E410 The Loose Moose Trio and and Mr. I Need a Ride

TOPICS: THE ADOBE DELI/THE LEWIS FLATS SCHOOL, MIKE BARAJAS

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It’s Episode 410 and we just want to be hot potatoes in a prime nap zone. Today Em brings us the wild hauntings of an elementary school turned steakhouse saloon, the Adobe Deli, formerly the Lewis Flats School in New Mexico. Then Christine brings us the case of Mike Barajas, where the murderer will do anything to get from A to B. And don’t forget the three R’s, Respect, Rat Catching, and Rattlesnake Wrangling …and that’s why we drink!

Photos:
The Adobe Deli
Mike Barajas

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Transcript

[intro music]

Christine: [singing] ♪ On the road again ♪♪ [speaking] Just kidding. We’re home. Hi, everybody. We’re back from our first– 

Em: Half. 

Christine: –the f– seventh tour. [laughs] I was gonna say first. Like remember the time I said, “It’s episode one,” and you said, “No, it’s not.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] It was– That was a beautiful mistake you made. Yeah, no, we’re finally back from, um, our first half of the Pour Decisions Tour. 

Christine: [sighs] Whoa. 

Em: And as we’re saying this, yesterday or two days ago, we released our second half. So, uh, we’re going back out again, which I– 

Christine: [laughs] Everyone was like, “Do you have time to rest?” I was like, “Wait ’til Monday. There’s an Instagram post coming.” 

Em: Well, I, I love when we are going back on the road with a tour we already feel comfortable with. That’s fine. 

Christine: That’s true. It does make it a lot easier. 

Em: If it were, if it were a whole new tour where we had to do all new footage, we had to write a whole new show, and we had to co– That would’ve been obviously way too much, but the– To– It’s a script that we pretty much have memorized at this point. 

Christine: It’s a lot less scary, yes. 

Em: Yeah, I’m totally happy to just not– The, the thing– The tour is lovely. It’s just the travel that’s, that’s a lot, and so since we won’t be traveling, I’m, I’m happy to take the break. For– It’s a good enough break for me. 

Christine: Yes, and, uh, we’ve had the best time. We also added a bunch of– Through this last tour had a bunch of, um, book signings, so that was cool too ’cause we got kind of like the meet and greet aspect. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, and we got to stay like an extra day in a lot of cities because of that, so that was cool. Um, but, yes, we are back on the road, [laughs] so go buy tickets. I’m actually– This’ll be a fun one ’cause I feel like we have some really random spots in there this year. 

Em: Yeah, we– The, the last few years, er– LikeI feel like we went to more like the mainstream spots– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –which is what I was kind of expecting to happen this time around too, but our manager and our, uh, and our tour manager, our booking manager, they, they swear by these spots, that we should give them a shot. So I’m– We’re going. 

Christine: Yeah, so if you want tickets, go to andthatswhywedrink.com/live. Um, we are very excited about it. We also have a lot of like, uh, merch up on that– I w– I was just saying, I always forget to bring up merch on the– I don’t know why I’m making this like a promo intro, but– 

Em: That’s okay. 

Christine: I don’t know. I feel like there’s important stuff we never talk about, so here’s me attempting to say them. So, anyway, go look at us on the internet. 

Em: Okay. I’ll look at myself as well, um, on the internet. 

Christine: Good idea. Good idea. 

Em: I do at least once a few. Just a quick “googs.” 

Christine: You do? I do not. Uh, I, I google you, not myself though. Um, I– Real quick before we ask each other why we drink, which is the usual standard fare for the show, I wanted to point out also that because we’re on Patreon and we do these like Yappy Hours after the episode, um, this time I brought some conversation cards for us. 

Em: Aw! I love that. 

Christine: Yeah, they’re for relationships. And, um, I did actually buy them for, for Blaise for, um, Valentine’s Day, and then, uh, we both got COVID. So, um. 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: It’s– They’re unopened. [laughs] So we can give them a test. 

Em: I got conversatio– I got conversation starters– or maybe Allison got them for us. We got them at some point years ago, and then they just kinda sat on our like coffee table. We never touched them. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: But every now and then like before we’d go to bed, it’s like, “Oh, let’s pull a card.” And then half– We’ve been together for so long that I feel like half the questions we already knew the answers to, so I would be excited to learn more about you and me. 

Christine: I’m intrigued. I don’t know what’s in these ones yet, ’cause Blaise and I have never opened them ’cause we were like, “Well, Valentine’s over. We’re too busy.” 

Em: Mm! Well, I’m excited to maybe, um, grow in our relationship. Maybe– 

Christine: Me too! 

Em: Maybe we’ll kiss at the end! I will– 

Christine: Oh! That would be– 

Em: I will– 

Christine: Now listen, this is way– the way to get our Patreon up and fucking on fire. 

Em: If you join us at our top tier, you’ll get a video of me– 

Christine: [laughs] A virtual kiss. 

Em: –begging Christine for a kiss. Um. 

Christine: [laughs] No, actually they’re getting that right now, I think. 

Em: You know what? I actually– I have a question for you because this was, this was asked to me. 

Christine: Mm? 

Em: If we were like in a show– 

Christine: Uh-huh. We are. What do you mean? 

Em: –could you– No, like in a TV show or something if we got like booked as a special. And we had to kiss, could you do it? I don’t think I could kiss you. 

Christine: It depends on what the stakes are. If the s– 

Em: I really don’t think I– Actually, just thinking about it, I don’t think I can do it. I think it– 

Christine: I would probably have to be s– like obliterated. 

Em: [squeals] Can I gay squeal afterwards? [high-pitched squeal] I can’t eve– Just thinking about it, I can’t even do it. 

Christine: That would have to be part of the script. Like it would have to be that we’re so uncomfortable– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: –’cause it would be so obvious that it would have to be part of the story. 

Em: Okay, then I could do it. But it– 

Christine: Like otherwise we can’t pretend that well. We’re not that good of actors. 

Em: No more than a peck. Anything else is like– It’s too much. It has– 

Christine: Oh, certainly not more. No, a peck is, is the farthest I think I could get with anything. I mean– 

Em: I’m literally like covered in sweat all of a sudden. I don’t know why I even asked this. [squeals] 

Christine: Wow. I feel like I have hi– The, the Loose Moose sweatshirt you got me is real sticky all of a sudden. I’m sweaty and hot. 

Em: I– First of all, it’s lovely that you’re wearing that sweatshirt. I didn’t know if you had still had that one. 

Christine: Oh, of course. It’s my cozy Loose Moose. How could I not? 

Em: That’s, uh– Can I talk about the Loose Moose real quick? 

Christine: Obv– Always. 

Em: Okay, so, uh, there was– We were driving through New England at one point, and you were driving, I think, with Lisa, so it was just Eva and me. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Obviously, I follow all those websites with like the roadside attractions and things like that. 

Christine: And the TikToks. 

Em: And I’d always heard about this one restaurant on the s– like on the side of the highway in Connecticut, in like Union, Connecticut. I think it’s called– I don’t wanna mess it up. Hang on a sec. It was, it was a– it was basically a restaurant, but it’s, it’s like a– Hold on. [googling] Book restaurant. 

Christine: Oh, I got it. The Traveler– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Hold on, the Traveler Restaurant. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Quote, “the food and book people. Union, Connecticut.” I’m so dumb. It was on my sweatshirt the whole time. [laughs] 

Em: Thank you. Well, okay. So I’ve always heard about this place, and apparently it’s like a book-themed restaurant where it’s like half a library or something. Or when you go, you get like– You, you– It’s a, it’s a book restaurant. I’ve always heard about it. And we just happened– I didn’t think of us driving past it, anything like that. But all of a sudden, Eva and I are in the car, driving through Connecticut, and I see this massive sign that says like, “Traveler’s Restaurant coming up.” And I went, “Eva, turn in now.” I was like, “I don’t even care if we’re late to wherever we’re going. I know we have a show tonight. I don’t care. Turn in.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And we went in there. We ended up having like this really great lunch. The person who was our server or like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –somehow is involved in owning the restaurant like listens to our show and like was so like f– like g– 

Christine: Perplexed? [laughs] 

Em: –like fangirling when she saw me and Eva. And all downstairs there’s a whole library. The whole top, there’s books everywhere. And so I don’t know the story behind the Loose Moose specifically, I think there was like– If Eva were here, she’d be able to tell you, but there was a moose outside at some point, like a statue of a moose. 

Christine: Yeah, they said it was like the biggest moose in– or, I don’t know. It was something about a moose, and they said, oh, over time like it got famous. 

Em: Yeah, it became known as like the Loose Moose that was like in their, in their front yard. 

Christine: The Loose Moose. 

Em: And so they ended up making merch for the Loose Moose in the Traveling Restaurant. I’m totally butchering the story, but, uh, the, the whole point of what I wanted to say was that I was so excited that I stumbled upon something I’d been like waiting to find. I felt like a pirate finding treasure that I’ve been looking for. It was wonderful. 

Christine: And now I get to wear the treasure. 

Em: And– Yes, so then we got Christine a sweatshirt. Eva has the red one. I have the green one. And we’re like Alvin and the Chipmunks. Huey, Dewey, and Louie. 

Christine: Aww. Except I just wasn’t there. 

Em: Yeah, but in spirit you were. 

Christine: Yeah, al-always. Always. Why do you drink this week, Em? 

Em: Girl. I drink because I’m so out-of-control sick. I think, um, it’s because I’ve been doing that thing where I like have not l– I mean, we’ve talked about this so many times, but I think part of my burnout is like physically letting my body just deteriorate, you know what I mean. Um, and I’ve just been “go, go, go” for so long, and not even in like a– like not just tour. I know people are gonna be like, “Oh, it’s because of tour.” Behind the scenes I’ve got things going on lately, and, uh, everyone is fine currently. But everyone was not fine for a second, and I was dealing with that. And just– it’s just been a lot of stuff, so, um, I think I’ve just not let myself rest like, uh, mentally. ’Cause even if I like was home relaxing or if I was like– If it looked like on the outside I was just sitting on the couch and like resting, I would– my mind was just in a million places. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, and so now that everything’s kind of over with, the moment I got home, uh, for the holidays, my body just started breaking down. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: I just had like a really bad runny nose for a second. And I haven't had a cold in like two and a half years. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: And so I think this is like two and a half years worth of like my immune system like breaking down. I don’t know. I just– I’m really going through it over here, so I brought several boxes of tissues. So sorry to our editor, Jack, for the amount of times you’re gonna have to cut today. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um, and I also– Literally, this is so sick. I don’t even wanna tell you that one. I literally have a spittoon because I just have so much coming out of my head. 

Christine: That’s so hot. 

Em: Let’s kiss. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Ah, yeah. I changed my mind by the way. My contract has got to be edited. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I need triple what they were paying me before. 

Em: I’m, I’m literally just like– I’m– Thank god, I’m on the other ha– like side of it now. Like Christine and I were supposed to record yesterday. Um, the day before that, I was like in such a brain fog I couldn’t even do notes if I tried. So I’m, I’m better. I’m getting better. Tomorrow I think I’ll be totally good. But I’m racing the clock because in like two days, my friend from home, Deirdre, gets married. And so– 

Christine: Oh yeah. No big deal. 

Em: –I’m like desperately trying to– 

Christine: Deirdre from like episode six. She was like one of our first ever characters on this show, and now she’s getting married, which is so crazy. 

Em: [laughs] I know. And I– I’ll s– I’m in the middle of writing like a, a best person speech and all this. 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: And so I’m just– I’m trying to make sure my head is clear enough that I don’t fuck this up. 

Christine: You’ve written so many best person speeches just for yourself that I feel like you should– this should be easy for you. 

Em: I know. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Well, this one is easy. I’ll– Maybe we’ll talk about it in, um, in our– 

Christine: During our conversation starters? 

Em: During our– yes, during that. But I– Luckily, um, it’s– I’ve got a, a good direction on that speech, but I, I just want to make sure it’s good because– 

Christine: Oh my god, you could practice your speech in the Patreon Yappy Hour. We could all give, give you little applause. 

Em: I– Thank you, yes. 

Christine: I was gonna say feedback, but we don’t do that. We just give claps. 

Em: Just criticism. We listen, and we judge. 

Christine: No, only positive. Only good vibes. 

Em: Well, um, so this– the bad part is that I’m desperately sick, and also my– I came home early because my mom needed some help, um, healthwise. She’s okay now, but, uh, for a second, we, we didn’t know, so I came home early. And now like the best thing I can do for her health is like stay the fuck away from her. So it’s been like its own mindfuck. 

Christine: [laughs] You with your spittoon. 

Em: Me and my spittoon. I’m like, [hoarsely] “Can I help you, Mom?” And she’s like, “Get away from me.” 

Christine: Yeah. [hoarsely] “I’m here to help.” [laughs] 

Em: Um, but, uh, the good reason why I drink is I’m back on the East Coast, which means it’s raining outside. 

Christine: Oh yeah. Honestly, your window looks like a transplant of my window right now ’cause we’re in the same hemisphere. Well, that’s not right math or right geometry or– you know what I mean. It’s fine. We’re in the same space sort of mentally and physically. 

Em: Uh– Certainly. Um, anyway, so I, I got to wake up to like it being dreary outside. Oh, I miss dreary! It really– Actually, I think this is 50% of why I feel so much better. 

Christine: I think you feel better. You look better. 

Em: Yeah. Well I– ’Cause I woke up, and I was like, “Oh my god. It’s snuggle season. Let’s get into it.” 

Christine: Do you know how much I realize I love this? Which I didn’t know ’cause I, I do get seasonal affective disorder. But I was like laying in bed this morning, and I changed my sheets– By the way, big hot tip, folks. Flannel bedding is a game-changer. Although, if you have, uh– 

Em: The sweats. 

Christine: Well, the sweats, but also shedding animals, it like collects hair. 

Em: Oh no. 

Christine: So every morning, Blaise walks in with a little handheld vacuum and vacuums the comforter. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Um, no, so I put a quilt on top, so that, that has kinda fixed it. But, I tell you what. I took a shower this morning, climbed back into my flannel bed, and then all three of my furry boys like just went around me ’cause it’s cold. I tell myself it’s ’cause they love me, but really it’s ’cause it’s cold out. 

[bang as Em’s light falls over] 

Christine: And I was like, “This is the prime nap situation. I’m in a prime nap zone.” 

Em: I feel like, um– Sorry, my light fell. Um, I’ve never actually thought about the fact that if you have fur like the flannel is a probl– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: It never even occurred to me. Sorry, I’m trying to figure this ou– There you go. Um, [laughs] but, but now that you say it, that plus the fact that I have a sweating problem, I feel like my– 

Christine: Oh! It’s not for you, my friend. 

Em: I feel like the flannel would just– I would just wake up in like a Bigfoot suit. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, to clarify, Blaise has a separate blanket that’s for like hot sleepers. 

Em: That makes sense. 

Christine: And I’m just like, “Let me just bundle into my–“ Blaise used to call me “HP,” which stood for “Hot Potato.” 

Em: Aww. 

Christine: ’Cause I would literally wrap myself in like [laughs] heated blankets and just like lay there. [laughs] 

Em: That’s precious. 

Christine: Um, and I was like, “I wanna be a hot potato.” And he was like, “Okay, fucking weirdo.” Um. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So anyway, HP. Yeah, so I, uh, I still, I still like to be all snuggly. But anyway, I feel you with your kind of dreary vibe. 

Em: Mm. Yeah, no, there’s nothing I love more than a reason to not be productive. 

Christine: Yeah. I get it. 

Em: And the, the rainy weather really does that to me. So. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Anyway, that’s the good reason I drink, bad reason I drink. Also like one of my sinuses feels a little clogged, which I don’t love, but it’s because I’ve been blowing my nose so insanely hard. But like– 

Christine: [laughs] I love this like check-in like, “Okay, let me check. Left sinus, all right.” 

Em: Well, no like this whole part right here feels really sore, and I’ve, I’ve terrorized myself into thinking that there’s like a, like a s– like a snot clot or something stuck in my face and it won’t come out. 

Christine: I mean, I could easily get that out for you with a little massage, but it’s fine. 

Em: I wish you were here to rub my face. 

Christine: I would. I just actually learned a f– a lymphatic drainage massage for my face– 

Em: Help me. Help. 

Christine: –because I also have so many sinus problems. [laughs] 

Em: Uh, anyway, those are all my reasons. Why do you drink, Christine? 

Christine: Oh, Em. There are countless reasons. Let me count the ways. This morning right before we recorded, my father showed up at my doorstep again. 

Em: Oh my goodness. Here we go with this. 

Christine: With his annual calendars. I don’t know if you know about this, but he sends calendars out to everybody in the world. And I’m talking– He buys like 40, 60, 80 of them. I don’t know how many. Just dozens of these things. And they’re calendars with his photography on them. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: And he’s been making them since I was like eight or even younger maybe. And he likes– He’s like a photogra– He likes to take photos. Not a once have I ever been in this calendar. I just– It’s just his photos of like rocks and like moss and like graffiti. And then he makes like this, this calendar, and everybody gets it. And he puts everybody he knows birthday on it. Like I’m not kidding. Like when he was, uh, with this one person, his partner, he would put their kids’ birthdays on this thing. Like it– everybody’s birthdays goes on this thing. And the first year, he finally made like the comeback of the calendar and everything, I flipped up to June 4th. 

Em: You weren’t on there? 

Christine: I wasn’t on there. 

Em: That’s beautiful. That’s certainly a poetry. You should tell your therapist. 

Christine: My, my dead dog was on there, but I sure– 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: I sure wasn’t. 

Em: Oh! That– 

Christine: My dad’s partner’s child was on there a few days later, but I wasn’t. So anyway, that’s– And he said, “Well, I f– I didn’t put my own birthday on there either.” And I said, “Okay, great. So now we’re both just the sacrifices of your calendar. Like you and I don’t get our birthdays.” So anyway, now he does put my birthday on it, um, and he makes a point to show me every year, which was not the intended outcome of my many complaints. Um– 

Em: Yeah, if anything you just drew attention to it, and now you have to hear more about it. 

Christine: I really did. And as most people know, especially if you listen to Beach Too Sandy where we did an episode called “Reviews of Bernie’s Mail,” hi– my mailing address– his mailing address is my house. And so all his Vistaprint calendars got delivered to my house, these huge boxes. Anyway, he came by this morning and just decided to just– He’s like, “I’m going, going to the airport now. Anyway, here’s some big news about many people in the world and your life.” And then he started to cry, and then he left. And I went, “Okay. I have to go record with Em now.” So here I am. Um, I’m out of sorts a little bit. I’m with you – my face hurts. My sinuses are swollen. Um, my body aches. I’m tired and sweaty, and my flannel has cat hair on it. And also, fun fact, Leona met Scuba Santa yesterday. And this is the biggest news I have to bring to you. Um, she went to the aquarium and met Scuba Santa. And when Scuba Santa– 

Em: Was she just out of her mind excited? 

Christine: She– 

Em: Did she not care? 

Christine: –was not. She did care. She cared, but she was very– 

Em: Hesitant. 

Christine: –contai– Very con– No, not, not hesitant at all. Just very like s– “What of it?” You know? 

Em: Very Renate? 

Christine: Very Renate about it. And she showed up and went and met Scuba Santa. And apparently, when they were bringing her up, you know, the staff, they said, “What do you want for Christmas?” She said, “I don’t know.” And they asked, “Well, what do you want to ask for S– ask Santa? Do you want to ask him for a doll?” And she said, “No.” And they said, “What about a Monster Truck?” And she said, “I want a Monster Truck.” 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: And now all she talks about is how she asked Scuba Santa for a Monster Truck. So– 

Em: Funcle Em is on the case! Don’t even worry about it. 

Christine: No, I alr– Don’t even start with me. I shouldn’t have even told you this ’cause I had to frickin’– ’Cause there’s a certain one that’s special and– Oh gosh. Anyway, I had to be very, um, strategic about this in how to, how to ship it to my house without– Anyway, so I’m in that boat now which is very fun. Um, and of course we got a bunch of– Uh, we can post a bunch of photos of Leona and Scuba Santa, which– Because Blaise paid for these stupid photos, and you know it was probably like outrageously expensive for a shitty plastic frame, um, I would request that we post it on Instagram so at least we have some value for our m-monetary spend. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Um, anyway, other than that, you know, the world’s– everything is falling apart. But we’re here, and, um, people are listening, and I’m really happy about that. And oh, side note. Sorry, now I’m feeling a little manic, but that’s fine. Um, I tell– 

Em: I love manic Christine. 

Christine: I tell my– 

Em: Let me blow my nose really quick. Hold on, keep the ma– keep the mania though. Hey, look alive. 

Christine: Oh okay, I’ll keep the, keep the energy alive. Look alive. So I also, uh, wanted to add that– What was I gonna say that was so manic? Now I do– Now I don’t remember. 

Em: I distracted you with my ways. 

Christine: I know. With your wily ways. 

Em: Um, well, since I distra– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: Okay, keep going. 

Christine: Apparently, there’s been– So we are in, uh, with a new network that we really love called QCODE, and they’re just very like kind and hands-on and have helped us a lot. But there have been a shift in ads, and I know some people have complained. I want to be like very clear though that– because it’s, it’s– It doesn’t probably seem like it when you listen to it, um, but we are doing the same amount of ads as before. They’re just spread out differently because I guess they have a, a system where they are able to figure out like the least a– and I know a lot of you are going to disagree right now – but the least annoying way to play ads. Because sometimes, you know, in podcasts, they’re like bunched up like back to back to back to back. And yeah, you can like skip through like several minutes, but we’re trying to spread them out a little more just to test it out to see if like, oh, maybe like 60 seconds is like a more suitable break than like several 5 minutes you know? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like a chunk of them. So anyway, we’re testing things out, but don’t worry. Like we didn’t add more ads than before. Um, they’re just spread out, so they just have a different feel to them. Um, and Em and I are doing them together now, so it feels like more fun. And they’re probably a little longer ’cause it’s the two of us talking. 

Em: Yeah, sorry. [laughs] 

Christine: Um. No, no, no. But I feel like they’re more engaging and entertaining hopefully, um, because of that. So just a heads up, and we are just, you know, doing that ’cause it’s the way we keep the podcast rolling. Um, but we didn’t really shift anything big over here. So don’t, don’t stress. 

Em: Yeah, thank you for the PSA, Christine. I– We– 

Christine: Just a heads up ’cause I do know that fe– that fear of listening to something you’ve listened to for so long and then being like, “Something’s different.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And I do know that fear very well. So don’t worry. I, I hear you, and I see you. 

Em: Um, what was I gonna say? I was gonna say one last thing. 

Christine: Oh, and my vape is broken. 

Em: Oh no! 

Christine: Oh my god! 

Em: Oh, woe is Christine! Oh. 

Christine: [groaning scream] How will I fill my sinuses with this horrible vapor if I don’t have a vape that works? 

Em: You know, one of the worst parts about this is that I love me a candle, and I just c– I, right now, just can’t light anything. I’ve, I’ve literally– I’ve been taking like three showers a day just to stand in the steam. 

Christine: To– Okay. Ther– Theraflu sells shower tablets. 

Em: Oh! Lovely. 

Christine: Or no, maybe it’s Alka-Seltzer. But one of them sells shower tablets, and they’re so nice. You put them on the floor of your shower, and it’s like menthol, eucalyptus, whatever. And it– Like the steam– 

Em: Oh, that’s beautiful. 

Christine: And it’s really nice. If you– Like Blaise and I used to just trade. 

Em: ’Cause I, I did– 

Christine: [laughs] We’d be like, [hoarsely] “Get in the shower. Here’s a Theraflu tablet.” And then we trade. They’re really nice, so if you need some like, you know, self-care. 

Em: I never had the Theraflu. I had like the, the, the normal like shower steamers, but I’ve never had like one for when you’re sick. That sounds lovely. 

Christine: I would try it. It’s really nice ’cause it does feel like you’re getting extra like breathing in. [laughs] 

Em: Something, yeah. Well, this is the first day where my ears are not clogged. My head is not foggy. Besides this one sinus thing– I’m actually like kind of scared about it. I have a friend who just had like a sinus surgery, so now I’m like in my head that I need sinus surgery. Uh– 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: Other than this one thing and my– and a dry cough, I’m like back to normal. Like you– Christine– 

Christine: Well, as a sinus ex– Yeah? 

Em: I was gonna say– I was gonna say, no– Christine heard me on the phone the other day, and it– I sounded like a grovelly Pokémon. 

Christine: I said, “Who is this? Stop calling this number. How did you get this number?” 

Em: [laughs] I really– 

Christine: And Em said, [stuffed up nasal, hoarse voice] “It’s me. Chocolate.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I said, “Oh shit. Things have gone wrong.” And then that– 

Em: That was exactly– 

[silence as Em blows noise while muted] 

Christine: And then that, that sound is what came out of Em after that. That hacking noise. 

Em: Yeah, no. Just hacking at– Poor– I couldn’t get a word in b– without hacking. It was disgusting. 

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Christine: I mean, as somebody with a toddler, I– literally doesn’t phase me in the slightest. But yeah, I do get the, the self-conscious feeling, but I– I’m just glad you’re feeling better. 

Em: Thank you. 

Christine: And I am an expert at sinus massage ’cause I have chronic sinusitis. Fun fact. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: And they swell up, and they hurt like a bitch. And I can do a nice little lympat– 

Em: Yeah, like right under my eye. 

Christine: So I’ll send you the pressure points. There’s pressure points that clear, that drain your sinuses by just gently pushing them. 

Em: Okay, thank you. 

Christine: Two are– I can do them now, here. Two here where the, uh– where your brow bone meets. There’s like a like little notch in between. 

Em: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. 

Christine: Do you feel a bone notch there if you move your fingers around? 

Em: Yeah, and now I’ll never un-feel it, thank you. 

Christine: Yep, you’re welcome. Now pre– if you press that, that’s a pressure point. Um, then you can go along your eyebrows, your temples, and then underneath your sinuses, so like here, um, in the kind of hollows of your cheeks– 

Em: Hollows… 

Christine: –like underneath. Do you feel how there’s kind of like a little like tunnel up there? 

Em: Uh-huh. 

Christine: That’s your– So yeah, you can kind of like massage and pressure it. And then, um, over time hopefully it– I’ll send you the full thing, but it’ll drain your sinuses. It’s really nice. 

Em: Thank you. Um, what do you– 

Christine: We’re so old! [laughs] 

Em: What do you, what do you drink, Christine? I drink a lot of water. 

Christine: Well, this is the first time I’m sitting down since, uh, I got home from tour. So this is what I discovered next to my spot: an empty wine bottle [laughs]– 

Em: Girl. 

Christine: – and an empty BodyArmor. So it– 

Em: Mazel. 

Christine: And guess what? A broken fucking vape, so you know what? I’m having a day. It’s fine. I’m not drinking anything, but it’s okay. And you’re just drinking water? 

Em: I’m drinking bottles of water– 

Christine: Good for you. 

Em: –until I have to pee myself ’cause I just am trying to– I– Yesterday was the first day I got my taste back, and I had two smoothies. And they were delicious, so– 

Christine: Hell yeah. Flush it out. Fluids. 

Em: Anyway, uh, I’m ready– 

Christine: I should be a doctor. 

Em: Yeah, I know. 

Christine: “Here, press this spot between your eyes. That’ll fix it. Here, let me press it.” 

Em: And you know what? If you were here, I would just be forcing my head into your hands– 

Christine: I would literally– 

Em: –like I’m Gio wanting a pet. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I just– 

Christine: I was gonna say, “Wow, that sounds weirdly familiar.” Oh right, ’cause it happened five minutes ago to me. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, I do give him little puppy massages too. 

Em: Aw! Oh, I could go for a puppy right now. 

Christine: I could send you some reiki. 

Em: Oh, that’d be lovely. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Yeah, get me right– What is the reiki for right under this? Right here [pinches their right cheek near their nose]? 

Christine: Well, I know the pressure– the acupressure, but I can’t– 

Em: Great. Perfect. 

Christine: –can’t do it from here. 

Em: Can you reiki me a hug? That’d be nice. 

Christine: Absolutely. I’ll do it right now. 

Em: Thank you. Uh, yeah, I could really go for a puppy actually while we’re talking about it. 

Christine: A puppy? 

Em: That would do me a lot of healing. Oh! 

Christine: I’m just kinda eyeing Gio like how much p– How many stamps would that take? 

Em: I would pay it. Overnight, babe. That’s all. 

Christine: Okay, I’m in. It’s a deal. 

Em: Okay. One last nose blow before I tell you my story. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: The inaugural nose blow. 

Christine: [singing simple tune] ♪ One last nose blow before I go-go ♪♪ [switches to the tune of “Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go”] ♪ One last nose blow before I go-go / Time to tell you a story oh-oh ♪♪ 

Em: [laughs] [singing the Wishbone theme song] ♪ What’s the story, Wishbone? ♪♪ [speaking] Okay. 

Christine: What’s the– Aw! 

Em: That’s what it sounded like. Was that not what you were mimicking? 

Christine: [singing the Inspector Gadget theme song] ♪ Na-na-na-na-na Inspector Gadget! ♪♪ 

Em: Okay– 

Christine: No, I said, [sings to the tune of “Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go”] ♪ One last blow before I go-go ♪♪ [speaking] You have to know you know– You have to tell me you know what I’m trying to emulate. One last bl– 

Em: “Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go”? 

Christine: Yes, thank you. Phew. 

Em: Oh, okay. Um, everyone, uh, buckle up. Also appreciate your, your nasal cavity if it is unclogged because– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –man, I really took her for, for granted. 

Christine: Oh man. 

Em: Let’s take a big old breath through your nose, and, uh, enjoy the story. 

Christine: I feel like Em’s learning about all the sinus problems that we’ve all had for decades, and Em’s like, “Wait a minute.” 

Em: I don’t get sick a lot, but when I do, it’s a– 

Christine: Welcome to my fucking swollen face. 

Em: –it’s a real monster. 

Christine: Hold on. Let me throw a pretzel at Gio and find my blanket. God, we’re so un– This is– It’s like things change, ’cause we’re old and we get more aches and pains now. But like things also don’t change where I accidentally unplug my mic, throw a pretzel at Gio, and then drop my blanket and spill all the books off my shelf. 

Em: Yeah. It’s– 

Christine: Things are still the same. 

Em: It’s– A-At 32, to be sitting in the same room I sat in when I was 4, it’s like, “Oh, nothing’s changed.” And then also as I get out of the bed having that thought, I go [grunts]. 

Christine: [laughs] And then you– Yeah. Then you creak. You’re like, “Why am– What’s that creaking sound? Oh, it’s my body. Got it, okay.” 

Em: It’s my own back, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Well, when I was in Seattle recently, I, uh, bent down to grab something, and my aunt heard me go [grunts]. 

Christine: Ah, yeah. 

Em: And she was like, “If you’re old now, then like what does that make me?” 

Christine: No– My mom gets very concerned. She’s like, “I don’t like that do you that.” And I’m like, “Well, I’m sorry. I don’t know what to tell you.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And she’s like, “Please stop ’cause you’re– Like don’t act like you’re old and frail.” And I was like, “I am! I don’t know what to tell you.” 

Em: Yeah. It’s, uh, not good. Anyway, this is a story for you that, um,– I don’t know how– I should have thought this through, but we’re just gonna wing it. 

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Em’s Story – The Adobe Deli/The Lewis Flats School

Em: Um, this is called The Adobe Deli, which, um– It’s also called the Lewis Flats School. So, there’s two lo–

Christine: Oh, those feel like opposite things. 

Em: Yes, um, but– 

Christine: Like, “Where do you go to school?” “Oh, at the Deli.” What? 

Em: [sighs] Oh, the dream school. 

Christine: Where are you getting sand– “Where are you getting a sandwich?” “Oh, at school.” What? 

Em: I–Like if only they went hand in hand like that. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, today, it is the Adobe Deli, so– Uh, actually, let me look up the like the full name of it because I know it’s got a longer name than that. 

Christine: That’s a catchy name though: "The Adobe Deli.” 

Em: The Adobe Deli Restaurant. Okay, it’s the Adobe Deli. Great. Um, so this is in Deming, New Mexico. And it was originally the Lewis Flats Elementary School, which is why it’s called Lewis Flats School. 

Christine: I see. 

Em: Um, but it has turned into a steakhouse saloon, so– 

Christine: Ooh-la-la. 

Em: It only gets better. 

Christine: I always wished my elementary school would turn into a steakhouse saloon, but it just never ha– it never materialized. Maybe it’s ’cause we were in an old chapel. 

Em: I always wanted to leave my school to go to a steakhouse saloon, um– 

Christine: Wouldn’t that be nice. 

Em: I would have certainly paid more or less attention if I also had a steak in front of me. 

Christine: [laughs] “More or less.” You know what? That is a good pitch, Em, to the school board. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “It would either help or hinder our learning in education.” [laughs] 

Em: “There’s a 50% chance you would get exactly what you want or nothing like what you want.” 

Christine: I would argue it’s not quite 50-50. It’s probably more like 99 to 1. Um, but– 

Em: That’s a good point. 

Christine: But yeah. [laughs] It’s a chance. 

Em: Well, I will say we had a, we had a great cafeteria system, uh, or lunch system at my school where like we didn’t actually have a lunch period. We would– We had like basically like a little restaurant in our school. 

Christine: Wait, what? Like an actual deli? 

Em: O– Oh! Look at that. 

Christine: I don’t know. That’s what– It sounds like you’re explaining that. 

Em: I can’t believe I had the nerve to say I was jealous when I had it. 

Christine: Yeah, what the fuck? 

Em: Um, like the– 

Christine: You had a restaurant in your school? 

Em: I mean, like restaurant’s like a very lax– Like it– The, the, the faculty kitchen was open, and they would have a caterer come in. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: And it was– But it wasn’t like a fancy caterer. It was like a– They would bring in like pizza slices and stuff, so– 

Christine: Isn’t that like what normal schools do? 

Em: Well, so instead of having a lunch period, you would just order whatever you wanted, whenever you wanted, multiple times a day if you wanted, and you just brought it to class with you. Um– 

Christine: Oh! Wait, so you didn’t have a lunch period? 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: I feel like that’s illegal. [laughs] 

Em: No, they just– They– I think because I was at a college prep school, and they wanted to teach us like time management, they were like, “Okay, well like at college, you would have to pick your own time when you’re gonna eat.” 

Christine: Yeah, but at college, my professor was like, “Don’t bring pizza into my fucking classroom.” 

Em: Well– So there was a lot of times in school that I was eating while I was learning, so– 

Christine: Man, we were absolutely not. One time, I had a lollipop upstairs, and I had to vacuum the third floor for the rest of the afternoon in detention. 

Em: Oh, really? No, they had like a smoothie station and, and a pizza station. They had a sandwich station. I– 

Christine: Yeah, no. Certainly not. 

Em: So anyway, I can’t believe I had the nerve to be like, “I wonder how it would make me perform,” when I know how it made me perform. 

Christine: And it was very bad. 

Em: E-exactly B average. Um. 

Christine: Right? [laughs] It was pretty straight down the middle. 

Em: Yeah. 3.0. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, so anyway, this place was a school. Then it became a steakhouse and saloon. So in 1977, that’s when the school closed, and it went up for auction. And in 1978, it was opened up by this guy named Van Jacobson– which anyone named Van, I immediately think you’ve got a story. 

Christine: Well, it’s very weird that you say that because my dad literally came over to talk about his friend, Van, this morning. 

Em: See? 

Christine: I’m telling you. I had to get his calendar ready. I had to get Van, Van’s calendar ready. And I– He does– By the way, he sure does have a story, and I’ll tell you that another time ’cause it’s not my place to say here. But he’s a character. 

Em: I’ve never met a Van. Period. But also I’ve never– 

Christine: [laughs] Wow. I was like, “How is this gonna end? Oh.” 

Em: But I’ve never met a Van who, uh, didn’t have an interesting story. I feel like it’s– They’re only cool people. 

Christine: I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you about mine later, yeah. ’Cause I’ve known him since I was a kid. 

Em: Well, so, this is where I tell you a sidebar s– kind of like, um, uh, our, our first derailment of the story because when I say the school closed in 1977, there are a lot of sources that I read that would mention different parts of the school’s history– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –but the school was actually at like three to six different locations. Um, at one– 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: In one newspaper article, it said three locations. Um, a different source said like it was the sixth iteration of the school. So the school was like all over the place, so whenever, um– If you’re, if you’re looking up this location later and you’re looking at the history of the school, it might not have been at this actual location. It’s just– It could have been at a different building. You know what I’m saying? 

Christine: Okay, yeah. So– But it just closed as an establishment basically, even if it wasn’t the same location. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Okay, got it. 

Em: The school, the s– the school that closed that then became the actual restaurant was the last iteration of the school. 

Christine: Oh, I see. Okay. 

Em: Um, but before that, there was like five o– there was like five-ish other locations, so. 

Christine: Oh, it had different– Gotcha. Okay. 

Em: So when they say like, “Oh, yeah, and the school used to do this.” It’s like well, I don’t know if that was at this site or at a different property. 

Christine: Ah, okay. 

Em: Um, I only mention that because then I started digging into the school’s history because I was trying to figure out wh-what time period this building opened as the school. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: ’Cause there’s so many locations. I was trying to figure out when this one opened. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Um, I figured out the answer, by the way, which is that this ex– this building I’m talking about was the school from 1957 to 1977. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: So an exact 20 years. 

Christine: Okay, great. 

Em: But on my journey of research, I learned that the building prior to this was a two-room schoolhouse, which you know I love. 

Christine: Ah! No, you love a one-room schoolhouse. You can’t trick me. 

Em: I love a one-room more. But a two-room, I’m still intrigued. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Especially because, uh, there were up to 40 kids in 8 different grades. 

Christine: And the other cl– the other room was just the faculty diner where you could go and get– 

Em: Was just the cafeteria where there isn’t a lunch period. 

Christine: Wow! Kids are college prep. 

Em: This school had outhouses for bathrooms, wood stoves for heat, a windmill for water– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: –and it had a rattlesnake problem, where the kids’ fathers would come out each morning to “kchh!” [makes a cutthroat gesture] the snakes. 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: Because it was like the 1930s, uh, and so that was their only option, or so they thought. 

Christine: There’s no Orkin man. 

Em: No Orkin man. But, uh– Yeah, can you imagine a school full of children and rattlesnakes? 

Christine: Yes, I can, and I am. And it’s really an upsetting visual. 

Em: Imagine an episode of Abbott Elementary where there’s just a– 

Christine: It feels like an episode of Abbott Elementary though. Doesn’t it? 

Em: A rattlesnake infestation. 

Christine: The snake problem– Somebody accidentally brought a s– You know they’re gonna bring like some weird guy in to fix the snake problem. 

Em: Totally. 

Christine: And one gets in the ceiling. Listen, we could write a script for days on this. 

Em: Uh, there were two teachers in this school who also served as the principal, the fire builder, and the custodian, which– 

Christine: Fire builder? Oh, fire builder for fires to warm them. 

Em: For the– Yeah, where like– 

Christine: I thought you meant like a firefighter. And I went, “Okay, Dwight Schrute, volunteer firefighter.” 

Em: No. Well, I’m sure if the fire building didn’t go well, they also had to ship– ship– shapeshift into a firefighter. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Um, but, uh. Yeah, one of my favorite things about touring one-room schoolhouses is that– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –all, all the teachers were also fire builders, and they’ve had to come in early– or a lot of them lived at the school, and they would have to wake up early and like stoke the– 

Christine: Where did they live if there’s one room? 

Em: I think– The, the one that– One of them that I went to literally had like a Murphy bed where it would just– 

Christine: Like a lofted–? Ohh. 

Em: Like literally lived in the room. Or there– A lot of people, they’ll have like a shed outside that’s kind of their home base. 

Christine: Like, “Welcome to my house.” 

Em: I know, yeah. MTV Cribs– 

Christine: “I’ll teach you about arithmetic now.” [laughs] Uh, MTV Cribs. 

Em: “Hello children and snakes, come on in.” 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. “Hold on. Don’t look out the window. Your dad’s beheading another rattler. Just stay seated, and let me put my bed away.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: What the fuck kind of school is this? It sounds like the school Em went to. 

Em: Um, so, uh, not only were they the principal, the fire builder, and the custodian, but the kids also helped with the janitorial work, which is another thing I’ve learned on my tours at one-room schoolhouses is that instead of recess, it would basically be like, “Okay. Now, chore time,” where like you’re going to help me like– 

Christine: Okay, but like to be fair, they just got to watch a massacre of rattlesnakes every morning, so it’s like, “You know what? You got your entertainment. Okay? It’s time to get buckled down and get to work. Okay?” 

Em: “Education and a show. Now, put some– now, put some sh– elbow into it.” 

Christine: “Now, put some elbow grease.” Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “Yeah, let’s move it.” 

Em: Apparently, uh, one of the teachers we– was interviewed and said, “Oh, yeah. I remember back then the kids would bring lunch in tin cans,” which my prep school would have rolled over if they heard about that. 

Christine: A tin can? It would have been like a, um– I don’t know. Some sort of like, uh, newfangled, uh– 

Em: A Stanley lunchbox or some shit. 

Christine: A Stanley thermos. Yeah. 

Em: Uh, apparently, when the school transferred buildings to this one, uh, the, the one that I’m talking about today, the kids were the ones who moved all the furniture in, which– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –I love that this child labor is, uh– 

Christine: They had– gave zero shits back then, man. 

Em: No. And then, uh, the last thing I’ll say before I get back to our, uh, regular programming is, uh, I– when I was looking up this school and like all the newspaper articles, they said something that took me off guard, which was, um– one article was talking about rural 1930s school learning. They, they were talking about, “Oh, the kids are gonna go to Lewis Flats School to learn all about the 3 R’s.” I was like what the fuck are the three R’s? So I wanted to offer you– 

Christine: Oh yeah. Oh yeah, you know– You know I love this. 

Em: What do you think– 1930s, uh, education: what were the three R’s? 

Christine: [sighs] Racism. 

Em: Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Uh, racism and racism. Oh no. Okay, let me think. Uh. Respect? Rrra…. Rat catching? And– 

Em: [laughs] Rattlesnake catching. 

Christine: Rattlesnake kill– murdering. Rattlesnake wrangling. 

Em: I me– I mean, I literally– My first thought was like reduce, reuse, recycle. 

Christine: Re– [laughs] Oh wait, duh. That’s like the obvious one I should have thought of. That was a– 

Em: But I was like, “I don’t think they were doing that in the ‘30s.” So apparently, this was like a phrase from like the early 19th century where it was talking about Reading, Writing, Arithmetic because there was an “R” in each of them. 

Christine: Oh, so they’d say, “Reading, Writing, ‘Rithmetic.” 

Em: I guess so. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. I’ve heard, I’ve heard that. But you– Uh, beginning of– Was it the ei–19th century or 20th? Like beginning of the 1900s or beginning of the 1800s? 

Em: Early 19th century, so 1800s, I guess. 

Christine: Oh, 1800s. Got it. ‘R- ‘Rithmetic. I mean, it’s very f– clever. Like it’s funny ’cause it’s like, “Oh, we clearly haven’t learned it yet.” 

Em: Yeah, yeah. 

Christine: So it’s ‘Rithmetic. 

Em: Reading, Writing, ‘Rithmetic. Um, so anyway, those are the three R’s – fun fact if you wanna– 

Christine: Very clever. 

Em: –tell your kid what to go learn. 

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Em: So okay. 1957, now the building I’m talking about for the rest of the show, um, that building opened as the last iteration of the Lewis Flats Elementary School. It closed in 1977. Like I said earlier, the next year, um, it ended up getting bought by Van Jacobson. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: And it became the Adobe Deli. So one of the things that this restaurant is known for is the d– 

Christine: What city are we in? 

Em: N– It’s in New Mexico. It’s in D– 

Christine: New Mexico. 

Em: –Deming, New Mexico. 

Christine: Deming. 

Em: Um, one of the things that this restaurant is known for is its, um, ambience or wall decor because they have a lot of bric-a-brac all over the walls. 

Christine: Bric-a-brac! 

Em: You know I love a bric-a-brac. 

Christine: Oh yeah. 

Em: There’s a lot of signs and weird trophies and awards and posters and taxidermy and Old West shit and– 

Christine: Oh, and you know so much dust. 

Em: So much dust. Oh my god. Every time I go into one of those places, I’m like, “I feel like this is a health code violation for sure.” 

Christine: Yeah. I’m like– I’m gonna order a Pepsi and just kinda keep my hand over– 

Em: And cover my drink. 

Christine: –hand over it. Yes, exactly. [laughs] 

Em: Like can I blow into the cup first to make sure? 

Christine: Oh yeah! Yeah, you gotta. 

Em: ’Cause as, as kitschy as it is– I love kitsch. But– 

Christine: But, but a cobweb and a food don’t go together. Yeah. 

Em: But I know– Yeah, but I know that there’s something going on here. There’s at least a spider near me. 

Christine: Oh, at least! 

Em: Um, this place also literally has its own trolley car in there. Like he– 

Christine: That’s kick ass. 

Em: Van Jacobson really collects everything and puts it all in this restaurant. 

Christine: It feels like Spaghetti Warehouse vibes. Not that I’ve ever been inside one before. 

Em: But they sound like they make sense together, yes. 

Christine: Don’t they? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, there’s actually a review on TripAdvisor that says, uh– that lists some of the things that are in this restaurant. 

Christine: Let me put– Let me play the Beach Too Sandy music. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: [softly sings and hums Beach Too Sandy theme song] 

Em: “A large collection of mounted animal specimens that were won at an auction and reportedly own by– owned by a cartel boss. An outhouse that has bullet holes from a gun fight involving Billy the Kid.” 

Christine: Whoa! 

Em: “A wood box from the O.K. Corral. A flag with 48 stars. An 1892 post office.” Which what– 

Christine: Wait, what? 

Em: Like a whole post office is in there? Okay. Uh, “the most beautiful wood burning stove with pyrite instead of glass along the top of the stove.” 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: “And a stuffed 12 to 15 foot alligator.” 

Christine: This is like what I want my house to be like. Just like, just like bric-a-brac. Interesting. 

Em: Just like a– We– 

Christine: Retro. Vintage. 

Em: We had a restaurant like that in, in Fredericksburg when I was a kid called Spanky’s. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Oh my god. It was the best. They had like, like statues of like Spiderman on the ceiling, so it looked like he was crawling over you and like bicycles and– 

Christine: Wow. Is it still open? 

Em: Mm-mmm. No, it’s been closed for a long time. 

Christine: Bummer. What happened to all the stuff in there? 

Em: Great question ’cause I would– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: To this day, I think about that Spiderman. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. I wonder where he is. 

Em: Um, anyway, they would have gotten along. Maybe it’s at Van Jacobson’s place. 

Christine: It could be. 

Em: Um, fun fact for people who care, um. The menu has Boar’s Head products, which I love. I’m a– 

Christine: Oh, they just had a recall though. 

Em: I know. I know. And so did cucumbers. 

Christine: I almost texted you– Oh no. Our other favorite. 

Em: Well, I love cucumbers on my Boar’s Head products, so I was having a real problem that day. 

Christine: Woof. 

Em: Um, but usually, I’m a Boar’s Head girlie, so, um– 

Christine: I do know that about you. You did eat that the morning of my wedding as we all got dressed with the photographer, yeah. 

Em: Sure did. Uh, this– The menu also has a steak that “takes two servers just to bring out.” 

Christine: Oh! To carry it? 

Em: To carry it. 

Christine: Oh my god. Oh my god. 

Em: And on the menu, one of the options is Bigfoot? And it’s sold at market value. 

Christine: Hello? 

Em: I don’t– I couldn’t tell you. I don’t if it’s– 

Christine: That’s fucking fantastic. 

Em: I would order it out of curiosity, but I don’t know if it’s like a gag. 

Christine: I know. Like is that just like a big steak? Or like are you gonna pretend? Are you gonna play along and be like, “It’s a cut– a nice prime rib of Bi– Bigfoot”? I don’t know. 

Em: Or like do you just– Do they sell you like a slipper? Like a big foot, you know? 

Christine: Oh! [laughs] I was like, “Pardon?” Okay, I see. I see. Yeah, uh, I guess we’ll have to find out. 

Em: And then here’s a quote, uh, about the bar: “The bar has over 200 whiskeys and bourbons, 400 tequilas, and one of the largest selections of scotch in America.” So. 

Christine: Jesus. Wow. So they’re not even just talking the talk. They are like delivering on the product too. That’s interesting. 

Em: They’re going for it. So, anyway, that’s a little information on the Adobe Deli Restaurant. Um, shockingly very little to find about this place. Um, but as for the ghosts. The reasons why there might be ghosts there is because, um, first of all, the area that the restaurant is in, uh, has a lot of minerals containing quartz. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: So one– That’s one of the thoughts is that it might just be energy, uh, heavy. Also, uh, this area was a World War I training camp which later became a tuberculosis sanitorium. 

Christine: Oh my lordy. Okay, that’s a double whammy. 

Em: Well, triple whammy. Because then after it was abandoned, it became used, allegedly, for “devil worship.” 

Christine: Oh good. 

Em: And so it became like one of those local hotspots for teens. 

Christine: Right, ’cause it’s a tuberculosis hospital, and what could that use? A pentagram. 

Em: So all the satanists are going there. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: So that’s three reasons, I guess, in, in one location. Also this area was a heavily Indigenous space, which I’m aware of the controversy there, but we will get– It’s important to mention because of something that happens later. Um, but it’s a heavily Indigenous space, so the argument is that there’s a lot of energy there from that history. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Although I don’t often like to totally mention that– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –because then it implies that like the stereotype that they’re mystical and supernatural and causing a curse on everybody. And that’s just not my jam. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: But, um, it is important to mention it, and you’ll see why in a second. So as for this actual restaurant, there has been one death here, which was in the 1980s. And a guy during like a p– an event that was being hosted here, um– The guy had a heart attack mid-dance and just literally danced ’til he dropped. Um. 

Christine: Oh my lord. I was trying to think of like all the ways you could die with all that bric-a-brac, but it wasn’t even a falling Spiderman or anything. 

Em: It was nothing like that, unfortunately. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: It was just partying too hard. 

Christine: That’s like in Mouse Hunt, my least favorite movie of all time. 

Em: Now, that is a obscure reference. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, well. Yeah. That’s what I’m here for. [laughs] 

Em: You know what movie I loved and now as I get older, I go, “Eugh” was, uh, Fievel Goes West. 

Christine: Can’t stand it. Scared the absolute shit out of me. Made me so traumatized. That fucking mouse movie. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: A Tale of A Mouse or whatever the fuck. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: I didn’t sleep for weeks. 

Em: An American Tale. 

Christine: I lay– I used to lay there and just like shake. I was so scared. That movie fucked me up so bad. I will never forgive it. 

Em: I watched it– He was the one– That was the one about Nazis, right? Like I– 

Christine: Yes, he’s like a Holocaust survivor, and then he loses his parents. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And it’s like devastating. And I watched when I was like four or five. 

Em: I watched it way too often as a kid. 

Christine: Way too early and young and often. 

Em: I watched it way too often in like kindergarten. Like it was the one that they would play all the time right before nap time. 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: And I remember watching it later as an adult, and I was like, “This is about fucking Nazis.” And I was like, “How–“ 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: The media literacy was not there for me when I was a kid. Had no idea. 

Christine: I, I definitely clicked that very quickly as a kid, probably ’cause of, you know, my– 

Em: ’Cause you’re a little German child. 

Christine: –family history, but I was like, “I know what’s happening here.” And I fr– I really– My mom was so pissed ’cause my dad had taken us to like some, uh, dinner party or something, and like all the kids went in the basement and watched that movie. And I was probably like four, and she said I came home just like shaking like– I don’t– Anyway, that movie fucked me up big time, but, uh, I’d rather– 

Em: Well, you would think as a, as a Jew, my ancestors would have been like, “Pay attention to this now.” Um– 

Christine: Well, it sounds like you– Well, I was gonna say it d– it sounds like you did, and then I went, “Actually, no. It does not.” 

Em: Yeah, it sounds like I watched it, and– 

Christine: It sounds like you enjoyed it, which like wasn’t the point that your ancestors were like, “Well, not for fun.” 

Em: [laughs] In one ear and out the other. Totally, um. 

Christine: Yeah, and they’re like, “Look at Christine. She’s traumatized as she should be.” 

Em: Yeah, well, I guess between the two of us– And maybe they, they were like– 

Christine: If anyone needed the trauma, I guess it was me. Yeah. [laughs] Generationally, it was my turn to take some of that on maybe. 

Em: I just remember watching it and just– I– being like, “This is great,” and then watching it later and going, “Oh my god.” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] “This is great. This fucking mouse is what’s up. He is just having–“ 

Em: [laughs] I think I just– I just saw it– 

Christine: “Look at that floppy newsboy hat. I love it. He’s fucking nailing it with that tweed outfit.” 

Em: [laughs] I just saw– I think I just saw him as like going on an adventure. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I, I must have been like playing with Legos while it was in the background or something, but– 

Christine: I wish– You were probably eating your fucking pizza from the deli, and I– like I had to be starved in my seat at a real school, watching– 

Em: Probably so. 

Christine: Oh my god. It was fucked me up. 

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[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] Christine: I’m like, man. I’m so paranoid about Leona now. I’m like– I– Not paranoid, but I’m like– I’m so cautious. ’Cause something was playing the other day, and I was like– I think it was just Toy Story, and I was like, “I’m– I don’t want her to watch this.” [laughs] And Blaise is like, “It’s Toy Story.” And I was like, “But it’s scary. Wait ’til she’s like six.” I don’t know. But I’m also such a baby. 

Em: Um, I see– I– You just gotta go into it knowing that something eventually is gonna fuck her up. 

Christine: It’ll fuck her up. I know. I know. I just don’t want it to be on my– I don’t– 

Em: I mean, Count– The Count? 

Christine: I don’t– I– The Count? See, I wasn’t there. So at least when she was traumatized by Count von Count, I was not part of the process. And then afterward, I was like, “Okay, let’s deal with this.” And she’s like, “I just want to watch the Count all day now and face my fears.” And I was like, “Okay. I can handle that.” 

Em: That’s a fucking badass little girl. 

Christine: I can handle that, yeah. But, um– , Em: Did she really say that? 

Christine: Oh, so the Count came up on a show, and I was like, “Ah!” Click thumbnail later, and she goes, “Go back to the left.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I went, “She knows left and right now all of a sudden.” She goes, “Go back to the left.” I went back to the left, and I was like, “Oh, honey. Yeah, we don’t have to watch this one.” She’s like, “Click it.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I was like, “Oh my lord.” [laughs] 

Em: She’s like a little Wednesday Addams. 

Christine: No, it’s so bad because I’m like, “Oh no. She’s like wanting to like get scared, you know, which is like what I do.” 

Em: Like torture porn for a four-year-old. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, She’s like, “I wanna watch it.” I was like, “Oh, this feels like me watching crime shows at 2 in the morning like, ‘Just one more episode.’” 

Em: It is her crime show. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: It’s like, “I want to watch this dirty little Dracula. I want to watch him fucking count.” 

Christine: “This motherfucker–“ See, what– “I wanna figure him out.” Yeah. 

Em: “Count his days.” Yeah. 

Christine: “Yeah, he’s better count. His days are numbered, you know what I mean?” 

Em: Um, anyway– Hang on, I gotta blow my nose again. 

Christine: Anyway. Sorry, I just basically– While Em blows their nose, I just wanted to say how traumatized I am by everything in this world, and, uh, if you are also traumatized ’cause you’re a very, very sensitive ch– young child, then, um, we’re in– I feel you. Leona, apparently, is not one of them, but I was. 

Em: [laughs] No. Leona seems like someone– 

Christine: She’s not phased. 

Em: –who’s going to run into a wall and then run into it again just to make sure that she really felt it. 

Christine: And be like– Literally with you by her side, yes. Correct. 

Em: So while, uh– Okay, s-sorry. Blah-blah-blah-blah. The guy was dancing, and then he had a heart attack and fell over. That’s how he died. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: So that’s the only death on the property. While closing, staff have since heard footsteps, voices, and music playing on the speakers that have turned off, so they think maybe it’s the dancing guy. 

Christine: Oh, voices! Ooh. 

Em: Yeah, I don’t like the voices thing. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, they’ve also heard like mimic voices, which I don’t like at all. 

Christine: Nope. You know that that mimic thing I think for some reason is so scary to our generation. I don’t know what it is, but there’s something about like doppelgängers and mimics that like blew up on TikTok. 

Em: Hate it. 

Christine: We talked about that. It feels like one of those creepy like urban lo– legends that’s gonna be like specific to our generation. I don’t know why. 

Em: I– Yeah. I, I feel like I never heard about them until I got older. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, many people have also felt something watching them through the building, seen apparitions, uh, shadow figures, and moving lights. And one investigative team, uh, also got a picture of a face reflecting off of a TV screen. Yuck. 

Christine: Ew! 

Em: People feel, uh, bursts of cold air. They smell we-weird odors. They get, uh, crazy EVPs. They’ve gotten EVPs of clapping, which I hate for some reason. That’s worse than a voice. 

Christine: Eugh! Why is that so creepy? 

Em: I hate that. 

Christine: Do you know what– that makes me think of like A Quiet Place or something where it’s like– 

Em: Mm! Mm-hmm. Like [claps twice] 

Christine: Like the clap to make it like– 

Em: [claps twice] 

Christine: Eugh! It feels like something bad is about to happen. [laughs] 

Em: [sighs] Eugh. 

Christine: [laughs] Why am I traumatized by every movie I’ve ever seen? No wonder I hate movies. 

Em: That one is worth it though. That one is fair. Um– 

Christine: That’s the least scared I’ve been in any movie. And I’ve only watched Fievel and fucking Bambi. 

Em: There’s also an EVP of, uh, someone saying, “Sit down”– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: –which, please remember that because that comes back later. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Um, so it’s been said that in the back dining area, there’s a portal to the other side. Uh, multiple investigators have deemed this place haunted. 

Christine: Of the side of the building? Yeah, it’s called a door, guys. 

Em: [makes joke rimshot sound] I wish I had my– 

Christine: There’s a portal to the other side. 

Em: I wish I had my sound effects, so I could do the crickets. 

Christine: I’m so glad you don’t. I’m actually so glad. I just realized you don’t, so now I can say whatever I want. 

Em: Do you remember the one time we had a live show and there was literally a cricket in the fucking restaurant? 

Christine: [laughs] That was so good. That felt like God’s fucking prank on us, you know what I mean? 

Em: I– At some point, you did something where you made a joke or you made a joke that like it wasn’t actually meant to be a joke, but there was, there was silence afterwards. And I was like, “Where’s that cricket?” and that was like the biggest laugh we got all night. 

Christine: Uh, I like that you’re like, “I remember my joke about the cricket. That was–“ 

Em: I don’t remember what you said, but I remember thinking like, “Oh, this is the perfect moment for that cricket to really show up.” 

Christine: For that fucking cricket! [laughs] I forgot. And it was literally like. “Chirp-chirp. Chirp.” I mean, it’s like literally the last sound you want to associate with your own comedy and paid– 

Em: [laughs] Besides “boo.” 

Christine: Besides “boo,” exactly. Yeah. Crickets, oy. I actually– I’d prefer “boo.” I feel like “boo” is at least a reaction. At least somebody’s there. 

Em: That was, that was still so good though. I remember just hearing a cricket the whole time, and I remember thinking like, “Is someone fucking with us? Like is there a literal fucking cricket here?” 

Christine: Yeah, it felt like someone had a button or something, you know, like– 

Em: Like did Jiminy come to the show? 

Christine: [laughs] [sighs] 

Em: Okay, so anyway, uh, yes. There’s a portal to the other side of the other side of the door. 

Christine: The other side. 

Em: Um, uh, multiple investigators have deemed this place haunted, and scared employees have literally asked Van to come back to the bar after he’s left because they’re so scared of being alone with the activity. 

Christine: Aw, Van. 

Em: Um, Van himself has had a weird moment where one time he was making coffee in the kitchen and some of it spilled on the floor. So he like threw a dishrag over it to wipe it up. And when he picked up the rag, the coffee stains on the rag spelled out, “Van die.” 

Christine: What? 

Em: Like die, Van. His name and “die.” 

Christine: I, I literally thought you were going to say like, “And then the coffee stains were gone or something, and it never was–“ And then you said like it spelled out words. It just was taken me by– taking me by surprise. “Van die.” Okay, it had to be really clear because you don’t necessarily look at a stain and think, “What does this spell if it were words?” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like it must have been so clear that he just glanced at it and went, “Holy shit.” 

Em: Especially because despite this, he’s unsure if the place is really haunted. 

Christine: Yeah, what the fuck? 

Em: So he doesn’t even really believe in the ghost, which means it– 

Christine: Did he get a picture of this thing? 

Em: I didn’t– There’s no picture that I saw. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: But like, uh, if you already aren’t a believer and then you see that, and you’re like, “Oh, that’s fucking weird.” It’s like worth mentioning, then it must be pretty clear. 

Christine: You’d think so, right? Like ’cause otherwise it would mean you were looking for a sign. And obviously, if he doesn’t believe it– Yeah, that’s really strange, Em. I don’t know. 

Em: So that is, um, when it comes to just googling, that was literally fucking all I could find. But then, of course, guess who’s been there? 

Christine: [laughs] I’m like, “Who?” 

Em: So this is, um, for those of you who want this, a– essentially a, a review of– 

Christine: A play-by-play. 

Em: –a play-by-play of an episode– 

Christine: Do you want me to play the one star Beach Too Sandy music again with my vocal cords? 

Em: Yes, but put it on– 

Christine: Maybe we could have Jack– What if put Jack– had Jack put the music under it just for, uh, shits and gigs while you– while you discuss– 

Em: That’d be beautiful except this is a lot of bullet notes. So– [laughs] 

Christine: Oh okay. Well, it is on loop, so we’ll see if we can [laughs] pull it off. 

Em: Well, so, uh, this was in 2018, and this is episode– or season 20, episode 4 of Ghost Adventures. And this is where I also have to say, this is– All the info– It’s almost like I’m giving you a second rundown of the history because none of this was online anywhere. 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: All the info I’m about to tell you– It was like two different stories, and I checked. It’s not. Um, but all the history– You would have thought any of that would have been something that like Zak used as a reason why the place is haunted– 

Christine: Huh. 

Em: N– They never mentioned the guy dancing and falling. 

Christine: What was the s– 

Em: They never mention– 

Christine: So where was that source from? Or what source was that from? 

Em: That was– Those were all of my internet sources. That was– 

Christine: But like was, was that like from their website? Or was that like a different article? 

Em: There was like– Let me see how many articles there were. Uh, 11 sources. Some of them were the– 

Christine: And they all told that story, and then Ghost Adventures was different? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: That’s weird. 

Em: Um, and so– Yeah, this just goes into like who’s telling the truth. 

Christine: That’s really weird. 

Em: But, um, yeah, and some of them were like newspaper articles. Some of them were– Most of them were newspaper articles. Um, but then there was like Only In Your State and TripAdvisor. But most of them were like Santa Fe New Mexican, The Deming Headlight– 

Christine: Hm. 

Em: –Deming Headlight, New Mexico Magazine, Newspapers.com, the actual restaurant website. Um– 

Christine: So it’s even from their own website. See that’s crazy ’cause if that– that would be the story you’d think they tell in person too if it’s on their website. 

Em: Well, so the, the death of the body, that was from a newspaper article. I don’t think that was from the website. 

Christine: Oh, got it. Oh, so maybe they don’t lean into that or something. 

Em: But– But– Yeah, so maybe they don’t. Maybe he like really doesn’t believe in the ghosts, so he just doesn’t talk about it a lot. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: But then– Basically everything I’m going to tell you now, I did not see on any other sources except from Zak. 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: Um, meanwhile, anything I saw in those sources does not get mentioned. 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: So like the ghost of the man dropping? They don’t even talk about him on the show. 

Christine: Remember when you did do this about a Spaghetti Warehouse, I think? 

Em: I sure do, yeah. 

Christine: Or whatever the fuck. 

Em: I su– The Spaghetti Factory or something. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. You switched them by mistake, and it was very– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Listen, that might have been the show with the cricket ’cause I think– [laughs] 

Em: Remember when I learned about fucking black holes by accident? 

Christine: Re– [laughs] Remember when you thought, you thought you had a fever but really there was an actual ant walking across your notes on stage? Oh, man. 

Em: That was Florida. That was the last time I’ve felt this sick, for sure. 

Christine: The number of like insects that have been involved. What about ha– the time you got hand, foot, and mouth? I’m going to s– quote you on this if you tell me that you’ve not– that that wasn’t as bad. 

Em: But th– this is like a cold symptoms. That was its own– That was a literal disease it felt like. That was crazy. 

Christine: I mean, it was. [laughs] 

Em: That was, that was its own brand of– 

Christine: That felt like a literal disease. 

Em: To this day, I call it the thing that you would wish on your worst enemy because it was– 

Christine: Oh my lord. Okay. Alright. 

Em: Because it– No, because it was– They’re gonna recover, and they’re gonna be fine. 

Christine: I mean, yes, it’s like boils. 

Em: But in terms of like pain and inconvenience, it’s the, it’s the exact thing you want to give somebody you hate. Um. 

Christine: No, I’m gonna give somebody Crohn’s disease. Good luck with that. I’m gonna hand that out and see what happens. 

Em: No, it– I– 

Christine: That’s my punishment. 

Em: If you wanted t– if you wanted to wish something on someone you knew they’d recover eventually, hand, foot, and mouth disease is the thing for sure. 

Christine: I mean, it seems like that’s exactly– 

Em: I– That’s, that’s my hot take. Um. 

Christine: –what happened and what I did. 

Em: But– Oh! 

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Christine: Anyway. 

Em: Hand, foot, and mouth disease is my weapon of choice is all I’m gonna say. 

Christine: Oh my lord, Em. 

Em: Uh, so– 

Christine: No comment. 

Em: That’s why I want to– wanted to say that this information is going to sound like different, um. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: But, uh, I will say Van Jacobson was like heavily involved in this episode, so he was there. 

Christine: That’s what’s so confusing. If his website says it, you know. That’s just so weird. 

Em: I also wanna mention that in terms of Ghost Adventures episodes, this one is cinematic art. 

Christine: [laughs] That– And you know that’s saying something ’cause this is a cinematic show. 

Em: This, uh– I feel like it was actually written– Ha– I mean, arguably it was written. Maybe it wasn’t. I don’t know, but if it wasn’t, everything fell in place very beautifully. 

Christine: Is this, um, is this the one that got an Oscar? That Zak got an Oscar for? 

Em: Are you kidding me? 

Christine: This episode? 

Em: Does he have an Oscar? 

Christine: [laughs] No. 

Em: Oh my god. [laughs] Oh my god. 

Christine: Is this one Zak got a Tony for? 

Em: I was like, “You have to be kidding.” Well, he probably got a Grammy for that fucking [in deep voice] “Rhonda, holy shit” song. So. 

Christine: [laughs] If not, he deserves one, and he’s been cheated out of it. [starts singing] ♪ Rhonda– ♪♪ [laughs] 

Em: “The Immortal Portal” a Grammy– It’s hit platinum, uh. 

Christine: [laughs] He’s gonna be in Wicked Two. 

Em: I know. 

[laughs] 

Em: Oh my god. So, uh, okay. Here’s why it’s cinematic art. Let me just tell you w– how this episode goes. So, uh– Oh, and I also want to say, fun fact, that when this episode came out, the Adobe Deli hosted a watch party during its premiere, which I love. 

Christine: [gasps] Now, that’s so cool. That’s so fun. 

Em: It, it included a steak dinner and an investigation at the end of it, which I love. 

Christine: Oh, Em! That’s our dream! To watch the episode and then get to like do a ghost hunt at the place. Oh! 

Em: Steak and a ghost? Are you kidding me? 

Christine: With a steak, I mean. Come on. 

Em: So, okay. Remember I mentioned– 

Christine: In a one-room schoolhouse? Hang on, it’s getting better and– 

Em: Actually, I have t– I have to go– 

Christine: Like think about– The more I think about it, the number of whiskeys. I mean, think about it. It’s like made for– I mean, I don’t drink whiskey, but I’ll take a tu– try at tequila, but– 

Em: Well, there’s 400 tequilas and– 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. I’ll fi– I’ll make it work, but– Man. 

Em: And apparently, they have their own signature tequila you can bring home too, so. 

Christine: This is so fun. 

Em: Uh, okay, so remember I told you all about the bric-a-brac all over the walls? 

Christine: I remember. 

Em: So that is why Zak came here. Um, starts there. 

Christine: Oh. Okay. 

Em: Because he believes that everything has a lot of connec- energy connected to it. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: So he was like, “The chaotic energy is obviously why I’m coming to this place.” 

Christine: Like the– everything in this place he believed had– or everything in the world he believes has– or–? 

Em: He’s a big believer in everything has energy attached to it. 

Christine: Oh, but so he found out this place had a lot of junk all over it and– Not junk, sorry. Art. And then said, uh, “Oh, I gotta go there ’cause there’s all this stuff.” Okay, gotcha. Gotcha. 

Em: And, um– 

Christine: He probably wanted to collect it for his fucking museum.   Em: Hold that thought, so– [laughs] 

Christine: Ahh! Shut up. [laughs] 

Em: So on top of all that energy (this is why I mentioned the Indigenous thing earlier), Zak suspects that this building is haunted because of the Indigenous people who quote “slaughtered settlers in their sleep.” 

Christine: Oh my god. Zachary Alexander Bagans, get it together, you motherfucker. 

Em: So that’s the story they’re going with, not the like the town is made of quartz– 

Christine: Holy shit, Rhonda. 

Em: –not that it li– it’s near a World War I training camp sanatorium local legend satanist gathering area. 

Christine: Okay, but how awkward if you’re the owner– What’s his name again? Van. 

Em: Mhm. 

Christine: What if you’re Van and you’re like, “I put on this big watch party and then Zak like wrote a whole new history,” you know what I mean? 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: Like what if, what if he told him like, “No, no. Here’s the backstory. It’s on our website.” And then Zak was like, “Actually, I like to go with the Native American theory.” Like what if they watched it and went, “Holy shit. That is not–“ 

Em: Maybe. Honestly, maybe that’s what happened. 

Christine: You know what I mean? 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: Eugh. 

Em: Like you know when like Van like slowly started turning the volume down, he’s like– 

Christine: Yes, exactly. And he’s like, “Should we start the ghost hunt early? Let’s, uh–“ 

Em: It’s li00ke,“Bring out more steak. Distract them.” 

Christine: “Where’s the commercial break?” [laughs] 

Em: So, uh, Zak talks to Van– Well, okay. Actually, uh, sidebar to that whole conversation we just had– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: Um, I don’t know if Van is, uh, on top of it socially. Um– 

Christine: Oh. Oh, that’s an interesting thing to say. Speak on that. [laughs] 

Em: I’ll– Only– [laughs] Not in like a, um– Like I, I think he’s maybe out of touch with the way we see things because, uh– 

Christine: [laughs] This is getting more and more– 

Em: Well, if you, if you watch it, just, just trust the process on this. Let me say that. 

Christine: What the fuck does he say? Okay, okay. 

Em: So, okay. Zak goes there because obviously the Indigenous people murdered everybody. 

Christine: Slaughtered everybody. 

Em: How dare they, right? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, then Zak talks to Van who tells him, “Oh, yeah–“ I’m saying Indigenous, by the way. Never once was the word “Indigenous” used in the show. 

Christine: Well, obviously. 

Em: Um, Van tells him, “Oh yeah. This Indigenous guy who’s an alcoholic–“ which was not necessary, um, “died in the parking lot when his car caught on fire, and he burned inside of it.” 

Christine: Jesus. 

Em: But so why wasn’t that in any of the fucking newspaper articles? And Van is the one who said this. 

Christine: What the fuck is going on at this place? 

Em: And so when he– Apparently, I think he was saying– By mentioning the alcoholic thing, maybe it’s like he fell asleep in his car. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: I guess. But anyway, the car overheated, and the grass was dry, so the car caught on fire, and then he burned inside of it. Then the guy’s family, also Indigenous, asked Van if they could bring the charred remains back to the property and do a proper ceremony or a proper ritual– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –um, uh, for their loved one who passed away. And so that’s another reason why he thinks it might be haunted because an Indigenous person died here and then his remains were brought back and a ritual was performed on the property, so. But again, where was that in the newspaper? Never saw that anywhere. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, so then we get to all of the bric-a-brac. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Van says that 40 of the hundreds of items– 40 of them are from an auction where the original owner of these items killed two men, uh– 

Christine: What? 

Em: –over drugs is what he had to say. So– 

Christine: And what the f– What– Wait, what kind of items were they? Did you see– like did you see what kind of stuff it was that was so like–? 

Em: Well, a lot of it is taxidermy. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: One of them that they really honed in on was a water buffalo. 

Christine: Stop. 

Em: A taxidermied water buffalo. And Zak says, “Do you think this water buffalo witnessed these murders?” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And then– 

Christine: Wait, wait, wait. Let me answer. Yes, I do. 

Em: Well, so– Not– So they’re talking about all these items. Zak goes, “Do you think this water buffalo that you bought from the original killer, uh–“ 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: “–do you think he saw the murder?” And then Ghost Adventures, uh, zooms in on the water buffalo– 

Christine: Stop. 

Em: –and edits a teardrop into his eye. 

Christine: No. Absolutely not. 

Em: Here’s– Here’s a picture for you. 

Christine: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. You’re fucking with me right now. I’m like–Th– Is it– 

Em: Do you see it? 

Christine: No, not yet. It’s opening. My computer’s so slow, sorry. Em, is this some sort– I mean, Em. You can’t make this shit up. 

Em: Literally, the edit is the tear rolling down his face. 

Christine: Like you know Zak had to have come up with this. Right? Like this is not– I mean, what in god’s name is happening right now? 

Em: Isn’t that–? Do you see the picture? 

Christine: I see the picture. 

Em: Isn’t it so unnecessarily dramatic? 

Christine: It is out of control stupid. 

Em: It zooms, it zooms in on the face, and as it pans out, the tear starts dropping. 

Christine: This is insanity. [laughs] This is insanity. you’re right. Cinematic magic. You are– I can’t believe I’ve never seen this episode. 

Em: So, uh, then he interviews– Zak interviews this one employee who says that her cousin came in to do a cleansing there, but then the cousin started acting weird, so they like physically had to remove her from the building. And she still wasn’t acting right, um, and it felt like someone was physically pulling them back into the house, which is terrifying. Uh, so anyway, the team, when they start investigating or doing their, their walkthrough, they feel cold air throughout the night. They also get, um, a figure from the SLS camera, uh, or the stick figure camera. They see a little stick figure pop up. Their EMF detector intelligently spikes so like whenever– 

Christine: What if they saw a big water buffalo on the SLS? [laughs] 

Em: Oh my god. Yeah, like are you kidding me? What if they saw only the tear rolling down. It’s– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Uh, they saw– So their EMF detector spiked whenever it was asked. Uh, they got flashes of weird light. They felt like something was jabbing them. They got orbs. But, uh, at some point, Zak sees a shadow move in a room, and he feel– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: He says like, “This room feels like it’s the most negative.” Let’s call this “the scary room” from now on because we’re gonna return to it. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: So this is the scary room. And this is where Zak says it feels the most negative anyway. So in this scary room, uh, way back when, there was a bartender there named Craig who actually fell asleep in the scary room after the bar closed. And he woke up to feeling what felt like five or six people sitting on his chest. He could no longer hear anything, and when it all kind of broke, um, he was– He felt free again, but all he heard was the phrase, “Sit down”– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –which was that EVP that another team had heard. 

Christine: Oh, shut the fuck up. 

Em: So he heard “sit down,” and the stereo in the other room was blaring by it– And it had turned on by itself. 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Em: So during this interview, Zak and this bartender that they’re interviewing, they do an EVP se– 

Christine: And that– they’re interviewing Craig? 

Em: They’re interviewing Craig, yeah. 

Christine: Oh, got it. Okay. 

Em: So he’s telling the story of this happening to him. 

Christine: For some reason, I thought he died. [laughs] 

Em: Oh no. 

Christine: I think ’cause you said he fell asleep in the kitchen. I thought it was going to catch on fire again or something, but I’m– okay. So he’s part of the episode. 

Em: Yeah, so they’re asking him about this story. 

Christine: Gotcha. 

Em: So they hear this story. While they’re doing this, Zak asks one of the EMF detectors, um, to spike all the way to red if it can hear them. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And two, two different times he asks that and it does intelligently spike right away. 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: Very creepy. Um, flash forward because we didn’t hear this in the moment, but an EVP was caught during this of Craig’s voice– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Like the camera is on Craig, and he’s not talking. 

Christine: The mimic! Ah! 

Em: Mm-hmm. The camera is on Craig, and he’s not talking. But you can hear his voice saying, “Fuck you.” 

Christine: [gasps] Ew! That is so gross. I hate that. 

Em: And– Yeah. 

Christine: It’s like, it’s like using your, using you, your identity to mask itself. 

Em: And your power ’cause you’re just sitting there, and it’s taking your energy. 

Christine: Ugh! That’s so nasty. I don’t like that. I don’t give you permission to do that, you little creepy ghost. 

Em: It also– There was another creepy voice that came through, but it was kind of inaudible. Um, in the silence, so when Craig does actually speak, he says– Uh, I guess he can feel something around him, and he kinda has like a vulnerable moment. And he says, “Did you know my dad?” Like he asked the ghosts, “Did you know my dad?” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And he thought, apparently,– 

Christine: Oh jeez. 

Em: –as he asked that, he heard In his head, he heard the word, “Mike,” which was his dad’s name. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: And it– He said like, “I, I heard the name ‘Mike,’” and he got emotional, and he left the property. Well, later on playback, they got an EVP of a voice saying “Mike.” Eugh. 

Christine: [gasps] And he didn’t even– Was it at the same time he– Around the same time he–? 

Em: Yeah, it was at the same time he heard– 

Christine: Oh my lord. 

Em: So, um, [laughs] here we go. So Zak finds out that a few feet away from the restaurant, there’s a little shed that Van keeps additional bric-a-brac in. And it’s a specific collection– 

Christine: That sounds, that sounds shady as fuck, but I know it’s just creepy taxidermy animals. 

Em: Well, this collection is Indigenous artifacts. 

Christine: I knew there was something shady going on. God damn it. 

Em: Um, but apparently, Van himself on camera says they are 900 to 1,500 years old. And he just collects them. 

Christine: 900 to– To how many? Wait, nine to– Ho– 

Em: 900 to 1,500 years old. 

Christine: My brain like couldn’t even compute that, but– 

Em: Which first of all– Who knows how real that is, let’s be clear. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Um, but– 

Christine: ’Cause I’m sure he’s a historian also amongst all this other shit. 

Em: Right. Uh– 

Christine: So that– And that’s so fucked up to be like, “Anyway, I keep it in this shed.” Like Jesus Christ. 

Em: Yes. And, uh, especially because the items are – I, I hope I’m saying it right – Mimbres kill hole bowls– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –which are bowls that, um– In, in that culture, when someone passes away, they would put a bowl that had a hole in it– 

Christine: Oh… Uh-huh. 

Em: –in the center. They would put it over their face– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –uh, when they buried the body. I think when they buried the body or when they were, when they were at least preparing the body for death. 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: And the hole allowed the spirit to come out– 

Christine: [gasps] Wow. 

Em: –and, and fly away. So– Or go to the other side. 

Christine: [laughs] Fly away. 

Em: Fly away. I don’t know. To wherever you want to fly. And, uh, not only is this something like very like important to that culture, but it’s– 

Christine: And like holy and sacred. 

Em: But it’s also like s– attached to the spirit world. 

Christine: Right, right. Like it’s a very sacred thing, yeah. Wow. 

Em: So Van says– He’s like– shows him like this whole display. They’re all– There’s like several of them, several of them just like lined up on a shelf. 

Christine: So sort of like a death mask but not like a mask. It’s a– Yeah. I– A, a cover. 

Em: It’s, it’s literally– 

Christine: Like a shroud or something. 

Em: Yeah, it’s literally a, a bowl with a hole in it, and they put it on someone’s face. Yeah. 

Christine: Right, right. 

Em: Um, and it has like all these like, you know, art on it. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: They, they’re all individually– They all look different. 

Christine: Oh, cool. 

Em: Um, so anyway, he sees all of these. Even Zak feels shaken up by this. He’s like, “Oh god. Uh, that–“ 

Christine: “Thanks for showing me your shed, guy.” Yeah. 

Em: Yeah, this like random white cowboy in New Mexico is like, “Look at all these–“ like not saying the word Indigenous, ‘artifacts’–“ 

Christine: Yeah. In my, in my shed. 

Em: “–that are 900 to 1,500 years old.” Which like, first of all, how– Like are you just guessing that number? Because if anyone in their right mind actually gave you that number, they would also tell you to like donate these or not keep them for yourself. 

Christine: I mean, not necessarily if they’re selling them. 

Em: You think? 

Christine: You know, yeah. If people are selling them, yeah. 

Em: Oh that’s– 

Christine: Yeah, like in estate sales and– 

Em: I don’t think they’re for sale though. Oh. It– I– 

Christine: No, like I– because I go on estate sales a lot, and people, like wealthy folks love to collect shit like this and put it on display. And then when they pass away, they go for sale. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And you always hope it goes somewhere, you know, where it’s like respected and appreciated, whatever. 

Em: Gotcha. 

Christine: But you never know. I mean, I could just easily pay a couple hundred bucks and take it to my house. 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: And be like, “Look what I have”, you know? So I think there’s a degree that some people just don’t even realize, you know. Um. 

Em: That’s true. Anyway– 

Christine: So I– It could very well be that somebody just sold it from an estate sale or something, and he bought it, like that other guy, and like put it in his shed. And– Eugh. 

Em: Yeah, so anyway, this is, this is like his personal collection. This is why I was saying earlier I don’t think he was– he’s as progressive as maybe we are. You know what I’m saying? 

Christine: I– Is that what you were saying? We couldn’t figure out what you were saying ’cause you just kept saying he’s socially– 

Em: Oh, I see. No, I meant– 

Christine: –different. And we were like, “What?” 

Em: Sorry, sorry. I meant– 

Christine: “We” meaning me. 

Em: I meant like socially like, um, politically that, um– 

Christine: Behind the times, maybe? 

Em: Behind the times, yeah. 

Christine: And then again, it’s 2024, and Trump is our next president. So maybe we’re behind the times. I don’t know anymore. 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: You know. Fuck my life. 

Em: So Zak is obviously, um, even uncomfortable a little bit. And Van says– 

Christine: Not obviously, but thank you for pointing that out. You said, “obviously, he’s uncomfortable.” That Zak– That ob– 

Em: He’s– 

Christine: I know, but that’s not obvious. Usually he’s not, so if he is uncomfortable, that means like Van has pushed him pretty far. 

Em: That’s true. So Van– 

Christine: Like it’s a low bar. 

Em: Van tells him, “When people see these bowls, they say they feel spirits near them.” And he seems a little like surprised. Like Van himself is surprised that people say that they feel spirits on these things. He also says that ever since collecting them, he has dreams about Indigenous people– 

Christine: Oh god. 

Em: –and he doesn’t see a correlation. Um– 

Christine: What? So he’s still maintaining that he doesn’t believe in ghosts? 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Oh my lord. Okay. 

Em: Uh, Van even picks up one of the bowls and like kinda passes it over to Zak and says, “Hold one for yourself.” 

Christine: No. 

Em: And then Zak literally says, “I think this is the one time I’m gonna not hold the object.” [laughs] 

Christine: Shut up. Shut up. Like I just got a flash of those headlines of Post Malone c-crashing his car after the Dybbuk box, and Zak won’t touch this? That’s amazing. Wow. 

Em: He, uh, he’s like, “I’m good.” 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: So later, Zak hears a noise and sees a shadow dart by a mural in, in this, in this restaurant. The mural happens to be three Indigenous faces staring at you. So Zak– 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: So Zak makes this, uh, a part of the storyline where it’s like, “a shadow darted by the Indigenous people staring at me, so it must be them.” 

Christine: Sure. Uh-huh, Yeah. 

Em: Which I will say, the mural is actually kind of jarring in the middle of the night. It’s three massive faces staring at you, but, um– 

Christine: Well, of course, but also there’s a giant wild boar over there, you know. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, that’s a good point. So, uh, Aaron alone is in the scary room, and he says, “I’m feeling an energy in here.” And the Ovilus says the word, “Laugh.” Then he hears clattering like silverware hits the floor. 

Christine: Oh boy. 

Em: And so like– So like s-silverware moved by itself and hit the floor. He takes off. Then when they’re all together– 

Christine: Do we hear that? 

Em: Yes. Oh, you definitely hear it. You definitely hear it. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: Um, and it sounds exactly like silverware hitting the floor. 

Christine: Eugh. 

Em: But later, they confirm that, but when I heard it, I was like, “That was like a, like a fork or something for sure.” Um, the Ovilus then says “Group After Bar,” which, um, Zak takes as they’re– it’s talking about them because they’re the group after the bar closed. Okay? 

Christine: Sure. 

Em: And then the Ovilus says, “Apocalypse. Tease. Alter. Curse.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And Zak takes that as they’re cursed after teasing the altar of the bowls. And now they’re cur– They’re, they’re– The end of the world because they– 

Christine: Oh my god. He is such a little doofu– Dingus is what he is. Like okay. 

Em: So he was like, “Tease the altar, and now we’re cursed? I didn’t tease any altar.” And the friends, the guys, the other guys were like, “Yeah, you did, dude. Yeah, you did.” Because what they didn’t show you on camera, Mister I’m-Not-Going-To-Hold-The-Object. Guess who fucking bought one of them off of Van? 

Christine: No! So he was just gonna not like tell that part? 

Em: A– He was– He literally was like, “I’m not gonna hold it,” but then he bought one. So I’m sure he held it. 

Christine: Of course he did. Of course he did. He– I swear to god. This guy, this fucking guy. And now it’s in his fucking museum. 

Em: So while talking about this and like the– Even the other guys are like, “Yes, you literally teased the altar by buying one of them.” Um, the Ovilus says, “Knife. Wish. Disease.” 

Christine: Oh no. That’s no good. 

Em: So Zak asks the spirits to show themself and through the window– 

Christine: It says, “Hand. Foot. Mouth.” [laughs] 

Em: “Mouth.” Yeah, truly. [laughs] Zak asks the spirits to show themselves, and through the window, he sees a shadow walk past a door. So he goes to check the door and finds crushed animal bones left on the stoop. And that– 

Christine: Okay, crushed animal bones? 

Em: Mm-hmm. Which, uh– 

Christine: Do they show it? 

Em: Yes, they do. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: But also like I’m not convinced that that wasn’t somebody who just put a fucking skull there, uh, but this is where– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –Zak says, “Oh, guys. By the way, we’re in Skinwalker territory.” 

Christine: Ew! [fake screams] Ah! 

Em: Uh, they come back into the scary room. They actually find a knife on the ground and realize that that’s what dropped. 

Christine: [gasps] Ohh. 

Em: That’s what Aaron heard. And the Ovilus had said the word, “Knife.” 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Um, as the group leaves the room, they hear something else drop. And when they go back to check the room, now a sign is on the floor that was on the wall. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: It’s now fallen on the floor. And the sign said, “It’s all about me.” 

Christine: Ew! 

Em: This is when they start freaking the fuck out because they’re– they look up and realize the sign, like the shadow earlier, happened right next to the mural of the three faces. 

Christine: Yeesh. 

Em: So at this point, they’re looking back on when the Ovilus said, “Group After Bar”– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and they originally thought it was about them. Now they think “Group After Bar” is about this mural ’cause it’s the group of faces just past the bar. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And right at, at the mural, at the bottom of the mural, the sign falls and says, “It’s all about me.” 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: Aaron asks, “Is it okay that Zak has the bowl?” And they hear this huge crashing sound. Aaron smells rotten eggs, and then they hear another slam. And when Aaron runs off, the next time you see him on camera, he’s on the ground because at some point, his knees buckled, and he fell and got scratches on his head. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Isn’t that like so dramatic? And then the show ends. 

Christine: Oh my god. [laughs] 

Em: Cut to black. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh my god. Cinematic. 

Em: Cinematic. 

Christine: Masterpiece. Wow. 

Em: So anyway, that was, that was very long, but, um, that was the Adobe Deli. 

Christine: Wow. Wow. Wow, wow, wow. Em told me, “I have a short story for you today,” and I was not prepared for– 

Em: I really thought it was gonna be a short one. It was like– The notes were half what they usually are. It was just Ghost Adventures notes. 

Christine: It, it, it had to be Ghost Adventures. That must be why, why, why I couldn’t, uh, contain myself. Um, but we al–also always do this where we’re like, “It’s short,” so then we just banter and then make it longer than it should have been. Um– 

Em: Whoops.

Christine’s Story – Mike Barajas

Christine: So this one is about Mike Barajas.

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And when I say this one, I mean this episode that I’m about to tell you. This– 

Em: Right, you just, you just kinda dropped right into it. 

Christine: So this one– I’ve never found a good way to start my segment. Usually, it’s, “Em, I have to pee,” and then, uh, an awkward tangent. But I’m gonna try something new, which is: today’s story is about Mike Barajas. 

Em: ‘Kay. 

Christine: So Mike Barajas – full name: Miguel Barajas, nickname: Mike. He was in his early 20s serving in the army at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas when he met a woman named Sandra Siegel. So Mike lived off-base, and he stopped every morning at the same gas station and convenience store for gas, drinks, and snacks. And it didn’t hurt that he met Sandra at this gas station because she worked there, and she had the same shift. And she was kinda cute and a few years older than him. And so he would stop in almost every day and, uh, chat up Sandra. And as time passed, their casual morning chitchat became like much more in-depth conversations. And Mike and Sandra really got to know each other and started to really like each other. So Sandra was born in 1960, right there in El Paso. And she had always been strong-willed and straightforward like a very, uh, no nonsense, very blunt kind of person. Um, she could be a little harsh with her honesty, but people actually seemed to like that about her. She had been married just out of high school, and so by the time she was working at the gas station and met Mike, she was already divorced. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And she was a couple years older than him, um, but she was already divorced and had two young daughters at home who were both under six years old. And so, I imagine that the day that, uh, Mike a– you know, learns about the two kids at home and the divorce, I imagine that she’s probably like, “This is going to be a test of our newfound friendship.” [laughs] 

Em: Right. Big day. 

Christine: Big day for us. Let’s see if we get past this. But they did, and, um, it did not scare him away. Uh, he, he really, really liked Sandra and was willing to try and make things work. Um, he was, like I said, a few years younger– I think about five years younger. And he was actually the eldest of four boys that had been born into a military family that moved around a lot in childhood. And so he was very used to being kind of like the eldest, the more responsible one, and so when Sandra told him about her daughters, it just didn’t really phase him much. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: And, um, as kind of just a very chill and natural leader type, um, he, he didn’t really mind. So they got together, and just a year after they met, Sandra and Mike were married. And he became a 21-year-old stepfather to two children. So– Wow. 

Em: Oof. Big, big, uh– 

Christine: Big commitment. 

Em: Yeah, yeah. 

Christine: So just like he’d been with his, um, younger brothers when, when he was a kid, um, Mike was very doting toward the two girls, um, very devoted to them, treated them like his own biological children. And once his initial contract with the army ended, Mike decided to leave and take a civilian job as a hospital security guard, so that he would be able to stay home more often, have easier shifts, and spend more time with his new family, his new daughters. So the family all lived together in El Paso until Dawn and Angie grew into teenagers, and that’s when the family moved almost 600 miles north to Colorado Springs. So Mike’s brothers and some of his extended family lived there, and Mike desperately wanted to move closer to his family. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, he was really close to his brothers. And Sandra and the girls had gone to Colorado to spend Christmas with his family for years, but when it came to moving there, they were like, “That’s a big ask,” you know. Um, it’s a completely different climate, obviously, from El Paso to Colorado. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Uh, you’re very far away from Sandra’s family who is all in El Paso, and, you know, they’re teena– dau– The daughters are teenagers, so they would have to like uproot in high school– 

Em: Ugh. What a massive– 

Christine: –you know, and start a new– It’s a– Right. 

Em: –massive ask. 

Christine: It’s a big, big shift. And so Mike was just really, really pushing this idea, and eventually, you know, they thought, “Okay. Well, we’re gonna do this for you.” Um, and they decided to uproot to Colorado Springs. Um, Mike’s brother, Greg, got him a job as a mechanic at a car dealership, and it paid a lot more than what he did in El Paso, so that was like a selling point as well that he was gonna make a lot more money up there. And because he was the family’s breadwinner, they were like, “Well, okay. I guess that answers that question.” And they went up there so that he could start this new job, and they uprooted. Um, according to those who knew them, they stayed a very tight-knit normal family as far as people knew, um, even though financially they, you know, were much better off now. But in high school, Dawn, one of the daughters, began to struggle with her grades, and she started acting out. She started getting in trouble – um, very, you know, typical teenage stuff. And Mike tried to guide her kind of the way he had his younger brothers, but Dawn rebelled against that, and they really chafed and started to, um– I don’t know– 

Em: Butt heads. 

Christine: Butt heads, and yeah. There was, there was now conflict in the home and tension. 

Em: What, what was their age gap? Because he was pretty young, right when they–? 

Christine: Yeah, so he was 21, and the kids were about– They were under six, and– 

Em: Okay, so– 

Christine: Yeah, so, uh, 15 years. 

Em: Okay. For a second I was like, “Is there–?” That makes sense. That feels parental, a 15-year age difference. 

Christine: Yeah, I think it’s enough– I think it’s at least enough where if you met this person also at age six that they would seem like an adult to you from the beginning. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: But, I mean, as someone who has a stepdad who’s quite young, especially compared to my biological dad, uh, it is a– There is a weird– I feel like there can be, sometimes, a weird dynamic when you get older of like, “You’re not even that–“ When you realize like, “Wait, you were 21 when you became my dad?” You know what I mean? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: There can be that kind of realization I think. But yeah, I don’t, I don’t know, um, if it was just because Dawn was rebellious by nature. I don’t know if she just really didn’t get along with him anymore. I don’t really know, but there was conflict and tension in the house. Um, and so as soon as she graduated high school, she moved out and left home, and she started kinda doing that thing where she moved from place to place, living with different boyfriends, um, and struggled with substance use disorder. And her family really worried about her, but it was just– like they couldn’t save her. Like they couldn’t connect with her. They didn’t know what to do. And Mike just felt like there was nothing he could do, even though she was, to him, his oldest daughter. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: That’s kind of how he– I mean, that’s how he saw her. That’s who she was, and he still felt like she had kind of just slipped his grasp somehow. So he had no choice but to focus on life at home with his wife, Sandra, and their youngest. Mike lived a routine life. Um, it was a life he liked. He worked hard at his job. He was very well-liked, very respected. Um, he was also very much like a, a, like a neighborhood guy where, you know, he’d be out working on the car and chat up everybody who walked past. Um, everybody in the car also said like if they had car trouble, he would just come check it out to be nice and then would take the time to explain it, and, you know, he would just help people out mechanically with their cars for free and would volunteer at Catholic church on Saturdays and Sundays and just very much like the, the guy on call if a neighbor needed anything, like help with anything. 

Em: A, a, a pillar of the community, ironically. 

Christine: And– A pillar. [singing to a short tune] ♪ I was waiting for someone to say it. ♪♪ [speaking] Yes, uh, precisely. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So in 2013, Mike and Sandra celebrated their 27th wedding anniversary. And 33-year-old Dawn had recently moved back in temporarily, and her younger sister still lived at home. So I don’t know the exact age between her and her sister, but it was probably three, four years, three, four years. Something like that. 

Em: Okay. Cool. 

Christine: Um, so now they’re all under the same roof again. And Mike did his best to get along with Dawn, even though they had had that kind of separation for a while. And, uh, the neighbors didn’t really– As much as they knew, uh– As much as they knew Mike, they didn’t really know Sandra that much, um, but they said they had often seen her, er, seen her with Mike on the porch, having an iced tea, having a drink in the evenings. 

Em: Love that. 

Christine: Seemed like very normal, very happy neighbors. 

Em: You know, when I was, um– One of my dreams in a dream house is to have a wraparound porch that I can sit in a rocking chair and drink lemonade. 

Christine: Yep. Yep. 

Em: And I always wanted that– like the slow rock, and someone walks by and just go, “Howdy, Bob. Hey, Bob.” 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: You just, just know all your neighbors, and it’s just the slow– 

Christine: And then you say kinda the same line, kinda develop an inside joke line with somebody, and just– [clicks tongue] 

Em: Ugh! Nothing gets me like the idea of a wraparound porch. Ooh, and it’s raining a little bit. Ooh! Ooh! 

Christine: Ooh! When you got, you got a blanket on your lap. Oh, it’s so nice. 

Em: Ugh. Please. Oh my god. I– Mark my words. One day, I will have a wraparound porch. One day, I’ll have a porch. 

Christine: Wow. Now, that’ll be the day. 

Em: Oh, man. Okay. Sorry, I heard, I heard “sitting on the porch together,” and I was like, “That just sounds like a lovely little fantasy.” 

Christine: Now I’m daydreaming. 

Em: Man, a Victorian mansion. Ugh. With a wraparound por– Please! Oh! 

Christine: Ugh! 

Em: Mama Mia! Okay. 

Christine: Say less. 

Em: What’s, what’s an, what’s an element of your dream house, Christine? 

Christine: [sighs] I don’t know. As you know, I’m v– getting into my shadow work, and I’m like finally figuring out that I don’t know anything about myself. So these kind of questions– I never know the answer. What do I want in a dream house? Um, definitely– But see I have– So a balcony, I like– 

Em: Ugh! 

Christine: –because I can see people; they can’t see me. [laughs] So– And we do have a balcony here, and it is delightful ’cause I have my bird feeder, and I can drink out there and do other things with my pen– 

Em: And you can sit on a rocking chair and drink lemonade out there. 

Christine: And I have my rocking chair, and I can drink my quote unquote “lemonade,” which is just red wine. And I could just watch the neighbors, and no one can see me. It’s really nice. 

Em: Very jealous of you. 

Christine: It’s really delightful. Well, come sit with me. 

Em: Sit a spell. 

Christine: I’m all– [laughs] Sit a spell. I’m here all by my lonesome, you know. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, okay. So that’s kind of what they were considered, uh, by neighbors, just the normal sit on, on your porch in the evenings type of family. Now we head to February 13th, 2013. This is the day before Valentine’s Day. Sandra and Dawn took Angie to the hospital while Mike was at work. Now, Sandra’s the wife. Dawn is the eldest, and Angie is the younger sister. So Sandra and Dawn take Dawn’s younger sister, Angie, to the hospital while Mike is at work. Now, we know that, but we don’t know if this was like an emergency or just an appointment or an infusion. We don’t know like what was going on, um, but we do know that they did go to the hospital that day for some reason. And meanwhile, Sandra stayed at the hospital with Angie into the evening, while Dawn arrived home around 7 p.m. So Dawn arrives at the house. She finds the front door open, and she opens the door and shouts inside, “Daddy?” 

Em: [sighs] Oh. 

Christine: And Mike should have been home from work, but there’s no response. And as s– 

Em: This is like the beginning of a Fievel Goes West, isn’t it? 

Christine: Oh my god. This really– Don’t say that to me. Now my chest hurts. Ow. So inside the house, as she looks around, it’s chaos. It looks like someone has just destroyed the place– 

Em: [sighs] Oh. 

Christine: –ransacked the cabinets, the drawers. Furniture is on the ground. There’s spray paint graffiti on the walls. And so she calls out for her dad again on the way to her parents’ bedroom. But when she sees that all of their bedding had been yanked into a pile on the floor, something about that like really freaks her out, and she backs out of the house and calls 911 to report a break-in. And she’s like, “Something’s so wrong. Something terrible’s happened.” They tell her to wait outside in case someone’s still in the house, and they arrive a few minutes later with their weapons drawn. And they do a sweep of the house. They don’t find anyone inside, but they do find the body of Mike, who was wrapped up in his bed sheets, dead on the floor of his bedroom. 

Em: Mm. [sighs] 

Christine: So the scene outside the house was chaotic. All these neighbors are, of course, like, “What’s going on?” you know, and you and I are sitting on our rocking chairs, like texting Blaise, “Tell us what’s happening over there. We don’t wanna get up.” But– 

Em: Totally. 

Christine: Someone’s telling us what’s going on from afar. Um, but yeah. The scene was chaotic. All these neighbors are coming to figure out what is going on. Um, first responders come and try to investigate if this was a burglary. Uh, Sandra arrives and asks to go inside and see her husband. And an officer says, “You can’t enter because it’s a crime scene.” They said, “All I can tell you is that we have an unknown deceased victim in the house.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And Sandra nearly collapsed, and she started to scream, crying, “Why? Why?” 

Em: I can’t– I just can’t imagine. 

Christine: So Mike’s brothers stood outside with Sandra and the crowd, just hoping for any sort of information or answers. And as they took in the scene, they noticed a man who just seemed out of place and did not look familiar. And he looked out of place because it was February in Colorado, in below freezing temperatures, but he was wearing a T-shirt and shorts– 

Em: Oh, forget it. Oh my god. 

Christine: –and just standing there. And his appearance already made him stick out, but then he started acting weird too. He approached one of the brothers– Remember, this guy’s trying to figure out if his oldest brother has just been like murdered or is hurt or what. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So this guy in a T-shirt and shorts walks up to the brother and says, “Can you give me a ride home?” 

Em: Mental illness. Has to be. 

Christine: And the guy goes, “Who are you?” 

Em: Uh-huh. 

Christine: “And why do you need a ride? And what– Like what do you want?” [laughs] And he says, “Oh, I’m friends with Mike’s daughters.” And so he asked around everybody in the crowd like, “Can someone give me a ride?” And everyone’s like, “No, who the hell are you?” And so he calls a taxi service and leaves on his own. 

Em: I’m– Mental illness. right? 

Christine: Just so weird. So weird. So weird 

Em: Becau– Uh, first like– That– First of all, my– My first thought: if this were a Law and Order episode, I’d be like, “Well, that’s not the killer ’cause it’s too obvious.” 

Christine: ’Cause it’s too obvious. Right? 

Em: But like– 

Christine: Well, unfortunately, life is sometimes not stranger than fiction. [laughs] 

Em: Wow, really? That’s– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: But again, has to be something not totally clicking up there for him to be like, “Oh, I’m just going to stick out like a sore thumb, then get in everyone’s face, ask a question to the distressed, and like bother everyone.” 

Christine: I would argue– 

Em: Or is that part of his game? 

Christine: I would argue mental illness and drugs. 

Em: A-ha. Okay. 

Christine: Mental illness plus drugs equals not the most logical of decisions-making processes, um. 

Em: Got it. Okay, I was like, “You’re not, you’re not–“ Look, you’re also catching me like in the heat of this fucking CEO Luigi shooting situation. 

Christine: Oh! Oh, oh, oh, oh. Yes. 

Em: And so I’ve been watching someone who– 

Christine: The conspiracy– Yeah, yeah. 

Em: –may or may not be like a mastermind. And then I meet this guy, and I’m like, “Okay. Well, this is no Luigi.” 

Christine: I know. I know. It really doesn’t strike the same chord when you hear kind of the story. 

Em: Right. Right. 

Christine: Which makes it almost– I mean, not that it makes it sadder or different or whatever, but it’s just like– Wow, sometimes it’s just like people do shit– 

Em: Just right in your face. 

Christine: –and just– right in front of you. And it’s just shocking. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, yeah. Yeah. It is. And so he’s walking around a– because I had the same thought, Em. I was like, “Well, that’s just silly. Like obviously that’s not the guy.” 

Em: Like red herring all the way. 

Christine: Red herring, exactly. Like it’s either too obvious or like who would be that stupid, you know. But then you’re right, it– 

Em: It’s almost like that would be the, the move as like, “Well, I’m gonna do the thing that’s the most obvious because then no one will think it’s me ’cause it’s too obvious.” 

Christine: Right! That’s what it feels like the plot would be in the SVU episode or something. Like “I was trying to prove I’m not the killer.” Like what are you talking about? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, but yeah. It’s nothing so complicated. Just unfortunately just, you know, one plus one equals two. He’s wandering around, asking, um, for a ride. Everyone’s like, “Who the hell are you?” Um, he says, “I’m friends with Mike’s daughters.” Nobody gives him a ride. He calls a taxi. So detectives start speaking with Mike’s family. He’s got these brothers. He’s got his wife and his daughters. And they ask if Mike had any enemies who might want to hurt him because it did look like a burglary gone wrong, um, but they wanted to see if anyone maybe would have targeted him. Um, there was a window broken from the outside into the basement, and somebody had pried open Mike’s gun cabinet by force and stolen a weapon. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, the graffiti on the walls w-was suggestive of gang activity, and there had been several breaks– break-ins in Colorado Springs recently, which, as far as I know from just like reading and the news, is like a pretty conservative like, uh, wealthy area or at least like a more– a wealthier part of, uh, the US, and I think pretty Christian. Um, and so I think that this kind of gang activity was sort of another– well, was an actual red herring this time that this guy tried to plant– [laughs] Yeah. 

Em: I was gonna say the, the, the graffiti spray paint is really like the biggest curveball for me. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s a curveball. Yeah, ’cause that was just a red herring. 

Em: Got it. 

Christine: That one was the red herring, and I think he thought, “I’ve done enough. I’ve thrown them off the scent.” 

Em: “I’ve, I’ve gone too far.” Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. “I’ve thrown them off the scent. Now I need a ride home.” [laughs] 

Em: “i”m perfectly at, at the right distance of the sun. I have not flown too close.” 

Christine: Right. Right, right. Uh, “I’m starting–“ 

Em: “No one will ever see it coming.” 

Christine: “My wings are starting to soften, but I’m gonna drop back down and ask if anyone can drive me home now–“ 

Em: Right, right. 

Christine: “–’cause I’m tired.” Uh, yeah, so there had been several break-ins, so they’re thinking like maybe this is gang activity, but maybe somebody targeted Mike. They’re trying to figure it out, um, but it did seem as if Mike was home at the wrong time and that it could have just been a violent reaction to a burglary gone wrong. But, of course, investigators need to look into it. Um, one of Mike’s brothers said that Mike’s only enemy– Okay, imagine this conversation. So they’re, they’re basically interviewing Mike’s brothers, and one of them says, “Oh, he does have an enemy.” And they say, “Who?” And he says, “His only enemy is his oldest daughter, Dawn.” 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: And they go, “Oh! So like your niece.” And he’s like, “Yeah. I believe–“ This is the brother. So this– You know, this is the sibling– Of his siblings, this is like the outspoken one who’s like, “I’ll say it if no one else will say it.” 

Em: Right, right. 

Christine: He says, “I believe Dawn was stealing Mike’s belongings with her friends, and when Mike came home and caught her, things became violent.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And so that was what this guy said, and they were like, “Whoa. We did not even pursue that avenue yet.” So the police discover that Dawn did have previous drug-related charges against her, so they brought her in for questioning, but she insisted she knew nothing about the break-in. And she had an alibi because she had been in the hospital with her mom and sister that day. So detectives warned her that they would solve this case and that it would be wise for her to tell them the truth before someone else did– 

Em: Mhm. 

Christine: –which feels like I’m in trouble with my parents. Like– 

Em: Totally. 

Christine: Or with like a teacher like, “You better tell me before someone else tells me. Then you’re really in trouble.” [laughs] It’s like [nervous squeal] 

Em: Trust me, nothing has ever scared me more in my life than– 

Christine: So scary. 

Em: To this day, like there are moments where like I want to lie, and then I’m like, “But what if someone else tells?” You know like– 

Christine: Oh my god. Oh my god. The fear. 

Em: As– I had, I had something happen recently where– It’s been resolved since, but I was like– I was really thinking like a white lie would really get me out of this, and I’m like, “Mmm. It’s too risky. I–“ It like– 

Christine: I know. I know. 

Em: So that fear has been perfectly instilled as a kid. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: It– Perfectly instilled. 

Christine: Like think about how much worse it’ll be– 

Em: There’s enough– Oh my god. 

Christine: “Think about how much worse it’ll be when I find out later.” Like [quietly screams] ah! Okay. 

Em: For some reason, the only thought in my head is like the slow punch of like, of like a bully on the recess– 

Christine: Oh yeah. Like a wind-up. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah, it’s like, “You better tell me now ’cause it’ll be much worse later if you–“ 

Christine: You better– 

Em: “–if someone else tells me.” 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. “I’ll give you something to cry about.” Um, yeah. So basically they– the police tell her this, which apparently does not phase her because she says, “I did tell you the truth. Bye,” and leaves. 

Em: [laughs] Okay, girl. 

Christine: So she was not as afraid of the world as we are, I guess, but, uh, Mike’s brothers are like, “Hey, by the way, there was this fucking weird guy in a T-shirt at the crime scene.” And of course, all the brothers are like, “We saw all this weird shit happening, and we’ll tell the police.”And so the police are like, “Okay, thank you. ’Cause no one else seems to be telling us this.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So now they know about the guy. Uh, and another brother, Chris, revealed a different detail that he remembered later, which is that he had called Mike, his landline, that day at 6 p.m. to talk to Mike, but a random man answered the phone. 

Em: Did he say, “Can you give me a ride?” 

Christine: [laughs] This part got me ’cause I was like, “You have got to be fucking kidding me. Like really?” So he answers the fucking phone, and he says, “Wait, where’s Mike?” And he goes, “Oh, he’s in the shower.” Like what? Like why would you be there? 

Em: Yeah, why wouldn’t you just– 

Christine: Who are you? 

Em: Why wouldn’t you just not answer? 

Christine: You’ll– We’ll get to that. ’Cause I did also– I said, “You better have a reason.” And technically he may have, but it, it did feel like, “Wow, you’re the dumbest criminal of all time.” And I know that there are so many of them, but like this one just hurts me. I’m like, “Guy. Come on.” 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: So yeah, he called, and he realized later like, “Shit. That must have been my brother’s killer that I talked to.” So like he called the police and said, “I have to add this to the story.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And so on February 20th – this is a week later – an obituary was published locally, which said Mike’s family would “miss his big heart, sense of humor, and all around amazing man.” And it announced a private viewing for his family and other invited mourners to attend a memorial mass at the church that Mike had always volunteered at. But meanwhile, investigators were looking for the strange T-shirted man, uh– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –that Mike’s brothers had reported. And they– 

Em: Mr. Graffiti. 

Christine: Mr. Graffiti. Mr. Answer-The-Phone-When-You’re– You’re-Not-On-It. 

Em: Mr. I-Need-A-Ride. 

Christine: Yeah, Mr. I-Need-A-Ride. And, uh– Mr. Worldwide– Nope, that’s slander. I didn’t mean Pitbull. He’s not part of this. 

Em: Mr. He’s-In-The-Shower. 

Christine: He’s-In-The-Shower. Wasn’t me. Meanwhile, investigators were looking for the man. They suspected he was the same person Chris had spoken to on the phone because like wh-what are the odds that two random weird men are around, like acting strange in this small neighborhood. And so they’re assuming it’s the same guy, but they don’t really have any real leads. So they start contacting local taxi companies because he took a taxi after nobody would give him a fucking ride. 

Em: That’s totally true. 

Christine: Imagine asking the brother of the man you just murdered to give you a ride home and assuming he would. 

Em: I’m telling you– 

Christine: It’s just crazy. 

Em: It– Like immediately, I was like “mental illness.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: First of all, you’re not– I– Drugs totally makes sense as well, but I was like you’re in Colorado in February in shorts? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And now you’re not able to read the room. I was like, “Something’s amiss, for sure.” 

Christine: Yes. Yes, big time. And so you’re right – it, it could be a number of things, but I think, um, definitely mental illness and drugs are probably the two biggest culprits here. Um, but yeah. So they’re calling taxi companies, hoping like, “Oh, did you pick up some guy in a T-shirt who was acting kinda weird?” And, uh, miraculously, one company said, “Yeah, we did. We picked somebody up at that address.” 

Em: They were like, “Thank god, you ha– you asked us ’cause we’ve been talking about this weird fucking guy all day.” 

Christine: “Oh, we were– we’ve been trying to figure out who the hell this guy is.” Yeah. 

Em: You know whoever got that phone call at the taxi company went, “Please hold.” And then went– 

Christine: [stage whispering] “Guys! Guys! Guys!” [laughs] Yeah. 

Em: “Dude, literally that fucking guy we’ve been talking about all day? Someone’s asking about him right– The cops are asking for him.” 

Christine: Like, “Put it on speaker. Put it on speaker.” Yeah. 

Em: You know that was like the breakroom talk of the day, for sure. 

Christine: And that’s what happened. They finally– They called the right company, and they said, “Yeah, that’s absolutely somebody we picked up at the house.” And so they were like, “Okay, can we have the number he called from?” So they’re basically like piecing this together. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: They get the cell phone he used to call the cab, um, and they figure out that it’s this 34-year-old guy named Tommy Wright. And, um, he had actually been arrested only days later for auto theft charges in another town. So I guess he couldn’t find a ride and decided to make his own and took someone’s car. 

Em: This guy has some car troubles. 

Christine: He’s got a fixation, my friend. He’s got a– He’s got some troubles indeed. And so he is arrested in a different town for the auto theft charges, and this is right about when, um, they are linking u– him up to his phone number. So Colorado Springs Police tried to question him about being present at the Barajas’ house on February 13th, but he gave them nothing, which is like the first smart move this guy’s done, I would argue, um, is say nothing at all. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And, without any insight from Tommy his– h-himself, they turned to a warrant, and they decided to search his apartment. And that is where they discovered a .45 caliber handgun matching the weapon used to kill Mike. 

Em: Ooh! 

Christine: Easy-peasy. 

Em: Whoopsies. 

Christine: So Sandra was shocked. She said that she knew Tommy’s name, and even though she had never met him before, she knew about him because Dawn had actually brought him over before. It was a friend of her eldest daughter’s. And so remember when he said to the brothers, “Oh, I’m a friend of the daughter’s”? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: He was– He’s Dawn’s friend. And so Sandra knew of him and said, “Wait, what the fuck? Why would this guy come over and kill my husband? I don’t understand. He’s only been to our house once. Like what’s going on? Why would Dawn even bring a guy like that to our house?” Just like totally beside herself. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So once forensic analysis matched the gun discovered in Tommy’s apartment to the bullets recovered from Mike’s remains and confirmed that it was the same gun, uh, they scheduled a grand jury hearing for May 17th to indict Tommy for first-degree murder. However, this hearing was postponed last minute because Tommy told the detectives he actually wanted to give them a full confession. 

Em: Oh. Lucky everybody. 

Christine: Yeah. Lucky everybody. Yeah. So in exchange, he requested several things. 

Em: Of course. 

Christine: He said, “I’ll give you the, the truth.” 

Em: “I need, first, a ride. Second–“ [laughs] 

Christine: First– [laughs] A ride. [laughs] Oh my god. Yeah, a ride. Okay, he requests several things, including a ride and also Facebook access. 

Em: Right. [laughs] Oh, oh, really. Okay. 

Christine: No, that’s real. That one’s real. Uh, he requested Facebook access, and they said, “No.” And so he ultimately accepted pop and cigarettes. 

Em: Wow. Steep decline on the negotiations. 

Christine: Not even a ri– Not even– Yeah, he’s not good at negotiating, just like me. He just caves, you know? 

Em: It’s like, “Maybe some fucking pants since it’s winter.” But okay. Sure. 

Christine: Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. Certainly not that. “Some pants.” [laughs] Yeah, like the bottoms of my shorts maybe. 

Em: Yeah, please. 

Christine: So basically they said, “Fine. We’ll get you cigarettes and a fucking Pepsi if you tell us what happened.” And he says, ”Alright, it’s a deal.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And, uh, he confesses to stealing a gun from Mike’s gun cabinet, lying in wait in the bedroom until Mike got home, and then ambushing him in the dark. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: He also said that he answered the landline phone and spoke to one of Mike’s brothers [laughs in disbelief] after the murder. And then when the– Mike’s brother came after th– to the crime scene, he was like, “Oh, you’re Mike’s brother that I talked to on the phone when I was killing him. Can I get a ride?” Like this guy just is out of his mind. So yes, he says, “I did answer the phone because, uh, I talked to Mike’s brother when I answered. And that was after the murder, so I lied and said he was in the shower.” So Chris, the brother who had called and been on the phone, was supposed to pick Mike up to go to Ash Wednesday mass. And so he drove to Mike’s house and knocked on the door, and no one answered. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: And he was like, “Okay, whatever.” So he left, so he wouldn’t be late for mass. He had no idea Tommy was inside, watching him– 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: –having already murdered his brother and waiting for him to leave. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Isn’t that so dark? 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And Tommy said he did indeed kill Mike, but the break-in was staged because Tommy was already in the house that day, like hiding out. And– 

Em: I’m sure everyone was like, “Yeah, we knew that. Thank you.” 

Christine: “We figured that part out. Thanks a lot.” 

Em: “The graffiti spray paint made no sense, so thanks.” 

Christine: Yeah. “That was me, guys.” 

Em: “Yeah–“ 

Christine: “Yeah, we also figured that out. Thank you.” 

Em: “Your genius contribution before the actual illegal shit. Thank you.” 

Christine: Yes, exactly. Thank you so much for that. So Tommy said he had to stage the break-in because he was already in the house that day with Mike’s family that morning. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And they said, “Pardon? What do you mean?” And he said, “Well, okay. Here’s the thing.” So the backstory of Tommy. Tommy met Dawn and Angie, the sisters, by chance one day at a 7-Eleven, much like Mike had met Sandra at that gas station where she worked many years ago. 

Em: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Another little pattern here. 

Em: ‘Kay. 

Christine: They befriended Mike. They invited him back to their home (this was like ages ago) where the trio used drugs together, and Angie claimed, during this friendship, that Mike had been sexually abusing her – as in her stepfather had been sexually abusing her. 

Em: Oh shit. 

Christine: Tommy said he was horrified by this, and he had actually once dated a woman whose young child had been sexually abused. And Tommy said he witnessed firsthand how much trauma it caused, so he just instantly hated Angie’s stepdad and, um, Dawn’s stepdad for, for sexually abusing her. 

Em: Mm. And was this tr– Do we know if that’s true? 

Christine: We, we shall get to it. I– We shall get to it. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I think I shall a– I think I will answer your question. I believe I will. 

Em: Okay, okay, okay. 

Christine: So he hated Mike for inflicting that upon his own daughter. And the sisters repeatedly asked Tommy if he knew anyone who could “take care” of Mike for them. So Tommy said that on February 13th, he finally agreed to kill Mike for them in exchange for their pickup truck and $5,000 in cash. 

Em: So for a ride. Literally. 

Christine: For a ride! Oh my god, you’re so– Em. 

Em: This guy loves to go from here to there. He l– 

Christine: This man [laughs] 

Em: He’ll do anything from– He’ll do anything for A to B, I’m telling you. 

Christine: He’s always in transit. He’s always on route. You know what I’m saying? 

Em: This way and thatta way. 

Christine: He’s always on route. 

Em: I’m– [laughs] I’m telling you. 

Christine: Oh, man. That guy. So he says, “I’ll– I need a ride though and $5,000.” But, according to Tommy, that morning, Angie, the younger sister, was nearly unresponsive from drug use, so she actually didn’t even get involved that day. She was like comatose basically. 

Em: Mm. Weirdly like the best alibi you could have at that point. 

Christine: Yeah, the lu– Right, exactly. Exactly. Instead, detectives were shocked to learn that someone else, uh, got involved, and that, my friend, is none other than Sandra. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: ’Cause I did wonder in the beginning when like people were gathering, and all of a sudden, he shows up. He’s like, “Can I get a ride?” I was like, “Where the hell’s his wife? And like isn’t– Why aren’t we learning more about her?” 

Christine: Well, remember? She stood there and screamed, “Why? Why?” and tried to break her way into the house. And they said– 

Em: Oh, she did say that. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, and they said, “We can’t tell you anything. We have– All we can say is there’s one, uh, potential ho– murder victim here” or something, and she like collapsed and started screaming. 

Em: Right. Okay, sure. 

Christine: And that was why nobody ever, ever, ever considered her because she was such a good actor that they were like either– like s– they were taken aback by this, I think. 

Em: So she– Okay. I’ll– Okay, go for it. Go for it. 

Christine: So Tommy and Dawn got help making the murder plan from Sandra. Throughout the entire investigation, even as the daughter, Dawn, was questioned as a suspect, Sandra was never once considered even a person of interest. Like not even someone who– 

Em: Jesus. Shooting the breeze over there. 

Christine: She’s having– She’s drinking her iced tea on the front fucking porch. And they had never even thought of her as having any intel about how he was killed. And so the police on-scene really saw Sandra’s reaction, and it seemed so genuine to them that they really– and they took it a-at, took it at face value. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And the obituary published just days later talked about their marriage and Mike’s devotion to Sandra. And it was just difficult to imagine that she was so convincingly mourning Mike among his family and friends after having like orchestrated the whole thing. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: But Tommy insisted that she helped hatch the scheme to stage a break-in. He said that they made the plan together, and then the women went to the hospital as an alibi. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And as soon as they left, Tommy began staging the scene, spray-painting the walls. Um, and the women were supposed to pick Tommy up after he killed Mike. But when Chris called and Tommy answered, assuming it was Sandra calling– 

Em: Ohh, shit. 

Christine: –to say like, “We’re on the way to pick you up,” it was Chris. 

Em: So he fucked up their– 

Christine: And he’s like, “He’s in the shower.” [laughs] 

Em: He f– He fucked up their story. 

Christine: Fucked up the plan, yep. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And so he panicked after that, and he ran, instead of waiting for the ride. So he panics. He runs out of the house ’cause he’s like, “Uh-oh. This guy’s– His brother knows someone’s here. This is–“ You know, he just panics. He hides nearby for a while, and then, uh, he returns shortly later to the origin of our story where he is trying to find a ride home at the crime scene. [laughs] 

Em: Oh, that’s– Is that why– That’s why he was just standing there. 

Christine: So this idiot hid for like hours and then came back and said, “Can someone drive me home?” 

Em: He couldn’t like go next door at like where there wasn’t–? 

Christine: Literally couldn’t walk a half a mile away and pretend to bum a ride from someone else? I mean– 

Em: He couldn’t like call a cab somewhere else or like hail a bus or something? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: What are you talking about? 

Christine: What are you doing? 

Em: So was he on– Do we know he was on drugs during this? Because this sounds– 

Christine: I do not know. I do not think that I know that. I do not know. I do not know. 

Em: Okay. Yeah. I– That, that’s wild though. 

Christine: Or if I do, we’ll find out together ’cause I forget. 

Em: Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, but as far as I know– as far as I recall, um, they don’t really get into that. I can only assume if one of them– if they all three are active drug users and hatched a plan on drugs to kill this person and, uh, one of them is like unconscious in the hospital due to drug use, I can only guess that maybe he could be on something. But I don’t know. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: There’s no, there’s no hard evidence for that as far as I know. 

Em: Alright. 

Christine: Um, so because– This is just how this always goes. Uh, he’s explaining the story to the police, and they’re like, “You know what? It, it adds up. Like even though– like we had never looked at Sandra as a possible suspect, the way he’s explaining this, it does align, down to the phone call and everything.” Um, but they needed more than just his word against Sandra’s. So what they did was they had Tommy call Sandra secretly with the police– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –pretending he wasn’t with the police, and he led her to admit on the phone that she owed him money for killing Mike at her request. And she said, “Alright. I’ll bring you $500. Meet me at Walmart.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And that is how the police knew for sure he was not lying and Sandra had been involved in having her husband killed. 

Em: Gotcha. 

Christine: So they all took a little road trip to Walmart, and they arrested her on the spot. And they had the recording of her basically saying, “I’ll give you $500 since you killed him.” And that was pretty much all the jury needed, you know. 

Em: Dang. 

Christine: Uh, it was pre-pretty obvious. Her trial began February 4th, 2014. Um, and, you know, her defense team, of course, tried to paint her as a victim of Dawn, her own daughter, who was allegedly like this dangerous sociopathic manipulator and Sandra was terrified of her own daughter. But the prosecution then played that phone call, uh, in which Sandra was like, “Yeah, I’ll give you $500 bucks for killing him.” And people were like, “Mm, nice try.” 

Em: Whoopsies. Which like was she gonna let her like kids go down for this, and she was just gonna–? 

Christine: [sighs] I don’t know that she even realized that they would be on the hook. Like I think these people just didn’t even have enough foresight to realize like– 

Em: But like if four people are involved, I imagine one of them will crack. 

Christine: Oh, you know what? That– Yeah. I, I, I wouldn’t be surprised if she at least let Dawn take the fall because it sounds like the way people describe their relationship is that like– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –uh, Dawn kind of ran the ship. [laughs] So I don’t, I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s true. Um, but I honestly believe m– I mean, who knows. Maybe Dawn would have said, “Nope, my mom was involved, and I have proof.” You know, maybe they could frame each other. Who knows? 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But, um, yeah. So she goes to trial, uh, and, you know, they try to say she’s a victim. But they play the phone call, and then testimony on behalf of Mike also tore apart the claim that he was abusing anybody, including– especially his own daughters. Um, so that seemed to have been just a total fabrication. Uh, the, the sexual abuse seemed to be a total fabrication. 

Em: Mm-hmm. Okay. 

Christine: So instead the prosecution presented evidence and witness testimony that Sandra had actually destroyed her family’s finances through years of gambling. 

Em: Ooh. 

Christine: And that’s where all this pressure was– that’s why she even was involved in the first place. 

Em: So in a way, she’s the family annihilator when it’s usually men. 

Christine: Well, family annihilator means that you kill the kids too, like all the kids and the– 

Em: Oh. I thought it was like when– Well, okay. I got it wrong. [laughs] Sorry. 

Christine: Yeah. No, no. I mean, it’s, it’s– Yeah, I’m trying to think back, but it’s usually when you basically massacre your own family ’cause you think it’s better than them living like in whatever state of financial distress or despair– 

Em: Mm, mm. 

Christine: –or you know, usually finances, but, um. 

Em: I think because of that, that’s why I thought like– 

Christine: Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. 

Em: –“Oh, if, if he finds out about the finances, then I’m done, so might as well get him out of here.” 

Christine: Well, actually, it wasn’t even that. It was just for life insurance to pay it off. You know? 

Em: Ooh. Man. 

Christine: Yeah, um. 

Em: That’s rough. 

Christine: Yeah. So Mike told his brother– So I mean, Mike knew about all the gambling. Sorry, to clarify. Mike knew about all this. Because Mike’s brothers knew about all this. So Mike told his brothers that their house was in foreclosure. Um, apparently, they had already filed for bankruptcy. And if Mike were killed, Sandra and their daughters would receive life, life insurance as well as retirement payments and other financial support from his job. Um, and in Mike’s obituary, the family also requested monetary donations instead of flowers. Wow, isn’t that bold? 

Em: Dang. 

Christine: The prosecution argued that Sandra and Dawn wanted to kill Mike to fund their gambling and drug use, so two, two things there. 

Em: Bada bing and– 

Christine: And– 

Em: –bada boom. 

Christine: Bada boom. Sandra was found guilty of first-degree murder, a conviction which carried a sentence of life in prison without parole in Colorado. And so Dawn saw that happen and decided not risk the same sentence, so she pled guilty to second-degree murder and was sentenced to 45 years in prison. Tommy also pled guilty to second-degree murder and received a 40-year sentence. The Barajas’ neighbors were totally shocked by the plot but admitted that they were relieved that it wasn’t just like a random burglar running around town– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –um, and that it wasn’t somebody still on the loose. 

Em: I get it. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. I get it too. I– That would be your, your instinct, right? To be like, “I don’t– I hope I’m not next.” 

Em: I mean, if our next-door neighbor, if our next-door neighbor got murdered, I’d go, “Oh fuck. Like I’m in big trouble.” And then if I found out it was like a family thing, I’d go, “Okay. At least–“ [laughs] 

Christine: “Not my problem. At least not– at least I’m not part of it.” Right? 

Em: Yeah, yeah. 

Christine: Mike’s family was glad that justice was served against Sandra, Dawn, and Tommy, but, of course, that’s only so much that you can do to make up for something like this. Um, one person wrote about– When they were talking about just remembrances– Um, on Mike’s obituary website, there were like these memorial entries, and people like to leave kind of anecdotes. And one person wrote about a winter day when they were scraping the ice off their car, and Mike appeared and told them to get in the car and stay warm. And then he scraped the whole car off for them and said, “Have a good day at work,” and just let them go. 

Em: [sighs] Aw. 

Christine: And that was the kind of guy he was. He was an actual pillar of the community. So you’re either– 

Em: Well, yeah as I– 

Christine: –murdered or a murderer, I guess. [laughs] That’s the only options. 

Em: He finally breaks the, the glass ceiling on that, I guess. 

Christine: Yeah, good for him. He breaks the mold, the pillar mold. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Maybe this pillar has just some nice curly cues on the top. 

Em: Maybe. 

Christine: You know, it’s just a little fancier than the others. I don’t know. Um, but yeah, so that’s how Mike will be remembered: just a really kind, actually nice, gentle guy who, uh– 

Em: Got mixed up in a weird family. 

Christine: –got mixed up in the wrong family. And, uh, you know, it’s just too bad. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So, uh, that’s that story. 

Em: Oy. [sighs] That’s a rough one. 

Christine: Now it’s time to discuss all our deepest darkest secrets on the Yappy Hour. 

Em: Mm! That’s right. 

Christine: I’ll open this bad boy. [begins to unwrap plastic covering conversation card box] 

Em: Uh, well, yeah. I guess– And this is the last one before Christmas? The last, uh– 

Christine: I believe so. Yes. 

Em: Well, happy Christmas Eve episode to everybody. And Christine is using her teeth. 

Christine: No. 

Em: That always gets me going in the worst way. 

Christine: I’m so sorry. That really is an unpleasant– I’m so sorry. Um, I know that that auditorially that was really bad for everybody. Um, if you want to find us, go to andthatswhywedrink.com. If you want tickets to our live show, andthatswhywedrink.com/live. Uh, you can find our book anywhere fine books are sold. You can join us on Patreon, patreon.com/atwwdpodcast, which is also our handle for all our social media. And, uh, we’re excited to see you out there in the world. 

Em: And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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