E476 Country Ghost Songs and Produce Shirt Mandela Effects

TOPICS: ZAK BAGANS’ RETURN TO THE GOLDFIELD HOTEL PT. 3, DOROTHY ARNOLD PT. 1

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Episode 476 is here and it’s a double groutfit kind of day! Today Em takes us back to Nevada one last time for Part Three of their story aka Zak Bagans' return to the Goldfield Hotel. Then Christine almost brings us the case of the mysterious non-existent vegetable t-shirts, but actually covers Part One of the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold, a socialite from New York City. And remember to not breathe any ghosts in, especially if they ask you to! …and that’s why we drink!

Photo Links:
Dorothy Arnold 1
Dorothy Arnold 2

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Transcript

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[intro music]

Christine: After you.

Em: [chuckles] Yeah, we’re facing off over here, like a– like the Wild West.

Christine: We’re playing chicken. [laughs]

Em: Do you, um– Well, I was gonna ask you a stupid cowboy question.

Christine: It’s not like we haven’t been talking for 20 minutes to like do ads and p-produce the show, but all of a sudden, the cameras turn on, we get shy.

Em: I don’t– I know. I think both of us are afraid of like hogging the, the first line, you know?

Christine: That’s right. I mean, looking back, there’s never been a time that one of us jumped in and started the show. Every single time, we’re just so gracious and bow to each other. That’s the part you all don’t hear is that before the show starts we’re spending 10, 20 minutes just kind of, “after you,” “after you,” “after you.”

Em: That’s right. That’s exactly right.

Christine: It’s really– Yeah, it’s really ta-taxing actually.

Em: It’s really hard being, um, as polite as I am–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –but, um–

Christine: Gentile, I would call it.

Em: In s– [chuckles] In the– It’s worth it in the end. It’s, you know, it’s worth it for– It, it’s hard w– It’s not much, but it’s honest work. You know, I’ve always said that.

Christine: That’s right. And someone’s gotta do it.

Em: Someone’s gotta do it. Someone has to be gracious. And [chuckles] it was obviously me today because, um, I think you took the first, first line.

Christine: I think I did. And I, I really, um– I have to bow down and say, you know what? Uh, this duel has ended. Congratulations.

Em: Ooh!

Christine: You’re the fair and square winner. And, um, I will take the hit. I will talk first.

Em: It reminds me of when, um, like Michael Scott and Darryl was– Darryl was trying to have like that negotiation, and Michael Scott like refused to speak first.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: He’s like– He said something like–

Christine: And, and Michael just keeps whispering ’cause he wants Darryl to like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –lean in to like hear him ’cause he read that stupid book. [laughs]

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] Well, uh, h– You know, today is the ultimate And That’s Why We Drink day. Happy St. Patty’s Day – to us, at least.

Christine: I can’t believe it. I’m in a green room.

Em: I know. I– Wow. Okay. So I really can’t get you. Wow.

Christine: Wow. Well, I’m not wearing– I’m wearing a full “groutfit” as our friend Alexis from grad school used to say when I walked out of our apartment– or walked out my bedroom.

Em: I’m, I’m also in a groutfit actually.

Christine: Oh, see– And then they became– I mean, this, this shade of groutfit’s like not it ’cause it’s three different shades. But I, at the time, was wearing like a light gray sweatshirt and light gray sweats, and that became a look, and like sometimes I think I should just text Alexis. It’s not like I’ve like texted her in months but–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –maybe a year, but I’ll be like, “You know what?”

Em: “Thinking of you.”

Christine: “Fuck you.”

Em: Oh. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: You know, I have a college roommate, um, who was all about a sweater dress back when like–

Christine: Oh! A sweater dress.

Em: Those were the thing in 2010.

Christine: Whoa.

Em: The thing.

Christine: They were the thing.

Em: They were the thing. And so, anytime I’ve– see a sweater dress in public, which these days it doesn’t feel like a– I feel like we should bring back the sweater dress. That was wonderful.

Christine: N– I’m into that ’cause I like those things, I think.

Em: But I think about texting her every time I see one. And uh, of course–

Christine: Do you ever wonder what people th– what makes people think of you? Like someone random in your life that you don’t talk to much? Like– Because I feel like that person might not know, right, that you would think, “Oh, sweater dress,” and then–

Em: Right.

Christine: –immediately link it to them. But like I wonder what people think of you. You know what I mean?

Em: I, I hope we both secretly think of the same thing and have like a, a like a mutual admiration that’s just never been discussed about–

Christine: Oh, that’s nice.

Em: But I also have anxiety and so– [chuckles]

Christine: But more likely, [chuckles] theory– [laughs] More likely theory–

Em: I’m more inclined to think like, “Oh, do they remember that like really embarrassing thing I said?”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: And– Yeah.

Christine: And like, let’s be honest, probably.

Em: Probably.

Christine: But, you know, that’s life. Um–

Em: What about you? Do you think there’s like an inside joke that, uh– or inside thing that it’s undeniable someone still thinks about you?

Christine: [chuckles] Okay. Well, you know that thing– You know what just immediately came to mind was that fucking drawing that I do when we’re on-air–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –with local live television. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Fox News doesn’t know it, but there have been quite a lot of X-rated drawings happening–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –during their, uh, their s–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –their, uh, interviews.

Christine: Uh, not that we’re on Fox News, just to be clear. Um, can you imagine someone–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –for– listening for the first time, and he’s like, “These motherfuckers are on Fox News?” Yeah.

Em: I remember the first time we got asked to like do an interview with the– I was like, “Why Fox News?” And I– It didn’t occur to me–

Christine: Yeah, it was like Fox 17 local news or whatever.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Uh, so we’ve done a few of those, but there’s this drawing that I– Oh, and I– By the way, the other day I was going through some old journals of mine, and I found the original journal, uh, entry where I wrote about it, and it’s just as bad as I remember.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Like I read that entry, and it was like, “Today, um, Blank,” my friend–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –at the time, “got in trouble because she and–“

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “–our other friend,” let’s say Mary, “were passing notes, and my friend, Tre-Tr–“

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “–Trudy–“

Em: Phil. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] What is wrong with me? “–my friend, Trudy, drew this note, and it was– or drew this picture, and they were passing notes. And then one of them, our friend, Mary, was like, “Oh my god, what the fuck?” And so then it caused like a little commotion, and all of a sudden, everyone– And I was kind of like witnessing this, and I was like, “You guys are such idiots. You’re gonna get in trouble.” By the way, we were in religion class–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –in case anyone was wondering. Um, and it was 10th grade, uh, religion–

Em: And you were doing a lot of sinning, by the way. That was, uh–

Christine: Oh, yes.

Em: –the ultimate sin.

Christine: And our teacher’s name, let’s call him, um, Mr. Nagel, and–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –he was up there, and he’s like, “Oh, what you got there?” And he was new to the school, and he was already kind of in over his head with our class. And he picked up this note, and on it was a drawing, a stick figure drawing that Trudy had made of, um, a desk–

Em: Mm-hmm. Keep going.

Christine: –and two stick figures–

Em: Doing what?

Christine: –a– uh, having sex–

Em: ‘kay.

Christine: –on Mr. Nagel’s desk. And then another kid in our class, let’s call him Paulo, walked in and – this is all in the drawing – walked in, and there was some incident that occurred in the comic strip that– And basically, it was this–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –drawing of this 10th grade girl in our class having sex with our teacher. [chuckles] And he picks it up, and it’s like another student walking in. Like it was just like really bad. And the s–

Em: And how old were you? Just to defend yourself, how old were you when this happened? Like a child. Like–

Christine: I think, I think we were like 14 or 15.

Em: Yeah, the, the–

Christine: I mean, we were too old to– We know better. But to be fair, I was just witnessing this. I was like, “I’m not– I know better.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “Like I’m not that stu– Like I’m fucking stupid. I’m not that stupid.” And he got fired.

Em: [jaw drops, shocked into silence] [gasps]

Christine: Here’s what I’ll say. I don’t know that for a fact. What I do know is he disappeared, and I never had him again. He was never at the school again, so I don’t know that he was fired. I don’t know if he quit. I don’t– I wouldn’t blame him ’cause he really–

Em: I wouldn’t blame him either. I think he walked out. He was like, “I’m already in over my head.”

Christine: He actually left the room–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –’cause he was so like disturbed. And then he left the room ’cause he didn’t know what to do. And it was like, “We–“

Em: So you saw your friend making this drawing?

Christine: I did. And they were passing it back and forth, and I was like, “It’s your fucking funeral,” you know. Um–

Em: I wonder if they ever got– I mean, so to, to go back to the question of like, “Do you think anyone ever thinks of you?” Mr. Nagel fucking thinks about them for sure.

Christine: I wonder sometimes. And I see him–

Em: That’s awful.

Christine: –every now and then. It’s a very Cincinnati thing. Not anymore, but like when I first graduated, I would see him out and about, and I was like, “Well, he didn’t die.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So the options left are like quit– He didn’t go to jail. [chuckles]

Em: [sighs]

Christine: Options left are like he either quit or was fired. I– Let go. I don’t know. I don’t know. I can’t–

Em: Oh, that poor man. But I– Honestly, I think he probably just checked out. He was like–

Christine: I hope he checked out ’cause like–

Em: I think he was like, “This is, this is, this is the last possible thing I need.”

Christine: Teaching a bunch of 15-year-olds religion and like celibacy and shit. Like what do you think’s gonna happen? He was forced to tea– This was– I mean, he wasn’t forced to do anything, but this was the syllabus, right? Like he can’t– That’s what we have to talk about.

Em: That’s a tall order to be a teacher and have to teach children sex ed. I can’t imagine. You’re gonna be–

Christine: Oh, well, it’s not sex ed, Em. It’s God’s, um–

Em: Oh, right. Sorry.

Christine: It’s G– It’s, you know, your virginal, your virginal– your relationship with Jesus basically.

Em: Okay. [laughs]

Christine: You’re dating Jesus, you know, and stuff like that, right?

Em: Right, married to God. That’s what it is.

Christine: You’re married to God. That’s right.

Em: Married to God. Yeah. So, um, that’s– Did he get any good lessons in there? Do you remember anything he taught you? Or was he just in and then he was fucking out?

Christine: I have a super vivid flash. One of staring blankly at the wall – I remember exactly which classroom – blankly at the board, going– as he opened the note, and going, “Oh no, oh no, oh no.” And then I have another one where he stormed out of the room, and I remember, very like a snapshot, staring at my desk and going, “I am not even gonna– I’m gonna pretend I don’t know those two.”

Em: Right, right, right, right, right.

Christine: And that’s all I remember for that class. So I’m sure I, uh, learned a lot. I learned how to be, um, a, a good wife to the Lord.

Em: Oh, good. Well, how’s that going? Are you divorced yet from him? From the Lord?

Christine: Uh, we’re, we’re in an open relationship.

Em: Oh, I love that. That’s great.

Christine: Thank you.

Em: He’s so–

Christine: We’re very progressive.

Em: –woke. He’s a big progressive liberal.

Christine: Actually, She goes by She/Her now, so. [laughs]

Em: It gets better every time. No, so I, I, in high school, I also knew people who did some nefarious things that I think they still to this day lose sleep over. And I, I didn’t bear witness to it, but I overheard. Basically, there was, uh, a like death threat, like a–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –to somebody who I was friends with.

Christine: Oh. We had a couple of those.

Em: But it was–

Christine: What year was– were you? How old?

Em: So I, I honestly don’t think that– I don’t, I don’t really wanna defend the, the person who did this because it was– it’s not cool, but they were like eight years old and I think they just were mad about somet– like I don’t know. I don’t think they had a concept of what they were actually doing.

Christine: Right. We weren’t at a point where we knew what we– was– Yeah.

Em: I don’t know. I– Maybe they did. I have no idea. But there, there– I remember there being this whole scandal– And keep in mind, I was eight years old, so I don’t, I don’t know if my memory is actually true at this point or just like h– what do you say, like revisionist history or–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –a rewrite for some reason in my head. But I remember there being a huge scandal where, in the middle of taking a test, everyone started he– Someone left and went to the bathroom, and then they saw on one of the stalls it said like–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –“I’m gonna–“ There was some physical threat.

Christine: Oh, it was on the stall.

Em: There was some physical threat to one of the other students who I was friends with.

Christine: Okay. Can I ask you a question?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Weren’t those the best days though?

Em: As someone who at, at eight years old had–

Christine: I’m sick.

Em: –no understanding of like what teachers were probably worried about, and I, I was having fun being nosy and knowing there was drama.

Christine: Oh, I had fun anyway. I don’t care. I–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: This happened to us in eighth grade, and my friend, uh– And I’ll, I’ll use her name ’cause she– she’s a friend of mine and like I don’t think she would be upset about me sharing this, but my friend, Minji, got this like death threat, and it was via AIM. Like somebody had made a fake account, and like was–

Em: What?

Christine: –I know – was sending her all these like crazy messages. And like the thing was we knew who it was.

Em: Mm. Oh, well, there you have it. That’s fun.

Christine: But like there was no way to prove it, right? And the r– the way that I realized in 8th grade that I could be a fucking– that I was pretty much smarter than all my teacher–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: – well, at least my one dumbass teacher and, uh, definitely the religion teacher, but that’s a whole another story. Um, and I don’t know. It was just like I– It occurred to me one day like, “Wow, this lady’s an idiot. Like, I know exactly what happened, and she’s like going down the completely wrong path, but like she’s not gonna believe me ’cause I’m in eighth grade.” Basically, the username– They, they like printed– I mean, we were doing like basically an investigation at school, which now explains–

Em: Yes.

Christine: –a lot about me, right? Like it feels like, “Oh–“ or, uh, you too, like that excitement of like, “Who did it? What– Did anyone see it?”

Em: I think–

Christine: “I got to see it,” you know?

Em: Yeah. As, as a child– Like as an adult, I’m like, “Oh, that’s fucked up,” and I would have certain– Like I would have handled it way differently–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: –than I did at eight, but at eight years old, to me–

Christine: And don’t get me wrong, it’s extremely fucked up, but–

Em: It’s like, it’s like the year before my grandpa died, and I had no understanding of death. And I was like, “I don’t know what’s going on, but like everyone’s sad. I guess, like I’m just gonna like eat the food over here.” And I kind of remember–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –more like the, the wake and like eating food.

Christine: ’Cause you’re not really like affected by it, you know?

Em: Right.

Christine: And like at that age, you just can’t have a conception of like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –what that means. And also like to be honest, this kid was– I mean, not to diminish like the trauma of having this happen to you, but like I knew this kid, and I’m like, “He just does shit like this, and like they gotta get this kid a– some help.” Like I’m like in eighth grade going, “We– Like I know who it is. It’s this one kid who really needs some help and is a very aggressive and like scary kid, but like he’s still at the school, and like,” you know. And, um, the, the, the username said “Prince of J-U-N-G.”

Em: Okay, like Carl Jung.

Christine: Carl Jung. And so my teacher was like, “Oh my gosh, ki– students,” and she– This fucking bitch. I hate this woman with– to the core of my being. She just the other day posted this dumb picture to Facebook, uh, about JD Vance’s tasteful dining room and is like, “Oh, they just put on the most beautiful tapestries,” and then she like writes on JD Vance’s post like she knows him.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It’s really embarrassing. So I’m not gonna name her, but she’s a fool. And so, uh, she basically was like trying to figure out this mystery, and she’s like, “Carl Jung is this philosopher,” and I was like, “That’s prince of the– pr– He’s saying–“ Oh, wait. No.

Em: Wh–

Christine: It said king of– Sorry. [laughs] Sorry! I just ruined the whole story. It said “King of J-U-N-G.” And I was like, “He’s saying King of the Jungle.” And they were like–

Em: Ohh.

Christine: –“No, he’s– There– It’s Carl Jung.” And I was like, “No, it’s– Like the Bengals. King of the Jung– He’s saying King of the Jungle is–“

Em: A-ha.

Christine: Prince of the jungle, whatever. I think it was King of the Jungle. And my teacher was like, “No, it’s Carl Jung.” And that’s when I was like– What’s the, the thing of like the easiest– the most obvious–

Em: Oh, the z– the zebra stripes thing? It’s like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s like sometimes it’s just the most obvious answer in front of you.

Christine: Exactly, exactly. And–

Em: Um, and also in that moment, I would have been like, “Oh, so adults are also like not that smart [laughs] sometimes.”

Christine: That’s the moment I realized. I was like, “I’m smarter than you. And that’s been true for a long time, and I’ve known that for a while, but now I kind of am pretty solidly convinced of it.” Um–

Em: Well, as an adult, I feel the same way about, um, my– the, the death threat that my friend got where as a kid, I was just thinking of it as like a Nancy Drew. I was like, “Who done it?”

Christine: Yes. It felt like a Nancy Drew. Yes, yes.

Em: But as an adult, I’m like, “The teachers did not fucking handle that well.”

Christine: No, that– that’s the other thing is like, what the fuck were they doing? Like nobody handled any of that well at all.

Em: Yeah. Yeah.

Christine: And I wonder if it was like – and not to be like that guy, but like pre-9/11. I don’t know if it was like just a different time. Like I don’t know.

Em: Yeah. I mean, as– So right now my h– town–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –my neighborhood has a bit of a scandal because there was a kid who I guess has been making death threats at school.

Christine: Oh no.

Em: And the– It like is in the papers and everything. So like I can’t imagine the–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –what the family is going through right now here, knowing that like–

Christine: Well, and now you have techno– I mean, we didn’t– we had a fucking bathroom stall. Now you have– And AIM, but like now, I mean, think about the shit with AI and everything you can do.

Em: I know. And also like this is in the world of school shootings and stuff too. ’Cause like–

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. That’s so scary.

Em: In, in 2000, when I was in third grade, there wasn’t any of that going on. So that–

Christine: We didn't have that on our radar as much.

Em: I think the death threat wasn’t even taken seriously.

Christine: Oh, I think we should, I think we should also add that as a context, like if– as context if anybody out there like either just– ’Cause it didn’t really occur to me to mention this either, but it’s a good point, Em. Like if you’re younger and you didn’t know a time before like people thought about school shootings–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –but like when we were that age, at least S– our do– the school doors were just always like propped open. It was springtime. We’d just leave all the doors open. There wasn’t– There was a de– front desk, but there wasn’t like real security. Like people just didn’t think about that at th–

Em: It just wasn’t–

Christine: –at that point.

Em: It just wasn’t a thing and so then when–

Christine: And so you’re right. A death threat wasn’t– didn’t hold maybe the same weight as it might today.

Em: I think it was also at a time when, um, bullying was like more accepted by teachers or something in like a really fucked up way.

Christine: Yeah. It just was sort of part of the process. Yeah.

Em: And so now– So then to see a death threat on a door–

Christine: It’s like–

Em: –and no child has ever died at school before and bullying is normal–

Christine: It's like an ‘80s movie. It’s like, “Well, whatever,” you know. “The ’80– That happened in the ‘80s, so it’s fine–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–to happen in the 2000s.” I don’t know. Things changed, I guess, but–

Em: No, I– How did we get here? Anyway– Oh.

Christine: Sorry.

Em: So, um–

Christine: Oh, the scandal.

Em: The scan– the– No, the drawing of the, um, sex figures.

Christine: Oh, oh, oh, oh. Okay. Um–

Em: [chuckles] I don’t know how we got this far away, but, uh–

Christine: Oh, you said what would make somebody think of you?

Em: Yes. And unfortunately–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –for you, it would– your–

Christine: Did that answer your question?

Em: You’re thinking of somebody who drew that, that awful thing that now you have drawn for shock value when I’m in the middle of being asked an interview question on live TV.

Christine: But it is– Yeah, exactly. And I like to, I like to perpetuate–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: You know what’s so funny is I wonder if– I mean, I was gonna say I wonder if they remember. They probably remember.

Em: They have to remember. There’s no way they–

Christine: They have to remember. And I remember the one girl, I think she didn’t talk to us anymore, and I was like–

Em: I bet she was embarrassed.

Christine: –“I know I was–“ She was probably mortified and like pissed off. Um, also just so you know, I’m drinking the world’s largest iced coffee.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Look at this Mira– Got my Mirage Las Vegas cup out.

[Christine holds up her iced coffee in a clear cup with “Mirage” in black cursive writing on it with green and yellow palm trees above it.]

Em: Ah, love it.

Christine: Bad boy. Um, are you drinking anything today?

Em: I, I am drinking what will become a raspberry lemonade. [holds up a water bottle and pink packet of drink powder] Hang on, please. While I do live–

Christine: Right before our very eyes?

Em: –live mixology. And–

Christine: Okay. While you do that, may I, uh, mention an exciting update about our Patreon?

Em: Yes!

Christine: Alright. So, uh, Megan, our lovely, lovely, wonderful, and talented, and also badass and like fighting wildfires and–

Em: Literally a firefighter.

Christine: –saving animals and shit– like literally out there, just like volunteering to like save the world. Anyway, Megan suggested– She’s– I know, the Megan thing, but we gave her a pass for all of the other things we just mentioned.

Em: All the life-saving things she does.

Christine: Yeah, she finally made the cut.

Em: Hang on.

[Em holds the water bottle up, now filled with pink liquid, over their shoulder to shake it like a bartender would for a cocktail.]

Em: That’s how they do it, right? The, the bartenders.

Christine: You look like a professional.

Em: Thank you. I was worried it looked sexual for a second. [chuckles] Whatever.

Christine: I mean, listen.

Em: Whatever.

Christine: We already talked about the drawing from 10th grade. I think anything else–

Em: Don’t draw this.

[Em lifts the water bottle up, shaking it at a 45 degree angle in front of them.]

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Whatever you do, don’t ever envision that again.

Christine: I know what you mean. I know what you mean. Oh, oh! Part of the drawing was that s– that she got a head injury because she was having sex on the desk.

[Em shakes their head in shock, looking up towards the ceiling and covering their mouth with their hand.]

Christine: That’s what it was. Sorry.

Em: [muffled by their hand over their mouth] It just keeps g–

Christine: I just remember there was like more detail to it.

Em: [still muffled] It just–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –keeps getting worse, just keeps getting worse.

Christine: I just remember– I was like, “There was a reason–“ Okay. Anyway, uh, so I wanted to add real quick that we have an exciting update Megan wanted us to mention. Um, she’s worked so hard on our Patreon and all our social media, um, and just so much more. She has a lot that she handles alongside Katie. We are just thankful for Katie, Jack, Megan – just while we’re here.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, we’ll give them a little shout-out, and, of course, our Eva Diva. Anyway, we have ad-free episodes now available on Patreon, folks. It starts at episode 469. So they’re the more recent episodes, and if you’re a Happy Yapper– uh, if you’re a Happy Yapper – that’s a new tier Megan made, and it’s awesome – uh, for $10 a month, you can have access to ad-free episodes, so you won’t have to hear our beautiful discussions about like o-our sleeping–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –my boobs, our dogs, like whatever the hell we talk about in all the ads.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, but so we’re excited about that, and we have a lot of other fun stuff on Patreon, of course. So if you are interested, you can head over to patreon.com/atwwdpodcast, I believe it is. And we also, um, have a Yappy Hour that you get access to that shows up right in your feed, and it’s an intermission we do during the episode between Em’s story and my story.

Em: That was a great–

Christine: Thanks.

Em: –hear ye, hear ye. I would have not been able to do it so succinctly.

Christine: Thank you so much.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Um, I wanted to tell you real quick. May I tell you? I know we’re kind of going along, but I have something I have to tell you that I completely forgot when I talked about– I got distracted by Disney last week, but a ghost thing happened.

Em: [gasps]

Christine: Like a real ghost. Like a scary ghost thing. Like one that like really scared me badly.

Em: To you?

Christine: To me, scared me. Well, I was with Leona.

Em: Oh!

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Did the daddy thing happen or was it bad? It was not good?

Christine: It was different from that. I’ll read it to you ’cause I wrote it out–

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: –’cause I was so creeped out. And I, I actually text– Oh my god, it was so weird. Okay. And, of course, I sent it to my mom, and she was like, “Ha-ha.” And I’m like, “What the fuck?” Like, “Read the room, lady.” She’s like, “That’s interesting.” And I’m like, “What?”

Em: Y– I won’t give you that reaction. I need you to tell me what happened.

Christine: “The demons are here.” Okay, let’s find it. I gotta scroll past all the Daisy Duck pictures I sent. Oh my god.

Em: Daisy Duck is that girl, so.

Christine: She is that girl.

Em: I know.

Christine: Dude, she and, uh, Aristocat– Marie from Aristocats, I’m like [sighs]. They’re babes. I love them. Got to love them.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Okay. Oh my Christ in heaven. Oh, what are you drinking by the way while I look for this?

Em: I– Well, now that it’s made, um, some “raslem.”

Christine: Oh, right. Of course, your, your raslem. [laughs]

Em: Yeah, forget it.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: Um, no, I’m a – hopefully they’re not cancelled – Crystal Light fan.

Christine: Mm.

Em: Crystal Light, please be nice to people and vote the right way. Um, but damn it, I love their raslem. [groans] Gets me going every time. Um–

Christine: Raslem.

Em: [holds up the pink packet of Crystal Light Raspberry Lemonade flavor to the camera] In case anyone wants to drink what I drink, little raspberry lemonade. Um, it literally gets me cooking every time.

Christine: Really?

Em: Every time I drink it, I go, “Oh, god damn it. This is good.”

Christine: I’m so happy to hear that.

Em: Not an ad, by the way, but let me know, raslem, if you want in on this.

Christine: Yeah. I wish it were an ad.

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: I bet you they got the big bucks, those guys, you know.

Em: Yeah, they don’t need, they don’t need us, but I need them. I’ll tell you that.

Christine: W– Well, yeah, pay– I mean, but they got the bucks to pay us. Okay, here we go. First of all, I have another quote here where she said to Blaise, “Do you like my tank top? It has spaghetti sleeves.” [laughs]

Em: Who said this? Daisy Duck?

Christine: No, Leona. Sorry.

Em: Oh. Oh, oh, sorry. I was–

Christine: [laughs] I’m so sorry. That was completely out of context with–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –the last person I discussed was the cat from Aristocats– so I’m sorry. I met Leona.

Em: Okay, got it.

Christine: She said– She calls them spaghetti sleeves, and I just can’t–

Em: I love that.

Christine: –I can’t fix it ’cause I just think it’s so cute. Okay.

Em: Precious.

Christine: This is what I sent my mother at 8:50 p.m. on Saturday, March 7.

Em: Okay, ten days ago.

Christine: “Leona saw something in the dark hallway outside her room during bedtime and did a double take. She said, ‘I thought that was Daddy.’ My heart jumped, and I said, ‘Nope, Daddy’s still on the way home from the gym.’ And she said, ‘Then who was that?’”

Em: Oh no.

Christine: “I said, ‘Maybe it was Moonshine,’ and she said, ‘No, it was a really big person.’”

Em: [gasps]

Christine: “‘Even bigger than Daddy.’”

Em: Oh. Oh, hey. Hm?

Christine: “And then she walked up, and she said, ‘I’m gonna close the door now,’ and I said, ‘I think that’s a good idea.’ And she closed the door, and I said, ‘What we do is we say–‘“ Oh, so wait, hold on. So then– “She closed– She said, ’It’s even bigger than Daddy.’ She walked up, slammed the door closed.” Literally that second, I hear [makes a mechanical sound], and the garage door is opening, and Blaise is pulling into the house. And I’m like, “What the fuck was that?” And then I text Blaise like– ’Cause sometimes he sits in the car for a minute and like finishes a podcast episode or something, and I’m like, “Come in the house immediately ’cause either someone’s in here– Like I don’t know.” I was checking the doorbells. But yeah, she’s like, “Then who was that?” And I was like–

Em: Baby’s first ghost.

Christine: I don’t like it.

Em: Do you have any cameras like in the house pointing in random areas?

Christine: No, I don’t.

Em: We, we have that because of– We don’t use them anymore, but it was when we would leave Hank–

Christine: I will say I have some. I just never like– It’s, it’s hard to like keep up with them, isn’t it? ’Cause it’s like you either have a different app that you have to be checking and then you have a subscription, and it’s like–

Em: If you have the right subscription, aka the most expensive, it– they– it records everything, so you can just go play whatever you want, but–

Christine: See, that– Yeah, maybe if I did that. But yeah, that’s so fucking annoying and expensive. And I’m like I also feel kind of weird just constantly filming the house, but we have a lot more going– Like I feel like here we have like, like my mom and my brother are always here to like–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –record or work and, um– I don’t know. And Leona and stuff.

Em: Yeah. No, we had it when, uh– We haven’t used it in a while, but, uh, we got it when Hank’s–

Christine: Yeah, that’s smart. That’s really smart.

Em: ’Cause he was destroying everything, and I was like, “Do I need to get help?”

Christine: We have like a Furbo.

Em: What’s that?

Christine: We have a Furbo I could set up.

Em: Oh, a Furbo. Yeah. I mean, especially if there’s something like–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –in her hallway and you think that’s the weirdest feeling area– Didn’t you say something like–

Christine: Well, and that’s– And that’s the fucking spot where the daddy– where I heard that. And that’s also the same spot where the gu– the k– the man, the man I saw outside was like, “I used to live in that housing when it was apartments, and I was pushed down the stairs at four years old or five,” and he said he looked up, and there was this stern-looking woman at the top of the stairs who had pushed him down those stairs. And those are literally the ones next to her door with a baby gate now.

Em: Mm.

Christine: But like just weird, dude.

Em: Yeah. I don’t like that it happened right around four or five for that guy, and now four or five, she’s seen like baby’s first ghost.

Christine: Isn’t that weird? The timing? Yeah.

Em: Oy-ai-ai. I wonder if, um, the daddy is the kid of that man-ghost she just saw.

Christine: Mm. Maybe.

Em: I don’t know. And maybe that’s why he’s– he, not in a creepy way– or I guess in a creepy way, but not in a sexual way, is interested in like four or five year olds ’cause maybe they remind him–

Christine: It’s just like–

Em: –of his daughter who’s saying, “Daddy,” you know?

Christine: Right, like the, the co– the environment of it would like be– Right. Right, right, right.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Might activate something. Yeah. I wonder and– [sighs] I mean, her current fear– her biggest fear right now is wolves.

Em: Okay. That’s a good fear.

Christine: And we– Yeah, we talk about it every day, and we’ve really talked it through, and she understands that wolves don’t really dress up as your grandma–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –and eat you, but she’s having trouble kind of, uh, integrating that with her, [chuckles] with her kind of nervous system. So we’re working on just saying, “Let’s think about it for a minute. Do you think wolves can come in the locked door? I don’t know.” But now she’s seeing a big fucking man walking around, and I’m like, “Well, all bets are off, I guess.”

Em: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a, that’s a toughy. Hm.

Christine: Weird.

Em: It’s moments like this where like all I wanna do is like put like a REM pod in the hallway next to her room while she’s sleeping. [chuckles]

Christine: I mean, maybe I should. I have an EMF detector right there. I have, I have shit everywhere. You’re right. Maybe during the Yappy Hour, um, I can, uh, try to communicate with the ghost with my, with my app.

Em: If you had like a REM pod or something, it would be interesting if you just left it in the hall like–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –and then during Yappy Hour, if we just heard it go off.

Christine: Mm.

Em: That–

Christine: Can you imagine though? Like–

Em: Yeah, maybe you don’t wanna know.

Christine: My pets would fucking–

Em: Oh, yeah. Walk by, sit. [chuckles]

Christine: –either pee on the fl– like freak the F out.

Em: Good point. Good point. I forgot about that. Hm. Well, that’s horrifying. Is she–

Christine: Maybe on a day Leona’s not like out of school. ’Cause she is out of school this week on spring break, and, um, it makes life exponentially more fun and also difficult because [laughs] she’s always home, so.

Em: Sure. That’s, that’s a good point. Yeah. I’m on s–

Christine: I told her– Blaise said, “I’ll take you to the mall today.” And sh– ’Cause like she would not– She was like, “I’m not leaving. I’m not leaving the house.” And Blaise was like, “Let’s–” And I had to record, and he was like, “Let– I’ll take you to the mall,” and she’s like, “I’ll put my shoes on.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: So they’re going to the mall.

Em: “Be right there.”

Christine: “Be right there.”

Em: “Wait in the car for me.”

Christine: “Say less.”

Em: Oh, that’s so awful. Well, I’m s– I hope he never comes back. Although, we did always anticipate this day, didn’t we? So–

Christine: We sure did, and I was excited for it.

Em: Hm. Well, I think ’cause we were both hoping it would just be like, [chuckles] like the loveliest encounter.

Christine: “Look, a kitty cat ghost!” Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Yeah. Hm. Well, keep us posted because that sounds really, um–

Christine: I sure will.

Em: –spooky.

Christine: Yeah. And, uh, during the Yappy Hour, we’ll try to chit-chat. Well, I’ll chat him up. I’ll try to be– I’ll try to shmooze him, wine and dine him a little. Um, so if you’re–

Em: I mean–

Christine: –a Patreon member, you can access that. Otherwise, you know–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –you don’t have to listen to me trying to shmooze a ghost.

Em: If it, if it’s that hairy guy, I would just go into the hall and be like, “Listen!”

Christine: “Cut it out.”

Em: “Back up,” you know. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “You cut it out, we’re telling you.” Um–

Christine: We did actually. That is what I told her. I said, I said, “What we can do–“ ’Cause I’ve, of course, researched this and read on this and–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –stayed up a– late at night reading Reddit stories and stuff. But what I said was, you know, “Anyone you don’t feel comfortable having in your room is not welcome.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “And you can say, ‘You’re not to enter my room or any of my space.’” And she slammed the door, and I was like, “I think that’s good.” As long as it’s a ghost, I think we’re good. If it was like a real person, I don’t know that would work. But I– There was nobody in the house, so.

Em: I started saying, um, recently– which, not that she needs to say this ’cause I think it might be a little like verbally tricky, but, um, I’ve started saying specifically out loud, “If I have not known and loved you in this lifetime.”

Christine: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Em: I’m like– I– It has to be this lifetime ’cause maybe we knew each other in another one, you’re just checking in, but you’re freaking me the fuck out.

Christine: You don’t want them? You don’t want them to come?

Em: I–

Christine: I do.

Em: I mean, I do, but I also don’t know. I’m like, “Am I accidentally–“ Hm. Maybe I should s– a– Maybe I should edit that. “If I’ve known or–“

Christine: What if you say–

Em: “If I’ve known and loved you in any of my lifetimes.”

Christine: What if you say like, “for my best–“ Or what if you say like “for my best and highest good,” or what if you say like, “only if you come in love and light or with–“

Em: Sure.

Christine: “–loving intention.”

Em: “If you’re not here with, with, with love in your heart.” [laughs] I don’t know.

Christine: [singing in a country music style] ♪ With love in your– If you ain’t here with a love in your heart ♪♪ [chuckles]

Em: [laughs] And actually, you know what? I do need to edit it because the one time I felt something really fucking eerie and I said that out loud– It did go away. Like it worked. I remember–

Christine: [gasps] I remember.

Em: And– But it was, it was someone in my family that I did know and at one point love, but they were not a good person. And–

Christine: They found a loophole.

Em: And I, I just walked into our recording room and, uh– into the troll hole back in the apartment, and I, I remember going in, and I’ve never felt anything like that, but it was like–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –it’s what you hope Zak Bagans is being honest about in–

Christine: Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Em: I walked in, and I was like, “Something fucking awful is in this room–“

Christine: [sighs]

Em: “–and all eyes are on me right now.” And we had just come back from investigating.

Christine: Yes.

Em: And so I was like, “Maybe I brought something in here–“

Christine: Eugh.

Em: “–because all the equipment’s in this room. Maybe it’s just like sitting in here.” I didn’t know what it was, but I, I shouted out loud. I was like, “I don’t know what’s going on. I can feel you here. You have to leave.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “I’m not here for this. If I haven’t known and loved you in this lifetime, you have to leave.” And then it was s– It stayed for a second.

Christine: Ahh!

Em: I was like–

Christine: You’re like, “Something’s up.”

Em: And I was like, “Okay. Well, if I did know and love you, you would not make me feel this way. You have to leave anyway. I– You have to leave.” Um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –and, and then an hour later, my aunt called and said that her mom had died, and it–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: I was like, “Ooh, she was coming to say goodbye.”

Christine: I forgot that– I forgot about that second part.

Em: Yeah. And it felt exactly as ominous as I would–

Christine: Did you–

Em: –anticipate her spirit feeling. [laughs]

Christine: When you– Like you were like, “Oh, shit. Yeah, that’s, that’s her.”

Em: Y-yeah.

Christine: Did you realize it was her before you got the call? Or were you like–

Em: [shakes their head]

Christine: Oh, wow.

Em: I, I knew it was someone I knew. I feel like something’s happening right now as we’re talking about it.

Christine: [gasps] Me too.

Em: You have to go away. You’re not here.

Christine: Me too. Me too.

Em: No, no, no, no, no. We don’t do that here. Out– Off you go.

Christine: I don’t feel good.

Em: Off you go. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. [laughs] Goodbye. Goodbye. Goodbye. Um–

Christine: Love and life.

Em: [singing] ♪ Goodbye ♪♪ That’s usually how I end it in the haunted houses.

Christine: What was my country song? Quick. [singing] ♪ If you ain’t here– ♪

Em: [singing] ♪ Love in your heart ♪♪

Christine: ♪ –with the love in your heart, get out of my room, you big old fart. I said, go. Go. ♪♪ [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Anyway, witches of the world, if you have advice on any– if any of that should be edited– [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –let me know. But currently, you just witnessed us–

Christine: That scared the shit out of me.

Em: You witnessed us in real time–

Christine: That scared me.

Em: –what the end of our investigations look like.

Christine: ’Cause the second that happened, I got this like creepy tingle up my back and my neck and my scalp.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: The second you said you felt something. Ah!

Em: Yeah. Anyway, that’s the, the–

Christine: What is this bitch’s problem, Em? What did she do–

Em: She loves attention.

Christine: What did you do to her?

Em: She loves it. I did nothing. All right?

Christine: Jesus.

Em: I did nothing. Um–

[Christine gets up from the couch and moves off-camera.]

Em: Oh, she’s gone. She said, “This is, this is too much.”

Christine: I need a pillow to hold on to.

Em: [laughs]

[Christine returns with a pillow, sitting back down and holding it.]

Em: Um, she– Yeah. No, but so– I, I didn’t know it was her in the moment, but when I felt something ominous, I was like, “I– This is a, a feeling I hate. And it, it feels like it’s supposed to be like imposing, but for some reason, it feels familiar. And I don’t know why those two things would go hand in hand in one spirit.”

Christine: That is so creepy. You know what that reminds me of? That kind of like loophole of when your stepmom put the barrier around the house–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –uh, the ward around the house, and then it was like, “Oh, but it was on the perimeter.”

Em: I, I could feel it–

Christine: Oh!

Em: I could literally feel it like pressing– So for those who don’t remember the story–

Christine: [yelling] Aghh!

Em: For those who don’t remember the story–

Christine: I’m so scared!

Em: –my, my dad’s house is super duper holy shit haunted.

Christine: Like Civil War battlefield shit.

Em: Like, like previous owners are just buried in the backyard, and like children are buried in the backyard. Like it’s–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –very gross. And then they live in like a very small area that has like a neighborhood cemetery where there’s like 30 people, and th– it’s within walk– It’s– There’s a lot of dead people on our property. Um, and my stepmom is Wiccan, and, um, she always said, “If you ever feel anything, you tell me, and I’ll, I’ll he– I’ll fix it.” But I used to feel this thing at night that was so heinous, so disgusting. And I, I mean, I– It was– I’ve never–

Christine: Like up in your face. Like in your grill.

Em: Like if it had human physical lips, I would have felt it breathing on me.

Christine: Eugh!

Em: Like it’s– And it was im– trying to scare me. And it was working. Um, and she– I ended up telling her about it. She said, “Okay, I’m not gonna tell you what I’m doing, but, uh, I’m gonna do something, and tell me how you feel tomorrow.” And I felt fine in the room, but I swear to god, it felt like someone was trying to break into the house and their face was like pressed against the window all night long.

Christine: Ugh.

Em: And she had only blessed the house, but not the perimeter of the house. So then the next day, she blessed the perimeter of the house. And I’ve never had a problem in that house since, but it was, um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: But it, it felt– It did not feel as dark as that, but it felt like the when my step–

Christine: Unwelcome.

Em: When my step-grandma died, it felt like she knew she was in my space and stepping boundaries.

Christine: Like she still had like an issue. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Yeah, I think she probably came to me because she knew all about the ghost hunting, and she was probably like, “Well, if I’m gonna get anyone’s attention, it’ll be you.” Um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: And within 30 seconds, I was like, “Off you go. See you. Don’t come back.” [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. “Nice, nice seeing you. Bye.”

Em: I’m so sorry about Leona, though. That’s– That– Hopefully, that doesn’t happen again for her.

Christine: Uh– [sighs]

Em: And at least it seems like you made it a positive to neutral experience.

Christine: I tried to, and I was really lucky that Blaise got home right then ’cause I was like– And again, like I’ve talked about this a little bit. I’ve been having some– I– not to be too specific, but just some like interpersonal issues with people in my life, and I’ve been like very on edge as it is.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And so when she’s like– So sometimes I’m like, “Is this just like a manifestation of like the frenzied kind of energy? Is it like because of her–“

Em: Like– Oh, that’s sad that you’re, you’re, you’re wondering if you’ve brought it upon her.

Christine: I know. My fear is like is this like poltergeist-y? Like I’m like stirring shit up. But then, you know, I hope– I mean, people say, you know, that like your intention is what matters. So I taught her like you just tell them like you’re not welcome, which of course we teach her anyway for human people, right? Like–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –so in that regard, it’s a little easier ’cause you kind of know what to say. Like you have boundaries, just like you do with a regular person.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, unless they’re a murderer, then we’re probably screwed. But it seems like they were not. I, I– It was when she said he was “so much bigger than Daddy.” I was like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: I mean, Blaise isn’t like tall, but I was still like, “That’s a terrible thing to say.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “I’m terrified.”

Em: It, it–

Christine: [laughs] That’s the worst thing you could say.

Em: It does sound like, “Oh, yep. Everyone here can be overpowered by this person.”

Christine: She goes, “A really big person.” And I’m like, “Eugh!”

Em: I really hope that it wasn’t testing the waters and like trying to see like– Like I–

Christine: The way she kind of explained it is that he was like walking through the hall and down the stair– like just like walked past.

Em: Okay.

Christine: And she was like, “Oh, I thought that was Daddy.” Like it was almost like he just walked past. So I, I think it wasn’t like trying to be ominous.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And she didn’t seem that scared, really. She didn’t seem scared at all. She was just like, “Eugh.” And I said, “Just close the door.” But yeah, it’s weird.

Em: Hm. I don’t know what to say except that’s scary.

Christine: Mm. [laughs]

Em: That sucks. I don’t envy that situation, but I also– I hope it’s gone. I hope it’s over.

Christine: Thank you. I do too.

Em: Um, as much as I always really wanted there to be like a, like a quest, a ghostly quest for your daughter, I, I also don’t really want that for your daughter.

Christine: Same. I’m like I want that for me, not necessarily for her though. You know, like–

Em: I want it to begin once she’s old enough to handle it.

Christine: To, to like enjoy it herself, or to at least handle it. Yeah, yeah. Fair.

Em: [laughs] To enjoy it. You see, yes.

Christine: To enjoy it.

Em: You get it.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Oy-ai-ai. Well, is there a reason why you drink? Or is that the reason why you drink?

Christine: Oh, that’s the reason. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Big time.

Em: My– The reason why I drink: I have not planned a single thing. I have not packed a single thing, but tomorrow is my like my trip, uh–

Christine: I’m so excited.

Em: I, I haven’t traveled in a while, a long time–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: – long time for me at least, so.

Christine: It does feel weird to pack when you haven’t tr– I was packing for Disney, and I was like, “How do I do this?”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “I don’t remember.”

Em: I used to– I mean, when we were like on tour, I feel like I always had a suitcase ready with like all the like backup toiletries and stuff. So I, I really only had to put clothes in there, and everything else was already handled.

Christine: Same. It was already there. Yeah.

Em: And now I’m like, “I gotta start from scratch? It sounds exhausting.”

Christine: I’m like, “Do I brush my teeth on vacation? I forget.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um, and I also– I, I don’t know how this is gonna go because I– I don’t know. Like I’m sorry, but like Idaho isn’t like New York City. Like I’m wondering like will there be enough things to do? Like do I– Should I come home early?

Christine: Oh, you’ll find a way. We were high schoolers before the inter– Well, not before the internet, but before like iPhones. You can fi– You’ll, you’ll find a way to enjoy yourself.

Em: Me and my rental car will, will take off even– somewhere.

Christine: Yeah, yeah. You’ll adventure.

Em: But I– Yeah, it’s– I’m, I’m much less prepared than I usually am. So I also– I’m kind of landing and just hoping it–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –I figure my way out, so. Anyway, uh, that’s why I drink ’cause I’m gonna be back on the road for myself, but I also, um– I don’t know. I– It’ll also be Allison’s first week alone with the dog–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –which is very interesting.

Christine: Trading places.

Em: I know. All of a sudden, he’s gonna be like, “Where’s the other one? Why– [laughs] What’s going on here?”

Christine: Like, “One, two– Wait a minute.”

Em: Yeah, “I’m not used to this setup.” Um, anyway, that’s, that’s why I drink. I’ll– When I see you next, I’ll report back on how wonderful that potato was, uh–

Christine: How thri– how thrilling this tableside potato service was.

Em: I’m so excited about the tableside potato service.

Christine: I can’t wait to hear about it.

Em: I’m telling you, if it’s– if, if they’re claiming to have like the best potato in Idaho, they are claiming to have the best potato in the country. Right?

Christine: I would say you’re right ’cause I think that’s some sort of mathematical property.

Em: I think so, too.

Christine: ’Cause it’s inside the parentheses, right?

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Or something?

Em: In that case, I really– FOIL? Is that what you’re talking about?

Christine: Oh my god. Yeah. PEMDAS, anybody? [laughs]

Em: And also potatoes are wrapped in foil.

Christine: Oh!

Em: [singing The X-Files theme song] ♪ Duh-duh duh-duh duh-duh ♪♪

Christine: Now we’re cooking. See what I mean?

Em: Okay. Anyway, I’ll let everybody know how that potato was. Um–

Christine: Thanks.

Em: –and Idaho, do your best, please, to give me a good time because I’m a little nervous about you. I, I–

Christine: Oh, it’ll be awesome. I bet it’s beautiful there.

Em: I– It will look beautiful. I’ve heard it will look beautiful, but I, I really don’t know anything about this town at all. So it feels like uncharted waters for me, which I hope [chuckles] Idaho takes as a compliment, but–

Christine: Uncharted waters.

Em: [laughs] You’re so mysterious to me, Idaho.

Christine: What are you, Lewis and Clark? Jesus.

Em: [sighs] Call– I’ll call the Chamber of Commerce, and let them know I’m on the way. And hopefully, they–

Christine: Oh, they’ll pull out–

Em: –they’ll whip something up for me so it stays interesting.

Christine: –the red carpet, I’m sure.

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Em’s Story – Zak Bagans's Return to the Goldfield Hotel - Part 3

Em: Okay, so I– This was not meant to be a three-parter. I never do these. But, um, as you know, we– I lost track of time last time, so now I’ve–

Christine: Let's make it an eight-parter.

Em: Hm?

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Maybe.

Christine: No, no.

Em: Maybe not though. I will s–

Christine: Okay, three is fine. I’ll take three for now.

Em: Three is fine. I, um– If I ever did more than three, I think I’d be like, “Okay, back the fuck up.” Like–

Christine: But I will say this is sort of like, um, you don’t need to have listened to the other two, right? Like it’s its own story?

Em: It’s–

Christine: Or does it need–

Em: Do you know what I’m covering?

Christine: I forget already.

Em: Incredible.

Christine: I do vaguely remember. [laughs]

Em: Technically, this could be a standalone, but I think you would want to listen to the last two episodes first.

Christine: This is something about Zak Bagans, question mark?

Em: Sure is.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So what I planned on covering last week was Zak Bagans’s investigations to the Goldfield Hotel because–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –the episode before was the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Right.

Em: Um, and then what I said last week was that Zak has done four different investigations here. One was the very first documentary ever.

Christine: Ohh.

Em: Two of them have been taken off of streamers and I cannot find because they involved the Constantinos, which he was close with–

Christine: Oh, yes.

Em: –and they’ve, they’ve since passed.

Christine: Oh, yes.

Em: So there was only one episode I could watch after his original documentary–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –which was very fun to– It was a very fun night and day comparison–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –because, uh, the very first time he ever went there, it was before Ghost Adventures even existed. This was supposed to be like–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –a one-time documentary in 2004. And the one that I’m going to cover today was during COVID. It was like 2021.

Christine: That’s bizarre, dude.

Em: So this is the return– Zak, Zak Bagans’s return to the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Ah!

Em: Um, so this was a special. It was a three night stay, which I guess during his investigations– I don’t know how long they actually investigate a location.

Christine: That seems long.

Em: I imagine just like one day.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Maybe two. But this was a three-nighter ’cause it was–

Christine: But they wear their own– They wear the same outfit. Like I feel like they do one day.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Like I, I feel like he wouldn’t wear the same outfit three days, like–

Em: Unless he’s like a cartoon character and all of– everything in his closet is just a solid black tee.

Christine: Like Johnny Bravo.

Em: Yes.

Christine: He's Johnny Bravo. Yeah.

Em: I– Literally, in a lot of ways–

Christine: I know.

Em: If Johnny Bravo–

Christine: I know. And then you said black tee, and I was like, “Hang on.”

Em: If Johnny Bravo dyed his hair and put a bunch of like cross tattoos on his body, they– I would not be able to tell them apart.

Christine: Hey, less we forget what ZB looked like on Wheel of Fortune, or whatever game he was on.

Em: A stick.

Christine: Price Is Right? What was it? Wheel of Fortune.

Em: Something like that. I don’t know.

Christine: But he got that blonde hair, like he could have been, you know.

Em: You’re totally right. Johnny Bravo doesn’t even need to dye his hair. Zak just goes back to his normal hair.

Christine: His roots, so to speak. Yeah.

Em: His roots. I love that. Um, wow. You’re really– That is a mystery for another day, I suppose. Um–

Christine: I suppose.

Em: Are they the same? Zak Bravo, Johnny Bagans? I don’t know.

Christine: Holy shit.

Em: You tell me. Um, so anyway, he goes, and he– At this point in 2021, he’s already had decades of ghost adventuring. Um–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –I mean, literally 17 years since 2004, and it was in 2021.

Christine: Damn.

Em: So almost 20 years of Ghost Adventures was in his life. This was not too long ago from our present day. So um, he is in full Zak swing. And I will tell you the first line of his um, his stay. By the way, we can just call this like a, a rewatch episode or, or–

Christine: I love it.

Em: –whatever it is, those like, those–

Christine: A commentary.

Em: A commentary ’cause the, the whole episode is– Our whole episode is me talking about this one episode. It’s–

Christine: Let’s call it an artistic critique.

Em: Sure. It was meant to be part of last week’s, but– I didn’t mean for this to happen, but here we are. Okay. First line–

Christine: [chuckles] “I didn’t mean for this to happen. Sit down and listen.”

Em: [chuckles] First line of the episode, 17 years later: [in a deep voice to mimic Zak Bagans] “When you start talking about our investigations, there’s only a few that I can count that have hit us extremely personal“ – he meant personally – “that have scared the absolute hell out of us.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “And one of those places is where we all started at the Goldfield Hotel.” And then in this intro, he says that, um– ’Cause it’s a very long intro. It's a full-blown monologue. He talks about that they’re back because ever since they went to the Goldfield Hotel for the very first time, there is now, quote, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “an infection of darkness, of pure negativity, that has infected the building.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “Does it have to do with the deaths of the people that were so intensely involved and connected to this building?” So–

Christine: I mean, okay. [laughs] Okay, first of all, really, really props for [over-enunciating] “negativity” is very good. Um–

Em: [laughs] I thought I did a good job. I felt good about that.

Christine: Excellent work.

Em: Thank you.

Christine: Excellent work. Uh, I just– It’s so jarring because the first line– It reminds me of that whole Emerson thing from last time, but that first line is like a normal thing to say–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –and you know he says it in that crazy way that you do, like– that you just did, like [gibberish in a deep voice]. And it’s like you’re literally just saying, “Hey, we haven’t been here in a while, and like it’s gonna be scary.” Like why do you need to say it like that? But then the second half is like [mimicking Zak Bagans] “There is a d–“ Like–

Em: “An infection of darkness–“

Christine: –it becomes nec– Yeah.

Em: “–of pure–“

Christine: It becomes necessary for the voice. I’m like, I feel like tonally we’re confused.

Em: Yeah. I think he, he Zak-ified it. I think his producers were like–

Christine: He Zak-ified it.

Em: –“This is a very normal sentence. Just say it,” and he went, [deep voice] “No.” you know, he–

Christine: He went, [deep voice] “Okay.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “I’ll say it normally.”

Em: [deep voice] “Like this?” Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] [deep voice] “Like this?”

Em: Thank you for complime– I really– As I was saying the word “negativity,” I thought–

Christine: Oh, it was good.

Em: I thought, “I’m gonna kill this one. This one’s gonna be good.”

Christine: You got the role.

Em: Thank you. Um, but yeah, so I’ll say it like a normal person, so we can process it.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: He did say, at the end, “does this infection of darkness have to do with the deaths of the people that were so involved and connected to this building?” Basically, he’s– For someone who– And I’m– You know what, we all grieve differently, whatever. He– For someone who’s already taken down all streamers that involved any of the Constantinos being featured in his episodes–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –he’s now basically directly inserting the Constantinos into this narrative of like, “Is this place only dark and scary because the Constantinos and others have died here– or died?”

Christine: Uh, he didn’t move– He didn’t– We know he did– There’s no way he removed those willingly. You know the le– their lawyers had them remove that. I bet you a million bajillion dollars.

Em: I would also feel that way.

Christine: There’s no way he was like, “I’m grieving–“ Literally, his best friend and business partner was like almost murdered by his own wife and Zak was like, “Hang on, let me write that down. Aaron, get me a pen.” And it’s like–

Em: And I, I– Did I or did I not say– When that came out, did I or did I not say he will put that in the episode?

Christine: Immediate. And he said, “I wouldn’t do that.” And then literally a week later, it was like, “Surprise. Of course I did that.”

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: And Aaron’s like filming. And I’m like, “You’re making him film it? What is wrong with you?” So yeah, there’s no way he did that on purpose. I don’t– I’m not surprised he’s milking this shit.

Em: Well, so his belief is that when they first went there, it was already haunted, but ever since, they’ve been multiple times and brought their own demons with them. And then everybody in the paranormal community who’s grown to like investigate this place and the Constantinos constantly being– i-investigating at this place, but also being friends with him, maybe their deaths–

Christine: Hm.

Em: –and their being so involved with that building has stirred up shit. It’s a, to me, a set of mental gymnastics, but to him–

Christine: It's a little convoluted. Yeah.

Em: I think he’s just finding sentences and saying them willy-nilly. That’s what I think he’s doing.

Christine: I think that might be correct.

Em: Um, so Zak finishes the intro with this. He’s not done, by the way. He finishes–

Christine: [chuckles] Oh, wow. Silly me.

Em: –[mimicking Zak Bagans] “This is a part of our legacy. This is the final chapter of the Goldfield Hotel.”

Christine: Bullshit. You’re going to go back 16 more times.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Don’t fuck around with me. The final chapter, my ass.

Em: I– He really, um– I think he believed it when he said it.

Christine: Of course he did.

Em: Again, he’s just testing out sentences in live a–

Christine: Wait, and has he been back?

Em: –in live action. He has not been back since, but it’s only been like five years.

Christine: Oh, okay. Yeah, he’ll be back.

Em: Yeah, give it time. It– I would imagine that the whole Ghost Adventures series, if it were to ever end, will end at the Goldfield Hotel to bookend it.

Christine: Oh, a full circle.

Em: Yeah. Yeah, I think so.

Christine: Totally, totally.

Em: I wonder what he’ll call it. It’s gonna be some crazy–

Christine: [sighs] Fucking dumb as– some dumbass shit.

Em: “Aftermath,” or something stupid.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So although I can’t find the other episodes in this special, I did appreciate that the producers replayed evidence from the past episodes. So basically, um–

Christine: So you got like a recap.

Em: Yeah. Without ev– even having to watch the other–

Christine: That’s–

Em: –the two full episodes. I basically got the highlights–

Christine: That’s appreciated.

Em: –which is nice–

Christine: That’s appreciated.

Em: –um, including EVPs of a male voice clearly saying, “will kill,” and–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –“you’re in my fucking house,” and like screaming.

Christine: Jeez.

Em: Like, [in an aggressive voice] “You’re in my fucking house.”

Christine: Oh, that’s Leona learning to talk to ghosts and Zak Bagans– [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: That’s what I taught her to say whenever a large man like Zachary enters the house.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: If he looks like the shadow of Johnny Bravo, you know exactly what to say.

Em: It’s so– Yeah. Instead of saying, “If I’ve ever known and loved you in this lifetime,” say, “You’re in my fucking house!”

Christine: Em, take a lesson from my beautiful Leo Rising daughter. She’s not gonna fuck around with, with these guys anymore.

Em: Well, so– I mean, I– And I did hear the EVP. I heard– And it does sound– I mean, it’s to me pretty clear as day, and it is very scary. Um–

Christine: Right.

Em: If we got that, that would have been like a hit.

Christine: We would have probably left. Like literally left.

Em: Oh, that’s, that’s a guarantee my friend. We would have–

Christine: What is the sentence again? ’Cause I know I joked through it.

Em: First it’s, “will kill,” and then it’s, “you’re in my fucking house.”

Christine: Yeah, yeah. I’m out. I’m good. I’m– Goodbye. Goodbye.

Em: Yeah. See you. See you. See you. See you. Um, and then the voice also later said, [in an aggressive voice] “I want to talk to Zak.”

Christine: Okay.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Do you want to kill or do you want to talk to me?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: ’Cause it’s like–

Em: I’m confused.

Christine: Pick a lane. Pick a lane.

Em: They also had a, uh– In one of the previous episodes, they apparently had a whole-ass window shatter on its own in a spot where–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –people have been shoved before.

Christine: Eugh!

Em: I wish I had more context, but there we are. Um, but like I said earlier, it is a real gift to see how far Zak has changed from 2004 because–

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: –remember last time he was screaming his pantaloons off–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –and now he’s just–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –“negativity,” you know.

Christine: And he was pissed off at Aaron and– The resentment was just so a little blossoming bud.

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: It hadn’t even blossomed into what– into like, “Hey, your wife tried to kill you. Why don’t you film me talking about it?” You know?

Em: He was a twinkle in his own eye at that point.

Christine: Wow, that’s beautiful.

Em: So okay, there’s three nights. I’m gonna go night by night. So night one, Zak claims that the hotel is now a magnet for dark energy and infecting the rest of us who are still living.

Christine: True, true.

Em: Um, because the– He says basically the hotel’s responsible for killing people connected to it. If you–

Christine: Definitely.

Em: –get too close to this place, the hotel will kill you.

Christine: So he’s, he’s alluding to the Constantinos, I assume, that something– it had to do with the– Yeah, that’s–

Em: That it’s the hotel’s fault that the Constantinos, um, endured what–

Christine: Cool, that he was a domestic abuser. Okay, cool.

Em: Yes.

Christine: Just checking.

Em: Yep. Nope. You are right on the–

Christine: [laughs] Just making sure I got it.

Em: Feel like your, your– What is it? Your finger’s on the, on the ga–

Christine: Your finger’s on the pulse.

Em: Yes, finger’s on the pulse.

Christine: That’s right. That’s right.

Em: Um, so before Zak even gets to the hotel, he apparently hired a group of people to go to this hotel– And this is for the first time ever in Ghost Adventures history. He’s very proud of this. That he had a team go in–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and block out every single window so no natural light is coming through–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –for like three days, uh, before he got there. And so I guess his idea was to like–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –build up the darkness in there.

Christine: That feels like something also Leona would do.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “I’m just gonna put construction paper on the windows to build up the darkness in here,” and I’m like, “That’s not how dark works, but okay, honey.”

Em: Here are his exact words ’cause I knew that I–

Christine: Let me get the full description.

Em: I didn’t want to have to justify this in my own words. So here it is.

Christine: Thank you so much for knowing that you would have to.

Em: I, I, I was like– As I was typing it, I was like, “I will have to elaborate.”

Christine: I unfortunately would have pushed you to do that.

Em: He said this was [mimicking Zak Bagans] “to create complete darkness and see what happens when the spirits are trapped inside.”

Christine: Right. Yeah.

Em: So I think–

Christine: ’Cause they’re kind of like a parrot where if there’s a curtain over them–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –they don’t know that it’s not nighttime.

Em: Right. [laughs]

Christine: They’re like, “Bedtime! There’s a, there’s a curtain. I guess it’s night.” Yeah.

Em: I feel like, like a-as someone who craves to be– to enter a sleep study, that would be a really interesting test for me where I’m like–

Christine: Em, you know that they have– you can– you just kind of put your email down.

Em: [laughs] That’s true.

Christine: You can really do that.

Em: I also could just buy some construction paper and cover up my own fucking windows.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Em: But as someone who would like to see what complete blackout darkness would do to me, would I end up in a, in a natural sleep cycle? I don’t know. I feel like that makes sense for a living person, but this cannot be real science for a ghost.

Christine: [laughs] It doesn’t make any s– Exactly.

Em: Um–

Christine: To build the darkness.

Em: And you’re totally right. It’s– Like he’s acting like now they’re locked in as if windows were their only way out.

Christine: Yeah. Right. Maybe the shattered window. He was like, “One escaped,” you know?

Em: I could see like pissing them off and riling them up.

Christine: Oh, for sure.

Em: He should have just said that.

Christine: ’Cause it’s like if you do that days in advance, like that’s fucked up. Like if somebody was like, “I’m coming over, and a few days beforehand, I’m just gonna make you live in the pitch black for three–”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –I’d be like, “What the fuck is wrong with you, asshole?”

Em: I literally– I-if you said, “Oh, I’ll be there in a week. Also, um, tonight there should be a bunch of blackout curtains for you to install.”

Christine: Yeah. “You know those big exterminator tents?”

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: “Um, don’t worry, you don’t have a bug problem. I’m just gonna put one of those over top just to see what happens.”

Em: “Just to see what it’s like when you’re trapped inside.”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s like–

Christine: “I just want to fuck you up a little bit.”

Em: Yeah. Well, so that was his whole thing. He was like– A-apparently everyone that he interviewed was like, “Oh, the days before I got here, was it spookier?” And they were like, “Yeah, man. It was so spooky.” But also because like–

Christine: So spooky.

Em: First of all, because it’s pitch black, everything’s inherently spookier.

Christine: It’s always spooky.

Em: Two, like we’re talking about this place being so haunted that like bricks are getting thrown at people–

Christine: It’s literally like–

Em: –and windows are shattering, and you hired a bunch of random people to go in there with construction paper and, and tarps and just make them make it get infinitely darker as they were working in there?

Christine: And then talk about how scary it is for your television show? Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Can you imagine being the person– Like same with like a battery runner or something for the cameras, and it’s like you don’t even get the pat on the back for like–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –having to run through that house all by yourself, but like–

Christine: That’s scarier than anything– Yeah. Exactly. It’s not even on camera. You don’t get credit. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Um, okay. So anyway, I talked too long about that. As soon as activity hits, Zak thinks that the spirit is Mark Constantino, the guy who was married to Debbie / also killed his friend, Debbie, um–

Christine: Well, killed his wife.

Em: So–

Christine: Oh, killed Zak’s friend. Yeah, yeah.

Em: Killed Zak– Yeah. So Zak–

Christine: But his own wife.

Em: –was friends with the Constantinos. Um, and then the husband ended up, uh, committing a murder suicide, and I think Debbie and Zak in particular were very close. So–

Christine: And the two of them were also ghost hunters, right? So they would do investigation–

Em: They were also ghost hunters.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Um– Thank you. Yeah. I don’t know who’s listened to the previous episodes.

Christine: I– Yeah, I’m just filling in my own blanks too.

Em: No, but, um– but so Zak acted very– Like he didn’t even want to say Mark Constantino’s name.

Christine: Mm.

Em: So when he was like, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “I feel like it’s him. It’s him. Say it. Say his name.” And he was making other people say it, say it–

Christine: Making other people say– I thought you meant he was making the ghost, but he was making other people on the production– or like in their crew say it?

Em: Yeah. They had like– At one point, they had like a, a medium there, and the medium had known the car– Constantinos.

Christine: He wouldn’t say the name? That’s crazy.

Em: [mimicking Zak Bagans] “It s– It sounds like him. You know who I’m talking about. Say it. Say his name.” And I was like, “You say it. What is wrong with you?”

Christine: You chicken shit, what the hell is wrong with you?

Em: Unless like he’s thinking like–

Christine: You’re the one here dragging him out.

Em: –words are spells or something, and he doesn’t want to like conjure or anything. But it’s like you’re making other people do it.

Christine: Yeah, then he wants to make some– Exactly. Like fucking little baby, you do it if you’re not s-scared of anything.

Em: Uh, so a-as soon as activity happens, he’s like, “Oh, Mark’s here.”

Christine: Okay.

Em: No evidence of that.

Christine: Well, he says, “Someone’s here. You know who I mean.”

Em: [mimicking Zak Bagans] “You know. Say it.” Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So Zak then interviews two people who have been attacked by something here. During this, they get EVPs of someone saying, “Hey, Zak,” and then–

Christine: Ooh.

Em: –uh – this one was kind of fun – an EVP of someone saying, [in a sing-song voice] “Aaron, it’s Hotel Hell. Get out.”

Christine: That sounds like Chucky or something.

Em: Yeah, it does. It sounds like–

Christine: [in a creepy voice] “Aaron.” [laughs]

Em: –like a horror movie. Um, so also during this interview, Zak then– Oh, let’s travel back to the previous episode where I said that one of the things that only Ghost Adventures specifically has encountered here are possessions.

Christine: Mm, that’s right.

Em: And, um, and maybe that’s not true, but in all of the– Like reading up on this place, I didn’t see anyone else talking about getting like weird attachments.

Christine: It’s not like known for that or anything.

Em: And then as soon as Zak was there–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –and did their 2004 documentary, they were doing a seance with one of the caretakers who like then all of a sudden seemed to not be–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –herself anymore. I was like, “That’s interesting.”

Christine: Hm.

Em: And nobody’s talking about it. So now we’re back, and, uh, 17 years later, as soon as Zak gets there, he [mimicking Zak Bagans] “shows signs of an attachment affecting him.” And he says–

Christine: [sighs]

Em: –he feels something in one of the rooms. He gets unnecessarily aggressive and hostile, and he starts feeling very violent towards, um, one of the wom– one of the people he was interviewing.

Christine: Uh-oh.

Em: And the woman even asks to go back into the room with him because he’s like– He literally stops the interview. He’s like, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “I don’t even want to do this interview. Something’s in that room. We have to go in that room.” And he’s like getting really mad about it. And I don’t know why not a single person went, “Girl, back the fuck up. What’s wrong with you?”

Christine: ’Cause he probably behaves this way off-s– off-camera.

Em: I feel like there’s some like hot live mic that–

Christine: 100%.

Em: –had– has caught Aaron going, “[sighs] There he goes again.” You know, like–

Christine: Oh, probably– Yeah, probably worse than that.

Em: “He does this all the time.”

Christine: Probably like, “Cut the cameras.”

Em: Well, so he’s acting super aggressive, and he’s like, “I’m quitting the interview. I have to go into this room back here,” as if the room’s like attaching him to it. And the woman is like, “Oh, can I–“ Love that it’s a woman, by the way, and she’s not even scared of him being aggressive–

Christine: Love it.

Em: –or arguably the haunted room. And she’s like, “Oh, can I go back there with you? I just want to like be in there and see if I feel anything,” and then he starts threatening her and saying, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “You don’t want to do that. You don’t want to do that,” when like it’s just him in there.

Christine: Will you just fucking relax, guy?

Em: I know. And then the woman– At some point, she was like, “I feel kind of nauseous. I have to leave.” And I’m like–

Christine: Yeah, same girl.

Em: [laughs] We all do.

Christine: Same.

Em: So that’s the only thing that happened night one is that he acted like there was– he was getting attached to– like something was attaching to him, and he was violent, and he threatened one of the people he was interviewing and then cut the interview short. That was the whole first night.

Christine: Okay, cool.

Em: Kind of makes the attachment thing feel more believable to me, if at all, because it’s like, “Oh, that’s the only thing that happened?” usually you would milk this like–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –you heard sounds or something, but this is the only thing he said happened the first night.

Christine: True.

Em: Interesting.

Christine: And it reminds me of that first time when they went two weeks of ghost hunting before they even caught anything, you know? It’s sort of like–

Em: Yes.

Christine: –“Okay, I see you like not completely filling it with fake shit right away.”

Em: Yes, yes. I can– I– It’s like that makes me at least respect the fact–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –that you didn’t go crazy.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: So then night two, before they ever even got there, um, different Ghost Adventure members of the crew all experienced images of a violent car crash.

Christine: Oh?

Em: Like one had a nightmare about it; one had a flash in his mind; another one–

Christine: Whoa.

Em: –saw an actual car crash on the way to the hotel– to the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Which one would you rather–

Em: [chuckles] Hm.

Christine: –if you had to experience an ominous–

Em: Fuck, marry, kill.

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah, I know. If you had to experience an ominous like foreshadowing of something like that.

Em: Um, I mean, I would like to be as removed as possible, so I would just like to have a nightmare about it because then I could justify it as a nightmare.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um, because if I had a flash in my mind, I’d be like, “Did I just have a fucking premonition?” And I’d go out of my mind paranoid.

Christine: I think I would do the premonition.

Em: Really?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Fascinating.

Christine: Because– I don’t know. I, I– Dreams scare me a little bit. I think I’d be– Well–

Em: I think I– But I have so many crazy dreams that I’m like, “Okay.” Like I–

Christine: True.

Em: –had a dream recently that everyone at the dog park is a spy. You know what I mean?

Christine: [laughs] Wait, who told you?

Em: Don’t even with me.

Christine: [laughs] Hee-hee.

Em: [chuckles] Um, speaking of fuck, marry, kill, I went to, um, a bridal shower this week and– or this weekend, and I, um, was really bold. I don’t know why I felt it was in me to, uh, make this like the first point of conversation I had with them, but it was pretty much a litmus test to see if like [chuckles] they passed the vibe check, and they totally did. We– There was like a huge like food spread, and, um, there was a bunch of different chips. There was Ruffles, tor– uh, tortilla chips, and pita chips, and I just went, “Oh, fuck, marry, kill,” and I just pointed at all the chips.

Christine: Yes! Very good.

Em: And it turned into like 30 minutes of a really solid conversation.

Christine: That’s a really good conversation starter.

Em: So I ask you: fuck, marry, kill? Pita chips. Tortilla chips. Ruffles.

Christine: Fuck the Ruffles.

Em: Interesting.

Christine: Kill the tortilla chips, and marry the pita chips.

Em: Interesting. I killed the pita chips, and I married the Ruffles.

Christine: Interesting. I think the Ruffles are a little rich for me. Like I wouldn’t want it as like my everyday, you know?

Em: You don’t want someone rich every day? That’s crazy. Um–

Christine: [laughs] Just on the side, you know.

Em: No. See, I thought like when I think tortilla chips, I think like they know how to party. Like you’re gonna have some crazy dips and salsas–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –and stuff and have a good time.

Christine: I think when I think tortilla, I’m sort of like hit or miss because it’s like sometimes they’re so flimsy ’cause you buy, buy the cheap-o ones, and they’re just like– And then last night, I went to eat a hint o’ lime chip.

Em: Ugh. Not my time. Not my time.

Christine: And it was stale, and I was like, “Blegh.” And so I–

Em: But the Ruffles– No, Ruff–

Christine: –I think I’m not on it.

Em: This is why I said marry the Ruffles ’cause they’re reliable.

Christine: They are.

Em: They’re stable. You can put them with anything, and it’s gonna make some sense, especially in, in a house of sandwiches that I live in–

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: –you can always rely on a Ruffle.

Christine: I would also mar– Well, hm. Anyway.

Em: Anyway, just a little break in the, uh, monotony of Zak Bagans. So please comment below: fuck, marry, kill.

Christine: Yeah, let us know.

Em: And if there’s another chip that didn’t get mentioned that we should throw in the ringer, let us know too. Um–

Christine: Good point.

Em: So anyway, where were we? Hm.

Christine: I don’t know.

Em: Oh, yeah. Violent car crashes. So he, uh– Zak had the nightmare. And actually – very creepy – he had a nightmare of apparently something so vivid he like didn’t even want to talk about it.

Christine: Mm.

Em: He seemed actually very rattled about it. And at the–

Christine: Oh, Zak had the nightmare. Okay.

Em: And at the exact moment he woke up in his hotel room from this nightmare, the entire hotel had a blackout at 3 in the morning.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And then he did his mental gymnastics, and he was like, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “It was the spirits trying to make me feel as trapped as I made them feel in the dark.” And it’s like, “Okay, w–“

Christine: First of all, you’re projecting. That’s what that’s called.

Em: Yeah, you’re sleepy. It’s 3 a.m. Go back to bed.

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah, go back to bed.

Em: On this night– This is where it gets like– You ask me if I believe this stuff– if I believe–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: You go watch it, and– It, it feels at face value incredibly fake.

Christine: Oh, it does?

Em: I think– I don’t know.

Christine: I thought you were gonna say the opposite.

Em: I don’t know. It feels fake, but then I want to believe it, or it’s like really real, and I’m in denial, and I’m telling myself it’s fake. I can’t fucking tell, but it’s gonna sound ridiculous the things I’m saying. Okay?

Christine: You got it.

Em: I already kn– I already can hear people across the nation going, “Bitch, it’s fucking not– Like why are we doing this?”

Christine: Maybe I’ll believe it. You never know. Sometimes I surprise even myself.

Em: I, I don’t know why I’m so gullible. I, I r– Part of me– I don’t know. It was– If it’s real, it’s the scariest fucking thing he’s ever filmed. Okay? So on this night, they have a medium come in. His name was Chris, and he knew the Constantinos. He has been investigating this place for a very long time and thus arguably has an attachment to the hotel, and the hotel is slowly–

Christine: Not like a literal ghostly one, but just like a–

Em: I–

Christine: –a rapport with the ho–

Em: I, I think–

Christine: Oh, you think literally an attachment?

Em: I think both. I– He, he–

Christine: Oh, okay.

Em: I think he claims to have an attachment? Or Zak just said a lot that this guy is attached to the hotel.

Christine: Sure, sure.

Em: Um, so soon, soon after Chris shows up, um, there are a bunch of EVPs– or no, sorry. They’re interviewing Chris, and he’s talking about what he’s gotten in the past, and he’s gotten EVPs, including “Hate you, hurt you, fear evil,” (all as one sentence)–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and then a voice that apparently was saying, “Breathe me in,” to every–

Christine: Ahh!

Em: –single person, to every person.

Christine: [makes a retching sound]

Em: “Breathe me in.”

Christine: I would, I would literally– [Christine pinches her nose shut and covers her mouth.]

Em: [laughs] Hold your nose and mouth.

Christine: [laughs nasally while her nose is still pinched]

Em: All of a sudden, I’m an Olympic diver, and I’ve never needed my breath. Yeah.

Christine: All of a sudden, I’m like running out of the house–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –uh, on the verge of–

Em: Looking like a far– you’re escaping a fart.

Christine: –passing out. Yeah.

Em: Um, so I did– So this was a theory that I was a little like, “Okay, whatever,” but then I was impressed because my own theories ha– got mentioned in this.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: He’s talking about the voice going around saying, “Breathe me in, breathe me in,” during a seance, by the way. Yuck.

Christine: Creepy.

Em: But he said it sounded like Mark Constantino. So I don’t know if we’re just like really hyping up this Constantino thing or he really meant it. But if it was Mark’s voice, his theory matches my theory about the afterlife. And he said, “We all think it was, uh, Mark– Mark’s ghost from the past coming to the future to warn us about what he would do.” And I’m like, “That’s quite a leap, but I appreciate the time travel theory that I’m– I keep pitching.”

Christine: Yeah. So then what’s the “breathe me in” thing?

Em: I think it was like bre– I have no fucking clue.

Christine: Like that part–

Em: I’m not even gonna try to justify it. I was gonna try to justify it. I don’t fucking know.

Christine: Oh.

Em: These people are–

Christine: ’Cause I was like, oh, well, I could– I guess I could understand, but I don’t really understand how that has to do with the voi–

Em: You go watch it–

Christine: –with the act–

Em: –and let me know because I’m, I’m telling you the, the leaps–

Christine: I don’t think I’m gonna get much clarity.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: I think you’re doing as– you’re literally doing as– the best job as you can, I think. Because I–

Em: Thank you. The leaps and hurdles are a little out of control.

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Em: So pretty soon, Chris starts feeling shaky and visibly seems to be fighting something taking over him.

Christine: Oh.

Em: And then he literally doubles over and, in a different darker voice, starts grunting.

Christine: Ahh!

Em: Literally like kind of [makes low grunting noises].

Christine: No.

Em: And then in this dark creepy voice, he says, “I am here. I need to go. You have come into my–“

Christine: “To the bathroom.”

Em: [laughs] “You have come into my house again. It is unacceptable. I am angry you brought them here. People come because of you.” He’s like– So like if it’s real, horrific.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: Is it real? I just don’t know.

Christine: You know, and then I’m like kind of playing the middle part where I’m like, well, you know, maybe he’s channeling something.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like maybe he’s not possessed, but if he’s a medium, maybe he’s channeling something. But also, you’re right. It’s a little muc– it’s a little theatrical.

Em: It feel– Like and maybe this ghost loves theatrics. Like–

Christine: I mean, and like if it’s real, right, props. That’s crazy.

Em: I fear if I were a ghost, people wouldn’t– I would have this same conundrum where people would be like, “Was that a real haunting?” And even though I put my best foot forward, it would be so theatrical–

Christine: You would draw something in glow-in-the-dark on the wall, and they’d be like, “Well, that certainly couldn’t have been a ghost.”

Em: Yeah. And–

Christine: And you’d be like, “What the fuck? I worked so hard on that.”

Em: And I’m sitting there with my like empty paint bucket full of glow-in-the-dark stuff, and I’m like, “I try– I worked so hard on that.”

Christine: It’s so sad.

Em: So [sighs] this guy is being– is channeling something and is saying really dark horrid shit, and as this is happening, Aaron, which makes it more believable to me because I don’t think– to me, I don’t think Aaron strikes me as the person who’s trying to do this for the theatrics. I don’t know. He’s on the payroll, you know, so maybe he is. But Aaron seems to be witnessing this and watching this medium like try to fight something inside of him, and then Aaron starts acting really off and literally like puts his equipment down. He’s standing there and like kind of like looking uneasy.

Christine: Oh, it freaks me out when Aaron– You’re right. It freaks me out when Aaron gets creepy.

Em: Yeah, ’cause I think Aaron just wants to do his fucking job and leave. I–

Christine: And he’s not– I mean, not– no offense to Aaron because everyone has their strengths, but he’s not like the most theatri– He’s not theatrical like Zak. Like he’s not like ready for like– he– He’s not center stage. That’s his whole thing.

Em: He’s– I think he’s supposed to be more of the straight man in all of this.

Christine: The wing man, the straight man. Exactly. And so it’s like– Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So it creeps me out, you’re right, when he starts, when he starts– I’m like, “Not you too.”

Em: He starts seeming really uneasy, and honestly, the cameras weren’t even pointed at him. Like a random X-camera caught him kind of acting odd–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –which makes it feel a little more believable. Um, but then without saying anything, um, the medium kind of comes back to his, his normal state, and then Aaron turns and looks at Billy and just straight up attacks him and starts screaming, “Get the fuck out of here.”

Christine: Oh, shit.

Em: Like, like attacks him where like Billy’s screaming and on the floor and like scared of him.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Um–

Christine: Like physically attacks him.

Em: Like physically attacks him where like, like Zak is trying to rip him off of him and can’t, and Billy later said that it felt like he had superhuman strength. Crazy. Um–

Christine: Jesus.

Em: So then later Chris gets possessed again. This time– This is like– I wish you were with me when I watched this because nothing would– no commentary I’m gonna make would have beat whatever was gonna come out of your mouth in real time. Um–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Chris becomes possessed again, and this time, they have an SLS pointed at him, which like shows you like the stick figure version of if there’s any spirits around you.

Christine: Right.

Em: And the SLS catches this figure crawling over to Chris–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and Chris can’t see the SLS. Chris doesn’t know this. And can you confirm on an SLS– it’s like you can’t make that up? Like that’s–

Christine: No, no, no, especially if it’s moving.

Em: Yeah. So this thing is crawling. He does not know this, but it is perfectly syncing with him acting weirder and weirder as this thing’s getting closer to him.

Christine: No!

Em: And all of a sudden, this thing– once it crawls over to him– They tried so hard to keep it together, but I know Zak wanted to say a gay joke. I know he wanted to.

Christine: Please.

Em: Because this thing crawls over and then stays on its knees–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –kneeling in front of Chris with its head next to his crotch the whole time. It looks like this–

Christine: That’s where we need that hot mic footage. That’s where we need Aaron to come p-pull through and give us that hot mic footage that’s been–

Em: It– [laughs]

Christine: –relegated to the trash.

Em: You can, you can hear Zak. His voice gets higher pitch where he’s like, [excited, higher pitched voice] “Do you see this?” Like he’s like clearly– He wants to say something so bad and he isn’t.

Christine: The seventh grade boy in him is fucking losing it.

Em: [laughs] Yes. You could hear the s– You could hear 12-year-old Zak come out. It’s ver–

Christine: And you know later that night that he just wouldn’t give it a rest, dude.

Em: No, he made a million jokes about it, I’m sure.

Christine: [groans]

Em: Um, but it absolutely looked like this thing was like honestly blowing Chris and– while–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –and possessing him–

Christine: I love they kept the footage in.

Em: –possessing him by that.

Christine: I love that they put the footage in, but they were like, “Let’s just cut out the commentary. Everyone will just read between the lines, like–“

Em: Well, they, they kept it in because again, Chris doesn’t know this is happening ’cause he can’t see what they’re seeing on their camera screen. But as this thing is now like in position, all of a sudden, Chris starts, in that same creepy voice as earlier, saying even more, quote, “demonic possession” kind of stuff–

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: –where he says, w– uh, “What, you come to us now when we’ve been here for many years. What is it that you seek now in our darkness when you have come for us now?”

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: Like yuck.

Christine: Wait, which one of them is this?

Em: This is the um, this is the medium, Chris, who is getting blown by the ghost.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] I’ve never– You know what?

Christine: Listen, Zak’s not gonna say it? We have the balls to say it. Okay?

Em: I said it. And also like I love when I finally say a new sentence. It’s refreshing when I’m like–

Christine: Honestly, it’s really enjoyable.

Em: Like yeah, it’s– I appreciated it. It made me feel rejuvenated. Um–

Christine: Yeah, you deserve that.

Em: So also this is X-rated. Sorry if your children are in the car. Um, so–

Christine: Em, we’re talking about people like getting beheaded and shit on this show. I think, uh–

Em: Sure.

Christine: I mean, not quite yet today, but, um–

Em: In time.

Christine: Anyway.

Em: So, uh, yeah, so this creepy voice is coming out of the medium saying, “What is it that you seek?” and blah-blah-blah. Um, Zak is freaking the fuck out. He does say, um, the medium’s full name, and apparently, that shakes Chris out of it, and all of a sudden, he’s acting totally fine as if nothing happened. And what Chris doesn’t know, as he seems to kind of wake up out of this weird trance, is that in that exact same moment on the SLS, the figure goes away.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: So it does weirdly time up with what’s happening in real life.

Christine: So Zak says his full name and then the thing kind of poof?

Em: Yes, exactly.

Christine: Wow, that’s spooky.

Em: Later, they also see shadows and apparitions. They hear voices. A ball they leave in a room moves by itself. During a spirit box session, um, Billy starts freaking out and says he can’t feel his body, and then he starts screaming like something’s cutting him up alive. Like he’s– I’ve–

Christine: Whoa.

Em: I’ve never– Like he really was seeing something with his eyes that wasn’t there, and he’s screaming bloody murder.

Christine: And hasn’t he already been attacked by Aaron? So it’s not like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like he’s already been on the floor attacked by Aaron, so something’s, something’s up.

Em: Something’s off. Um, they end up, uh, using the spirit box again, and they get a couple things, but the, the most notable one is when Zak says– ’Cause they think it’s Mark, and they’re like, “Oh, well, this guy knows us. If you know us so well, say something about us.” So Zak says, “What year was I born?” and immediately, the spirit box says ’77.”

Christine: And he goes, “Nope. Uh, actually, I’m only 28 years old, so.”

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: “Somebody– Aaron, do the math real quick.”

Em: No, he actually freaks out, and he just keeps going– He keeps going, [in a panicked voice] “’77! ’77! He said ’77. They said ’77.” It’s like, “Okay, so I’ll never forget what year you were born.”

Christine: Literally, the amount of sec– I know. The amount of time they waste with just like him saying the same thing that we just saw all together over and over.

Em: And then you hear, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “Was this spirit saying the year that I was born?” [laughs]

Christine: Righ– How f– Like this is like fucking Cocomelon level.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Like you’re repeating it over and over and over. Like I saw it with my own two eyes, bud.

Em: Like we were there, and you put captions up three times. We’re good.

Christine: [groans] And you replayed it 80,000 times for us.

Em: And they’ll do it again at the very end.

Christine: And they’ll do it again.

Em: Um, so that was night two. Night three, they decide that they’re going to actually investigate, uh, a tunnel con–that’s connected to the basement of this hotel.

Christine: [gasps] Spooky.

Em: And the tunnel connects to another building on the other side of the road. So there is a shared tunnel between–

Christine: Oh, I love that.

Em: –this random store and this haunted-ass hotel.

Christine: Ooh, I love that.

Em: Apparently, the store, uh, says that the tunnel is in fact super haunted, and it’s so haunted that they have nailed their end of the tunnel shut.

Christine: I was gonna say, I bet they blocked it. [gasps]

Em: They literally said it’s so f-ing scary that–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –they had to nail their door shut to the basement.

Christine: Yuck.

Em: So, um, they said that in their– or to the tunnel, sorry. Um, in the basement, that connects their tunnel to the hote– their side of the tunnel to the hotel, they said there’s a rumor of a little girl who was killed and buried down there.

Christine: [sighs]

Em: Some see the little gho– the little girl as a ghost downstairs, but they’re unsure if it’s really the little girl or a demon in disguise. Yuck.

Christine: They never are.

Em: Been there before.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: And, uh, some activity goes on here. The creepiest thing is that a camera catches the owners later on after like the Ghost Adventures crew has left – I guess they like left a camera behind just in case – and you can hear the two store owners talking.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: And I don’t think they realized that they were being filmed or they forgot for a second, and they go, “Do you smell that? It smells like dead bodies down there.”

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And like they didn’t even– You could just hear them just talking–

Christine: Oh no.

Em: –to each other being like, “What is that smell? It smells like dead bodies.”

Christine: Eugh.

Em: So I guess the sulfuric smell of something demonic happening is the point of that. Um, but the final part of the night– This is, I mean, the crème de la crème. You would have eaten this up for sure.

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: I can imagine you and a box of wine and a thing to say. You got something to say. It’s gonna be about this.

Christine: [claps] I’m ready.

Em: Zak decides that it is his job to go into the basement of the Goldfield Hotel–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and he’s gonna go down there pitch black with no light source. He’s gonna have cameras just strapped to his shoulders in infrared, so like they’re catching everything. But as far as he knows, he’s seeing– he sees nothing.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: So he’s– And he goes by himself with nobody else to help him. It’s just him and the pitch black in the basement of the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: Kind of like, like trying to find his way.

Em: Yes.

Christine: Okay.

Em: So while he’s down there, he is so fucking freaked out. I like– It’s like– It’s actually very like poetic in some way that of course it happened at the Goldfield Hotel, but he seems so freaked out as if it’s his first time at the Goldfield Hotel again.

Christine: Aw.

Em: And he’s so freaked. At one point, he says that he feels like his body is getting frozen by something, and then he hears this huge bang–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –which you can hear on, on the camera. You hear a s– a huge bang. He gets so scared– Christine, this would have been the moment of your– the highlight of your year. He gets so scared that he tries to run away, but it’s pitch black, and he runs fucking face first into a wall and hits the ground.

Christine: No-oh, buddy.

Em: But like– And you can see–

Christine: Buddy, there’s a wall there.

Em: He clearly– There, there was an X-cam down there, so som– like the camera caught him going bam into the wall and then hitting the ground, and he just stays on the ground in the fetal position because he’s so scared, and he screams into the walkie for somebody co– to come get him. It’s just like, it’s not that I think it’s very, very funny, but it’s so fucking nice to see him being human and just being scared.

Christine: Oh my god. You don’t really see the authentic childlike version of him come out that often.

Em: He was horrified. Like he’s literally like–

Christine: He’s like a kid.

Em: Like not even saying like, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “Aaron, I need you to come downstairs. I’m scared.” He’s like screaming like, “Help me. Help me. Help me.” Like he’s freaked out.

Christine: Holy shit, dude.

Em: And it’s just so nice to see that he’s a normal fucking person under all of that.

Christine: How refreshing. Yeah.

Em: Um, and I respect him more. If he was like, [mimicking Zak Bagans] “I’m a little scared,” it’s like, no, you’re not.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Or if you are like show it.

Christine: Like please.

Em: Like make, make yourself relatable.

Christine: Like be the every man you’re meant to be, you know.

Em: Mm, mm-hmm. Be a common man, Zak, please.

Christine: Be a common man just like us.

Em: So anyway, when they go down there, another loud sound happens. Um, and then the spirit box says, “It’s time.”

Christine: Ah!

Em: Hello? What does that mean?

Christine: Ah!

Em: And then the episode ends with them going into– it– just to full circle it, they go into the room where the, the brick was thrown in the original documentary.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: Um, and they get some like creepy spirit box stuff. They feel nauseous, but that’s kind of it. But anyway, that is their return to the Goldfield Hotel.

Christine: [applause]

Em: Man, that took way too long.

Christine: Oh no, that was good, dude. That was creepy as fuck.

Em: I can’t believe I thought I could get all three of those episodes–

Christine: I know.

Em: –in one episode at one point.

Christine: Who are you? Me, trying to cram 25 pages into one episode?

Em: [laughs] I know. Anyway, I, uh– For legal purposes, that–

Christine: Damn.

Em: –was a– just a commentary–

Christine: Commentary.

Em: –on, on an episode.

Christine: Look, I drank my whole freaking coffee that– I’m gonna have to pee the entire rest of the episode.

Em: I’m glad that, uh– I’m, I’m glad that I finally got through it. I’m–

Christine: Wow.

Em: But it was, it was, it was worth watching–

Christine: I wanna s–

Em: –to see him just a little scared for once.

Christine: Would you stay there? Would you go in the tunnel?

Em: Not alone. Would you?

Christine: If I had a camera with me.

Em: Genius. That’s nice.

Christine: But not alone without one ’cause I would have to prove it. [chuckles]

Em: Yeah. Oh no. You have to have a camera, for sure.

Christine: Mm.

Em: Um, I, I would go down if I was in a group full of people and all of them were too scared, I would feel like I needed to step up and do it. But like–

Christine: Same.

Em: –I would not be happy.

Christine: I don’t think– I think I’d be same as you. I think you and I would just like egg each other on or like in a group environment manage to get in there. But you’re right. We probably wouldn’t like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –“Here I go first.” Yeah, yeah.

Em: Like when we went to, um, probably Bobby Mackey’s I would say–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –um, I remember like you and Eva were off doing your own thing and I was in a room by myself, and I remember thinking, “I am so fucking scared right now.” [laughs] And then, and then I was like, “I gotta keep– I gotta be strong. I gotta be strong.” But then–

Christine: “I gotta be strong.”

Em: But then like five minutes later, I didn’t feel anything. So I think it like– it kind of comes and goes.

Christine: It is weird how that happens. And like– Yeah. I don’t get– Thank god I don’t get that way in my house, but like some houses growing up, I would feel that way where I’d be like s– I mean, like you were saying with your house like so– And I don’t know if we even had a ghost or if it was just like I was scared ’cause I was a kid, but like–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –that petrifying feeling of like, “I’m too scared to move.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “I’m too scared to open my eyes. I’m s– too scared to even turn over and look–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–like if I heard a sound.” Oh gosh. Yeah.

Em: When was the last time you felt that way?

Christine: Hm. Oh.

Em: ’Cause I feel like when I was younger–

Christine: I don’t know.

Em: –it happened a lot.

Christine: A lot?

Em: And I don’t want to say it was because I was younger, I just like– I don’t know why I feel like I had more experiences like that then.

Christine: I, I agree. I don’t– Maybe it’s just harder to reason when you’re younger and–

Em: Maybe.

Christine: –when we’re older we have so much more experience of when we get scared like that nothing ends up happening. So I think over time you’re like, “Oh, okay.”

Em: Maybe.

Christine: Even if I feel scared, it’s usually not enough to get you so petrified unless there’s like a literal person walking up the stairs or something like that.

Em: Mm-hmm. I would also–

Christine: But I– Yeah, it’s been a while.

Em: I would also argue like since we’re both into like the spooky stuff, I feel like, um, maybe we just had to learn over time like boundaries with spirits.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s true. ’Cause I– Now I do kind of what you do where like immediately if I feel anything, I’m like, “Hey, let’s set a per– Let’s set a boundary first–“

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “–before we get anywhere ’cause–“ Yeah, that– And I feel like that helps with like at least confidence about like not being as petrified, but–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: It's been a long time that I’ve– since I’ve felt– I think the last time I felt that way was probably like when I thought someone was like in the house or something. I don’t know.

Em: Sure.

Christine: Yeah. Well, I’m gonna pee, and then we can talk to my ghost and see what’s going on.

Em: Okay, perfect. I’ll go too.

Christine: Okay, BRB.

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Christine’s Story – Dorothy Arnold - Part 1

Christine: Alright, we just had the world’s longest, scariest, and funniest Yappy Hour.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: I don’t know. It was, uh, a lot of things and very, very, uh, ADHD, I would say. But–

Em: I would agree.

Christine: We had a– In the interi– in, in the middle of it, the second act was really scary. We had our ghost apps just chatting away, and they couldn’t even hear each other, but they were saying things like, “Through the screen. I can’t reach.” It– I mean, it was creepy. Anyway, uh–

Em: Horrific, some might say. I, I di–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I didn’t care for it, but I’m, I’m happy to have turned it off since.

Christine: Yeah, we and– Em said goodbye a million times. We turned it off. We’re back.

Em: We’re ba– We’ve always been back.

Christine: We’re back, back, back. Alright. I have a story for you today. This is one that my friend, Julio, um, brought up in a text the other day. [chuckles] And a few days ago, I was like, “Oh, I have to, I have to come up with a topic.” And I was like, “My friend Julio texted me. How do I text him back but pretend like it’s not to get that topic idea–“

Em: Mm-hmm. [chuckles]

Christine: “–and pretend like I was just wanting to chat?” Anyway, I failed miserably, and I said, “I’m using you for your good story ideas.” So I’m going to cover today the disappearance of Dorothy Arnold–

Em: Ooh.

Christine: –a socialite from New York City.

Em: I love a socialite in New York City. You know, she probably lived in a brownstone.

Christine: Oh–

Em: As we just discussed.

Christine: Don’t you know it? I actually have pictures of her immediately because–

Em: Ah.

Christine: –I was like, she’d want you to know.

Em: I appreciate that. Thank you.

Christine: Yeah, of course. Always. Uh–

Em: Dorothy– What was her last name?

Christine: Dorothy Arnold.

Em: Ooh.

Christine: And the weirdest part, uh– I don’t know if it’s the weirdest part. To me, it was very weird. I saw it, and I went, “Damn it, I’ve already covered that.”

Em: Oh?

Christine: And then I looked, and I was like, “I haven’t covered that.” And then I googled her and went, “Oh, wait. No, I don’t know her.” But the, the na– the second I saw her name, I was like, “Oh, I– I’ve done that one before.”

Em: Interesting.

Christine: It was like–

Em: Well, I also– I feel like Dorothy Arnold feels like a name that we ought to know, you know?

Christine: Maybe, maybe. [quietly, microphone not picking up her voice entirely] Maybe that’s what, what it is. It’s like a familiar name.

Em: Let’s see, I’m ready for my breath to be taken.

Christine: I mean, look at that stance–

Em: Ah.

Christine: –with those boots.

Em: She was. She’s–

Christine: She’s–

Em: –the Daisy Duck of her days.

Christine: [chuckles] She was the Daisy Duck of her days, and, uh, and she knew it. Yeah.

Em: She’s got some beautiful eyes.

Christine: She’s got some pizzazz.

Em: I like her nose. I like everything going on.

Christine: I don’t know about the bonnet, but, you know, I guess that was it back then.

Em: The style – not my taste, but you know what? My style wouldn’t be her taste. I’m wearing a shirt that just says “asparagus” on it, so.

[Em holds their shirt up so the print is visible to the camera. It’s a gray T-shirt with a graphic in the middle that looks like planks of wood nailed together and painted light blue, though the paint is fading. A maroon circle has a vintage logo design for “Knott’s Berry Farm Produce” in the top corner. Underneath in small capital letters, it says “incredible”. Diagonally under “incredible”, going across the planks from the bottom left to top right and written in a vintage ad style, it says “asparagus” with a painting of asparagus across the bottom planks.]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: You know, we’ve all got different things going on.

Christine: Who wouldn’t find that tasteful?

Em: I–

Christine: Who, who in their right mind?

Em: And by the way, this is my call to action to Knott’s Berry Farm. I–

Christine: Okay.

Em: –am so mad at you. I’m not kidding. If somebody knows somebody who works at Knott’s Berry Farm in the merchandising, you simply must tell them I’m looking for them. I have tried to–

Christine: [laughs] What? I– Don’t, don’t do that.

Em: I’ve tried to message–

Christine: Wait, did you get the other picture too?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Oh, okay.

Em: That's why I said I liked her nose. Little close-up–

Christine: Well, both– Oh, but did you get the first one?

Em: Yes, th–

Christine: Okay.

Em: I saw the outfit. Don’t worry.

Christine: Sorry, sorry, sorry. I want to make sure. [unintelligible]

Em: Knott’s Berry Farm. A few years ago, I– And you might be interested in this, Christine, if– [chuckles] Unless you want to just sit back, give me a second here. I found– I fell in love with this shirt. [holds their shirt up for the camera again] It says “incredible asparagus.”

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: I love it so much. And this was a line of shirts where every shirt was a different vegetable, and there was like broccoli. There was like carrots. There was–

Christine: You’re right. I am interested in this. Thank you for distracting me from my notes to listen to this. Go on.

Em: Okay, but Knott’s Berry Farm, I’m not, I’m not kidding. I really– I need somebody who knows Knott’s Berry Farm to get, [chuckles] get them on the h– on the horn.

Christine: [laughs] Get them on the–

Em: I have emailed. I have DM’d, and the DM then like cut because I guess like they don’t take public DMs.

Christine: ’Cause I guess they blocked you?

Em: I’ve, I’ve reached out in every, every way I can. I’ve tried calling. Nobody answered.

Christine: [chuckles] Okay.

Em: Okay? I, I– My plan– When I got the shirt, I was like, “Asparagus will be just the first of many. I’m going to get all of them.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I want them so bad.

Christine: Don’t do that.

Em: And I remember– At some point–

Christine: Don’t, don’t be an idiot.

Em: –when I was there, I took a picture of them at like the whole line being like, “These are incredible shirts. Whoever put these out is so fucking funny.” Like–

Christine: You are an idiot.

Em: And s– and so I always thought, “Next time I go back, I’m gonna get another one and another one. It’ll be like my trinket every time.” Okay. There– First of all, they’re gone. They don’t exist anymore. I cannot find one of them at all–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –online, anywhere. There’s–

Christine: Oh, that’s weird.

Em: The picture I took is missing.

Christine: You’re right. I’m interested. You got me.

Em: The picture I took is missing off my phone.

Christine: No.

Em: I swear to God, if this sh– if I was not wearing this shirt–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –I would think that it was some sort of Mandela effect–

Christine: Stop.

Em: –and I totally– I’ve never actually seen the shirt and it was all a dream. And–

Christine: Okay, wait. Whoa. Okay, wait. Stand– Can I see the shirt? Like the full shirt?

Em: Yes. [holds their shirt up again] It says “Knott’s Berry Farm.”

Christine: Wait, pull it– like stand up a little bit.

Em: “Knott–“ Oh, Knott’s Berry– Sorry. It says “Knott’s Farm Produce. Incredible Asparagus.”

[Em stands up to show the shirt graphics clearly.]

Christine: [laughs] Of course it does. If this is a Mandela effect, I’m gonna f– I’m gonna believe in man–

Em: I feel like you’re gonna look at the picture on your phone now–

Christine: This is the first Mandela effect I will–

Em: –and it’s gonna say like, “Disney World,” and it’s not actually gonna–

Christine: [laughs] It’s gonna be like, it’s gonna be like, “$13.99 at Walmart.”

Em: [laughs] Yeah. I’ve looked everywhere, and nobody will help me. But all I want to do is reach ou–

Christine: [laughs] “Nobody will help me”? Okay. Don’t– [laughs]

Em: Nobody will help me! You have no idea. The, the fury.

Christine: Don’t say it like you’re on the side of the road with a flat tire, you fucking crazy– “Nobody will help me.”

Em: I know– They probably didn’t sell well because people don’t have good humor. So I’m thinking they’re in a box somewhere.

Christine: [laughs] That’s the– That’s right.

Em: They’re in a–

Christine: Oh, so they’re– So okay. So that’d be best case scenario–

Em: I just want someone to s– s–

Christine: –if they do exist and they’re in a box.

Em: Someone who has the key to the warehouse, I’m telling you, I will buy them with my own cold hard cash. I will buy– I want one of every single one. I just want to own them. It’s not that hard.

Christine: What are the other ones to your recollection? Was there– Like I assume a carrot. I’m, I’m picturing a–

Em: One was definitely broccoli.

Christine: Oh, broccoli. Okay. Carrot.

Em: And then there was like– I think there was, um, different f– There was carrots.

Christine: Bell pepper?

Em: Hm?

Christine: Bell pepper?

Em: Maybe a bell pepper. Maybe a– oh, a s– like a snap pea, like a green bean.

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: It was all vegetables. I think there was some fruit, but they really do try to promote their boysenberries, which is why I guess this didn’t fucking last.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: But I thought asparagus at a boysenberry theme park is hysterical. I thought it was so funny.

Christine: No, it is. I appreciate the hum– Personally, I will say I appreciate the humor, and I find it a very fun and appropriate shirt. So I don’t see what– I don’t see what everyone’s fucking problem is.

Em: The, the way that the people of And That’s Why We Drink–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –the listeners, the way that they rallied together when it came to–

Christine: Yeah, the sickness.

Em: –my love for Tony Chocolonely, the way they came together for London Fogs, I really need people t–

Christine: Yeah, when am I gonna get something out of this?

Em: You just gotta start begging for things. And I’m begging right now. Everybody, please god help me. I know together in numbers we can make this happen.

Christine: Is– Do you– I want you to be really honest.

Em: Tell–

Christine: Have you ever actually prayed for, for it?

Em: [laughs, wheezing] I prayed. I prayed. I pra–

Christine: No, you didn’t.

Em: I’ve literally been– Well, I’ve at least gone into full lunacy, and I’m like–

Christine: [laughs] Okay, that I believe. If you went into religious psychosis, I’d be like, “Yeah, I could picture that. Yeah.”

Em: I have, I have– Okay. The closest to religious psychosis I’ve hit–

Christine: Okay– Yeah?

Em: –is me truly thinking I am crazy–

Christine: Okay–

Em: –and it doesn’t exist, but then I look at the shirt–

Christine: I’m s– I’m a little bit s–

Em: –and I’m like, “It’s right here.”

Christine: I’m a little bit scared.

Em: What?

Christine: Because– No, I’m like googling it, and I just did like reverse image search or like google–

Em: It’s like nowhere to be found.

Christine: It’s– There’s not– It doesn’t know what I’m talking about.

Em: And there was like 15 of them. Like I’m not kidding. There were so many that–

Christine: Stop.

Em: Had there been–

Christine: And the picture’s gone?

Em: You know me.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: You know that if there was even just five like this, I would have bought all five in one sitting.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: But there was so many that–

Christine: Oh, I was wondering if you were just doing like a “you had to restrict yourself to one.” Oh, but there were a lot of them.

Em: There were so many that I was like, “I can’t possibly buy this many today. I’m just going to have to break it up and do one, one, one, one.” But so–

Christine: Do you think it was– This is like a weird random thought. Do you think they were like– Is there something wrong with them? And they were like– Like maybe is there a like mispri–

Em: It’s–

Christine: –a spelling– misspelling or something? Or like is it AI?

Em: [reading upside down slowly] As-par–

Christine: Like is there something that’s off that–

Em: [reading upside down slowly] –a-gus. No, it’s right.

Christine: [laughs] [mimicking how Em read it slowly] Asparagus.

Em: I’m telling you, it’s my favorite shirt, and I, I, I am horrified of the day that I wear it so much it thins and I can’t buy a new one.

Christine: Yeah, but honestly– I hate to be this person. That does make it a lot more special.

Em: I s– I think I’m the only person on earth who bought one of any of the line.

Christine: I–

Em: Like the way that it went gone.

Christine: Can you imagine everybody else in your in that timeline who was wearing one of those fucking dumbass vegetable shirts got obliterated in like a nuclear blast–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –and you somehow escaped that timeline and kept the fucking shirt?

Em: I ha–

Christine: You literally left that timeline and all you got was this fucking asparagus shirt?

Em: If someone could make me a shirt that says, “I got blasted from a nuclear explosion–“

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “–into another timeline and all I got was this fucking asparagus shirt from a boysenberry store,” [laughs] I would love that. On– But I also need the other shirts too. [laughs]

Christine: Wait, wait. Yeah, but that can’t trump, that can’t trump our original mission.

Em: Right, right, right.

Christine: That’s a side quest. That’s a side quest. And you’ll get good bonus points.

Em: I’m not kidding. Like if you happen to know the president of Knott’s Berry Farm, you tell them I’m so mad and all I want to do– I’ll sing your praises all day. I’ll do it for free. Just give me the goddamn shirts. At least tell me they exist somewhere.

Christine: [searching online] Knott’s Berry Farm. I mean, I know you’ve done all this, but I’m just– I’m– This is actually my true crime case today.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Um–

Em: This is the closest to actually thinking I’m in a glitch in the matrix because–

Christine: I’m actually kind of creeped out.

Em: It’s like, like not a single one exi– There’s not a single picture anywhere of one existing.

Christine: Hey, there’s not.

Em: There’s not.

Christine: No, there’s not.

Em: Like if I wasn’t wearing it, I wouldn’t believe it ha– it was real.

Christine: [sighs] Like there’s one– This is what it– It’s like, “Oh, do you mean this?” [Christine holds her phone up to the camera.] It’s a white shirt that says, in green letters, “vegetables.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I’m like, “Yeah, that’s what I mean, you fucking dumb idiot Google AI thing.”

Em: I’m telling you, I like– If this shirt ever goes missing or thrown away or something, I, I will be convinced that the timeline just totally eradicated and like now it– no evidence is left.

Christine: 100%. That is a– Honestly, I’ve never believed in Mandela effects–

Em: This is it.

Christine: –and like you’ve made me a believer today.

Em: [chuckles] Thank you. I’m not– I like I know I’m jo– I’m like really actually like so fervently passionate about needing–

Christine: I believe you, and I’m scared.

Em: Not only– I like– I would love the peace of mind that these shirts do exist somewhere and that I, that I could make a purchase, but realistically, I think, for emotional damages, Knott’s needs to send me every single one in my size, which is 2X, by the way.

Christine: If they do exist they have some ‘splaining to do. That’s right. And they also–

Em: I agree.

Christine: –have some very, very, very kind promo boxes to send your way.

Em: I couldn’t say it better myself.

Christine: Yeah, yeah. I totally agree. You know, when you started the story, I really was in, um– I thought better of kind of humanity and the world and–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –like the state of [chuckles] how things were, and now I feel like I’ve dropped– But also I feel like I kind of– I see, I see it now. I see the problems.

Em: This is–

Christine: I see the real problems.

Em: This is my call to action–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –that everyone needs to rally together.

Christine: Wow.

Em: Nothing else in the world is really going on, right?

Christine: Right, exactly.

Em: There’s nothing bigger that we should all be fighting for.

Christine: It’s like, “Finally, something. Something worth fighting for.”

Em: [sighs] Finally, we can come together as a proper nation and just give me my–

Christine: [groans]

Em: –my produce shirts. It’s not that hard. Like I want to encourage vegetables, you know.

Christine: Agriculture. Ever heard of it?

Em: Farmers? I’m very pro-farmer.

Christine: Mar– Make America healthy again. Nope. That’s not it. We’re not–

Em: Whatever Michelle Obama said.

Christine: Sure. The thing about stepping a few thou– “tousand” times a day and all that is great stuff–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –but come on.

Em: I’m tell– Like I would eat 100 pounds of asparagus just to know that this asparagus shirt [chuckles] exists somewhere else.

Christine: I would eat 100 pounds of asparagus just to know that I don’t have to believe in Mandela effects. ’Cause like–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –I would really be comforted by that ’cause I don’t– I still don’t really ascribe to that whole thing.

Em: I–

Christine: So–

Em: More than anything I really appreciate you letting me speak for the last ten minutes. I’m– I mean, I’m tripping balls here. Like I– It’s been two years, three years where I’m like, “Where the fuck are these other shirts? And why did they go missing so quickly? Like so quickly.”

Christine: I am astounded about this ’cause I thought I would do just a quick search and at least find one on eBay, something similar–

Em: Nada, nothing.

Christine: –in a different year, a different season.

Em: I’ve been on like Mercari, Poshmark, like any–

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: –anything I can think of. There’s nothing.

Christine: Okay. Do you think we’ll ever find them? Em?

Em: Please god, somebody help me. I’m begging.

Christine: Okay. Okay. Do we have– Do you wanna– We’re gonna have to send Me– [sighs] Poor Megan. She’s gonna be just like–

Em: [laughs] Megan–

Christine: –“the work–“

Em: –get the farmers on the horn, every one until we find the right one.

Christine: And not that horn. The horn means the phone. Not the–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –not the cool farmer horn that they probably also have.

Em: [chuckles] Okay.

Christine: Okay. [laughs] I have– Not the tractor horn.

Em: Right, right.

Christine: You know what I’m saying?

Em: Right, right, right.

Christine: Okay. So you have a picture now of Dorothy Arnold, and she’s–

Em: Oh, right. Yes.

Christine: –a beautiful young socialite.

Em: Um, let’s go back to her. I don’t know how we got to my asparagus shirt. Oh, her bonnets.

Christine: [laughs] It’s– Oh, her bon–

Em: Her bon–

Christine: I said, “What is your style?” And now we really know what is your style, Em.

Em: Right. I do– I appreciate the little polka dots on her dress and the fl– and what’s it– with the fringe? Is that what it’s called at the bottom?

Christine: Yes, very– tassels almost. Yeah, like fringe for sure.

Em: I love a tassel. Love a tassel.

Christine: You know, but isn’t this amazing that you like could find something like these pictures in, um, a thrift store and like not– and be like, “These are nice,” and like not know that this was–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –one of New York City’s first like major missing persons cases.

Em: I mean, even like knowing that– What year was this? To know that in 2026 that people could still see this picture.

Christine: Yes.

Em: ’Cause you probably thought like, “Oh, I’m taking this for my like immediate family and then I’ll– it’ll never be seen again,” and now like 100 years later, we’re–

Christine: Totally.

Em: B–

Christine: It’s getting– Yeah.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: This is just weird now. Yeah. That’s kind of creeping me out a little bit.

Em: What?

Christine: I don’t know. I don’t know. It’s just creeping me out. It’s–

Em: Well, you know what? The creepiest part is that we could find this picture from 100 years ago and not a fucking asparagus shirt, but.

Christine: [laughs] You know what, Em? I hope for your sake someday you get back to that timeline and just scoop up some shirts and come back, you know.

Em: I’ll be like, “I found ‘em!” and my hair will be all like frayed from–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –my journeys. Alright.

Christine: It’ll be like inside a BoxLunch or like a Hot Topic.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: They’ll be selling them there.

Em: [chuckles] Yeah.

Christine: Um, okay. So I originally heard about this story on Box of Oddities years ago. I think it was like 2019. Um, but I’m gonna tell you the story about the disappearance of this socialite. It was one of the first disappearances, at least one of the first like big PR, uh, disappearances, in New York City, and it took place in the early 1900s.

Em: Okay.

Christine: So Dorothy was born Dorothy Harriet Camille Arnold, July 1, 1885. You know, she is fancy. She has a lot of names.

Em: Oh, yeah.

Christine: She was born in Manhattan to Francis Rose Arnold and Mary Martha Parks Arnold. She was the second of four children and was raised in immense privilege and, you’re right, probably lived in a very large brownstone.

Em: I hope.

Christine: Her paternal lineage traced directly back to English passengers who arrived in North America on the Mayflower. Her family was prominently listed in the Social Register of New York. Her father was a very wealthy man. Um, he had actually accumulated vast wealth as a perfume sort of manufacturer. So he was the senior partner of a firm that like imported– It wasn’t the manufacturer. They imported, um, like luxury items, so like perfumes and, um, cosmetics, that kind of thing. Their, uh, social standing was further elevated by their connections to basically the Supreme Court, [chuckles] for lack of a better–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –more specific term. Because Dorothy’s aunt, Henriette Maria Arnold, was married to a Supreme Court justice named Rufus Peckham. So they are like–

Em: Ooh.

Christine: –elite elite.

Em: Gossip Girl.

Christine: Like– Right. Yes, exactly. Like picture that vibe um, but make it like early 1900s–

Em: Victorian or something. Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, actually have a note on that on like the, the time period, you know–

Em: Ooh. Okay, okay.

Christine: –‘cause we’re always interested in that too. So unlike many women of her like social strata, uh, who only went to school for like finishing s– who only went to like finishing school rather than, you know, to get a career, right? Like that wasn’t the vibe back then. Uh, Dorothy though, she was educated at a very rigorous school called the Veltin School for Girls–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –which sounds terrifying–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –and then she went to Bryn Mawr. So she–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –had quite, uh, an extensive education, and she loved to write. So she graduated from Bryn Mawr in 1905 with a major in literature– or a degree in literature and language–

Em: Cool.

Christine: –and she really, really liked to write. But here’s where, once again, um, women just can’t have it all, okay? Or can they have anything? Nobody knows. Uh, she wanted so badly to be a published author, a professional author. That was her dream – to write.

Em: Okay.

Christine: And after graduating, she went back to live, uh, in her family’s home because it’s this like multi-story mansion, uh, in Manhattan, so, of course, you would go back to live there after college. And she decided to try to launch her writing career. Uh, now here’s where we get into like the eras. So Gilded Age– It was called the Gilded Age, um, and that was because there was such disparity that like this one family had like a multi-story mansion in Manhattan and then there was just extreme poverty on the other hand. And so it was called like the Gilded Age, like things were looking polished but underneath was shit, you know.

Em: Interesting. Okay.

Christine: Um, so the Gilded Age, uh, or the Edwardian Era, which I think was the more UK version of this, high-status women were meant to be societ– societally acceptable and then married off–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –sort of as like a prize or what have you to a wealthy man, and that was just the process. But she wanted to write. She wanted to be an author.

Em: Love that.

Christine: In the spring of 1910, Dorothy submitted a short story to McClure’s magazine, but she received a rejection letter in the mail. And later, she submitted a second story called “The Poinsettia Flames,” or sometimes called “Lotus Leaves,” and that was also rejected. And when her family saw those rejection letters, they fucking taunted her like mercilessly.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: Like it– Horrible. Horrible.

Em: Why? Like ’cause she just wasn’t good enough on try one?

Christine: They just said, “What the– Who, who do you think you are? Like why–“ You know, “You’re meant–“ Like literally she was meant to– She wasn’t even supposed to go to college. She was supposed to just like be pretty and wealthy and get married.

Em: Well, I wonder if that was their whole thing of like, “Oh, we send you to college and you still can’t fucking do this? Like it’s like–“

Christine: Exactly.

Em: Ugh.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Like oh– Yeah, just totally. Also, um, one of the shows I listened to, I think it was Box of Oddities, um, made the point too that like no one in high society respected that as a caree– as like a pa– like that wasn’t appropriate for anyone, let alone like a woman. And so, it’s not like they were respecting, you know, authors of the day who were men. It’s sort of like, “Who do you think you are?”, A), and also like, “Y– Don’t you remember you’re a woman–

Em: Right.

Christine: “–and like what a frivolous waste of time when there’s so many more other important things to be doing.”

Em: Yuck.

Christine: Yeah. It’s not a good vibe at all. Uh, so she really wanted a break from the teasing and taunting. Remember she also has three siblings, and I think two brothers, and they’re just relentlessly mocking her. Um, she wants a dedicated workspace, so she asks her father if she could rent a studio apartment in Greenwich Village. Because it’s like an artsy area, and she would feel like more at home and feel like she could, um, you know, be alongside, uh, people who understood why she loved to write. Her father refused the request, stating that a good writer could write anywhere, so if she were a good writer, she would figure it out.

Em: Jesus.

Christine: And he said she would not be leaving home until she found an approved man for marriage.

Em: Yuck. I was gonna say earlier, I was like, “What’s her relationship with her father if she’s getting taunted for–”

Christine: It’s really good. It’s really excellent.

Em: “–tr–“ I was gonna say like I’m sure he just sees like her as what was a waste of money because he took a chance and sent her to college–

Christine: 100%, 100%.

Em: –instead of her just getting married off.

Christine: Right, right, right.

Em: And now he’s wasting his money because she can’t do anything– Yeah.

Christine: Oh, totally. Yeah. So he’s looking at this as like a business transaction that’s going south very quickly.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Right.

Em: Yes.

Christine: Um, I will say like when she disappears, which we’re, we’re about to get into, like he does– No. Nah, he’s still an asshole.

Em: Okay. [chuckles]

Christine: Never mind. Alright, so we’re getting to the disappearance. It’s Monday, December 12, 1910. At this point, the Arnold household was heavily focused on preparations for the upcoming debutante ball–

Em: Ooh.

Christine: –of Dorothy’s younger sister, Marjorie. She was being, um, presented. She was coming out to society, as you say.

Em: I was gonna say, the second you said “debutante ball” to her younger, non-college-educated, non-waste-of-money sister–

Christine: Correct.

Em: –I can just tell that she’s gonna be the golden child in this story.

Christine: She’s– Mar– Yeah, I think Marjorie is like fine in her parents’ eyes at this point. So that was scheduled for later in the week, uh, December 16. And so the whole house, um, was “aflurry” with, uh, getting ready for this debutante ball. Snore and a half in my opinion, but okay.

Em: [laughs] Did you ever have to do debutante?

Christine: Uh–

Em: Oh, we’ve talked about this. We did cotillion.

Christine: Like, like, yeah, I did cotillion, but by “did cotillion”, I mean my stepmom was like, “Here, your dad bought you this brown skirt, and I’m gonna drop you off at this gymnasium.” And I was like, “Why?”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: I, I hated it.

Em: Understood. And I feel like back then, you know, we– I did deb– not debutante. I did, uh, cotillion in like 2005–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –which is a long time ago to us, but even in 2005, I think it was not at all treated the way that–

Christine: No, it wasn’t like the tr–

Em: –in 1910 when it’s like the big reveal of your maturity.

Christine: Well, and you were in Virginia. I was in like Ohio. So I was even, I feel like, further removed. Like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –in my neck of the woods, it was like almost just like a tangential thing that some people did, but like it wasn’t even like normal. [chuckles]

Em: Right, right.

Christine: Like I don’t think– I didn’t know a single other person who did it. And I literally don’t know– I think I, I genuinely blocked a lot of it out, I think.

Em: So many people in my school did it at this– in the same class, which was what made it so embarrassing. Like you couldn’t hide it from your parents.

Christine: It is embarrassing.

Em: Everyone knew you were at cotillion because you were– they were there too.

Christine: Oh, it was humiliating.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Anyway.

Christine: Dude, fuck that, man. Now I’m, now I’m–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I gotta go talk to my therapist. Oh my god. My, my therapist was like, “I saw a flaming comet on the way to work, and I thought of you.” And I was like, “Thanks?”

Em: Interesting.

Christine: [laughs] I was like–

Em: What does that mean?

Christine: She was like, “I don’t know what it means, but I feel like it means something.” And I was like, “Yeah, I feel like it does. I don’t, I don’t know what.” But anyway.

Em: My therapist recently did a thing where she literally pulled out the notepad and started writing when I spoke, and I went [Em looks shocked, their jaw dropped.]

Christine: Ah! No, no.

Em: I went–

Christine: “Show me that right now.”

Em: “We’re done here actually.” [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] “I’m not gonna speak until you show me that–“

Em: Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: “–piece of paper.” Um, okay. Here we go. So it’s the morning of December 12. Everybody is getting ready for this debutante party that they’re hosting for the younger sister. And Dorothy says, “I’m gonna go to the shops, and I’m gonna buy myself a dress for my younger sister’s debutante party coming up.” And now, this is a little bit of a weird detail, uh, in context because her mother, Mary Arnold, offered to accompany Dorothy on this shopping trip. And apparently, Mary was a little bit of a homebody at this point.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Like she didn’t really leave the house much, and so it was a little bit odd to people that she was offering to join her on the shopping trip.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Um, I don’t quite know what that means, but Dorothy, I think, maybe wasn’t expecting her mother to ask her that, and so she pretty strongly insisted like, “No, I’m going by myself. Um, I prefer to go alone.”

Em: Do we think she was like off to meet somebody?

Christine: That is the ultimate question.

Em: Okay.

Christine: That is the ultimate question. Um, and I’m here to–

Em: My, my immediate thought is she’s gay, and she’s gonna go be with her girlfriend.

Christine: I wish.

Em: But I, I– You know, probably not.

Christine: I wish.

Em: Probably could’ve just been a boy.

Christine: I wish. Okay. Dorothy left the 79th Street mansion at approximately 11 a.m., carrying roughly $30 in cash, which today is like $1,000.

Em: [scoffs]

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Yeah, small potatoes.

Christine: Well, she had to go buy a dress. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. She left behind though, which is important, her passport, her jewelry, and all her luggage.

Em: Okay. So she planned on not being gone forever or internationally.

Christine: Seemingly so. Yeah. Seemingly so. Historical rumors sometimes conflate, uh, the events here, but to be factual about this, because I had to kind of go digging for it, um, Dorothy– Some people say Dorothy had plans to meet her mother for lunch at the Waldorf-Astoria that afternoon. That is not true. It was actually a friend of hers named Gladys, whom she runs into on this shopping trip, who was meeting her mother at the Waldorf-Astoria.

Em: Okay.

Christine: So a lot of people throw that in like, “Oh, she had plans to meet her mom,” but like she did not. She had– As far as we know, once she left the house and said she was going shopping, like we know two places she actually went shopping, and then we have no idea what the like ultimate plan was–

Em: Right, okay.

Christine: –you know? So– Or if there was one, I guess even. So during her errands, Dorothy visited a store called Park & Tilford, which is the most fucking rich New York boutique name I ev–

Em: Tiffany & Co. Yeah.

Christine: Right? Park & Tilford. It feels like a dog uh, it feels like a dog wool sweater magazine that would like–

Em: Everything had, everything had an “and” to it.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: A Park & Tilford.

Christine: And it–

Em: Walf–

Christine: And it’s an ampersand.

Em: Well, I guess Waldorf and Astoria? No.

Christine: [chuckles] Waldorf & Astoria. Uh, and it’s an ampersand always.

Em: Yeah, Tiffany & Co. Like I feel like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Wait, “Tiffany & Co” or “Tiffany Co.”?

Christine: Oh.

Em: Maybe I’m, I’m wrong on my ampersands.

Christine: I think you’re just completely–

Em: In my mind, everything has a fucking ampersand back in the day.

Christine: What kind of timeline did you come from? Jesus.

Em: [chuckles] The one where I had my fucking asparagus shirt.

Christine: You, you have an insane timeline in whatever– insane sense of grammar. I think it’s–

Em: Tiffany & Co.

Christine: It is “& Co.”

Em: In my mind, there was a-ampersands on every goddamn sign back then. No?

Christine: Hm.

Em: Whatever. Whatever.

Christine: It was– You know that now that you mentioned it, it was Almond & Joy.

Em: Shut up. [laughs]

Christine: Kit & Kat. [laughs]

Em: Shut up.

Christine: Okay, so here we go. She went to Park & Tilford, the dogs’ men– dog menswear catalog.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: This was actually an upscale retailer on Fifth Avenue, and there she purchased a half-pound box of chocolates.

Em: Oh, love it.

Christine: Mm-hmm. Witnesses noticed she appeared to be in exceedingly good spirits, and that’s also important.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: She proceeded to Brentano’s bookstore, located at the corner of Fifth Avenue and 27th Street. And by the way, she is walking a far way like throughout this. She’s like walking– Somebody was doing the like blocks–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –on one of the podcasts I heard. She was walking a long ways, but she did like to walk. She was, she was somebody who liked to walk, so it wasn’t like unusual, but, um–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –it’s worth noting–

Em: But it is odd.

Christine: –that this was like a big, big walk. So she goes to this bookstore and purchases a humor book called An Engaged Girl’s Sketches. That’s the name of this sort of like humorous essay book.

Em: This girl sounds like she’s having the best day of her life.

Christine: Right?

Em: She’s buying herself chocolates, a comedy book. She’s–

Christine: Like a cute girly comedy.

Em: She went to the Waldorf-Astoria and ran into a friend.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Like–

Christine: No, she’s not, she’s not at the Waldorf-Astoria. Her friend is going to the Waldorf. I– We’ll get to it. We’ll get to it. We’ll get to it.

Em: Okay, okay.

Christine: So this book is by Emily Calvin Blake, and she– Even though she had $1,000 with her, she charged it to her father’s account at the bookstore–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –which I would do too, I guess–

Em: Sure. He won’t notice.

Christine: –rather than spend my own money. Yeah. Like if I– if that was an option, I mean, I would. But it is interesting to know that she brought all that cash and then didn’t use it for her errands–

Em: Mm, okay.

Christine: –if that makes sense. Outside Brentano’s, Dorothy ran into her friend, Gladys King. Now, Gladys had an RSVP for Marjorie’s debutante party with her in her – it says here – “in her muff.” [laughs]

Em: We don’t use “muff” anymore, do we?

Christine: In her muff. Uh, yeah. So, you know, her hand muff, I presume.

Em: Yes.

Christine: But yes, she had her– [laughs] She had the RSVP. “Let me get it out of my muff.” Um–

Em: Well, wasn’t a muff like also a purse or something? Or was it–

Christine: Oh, maybe. No, I think it’s this thing. [Christine slides her hands together in front of her, holding them parallel to her.]

Em: Like a what?

Christine: I think it’s where you put your hands in it.

Em: That’s a mitten.

Christine: No, no, no. Like you put both hands in.

Em: Oh! Oh, oh, oh, yes. I think that’s what I’m thinking of too. But it just looks like a purse when it’s– ’Cause being carried–

Christine: Oh, ’cause it’s kind of like a–

Em: It’s purse-shaped. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Christine: It’s like y– roundish.

Em: You’re right.

Christine: Okay. So–

Em: It’s a– essentially a, a fuzzy hand warmer.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: For both your hands, but it looks like– If you were to put like a str– a rope on it to carry it, it would be a purse– or it would look like a purse.

Christine: [laughs] If you put– No, then it would look like a muff with a rope tied around it.

Em: [laughs] Okay.

Christine: ’Cause it is hollow and–

Em: I’m gonna shut the fuck up actually. Okay? You know what? I– You’re right. You’re right.

Christine: Attached to a– It looks like a bad trap– a squirrel trap is what it would look like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –or, or like a something, something scary.

Em: I do like that she had it in her, in her muff though where she was like literally holding it in that exact moment. She’s like, “Look what I have right now.”

Christine: I know. And, and to pull it right out of your muff like that. I'm sorry I can barely say it, but like to pull it right out of your– [laughs] to pull it out of–

Em: I love pulling out of your muff, you know.

Christine: –out of your muff. [laughs] I got– “Hey, this is your for your sister.” Like, how dare you, you know?

Em: [laughs]

Christine: You put that where– back where the sun don't shine in that muff of yours.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: You know what I mean? So she had the debutante right there in her muff, and she handed it to Dorothy and said, "This will save on postage,” which, like, classic, classic joke, okay.

Em: Of course.

Christine: You can, you can just tell Gladys is a, is a jokester.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: So the two of them chatted briefly, and this is important because Gladys ended up being the last person to ever see Dorothy Arnold, as far as we know.

Em: That's terrible. You, you really had to go in with like the big fuzzy muff jokes, and then all of a sudden, it’s–

Christine: I really tried to leave us there mentally before I went forward.

Em: I appreciate the levity before it got dark. Thank you.

Christine: You're welcome. So Gladys excused herself. It was 2 p.m., and she said, "I'm meeting my mother at the Waldorf-Astoria.”

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “That's why I brought this beautiful muff." And so she waves goodbye to her friend bef– but not before offering her a ride. And Dorothy says, "No thanks." Even though it would have been like a really easy way to get back after she's been doing her errands or whatever.

Em: Sure.

Christine: I will say she doesn't go to the dress shop, so that's also weird. But her friend says, "Oh, can I give you a lift?" She says, "Uh, no, I prefer to walk through Central Park." So she says she's gonna walk up through Central Park to get home ’cause she likes to take walks and–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –makes enough sense that Gladys doesn't think about it. So Gladys turned back, um, and waved, and Dorothy waved, and then they waved one more time, which for some reason is just poignant, like the second like, “See ya,” and then she was never seen again. I want to just like point out again, this is the middle of the day in Manhattan–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –in broad daylight.

Em: Yeah. Horrifying.

Christine: Like busy area. It's just crazy that shit like this happens.

Em: It's when, it’s when you would think you're the safest.

Christine: So when Dorothy failed to return for dinner, her parents just assumed she was at a friend's house. Remember, she's like 25 at this point, so it’s, it’s–

Em: Right, so she doesn't really tell mom and dad where she's at all the time.

Christine: Yeah. She'll like be– But she usually wasn't late. Like she, she was pretty prompt about dinner, and she was pretty respectful about that. Um, but they thought, “Okay, like she's probably just at a friend's house,” right?

Em: Sure.

Christine: Um, but as the night went on, they started to get concerned, um, but not concerned enough to tell the police. Um, in fact, they wouldn't tell the police that their daughter was missing for six weeks.

Em: Oh, shit. I really thought you were gonna say like a day ’cause–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –I get that this was a time where y–

Christine: Like a normal person. [chuckles]

Em: Like I don't even know if everyone had phones yet then. Like if you just don't see them, they just– Like how do– how would you know where they are? Um, but six weeks is crazy.

Christine: Six weeks. Crazy. Uh–

Em: That makes me immediately think it's her dad or her parents.

Christine: No. The reason being – I'll tell you right off the bat – uh, they didn't want any scandal. They didn't want any, they didn't want any of the bad press. Um–

Em: Didn't they kind of get bad press though when like the debutante ball came and went and like the sister was nowhere to be found?

Christine: So everyone in their circle, s– like their friend group and stuff, knew she was somewhere–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –but he did not want to alert like the general public.

Em: Gotcha.

Christine: Like he did not want the police to get involved and make this– and find her and, and like prove that she had been like gallivanting off with some man or something. You know what I mean? Like–

Em: I see.

Christine: They were just–

Em: ’Cause they already thought so little of her, she was probably off–

Christine: They just couldn’t–

Em: –being a hooligan.

Christine: Right. –trust her running off. And, and also they were scared that she was missing, and [chuckles] they weren't scared enough to notify like the proper authorities. So do with that what you will, right? Like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –she's an adult, um, so on–

Em: Was she– Could she have been like prone to spontaneous travel and like, “Oh, she probably just went somewhere”?

Christine: Interesting question. We are going to absolutely get to that in a few short bullet points.

Em: Okay.

Christine: So realizing, uh, after basically privately calling– and actually they lied to a few of her friends. Like one friend called and said, "Oh, did she make it home?" And her mom was like, "Yes, but she's sleeping with a headache." Because they were just trying to like minimize this–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –but they were trying to find her through their own inner circle. So I won't say like they weren't concerned or like didn't want to find her or didn't care–

Em: Right.

Christine: –but they wanted to keep it under wraps and cared more about their reputation than actually like finding her quickly and making sure she was safe.

Em: I would also wonder if I were them, like if I'm in high society, like I would want to keep it under wraps and in my circle of people I trust specifically ’cause what if like–

Christine: Right.

Em: –she's being held for ransom or something, and I want to make sure that like maybe I can use my, my resources that I trust versus everyone finding out and then there’s–

Christine: Right. Exactly, exactly. Well, uh, yeah, I fooled you. I fooled you, didn't I, folks?

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Because I, as I said, “Oh, I'll get there in a few more bullets,” I had an immediate spiral because I realized that I have a meeting in 14 minutes, uh, outside of my home that I completely forgot about. And, uh, I am so sorry. And I realized also that we're at three– almost three hours, and I still have like six pages of notes, which is a-about another hour.

Em: [groans]

Christine: So like I'm gonna make this a two-parter ’cause there really is no way around it even if I skip my meeting. Uh–

Em: I’m, I'm so sorry to everybody that I was such a yapper. I thought that this was gonna be–

Christine: Don’t be.

Em: –evenly split between your–

Christine: No. I–

Em: –dialogue and my dialogue.

Christine: –almost made the asparagus my story ’cause I felt like–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: –that was more import– like more, more timely, but I guess, you know–

Em: Well, this was, this was a very Em-heavy show. Next, next week will be a very Christine-heavy show. Let’s make that.

Christine: No, no, no, no.

Em: Let’s do that.

Christine: I– No thanks, that's fine. Uh–

Em: Ugh, I feel so bad. Well, okay. Well, then get to your meeting.

Christine: Okay, I will. I'm so sorry, everybody, but that is where I will leave you, um, by saying, “I’ll get there in a few short bullet points next week.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Okay. And–

Christine: That’s–

Em: Why–

Christine: We–

Em: Drink.

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