and her family had been desperate to find her.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So the police had struck out, and finally, when he made this plea deal, he said, “I’ll show you where she is.” So they follow him, and he leads them to her burial site outside his bedroom window in his backyard.

Em: Oof. [sighs] That’s a rough one.

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like where he and his wife would sleep there, and he buried her underneath the window. Like–

Em: [sighs] That’s a toughy.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: That's gross.

Christine: In 2002, Yates was convicted of two additional murders, and now he received the death penalty. [chuckles] Like he didn’t when he made the plea agreement, and then they found two more murders, and they’re like, “Well, now you do, so.”

Em: When they found those other two, he had to be like, “Oh…”

Christine: “damn it.”

Em: “Fuck.” Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: 100%. 100%. However, they did abolish– Washington State abolished the death penalty in 2023 officially, and so his death sentence was commuted to life in prison–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –without the possibility of parole. In 2013, Yates’s attorneys filed a habeas corpus petition in federal district court, stating that actually he’s mentally ill because–

Em: Oh.

Christine: Well, yeah, could have told you that, first of all.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Second of all, they said he suffers from a type of “severe paraphilic disorder” – and a paraphilic is like a sexual deviancy or like a, you know, something– a compulsion – called necrophilia.

Em: Oh?

Christine: Mm.

Em: Does he?

Christine: Mm.

Em: Yeah. I, again, could have, could have pinned that one out.

Christine: Yeah, like not shocking. Thank you. Um, they claim–

Em: It’s like this whole– The investigation could have been an email situation. It’s like–

Christine: Truly. But yes, they claim that this necrophilia predisposed– which to none of his own fault, by the way, of course, because he can’t control what diseases he has.

Em: Mm

Christine: They said that this, um, disorder predisposes him to commit murder.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Okay. Uh, it’s considered a long shot that this will go anywhere. I can understand why. Um, and apparently the Pierce County prosecutor, Mark Lindquist, said, “I don’t think Mr. Yates helps his cause by relying on the fact that he’s a necrophiliac.” So I think we’re okay.

Em: Sure.

Christine: He’s not really gonna go anywhere. Yates is suspected of having taken many more lives than the 15 he was convicted of. But today, he serves his time in the Washington State Penitentiary, which is ironically, if you’ll recall, the same facility where he once worked as a prison guard.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Wouldn’t you know it?

Em: The irony. I– As you know, I watch a lot of, um, To Catch a Predator, and–

Christine: [chuckles] That’s right. I do know that about you.

Em: –and the amount of people who are COs or work in the prison system in some way, they’re like–

Christine: Oh…

Em: –extra terrified about getting arrested because now they’re gonna get put in with all the people they’ve been watching.

Christine: And they– [gasps]

Em: Yeah, that’s–

Christine: And if–

Em: It’s like a lot.

Christine: And To Catch A Predator, like you’re a– you’re gonna– you’re– you know what you’re in for. Oh my god.

Em: They don’t treat those people too well in the prison system.

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: Especially if, on top of that, you also were like their correctional officer. So I think they– For their safety, I think they get sent to a different prison than the one they were working at. But, um–

Christine: Right, right, right.

Em: But still.

Christine: Not this guy.

Em: Not that guy.

Christine: I’m gonna send you a picture of what Juniper is doing right now. Sorry. It’s like so distracting.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: He, he’s nuts. Actually, I’ll just show you like this. He’s just–

[Christine’s video fades away to show a picture of Gio, a black and brown fluffy dog, lying on the floor with his back against the wall and his chin resting between his front paws. Juniper, a white cat, is lying on his back right in front of Gio with his torso twisted and front paws outstretched towards Gio.]

Christine: Oh no. Oh no.

Em: I see baby G though.

Christine: That’s part of the problem. He’s just harassing the dog.

Em: [laughs] Uh–

Christine: He keeps just poking him in the head.

Em: Last night, Hank had a, a dose of doggy catnip.

Christine: Oh, how was that?

Em: Just rolling around like a tumbleweed.

Christine: How did he react?

Em: Just like a tumbleweed, just rolling around.

Christine: You know, the cats love that shit, man.

Em: He–

Christine: Catnip.

Em: I think he felt, um– I think he was neutral to it. I couldn’t really tell where the craziness was– where it was responsible. Um– Oh! Look at little Juniper.

Christine: Just like rolling around like a tumble weed–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –and just like smacking Gio in the head. [laughs]

Em: Oh, just a– Gio just wants to be left the hell alone. Oh my god.

Christine: [laughs] He’s just trying to sleep.

Em: That’s a cute puppy though. I love that little puppy. I love this kitty.

Christine: He is a floofy puppy.

Em: [sighs] Well, that’s a great way to end it. I– We really should have always just ended on cat and dog pictures–

Christine: We should have a puppy corner. Yeah.

Em: –you know. [sighs] Well, um, thanks for letting me relive that with different commentary.

Christine: Oh, you’re so welcome. Except the same commentary when you said it again.

Em: Yeah. There was a little redemption though. I feel like I got a few more words in there this time, but–

Christine: Oh, hell yeah. And I, I feel like– Even though that’s like a shorter one, I feel like, um– I feel like i-it’s a– I’m just still surprised I haven’t covered it. Like, you haven’t heard it, right? Like but au–

Em: Mm-mmm.

Christine: Like audio-wise? Okay.

Em: I–

Christine: Maybe I–

Em: And I mean I literally had to read your cases so I could put asides in–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and I don’t–

Christine: Okay, okay.

Em: I’m sorry. I don’t really remember– You could, you could cover all 50–

Christine: Please.

Em: –or whatever states we covered. You– I wouldn’t remember. Um–

Christine: Yep, yep. I think that’s probably fair to say about both of us, so.

Em: Yeah, which feels insensitive, but everyone, please remember we’ve done like over 500 cases.

Christine: It–

Em: I can’t remember all them. I just– I just can’t.

Christine: It’s one of those things where you get into and you’re like, “Oh, yeah, I remember this.” But it’s like they all start to get blurred together–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –when you’re researching them. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Especially when all 500 have one thing in common, it’s that people are dying. It’s like–

Christine: Unfortunately.

Em: –it’s traumatic and terrible–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –but also I cannot organize them in my head to know every single one separately. Um–

Christine: Right. No, no.

Em: Ai-yai-yai. Well, good telling it, Christine, for a second time.

Christine: [chuckles] Thank you so much.

Em: [chuckles] You’re welcome.

Christine: Maybe someday I’ll finish the other notes I’m working on ’cause they’re a doozy, dude.

Em: I feel the same way. There’s an alien one I keep trying to do for you–

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: –and it’s just so annoying to be honest. It–

Christine: [sighs] Yeah, it’s a lot.

Em: I feel like half the, half the story will be me complaining about how annoying this is. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Everyone will understand when I get there.

Christine: I can’t wait.

Em: Okay. Well, what are you up to for the rest of the day?

Christine: Listen, what, what, uh, day is today? Monday? Oh my god, we never record on a Monday. I don’t know. I’m gonna drink my D. Peppy and chill. What are you up to?

Em: [sighs] What do I have? I have a standing friend date that I gotta go to. I–

Christine: Oh, nice.

Em: And I’ve got the dog park, and I’ve got dodgeball, so.

Christine: Jesus. Okay, you’re busy.

Em: Make– I make it work. And then I’ll– I have to finish my math book tonight ’cause I have– I ordered another one, so. [laughs]

Christine: Your math– [chuckles] Oh my word in heaven.

Em: I’m trying to finish fourth grade so I can get to fifth grade. So wish me luck. [chuckles]

Christine: You know, I was– [chuckles] I was, uh, watching Great British Bake Off with Blaise last night, and this guy– He was such a goober. It was season 13, and he was– Poor guy. [chuckles] He, he threw an axe like they did– You know when they go to their hou– like in a reality show or whate– competition where they go to their house and they’re like, “35-year-old so-and-so is a stay-at-home mom and cooks–“

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “–for her children–“ whatever the fuck. So they have this guy, Hassan, and they’re like, “Hassan is a so-and-so-year-old, uh, scientist who lives in– And he loves yoga,” and he’s just like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –in his little room doing yoga, and it’s so dorky. And then they’re like, “–and spending time with friends,” and he’s like playing with the axe throwing.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: And he throws an axe, and it fucking bounces back. [laughs] And it flies like right over his head, and he goes– [laughs] What did he say? Wait, wait, wait. I have to say it right. He said– Oh no, now I’m gonna lose it.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: What do the British people say? They say, “Oh my something.”

Em: I have no idea.

Christine: It wasn’t “oh my heavens,” but it was something very like British, and it–

Em: “Heavens to Betsy” or something like that. I don’t–

Christine: It was like, “Oh my heavens!” And this axe just– [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –flying over his head. And, um, I don’t remember why I just told you that except for–

Em: I think it’s ’cause you can imagine me on one of those shows where it’s like, “Em Schulz likes to do fourth grade math for fun.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: And then I can’t get it right, and then I go, “Oh my heavens.” [laughs]

Christine: Oh my heavens. Oh my heavens. I need to ask Blaise what it was. It was something ridiculous. Um, anyway, all that to say, I will say also, spoiler alert, he was the first one kicked off. [laughs]

Em: Oh… Well–

Christine: ’Cause his cake went like this: “Pfft!” [Christine mimics a cake collapsing down on itself with her hands.] Like the lumberjak–jack cake I made you one time.

Em: It went like– It went just like his axe throwing, so.

Christine: Exactly right. Oh my heavens.

Em: Oh my heavens.

Christine: I’ll think about what he said and come back with it next week.

Em: [sighs] Well, okay. Well, I’ll see you next time. And–

Christine: That’s–

Em: Why–

Christine: We–

Em: Drink.

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