Listener Stories: Vol. 109 featuring. Roz Hernandez

Stories:

1: My ghost video - Lisa (she/her)
2: I HAVE A VIDEO!!!! - Brandi
3: Video Submission - Kellie
4: Boudoir photos in the afterlife? WITH PHOTO——PS-I <3 HANKES - Tommee
5: I HAVE A PHOTO OF A GHOST DONT CLOSE THE PORTAL PLEASE - Maddy (She/Her)
6: Paranormal question - Lizzy
7. SPOOKY FOOTAGE (photo) - Rachel

---

Welcome to November, where it's spooky season all year! We're feeling hypnagogic today reviewing your footage and paranormal question submissions with the Haunted Doll herself, Roz Hernandez. We discuss such pressing paranormal issues as ghost farts and smelter energy. We also wonder if we're the ones gaslighting ghosts with our Scooby Doo behavior... and that's why we drink!

Check out Roz's new horror movie trivia podcast called Tickled to Death as well as Ghosted! by Roz Hernandez (because we'll never stop talking about her genius segment "EVP or EVPlease". Let's also help her become a famous YouTube ghost huntress and subscribe to her channel Roz Hernandez the Haunted Doll where she ghost hunts with folks from Grinder. Could there be a more perfect premise??

---

Transcript

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors]

[intro music] 

Christine: Hello everyone. Welcome to And That’s Why We Drink [spooky tone] Halloween. We are here– joined today by one of our most special guests ever, Roz Hernandez. Thank you for coming on. Um, we’re delighted to have a real expert in the house. 

Roz: Oh my god. At this ungodly hour of 10:00 a.m. in the morning, I’m– 

Em: [laughs] I understand. 

Christine: Oh, Em– Em’s with you on the West Coast. Yeah. 

Roz: This is very early for me. There’s very few people that I would agree to wake up this early to podcast for. And I’m honored to be here. 

Christine: Aw, well, thank you. 

Roz: Half awake. But you know what? I’ve got my caffeine. I’m working on it. Uh– 

Christine: Maybe you’re like in that hypnagogic state, and you’ll really like access the other side, you know, like in that half awake sleep state. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: Oh, yeah, absolutely. I’m feeling it. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I’m sure you are. 

Roz: Extra hyp-hypnogogic today. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, me too. Me too. [laughs] 

Em: I appreciate– I crawled out of my, my own coffin just to come here. 

Roz: [laughs] 

Em: So, uh, I’m very excited to see you. 

Roz: Well, I’ve been staying up all night, um, ’cause it’s Halloween time. 

Christine: I know. 

Roz: And you know, this is like one of my months where I, I matter. 

Christine: Of course. 

Roz: So I– 

Christine: Where you matter. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: [laughs] I’m [unintelligible]– 

Christine: You’re relevant, finally. 

Roz: I know. I get this one and Pride Month. 

Christine: [laughs] There you go. 

Roz: And so, I really want to like take– make the most of it, and so– 

Christine: What do you do? Do you watch scary movies? 

Roz: Well, [sighs] I like to. I mean, I’ve been seeing them in theaters and stuff, but I, um– I’ve been kind of making my own ’cause I’ve been ghost hunting and stuff. 

Christine: [stage whispers] Yes! 

Roz: So I have been trying to just get more content and, uh, and edit them and, you know, do all– 

Christine: And find those ghosts. 

Roz: Yeah, totally. And I’m a one lady crew over here, so I’m like– 

Em: Oof. [sighs] 

Christine: Oh my gosh. 

Roz: –staying up all night looking through footage of nothing happening, of just a– 

Christine: Em’s– 

Roz: –a video of a room. 

Christine: Em’s– Bane of Em’s existence. Yeah. 

Roz: [sighs] 

Em: I– We’ve, we’ve done that many times. It’s– 

Christine: And then Em will be like, “Let’s do six different nights of ghost hunting,” and then Em has to sit there and watch it all. And I’m like, “Listen–“ 

Em: And I just– On our last t– on our last tour, I decided that we needed a– like a fi– 10, 15 camera setup. And so I had to watch– 

Roz: Oh [groans]. 

Em: –10 to 15 hours of– uh, 10, 15 cameras– angles of the exact same thing over and over again. [laughs] 

Christine: Some of them were us sleeping also. We were like, “Maybe something‘ll happen in the night.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So there’s just like this video of Em sleeping for like [laughs] eight– 

Em: I did zoom through that. I was like, “Eugh,” but– Yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: That’s why I don’t, I don’t do that. Okay? 

Em: [laughs] Fair enough. 

Roz: When I, when I was– 

Christine: You don’t let other people film you sleeping? That’s weird. I, I didn’t have a problem with it. [chuckles] 

Roz: Well, when I did that show, Living for the Dead, we would stay at haunted places– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: –and we would sleep. Well, we, we were supposed to sleep. I couldn’t– 

Christine: Like a sleepover-type sleep, yeah. 

Roz: I couldn’t sleep because– 

Christine: No, no, no. 

Roz: –you know, it’s terrifying. And they would have the cameras rolling, so I’d be like awake the whole time because I’m like– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Roz: –first of all, you’re not catching me farting on screen. And– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Good point. So– 

Em: And then calling it a ghost for all to hear. 

Christine: And then calling it– [laughs] 

Roz: Yeah. But also like you’re telling me there’s demons crawling into people’s beds at night. 

Christine: Mm. 

Roz: I’m not doing that. So– 

Christine: No, it’s vulnerable. It’s so vulnerable. 

Roz: So then we, we would leave the cameras rolling and then, you know, it’s like they wouldn’t– We didn’t even really use any of that footage for the most part, I don’t think. And so now when I go to like haunted hotel rooms and stuff, I try to make it really clear like these are, um, a very cheap way to rent a s– private space. You know, like a, a hotel rental is much cheaper than a abandoned prison. 

Christine: Oh, we found that out too. 

Em: [chuckles] Mm-hmm. 

Christine: [laughs] Yep. 

Roz: You know, so– And I’m not here to sleep. I know there’s a bed, and y– t-traditionally, people sleep in hotels, I understand. 

Em: It’s for decoration. 

Christine: It’s, it’s– Yeah, decor. 

Roz: I would say that’s why pe– I get why people think that. Not me. 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Roz: That’s a filming location if you’re telling me– 

Christine: This is a set, a live set. 

Roz: Absolutely. I’m not sleeping on, on the job. 

Christine: No. 

Em: Did you– 

Christine: Oh, that would be so unprofessional. 

Em: Did you have a most haunted or scariest night somewhere? 

Christine: Mm. 

Roz: Oh my god. I, I had one that made me quit. 

Christine: [chuckles] Oooh! 

Em: Okay. 

Roz: I was so scared. I did one, um, in San Diego a– in the Gas Lamp District. 

Christine: Was it at a particular house? 

Roz: No, this– 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] 

Roz: Well, this was the hotel. 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] 

Roz: I can’t afford to stay in nobody’s house. This was– 

Christine: No, we were looking at the– We were, we were at the Whaley House in San Diego for our f– uh, first sh– second show. 

Roz: Oh, no. It wasn’t that one. I’ve been to that one a bunch of times. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Roz: But, um, I’ve never been– Have you done it like– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: –where there’s nobody there? 

Christine: We did like a full investigation. 

Roz: [gasps] 

Christine: Yeah, it was actually very creepy. 

Em: That was, that was for one of our tours. Yeah, for one of our live tours. 

Roz: [gasps] 

Christine: We actually got quite a bit there. 

Roz: Yeah, you people are so cool. I– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: No, we’re not. But thank you. [laughs] 

Roz: I do like whatever the like knockoff version is or whatever– 

Christine: No, I think that’s cool. Yeah. 

Roz: –where like I can like go when, you know, when there’s tours going on and just be in the corner like– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. You’re not conspicuous with those orange glasses at all. Yeah. [laughs] 

Roz: Well, and I love, I love going to places like that– those historic places where the employees are like dressed like– 

Christine: Dre– With a lantern with batteries in it. 

Roz: Ah! Love it. 

Christine: Oh, so good. 

Em: When they go, “Hear ye, hear ye.” 

Christine: Yeah. Oh, something about it. 

Roz: Oh, love that so much. No, but this other place, um, is, uh, this old hotel where this man was shot and, and died a long time ago. 

Em: Mm! 

Roz: He was like a gambler kind of guy, I guess. 

Em: Mm. 

Roz: They say he was like a cheater– he cheated at his gambling– 

Christine: [quietly gasps] 

Roz: –and got shot and– Whatever. 

Em: [chuckles quietly] 

Roz: And I– You know, I’m very skeptical, so I’m just kind of like, “Let’s see what happens.” 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Roz: Nothing. So boring. And then I decided to turn off the lights. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: Because I was kinda like, you know, at least, at least, uh– Like, “What am I gonna do with this?” The– I, I gotta make content here. I drove all the way to San Diego. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Amen. 

Roz: Nothing’s happening. So at least if I put myself in night vision, maybe it’ll look spooky and– 

Christine: [laughs] We’ve been there too. 

Roz: You know what I mean? Like I’m not gonna fake anything, but I also just like– There needs to be something different than just me sitting– 

Christine: It’s the vibes, yeah. You gotta. 

Em: The optics, yeah. 

Christine: The optics of it, yeah. 

Roz: Yeah. And so, as soon as I turn off the lights, this fool gets right up in my business. And I don’t feel ghosts really. 

Christine: Mm. 

Roz: Like I try to turn that part of me off if I go ghost hunting. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: And, uh, I felt a ghost that night. 

Christine: Ooh god. 

Roz: And it scared me so much. And it was so, um, invasive and so like– 

Christine: Oh no. 

Roz: I just felt like I was in a hotel room in the pitch black with a man in San Diego that I don’t know, and I don’t like that. And– 

Christine: True nightmare. Yeah. 

Em: Mm. 

Roz: Yeah. So it made me– It, it scared me so much. And, and then, of course, all the machines start going off, which didn’t happen, you know– 

Christine: [sighs with lip trill] 

Roz: So I just– I got so disturbed that I was like, “I don’t want to do no more ghost hunting.” 

Christine: Mm. 

Roz: “This sucks. This is too scary.” So I quit for like– I think like six or seven months or something like that. 

Em: Oh, wow. 

Christine: That’s a long time, I feel like– 

Roz: I know, but– 

Christine: –for your bread and butter. 

Roz: But then I was like, “Uh, how about I just don’t ghost hunt men anymore? I only–“ 

Christine: Like creepy gambler men. Yeah. It’s like, “Well, why would you wanna contact that guy anyway, you know?” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: I know. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: So now I’m just looking for ladies. 

Christine: Oh, I– See. Now, that’s the way to do it. 

Em: Love it. You know what’s– 

Roz: I did one with a nun, you know. Like I, I meant– 

Christine: [chuckles] Well, never mind. I don’t wanna be involved with that. 

Roz: I know. Nuns are kind of, uh– They’re not necessarily known to be [posh accent] the nicest ladies. 

Christine: Yeah, not really. 

Roz: But, um, I, I, I live– I love me a nun. 

Christine: There’s like a vi– 

Em: You know– 

Christine: There’s like a good vibe with a nun, I feel like, in the ghostly world. Yeah. 

Em: One of the– I– Tell me if, if you feel this way, but one of the worst parts about ghost hunting for content is that the scariest fucking thing can be happening to you and it doesn’t translate on camera. And you’re like, “Well, that was for fucking nothing.” 

Christine: Yeah, you’re like– 

Roz: Oh, I know. 

Christine: –“I’m feeling so inva– It’s so invasive,” but it’s like just you on camera, sitting there. Yeah. 

Em: Like there, there was a– One of the first places we investigated was the Queen Mary, and Christine had a whole moment down in the boiler room– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –where like she was feeling like really nauseous. She like– 

Christine: I pulled a Zak Bagans. I was like, “I can’t stand up –“ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] But like it just looks like we’re doing it for content, not that it was real. 

Christine: It looked like I was making it up, right? But I was like, “I actually am gonna throw up.” [chuckles] 

Em: And it, it couldn’t go in the show. 

Roz: Which– I mean– I’m– [sighs] I, I think that maybe it’s– maybe we could all agree it’s still entertainment, whatever, but so many people fake this shit. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: I’m sorry. I, I would start doing my research and looking through different YouTube people, and I’m seeing like these millions of views that they get– 

Christine: Yep. 

Roz: –and I’m like, “There’s no way–“ 

Christine: Bullshit. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: “–that that is happening to you every place you go.” 

Christine: Bullshit. 

Roz: “And it’s always something that– where there’s no proof. It’s just you going, ‘Ahh!’” Like, no– 

Christine: “It moved!” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And then– 

Roz: –that is fake. 

Christine: Yeah, yep, yep, yep. 

Roz: That is fake. 

Christine: And then they’ll have like 14 million views, and you’re like, “Well, no wonder they keep doing it. Like it’s working.” [laughs] 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: Yeah. And trust me, I think about it all the damn time. I’m like, “Should I just start faking this shit?”But– 

Christine: Just roll something across the floor. [laughs] 

Em: Oh, I think I could relate to you as the person who watches all of the– 

Roz: [chuckles] 

Em: –the several hours of nothing in– Totally– It’s a total– You’re giving yourself a dia– uh, some sort of psychosis because you’re like– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –“Did I see anything in the pitch black? Did I hear anything in the pitch silence?” 

Roz: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: Oh my lord. 

Em: And it– Yeah, I’ve thought that, too. I’m like, “We should just fucking just– We should just make it however we want.” 

Christine: One time– Yeah, one of the scariest sounds Em ever caught ended up being Eva blowing her nose– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and we were like, “Oh, shit. Like this is the scariest sound.” It sounded like someone going like, “Shh….” Like, “I can hear you,” into the camera. 

Roz: Ahh! 

Christine: And then it– We, we found another angle. It was Eva blowing her nose. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: So, you know, it just– It happens. It’s hard to be a ghost hunter. 

Roz: And it gets tempting to go– 

Em: It gets so tempting. 

Roz: –“Well, maybe we don’t say that.” It– Yeah. 

Christine: Nobody has to know she has allergies, you know? 

Em: Right. [laughs] 

Roz: I know. It's very tempting, but I’m looking for the real deal. Like that’s what it’s about for me. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: And the thing that, that the two of you have that I like to feel like I have as well is, uh, it could still be fun to, to go on this journey with us, and it’s still– We could still entertain you and give you something a little different– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: –whether there’s ghosts or not. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: And I do feel that there’s a lot of people where it’s like, “If you didn’t fake this, this would be boring as hell.” 

Christine: What else is there to look–? Yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep, yep. 

Em: 100%. 

Roz: Hee-hee. 

Christine: I plead the fifth on any further discussion on that, but yes. [laughs] 

Em: And– [laughs] Basically– 

Roz: Oh, I’ll name names. Let’s go. 

Christine: I know. You go for it. Listen. 

Roz: You got me– 

Em: I was literally about to, and then Christine said, “I’m not saying anymore.” And I went, “Oh, I’ll take that as a sign I shouldn’t–“ 

Christine: I’ve already, I’ve already thrown enough names out today. [laughs] 

Roz: [laughs] 

Em: No, we’re– But we’re, uh, you know, frequent, uh, Zak Bagans discussers over here. 

Christine: Discussers. Yeah. 

Em: Uh, just the fact that half of his episodes are taking his own shirt off and being like, “Do you like my tattoos?” And it’s like, “Come on with this.” 

Christine: And he– He also loves– He loves to do that to the nuns specifically, the shirtless one– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –the shirtless, uh, activity. 

Roz: I saw Zak Bagans outside of my house. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. 

Em: He was looking for you. [laughs] 

Christine: Do you need– Do you need me to call somebody? This sounds troubling. [laughs] This sounds really tro– 

Em: Where do you live? 

Christine: Where do you mean? [laughs] 

Em: Why– Were you in a castle? 

Roz: It wasn’t, it wasn’t a hallucination. I– 

Christine: Are you sure? 

Roz: I– [laughs] I– Yeah. No, I do live, um, with Annabelle, but no, I live– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Well, that explains it. 

Roz: No, I live in LA, and this one day– This was like probably two years ago or something. 

Christine: Oh god. 

Roz: This one day, all of a sudden, I was like– I was just leaving, and I was on my street, and I look over, and I’m like, “Okay, that guy looks like– He’s very like Zak Bagans.” 

Christine: No… 

Roz: And I thought about sending like a video or picture to a friend of mine who likes Zak Bagans, and then I was like, “That is Zak Bagans.” 

Christine: No. 

Roz: And then I– 

Christine: That’s the most LA thing ever. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: And then I went to his Instagram, and there was like– He, he was posting that they were like doing some ghost hunt near me– 

Christine: Oh my lord. 

Em: –in LA. And, um, I– He’s got a real distinct look to him. 

Christine: I was gonna say, yeah. 

Roz: So– 

Christine: Em describes it really well as, um– he’s like the– What do you call it? The Ed H– Ed, Ed Har– 

Roz: Ed Hardy. 

Em: The poster child for Ed Hardy. 

Christine: Ed Hardy, poster child. 

Em: I also call him a luggage child ’cause he constantly looks like he’s just holding suitcases. 

Christine: Like a luggage guy. 

Roz: Oh, yes! That’s kind of what I noticed. He had– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: He had a walk to him. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: And I was like, “Gosh, that guy– whoever that is, he’s a big fan of Zak Bagans, that man.” Like that– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] And you were right too. 

Roz: And that is– [laughs] 

Christine: The biggest fan of Zak Bagans, yeah. 

Em: You hit nail on the head. 

Christine: Yeah, you really clocked him for sure. Yeah. 

Roz: Yeah. 

Em: Well, uh, we– Speaking of Zak Bagans– 

Christine: Speaking– [laughs] 

Em: –and all of the footage that we’ve caught– 

Roz: He’s here? Is he coming in? Is he gonna join the conversation? 

Christine: He’s right– [Christine leans to the side, raising her arm as if gesturing for someone to join her] 

Em: [laughs] The day that happens, we quit. Um– 

Christine: Good morning, Roz. [laughs] Look outside your house. 

Em: But uh, no, we have some, we have some spooky stories to tell everybody. Really spooky footage. Uh, thank you, Eva, for finding all of this. People have sent in their own photos and videos, and they’ve given us little snippets uh, ahead of time for us to read so we know what we’re looking at. But, um, we’re excited to get into it, and maybe if– 

Christine: We’ve never done this before either, so it’s exciting. 

Em: With your expertise maybe too, if you have– Maybe we, we could– If you think it’s debunkable, that’s interesting too, you know. Don’t be afraid to say whatever you want. Uh, but I’m curious to see it ’cause Eva sounds like she was actually scared looking at this stuff, so. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, would you like to go first Roz, as, as the guest? Uh– 

Roz: Sure. 

Em: Perfect. 

Roz: Let me, let me just say my piece about all this. 

Em: Go for it. 

Roz: Uh, ’cause I’ve been quiet for the past minute– 

Christine: I know. It’s unacceptable. 

Roz: –and it’s time for me to go on another rant. 

Em and Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: Uh, I– The thing with like footage and stuff– See, I believe– This coming from like your listeners and stuff ’cause I feel like they’re probably not trying to go viral with these clips or something. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: You know what I mean? But like the– It is so scary the AI like– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Roz: Just all of– It’s like I don’t know how we can ever tell what is real– 

Christine: True. 

Roz: –or not anymore when it comes to ghost stuff. I think that’s– 

Christine: We can’t even tell if like a person on AI is real anymore. I mean, we can now, but like in a few years, you won’t be able to. So yeah, good point. 

Em: Yeah. 

Roz: It’s so scary. So, I mean, um, w– A lot of times when people will send me videos or like, you know, tag me in someone’s post with 20 billion views on it, I’m like, “I don’t, I don’t know if that is–“ 

Em: Like immediately a bad taste in your mouth or? 

Christine: Red flag. Red flag. Yeah. 

Roz: It’s just hard to tell. But, but I’m sure these are gonna be the real deal. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, these are nothing like that. Right, Eva? [laughs] 

Roz: And if they’re not, I’m calling ‘em out. 

Em: We gotta, we gotta hope. But I– No, I totally agree. These– Especially if now AI is so sharp and clear with people and really complex storylines, if we just said, “Move the door an inch,” in a video that already exists, all of a sudden– 

Christine: Very good point. Yeah. 

Em: No– Or “Hey, put a mist somewhere. Make it more pixelated.” 

Roz: Right. 

Em: You know, that would– 

Christine: [chuckles] Make it more pixelated. Yeah. 

Em: I think you’re totally on to something that, uh, we’re in an era where it’s gonna be even harder to prove things. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: And that’s why like just the integrity and the trust of the people– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: –that are doing this is like so major. 

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Roz: But– Okay, so what am I doing? I’m reading a story? 

Em: Yeah. So– 

Christine: I guess you open number one. ’Cause Eva tries to make it as simplistic as possible for us to figure out. 

Roz: Oh, thanks, Eva. 

Christine: Um, so she sent a link in the chat, and I believe– 

Roz: Okay. 

Christine: Yeah, so you– 

Roz: Number one. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. And then you read that, and then I think there’s a, there’s a video after it that we can all watch simultaneously, I guess. 

Roz: This one from Lisa? 

Christine: That’s right. 

Roz: Okay. Um, I do read at like a fifth grade level, so give me a break. 

Christine: [laughs] That’s– 

Roz: Here we go. 

Em: No judgement at all. 

Christine: You’re in the right place. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors] 

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Story 1 – My Ghost Video 

Roz: Okay. Lisa writes, “Hi all!” With a waving hand, um, emoji. 

Em: Hey, girl. 

Christine: [laughs] Hey, girl. 

Roz: “So here is my video of a ghost pacing back and forth outside during a rainstorm.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Roz: “The location? At the time, this was the headquarters for Overstock.com.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: Is this an ad? 

Em: What? [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Promo code “drink.” 

Roz: This is a real interesting way for you to get me endorse– 

Christine: Oh my god, we finally got Roz to be our spokesperson. [laughs] 

Em: Finally. 

Roz: “So at the time, this was the headquarters for Overstock.com where my partner was working. They are recording the monitors where security is showing them the footage. This place in Midvale, Utah used to be a smelter.” 

Christine: What’s– Is that like a– 

Em: Smelter? 

Christine: It feels like something my dad was– works– 

Em: I hardly know her. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: [chuckles] 

Christine: Okay, that’s all we need to know. 

Roz: Smelter. 

Em: So sorry. 

Roz: This “used to be a smelter–“ 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: “–so I’m guessing it’s from someone doing their rounds checking that it was secure.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: That all the smelting is going smoothly. Um– 

Roz: So– Okay. And then– 

Christine: Okay, it’s like a, it’s like a, like a steel mill or like a, a smelting plant where they, you know, smelt things. [laughs] 

Roz: Where they smelt things. 

Em: Jeez. 

Roz: Absolutely. 

Christine: Okay, my dad worked in metallurgy, and so I do know actually that word. Um, but yes, I think it’s like a f– like a, a steel mill type thing. 

Em: Okay. 

Roz: Okay, work. Um, so– 

Christine: And we have a video. 

Roz: So we’re gonna watch the video now? 

Christine: Uh– 

Em: Yeah. Should we all watch at the same time? Do like a three, two, one? 

Christine: Okay, sure. 

Roz: Okay. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: [laughs] This is gonna be interesting. 

Em: Three, two, one. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. A video fades in, showing an empty parking lot on a rainy night. The streetlights reflect off the wet pavement. In the middle of the parking lot, a hazy white figure can be seen walking horizontally from the right side towards the left side of the screen, crossing the parking lot.] 

Woman in video: Okay. Uh, yeah. They’re walking. You can see this walking– 

Em: ‘Kay… 

[A security camera angle is seen in the top left corner of the screen, showing an empty parking lot.] 

Woman in video: What the fuck? 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: Oh. Oh, d– turn– Oh, yeah. Do you see this? 

[The hazy transparent white figure, now on the left side of the parking lot, disappears for a moment in the bright streetlight reflections before reappearing, continuing to walk all the way to the sidewalk at the edge of the parking lot.] 

Em: I, I see it. 

Woman in video: [unintelligible] 

Roz: I see it. 

[Once the figure reaches the end of the parking lot, they turn around and walk back across the parking lot,] 

Christine: If you turn the sound on, they’re like describing it. 

Woman 2 in video: Yeah, and they get– Like a-anytime you get in the light, light, they disappear. 

Christine: And then it comes back. 

Woman in video: And then they come back. 

Woman 2 in video: So it’s only when– 

Em: Okay. Oh, yeah. Okay. Now I see it walking back. Oh, the– Okay. 

Woman 2 in video: That is legit a ghost. 

Em: So halfway into the video or near the end– Oh, that’s– 

Woman 2 in video: No fucking way. 

Em: That looks much like– very much like a real person– 

[In a darker middle section of the parking lot, the hazy white figure’s outline is more defined in contrast to the dark background, appearing to be a person walking back to where they started on the right side of the parking lot.] 

Woman in video: Yeah, ’cause like– 

Woman 2 in video: That is a person walking, and they are a ghost. 

Em: –walking with like– 

Christine: Ew! At the end. 

Woman in video: That for sure is something– Wait– 

Christine: Oh, ew. 

Man in video: That’s so freaky. 

[The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: At the first half, I did– I didn’t totally see it. I just saw something moving, but by the end, that does– that is fully person-shaped. 

Christine: The last few seconds are very creepy. Yeah. 

Roz: Yeah. I was thinking initially like, “Okay, maybe this is like a, um, reflection.“ 

Christine: In the puddle, yeah. 

Em: Yes. 

Roz: ‘Cause you can tell that there’s lights reflecting in the, in the wetness of the ground– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: Or whatever that is– shininess. Um, I think that that is a ghost. I wish I had my gavel because a lot of times– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: –when I get asked– 

Christine: Oh, you misplaced your gavel? Um– 

Roz: I left– My gavel’s at the, uh, podcast studio. But– 

Christine: Aw. 

Roz: I, I would call that one a ghost becau– 

Christine: I mean, that– those last few seconds are actually creeping me out a bit. Yeah. 

Em: It’s certainly something I don’t know how to explain. Uh, I– I’m, I’m gonna go– I’m gonna go ghost just on pure “this is a mystery to me, and I wouldn’t know how, how it’s debunked.” 

Christine: Yeah, burden of proof. I have nothing to debunk it with. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah, yeah. That’s– I know I would hate to see it if I were driving by that parking lot. I don’t want to see it. I don’t want that– 

Roz: Oh, yeah. No. 

Em: –near me. Yeah– I– I’m so– The– My whole shtick, by the way, is that even though I’m happy to go ghost hunting, terrified of every single moment of it. So, um– 

Roz: Same. 

Christine: You’re like the Scooby-Doo of the group. Yeah. 

Roz: Absolutely. Me, too. 

Em: I’m the “Zoinks” character for sure. 

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] 

Em: Um– [laughs] But I– 

Roz: That is the– [sighs] That video– Well, it’s also, um, like security camera and then, I think, somebody else filming the security camera. 

Christine: Yes. 

Roz: So those two layers kind of make things a little tough, but– 

Christine: But they also make it less– to me, feel less AI-y, speaking of. 

Roz: Yeah. 

Christine: Like it feels more like on the spot, like you’re just filming it on your phone. But– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –I don’t know. I guess anything can be faked. But I think Lisa– I hope you’re telling the truth. I think you’re telling the truth. 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: I think that whoever that is that is smelter energy, walking through– 

Christine: Oh my god, you’re right. I forgot about the smelting. 

Roz: Yeah, that’s a smelter if I’ve ever– 

Christine: Maybe that’s a metallurgy– It’s a steelworker. 

Roz: –smelled one. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Ever smelled one.” [laughs] Whoever smelt it, dealt it. 

Roz: [unintelligible] 

Em: Man. Alright. 

Story 2 – I HAVE A VIDEO!!!! 

Christine: Um, okay. You wanna read the next one, Em? 

Em: Sure. Yes. Um, this is– [chuckles] The, the subject line is just: “I HAVE A VIDEO!!!!” So thank you for letting us know. 

Christine: It worked, yeah. 

Em: Um, this is from Brandi. Looking for any pronouns? No. Damn, Brandi. Okay, we’re gonna play that little game, that mystery game. Brandi says, “Hi Em, Christine, fur babies, whoever is picking stories–“ Eva “–tiny humans, and all others who help run this podcast. My name is Brandi. Please feel free to use all names mentioned.” Great. Perfect. “I asked because consent is key.” That’s right. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “Anywho, uh, myself, my husband, Shane, my sister, Helen, and our friends, Memory and Jake, have a ghost adventures/ghost hunting group. And we were asked to investigate a home where a young girl was murdered–“ 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: “–and it took years to catch her killer.” 

Roz: Mm. 

Em: Uh, “Years after this happened, we caught what we believe is this poor girl’s spirit on the camera.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: “I have attached the video, uh, that we recorded, and we did not see this with our own eyes. In a news article–“ Uh– Oh, “We also attached a news article about what happened in the ‘90s.” So that’s all we got, but shout-out, their group is called RAVEN Paranormal. 

Christine: Kickass. 

Em: Um, so that’s, that’s all we got. So– 

Christine: Shall we click? 

Em: Uh– 

Roz: Okay. I’m scared. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Sure. Wait, hang on. Am I okay? I don’t– 

Christine: This is the one that has a link. 

Em: Oh, it’s literally a link. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: I was like– 

Roz: Oh, it’s in the– Okay. 

Em: –“For someone who has a video–“ 

Christine: [laughs] YouTube, it says. 

Em: Got it. Okay. 

Christine: Okay. 

Roz: Okay. 

Christine: Ready? 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. A video fades in of a dark room lit with only one or two lights low to the ground, casting tall shadows on the walls. One man stands near a door, holding a recording device. Another man wearing a baseball cap sits next to the camera, held by a woman offscreen. The man in the baseball cap is looking down at a device, tapping on the screen.] 

[A sound like a baby’s cry comes from one of the group’s devices. One of the men chuckle.] 

Woman offscreen: [singing “Baby Shark”] ♪ Baby shark, doo doo ♪ 

Man: I love that. 

Woman offscreen: [singing] ♪ Baby shark, doo doo ♪ 

[Another baby-like cry comes from the device. The two men chuckle.] 

Man by door: Yeah, [unintelligible] don’t want that. 

Woman offscreen: [singing, higher] ♪ Baby– ♪♪ [laughs] 

Roz: Oh, not “Baby Shark.” 

[Another sound like a baby’s cry followed by a sound that could be a baby giggling comes from the device. It is followed by indecipherable sounds, possibly someone speaking.] 

Man by door: [mimicking the device] Naw-nam-nam-nam-nam-nam-nam. 

Man: No. 

Woman offscreen: What the hell was that? 

Woman holding camera offscreen: I don’t know. 

Woman offscreen: Its microphone sucks. 

[On the right side of the screen, a dark shadow of a small girl with wavy hair down appears to the right of the man in a baseball cap. She moves across the screen as if running through the middle of the room, disappearing briefly from view as she passes behind the man in the baseball cap’s head before reappearing on the other side. A bright light points towards the camera on the left side of the man in the baseball cap. As she crosses in front of the light, the light is briefly blocked. She runs in front of the man by the door before disappearing from view off the left side of the screen. She crosses the room in less than a second.] 

Woman offscreen: Excuse me. I would have died laughing if that thing would have picked that up. 

Roz: Wait, where’s the girl? 

[The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: I feel like I didn’t see anything. 

Christine: Is it her voice? 

Em: I think it’s just the audio of a girl giggling? 

Christine: Oh, ew. 

Em: It sounded like it was maybe a girl giggling. 

Christine: That was a little girl? Okay, hold on. 

Roz: But wait, are we seeing– ’Cause I thought they said we didn’t see this when it happened. Um– 

Em: Oh, that’s a great point. Yeah, okay. Hm. 

Christine: Oh. “We believe we– is her c– spirit on camera.” Okay. Hold on. 

Roz: Oh, it’s– “It appears in the area where it is not possible for a person to stand.” What, what area? 

Em: [laughs] Hm. Is it– 

Roz: “The only light source in the room was a table– was on the table in front of me, so it could not be caused by any of our team members.” 

Christine: Oh, it’s this– There’s this weird light. Hold on. 

Em: Do you see it? 

Roz: I need timestamps. 

Em: I need a big red circle around what I’m supposed to be looking– Uh, I’m– ’Cause I keep looking next to the guy on the right and like that looks like a closet. 

Roz: I have a feeling I’m gonna all of a sudden see a little girl, and I’m gonna scream. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Don’t even. Oh, wait. I just saw it. Oh, fuck. Okay, I did. 

Roz: Where? 

Em: Where is it? 

Christine: Yes. Okay. It like zips across the screen. 

Roz: Give me a time. 

Christine: Okay, hold on. Let me make sure I got the right timestamp. 

Em: Roz, are– I’m losing my mind here. I don’t think I see it. 

Christine: Okay, go to– [gasps] Go to 20 seconds and hit play. 

Em: 20 seconds? Okay. 

Christine: And mu-mute it. Mute it. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. The video plays again without sound.] 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: But just like watch 20 seconds and then watch something go across the screen. 

[The shadow of the girl appears and darts across the screen. The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: No! 

Em: Shut up. [laughs] 

Christine: That’s horrible. [laughs] 

Em: Oh my god. Okay. Hey, I actually– You’re to– Remember, Roz, when you said, “I’m just gonna see a little girl”? 

Christine: Yeah, and then I started screaming? Yeah. 

Roz: Hang on. I’m gonna put it in like um– 

Christine: Do like a really slo-mo like– 

Roz: –slow playback. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: We’re gonna do 0.75– 

Em: Oh. 

Roz: Or no, 0.50. 

Em: I’m gonna do 0.50. 

Roz: 0.50. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: [laughs] Like we’re like, “What is it?” 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: Okay, wait a second. This is scary. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. The video plays again in slow motion without sound. The shadow of the girl runs across the screen, easier to make out in slow motion.] 

Em: It’s moving s– Oh my god. 

Christine: Ew! I don’t like it slow. 

Em: Christine, thank god for your eyes ’cause I did not see that. 

[The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Christine: I don’t like it slow. I don’t like it. 

Roz: [gasps] 

Em: Well– 

Christine: Okay, that’s horrible. [laughs] 

Em: Hey, not to be a “Zoinks!” kid again, but I’m pretty sure that was a fucking ghost. [chuckles] 

Christine: [laughs] I don’t like that one bit. 

Em: I’m trying to l– 

Roz: Yeah, that was definitely the little girl. 

Em: I’m trying to pause it just so I can just see her standing still. 

Christine: It's like a creepy shape. 

Em: ’Cause part of me is like, “Was– Could it just be someone’s shadow? Could it just be the worst ver–“ No, it’s like directly across– 

Christine: But it’s like in a weird spot. Yeah. Um– 

Em: And it’s behind the guy in front of us– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –but in front of the guy in– Oh my god. 

Christine: Well, yeah– 

Em: That’s gross. Where’s your gavel? 

Christine: Where’s your gavel? 

[Em mimics slamming a gavel] 

Christine: Yeah, we don’t even need it, just slam your fists on the table. Um, I think that’s a ghost. Also, uh, if you’re listening to this, and you’re like, “What are they looking at?”, I guess go to our YouTube. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Just side note, we’re gonna– I assume we’re putting these on YouTube. 

Em: Sure, sure. 

Christine: Um, okay. Wow. Oh, and then– and the saddest part is like there is a girl there that was killed. That’s– And she came out for “Baby Shark.” So maybe she’s just– 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: –you know, looking for some, some friends. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I’m sorry. And then as she runs out, we’re like, [screams] “Ahh!” 

Christine: We’re all like– [laughs] 

Roz: I know. 

Christine: “Get me outta here!” 

Roz: I think about that all the time with ghosts. 

Christine: So sad. Yeah. 

Em: [sighs] 

Roz: She just wanted to be like, “Hey, I’m safe here.” And we’re all like, “Ahh!” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Literally, sometimes Em will go, “Hi, if you’re here, you can come forward,” and something will beep, and I’ll go, [whisper-screaming] “Get the fuck away!” I’m like, “You [laughs] didn’t just– 

Roz: Yeah. 

Christine: “–gas light the shit out of this ghost.” 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Roz: [laughs] 

Christine: “Okay, here I come.” 

Em: I’m such like a toxic boyfriend in, in a haunted house. I’m like, “No, no, no. You’re safe.” 

Christine: “You’re safe.” 

Em: And then I’m like, “Get the fuck away from me.” 

Christine: You’re like, “Too close. Too close.” Yeah. Whew. [sighs] 

Em: Um, wow. Okay, Christine, your turn. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Hopefully, that’s the most, uh, activity my heart has today all at once. 

Christine: Yeah, that was a lot. 

Story 3 – Video Submission 

Christine: Uh, okay. H– This is from Kellie. It says, “Hello! This particular night, my cat was acting really strange. She was fixated on something that I could not see. It looked like a person was playing with her ca–” Oh no. “–playing with her and petting her–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Wait, what? [laughs] Oh, “My cat was acting really strange.” I’m sorry. “She was fixated on something that I could not see. It looked like a person was playing with her and petting her, but no one was there. Just after that stopped, I heard something outside, so I went to live view–“ Oh god. “–on my Ring camera and saw this. 

Roz: Oh no. 

Christine: “Which again has no–“ Ring camera does creep me out in general. 

Roz: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: Um, and it says, “I promise the video is not submitted because of the deer in it.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So apparently there’s also a deer involved? 

Em: Great. 

Christine: Um, okay. So I think it’s the next file after that, if you guys have it. 

Em: Sure. 

Roz: Okay. 

Christine: All right. Let’s play it. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. Black and white night vision video footage from a Ring camera fades onscreen. In the bottom right corner, it is timestamped “08/05/2025 23:45:59 EDT.” From the camera’s view, a sidewalk leading up to a house is visible at the bottom of the screen. The sidewalk ends with a small fenced garden before it leads up to the house. A grassy lawn fills the yard on the other side of the sidewalk with a perimeter of trees lining the back of it. A deer is trying to eat from a bird feeder hanging in the garden. No sounds are heard besides nighttime crickets chirping.] 

Christine: Okay. There is a deer. I see that. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: Cute. Bambi. 

Christine: It is really cute. 

Em: Yeah, I love this. 

Roz: [sighs] I wanna live wherever this is. [gasps] 

[A blurry white orb appears on the right side of the screen, floating towards the left side.] 

Em: It’s so peaceful. 

Christine: Eugh. 

Em: Okay. Oh! 

[The orb floats up as it continues moving to the left.] 

Roz: Ooh, a floaty. 

Christine: It’s like chilling. 

[The orb floats down to the middle of the screen, continuing towards the left side of the screen in a slow wavy motion.] 

Em: What a– That is arguably the slowest orb I’ve ever seen in my life. 

Christine: It is an or– It’s a r– It’s a really slow orb. Yeah. 

[As it approaches the left side, the orb floats upwards to the left corner, disappearing off camera as the video ends.] 

Em: That– Yeah, inter– 

[The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: So orbs I’m always hesitant about because– 

Roz: Same. 

Em: –it could be a bug. It could be dust. 

Christine: It’s so hard to– Yeah. 

Em: Could be who knows what, could be just like– 

Christine: Especially on a Ring camera. A lot of times, they end up being bugs when you like slow-mo it, but this does not look like a bug. 

Em: It being slow is interesting. If it was just kind of like [pointing index across the screen in a random pattern] “doo-doo-doodl-doo,” I’d go, “That’s a bug.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Yeah, and it’s kind of like bouncing up and down. I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Looks like swimming through the air. 

Em: I don’t know what– What do you think, Roz? 

Roz: Yeah, I mean, orbs are hard. [sighs] But, um, I also think it’s fun to say ghost when you– just for fun. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Especially like with the deer in the background– It’s a really g– With the eyes lit up, it was pretty creepy. 

Em: I appreciate actually that the deer was there because it helped me see how, how fast the orb was moving. 

Christine: That’s true, yeah. 

Em: ’Cause otherwise I would have thought the whole video was slowed down or something. 

Christine: Like sped up or slowed down, right. 

Roz: Oh, true. 

Christine: True. Okay. And it– Uh, also the cat “was acting strange and was fixated on something it couldn’t see, like a person was playing with her or petting her.” And then they heard something outside, presumably not the deer. I feel like they’re pretty quiet. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And then saw that. Okay. Eugh. All right. I don’t know what that is, but it’s definitely chilling outside your house for a long time. 

Roz: I think it’s a ghost. 

Christine: It’s for sure a ghost. If Roz says it– 

Roz: I think it’s a spooky ghost. 

Christine: For sure. 

Em: As long as it stays outside, we’re good. 

Christine: That’s a good point. [laughs] 

Roz: And I think you should move– 

Christine: I think you should move. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: –and you should let me have your house. 

Christine: And Roz wants to move in. [laughs] But leave the little deer feeder out there. 

Roz: Yeah. 

Christine: For us. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah, that would be useful for us. Yeah. All right. 

Story 4 – Boudoir Photos in the Afterlife? WITH PHOTO 

Christine: Um, whose turn is it? 

Em: Oh, the next one is a– seems to be a full-blown letter– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –Roz, if you’re– 

Christine: Do you want– 

Roz: Is this me? 

Em: Do you– 

Christine: Do you want to read it? 

Em: Do– Would you like t– 

Christine: Or do you want us– one of us to read it? 

Roz: Oh, yeah. No, I got it. Don’t you worry. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Great. 

Roz: Okay. Wait a second. Where did I put that? Uh, I think I got scared and, and exited out. 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: Okay, here it is. 

Em: A digital escape, I see. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: We’re on number four, right? 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: I believe so, yes. 

Roz: Oh my god. Okay. 

Christine: Yeah, I know. 

Em: I know. 

Christine: We can read it. You want me to read it? Or Em to read it? 

Roz: We’ll do popcorn style. Okay? 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: I love it. 

Roz: So I’ll do the first paragraph. 

Em: Perfect. 

Roz: Okay. [excited, theatrical tone of voice] “What’s up, spooky crew?” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: “My name is Tommee,” spelled T-O-M-M-E-E. 

Em: Love. 

Christine: That feels like a ghost already. 

Roz: [laughs] “And I have a spooky story and photo to share with you. This takes place way back in the olden age of 2009.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: “I know. I know.” What was that like? God, I can’t even imagine. 

Christine: Yikes. 

Roz: That was so long ago. Um, okay. “My stepdad passed away in his bedroom of a heart attack in the middle of the night.” 

Em: Oof. 

Roz: “Now, before you feel bad, just know that he was a very bad man to my mother and our family.” 

Christine: Oh. [chuckles] 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I need more of that kind of like, uh, comfort when people are telling me about dead people. Like, “Don’t worry, he was an asshole.” 

Roz: Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: It’s like, “Okay, I feel better now, thanks.” 

Roz: I mean, assholes die. 

Christine: That’s true. Thank God. 

Roz: And– 

Em: I love that. I have to remember that sometimes. 

Christine: Asshole– It’s like a– It feels like a embroidered pillow, you know? 

Roz: Well, you know, it’s like– 

Christine: It’s like just something to remember. 

Roz: I feel like anytime you hear about someone dying, the instinct is to always be like, “They were the best.” 

Christine: I know. 

Roz: And like, you know, sometimes they weren’t, okay? 

Christine: No, mostly– Most of the time– 

Em: “They were a light.” [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah, “they lit up a room.” Mm-hmm. 

Roz: Oh, yes. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: “They lit up a room.” Uh, okay. So, “With all honesty, I don’t think his death came soon enough.” Oh my god. You know what– 

Christine: Roz, how can you say something like that? [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: I, I am– This is what Tommee said. T-O-M-M-E-E. 

Em: No, we’re gonna isolate that clip for numbers actually. It’s all you. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] For numbers. Finally go viral. 

Roz: “Anyway, it’s August of 2009. I’m 15, and for some reason, I’m using this cell phone instead of my own (to be honest, probably because I used all of my texts for the month or something).” 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Ah. 

Roz: “In case you’re wondering, it was an LG Shine–” So, now, this is why this email is so damn long. You’re gonna explain what kind of phone– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] But then– But see, the problem is when they don’t write this, Em and I sit there and go, “Why didn’t they tell us what kind of phone it was?” 

Roz: Okay, okay. 

Christine: Like we’re very annoying in that way. 

Roz: Okay. 

Em: Yeah, they can’t win ever. They can’t. 

Christine: They can’t win. Yeah. 

Roz: [laughs] “–which was a slide up phone with a mirror screen, but it still didn’t have a full keyboard. (I don’t know what we– what they were thinking with this.)” 

Em: Okay. 

Roz: Okay, someone else. 

Em: You gotta tell us which one. It’s popcorn. You gotta pick. 

Christine: Oh, is that how it works? 

Roz: Oh. Um, Em. 

Em: [makes a “damn it!” expression] Thank you. “So one day I’m using his phone to take selfies so I can update my profile picture on Facebook and doing whatever other dumb things teen me did back then. I snap a few pictures and then take out the memory card, so I can transfer them to the computer to upload the ones I like.” I remember the days. That was lovely. 

Christine: Yeah, it took so long back then. 

Em: “I hook up the memory card to the computer and pulled up a folder of all the photos on his phone.” Uh-oh. “When I was using the computer to go through them, I saw a preview of a photo taken from the doorway of their bedroom facing their bed. [sucks in a breath in anticipation] Nothing caught my eye from a quick glimpse, but I decided to look at it fully. And my first thought was that my mom somehow took a picture of him dead on the floor.” 

Roz: [gasps] 

Christine: What? 

Em: After– 

Christine: Oh, so he’s already passed at this point, and they’re us– Tommee is using the stepdad’s ph– the dead stepdad’s phone. 

Em: I love, I love that. It’s like, “You sucked. Also give me your phone.” 

Christine: “Give me your LG Slide or Shine or whatever.” [laughs] 

Em: Wow. Um, “After a closer look, I don’t see anyone in the first photo. Except there is a fleshy–“ Of all the words. “–fleshy colored mist on or near a pile of towels on the bed. The mist seemed– mist seemed to protrude from one towel that was sticking up more than the others.” 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: “When you look carefully at it, you can see a lower back spine and even a little bit of the swelling from his beer gut.” 

Roz: What? 

Christine: What? 

Em: “He also had shortish curly gray hair. And the towel in question was his favorite towel.” So wait, did we get a shot of him like out of the shower as a ghost or something? 

Christine: [laughs] Yay. I can’t wait to see it. 

Roz: [groans softly] 

Em: Mm. “Whenever he would get out of the shower, he would have that towel wrapped around his waist to walk from the bathroom to his room. If you look at where this mist and the towel connect, it looks like it’s at his waist, and the towel even looks like it were– if it were wrapped around someone’s body instead of just a pile on the bed.” Popcorn Christine. 

Christine: Thank you. “Of course, your first thought would be, ‘Well, this is just a photo someone took of him before he died, and it didn’t turn out very well.’ But if you go to the details of the photo, you can see the different stats on it, like when it was taken. This photo was taken on the LG Shine, not a smartphone, three days after he died.” 

Em: Hmm. 

Christine: “My mother was in no state of mind to have done something like this because she was grieving herself into a bender. My brother is older than me and lives elsewhere. My baby sister wasn’t home because we had her stay with her father for a little while. For the last 16 years, I’ve managed to keep up with this photo, from flip phone to desktop computer to laptop to multiple smartphones. There’s never been an explanation for this photo. Not to mention, that the area where the mist is on the bed is on his side of the bed. He died there but technically was on the floor when he was found and my mother started CPR.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Now, Em, this is where I’d like you to step in because it does say “Zak Bagans’s voice,” and you need to– You’re the best at it in my opinion. 

Em: [sighs] Sorry, Roz. I’m so sorry. 

Roz: No, please. 

Em: Last time I ever see you, I’m sure, after this. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [mimicking Zak Bagans] “Could this be–“ Hang on. “Could this be the spirit of my stepfather leaving this mortal plane after having one last shower? Or is it a different being attempting to be sexy by taking provocative towel photos on a cheap cell phone?” 

Christine: [laughs] “Thank you both for doing what you do.” 

Em: That was Zak. I– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] “I forced my husband to the Springfield, Missouri show, and we had an absolute blast.” Okay. Uh, I’m very, very excited. It says full permission to show anywhere and everywhere. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Um, wow. Okay. Good job, Em. And let’s see if it really– Let’s see what– Ew. Okay. 

Em: I haven’t looked yet. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. A dimly lit photo of a bedroom fades into view. A large unmade bed takes up most of the room with a wooden headboard and footboard. In front of the bed, there appears to be a blurry and partly translucent figure of a white man with white gray hair, facing away from the camera as he crosses in front of it. He is partly stooped over and appears to be shirtless with a striped white towel wrapped around his waist. The back of his figure from the shoulders down is more opaque, and he gets more translucent and hazy towards his head and the front of his torso.] 

Roz: Oh, that’s fleshy. 

Christine: That is fleshy. 

Em: [chuckles] You know what? I, I judged the “fleshy” too early. That is exactly what I would have said as well. 

Christine: Unfortunately. So I’m trying to figure– Where’s the towel here? So– 

Roz: The towel’s at the wai– 

Christine: I do– 

Roz: That is– That’s– 

Christine: It does look like a man bending over. 

Em: It does. 

Roz: That looks very much like– 

Em: A man. 

Roz: –a ghost to me. 

Christine: I mean– 

Em: [chuckles] Roz, you’re such a team player here, just like, “A ghost, ghost, ghost, ghost.” [laughs] 

Christine: “Ghost, ghost.” Yeah, you fit right in. 

Roz: That is a ghost. I– [sighs] I mean– d– 

[The photo fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Christine: I think– I– The fact that it was three days after he died is really like unsettling ’cause who is taking these photos on the memory card of the phone three days after? 

Em: Mm-hmm. Well, I mean, that feels like– We’re really ignoring here– like why did mom take a random picture on her phone? It feels like– Did she see this in real life and grab a picture? Or did– Was this like by chance as she was taking a picture? 

Christine: Well, she said the mom didn’t take the picture. She said my mom would never have– 

Em: It was just on the phone? 

Christine: She said it was just on the phone, and she doesn’t know how it got there. 

Em: Can you imagine if this is, I mean, truly like as Zak Bagans said, this is like his– this was the last shot he wanted of himself. 

Christine: Ew. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: And then you’re like, “Oh, let me get my Facebook profile picture updated,” and you’re like, “Oh no, I can’t escape this guy.” 

Roz: Eww. 

Christine: “He’s like still on the phone.” Yuck. 

Roz: Well, okay. Do you remember like back in, I don’t know, the ‘90s/2000s, whatever, how like sometimes two photos would get like super imposed onto each other– 

Em: Mm! 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Roz: –when, when you like develop it. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: It, it feels like that almost– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: –but that didn’t happen with cell phone photos. 

Christine: No. Yeah, it looks– ’Cause he’s like see-through, but you can see like his back and everything. And– 

Em: Great point. 

Christine: Yeah, ugh. 

Roz: Yeah, it– 

Christine: And the fact that the bed is like– the, the blanket is like pulled off to the side like he’s climbing in– Ugh, ugh. 

Em: And– 

Roz: And he has a little bit of like, uh, m-mist around him, or, you know, like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: His aura or something. 

Roz: Aura, fleshy aura. 

Christine: Maybe it took him like three days to get out of there. I don’t know. 

Em: And I don’t, I don’t know enough about the de– the exact details of how he died, but it does look like maybe it’s a recreation of his last moments– 

Christine: Like you’re bent over. 

Em: –where maybe he was like, yeah, falling over on the bed– 

Christine: Ugh. 

Em: –before he hit the ground, which is– 

Roz: Gross. 

Christine: If he had a heart attack– Yeah, Oh my god. 

Em: Oy. 

Christine: I can’t– Okay, they said we have full permission to share this on social, so I hope everybody weighs in. Um, well, thank you. And I’m– I would say sorry for your loss, [chuckles] but it sounds like you don’t want me to say that, Tommee, so. 

Em: Right, yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] Um, th– 

Em: But thank you for the photo. [chuckles] 

Christine: Thank you for sending it in. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Roz: It’s good. 

Christine: It’s very good. 

Em: Yeah. All right. 

Story 5 – I HAVE A PHOTO OF A GHOST DON’T CLOSE THE PORTAL PLEASE 

Em: Oh, is– So is it my turn now? 

Christine: I think it’s you now, yeah. 

Em: Okay. We got another long one, everyone. Or– [sighs] 

Christine: That’s really long. 

Em: Buckle in. Buckle in. I– I’ll– I, I got it. I got it. 

Christine: You got it. You got it. 

Em: This is titled, “I have a photo of a ghost. Don’t close the portal please.” What? 

Christine: What is that supposed to mean? 

Em: Help me. Okay, so this says, “Hello, I’m Maddy (she/her)–“ Thank you for normalizing pronouns. “And I’m coming at you live with my first ghost hunt I’ve ever done with real photos of a ghost I’ve caught on camera. Of course, I’ve attached photos for you.” Thank you so much, Maddy. “In December of 2020, my parents surprised me for my birthday to go ghost hunting in Pennhurst Asylum in Chester County, Pennsylvania. I remember being so nervous and excited, mainly for– mainly because this would be my first time ever going officially ghost hunting in a notorious haunted location. But also with the fact that my father was going to be coming with me, and he’s scared of his own shadow.” Oh, great. It’s like when we go ghost hunting, Christine. 

Roz: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, it is. Sounds really familiar. 

Em: “He will send my mom to check a scary noise while he hides in the room.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Yeah, it sounds like me. Um, Christine grew up in a literal graveyard, so uh, every time there’s a sound, she’s like, “Whatever. This is a– my– a typical Tuesday.” 

Christine: I’m like, “Just let the ghost walk through here. It’s fine.” 

Roz: [groans] Ugh. 

Em: Could not, could not be me. “The only prior knowledge that I have of this place was from Buzzfeed’s Unsolved Network where they talked about events that have happened here and also ghosts that are often seen in the main building. Um, and I believe it was called the ‘Mayflower.’” Okay. “I mainly remembered a very tall man named Fisher was one of the spirits that is often seen on the third floor. The guide told us normally if you stand at the end of the hallway and look down the long rows of doors, you could sometimes see his shadowy figure peeking his head out towards you when you call out his name.” 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Em: I would not call out his name. 

Christine: Fisher? I hardly know her. No. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: We already did that joke today. [laughs] Sorry. 

Em: Yeah, but the callback is always ten times better. 

Christine: Well, it needs to happen a third time. Roz, whenever you, whenever you wanna interject later. You’ll be ready. 

Em: It’s all you. 

Roz: Don’t worry. I’ll be keeping my eyes out for an “-er” word. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “I could literally feel my heart in my ass when she was just joyfully calling him out to see us when I was looking at the dark abyss.” 

Christine: [laughs] Oh god. 

Em: Yeah. Can you imagine you’re the tour g–? “Oh, yeah. Sometimes he’ll poke his head out. By the way, Fisher? Fisher?” 

Christine: They’re like, “Come here.” Yeah, ugh. 

Roz: [groans] Eugh. 

Em: “Sadly through–“ Oh, “Sadly though, he did not make his presence known… Or so I thought. We moved on from that building and went to go explore the tunnel that led to the morgue and did a spirit box session there. There was then a part where our guide asked if there was anyone in our group who would like to go sit in the tunnel by themselves and listen for footsteps that are normally heard walking back and forth. I raised my hand immediately while my dad muttered, ‘You’ve gotta be kidding me,’ under his breath.” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: [laughs] Oh, poor guy. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: He’s just trying to bond, man. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um, “Eventually after we viewed a couple more locations on the property, we made it back to the first building. We were able to go investigating on our own. My dad and I went back to the third floor and started to walk around and take flash photos on our phone.” 

Roz: Mm. 

Em: ”After we were done–“ What kind of phone did she have? I’m mad she didn’t tell us. 

Christine: L– LG Shine. [laughs] 

Em: After– [laughs] 

Roz: Yeah, we need to know this at this point. 

Christine: [laughs] Sorry, Roz will not accept any, any less. 

Em: “After we were done, we met up with the rest of the group, uh, that was at the end of the hall. And they were putting EMF detectors around a Christmas tree– 

Roz: That “tor”? I hardly know hor– her. 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Hey-o. 

Em: Thank you. “They were putting–“ 

Christine: I like to think Roz scanned ahead and was just waiting for you to say that word. [laughs] 

Roz: Stop. [laughs] 

Christine: Detect-tor. 

Em: That’s how movie magic works though sometimes. 

Christine: That’s beautiful. 

Em: You just gotta be prepared. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “They were putting EMF detectors around a Christmas tree, trying to ask spirits some last questions. Besides my group, there were two other people doing their own investigation on the same floor. Everything was going fine when all of a sudden we heard heavy breathing down the hallway.” 

Roz: [makes a hoarse, rasping noise] 

Christine: There it is. Sound effects. 

Em: I love that. “Everything was going fine when–“ Oh, nope. I just wanted to hear you do it again. Um– 

Christine: No. [laughs] 

Roz: [repeats the horse, rasping noise] 

Em: [laughs] “Full-on panic attack breathing and fre– freaking the fuck out. Uh, it was a man in the, in the coup– Oh, it was a man. It was the man of the couple that was down the hallway.” 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: “My guide ran over to the couple in a panic and was like, ‘What’s happening? Is he okay?’ And the lady said, ‘He’s okay. He just had an experience.’” 

Roz: Oh… 

Christine: That’s what my mother would say when like something happened to me, and they’re like, “What’s wrong with her?” “She just had an experience. Please, please don’t bother her.” 

Em: [laughs] “Well, I found out later–“ 

Christine: “She’s unwell.” 

Em: “I found out later that he was on the team members of Pen-Pennhurst Asylum and was known to have a spiritual sensitivity. So between that and not being able to feel my toes, I told my dad it was time to go. And we made it to 1:30 in the morning. The next morning, I decided just to go through my photos of the night to see if I caught anything. And there were a few orbs here and there, but nothing could prepare me for what I was about to discover.” 

Roz: [gasps] 

Em: “There was one photo that stood out from the rest in the middle of my bright flashy photos. It was almost pitch black– It– almost a pitch black photo of what should have been the bathroom. The only color that I could see was a red hue on the border of it. I decided then to edit the photo and turn up the brightness and exposure–“ 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Uh, “Looking back at the camera is a tall man who seemed to be surprised to see me taking a flash photo in the restroom. You could s–“ 

Christine: [gasps] 

Roz: Oh, you’re a perv. 

Em: I hate that. 

Christine: You’re a pervert. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “You could see his bald head, handlebar mustache, and his eyeballs.” 

Roz: [gasps] 

Christine: [high-pitched and drawn out] What? 

Em: Eyeballs. Eyeballs. 

Christine: Eyeballs? 

Em: Uh, “That was when I realized that I must have caught Fisher using the potty, and he tried to mess up the photo.” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Roz: Oh my– 

Em: “You can’t–“ 

Christine: He’s like, “Leave me alone. I’m trying to go potty.” 

Em: Yeah. And then Maddy says, “I would do the same thing.” Uh, “Anyways, sorry this was super long. Feel free to cut out anything. Thank you for everything. Stay spooky! P.S. Em, when you posted a picture of the hot dog you ate in Philly recently, I was the one who said it was the scariest thing I’ve ever seen.” Oh, okay. Well, I did eat it though, so it wasn’t that scary to me. Maybe in my tummy later, but– 

[faint police sirens in background] 

Em: –it was very lovely. Okay, here are– 

Roz: Sorry, there’s sirens going by for me. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: That’s okay. That’s– I think that’s the ambulance Maddy called about my hot dog apparently. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um, okay. Here’s– There’s four pictures, I guess: the original photo– 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Roz: Okay. 

Em: –a photo with the exposure up, and then an outline. This– Earlier when I said I need a big red circle– 

Roz: This is how you do it. 

Christine: Yeah, you did say that. Okay. 

Em: Perfect. Okay. So, the first picture: just black. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos are replaced with a dark photo. It is nearly entirely black with a faint red haze along the right side going down into the bottom right corner.] 

Em: I don’t see anything. 

Christine: Yeah. And there’s like a little red tinge on the side. 

Roz: Yeah, okay. 

Christine: Then you go, and it’s more red. Okay. I see outline of a doorway. 

Em: Outl– Okay. Then the second one. 

[The second photo fades in. It’s the same as the first photo, but the exposure has been pushed up, making the photo a little brighter. The redness from the side has grown and fades into the rest of the photo. A handwritten white bracket outlines a black figure on the left side. There is a faint lighter grey splotch towards the top, but the figure is still hard to make out.] 

Roz: Okay. 

Em: Oh, it looks like a little– like a Slender Man almost in– 

Christine: Ew. 

Em: Do you see– If you look at the very top, you can see like a face kind of in a moaning–? 

[The third photo fades in. It’s the same as the second photo with the exposure boosted, but the white bracket pointing to the figure is gone.] 

Christine: It looks like the guy from The Scream. You know, that painting? 

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And he looks– 

Christine: I can’t tell where– It is cr– It looks like a human form. I’m trying to figure out where the bath– Like wh– Is he like looking in a mirror? I don’t know. I can’t tell. 

Em: Oh, I see it now. I– So, it’s not “The S–“ I agree with you that it looked originally like The Scream mask– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but that’s actually– 

Roz: It’s not that. 

Em: It’s not that. He’s– That’s his nose handlebar area. Um– 

Christine: [under her breath] Nose handlebar area. 

Em: If you look at the th– I think the third picture is the best one, and you can see him kind of standing, and I think he’s just– His face is turned towards us– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and that’s the center of his face that we were looking at. 

Christine: Oh. Oh! Yeah, some of these you gotta like– Oh, I see. Okay. 

Em: So I feel like this one is similar to orbs– 

[The third photo fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: –where I’m like anytime it’s a pixelated picture, I get hesitant. I would certainly– I’m not sitting here and pretending like I wouldn’t be absolutely freaked out if it were me. Um, but yeah, I, I never know. I, I always wonder if I’m playing tricks with my own brain. Like those, those illusion pictures where it’s like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –“Do you see the woman or the–“ 

Roz: Right. 

Em: “– tower?” I don’t know. So, um, I, I think I’m seeing it. It looks creepy. 

Christine: Where’s his mustache? 

Em: It– So the, the part that we thought was the mouth of a Scream mask– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –is his actual nose, and then it– there’s a handlebar massage underneath it. 

Roz: Alright, I’m not seeing this one. I’m not gonna lie. 

Em: I think I’m– 

Christine: I see like a skull face. Like– 

Em: I think that’s supposed to be like with the exposure that’s lighter than the darker parts of him which is his clothes. 

Christine: And that’s his face? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I feel like– 

Em: I think I see it maybe the most. 

Christine: He looks like a skull to me. 

Em: I understand though. I know what you’re saying. Hm. 

Roz: It’s a ghost. 

Em: You know what? 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: I can’t see it, but I’ll– I believe you. 

Christine: I mean, it’s fucking creepy. I see like– 

Em: It’s– 

Christine: It looks to me like a sk– like a creepy skull, but I think, um, I think I’m probably misinterpreting it. 

Em: If I’m seeing it right, it looks like he has like such a power stance. Uh, I wish I could– 

Christine: I w– 

Em: –redo it for you. 

Christine: Yeah, I wish you could outline it for me. 

Em: Yeah, I’ll have to give you a little, a little presentation when it comes– I’ll stand, stand up and pose. 

Christine: Um, I don’t want, I don’t want Maddy to think I’m like dissing the photo. I do– I am very frightened of it, and I don’t wanna look at it anymore. But I– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: I feel like it’s scarier ’cause I can’t figure out what I’m looking at. [chuckles] Like which part’s his head? 

Em: I think it’s scarier ’cause I can see it, and I’m like, “Oh, I would not want that–” 

Christine: Yeah. You’re like, “Please stop.” Yeah. 

Em: It actually does– Now that I’m thinking about the power stance, it does look like he’s standing to pee. 

Roz: Oh, yeah. He’s peeing. 

Em: It looks like his hands are in front of him. 

Christine: I do see the standing to pee thing. Yeah. 

Roz: Yeah, I see that. 

Christine: I think the mustache is eluding me though. 

Em: I, I feel like the face is him– 

Roz: I’m not seeing the hu– the handlebar. 

Em: Really? Aw, I– 

Christine: I think I gotta like– 

Em: I think– Again, I can’t tell if I’m tricking myself. 

Christine: I think I gotta look at it later and just– It’ll like, like you said with the girl– little girl running across, it’ll just like scare the shit out of me, you know. 

Em: Eugh! 

Roz: [dramatic voice] “And then I saw it.” 

Christine: Maybe I’ll– And then I saw– [chuckles] 

Roz: “And then I saw him.” 

Christine: Maybe I’ll print it out. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: No, that’s a bad idea. Why would I do that? 

Em: I guarantee you though, Maddy, I bet your dad for sure thinks that’s abs– 

Roz: [laughs] 

Em: There’s no questions asked; that’s a ghost. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Your dad is not having it with this Fisher guy. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors] 

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Story 6 – Paranormal Question 

Christine: So, this is from Lizzy. It says, “Hi–” Oh, it’s a question. Okay. We’ve got a question for our expert, Roz, here. 

Roz: [chuckles] Okay. 

Christine: “Hi And That’s–” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Roz, you’re very, very confident and equipped– 

Roz: I don’t call myself a expert, but– 

Christine: –to, uh, to answer this. “Hi, And That’s Why We Drink fam. I was introduced to your podcast from my sister in 2020 and have been a loyal listener since. We even got tickets to your show in Dallas. It was amazing–“ 

[soft sound of something falling over in Em’s room] 

Christine: [spooky tone of voice] Ooh! A ghost! [normal voice] What was that? 

Em: That, that was me knocking over unnecessary things. Sorry. 

Christine: Oh, I thought it was a ghost. “It was amazing. Anyway, my name is Lizzy. I am from– Weslaco [pronounced “wes-lake-o”], Texas?” I don’t know if I’m saying that right. I have a question– 

Roz: Weslaco [pronounced “wuh-las-co”]. 

Christine: Is that right? 

Roz: W-Weslaco [pronounced “wes-lah-co”]. 

Christine: Weslaco [pronounced “weh-slack-o”]? [laughs] 

Roz: Weslaco [pronounced “wes-lack-o”]. 

Christine: Ah, Weslaco [pronounced “wes-lah-co”], Texas. “I have a question about the paranormal that I’ve been thinking about, and I feel like this is the perfect time to write you all. Since from what it seems like the beginning of time, all paranormal has fought with ‘God.’ Every Exorcist movie, a priest is called, and somehow most of the time, they’re able to get the entity away. Or in paranormal situations, the cross and prayer is used. Does that prove God is real? Or a higher power? Maybe that seems a little deep, but I always thought if this was used, doesn’t it prove of its existence? I’m not super religious, but this question and situation has always puzzled me. You definitely will not offend me with a yes or no. [chuckles] I just thought I’d like to get your thoughts. Also, shout-out Eva for getting through this email.” Uh, and then a sweet photo of Winnie, the dog as well. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. A photo of a small tan dog laying on a couch fades into view. The dog looks like a Yorkshire Terrier. A dark brown blanket is draped across her back, and she is lying on a round bright pink pillow with her small furry Grinchy front paws in front of her, like in a sphinx pose. Her fluffy tan fur is neatly trimmed around her dark eyes, dark nose, and muzzle.] 

Christine: Um, I have thought about this all my life too ’cause being Catholic– 

Roz: I have, I have– 

Christine: Yeah. 

[The video fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Roz: I have an understanding of this that works for me. Now– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Please. 

Roz: –of course, all of this stuff is called the unknown for a reason. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: We don’t know the answers. But I– It would seem with these evil, you know, whatever kind of energy that is malicious, it would seem that what really works for them to get them away is you being strong in what you believe– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: –and, and using that to get rid of them. 

Christine: It’s like that intention of like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: Yes, and– 

Christine: –setting boundaries. 

Roz: So if people believe in Jesus, then Jesus will get that thing away. But also if you are, you know, more into the, the– 

Christine: Like a Wiccan side of things or something– 

Roz: Sure. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Roz: Any of that kind of stuff. I think, um, I think that it’s about that conviction. 

Christine: Like similar– Yeah, I agree. I feel like that’s, that’s the same understanding I have where it’s not necessarily because it’s like a crucifix on the thing, but like probably just the intention of like only good here, clear out– 

Em: Mm-hmm. I agree. 

Christine: –whether you’re a with– witch or priest. 

Roz: But also I think there’s probably some people that died that, um, if you’re like, “J– In Jesus’s name, get out of–“ 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Roz: I– Like I’m sorry, but if that– if I was the ghost, I’d be like, “Okay, I don’t wanna be here. What the hell?” 

Christine: Yeah. Ew. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: “This is like really harshing my mellow, you know. Get–“ 

Roz: [laughs] 

Em: That’s, that’s a great point. It’s like maybe the, the ick is what had them leave instead versus the– [laughs] 

Roz: [laughs] 

Christine: They were like, “You brought a priest to my house? You fucking freak.” 

Em: They’re like, “Never mind.” 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: “I thought we were having fun here.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, no, I, I absolutely agree. And I think the reason why we associate– or why we conflate the paranormal with Christianity so often is because just a lot of people happen to be openly Christian. 

Christine: [laughs] ’Cause Christianity hates it. 

Roz: Well– 

Em: Like I think it’s just like a big demographic, and so it just kind of pops up that way. But I also– Now, I, I don’t know if you know this, Roz, but my stepmom, um, is Wiccan. She’s a second-generation witch, and, uh, anytime, I had anything spooky going on in my life, she was always obviously the first person. I thought a witch would believe me before anyone else. Uh, and so I grew up kind of always believing in– or at least seeing that whatever she was doing was working to keep me safe. And so um– 

Roz: Totally. 

Em: –and in that way, I– She also very much promoted like just manifesting and, uh, just kind of clo– trying to close herself off from that stuff. So I think you’re totally right. I think it’s just whatever you believe is what works. 

Christine: It's energy. 

Em: Yeah, it’s just committing to it. 

Roz: Well, and I think, I think that like this ghost stuff in, in pop culture is– So much of it has been formed in, in modern day by Ed and Lorraine Warren. 

Christine: Mm, true point, true point. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: And they were Catholic. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: And everything was very Catholic with the way that they approached it. 

Christine: Demons and– 

Roz: It’s good versus evil, and demons– 

Christine: Right. 

Roz: –and Jesus and– 

Em: Great point. 

Roz: –all of that. So I think that that has really– Because for the longest time, they were kind of the only authorities that were going on TV– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: –and explaining to everyone, “This is how you get rid of a demon, and this is what a demon is,” and all of that stuff. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: So I think that that combined with movies and all of that, it– 

Christine: And like Satanic Panic in the ‘80s/‘90s– 

Roz: Which we are in again. 

Christine: –and everyone was like, “It’s the devil!” 

Roz: We are in another version. 

Christine: It’s wild. It’s wild. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: That’s a great point. Um, we’ve never an– 

Christine: So insightful, Roz. 

Em: That was the first time I think we were ever asked a question and got to answer it. So thanks for– 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. 

Em: –being a part of that. 

Roz: Wait, there’s a picture of a dog. 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, yeah, there’s a Winnie, the dog, too. She’s a cutie pie. 

Em: Do we know the dog’s name? 

Roz: And there's no ghost in this dog picture, right? 

Christine: [higher voice] Winnie. Hi, Winnie– There’s no ghost in this dog. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Roz: Okay, just a cute dog. 

Em: Maybe the dog is the ghost. 

Christine: Aw. 

Roz: She’s so cute. I love the little hands. 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: I love little Grinchy toes. 

Story 7 – SPOOKY FOOTAGE (photo) 

Em: Uh, we have one left, I think. Roz, if you would like to close it out. 

Roz: Oh, I would love to read this. Okay, this is from Rachel who writes, “Spooky footage (photo).” 

Christine: Ooh! Oo-la-la, say less. 

Roz: Okay. “Hello, Eva, Em, Christine, Lemon, Gio, Hank, Junie, Moonie, and Roz.” 

Christine: And Roz. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah, [laughs] I was like, “Uh-oh.” 

Roz: I added that one. Okay. Uh, “I wanted to share my spooky ghost photo. This is an innocent photo of my dog, Avery, from–“ 

Christine: I like how– As opposed to like a non-innocent photo. [laughs] 

Roz: [laughs] Yeah. What was [unintelligible]? 

Christine: This is an innocent photo of her. 

Em: Guilty picture. 

Christine: She’s not guilty in this one. 

Roz: “This is an innocent photo of my dog, Avery, from– uh, that my fiancé sent me. If you look closely at my dog’s eyes, you can see that my fiancé is eye level, crouching at the side of the bed to take the picture.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: “You can see the outline of the phone and everything. You can also see the figure of the large man behind him–“ 

Christine: [screams quietly, mouth closed and high-pitched] 

Roz: “–who was definitely not there. Avery was looking right at him.” 

Em: Ah! Avery, poor guy. [chuckles] Poor Avery. 

Christine: S– [unintelligible] 

Roz: “We don’t live in the house anymore, but when we did, Avery would sit in that room in the dark and stare at the corner.” 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: Yucko. 

Roz: “I hope you see this. I love your podcast so much and enjoyed meeting Em, Christine, and Eva–“ 

Christine: [chuckles] Sorry, Roz. 

Roz: “–in San Diego at the book signing this past December.” And I also su-subscribe to Roz’s podcasts, and I– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. And it’s– They’re so good and our favorites, etc. 

Em: We should pay you to be our PR team at this point. 

Christine: Yeah, you’re good at it. 

Roz: I’ll do anything for money. Okay. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: Um, w– so let’s see. 

Christine: Okay, let’s look. 

Roz: So this is gonna be a dog eyeball photo? Okay. 

Christine: I love that we get to zoom into the dog’s eyeballs. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Look at that puppy. 

[Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade to black. A photo of a small tan Chihuahua fades onto the screen. The photo is taken close up as the dog rests on their side on a bed. They have brown eyes, a dark nose with a pink tip, and a bottom tooth that sticks past their lip when their mouth is closed. Their ears are tucked back flat against their head as they stare at something to the right of the person taking the photo. Their eyes are wide and large, showing the whites of their eyes.] 

Roz: Oh, yeah. There– There’s a– 

Christine: Oh, that’s horrific. 

Em: That’s a whole-ass man. 

Roz: –dark-sided– 

Christine: Hey, that’s bad. 

Roz: –demon man. 

[A zoomed-in photo focusing on the dog’s face fades in. In the dog’s brown eye, the reflection of what they’re looking at and the room is visible. A phone is seen in front of the dog to take the picture. Behind him, a large dark figure stands behind the person taking the photo. From this perspective, the ceiling is also visible in the reflection, making the figure look very tall and imposing in the space as he appears to loom over the person taking the photo.] 

Christine: Ew. He’s like walking past– It looks like he’s not even looking at the dog, just like walking past. 

Em: Well, I– Feels like– I– I’m guessing for him this is just like– 

[The photo slowly fades to an even closer zoomed-in version, showing just the dog’s face, so the reflection in his eye is even clearer now.] 

Christine: His– 

Em: –he’s constantly there. So it’s not even a, a moment where he has to look at the dog. He’s just walking by per usual. 

Christine: This poor dog. No wonder it’s so neurotic if it just sees that dude every day. 

[The photo fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Em: I mean, look at this dog’s face. He is– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: His face says, “What the fuck is that? Why is no one talking about it?” 

Roz: “What is that?” Yeah. Um, if you really zoom– 

Christine: Ew. 

Roz: Now, I’m just gonna throw out here when we’re talking about pronouns, it does appear that this being has boobs. So– 

Em: [laughs] Honestly– 

[The photo of the dog fades in again, but this time it is zoomed in to just their eye. This close, the reflection is even clearer, with a ceiling fan visible at the top of his eye as well. The dark figure appears as a black silhouette in the corner of the room. The front of the figure appears to have a small curve, but there are no clear discernible features.] 

Roz: Now, any– everyone has boobs unless they elect to not have them. 

Christine: That’s fair. 

Roz: But– So I do think that it’s possible this could be a lady. 

Christine: Oh, interesting plot twist. Okay, okay. You know what? Yeah, we shouldn’t assume, huh? 

Em: Could be just a person. No matter what? Horrifying. 

[The photo fades to black, and Christine, Roz, and Em’s videos fade back onto the screen.] 

Christine: Yeah, it could be a demon. Ed and Lorraine could be right. You know what I’m saying? Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: And I– I’m down with that as well. 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t love that this person’s just walking past though and the dog’s just like totally losing its shit, and the guy’s like, “Whatever.” I don’t know. 

Em: I– It does make me– I mean, we’ve talked about this a million times– 

Christine: Sweet Avery. 

Em: –and I’m sure any pet owner thinks it. But it’s like– I’m constantly like, “What is my dog seeing that I’m unaware of?” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And if my dog looked as panicked as Avery looks in this moment– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –I would think the dog is seeing a lot all the time. 

Roz: Okay. Now, this is gonna sound really fucked up. 

Em: Go for it. 

Roz: ’Cause th-that is a fear of “What is my dog looking at?” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Roz: My la– My dog that I have now was born with no eyes. So I don’t have that problem. 

Christine: [shocked, drawn out] What? 

Em: [chuckles] 

Roz: Well, I, I do not have that problem. 

Christine: Oh my lord. 

Roz: But, uh, he is– Why are you laughing, Em? Uh, he– [laughs] 

Em: I did not expect it. It– I just didn’t expect– I was like, “What’s happening here?” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: But, uh, you know what? His ears must be pretty in tune. Like you ever think– 

Christine: I was gonna say that. Ma– 

Roz: His ears are strong, and his smell– 

Christine: The nose. 

Roz: I heard that smell is the most important with dogs. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: But do you think they can smell ghosts? 

Christine: I mean, I guess sometimes we can. 

Roz: If they’re smelters. 

Christine: “If they’re smelters.” [laughs] 

Em: [chuckles] I, I guess I– ’Cause– 

Christine: [makes rimshot sound effect] “Ba-dum-tss!” 

Em: W– I– In my– When I think of ghosts, I either hear something or see something, and very rarely do I smell something. But I wonder if it’s different for animals. 

Roz: Yeah. I’m not sure. 

Christine: Good point. 

Roz: I mean, my dog– I just wonder if he would know if something was a ghost because he– 

Christine: Right. If he doesn’t– Right, right, right. 

Roz: I mean– 

Christine: Like I don’t even know if a dog who sees a ghost is like– They’re probably like, “Who’s that man in our house?”, you know? 

Roz: But he’s very like– Because he’s always been blind, he’s different than a dog that goes blind. He doesn’t bump into things. 

Christine: Oh, okay. He’s like born with it. Yeah. 

Em: Interesting. 

Roz: W– He knows– He like has, uh, such heightened senses that he knows where things are. 

Christine: Oh, wow. 

Roz: It’s actually kind of scary. Sometimes I’m like, “Are you faking it?” But he definitely does not have any eyes. 

Christine: “Are you–“ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Show me.” [laughs] 

Roz: Because he knows when he’s about to hit something. It like– 

Christine: Aww, bud. 

Em: Interesting. 

Roz: So I’m very curious. I don’t want to put him through that ’cause he has a lot of anxiety– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Poor baby. 

Roz: –because he doesn’t have eyes. But– 

Christine: I mean, I would, I think. 

Roz: Yeah. So I don’t want to take him to a haunted place, but– 

Christine: Sweetheart. What’s his name? 

Roz: His name’s Chucky. 

Christine: Chucky! 

Em: Oh! [unintelligible] 

Christine: Yeah. Don’t take him to a haunted– That’s probably cruel. Yeah. 

Roz: Yeah. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: But i– Does he– Do you ever see him reacting to things that aren’t there and– and there aren’t a sound you also heard? 

Christine: Or is there just no way to know? 

Em: Yeah. 

Roz: I mean, kind of. But like– Sometimes I’ll see him, and he, he goes like, you know, like this [Roz closes her eyes, swaying her head side to side in a figure eight shape], and I’m like, “What is he– What is it?” And then I’m like, “Oh, there’s a plane going over.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Aw! 

Christine: Aww… 

Roz: Yeah. He’s like– He, he hears everything. 

Christine: He’s like hearing it. Oh my gosh. 

Em: I was gonna say– After looking at this picture of Avery and like the, the person in, in the dog’s eyes, I was gonna say, “I really wish we had a palette cleanser,” but you really came through with, with that. 

Christine: I love it. 

Em: That's precious. 

Christine: Little airplane ears. [Christine moves her head side to side, mimicking Roz’s imitation of her dog]. 

Roz: That’s what I do. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Oh my god, Roz. 

Roz: Absolutely. 

Em: Oh my gosh. 

Christine: Thank you for going through all of this with us and for bringing your, your undeniable expertise to the table. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: We appreciate you so much. 

Roz: Is this it? This is over? 

Christine: I guess. I mean, listen, I’m not kicking you out, but, um, Eva only gave us 14 files or something to look at, and we looked at all of them. [laughs] But– 

Em: [laughs] 

Roz: Well, I really have to tell everybody about something. 

Christine: Well, I was gonna say we– This is your time to shine. Please tell us everything. 

Roz: So I’m hosting this new podcast– 

Christine: Mm. 

Roz: –with, uh, Paramount. 

Christine: Yeah? Ooh! 

Em: Very cool. 

Christine: No big deal. 

Roz: Paramount Scares to be specific. 

Christine: Nice. 

Roz: Um, it’s a horror movie podcast. 

Em: Love it. 

Roz: And um, but it’s a game show. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Roz: And so it’s kind of like a funny game show. The two of you would be great on it if ever you want to come on. Um– 

Christine: I’m a sucker for a game show. 

Roz: And uh, each episode we have three different guests, and it’s different genres of um, of horror movies per different episodes, you know. Like we did a Stephen King episode– 

Christine: Oh, fun. 

Roz: –a vampire episode, whatever. 

Em: So cool. 

Roz: And, and it’s trivia, but it’s also really silly and trying to make people, uh, come up with co– improvise on the spot– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: –and just be silly and have fun. And then there’s points and whatever. It’s fun. It’s fun. It’s fun. It’s called Tickled to Death. 

Christine: Ahh! 

Em: Love it! 

Roz: Uh, so you can find that wherever you get podcasts. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Roz: And then of course, Ghosted! by Roz Hernandez is my other podcast I do all year. 

Christine: That’s, that’s fun. We were–We got to have the honor of being on that once. 

Roz: Yes! 

Christine: And I remember you had little game– the game. I still talk about it where you had like an EVP and uh– 

Roz: “EVPs or EV-Please?” 

Christine: “EVPs or EV-Please.” 

Roz: Yeah. 

Christine: I tell people about that all the time. [laughs] It’s my favorite. 

Roz: Yeah, we do that. We look at, um, haunted eBay dolls. Um– 

Christine: Oh! Classic. 

Roz: You know, we do silly stuff like that on that podcast too. And then I’m trying so hard to become a YouTube star. Um– 

Christine: Oh, that’s hard. 

Roz: A YouTube ghost huntress. And so my– 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Roz: That YouTube channel is “Roz Hernandez the Haunted Doll,” which is um– 

Christine: I’m– Please. I’m going there right now. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I love this. 

Roz: And that one– I, I go to haunted hotels, and I, um, find a local guy on Grindr, and we go ghost hunting together. 

Christine: [laughs] That’s genius. 

Em: That’s actually brilliant. 

Christine: That’s so smart. 

Roz: Thank you. 

Em: Brilliant. 

Christine: God, you are, you are a, uh– What do you– Forget Ed and Lorraine. You’re like the new– Step aside, Ed and Lorraine. 

Roz: Yeah, thank you. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: We’ve got a new form of ghost hunting in town. 

Roz: Well, yeah. I don’t think they were doing Grindr. Uh, but I’m trying to, uh– you know, you gotta spice it up. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: That’s right. Come on. They’re old news. Um, wow. Well, I’m so excited. I’m– I just subscribed. Um– 

Roz: Aw, thank you. 

Christine: The, the thumbnails are hilarious. 

Roz: I, I don’t know how to get famous on YouTube, but I’m trying damn hard. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: It’s pr– I mean, I certainly don’t know, but I, I will subscribe to, um, to watch these. Oh, you have a lot of followers. Um, no, this looks so fun. I’m gonna watch this, uh– Oh my god, “The Ghost Liked My Grindr Guy, Episode 3.” Alright. So if anyone needs something to do, uh, this evening or anytime, please, um, go check that out too. And, uh– You have so much fun content. 

Roz: Yeah, I have a lot of spooky stuff for people right now. 

Christine: Yeah. And a dog with no eyes. How could it get any better than this? 

Roz: [laughs] 

Christine: Um– [chuckles] 

Em: I know. [laughs] 

Christine: What a perfect guest. Happy Halloween, everyone. Uh, Em, any closing words? Any parting words? 

Em: No, I’m just, I’m just sad spooky season’s, uh, uh, coming to a close, but thanks for, for sneaking in there with us, Roz. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: Oh, spooky season for all the, you know, the– 

Christine: For the normies. 

Roz: –the amateurs that come and go. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Roz: Um, but yeah, no, it’s spooky all year. 

Christine: We keep it going. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Very cool. 

Roz: Thank you so much for having me. 

Christine: Oh, what a, what a blast. Thank you, Roz.

---