E454 Graveyard Kids and Barney Scandals

TOPICS: GRAVEYARDS, HELEN BRACH

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Em hugging Barney that’s head looks deflated and flat.

Front visual of deflated head Barney with Baby Bop leaning in front. Barney looks like all his hopes and dreams have been crushed just like his poor costume head.

Black eyed… Barney? Em in their graduation cap and gown posing next to a terrifying Barney costume that’s eyes are giant black circles.

Leona from her visit to the graveyard with Christine.

It’s Episode 454 and we refuse to be the lid for your candy corn pot. This week Emothy and the Graveyard Kid have teamed up to tell us all about graveyards and the history of various activities that have been done in them. Then Christine was feeling inspired by the Halloween season and brought us a candy crime with the disappearance of Helen Brach, heiress of the Brach candy fortune. And do you want to join our spooky cemetery book club? …and that’s why we drink!

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Transcript

**Please note, Em's pronouns are they/them. This episode contains content, submitted and shared by Em, that uses their deadname and incorrect pronouns. This content reflects Em's journey at that point in time.**

[intro music] 

Em: Welcome to another rousing episode of And That’s Why We Drink, where compared to Christine’s camera, I have the biggest head in the world. Um– [laughs] 

[On the left of the screen, Christine’s camera is a few feet away from her and set on an angle as she sits with her laptop in her lap. On the right of the screen, Em sits directly in front of their camera, looking in that direction as well as they talk.] 

Christine: Mm! [laughs] Okay. I was thinking that– 

Em: Look at her itty-b– your– Look, your– My eyeball is the size of your head. 

Christine: Okay. I was thinking that– Now, here’s what happened. I, I thought to myself, “I want to set up–“ What I want to set up really is like an actual recording like space where– You know, you see like the, the podcasters on social media where they have like they’re in like a studio or they have something nice. And I was like, “What if I set up like a, a section for myself where like even when I’m doing virtual with you, with my brother, it’ll still look like I’m in like a little studio, and then like–“ you know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And so I try– I was like, “Oh, I got to work on that. I don’t have time right now. I’ve been trying to clear stuff out.” But so I set up a like a camera, but now– then I realized like, “Oh, but now when people watch this on YouTube, they’re looking like at you and they’re looking like toward me, and I’m not making eye contact with them or you.” 

Em: Not anymore, babe. Hang on. Wait, let’s– 

[Em pushes their camera away, setting it at an angle. As they do, their video swaps places with Christine’s, so now Em is on the left and Christine is on the right.] 

Christine: Oh, shit. Yeah, but see, you have to read your notes, don’t you? 

Em: Now I’ll just talk like we’re like– Hold on, now you face this way. And now it’s like we’re– 

Christine: See, that’s like– That’s what I mean. Like wouldn’t it be cool if we both had like a little like– where it looked like we were kind of talking to each other even though we’re miles apart? 

Em: It’d be hysterical. Ooh. 

Christine: Anyway. 

Em: Um, anyway, I– if this makes you feel safer, I can do this. But uh– 

Christine: I mean, I just worry. I love– I– 

Em: It doesn’t look like a studio. It still looks like I’m sitting at a fucking shiplap building. But um– 

Christine: I also– [laughs] also [laughs]– 

Em: [laughs] Here– Hang on. Here, I’ll get a little corner action. You ready? Hang on. 

[Em turns their camera to angle it the opposite way, so it is angled towards the corner of the room. Em moves into frame once it’s set up.] 

Christine: Oh, h– Oh. See, like me. Look! 

Em: And– Why do we have the same fucking wall color? 

Christine: Wait, why do our walls– Hello? Did we know this? 

[In the corner of Em’s room, the wall on the left is a slate gray green color, and the wall on the right is white. In the corner of Christine’s room, the wall on the left is a very similar slate gray green color, and the wall on the right is a white wallpaper with tree patterns on it.] 

Em: Is this the first time I’ve ever seen this in my whole life? 

Christine: Hello? Do we understand? 

Em: Christine, wait. We should flip the camera, and it will literally look like we’re in the same room. 

Christine: Fucking hell. This is what it took to get us to look like–? Hold on. Let me move him. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Oh, wait. No, wait. Now I gotta reverse. Wait. 

Em: No. No. 

Christine: Now it just did the– 

Em: It looks good on mine. No? 

Christine: Oh, mine’s opposite. 

Em: Oh, hang on. But then I’m this way. [Em angles themselves so their back is against the slate green wall. Christine tries to face different ways, seeing which will make it look like they’re angled to look at each other.] 

Christine: Okay. I think maybe we have differing, um– 

Em: The lighting was different. 

Christine: This is me the– 

Em: The lighting. We just have to match the lighting like that. No? 

[Em shifts their camera slightly so there is more white wall in the background with the corner moved from the middle of their video to the left side. As they do this, Em and Christine’s videos swap places again, moving Christine back to the left side and Em to the right side.] 

Christine: So– Oh, so we’re looking like we’re– I thought we were trying to get the walls to be together, like two green walls. 

Em: Yeah, that– but they that’s how they look on my screen. I don’t know how they look on your screen. 

Christine: Oh, that’s how it looks on yours. 

Em: It looks great. 

Christine: Damn, why do they make it d– look different on mine? So, okay. Well, that– 

Em: It literally looks like we’re in the same room if I push the camera right there. [Em pushes the camera further away from them and turns to angle themselves towards the green wall, facing the left of the screen, as if they can see Christine opposite them.] Oh my god, Christine. 

Christine: I hope that’s– But I hope that’s how it looks– Okay. Wait, I’m going to flip it for the people who see it my way. I’m worried that like what if everyone sees it–? Hold on. How do I mirror? 

Em: [hums “I don’t know”] 

Christine: Oh, that didn’t help. Did I flip? 

Em: Nope. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: I’m telling you from my end– 

Christine: Oh, wait. I just realized I flipped my camera. My camera’s up there, you idiot. [gestures to the camera recording them as opposed to their laptop camera.] I’m talking to myself. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Seriously, Christine, sometimes I wonder. 

Em: I’m not kidding. 

Christine: I’m like, I just switched the camera. 

Em: We literally just figured out that our walls are the same exact fucking color. 

Christine: That’s actually very strange, huh? 

Em: How did we not know that? 

Christine: And we even have a corner where it’s the color and then like a white color. I mean, mine has wallpaper. 

Em: You realize if I just, if I just put that exact wallpaper on my shiplap, it would look like we just were centered. 

Christine: It’s like really trippy, man. 

Em: I did not see this happening for us at all. 

Christine: I didn’t see this coming, I will say. Uh– 

Em: I’ll also say that. 

Christine: I would say– I would wish I could see it the way that you see it. Let me flip your camera s– 

Em: Here, here. Well, then I’ll just, I’ll just screenshot, dude. 

Christine: Oh, good idea. I wish I could see with your eyes. You know what I mean? 

Em: If– You need the eyes to see. 

Christine: Fuck, that’s so true. 

Em: Um, okay. 

Christine: [reading screen] Em, remove from stage. Don’t do that. 

Em: Hey. 

Christine: Hey. 

Em: What a– 

Christine: Kick from– I’m sorry. It says “kick from studio.” That feels really aggressive. 

Em: Yeah? No? 

Christine: Oh my god. It looks way cooler on yours. Mine– I mean, mine looks cool, too. It just looks like we match walls. 

Em: Yeah, we’ll have to shop it. But this is a good rough draft. 

Christine: I like it though ’cause like– Is this where you would like to stay doing your um–? 

Em: No, but I mean, I– 

Christine: No. 

Em: I mean, yes, I just have to get a different arm for my microphone ’cause it’s currently– It’s been tabletop, and now the table’s over there. 

Christine: It’s the microphoning that makes it so confusing. Like in this picture I sent, it looks like our wall color really is like identical. 

Em: Is that not the eeriest thing in the whole world? 

Christine: Creeping me out. Um– 

Em: Yeah, once I– 

Christine: Everyone’s like, “That’s not that weird.” But I think it’s fucking weird, okay? ’Cause– 

Em: I mean, I can just hear the Gen Z calling us like the most obvious millennials in the world that we pick the– 

Christine: Millennial with like our dark green and like– Yeah. 

Em: Well, because, you know, there was millennial gray and then a bunch of millennials got all up and nasty about it being like, “I’m different,” and then they all picked the exact same shade of green– 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: –which I will just to keep myself feeling young, I’m gonna say this was the last person who lived here. I did not choose this. 

Christine: Okay. This was also the last person I live– that lived here, and by that I mean me five years ago pre-COVID– 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: –or during– be– the start of CO– COVID me picked this. Okay? I was struggling. We were all struggling, and then I bought this entirely way too expensive wallpaper, um, from Anthropologie of all things and then I was like, “Well, I think it’s there forever.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “’Cause it was really expensive, and I don’t wanna change it.” 

Em: Fair enough. 

Christine: But this paint, I bought from Clare paints, by the way, um, back in the day– 

Em: Oh, hey, Clare. 

Christine: It’s a uh– it’s a Black-owned– Black woman-owned business, and their paints are so beautiful. This one was called “Current Mood” or is called “Current Mood.” 

Em: Love that. 

Christine: And I remember buying it like 2020 and going like, “This is my current fucking mood.” And I think a lot of millennials felt the same way. So– 

Em: I– 

Christine: Haters gonna hate whatever. 

Em: I have nothing to contribute because I was not responsible for the shiplap. I was not responsible for the– this color. I just– I just bought the house. 

Christine: I mean, you have an easy out. I’m defense– I’m feeling defensive. Don’t worry. You don’t need to feel defensive. You didn’t do anything wrong. 

Em: [laughs] If it were up to me, this place would be a completely different color. I don’t even know what it would be. 

Christine: What color? 

Em: I don’t know because I’m too scared of my own brain because I love– And I’m, I promise I’m not like trying to fit in with the younger generation. I just love their little style where everything’s just like bursts of fucking colors and crazy shapes. 

Christine: Yeah! 

Em: I think that’s so cool. And so, um, I would probably have like the Dr. Seuss syndrome where like there’s– N-nothing’s a straight line; everything’s weird and wacky and wonky and– 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: So– 

[Em moves their camera closer back to the way it was originally, right in front of them with just the white wall behind them] 

Christine: Okay. I kind of love that. But you also really like the mid-centur– not mid-century, um, the um– 

Em: Art d– 

Christine: What is it called? Art deco? 

Em: Uh, retro– retro-futurism. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I love that. 

Christine: So, I feel like that fits really well though, like with the art deco kind of like retro like curvy– I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I feel like that kind of neon-ish like– I feel like that kind of matches. Um, but yeah, so eventually I do want to have like– But Em, if it is really fucking distracting when I’m talking to you to not be looking in the eye, that’s fine. 

Em: No, it’s not. I was just joking. I– It’s fine. 

Christine: No, no, I, I said it first. You didn’t even say it. I just am projecting my own concerns onto you. 

Em: [chuckles] You’re good. 

Christine: Um– 

Em: We’re good. 

Christine: So, okay. Good, good. So, we’ll try it. If everyone fucking freaks out, I’m sorry. And, uh, I’m sorry about my walls. I’m sorry about me as a person and my identity. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t know what to tell you except sorry. 

Em: Also, don’t judge all of my, um, tabs ’cause I feel like later you’re gonna zoom in on this– 

Christine: What? 

Em: Zoom in on this screenshot. 

Christine: Oh, I wasn’t, but now I will. 

Em: I mean, it’s just a lot of like home decor stuff, so like it’s not very interesting, but, uh, still. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. It’s like, “How to do– How to copy Christine’s office in my house.” No, I’m ki– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Imagine if you looked at the little tabs and it’s actually just pictures of you all over.[laughs] 

Christine: It’s a– [laughs] What if it was like my wallpaper and my– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah. Uh, you were like typing, “Clare paints.” Um, no, I’m just teasing. But yeah, I guess, uh, I was in the millennial spirits when I developed this um– 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: –room, but you know, I do want to change it eventually, and, um, I don’t know. We’ll figure it out. But so th– um, this is me slowly adjusting to having a camera and doing that whole thing. 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: We’ll see what happens. Um– 

Em: I’m also down to get my own actual camera too ’cause that– we did that for a while. We had the camera. 

Christine: We did. And now it’s easy because you don’t have to record on the camera. Like I just p– Like there’s a cam link that my brother sent me that I just plug into the laptop, and it just uses that camera as my webcam. So it doesn’t like– You don’t need like a memory card in the camera. 

Em: Nice. Nice. 

Christine: You know what I mean? So it’s a lot easier now than it was like when we tried it five years ago. Um, and in case you’re wondering, I’m drinking a D– a mini D. Pep. 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: Crack that bad boy open. Um, and I drink ’cause I’m throwing a party for a bunch of little kids tomorrow. So– 

Em: How much do you– how much– What percentage have you gotten done and what you have left? 

Christine: Well, my mother-in-law’s downstairs, so I, I assume probably 99% has been completed [laughs] because she showed up– 

Em: That woman’s incredible. 

Christine: She literally showed up at midnight, landed at midnight. She didn’t show up at midnight. Sorry, that sounded really ominous. Um, she did land– 

Em: [laughs] At the crack of a lightning bolt. 

Christine: Yeah, she– [laughs] Yeah, we said a spell into the fireplace. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Um, she, she showed up last night, and at like 6:00 a.m. up. Everybody’s up. Everybody’s– She’s like cleaning the house, getting Leona ready for school and taking her there. It was just really nice. So, um, I feel a lot calmer than I normally do, uh, right before a, a party. 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: And I also tried to tone it down this year for, for myself. Like I didn’t want to put too much pressure ’cause I feel like I just– It gives me so much stress every year, and I’m like, “Why do I do this?” And this year I’m like, “You know what? Just roll with it. See what happens.” Bought the, bought the decorations and the food and plates and– 

Em: Can confirm my mom used to be one of those moms– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –who like really absolutely lost her mind trying to make it the perfect– I mean, literally for– at like my fourth or fifth birthday party, she literally got a– like pony rides. Like she was like trying to– 

Christine: Oh my word. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: She was really trying to do it up. Don’t remember a fucking thing. So– 

Christine: Yes. See, yeah, yeah, yeah. But, you know, now there’s all this evidence, right? 

Em: Yeah. Now there’s proof. 

Christine: ’Cause I can be like– Now I can be like– Remember I was saying I’ve rented out– We just recorded that yesterday but like I– We were the only ones in the theater, and I was like, “This is hilarious,” ’cause the tickets– It was like a matinee of Gabby’s Dollhouse so the tickets were like $10 or something each, and then– and less for the kids, and then I was like, “Imagine we spend like $40 on all this and say like, ‘Oh, we rented out an entire movie theater for you and your best friend,’” which like obviously is bullshit. Um. 

Em: [laughs] It’s only bullshit because if she listens to this episode one day, then it’s bullshit. Other than that, there is no evidence. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: You just have to burn this episode. 

Christine: Listen, I don’t want to be– I don’t want to set expectations that high. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I feel like that’ll be a card I hold on to if she ever like needs me to prove like that I, I threw her a really cool party or something, but. 

Em: Well, I’ve told you about the, the Barney fiasco of ’95. 

Christine: Okay. I feel like you have, and I feel like I’ve put it away in a place in my brain that’s hard to access, and I’d love for all of us to hear it again, if you don’t mind. 

Em: Yeah, and I’ll find the picture, too. Um, actually, I could– I– Let me find the picture right now because if you recall, I uploaded every single picture from my, from my memory box. 

Christine: I think we recall the process, the journey, the emotional toll it took, etc. 

Em: It was, it was a long journey, so let me take advantage of it right fucking now. Um– 

Christine: Please do. 

Em: So, as I’m looking for this story, I’ll tell you it was my third birthday. We lived in San Francisco at the time. Found it immediately. I’m so glad I downloaded all these fucking pictures. Um- 

Christine: Genius. 

Em: So I– [laughs] We lived in San Francisco. We lived right next to like MGM Studio or something like that or– and that was where Barney was filmed. And if you were a kid in ’95– 

Christine: Oh, Christ. Oh my god. 

Em: –it was the coolest thing in the world to be like, “Oh, yeah, I live like where Barney works. It’s no big deal.” 

Christine: And if you were Em, the coolness of that– 

Em: And it– I had a psychological disorder when I was a kid– 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: –with how much I loved Barney. I think all of us had like that like mob mentality about Barney. Like it’s like Swifties today– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but it was Barney then where for a year– Like really I should have gone to a doctor. I refused– 

Christine: I mean, this really is, is alarming, you guys. 

Em: I refused to go by my own name, which might have been a sign for something else later. Um– 

Christine: Uh, honestly great fucking point. Great fucking point. 

Em: But I, I would not respond to anything except Barney. I did not call my mom “Mom.” She was Baby Bop. I did not call my dad. He was BJ. Like– 

Christine: That’s not, that’s not a joke. Like that’s literally like Em’s lifestyle for– Like Em committed to the bit so hard that it became a mental disorder. 

Em: It wasn’t, it wasn’t a silly little thing. I thought I was Barney. It was a real fucking problem. 

Christine: At what point do you think your mom got like genuinely worried? And I ask that as a parent– 

Em: I d– Yeah. 

Christine: –’cause I’m like I haven’t experienced that yet. But I imagine if it, it happened, I would get– Blaise and I would really start to be like, “Do we–“ Like after a month, like, “Do we– What do we do?” 

Em: Well, Linda waited a year and did fucking nothing. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: So I think you’re fine. 

Christine: Even with– What was her name? Baby Bop? 

Em: Baby Bop. Yeah, Baby Bop did fucking zilch. So, um– 

Christine: That’s crazy to me that you ca– I mean, that you not only had– not to call you crazy as a four-year-old or whatever. 

Em: Oh, no, I– It was, it was bonkers. Anyway– 

Christine: But like it feels like so fitting, right? Like you fixated on it, and you didn’t like your own name– 

Em: Nope. 

Christine: –and there you go. 

Em: My parents always thought that I would end up with a man named Barney and just run away and they’d never see me again. Um, LOL in a lot of ways. 

Christine: I’m really– I’m– I literally remember you telling me this, and I was like, “Well, now you can do the thing like that Cher said of like, “I’m Barney.” 

Em: I know. [laughs] 

Christine: Or is that Celine, Celine Dion? One of them– One of the C ladies. 

Em: Well, but– Oh, it’s like when Cher was like, “I am a rich man.” [laughs] 

Christine: “I am a rich man,” that’s the one. But “I am Barney.” [laughs] 

Em: Well, so my first boyfriend, his name was Tristan, and our– on our very first date, he picked me up in his car, which happened to be a bigass like ten passenger purple van that he named Barney. And my mom was like, “Here we go.” Um– 

Christine: Your mom was like, “I fucking foresaw this in the stars.” Oh my lord. 

Em: So anyway, this, this birthday party when I, I was turning three, and my mom, she– 

Christine: Well, Barney was turning three. 

Em: [laughs] Right. And so my mom/Baby Bop– 

Christine: [laughs] And Baby Bop was planning a big bash. 

Em: She threw me this big birthday party, and I was obsessed with Barney. She was like, “Well, we live right next to the studios.” 

Christine: I don’t think I know this, Em. 

Em: Oh, she was like, “We’re actually gonna have Barney come to your birthday party. We’re gonna–“ 

Christine: Holy fuck. 

Em: “We’re gonna call the studio. We’re gonna have– Barney’s gonna be here.” And I rem– I don’t remember if it was a surprise to me, but I remember sitting on the steps. There’s video of it, which I could also actually probably put up because I do have access to that. Um, and [chuckles] I’m sitting on the steps, and I guess they like– Barney like literally walked into our backyard. And my whole life, I– I mean, it was the best day of my life. My whole life, I would brag to people. I was like, “Oh my god, my mom had the real Barney come to my birthday. She had the real Barney there. The real Barney was there.” And I guess that wasn’t true. And my mom– 

Christine: [gasps] Baby Bop! 

Em: –my mom, [chuckles] she just hired someone with a fucking Barney costume. But because– 

Christine: What? 

Em: And here’s the thing though. Apparently, she was hoping this would be the one time birthday party-wise that like I just wouldn’t fucking remember and she could just get away with it, but I spent my whole life bragging to everyone that she did this, and she didn’t wanna ever break my heart. So even at 18 years old, she was like, “That’s right, the real Barney came. The real Barney came.” 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: And, and she was gonna let me live this f– 

Christine: Yeah, she was. 

Em: –believe this for the rest of my life until I started going through old photos, and I found these pictures and I went, “What the fuck is this?” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] It was a lot easier to lie before cameras were invented, I tell you what. 

Em: And I was like, “What is happening here?” 

Christine: Oh, shit. 

Em: And then she– And I was like, “This isn’t– That can’t be ’cause in my memory, it is real Barney.” 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: “Three-year-old me. It was fucking Barney.” And she went, “I’m so sorry. I never wanted to tell you. Like I thought I–“ She’s like– 

Christine: [laughs] Oh no. “I never thought you’d find out this way.” Oh no. 

Em: –“I thought I got rid of all the photos,” and I found– I guess I found them. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: But anyway, this is for you. 

Christine: Okay. Was cal– Please send it to me right now. I also– 

Em: Tell me– 

Christine: I definitely don’t re-remember this story. 

Em: This is me hugging the real Barney. 

Christine: Of course it is. 

Em: Quote. 

[A photo from Em’s third birthday party appears on the screen. In the backyard of a house, children wearing party hats stand around someone dressed as Barney and two children hold Barney’s hands. The magenta Barney costume is wrinkled, and the padding under the suit is deflated-looking, especially in the head and stomach. He has black eyes with white surrounding them, and there are contours in the padding to show where his nose, forehead, and eyebrows are. He has a wide open grin, shaped with the padding to create dimples.] 

Christine: Oh! [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] His head is deflated. His– 

[Another photo from that same party fades in. This time, the photo shows Barney directly facing the camera. The wrinkles on his face are much more pronounced, and his head looks like it was squished down, looking more rectangular than round. Someone dressed as Baby Bop is in front of Barney, leaning down to talk to the children.] 

[laughs] 

Christine: I need to please just show this on the– ’Cause I don’t– Listen, I’m sure– Oh my word in heaven. 

[The photo fades out, and Christine and Em appear on the screen again.] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, wait. Wrong camera. Um– 

[Christine holds up her phone with the last photo of Barney on it.] 

Em: It’s nightmares. 

Christine: Em, nightmare– 

Em: We’ll put it– We’ll obviously post them or put them in. Actually, Jack, if you just wanna– 

Christine: But look, here’s Baby Bop. Baby Bop’s in there. 

Em: There she is. Jack, if you just wanna put this straight in the video, that’s totally fine. 

Christine: Okay, first of all, look at– 

Em: Um, actually, Jack, I’ll let me get the video clip. I’ll send it to you and if you could put it like right here. Here’s me seeing the real Barney and Baby Bop. 

[Em’s home video begins to play. Children are gathered in the backyard as people dressed as Barney and Baby Bop join the party. Barney’s costume looks squished and deflated, especially in his head and stomach. Barney is carrying a boombox, and Baby Bop brings a collection of yellow, orange, and pink balloons. Barney stops at a playhouse to wave at a small boy.] 

Barney: Hello there! 

[The camera pans to the children who stand up, waving at Barney excitedly.] 

Children: Hi Barney! 

Barney: Emily! 

Children: Hi! [unintelligible exclamations] 

Barney: Hi! Hi! Hi! I brought the boombox. 

Adult holding camera: Hi! 

Barney: Hello there! 

Baby Bop: These are for Emily. 

Adult holding camera: Emily! 

[Barney and Baby Bop go over to the birthday kid, Em, a young child with long brown hair wearing a navy dress and a party hat, and Barney takes their hand. A woman filming blocks the camera for a moment.] 

Adult: Thank you. 

[The young child lets go of Barney’s hand, holding what looks like a picture book up in the air.] 

Young Em: Look, Mommy! 

Adult holding camera: What did Barney bring you? 

[camera cuts to a few moments later. Music from the boombox plays in the background. Barney stands next to the children, dancing, and Baby Bop hugs Em.] 

Adult holding camera: Aw. 

[video fades to black, and Christine and Em return to the screen.] 

Em: [laughs] We’re both unsure of the whole situation. 

Christine: Just unsu– Well, you’re not. You’re fully sure. You’re fully bought in. You’re, uh, you’ve– So, did you cry when you found out or were you mad at your mom or were you just like, “Oh, well”? 

Em: Well, I found out the day before I was graduating high school. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh, you were still young. 

Em: I was– 

Christine: Oh, I thought this was like a recent discovery. 

Em: No, I was like 17, 18. 

Christine: You mean, you were like a kid. Aw, that’s sad. 

Em: And so, here’s another picture, Jack, you can put in. Um, so I really– 

Christine: Oh, I know this picture. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I think. Yeah. 

Em: I think you do. Um– 

Christine: I love this picture. 

Em: So I found out the day before I was gonna graduate high school that I found these pictures because they were looking for pictures for my graduation party. 

Christine: [laughs] Talk about a scandal, and it’s like most– It’s like of all family scandals, you found out that it wasn’t the real Barney. Ugh. 

Em: I, I truly– I was like, “Oh my god, I can’t believe this happened.” And, uh, basically I like I had a day to– not like a day to process as if this was a real trauma, but I was like, “I can’t fucking believe–” 

Christine: A day to– [laughs] I mean, it, it’s like a traumatic incident as like a– to like I don’t know. It, it’s a little “t” trauma. 

Em: Well, I just couldn’t believe it. I was like, “I’ve been telling everybody for 15 years that this–“ 

Christine: Yeah, that’s– 

Em: And so I don’t know how my mom pulled it off, but so the next day I was gonna graduate and then have my graduation party at the end of the day. My mom last minute tried to like make it up to me and at my graduation party decided, decided to get another Barney impersonator. 

Christine: Oh, she cannot be stopped, this woman. 

Em: But with– 

Christine: She’s like– She doubles down. 

Em: But with 24 hours notice? First of all, the only way you can make it up to me is get real fucking Barney here in 24 hours or less. 

Christine: Fair. I mean– 

Em: But she tried to get– 

Christine: –she really should have– she should have pulled that off. 

Em: I think to recreate pictures, she was like, “We’ll get you a better Barney.” And then she got me a fucking worse Barney that only has– 

Christine: Yeah, that one I remember. 

Em: He only has black for eyes. So this, this is– Jack, you can put this here. 

Christine: He’s a black-eyed Barney. Like a black-eyed kid. 

Em: He’s a– This was my graduation party. I mean, hello. [laughs] 

[A photo fades in. Em is wearing a blue graduation cap and gown, laughing as they adjust the cap. Next to them, someone is dressed in a cheap-looking Barney costume. The fabric has no padding under it, making it appear like a Barney onesie. Barney’s head is padded, but the shape looks off compared to the skinny body. The eyes on top of the head are entirely black with no white or iris, and they are simply attached on top without any shadow or contours in the fabric or padding, adding to the odd appearance. His mouth is very small and doesn’t add any dimples or contours to his round face and head. He stands awkwardly next to Em, posing for the camera.] 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, like real talk. Is that like Linda or somebody in that costume? 

Em: It was– 

Christine: This feels like it’s like your par– your friend’s parent or something. 

[The photo fades out, and Christine and Em reappear on the screen.] 

Em: It was, it was her best friend’s husband. But here’s the thing. Like nobody else– Because this happened the night before. 

Christine: [chuckles, blowing a raspberry] 

Em: This is a picture of me 24 hours after finding out that the first Barney picture was awful. Um– 

Christine: I mean, we’re gonna have to put like put these somewhere. But this is hilarious. 

Em: When I, when I– The– [chuckles] 

Christine: But his head’s inflated all the way. The rest of him’s kinda a little not. 

Em: That’s a great point. 

Christine: You know, it’s like she found kind of– If you combine the two, it might look realistic. 

Em: But here’s the thing, because we– This discovery just happened 24 hours ago between me and her, and, and then she tried to just get a Barney impersonator within 24 hours notice– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –that basically, get this, I was having a wholeass graduation party of like 300 people, and nobody knew the context of this. He just fucking waltzes in. 

Christine: Are you sure nobody knew? 

Em: Nobody knew. 

Christine: You didn’t tell all 300 of your classmates how many times– 

Em: Well– I h– 

Christine: –that you’d met the real Barney when you were three? [laughs] 

Em: My mom was giving a graduation speech, and then all of a sudden, I hear [singing “I Love You” from Barney & Friends ] ♪ I love you / You– ♪♪ 

Christine: No! 

Em: And like– 

Christine: By the way, first of all, you’re still processing. 

Em: Everyone– 

Christine: This is traumatic. 

Em: She had someone just play it on like a speaker, and then this fuckass Barney walks in, and I’m like, “What the hell?” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] She is so crazy! Baby Bop, fucking tone it down. This is a wildest story. I mean, to have like– Wow, that feels like me in the way that I would overnight something and just do it like to try and fix the problem. Um, so I do, in that way– Uh, what’s happening to my computer? It’s just like zooming me out. Oh god. 

Em: Oh, you look fine here. 

Christine: Okay. Well, yeah, I just feel like I can understand that, uh, that instinct to just fix it. But yeah, that is quite a bold move to do, especially for your teenage child. Like your teenage child– 

Em: Like with everyone they’ve grown up with in one big room. [laughs] 

Christine: –with their entire cl– 

Em: And no context. 

Christine: –like school of classmates to bring up like something– [groans] 

Em: Like literally like in a, in a horror movie high school drama. I could hear everyone around me going, “What’s going on?” [laughs] 

Christine: What? Like, “Do you get it? I don’t get it.” 

Em: It was so embarrassing. 

Christine: Yeah. I mean, really, it’s got to be just chilling. It’s chilling. 

Em: Half the reason I don’t wanna get married is ’cause she’ll try again. I just like don’t– 

Christine: Oh my god. You know, now she will. Now I will. Now I think we’re all on board frankly. 

Em: Everyone will just dress as Barney, and I’ll be like, “What’s fucking happening?” 

Christine: I think it’s gonna be just no one will, and you’ll be just like, “Oh, phew.” And then the officiant will walk out, and you’ll go, “Ahh!”– 

Em: “Ahh!” [laughs] 

Christine: –you know, and it– And this time I promise it will be the real Barney. Wink. [Christine winks at Em.] 

Em: Uh-huh. Well, if Barney was the officiant, I’d be– I could get behind that. A-Allison, I don’t know about that. 

Christine: What if you finally get to be Bar– [laughs] Yeah. Well, we’ll cross that bridge when we get there. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But, uh, what would– What about if you got to finally be the Barney that you’ve wanted to be since you were three? 

Em: That’d be sick. I could be Barney. I– 

Christine: Here’s my question also. Like, did you develop the Barney persona before or after meeting the Barney–? ’Cause I, I would be worried as a parent, too, if like she’s like, “Look, he’s really here,” and then like you decided like from that day on you were Barney. 

Em: No, no, I– 

Christine: Like ’cause then it’s like, “Uh-oh, I’ve created a monster.” 

Em: No, I was already in the thick of it. 

Christine: Okay, okay. Okay. 

Em: It, it was a slow– I think you can only go so delusional until you just start calling yourself Barney. [laughs] 

Christine: I mean, you’re right. Like, how much more could you have gotten in? How much, how much deeper could you have gotten into this? 

Em: This was my third birthday. And then I also have home video of this, the, the birthday before this was my second birthday where we had a Barney cake. And the whole video is just a bunch of grown dads just like beating a Barney piñata like to a bloody pulp– 

Christine: [laughs] Oh! 

Em: –and the children are just screaming. 

Christine: Traumatic. I know, I never understood the, the piñata at the kid– Like I mean, I understand it, uh, from a cultural perspective, but from like my– our generation, we’d grow up and just like get the cutest little thing– 

Em: And beat the shit out of it. 

Christine: –and then just like give a bunch of little kids and their dads like baseball bats. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I remember being like, “Oh no, the poor– Yeah, the poor Barney.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Or yeah, Dora the Explorer. Oh. 

Em: Anyway, um, in a– I didn’t know it could be topped, and yet I have found a way to make something about me when I was trying to talk about your fucking kid and her birthday. I’m so sorry. 

Christine: No, this was way more entertaining. I didn’t do anything quite as traumatic, I don’t think. 

Em: Good. 

Christine: We, we’ll find out tomorrow. 

Em: You have time. 

Christine: Um, there were te– There were tears on the birthday, but they were like over-tired and over-sugared tears, and so we were like, “It’s a success.” 

Em: I see. Yeah. 

Christine: You know, like she was just like a little weepy and like not anything major. I will say though, last night– or this morning on the way to school, Sherry and Blaise get home from dropping her off and go, “Um, there’s a slight dilemma.” And I went, “Uh, oh,” and they said, “Are you exc– We asked her if she’s excited about her birthday party tomorrow. And she said, ‘Yeah, it’s Dino Ranch themed.’” 

Em: Ooh. 

Christine: And I was like, “It is?” And Blaise went, “Well, it’s not,” and I went, “I know.” And I was like, “I have just spent weeks planning a Gabby’s Dollhouse birthday.” And I think it’s because she had always said she wanted two themes. And I was like, “Well, you know, you should pick one. Like, I don’t wanna–“ 

Em: She’s such a diva. I love her. 

Christine: And I said– I know. She’s like, “We do half and half. Half the cake is this, half the cake is that.” And she couldn’t decide. 

Em: Gabby’s Ranch. 

Christine: Yeah, Gabby’s Ranch. That’s actually really cute. And so then we– 

Em: Or Dino Dollhouse. That’d be fun, too. 

Christine: Dino D– Fuck. 

Em: I mean– 

Christine: Okay, next year. 

Em: Well, no, just get it– Just tonight. Go get a dollhouse. Put a bunch of dinosaurs in it. Dino Dollhouse, boom. 

Christine: I mean, we have a dollhouse. I’ll put dinosaurs in it. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: I think she’s, she’s gonna be like, “That’s not the same.” 

Em: It’s not the same. Yeah, I get it. 

Christine: You know, and then Blaise was like, “We have a bunch of dinosaur stuff from last year.” And I’m like, “Yeah, but she’s gonna be like, ’It’s not–“ 

Em: It’s not the same. 

Christine: Whatever. So, basically, I, uh, found a bunch of printables online, like coloring pages, and I was like, “I’m just going to put these out.” And then, uh, she has like Dino Ranch toys, and I was like, “We’ll use these as decorations.” So there’s a lot of kind of finagling going on. I don’t think it’ll be on– at the level of like the Barney, um, fiasco of 1995. 

Em: It does not have to be. 

Christine: Yeah. But it, but I kind of don’t want it to be. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: Maybe when she’s like– No, I, I don’t know. I don’t know. Someday it’ll happen, but not today, Satan, please. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So we're kind of like last minute trying. And Dino Ranch is not like as popular of a brand as– It’s like a Canadian TV show, so I’m like, “I don’t have like–“ 

Em: Yeah, you can’t just like run to Spirit Halloween. Yeah. 

Christine: It’s not like at Walmart necessarily, right? Like it’s just a little bit harder to find. So– And you know, with my trying to, trying to avoid certain, uh, online retailers, it’s been really difficult. 

Em: Understood. 

Christine: So, uh, thankfully there are a lot of free resources online, and then Etsy had some like downloadable digital stuff, and, you know, I got my Cricut, so we’re doing a lot of DIY. But, uh, it’ll be fun, and, um, I’m pretty convincing. I can convince her that it’s been Dino Ranch all along. 

Em: You know, I– If anyone can do it, it’s certainly you. 

Christine: Thank you. 

Em: And when in doubt, call my mom. She will have a dinosaur there in 24 hours or less. 

Christine: Oh my god. She will literally just send another fuckass Barney, as you called it, and we’ll be like, “See, he’s from the ranch.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I’m, I’m just saying– 

Christine: [laughs] She’s like traumatized. 

Em: I have two instances where she got a shitty last minute dinosaur. 

Christine: Wait, hold on. It’s been– Did you know that that’s been– It’s the 30 year anniversary of the– 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: –of the Barney– 

Em: Don’t tell her that. Don’t tell– 

Christine: –30-year anniversary. Do you think the original one is still around? Now he’s like 70 in that costume? 

Em: [laughs] Maybe. To this day, I don’t know who that man was. Um, he was just in our backyard. Um– 

Christine: A, an icon, really. And he probably was like, “Oh, wow. Wow. Okay.” 

Em: Anyway– 

Christine: “They really think I’m the real deal, huh?” 

Em: He really– He must have felt so good about himself that day. 

Christine: I hope so. 

Em: Um, but yeah, again, twice now, my mom has proved she can get a last minute dinosaur. So if you decide on Dino Ranch– 

Christine: I know. I mean, why did I not even put that together? Like, Dino– Leona wants a Dino Ranch, Linda’s got one on standby. 

Em: I’m– She always– I– Honestly, I– Part of me has joked, and then she never fully answered the question– 

Christine: Yep, yep, yep, yep. 

Em: –but I was like, “Did you just buy that? Like, at this point, you should just have one on lease.” 

Christine: “You should just invest, yeah, in the actual–” 

Em: “Just have an outfit at all moments.” 

Christine: “You should be paying it off over the years ’cause you know you’re gonna need it.” It’s like a time share. Like someone else will use it, then we’ll need it, like tomorrow. 

Em: Just don’t ever, just don’t ever do what my mom did where like every single person you’ve ever known is next to you and you can hear them whispering, “I don’t get it.” That’s like– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –the worst. 

Christine: Well, you know that that’s my worst nightmare. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, so don’t worry. I’m way, way, way too neurotic to make that happen. Um– 

Em: Oh man. Anyway, thanks mom. So– 

Christine: Anyway, so thanks– 

Em: –it’s been 45 minutes. I’m so sorry. 

Christine: And it’s been like such a good t– I’ve had the best time. We actually started this podcast today going, “It’s gonna be so short ’cause we’re–“ 

Em: I know. I know. 

Christine: ’Cause we were like, “Oh, we both bought a short story,” and then of course here we go. 

Em: [sighs] What do you– 

Christine: I guess– 

Em: Why– You drank a D. Peppy and why? Is there a reason why? 

Christine: Oh, oh, ’cause, uh, ’cause I’m hosting a party of children tomorrow. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: And I don’t– I guess I don’t have a Dino Ranch party. I have a Gabby’s Dollhouse party with a few Dino Ranch characters sprinkled throughout. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, but you know what? It’s just gonna have to, have to work ’cause I’m not gonna overhaul everything. 

Em: The, the best part of this podcast is that one day Leona can listen to this and then any issues that come about tomorrow, in like ten years, she’ll go, “You tried, Mom. Good job.” 

Christine: I just have this vi– flash of like me sitting there in a therapy office with her and not in a traumatic way but just in like a, “Let’s all like get– you know, talk things out,” and just like, “So on this part of the podcast, Mom, when you mentioned me to–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Like I’m– Like I should probably shut my mouth sometimes, but, oh well, too late. 

Em: No, I mean, I don’t think you’ve said anything too damning just yet. If she were a teenager, you’re in trouble. I’d be like, “Guess what she did today?” 

Christine: Yeah, I was gonna say, she hasn’t, she hasn’t done anything too damning, so she better watch it. 

Em: Yeah, let this be a prophecy. Don’t do– 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: Don’t you mess up, Leona. Don’t you do it. 

Christine: God, she’s perfect. 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Well, why do I drink? Um, oh my god, I’m just so tired. I did not know the effect that two red-eyes in a row could have on a person. Um, I– 

Christine: Oh, you didn’t, did you? 

Em: I took a guess, but also I was like– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –“I’m pretty good at like falling asleep.” And I just like– I think– You know what the problem is is I should have just let yet be like a day where I rested after the fact, but instead I just– 

Christine: Yeah, well, that was my fault ’cause I said, “Let’s record on Thursday.” 

Em: No, no, no. ’Cause I– ’Cause then after that I had like back-to-back plans with a bunch of people. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: And so I didn’t go to bed until a normal time after not sleeping. So I’m half caught up on my sleep, um, but at the same time, I feel like after this I have so many things I need to do around the house when like all I want to do is just be horizontal. 

Christine: Mm, you don’t get rest time. 

Em: You know what? And I do it to myself because really, who’s here telling me I can’t? Me though. You know? 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: All of a sudden, I’m like, “I have to do this or else it’s just going to be looming and like–“ 

Christine: You gotta pick your poison, you know? You either gotta feel like guilty for this, feel weird for that. But you don’t have to feel guilty for anything. But I know how brains are. 

Em: Well, thank you. I will say though, can I get a little clinky, a little cheers, a little toast? 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Because Hanky’s had a big milestone. 

Christine: [gasps] He did? Clink– Oh, clink clink clink clink. 

[Em and Christine both hold up their drinks, miming clinking them together.] 

Em: Clink clink clink clink. Um, we– Ever s– As people know because I can’t shut up about him– Um, ever since we got him, he has been actively destroying the house anytime we leave, and yesterday was the first time that the house was like semi-full of our stuff. We’ve been living in squalor where like we hide everything whenever we leave. 

Christine: [chuckles] Aw. 

Em: And every time we’re gonna go somewhere, I need a half an hour in advance to hide everything. So he basically just sits in an empty house because I– we’re scared he’s gonna eat something. Um, but yesterday was the first day that we didn’t hide anything and we left for like– We? Me. I left for four hours, and he– I came back, and nothing had been touched. Nothing. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: And I was like– 

Christine: What a good boy. 

Em: He’s a good little man. 

Christine: What a good boy. 

Em: I don’t know where he is, but he’s a good man. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Anyway, so I was very proud of him. 

Christine: Sweet baby. I’m so proud of him. Look. 

Em: So that’s why I drink ’cause he’s become a good man. Good mimis. 

Christine: Oh my god, I’m so proud of him. 

Em: Okay. [sighs] 

Christine: Gio’s staring daggers into my eyes, which is why I’m toning it down a little bit. Um– 

Em: [laughs] He’s like, “Dang, you’re talking about another man right in front of me. That’s crazy.” 

Christine: “Who the hell are you talking about?” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Wow. Good boy. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

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[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Em’s Story – Graveyards 

Em: Okay, so I have a story for you. This was a Christine request because after our last episode, I was saying, “Man, I want to keep up the Halloween thing, but I don’t really know what to do yet.” And so I asked Christine what her Halloween wish would be. And Christine– 

Christine: I have no idea what I said. 

Em: Yes, you do. You don’t remember? 

Christine: No. 

Em: Okay. Well– 

Christine: Oh, graveyards. 

Em: Yes. So Christine– 

Christine: Games and graveyards. 

Em: Christine asked specifically for “gaveyard”– graveyard games was the situation here, but I, I have broadened it to like way– activities that we should all be bringing back to graveyards. 

Christine: Oh! Yes. 

Em: Okay. Um, because I, I tried to look up games. I will bring them up a little bit, but wow, there was just about two whole sentences for the entire topic. 

Christine: Really? I could bring you a whole sentence of– I could bring you a whole another sentence of games of– that I’ve played in graveyards. 

Em: Yeah. What– Tell– As a graveyard kid, what did– what were things that you would do? 

Christine: [laughs] Wait, that’s such a good story. I’m gonna write it. Graveyard kids. The graveyard kids. 

Em: I’m telling you, it was– I mean, that’s a– I just always call you Wednesday Adams, but you really did grow up in a graveyard. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: How does someone who has a graveyard in their, in their, as their backyard? What do you do with that? 

Christine: Yeah. So we used it a lot for, uh, background sets for um– I did a lot of home videos in case that’s not clear from my personality. Um, I directed a lot of home videos starring my unsuspecting neighbors and little brother. Um, and so a lot of them were centered around that. Um, we used it as like a kind of a set deck, you know. Uh, a lot of it was when I was feeling moody, and I would kind of open my window and like let the rain drizzle, and I would just like– 

Em: God, you’re so cool. 

Christine: –listen– No, ’cause I was listening to probably, um, like Kelly Clarkson– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –and just like looking at the graveyard, you know. [chuckles] Um, and I didn’t do anything nefarious in there, you know. I would um–I– We would– I did do a Ouija board in there, and I don’t know that that was ma-maybe necessarily appropriate, but I was– That was actually my high school– Speaking of high school graduations, uh, my birthday and high school graduation were like a combo thing. 

Em: Me too. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. And that makes sense– 

Em: Did you also graduate on June 5th? 

Christine: I don’t remember the day. It was– 

Em: My birthday was June– or the graduation was June 5th. 

Christine: I– It was some– It was probably right around there. Um, and I had this party, and I, I– One kid actually like got so upset ’cause he’s Christian that he, um, drove home and like wouldn’t talk to me. Um– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And so I remember being like, “Oh–“ That’s the point where I realized, “Oh, this is maybe not as normal as I think it is to–” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] My first thought– 

Christine: And I was like 18. Like what? 

Em: My first thought would have been like, “Well, I never have to see him again now that we’ve graduated.” So. 

Christine: I know, ex– That was my second thought. I was like, “Okay, uh, party pooper.” And then some people were like, “I don’t know about this,” and I was like, “You’re probably right.” I mean, they’re probably all right, but, uh– So I’ve done that. 

Em: I would have thought it was sick. I would have thought it was so cool. 

Christine: I know. I mean, some people were really on board. Um, so that’s that. So, that’s, that’s my kind of extent. I didn’t do like a whole lot of– I mean, we’d play, like when we were really little, play like hide-and-seek in there– 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: –but that’s not really, you know, paranormal-related. 

Em: That’s fine. I mean, I– It’s, it’s one of those things where– in– by doing it in a graveyard, it’s paranormal. 

Christine: Right? I guess it is, right? And I like– Who knows who else was playing with us. 

Em: Yeah, right. Like maybe you never actually– The seeker is still seeking. I don’t know. 

Christine: There was always this one girl in a Victorian dress. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Oh man. Well, uh, I tried my best, but I really– I typed in “graveyard games,” and it really kind of just turned into like hokey Halloween like bob for apples stuff. And I was– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: I was like, “I can’t– I’m not doing that.” Um– 

Christine: No, I– Listen, I just– I’m here for the rid– I’m here along for the ride. 

Em: So this is very quick because this is– Essentially instead of normal notes, this is just bullet points of things one can do. So– 

Christine: Oh, I love it. 

Em: So if you would like to give your opinion on, I’m not kidding, every single thing, that’s fine because– 

Christine: I’m in. 

Em: –otherwise this is gonna be about a two minute topic. 

Christine: Everyone just groaned, but I’m in. 

Em: I, I tried, man. But okay, so this was my inspiration for– ’Cause I really– 

Christine: No, I mean everyone groaned when I said– 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: –“Oh, yes. I will be chiming in on every bullet point.” Not, not groaning at what you said, groaning that I’m gonna make it fucking annoyingly long. That’s all. 

Em: Well, the, the people who like your story and not mine are celebrating. They’re like, “Finally, a quick one.” Um, but while I still have their attention [chuckles], um, I think this is– You’re the per– You’re the perfect person to have this conversation with as someone who is a graveyard kid. 

Christine: Mm. Yes, a graveyard kid. TM, TM. 

Em: Um, they’re, you know, boxcar children. 

Christine: Yes. And I always call myself a– like you do too, a boxcar child. And I call Leona my little boxcar child. But like graveyard kid is kickass. 

Em: I’m surprised as a little graveyard kid, you never called yourself a graveyard kid. 

Christine: Why didn’t I? 

Em: I don’t know. I would have called you that. Especially if we went to the same high school– 

Christine: I don’t think I realized it– 

Em: –I’d have been like, “Hey, graveyard kid, fucking come over here.” 

Christine: Nobody really– Like I don’t think it was that unusual to me. Like because it was just normal. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So maybe it didn’t even occur to me. I don’t know. 

Em: That’s true. I get that. Well, just know that that’s what I’ve always called you. 

Christine: [under her breath, singing] ♪ Let the rain pour… ♪♪ 

Em: It’s kind of like how apparently you always called Emothy and then didn’t announce that information for a while. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: I um– 

Christine: Get this: Emothy and the Graveyard Kid. 

Em: It’s like, it’s like Butch and the Sundance Kid. 

Christine: It’s like Butch Cassidy, yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It’s like– but it’s better. 

Em: It is [unintelligible] 100%. Um– 

Christine: Obviously. 

Em: So okay. So you’ll be able to tell me how possible these things are. And I, I separated the– I separated this up. There’s some little chunk, chunkies. Um, so I would be remiss if I didn’t even just mention the game, Ghost in the Graveyard. 

Christine: Mm, yeah. 

Em: Which is, which is something that you could, in theory, play in a graveyard. And if the– 

Christine: We never played that in the graveyard. 

Em: I also feel like that, that’s really just Hide-and-Seek if you’re only playing with two people. 

Christine: Fair enough. 

Em: Because for those who don’t know how to play Ghost in the Graveyard, um, it’s Hide-and-Seek except there’s only one hider and everyone else is a seeker. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: But the hider is the “ghost”– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and the seekers are ghost hunters. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And once someone finds the person hiding, you’re supposed to shout to everybody else, “There’s a ghost in the graveyard.” 

Christine: And it’s usually– 

Em: And then the ghost will chase the hunters, and if they tag you, you’re now also a ghost and you become the next person to– 

Christine: Oh, okay. Is it also like with flashlights? I feel like we always played it at night with flashlights. But maybe not. 

Em: Maybe. I mean, there’s also a Flashlight Tag. 

Christine: Yeah, I think I got them– I think we kind of crossed wires with those as kids. 

Em: They’re all just a little different. And I feel like almost every outdoor game is a s– a different– just, just different enough version of Hide-and-Seek or, or Tag. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: It’s always either Tag or Hide-and-Seek. 

Christine: Like it has the same elements. Yeah. Like someone’s– 

Em: Like, “I’m going to tag you, and then either the game’s over and you’re the next it, or now you’re on my side.” 

Christine: There’s a team– Yeah. Sometimes there’s a flashlight. 

Em: Red Rover. Sharks and Minnows. They’re all the same. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, anyway, I– Obviously, someone was going to say I missed Ghost in the Graveyard if I didn’t mention it. So, that is a game one could play in the graveyard, as well as the game, Graveyard. Did you ever play that as a kid? 

Christine: Hm, I don’t know. What is that? 

Em: It was essentially the silent game. Um, it was literally like be as silent as a graveyard. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Pretend you’re dead pretty much. 

Christine: Oh, I did that ’cause my parents asked me to, told me to. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] So, the way we played it in school was, um, it was basically Heads Up, Seven Up, except instead of sitting at your table with your head on your desk, you would just lie down on the ground and just close your eyes, and then someone would just go around and like put your thumb in your hand. It was– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –the same thing. You played that? 

Christine: Yeah, vaguely. But it’s like, were they just trying to get us to take a nap? Like, what were we doing? 

Em: I will say I only ever played that game during quiet time at school. So maybe. 

Christine: Right. Like– Mm-hmm. Okay, they were trying to just like tone our– They were trying to get our parasympathetic nervous systems like back in running. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: They were like, “It’s okay.” 

Em: There was another version of Graveyard that some of the other kids played where it was also a quiet game, but the one person who’s it or like– we always called them like the grave robber. 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: Um, he would– His job was to go around to every kid lying on the ground, aka dead body, Um– 

Christine: Oh, good. 

Em: And his job was to like try to make you laugh. And if you, if you were the first one out of everyone in the graveyard to laugh, then you, you lost. You were like– 

Christine: Then you become a ghost? 

Em: Well, then you’re the, the next graveyard digger or whatever. 

Christine: Oh, okay. I get it. I get it. I get it. That’s fun though to make them laugh. I feel like that’s always a good like concept of a game. I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. Try to make me laugh. Okay. I, I do that with you all the time. So. 

Christine: Try to make– I was like, “Um, you didn’t– You gave me a millisecond.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: There. See? 

Em: See? You made me laugh. Good job. 

Christine: I did it. 

Em: So those are the two spooky-themed, graveyard-themed games. You wanted graveyard games? I got you two. There you go. 

Christine: I love it. 

Em: Um, but now these are just things that I think people should actually go do in a graveyard– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –especially as someone who was a graveyard kid, raising a graveyard grandkid. 

Christine: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Em: I think these would be fun activities if you’re trying to do something other than zoo or museum, if you just wanna– or aquarium. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: I know she loves the aquarium. 

Christine: I mean, listen, the– It’s still there. We still live– My mom still lives there, so, you know, she has as much access as I did. 

Em: Yeah. So, if you ever want to like do a day in the graveyard, I– This is me basically trying to plan out activities for you and Leona. That’s kind of what this became. 

Christine: Thank you so much. 

Em: It comes with paperwork. I’m not kidding. I found forms for you. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: So– 

Christine: Fuck off. [laughs] 

Em: Um, obviously you could play some fun games like, uh, “find the grave that’s like the oldest; or who was born the earliest–“ 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Yeah. 

Em: “–or which has the strangest name; which is the coolest looking grave or the weirdest looking grave.” So, that’s– 

Christine: Oh, you wanna know something that I did that did happen in a graveyard? Sorry, I don’t mean to bar– burst in right away, but like– 

Em: It’s your whole job. What? 

Christine: I do have a kind of a ghost story– 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: –from recently that happen– I, I don’t know if it’s a ghost story or like just a strange synchronicity, but, um, it just hit me because I had like meant to bring it up on the show. Um, but I was at my mom’s recently and Leona was, uh, on her way there with, with Blaise or something, and I was walking through the graveyard. And I don’t go in there very often anymore. Like, I don’t know, I just don’t. And I went in there– Where’d it go? I went in there, and I like was just kind of actually looking at the graves and really just like– I was by myself, and I was just, I don’t know, meandering. And I saw this one, and it just like made my heart ache ’cause it was a little baby. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And, uh, her name was like Ida Mae or something and– or no, Fannie Mae. That’s what it was, and, uh, it had like a little lamb on it, like a little lamb statuette. And I just thought it was like so sweet and heartbreaking ’cause she was really little when she passed. And so I like went and like kind of like pet the little lamb and, and gave it a little kiss and then like went back to my house. And, um, a few hours later, Leona was like, “Can we go exploring?” And so my mom and she and I walked into the graveyard. We’re looking around, and I’m telling you like there are hundreds of graves in this thing. It’s not like a small plot or anything. Uh, she– We’re wandering around. She goes right up to– And this is when she was like two or three. Like she was speaking but not too much. And she walked up to the grave of this Fannie Mae, and she just like– And I’m like frozen, and I don’t say anything. And she like pets the little sheepy, and she goes, “Mommy, what’s her name?” 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: And I was like, “First of all, how do you even know it’s a her?” You know? 

Em: Uh-huh. 

Christine: Like, like it just was so strange. And I was like, “Oh, her name is Fannie Mae.” And that was it. And that was it. But I, I remember going like, “Out of all the hundreds of graves– And it’s not the only child grave, unfortunately–” But it was a very weird moment. And I was like, “She didn’t wanna know any of the other names of the kids or the people there.” 

Em: Yeah, that’s– 

Christine: So, little Fannie Mae. 

Em: Well, honestly, I’m sure that if that little spirit like saw that you’re like, “Oh, that’s a nice mommy.” Like, I could feel safe with this one. 

Christine: I hope so, and I, and I like that Leona got to come like see her, you know? It was just like really, um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Anyway, so that was that moment. But yeah, so we have like looked around. Oh, here it is. I walked through cemetery. A two year– Oh, that’s what it was. Oh my god, I forgot. Sorry. I found, um, a two-year-old’s tombstone that some asshole had kicked over. 

Em: Oh, fuck. 

Christine: Like somebody had like broken it. And I will say it’s also– Oh, I don’t want to triangulate myself, but there are some other reasons that they might have done that. Um, so I pried it out of the dirt, and I, and I could tell it had been recently knocked over because it– the dirt was– like there was still grass under it. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So I like set it back up upright, and I said like a little prayer. And then a few hours later, uh– Oh, that’s what it was. I was kinda touching the graves. I also have OCD. Uh, and then Leona said, “Mommy, can you touch this one?” And I turned around, and she was at, uh, that grave, and I was like, “Oh.” And she went, “What’s her name?” And I was like, “Oh my god.” So that was how it happened. 

Em: It was like the two of you had a little moment together. 

Christine: I know. I felt really like that was special. And I had fixed the little grave, so I felt like, “Oh, that was a nice little like nod.” You know? 

Em: You know, while you’re there, I don’t know if this would like put your kid into psychosis, but, um, it– 

Christine: [laughs] Well, the Barney thing did it for you, so you’d know. You know, I don’t know. 

Em: I was gonna say, have you ever thought about taking her there and just going, “Do you see anyone?” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And just seeing if she does? 

Christine: Um, I feel like she would tell me if she did. You know what I mean? 

Em: Sure. You don’t want to like open that can of worms on your own. 

Christine: Mm, right. And I don’t want her to be like, “Why are you asking?” Uh, ’cause I feel like if she saw somebody, I would know. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Like if she was like looking at a person. Like she’s old enough now, too, where I’m like– And she also loves to talk to people, so– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Honestly, I’m just waiting for the day she walks up to nobody and goes like, “Hi.” So. 

Em: “You’re right. Two plus two is four.” And you’re like, “What?” 

Christine: “Ahh!” 

Em: I, I only use, use that example because one of the freakiest times I ever heard of somebody– like a kid going up and talking to someone is the parents were like, “Okay, well ask them this math problem you couldn’t possibly know.” 

Christine: No! 

Em: And like he was getting every single one of them right. 

Christine: [gasps] That’s– 

Em: That was freaky. 

Christine: That’s not okay. That is not cool, man. 

Em: Anyway, in case you ever need to test it, just ask like what’s like 20 times 100. 

Christine: That’s a great idea. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Or like what was– Like something like about a floppy d– Or something that like she wouldn’t know from their era. [chuckles] 

Em: Yeah. So, um, by the way, do you know the difference between a cemetery and a graveyard? 

Christine: I do. Um, a cemeter– or I’m sorry, a graveyard is usually part of a church, right? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So then I’m wrong. It’s actually a cemetery that we have. 

Em: You’re technically a cemetery kid, but graveyard sounds so much cooler. 

Christine: Graveyard kid sounds way cooler, but yeah. So I always say graveyard, but yeah, you’re right. Cemetery is the one without an attached church. 

Em: I’m not gonna knock you for it. 

Christine: Okay. Thank you. I appreciate that. 

Em: I– Graveyard kid is still cooler than c-cemetery kid. 

Christine: I think so. 

Em: Oh my god. Shut up. 

Christine: Yeah, I think so. 

Em: Nerd. Um– 

Christine: You nerd, you wish. 

Em: [laughs] So, okay. So, yeah, you could always play the game like, “Let’s go find the oldest grave here. Let’s go find who was born the earliest. What’s uh–“ 

Christine: Mm-hmm. “Or who lived the long– like the oldest age? Or–“ 

Em: “Who has the silliest name? Or–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Just like pick a thing. Like, “Let’s go find a married couple ’cause they’re always buried together.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “Let’s go find–“ you know. So that’s an easy one. Just like a let’s go on an exploration– 

Christine: Love it. 

Em: –an adventure and try to find this one thing. 

Christine: I love it. I love it. 

Em: Um, and that’s something– I added that to the adult list. Because I did adult list and then like things you want– you– I set– I basically made a date for you and Leona. Um– 

Christine: Aw, 

Em: –but so that’s something you could do as adults also ’cause I would want to play that with you, whether or not Leona was there. 

Christine: For sure. 

Em: Um, I did put Ouija board. You know how I feel about Ouija boards, but I do– I, I’m not an idiot. I know someone wants to go to a cemetery and do that. So– 

Christine: And I’ve done it. So, I– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –as much as maybe that was probably not uh, you know, the thing to do. 

Em: I would say no. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Someone, someone would write in the comments and be like, “No Ouija board in a graveyard? Really?” And it’s like– 

Christine: And today, you know, maybe not in a place where it’s other people’s loved ones. I would not. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But, you know, back then as a, as a, as a young teen, um, I wasn’t drinking beer. I was doing Ouija boards in a graveyard. [laughs] So– 

Em: When your frontal lobe has not developed, I fully understand wanting to– 

Christine: Thank you. 

Em: –do a Ouija board in a cemetery. I mean, also like– 

Christine: –thinking it was a good idea. 

Em: –I’m terrified of Ouija boards just because I’ve seen some really creepy shit with them. Like at some point in my life– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –I also loved playing with Ouija boards and I would have absolutely wanted to go into a graveyard. 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I don’t know if you wanna, if you wanna answer this, but I gotta ask: did you ever make out in a graveyard? 

Christine: No. 

Em: How Wednesday Addams coded would that be? 

Christine: I know, but I didn’t– I wasn’t– I didn’t– I wanted to. I’ll tell you that. I would have. 

Em: Just no one wanted to kiss you? [laughs] 

Christine: No, I just didn’t have any prospects. 

Em: Aw, Christine. I would have totally done it. [laughs] 

Christine: I’m so– [laughs] I mean, listen, I, I, I– Yeah, I went to a very– It just was not– 

Em: It’s not too late. Blaise is right there. I’m just saying. He’s right there. 

Christine: It’s not in the cards. Maybe we’ll, we’ll do– Leona’s like, “I thought this was a date for you and me, Mom.” 

[laughs] 

Em: Um, okay. 

Christine: Have you made out in a graveyard/cemetery? 

Em: No, but it’s on m– If there– If Allison and I ever drove past a graveyard, I’d be like, “Get out of the car.” I just– 

Christine: Well, yeah. Have you never driven past a graveyard? What the fuck? [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I don’t think I’ve ever noticed. I’ve never paid attention, but– 

Christine: Oh, really? 

Em: No. 

Christine: They’re everywhere, dude. 

Em: I think it’s one of those things where now that we’re talking about it, I will see it everywhere. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, no, I think it’d be so– I don’t know why. I just like– just ’cause it’s spooky. 

Christine: And you’ll be like, “Why am I so turned on?” [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. I don’t even know if I would be doing it to be turned on. 

Christine: You’d be doing it for the bit. 

Em: It’d be more like just to check it off the list. Like– 

Christine: Yeah. I mean, honestly, I may have made out in a graveyard at some point in my life a– as an older person, but not in that graveyard. I don’t know. Not in that cemetery. 

Em: Well, I, I mainly ask you about this graveyard because it was like your backyard, and everyone like– You know, it’s the quintessential thing like, “Oh, you get like a first kiss like in your backyard,” and yours happens to be a fucking graveyard. You know what I mean? 

Christine: Yeah. I used to actually sit outside listening to Kelly Clarkson and thinking like, “Oh, I can’t wait for my first kiss to be out here.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I’m serious. And then just wasn’t in the cards. It was actually in a Chevy Impala, and it was just so bad and awkward. 

Em: It was like, like example on reclaiming this moment for yourself, if that’s something you would want to do, is that in my neighborhood, uh, a little bougier than your graveyard. So sorry, I grew up on a golf course. Um–[laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –but– 

Christine: Oh, I thought you meant right now. I was like, “Wait, what?” Oh, the– uh, yes. Your childhood. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: So, uh, and the golf course was always where like all the teens would like go and like hook up– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –and like get fucked up and like– Like I was always like, “Oh, man. I wish I was cool enough like that someone would invite me to like a, a party.” 

Christine: So actually, my other– So my dad’s house was on a golf course, and so that is where all the cool kids would be, and my parents would be like, “Go play with them.” And I’d be like, “No–” 

Em: They didn’t want to play with me. They wanted to go make out, yeah. 

Christine: “–they don’t want me to be there. They don’t want me to be there.” 

Em: Anyway, it was very nice that I, I gave Allison a tour, and I was like, “That’s the golf course I never got to hook up on.” And then we– She went out there, and we did a little– we just gave each other a kiss. Like nothing crazy, but like it was just so we could say– 

Christine: Yuck. 

Em: –I could say, “I’ve been kissed on the golf court,” because it– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –it had not happened, and it was like very overdue. Um, but it was nice. 

Christine: There you go. 

Em: So, I don’t know. Blaise, if you’re listening, go smooch your wife on a graveyard and just see what happens. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Just ’cause it’s– 

Christine: Just see what happens. 

Em: Just see what happens. I mean, just– Y–Maybe you’ll fall even more in love with each other. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, okay. Anyway, sorry to put you on the spot like that. I just w– I– 

Christine: No, listen. I’m happy to talk about it anytime. I just am– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: There’s nothing much to say, unfortunately. 

Em: I just wanted to know if you ever– ’cause I always felt like I missed out on that. So I didn’t know if you felt the same way, so. 

Christine: I also felt like I missed out on that– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –but in my own ways. Yes, so. 

Em: Um, the other thing– This is obvious. I’m so sorry to say like the boring ones but needs to be said– picnics. Um, because that– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –if you recall, I’ve talked about it before, um, with other graveyards, but like they were originally designed to be public spaces that people wanted to be a part of. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Um, did you know that? 

Christine: I did not really– No, I don’t think I knew that. 

Em: Yeah. So, well, I don’t know if it’s all graveyards– 

Christine: That makes sense. 

Em: –but a lot of them were designed to be public parks, so that way it wasn’t just a place where you dump a body that you never see again. 

Christine: Oh. Right, right, right. 

Em: It was supposed to be welcoming, so when you went to go visit your family, it would be a place that you wanted to stay. 

Christine: Your loved one– And that makes sense, right? Like people will, will gather and like bring– Yeah, like a blanket and some– and then just chat with their loved one. Like you see that on TikTok too. Like people will bring like their phones and– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –have like Mom talk to Dad who’s passed or whatever and like j– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –you know like update him on life and stuff. And I just think those are so sweet. So yeah, that’s uh. Yeah. Let’s bring that back. 

Em: They um– and also a lot of, uh, cemeteries for a while had like an open area, which was literally meant, I think, just to be a public park– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –so that way like you could go spend the weekends at the park, and then, “Oh, let’s go say hi to Dad or hi to Grandpa while we’re here.” And it was supposed to be– It was like– I feel like these days cemeteries are like, “Oh, we don’t go over there unless it’s for a sad reason.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: But it used to be in– The intention, at least at a lot of cemeteries, was– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –was to make sure that all those people stayed in the community, so they tried to make them communal spaces. 

Christine: I mean– Right, it makes sense. And like you would– In a community, like especially a smaller one, you’d know everyone and you’d know their families, and like it would be like somewhere that– Yeah, that would make sense. You like connect everybody. 

Em: You, you’d want to spend your weekend. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, especially when there wasn’t like– I, I’m talking like back in the day when there weren’t a lot of wild activities out there to do. Like there weren’t like– I don’t know. It was just– 

Christine: There was, there was bobbing for apples. [laughs] 

Em: There was bobbing for apples. And so um– 

Christine: Or like watching a public execution. [laughs] 

Em: Eugh. Um, but yeah, picnics were– used to be very common. I– It– Like people would just go out there and hang out. So I feel like we should bring that back and make um– 

Christine: Yeah, I like it. I like it. Little visits. 

Em: I feel like it’s just a little bit of a symbolism that like we’re no longer a village, you know? 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. 

Em: Um, okay. The one that I really like, and I have done this in graveyards before, and it’s so fun, is geocaching. Have you done that? 

Christine: [gasps] No. I’ve got– done geocaching but not in a graveyard. 

Em: It’s so fun. People have left things in graveyards before. Um– 

Christine: That’s so smart. Yeah, that’s very– that’s a perfect place for that. 

Em: Yeah. And for those who don’t know, geocaching is like– it’s– you can– There’s an app on your phone, and it’ll tell you like,”Oh, there’s this– Like there, there’s basically hidden treasure all over the city.” And the pl– the– there’s always like a little scroll or a piece of paper for you to write your name on to say like, “I’ve been here, and I’ve seen the prize.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And it’s sometimes like a penny, but the, the rule is always if you’re going to take the trinket that you find, you always have to put a new one back for the next person who comes here. But– And y– 

Christine: Yeah, it’s like a little scavenger hunt. 

Em: And you can see the log of all the people who have been here. Yeah, it’s like, it’s like scavenger hunting in your own town. So– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –I would suggest going to do that. That’s very cool. Um, I wrote, uh, some other things that I thought either you would enjoy– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –or I could see you wanting to like teach Leona, and this would be like a fun way to teach her. You know what I mean? 

Christine: I can’t wait. Yes. 

Em: So, one of them is, um, helping collect trash. Like always bring like an extra trash bag– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –and like just, uh, be mindful. 

Christine: That’s great. 

Em: Um, I know it’s like kind of silly, but if you wanted an activity– 

Christine: No! 

Em: –that’s also helpful. Um, another– 

Christine: Well, and I mean like a lot of places just really do, especially places like that. I mean, now this– the cemetery at my house has, uh, patrol becau– like a patrol because, um, because people are not nice and are disrespectful and will go in there and like do drugs– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –or make out but more than that– 

Em: Right, yeah. 

Christine: –and like you know do like– And by the way, having a window above it, my bedroom window, I heard all sorts of things back in the day– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –where I was like, “Jeez.” So now they actually have like a locked gate at night, like it’s closed– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –but back in the day it was just open, right? And like so I’d just wander out there, but now it’s more– But they have to patrol it now becau– and they have to pay to patrol it because people trash it, and– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So it’s kind of like frustrating, and yeah, I can– I think that’s a really great thing to, to help keep places like that clean ’cause someone has to, you know? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And it’s like why should the families of the loved ones who are there to just grieve or to like connect– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –have to deal with that? 

Em: And so it would teach your kid to be respectful of the environment. And then also, I thought you would really get a kick out of this one. I came up with this one on my own is build your own um– like an activity at home and then bring it to the, to the graveyard is like build your own little like, um, bee house, like a little– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and put it, print it next– or print it– put it in like the gardens and everything, so that way the flowers stay nice, and we save bees. 

Christine: Aw, a little pollinator, pollinator station. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Pollination station. 

Em: Pollination station. 

Christine: Cute. 

Em: Another one is, um, go collect rocks and then have Leona paint them, and then she can have little trinkets to give all the graves. 

Christine: Aw. That’s cute. 

Em: Um, another one (I was obsessed with this when I was a kid, so I thought Leona might like it) is when you like would put paper over a rough thing and then like– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –with the crayon– 

Christine: Oh my gosh. 

Em: –you could do that with the graveyar– with the gravestones. 

Christine: Or a pencil works really well. 

Em: Or pencil. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: And that way you can– 

Christine: Those are cool. They call– What’d they call it? Grave rubbing, I think? 

Em: Something, but yeah– 

Christine: I think there’s a word for it. 

Em: –that way we could like practice reading. “What could it mean?” Um, another one is– This is for when she’s older, but pick a grave and do an ancestry project on them. Um, bring a new– 

Christine: Oh, also I just looked it up and apparently, um, you just have to be cautious that it’s not a super duper old stone because it can harm it. 

Em: Sure. Okay. 

Christine: Just a side note before people clock in. But yes, uh, that– 

Em: Fair enough. Fair enough. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, don’t go to like a– I don’t know a thousands-year-old crumbling thing– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and put a crayon on it. But you guys– 

Em: Fair enough. 

Christine: –you know, you have common sense. People, just use common sense. 

Em: 100%. Um, another one I thought that would be a fun activity for the two of you and then you can go to the graveyard with it is to make wind chimes and then maybe hang them in a tree somewhere. 

Christine: Aw, that’s beautiful. 

Em: Um, I was trying– You said graveyard games, and I was like, “I don’t know. The games are gonna be activities.” I don’t know, man. 

Christine: I love activities, you know, and crafting. So this is a dream. 

Em: Uh, uh, this was one that I used to do. Um, not that I lived at a graveyard, but I used to go to them, um, and I tried to make it like the kid version. But like if she ever has like a new toy that she wants to like show off to people, she can like go to the graveyard and introduce it to people– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –and tell people all about her toy. I hope– 

Christine: What did you do that you did that when you were young? I need to know about that story. 

Em: Um, mine was uh– I was a really big like music nerd. Like I, I’m not anymore, but I used to– I have– I had like a whole phase where I was like a record collector and all this stuff, and– 

Christine: Oh, wow. 

Em: Um, so I used to go there and listen to music, and I wanted to like talk to someone about it, but I didn’t want to annoy anyone, so I would just like talk to like them about the music. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: [laughs] I’d be like, “And then this happens in the music video.” I don’t know. It was very silly. But, um– 

Christine: I like that though. Like why not, you know? 

Em: I also took that and thought for Leona, it’d be cool if like, um, if she– It’s so stupid. I’m sorry. I’m like assigning things to your kid. 

Christine: It’s not stupid. I want to know. 

Em: But like, uh, if she ever wanted to like make up a dance, she can go perform it for them. Like I don’t know. It’s– 

Christine: Oh, and she will, by the way, uh, sh– You don’t have to tell her twice. She’ll do a dance and like an entire vaudeville performance. 

Em: Um, another thing that I used to do which I– And again, I, I used to play k– I used to play Kick the Can in, in, uh, the cemetery near me, but it was like with the goal of like not trying to kick any– like I don’t want the can to like hit anyone. 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: But if a can rolled over that way, I took it as a sign that I should go talk to them. And so– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: You’re like playing Kick the Can with them, with the spirits. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I guess. Or I just kind of took it as like whoever wants to talk, I’m gonna kick the can and just if it rolls over to you, then I’m just gonna take it as a sign that you want to talk. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: And then I would learn about people that way. So, I thought that was fun. You could also do board games and puzzles. You could bring chalk, which is fun. Not for the actual graves, but like for the road. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Uh, one family I knew growing up, they would go to the graveyard to go Christmas caroling so they could still sing to their grandma. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: So, I thought you could do that. 

Christine: That’s nice. 

Em: Um, uh, you– I– There was a– The grade above us in school, they had a graveyard project where they had– They were teaching kids about different time periods. So each kid got to pick a grave, and then you had to learn about that time period, and then you brought them like a candy or a toy from that time period. 

Christine: Now, that’s so cool. 

Em: So you could pick– 

Christine: I love that ’cause then you really learn about like what they– when, when they lived and what it would have been like and– 

Em: Yeah. And then you don’t have to pig– 

Christine: –show respect. 

Em: You don’t have to pigeon hole yourself into like, “I don’t know anything about them,” but it’s like, “Oh, they’re from the ‘40s– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “–so maybe they would have liked this old magazine.” 

Christine: And they like lived in this area or whatever. Yeah, that’s really cool. I like that a lot. It’s so– And now with like, um, Ancestry and all this, like you could probably really do– 

Em: So much. 

Christine: A lot. Yeah. 

Em: Um, another one I thought would be cool is like creating a scavenger hunt and having to look through it. 

Christine: That’s cute. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Like find, uh, some– find twin– like a twin or something or find like um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –two people who were born on the same or born on the same day or have the same birthday as you or something. That could be a lot of fun little like– 

Em: Well, that was one too ’cause it was just her birthday, so I thought what if she found one that had her birthday and they would have a birthday party together. 

Christine: Aw, that’s cute. Bring a piece of cake. 

Em: Um, this is kind of a combi– a combination of that and a scavenger hunt. But I always thought this was so cool. I saw it on a TV show forever ago. If anyone else– if anyone remembers it, can you please write it ’cause I can’t remember the episode, but it was a cartoon with a graveyard in it. Must have been like something on Cartoon Network. I remember they had like some adult stuff, but, um, he– This is like so sad, but this little kid brought– It was his birthday, and he had an extra balloon, and so he walked through the graveyard, trying to find someone that shared his birthday so he could give them a balloon. 

Christine: [gasps] Aw. 

Em: So I thought that’d be kind of cool if– I would do this. Not like even for Leona. I think it’d be cool if like just get a balloon and then just your whole goal that day is to try to find someone in the graveyard that has– 

Christine: A birthday twin. 

Em: –or just has a birthday that day, like the day you walk in. 

Christine: Oh, that day. Yeah. 

Em: If they have a birthday, now you’ve got someone– now they get a gift. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Like I thought that was super cool. 

Christine: And just like– I don’t know. Maybe just in case nobody was able to visit that day for their birthday. Maybe– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –maybe you can visit. That’s really sweet. 

Em: Um, I thought this one was also neat, similar to like making a little bee hotel together, but you could set up a little free library and then that way there’s always books there. 

Christine: Yeah, that– That’s good always. Yeah, like that. 

Em: And then, um, this is how my ADHD brain would work and I would want to do this, but, um, try to learn all the flowers, so you can identify them. So when you walk by you, you go, “That one means this–“ 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: “–and that one means this, and that one means this.” 

Christine: That’s cute. 

Em: Same with, um, the symbolism on– like all the signs on a grave like what do they mean and like statues. 

Christine: That’s smart. Yeah. 

Em: Did you ever hear about like the horse statue code? 

Christine: A little bit, but I don’t really know it that well. 

Em: A-Apparently, if you ever see in a, in a graveyard um– 

Christine: Oh, with the– Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. 

Em: No, no, no. Just– Go ahead if you, if you know it. 

Christine: Is it the where if or in a painting where you see– if you see a horse with one leg up– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –it’s like they died in combat or something? 

Em: Yeah. So if you ever see a horse statue, if it has all four feet on the ground, it died of natural causes. If only one foot is up, it means that they died from an injury in battle. And if they’re like– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –if they’re two feet up and they’re basically standing, it means they died during battle. 

Christine: But the, the person, right? Like not the horse? 

Em: No, the horse. 

Christine: Oh, the horse? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh, I thought it was about the person riding the horse. 

Em: Maybe? I don’t know, but I’ve always heard it was the horse. 

Christine: Oh, I only know about it in paintings, so maybe it’s like different in, you know, statues. 

Em: Oh. Anyway, but there’s like a lot of– 

Christine: So are there horse graves there? 

Em: That’s a great question, but I’ve always heard it’s literally called a horse code, so I was– Like Morse code. That’s funny. Um– 

Christine: Oh-ho. 

Em: –but I always thought it was about the actual horse themselves. I don’t know. Are you looking it up? 

Christine: Yeah, I’m curious. Okay. Equest– Oh, it’s on Snopes. That’s good. Um, equestrian statue code. Oh, for– “folk wisdom has it that equestrian statues contain a code whereby the rider’s fate can be determined by noting how many hooves the horse has raised.” 

Em: Okay. You were right. 

Christine: “The most common theory is that if one hoof is raised, the rider was wounded in battle. Uh, two raised hooves, death in battle. All four hooves, the rider survived. But apparently this is malarkey.” Uh– 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: Hold on. “The hoof code mostly holds true in terms of Gettysburg equestrian statues.” 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: So, you might be on to something there. “Although even that site includes at least one exception. Uh, however, even the most cursory look at the statues around other sites, such as DC, uh, quickly disproves that it holds general sway.” So maybe it’s just like more some areas like or some wars or some– 

Em: So interesting. 

Christine: Yeah. Um, oh, Virgi– “An additional rumored statue code is prevalent in Virginia’s Monument Avenue in Richmond.” Uh, [skimming] duh-duh-duh-duh. And that they’re facing a certain way, but apparently that’s not even true either. Sorry. 

Em: Oh, oops. 

Christine: Shoot. I thought that was gonna be a– 

Em: That was going to blow my mind. 

Christine: –fun fact. Um– Oh, and then it says, “(Please don’t write to tell us that the odds of a given person’s manner of death matching the correct statuta– statuary code are one in nine, not one in three. The latter is correct.” Wow. Okay. 

Em: Okay, relax. 

Christine: So they’re like, “Don’t even fucking try.” 

Em: Um, okay. Good to know. Shit. 

Christine: Okay, sorry. Now I feel like a party pooper. 

Em: But no, but see– 

Christine: But I’d heard that, too. 

Em: –now you could go to a graveyard and go, “Well, actually–“ you know? 

Christine: I can go, “Liars.” 

Em: [laughs] Um, and on top of that, like– So there was a, a bunch of different– Like I feel like this is something Tim would do, but like to go around and know the name of like every symbol and every shape of the gravestone. Do you know how many fucking shapes of gravestones there are? 

Christine: Oh. I don’t even think I’ve ever thought about it. 

Em: I didn’t either, but apparently– ’Cause I was like, “What do you do in graveyards? What do some people do?” And there was like a whole Reddit page of like people being like, “This is my favorite shape of monument.” And I’m like, “What the fuck?” 

Christine: What? 

Em: Um, so I’m just going to read some of them to you, so you know how many there are. 

Christine: Please. 

Em: And how fun would it be if you– I mean, there’s nothing more Wednesday Addams than Leona growing up one day and going, “It’s not even a– whatever gravestone.” 

Christine: Right, “It’s not even a mortuary whatever, duh-duh-duh.” Yeah. Yeah. “It’s obviously this.” Oh my god. 

Em: So this– these are some of the most popular ones. 

Christine: I’m so excited. Okay. 

Em: Square top, check top, arc top, arc top with shoulders– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –ogee, half-ogee, half-round, peon top, serpentine, heart, book, round, bench, a-animal, rustic, cross, footstone, bedstead, plaque marker, raised top, in socket, on base, pulpit marker, rectangle– 

Christine: [under her breath] What the fuck? 

Em: –bevel, floral, flat, slanted, upright, or government issue. 

Christine: Jesus. Oh my lord. Okay, wow. 

Em: It’s like the Duggars. It’s like just li– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So– 

Christine: It’s like it just doesn’t end. 

Em: If you wanted to be a “well, actually” person, I’m just saying you could absolutely and teach her– 

Christine: [sighs] Clearly. 

Em: –teach her what all the symbols mean ’cause I’ve always been fascinated like, “What does it mean when there’s a fucking lion on the–?” 

Christine: Yes, I do too. I would love to know. 

Em: Do you want to guess what the top three symbols on a gravestone are? Like the most, the most used? 

Christine: Um, a cross. 

Em: Duh. 

Christine: Uh, I don’t know. I’m gonna say a sheep because that was on that one. Or a lamb. 

Em: That was one of them, but not in the top three. 

Christine: Okay. Um, a, a heart? Probably not. 

Em: Another top contender, but no. 

Christine: Um, a– Symbols. And is this just on the top or is this like anywhere on it? 

Em: I think just on it. I’m not too sure. 

Christine: A, uh, an infinity symbol? No. 

Em: Oh, that’s a good guess. No, this– The other two are angel and dove. 

Christine: Oh, okay. I mean, that makes sense. Yeah. 

Em: A little obvious. I was trying to– 

Christine: I should have gone more traditional in my guess. 

Em: [sighs] I really wanted to blow your mind with something, but I couldn’t. So– 

Christine: But if you think about like how many graves are from thousands and thousands and thousands of years ago, like– I mean, not here necessarily, but– 

Em: I would– That’s a great p– That’s a great point though because I would be fascinated to see what the numbers look like on that. Like forever ago, I would think most graves had a cross or something on it. Some– 

Christine: Any Christian-affiliated person would have a cross even if they w– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. It would just be the norm probably. 

Em: But as religion kind of falls to the wayside, I wonder what the n-now most popular symbols would be on a gravestone. 

Christine: I wonder too. I wonder too. 

Em: I did look it up– 

Christine: I bet a heart would be up there. 

Em: Probably. I did see that a dragon apparently to some means religious sin. And I was like, “I just know there’s some metalass person who’s going to put a dragon.” 

Christine: Oh my god. I hope to find that someday. 

Em: Would you like me to throw a couple symbols your way and you guess what they mean? 

Christine: Yes. Yes, absolutely. 

Em: Uh, a rooster. 

Christine: What? That’s on there? 

Em: Apparently so. 

Christine: Um, so is it like a symbol about how they died or just like a general symbol of some– 

Em: Unfortunately, they’re kind of like the– 

Christine: Vague? 

Em: –like a, a boring meaning of– 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: So, yeah. 

Christine: So– I was like, “It means he died at the crack of dawn.” Uh– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “He loved those chickadees, yeah.” 

Christine: “He loved a cock or two.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Okay, sorry. I for– I regret saying that out loud. Uh, maybe it means, um, diligence. I don’t know. 

Em: Close. Vigilance. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. So I telepathically got my wires crossed with you. Okay, got it. 

Em: And actually – cockadoodle-do – it– Awakening, which it does awaken people. 

Christine: Okay, that makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Um, another one is ivy. 

Christine: Oh, ivy. I bet ivy symbolizes, um, eternity. 

Em: Shut the fuck up, Christine. You’re so good at this. Um– 

Christine: What? 

Em: Because, I guess, ivy stays green forever. Don’t tell Allison, but we have ivy outside, and I certainly killed it. It ain’t green. Um, but allegedly– 

Christine: [laughs] You live in California. All bets are off when it comes to plants. 

Em: Allegedly, ivy stays green forever, so it is a symbol for immortality and eternal life. 

Christine: Oh, I killed it. I had no idea. Sorry, bad pun. 

Em: Uh, another– We’ll just do another quick one. This one’s kind of maybe obvious, but a buttercup, like the flower. 

Christine: Oh, like spring or, or rebirth? I don’t know. 

Em: Uh, happiness, cheerfulness. 

Christine: Okay, so I just was– Yeah, I was just guessing. Um– 

Em: Um, the other ones were way too obvious. I was like, “A cross. What could a cross mean?” You know? 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. Uh– 

Em: Although I did see one where it was like a vessel with light in it means love for the Lord, but an urn with light in it means friendship. 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: I don’t– 

Christine: With light in it? 

Em: Apparently, that’s what that means. 

Christine: What do you mean light in it? Like a light bulb? 

Em: Like a, like a flame, I think. I don’t know. 

Christine: Oh, I was thinking like you put like a light bulb in it. I was like, “Is that a thing?” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Okay, I– I’m sorry. Yes, I understand. Like a little flame. 

Em: Um, but yeah. So, anyway, the– Another thing you guys could do, I guess, is just learn all the symbols together. So, now I’m just gonna read real quick the, um, things that– 

Christine: This is so fun. I’m like– This is so cool. 

Em: Is it? I feel like this is so boring. I like– 

Christine: No, it’s so fun. 

Em: Okay. Thank you for saying it louder. 

Christine: Everybody, agree with me. 

Em: [laughs] I appreciate you. I– 

Christine: Like I– I’m– Like I love going to my mom’s, but I’m always like, “Oh, we’re just– You know, Leona’s just gonna want to play like Candyland for three hours.” Now I’m like, “Oh my god, we have so much to do outside.” 

Em: Well, one thing I was going to say, which actually, let me send you this form. 

Christine: “Could we play Candyland in the cemetery?” Leona is going to ask me, so I should– 

Em: I’m saying, I literally– I, I put board games and puzzles. I– 

Christine: Hell yeah. 

Em: Maybe not a puzzle because you’re kind of– You have to finish it. You know what I’m saying? 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then you’re asking for lost pieces, you know? But um– 

Em: 100%. Um– 

Christine: I would do– I would– Like, like Shoots and Ladders could be fun. Yeah. 

Em: Here is a form I found. It’s called “Burial Grounds Family Activities.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And someone made this little form of like things to do with your kids when they’re in a cemetery. 

Christine: Aw. Hey, that’s super sweet, you know, especially ’cause people like have lost like loved ones or if they’ve lost like a sibling or, you know, a– someone in the family, a parent– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –like that can be really a cool healing thing– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –I imagine. How cool is that? 

Em: So one of, one of the activities is: “Find all the flowers. What plants are there?” 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: “Can you tell the difference? Do a drawing of the flowers. Can you color a leaf?” Like it’s like very sweet. And then they have religious symbols that you can go try to find. They have other symbols you can go try to find. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: And then they have a list of some of those headstone shapes. So it’s just like to play easy games. 

Christine: Oh my god, look at this. 

Em: Yeah, someone made that. I was like, “That sounds like something– That’s– I feel like I would do something like that.” 

Christine: I love this, that it’s like, “tulip means life,” and like, “rose means love,” and “poppy means death, eternal sleep.” I’m like, “Whoa.” 

Em: Ahh! 

Christine: “Okay, that got intense real fast.” 

Em: Um, but I did think from that– I, I don’t– I’m sure maybe there’s an Etsy something somewhere, but it would be cool if you decided to create like your own little bingo chart. 

Christine: Bingo? Yes. Hell yeah. 

Em: And then the two of you could scavenger hunt until you finish bingo over there. I think that’d be cool. 

Christine: Oh my god. I mean, literally, we just need to c– like collab with these people ’cause they have all the symbols and like drawed– drawn out. We just need to like put them on a little– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh my god, how cool. 

Em: And you can make them go even harder because instead of it– “find a flower,” it could be like, “find the one that means purity,” you know? It’s like– 

Christine: Yeah, like little hidden meanings and s– Oh my god, this is so fun. Like a little scavenger hunt bingo thing. 

Em: So, in the adult section, I also have picnic. Again, geocaching. Although, I think it would be– I think it would blow Leona’s fucking mind if you were like, “Let’s go to the graveyard. I know where there’s treasure.” All of a sudden, she’s gonna w– 

Christine: “Let’s hunt for treasure.” 

Em: She’s gonna go there all the time. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, I also said– I tried to like put them– 

Christine: And then we have to tell the people when we go in there, and they’re like, “What do you do? Do you have family here?” And she’s like, “No, we’re just like digging for treasure.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And they’re gonna be like, “Um, actually, that’s called grave robbing, please. Thank you.” 

Em: “Um, yeah, I’m gonna call the police.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah, “The police are already here.” They, they knew. 

Em: I tried to cater these to you because you’re the only one I know with a graveyard. So– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –these are things that– 

Christine: At my disposal. 

Em: –if for some reason Leona is not around and you just wanted your own time in the graveyard– I feel– It feels condescending telling you what to do in your own backyard, but these are some new things you can try. 

Christine: Listen, I’m, I’m loving it. I don’t, I don’t have any clue to mysel– my-myself. You already gave me make out. I have that on the list, so. 

Em: So that should be at the top. Um. 

Christine: Yep, it is. 

Em: Then there is, uh, obviously listening to music, reading, journaling. Those are standards. 

Christine: Aw, I d– Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Uh, maybe read them the newspaper if anything interesting is going on– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: –just to catch them up and be like, “Girl, you are missing out over here.” 

Christine: Just in case anything int– You’re missing out? You’re not missing out. I’ll tell them that much. 

Em: [laughs] Uh, another one. I thought you would fucking love this one– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –is you find like a married couple one or a family plot– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and do horoscopes of their compatibilities. 

Christine: [gasps] And then start some family drama. Like– 

Em: Yeah. And be like, “I bet the two of you fucking hated this thing about each other.” 

Christine: “Rose, you and Ira, I can tell there was a clash for sure–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–especially when it came to like keeping the home, you know, your approach to that.” Wow. I would probably get an entire family of people following me home to yell at me. I don’t know. 

Em: Well, here’s the other thing. On top of figuring out their compatibil– compatibilities to horoscopes, I thought you could also, um, practice tarot with them and just like– 

Christine: Oh, that’s cool. Give tarot readings. 

Em: –do a spread and let the winds kind of pull one out. 

Christine: That’s a really cool idea. 

Em: Or you could practice– 

Christine: I’m sure some people would not approve of that, but I think it’s a great idea. 

Em: I think it’s cool. Or like meditate and see if you can kind of sense which one feels right for them, you know? 

Christine: Aw. And then it says [in a scary voice] “the devil.” 

Em: It says, “Get out of my fucking space.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Another one I thought you would get a kick out of is bird watching, of course. 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: And then if you were able to go at night, which I think you’re maybe the only person on earth who can if you’re– technically if your old bedroom is right above it, you are– 

Christine: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Em: –maybe in the graveyard, right? 

Christine: Oh, I mean, I mean technically I’m probably not allowed anymore. I’ll have to check. But, um, I think they only closed it up mostly so that people don’t like go do illicit things in there. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But yes, I do have access technically. 

Em: I was gonna say you could learn– I don’t– I always forget the difference between astronomy and astrology, but you could learn to go stargazing. 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, I love this. Uh, stargazing, yeah. 

Em: Yeah, I’ve always– 

Christine: I love stargazing. 

Em: I’ve always wanted to be that person who’s like, “Oh, there’s Hercules. Oh, you can’t see it? Oh, that’s crazy. You can’t see him?” 

Christine: Oh my lord. You know what, Em? You know, it’s so beautiful. You can do that. You can just go outside and say, “There’s Hercules. You don’t see it?” 

Em: I could– 

Christine: And like everyone would probably be– Well, actually, we know a lot of smart people. They’d probably be like, “Um, you’re full of shit.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But I do know Orion’s Belt, and I brag about that one all the time. 

Em: That really– That one and then being able to see, um, Neptune and Jupiter. Those are my only three skills. 

Christine: Big Dipper. You got any action on that Big Dipper? 

Em: Ooh! 

Christine: That Little Dipper? 

Em: I haven’t thought about Big D in a while. I miss her. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, I know. Me too. Let’s go to the graveyard. We’ll find her. 

Em: [laughs] Um, another one I thought was you could bring– if you were having like a truly a me time experience or if you felt brave enough to do this with Leona– I say brave in terms of mess. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –um, is that the two of you could go out and have a, a Bob Ross day and like do a little painting or something or– 

Christine: [gasps] That’s cute and paint like what we see and like little trees. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh, that’s cute, Em. 

Em: Um, another one is card games, board games. I already said that. Yoga. Host a book club, spooky book club, out there. 

Christine: And sit on the little benches and do a book club. That’s a great idea. 

Em: And then, um, I will say there was a lot of opinions online about– Hi Mimis. Someone just woke up from a nap. 

Christine: Hi. Oh, sorry. I thought you were talking– 

Em: [laughs] Uh, there was, um, a lot of controversy on witch’s opinions of all you should be doing in a grave ’cause like– in a graveyard– ’Cause I guess graveyard dirt is incredibly powerful. You can get herbs from over there and certain plants from over there. But I– 

Christine: Oh, I see. Like as far as witchy like as like– Yeah. 

Em: Yes. I would, I would redirect people to other sources other than myself on what’s appropriate there. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. When it comes to like magic, I feel like maybe– Yeah, yeah. Be, be, uh, conscientious of sourcing your materials. Yeah. I, I, I agree. 

Em: But when, but when looking up activities to do in a graveyard, a lot of sources were like, “If you’re a witch, this is a great place to basically go shopping,” and I was like, “That doesn’t feel right. That doesn’t feel right.” 

Christine: Oh god. And also like in a lot of– in some cultures, uh, placing stones on the graves is like very symbolic. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So like you don’t want to be just like taking rocks that are meant for the fam– Yeah, anyway. 

Em: Right, right. Yeah. I would think if you’re taking anything from there, it should be in like the communal random shrub next to the road, you know. 

Christine: Yeah, and like you know, make sure it’s cool and everything. Yeah. That feels like a recipe for, for some trouble if you don’t. [chuckles] 

Em: 100%. Um, and then I was just going to throw at the end that, fun fact, there are a lot of cemeteries that do host events, so it’s kind of like– 

Christine: Oh, cool. 

Em: You know how like libraries throw events ’cause they’re like, “Please come to the library. Please come.” 

Christine: Of course, they’re like, “Books are cool,” and I’m like, “I know.” 

Em: I feel like cemeteries are doing that too where there have been– In different towns, people have started doing, um, art, art fairs at, at cemeteries. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: They have started doing obviously walking tours at some of them that are more famous. Um, there are movies in the park. 

Christine: That’s cool. Yep, yep. 

Em: In LA, we have one every Halloween where they do horror movies in the cemetery which is super cool. Um, so yeah that is everything I think you can do in a graveyard. 

Christine: That is so great, and the fact that we’re doing this like– I mean, as we recorded this it’s a Friday, October 3rd, but like spooky season is upon us. Like I, I never really feel prepared for spooky season. And now I’m like, “Oh, in my own backyard, I can just kind of wander around and like–“ It’s under all these beautiful trees, so it’s like, “Oh, as fall rolls in, it is the most beautiful time to go there.” So yeah, I really– Actually this was– I don’t know why this was my, uh, Halloween wish, but thank you for making it come true. 

Em: Yeah. I– Well, if, if it weren’t you and it was someone who does not make such a mess, I would have also suggested like go carve pumpkins out in the cemetery or something, but that just seems like a real hassle. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. You know me. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Seems like a real hassle. 

Christine: You know me and my– Yeah, it’s gonna be a bad, bad– I probably won’t be asked back, you know. 

Em: But I– No, but I– I mean, honestly, how cool would that be too if like one day Leona wants to have like birthday parties in the cemetery. 

Christine: Oh, See, I’ve– I mean, listen, she’d just be– My mom would be like, “Not again. Been there, done this.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, but I– She doesn’t go to Catholic school, so you know, that would be a little easier, I think, than inviting my old friends who were like– or my old classmates– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –who were like, “I don’t think my mom will like this very much.” 

Em: I’d go to that party. That sounds fun as hell. But, um– 

Christine: Yeah, you, you would. That’s why I feel like we missed out um, you know, having each other in our class, but– 

Em: I know. Anyway, I– 

Christine: –we weren’t ready. The world wasn’t ready. 

Em: I, I f– I hope that you learned something that you can go do. I like the idea of– 

Christine: I learned a lot. 

Em: –bingo, scavenger hunts, make a wind chime. Love it. 

Christine: I can’t believe like I’d never thought of all these things. Like I was so goddamn bored in, in middle school, high school, like playing by myself, not making out with a single soul– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and meanwhile– and all I’m doing is reading and journaling. I could have been doing scavenger hunts. Like shit. 

Em: I’m just saying. I, I think it would be– If I were a kid and I had access to an interesting yard– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and my mom grew up there who knew like all the ins and outs of it, I– And I knew that there was like maybe treasure around there or like, “Oh, let’s, let’s go buy a– Let’s go find a balloon in the basement and blow it up and like go find someone who has a birthday today.” Like things like that I think that– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –or I really need you to do the horoscope one and like go find if people are compatible with each other. I think that would be so fun. 

Christine: Do you think that I would get in big trouble if I did that on TikTok? ’Cause I feel like that could be really– a fun little like– 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: –a fun little bit. 

Em: I think there would be someone who has pro– 

Christine: But I don’t want everyone going, “That’s disrespectful,” and I don’t want it– I’m not saying I don’t want people to say that. I just don’t want it to actually be, you know, disresp– 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: So I’m trying to– I need to feel out the situation. Chime in, folks, if that’s, if that’s something that feels way not cool. Um, because I would love to spend more time there, and I feel like there’s rarely anybody in there, and it’s maintained beautifully. Like the people who, who– It’s a private cemetery, so people who like put money into it, you know, um, take good care of it, but there’s rarely anyone in there. So I’d like to take walks up there and like just sit and– You know, they have benches. It’s really beautiful. So, yeah, it would be cool to like get more time outside. 

Em: We could als– I like that. I mean, also, if you wanted to team up, I– You know how much I love Ancestry. If you just sent pictures of the ones you’re doing horoscopes for– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: –I would happily learn everything I could about them for you. 

Christine: And then we could t– 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: –we could be like, “Oh, how like– How does this– How’s this compatible?” 

Em: I love that. 

Christine: Right? 

Em: Dude, that’s like that fucking show with the investigator and the psychic. 

Christine: Yes. Uh-huh. TM, TM. 

Em: I think– So, you do the horoscope and the tarot. I’ll try to find as much history as I can, and then that’ll be the– That’s the TikTok right there. Fucking bada bing bada boom. 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: Did we just do that? 

Christine: All right. Wow. See, this is what happens. And we haven’t even started the intermission yet, and we’re already like– 

Em: I know it. 

Christine: –rock ’n rolling. I think that’s what we should talk about. Or wait, are you done yet or no? 

Em: Nope. The, the end. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Good. ’Cause I’m ready to jump into this brand new idea, and I do have to pee. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So that’s perfect. 

Em: So okay. We’re gonna go pee, and then we’re gonna do Patreon, and then we’re gonna do crime. 

Christine: Em, awesome story. I loved it. Uh, don’t change a thing. No notes. 

Em: [laughs] Stay perfect, baby. Yeah. 

Christine: Stay perfect, baby. No notes. I loved it. 

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Christine’s Story – Helen Brach 

Christine: All right. Well, we’re back from another rousing business meeting where we’ve changed the world yet again. Like how often can we do it? 

Em: [chuckles] You are so welcome, everybody. 

Christine: Mm, yeah. Again, you’re welcome. Um, so, you know, Em, do you remember what your Halloween wish was yesterday when we discussed today’s episode? 

Em: No, I d– I really don’t. 

Christine: You asked for something about candy. 

Em: Ooh! 

Christine: And you know, I had already– I, I said, “Absolutely, I’m gonna find it.” And I did. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Just to like lay the groundwork here, I did. But at first when I googled it, I was like, “Oh, shit. I’ve already done the Candy Man, uh, Dean Corll.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: “I’ve already done, um, uh, O’Bry– Uh, his name is Brian or O’Bryan, and he, he killed his own child like with poison Pixy Stix.” Like so– 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: I’ve done those, you know, kind. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: But I found a candy murder that is completely different from that. I cannot believe– I guess I should say a disappearance– because I have never heard of this story. This is the disappearance of Helen Brach, the heiress to the Brach Candy Fortune. B-R-A-C-H. 

Em: Shut the hell up. 

Christine: Are you kidding me? 

Em: Your brain plus the internet is unstoppable. 

Christine: I mean, I didn’t think so, but now I might agree with you. [laughs] I was very like– 

Em: Well done. 

Christine: I was like, “How is this–?” And then I found a couple episodes, like True Crime All The Time did an episode. Um, the only other one I could really find was uh, Crime Junkie, but they, they only did a bonus episode, so I– It was like, “Pay for it,” and I was like, “No.” Um, so– 

Em: You know what is also– 

Christine: –Helen Brach– 

Em: –this is– I’m sure you’re about to tell us this, but Brach, that’s the one that makes the candy corn, which is very Halloween. 

Christine: That’s exactly right. They make the candy corn, and they make, um, candy hearts too, I think, was their other like really big– And like caramels. Uh, but yeah, they make the candy corn. So, holy shit. I hadn’t even really put that together. That– 

Em: How perfect. 

Christine: Here we go. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And it’s like I did it on purpose, but not really. It’s like you suggested it, and I found it, and it was perfect. 

Em: Oh, wow. Okay. Okay, I just looked up their– 

Christine: What a tale. 

Em: –products they sell. So, um, that– 

Christine: Oh, yeah, do you want to say some so that like we can give people an idea of like how massive this brand is? Just like– 

Em: Oh, sure. Yeah. Um, they make the– like the main jelly beans. Like not– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: They make like not um– not Jelly Belly, but like those big thick ones for Easter with like the– 

Christine: Oh, those. 

Em: –the thick ones. 

Christine: Yes, okay. So, they– They’re like really into the holiday candy then, I guess. They– 

Em: They are– They’re, um, on the webs– on Google, if you type in Brach’s candy, the first thing it says is “Brach’s seasonal candy.” So– 

Christine: Oh, okay. So, okay, that makes sense. 

Em: So, yeah. I’m sure they do the caramels for Halloween. Um– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And then they do peppermint for– uh, peppermint bites or pieces, like the, the big thick pillowy peppermint ones. 

Christine: Yes. Oh, I like those. 

Em: They do that for, um, Christmas. And then, um, they– Peppermint candy in general is them. The circles with the red and white stripe. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: That’s them. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: So. 

Christine: They’re like the very like basic like– but not in a bad way, but just like the original– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –candy brand I feel like in the US– 

Em: Love it. 

Christine: –like the, the big one for, for seasonal candy. Um, so yeah. So Brach’s, uh, very successful, uh, brand of candy, um, very fitting here. I– How– What do you feel about candy corn? Um, I don’t f– 

Em: Don’t fucking insult me like that. 

Christine: I don’t feel good about it either. 

Em: Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: Um, my– 

Em: I know Xandy likes it. I don’t even want to talk about it. 

Christine: I know. And he’s like vegan, and I’m like, “What a ridiculous thing to miss–“ 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: “–from being not vegan.” You know, he’s like, “I just miss candy corn.” I’m like, “You’re sick,” you know. Um– 

Em: I can’t even– And I have to ask, was he a candy corn person where like he would have like three or four and then he was like, “Oh, that’s enough”? Or did he do it like by the handful? 

Christine: No, he like loved them. Like he would like eat them like a person eats an M– eats a handful of M&Ms. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Like it’s gross. 

Em: I gave him a shot just now. I tried. 

Christine: I know. You tried to give him an out, and he said, as a, as himself, he staunchly remains in his position. Um, and anyb– 

Em: Like I just can’t imagine like a, like a squirrel cheek full of ca– like just chewing into a big wall of candy corn. 

Christine: I mean, they’re so– And they’re so waxy. It’s just like, “What are you doing?” 

Em: God damn it. That’s disgusting. 

Christine: I’m not into candy corn. 

Em: I’m so sorry. 

Christine: I’ll be so honest. And I love lots of weird things. We know that. So, I’m sorry, everyone. I know there are candy corn diehards out there. I see you. Because there are some things that I feel that way about that I’m sure most don’t agree with, but I just can’t get there for you. I’m sorry. 

Em: There’s a, there’s a pot for every lid. But– 

Christine: I mean, that’s right, and– 

Em: A lid for every pot. I just don’t– I just– I’m not that for you. I’m– I just don’t get it. 

Christine: I just refuse to be that lid for your pot. 

Em: [laughs] I’m just– I’m not her. Go somewhere else. 

Christine: Don’t cover me. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Don’t cover your pot with my lid, if you know what I’m saying. And also– 

Em: Don’t let me stifle you. You eat your shitty candy corn with a p– lidless. Lidless. Go for it. 

Christine: And like– Your lidless candy corn. And also, if you think about it, like an entire candy fortune was basically built off this, and now it’s more symbolic– I feel like candy corn’s everywhere, like visually, not necessarily like the can– It has staying power, this stuff. I don’t know why, but it’s still, it’s still a mainstay. 

Em: As, as someone who owns candy corn– Or no, Xandy doesn’t anymore. Shit. I, I would like to see someone actually take all candy corn and stack it as if it is a cob of candy corn. 

Christine: Oh, as a cob of candy corn? That’s genius. 

Em: Because they, they are oversized. They’re supposed– 

Christine: They’re supposed to be a kernel. 

Em: They’re supposed to be corn kernels. 

Christine: How did I never like cross tha– I never got that. 

Em: Why hasn’t anyone just taken a big also– 

Christine: Maybe someone has. 

Em: –disgusting piece of candy like core, and then just– 

Christine: Someone has to have done that. 

Em: –use frosting and put a bunch of little co– 

Christine: Oh, Em, it’s a thing. 

Em: Is it? 

Christine: It’s absolutely a thing. 

Em: I’m gonna go look it up right now. 

Christine: And it looks like my nightmare. 

Em: Candy corn– 

Christine: Type in “candy corn cob.” 

Em: –cob. 

Christine: “Candy corn on the cob.” 

Em: Okay, at least someone’s done it. I mean, that’s disgusting, but at least someone’s done it. 

Christine: Like I never really understood that this was supposed to look like the changing colors of a corn kernel in the shape of a corn kernel. I think I just– My brain never really– 

Em: Well, technically the orange part should be lighter yellow. It should be from white to yellow. So it should be white, white yellow, and yellow. 

Christine: Yeah, but– 

Em: I hate this altogether. There’s no– 

Christine: This is so bad. 

Em: There’s no rhyme or reason to why this exists. 

Christine: And to like roll them up and then eat them like in a bite makes me just want to scream. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Really, it does. And I’m, I’m– 

Em: I just hate it so much. 

Christine: I’m so sorry everyone, but that’s just a heinous act. Um, so listen, people became bajillionaires because of it. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: So, whatever. It had its– It has its fan base. I know that. But, so we’re gonna get into the disappearance of Helen Brach, the heiress to the Brach Candy Fortune. So, Helen Marie Voorhees Brach. She was born November 10, 1911, in Unionport, Ohio, to a family of postal employees. She married her high school sweetheart in 1928, but by age 21, she was divorced and was starting over. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: She eventually moved to Florida where she worked as a coat check girl. And as a coat check girl, one day, she met Frank Brach, heir to the Chicago-based E.J. Brach & Sons Candy Company. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: He was married, but she used her feminine wiles on him. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: He was a much– not a much older man, but he was an older man. I believe– I think 22 years, something like that. Um, I believe she was 38, and he was 50 something. I mean, it could have been 15, 20 years. I don’t know. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: But so either way, uh, there was an age discrepancy, and there was some scandal surrounding, uh, you know, him leaving his wife for this younger coat check girl– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –as you can imagine, societally speaking. They married in 1950, and their life together revolved around, uh, multiple homes in Glenview, Illinois and Florida’s Fisher Island, which is like a very wealthy area. The couple were pretty quiet. They kept to themselves. They didn’t socialize often. Frank, however, died in 1970, uh, 20 years after they were married, and it was pretty unexpected. And Helen was left a widow. Uh, and she ended up inheriting every single asset of this man’s. 

Em: God, you know that first wife is pissed. 

Christine: Oh, yes. Correct. 

Em: [laughs] Like, come on. 

Christine: Correct. Uh, she ended up– I don’t know that that’s correct by when I say like “correct.” I don’t– 

Em: I would be, yeah. 

Christine: –specifically know, but I’m– What I’m saying is I don’t even know if she was still alive. Like I don’t know. 

Em: Sure. But in an imaginary world, if you found out that your– you could have had that inheritance– 

Christine: Like I don’t actually know. But in a w– in a hypothetical– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: In a, in a hypothetical, like that’s a rough one, es– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like I don’t know if he had kids either, but that’s– It’s just rough. So either way, uh, whatever happened, she inherited everything. And, um, she was devastated because even though she had made it pretty clear from early on that her goal was to marry a millionaire– Like she wanted a life– She wanted a life where she could be, you know, the w– the wife of a millionaire. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: And this was very important to her. But people say they actually were, you know, really in love. And when her husband died, she was just bereft. So as a result– I don’t want to say as a result, but after this, as she got older and was single, she became more eccentric. So she fed filet mignon to the dogs. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, she– Which nowadays is– isn’t even that weird, I guess, you know, like– 

Em: Uh, I’m sure there’s somebody who does it. 

Christine: Ri-rich people do weirder things with like feed– you know, people whatever. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, she once chartered a plane to sit with a dying pet. Like she went to– She chartered a plane to go see, to see a dying pet. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, and then she poured her fortune into animal welfare. So, you know, some say eccentric; I say um, perfectly reasonable and honorable. 

Em: I also– And not joking. It’s like, “Okay, so you gave your dog some steak? I give my dog some steak.” 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Like, I mean, I give my dog the scraps after I eat the good part, but maybe she’s– She’s got more fucking money than me, so whatever. 

Christine: Yeah, really. I mean, she actually founded the Helen V. Brach Foundation, which continues today. That was founded in 1974. So, we want to fast forward now to, uh, 1977. It’s February. Um, her husband has been deceased for about seven years now, and she’s 65. Helen checked into the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota, for a routine medical visit. And afterward, she stopped at the Buckskin Gift Shoppe inside the Zumbro Hotel. I can only imagine those don’t exist anymore, but I hope they do. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] The clerk, Phyllis Redalen, remembered Helen being in a hurry. She was shopping there. Um, and she told the clerk, “I’m in a, I’m in a rush. My houseman is waiting,” which like we don’t totally know what that means. She did have a butler back at the house. Um, and so– 

Em: She said “houseman”? What, what man? What–? 

Christine: “My houseman.” 

Em: Houseman. Okay. 

Christine: Yeah. So, Helen purchased a $27.50 jewelry box and a $12.50 soap dish for her niece, and she asked them to wrap them up, um, said she was in a hurry, and this was the last independent sighting of her alive. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: From there, accounts kind of diverge. So, airline crew on the flight to Chicago did not recall her presence on the plane. Um, but Helen’s houseman and chauffeur, which is, I guess, what most sources called her butler, but she said houseman. So this chauffeur, he claimed that he picked her up at O’Hare Airport that afternoon. Um, even though again, airline crew on the flight to Chicago didn’t recall her being on the plane. And like on the one hand, yeah, a flight attendant probably wouldn’t remember a single person on a plane. But a ba– 

Em: Sure. But were there logs of that kind of stuff? Like flight logs? 

Christine: Well, yes. So, there were. We hadn’t– They hadn’t gotten quite there yet. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: But, uh, she did have a ticket already, so there was that. But, um, the other thing I thought was like, “This is a multi-millionaire lady, like worth $30 million, $30 to $50 million. Like you’d remember her.” Like if you’re gonna remember anyone on the plane in 1970-whatever– 

Em: Yeah, she would l– stand out. 

Christine: I imagine she’s in first class. I imagine she’s very wealthy and looks it, right? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So when they say like, “Oh, the sta– the airline staff didn’t remember her being on the plane or said she wasn’t on the plane,” I’m like, “Well, I can believe that account a bit ’cause I like–“ 

Em: And in the s– Sorry. I, I was– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –gonna say in the ‘70s like were– I wonder if there were pictures of her because I’m sure I walk by– I was gonna say, I’m sure I walk by candy moguls all the time– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –but like I, I’m sure there’s like very rich successful people I don’t recognize. 

Christine: I hope not ’cause after what– after your candy corn slander, you’re probably on a list, you know? 

Em: [laughs] I just– I feel like– I, I’m sure I sit by quote “famous” people in their industry all the time and don’t notice unless there’s a picture of them. 

Christine: Right, right, right, right, right. 

Em: So, I don’t know how often she was being photographed. 

Christine: No, she wasn’t really– ’Cause she was so reserved and like she and her husband had been so private that like she wasn’t a known figure, you know. 

Em: Mm-hmm 

Christine: Um, but she, you know, was a woman, a multi-millionaire single woman traveling alone in the ‘70s. Like I imagine she at least stood out enough for people to be like, “Whoa, look at that lady,” you know. 

Em: Yeah, her, her outfits. Maybe she had like obv– an obviously richer coat or something. Yeah. 

Christine: Something. Who knows? Yeah. And like, of course, I assume she’s flying like first class if she’s like sometimes chartering planes and things, so. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um, either way, so the, the flight attendants say, “Nope, she was not on the plane.” Um, her houseman, which like, again, slightly debated. Some people say they don’t know why she said, “My houseman is waiting.” Um, some people claim it’s this Jack Matlick, but he claims he picked her up at O’Hare Airport that afternoon, um, so that she had been on the flight and landed in Chicago. Matlick said Helen spent the next four days at her 18-room Glenview mansion. And he insisted that she made no phone calls and saw no visitors and that on Monday morning, February 21st, he then drove her back to O’Hare for a flight to her Florida condo. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: But Helen never arrived in Florida and was never seen again. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So that’s why we say the gift shop is like the only– 

Em: The last. 

Christine: –like sort of third person sighting of like someone who isn’t involved at all. And the, the– 

Em: And was this, was this a gift shop in the airport or was this just a gift shop? 

Christine: No. So she had actually– It was inside the Zumbro Hotel. 

Em: Oh, right. 

Christine: I don’t know how you could forget such a thing. 

Em: Right, sorry. [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, she– No, no. She had actually stopped– uh, she had actually had an appointment at the Mayo Clinic in Rochester, Minnesota– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –for a routine medical visit, and she came out with a full clean– uh, clean bill of health and went to a gift shop in the hotel. I, I’m assuming maybe that’s where she was staying, but I don’t actually know that. Um, but the clerk remembers her being in a hurry and saying her houseman is waiting, which didn’t really make sense because she was supposed to be f– 

Em: ’Cause it would be her driver. 

Christine: Right, and she was supposed to be flying to meet her houseman, you know what I mean? On a flight, so to Chicago, and h-he was gonna pick her up. So, it didn’t make sense. Like– 

Em: It could have been like a slip of the tongue maybe of like just the wrong person? 

Christine: You, you would, you would say like, “My, my, my– I have to catch a flight or something.” But, yeah, it’s just odd. Or maybe she just– Maybe the cashier was chatty, right? And like she just wanted an excuse to get out. You know, who knows? 

Em: Sure, sure. 

Christine: Um, either way, he says, “Oh, yeah. I totally picked her up. She was here for four days, and then I drove her back to the airport, and she flew to Florida.” Immediate next, uh, bullet point is called “Suspicion on Jack Matlick.” 

Em: [chuckles] Okay, great. 

Christine: [chuckles] So here we go. Police quickly turned their attention to Matlick who claimed to be the last one to see her alive. Um, during the very weekend Helen was supposedly home for those four days that he claimed– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –here’s what he did in the house: he scrubbed down the maid’s quarters; he ordered a meat grinder attachment from Marshall Fields; he had one of her Cadillacs detailed inside and out, but not the other ones; he called a decorating and cleaning service on Sunday night requesting urgent work. 

Em: He killed her. 

Christine: He– Like– 

Em: Someone killed her, and he knows it. 

Christine: Like, plea– Like please. I mean, yeah. Visited her safe deposit box the same Monday morning he claimed to have dropped her off at O’Hare. And here’s some financial irregularities: one account says Matlick cashed six checks worth $13,000; another says el– they were, there were 11 totaling over $15,000, but they were dated February 17th and 18th, and they were allegedly signed by her, um, the days she was returning from Rochester. It just didn’t make any sense because seven of those checks went straight to Matlick. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And handwriting experts agreed the signatures were not Helen’s, but then when they did further testing, they said they didn’t agree that they were Matlick’s signature either. So– 

Em: So I– 

Christine: –confusing. 

Em: So maybe another person killed her, and then he’s cleaning it up? 

Christine: But then– 

Em: I mean, it sounds like the money’s going to him like– 

Christine: But that’s, but that’s just the checks. Yeah, I– My guess, my guess as to why they didn’t match Matlick’s is because he maybe had really been practicing. Like maybe he really was practicing to try and get her signature right and was able to change his own. I don’t know. 

Em: I see. 

Christine: Maybe that’s like– Maybe that’s not possible. But something– I’m like– I– That’s not enough for me. If he– If they say, “Oh, the signatures were not Helen’s”– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –like that’s enough of a red flag. Somebody fucking– 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: Yeah. And he, he has something to do with it. I mean, look at him, allegedly. Okay, so Matlick actually told investigators to give him a polygraph test, like a lie detector test. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And they were like– Which again, like why, why are you doing that? That’s weird. He didn’t fail them, but they were both inconclusive. 

Em: Okay. It’s weird at all that he like demanded it. 

Christine: Yes, I think so. Um– 

Em: It’s like, “I’ll prove–“ It’s like he’s almost feigning guilt by so desperately trying to be like– 

Christine: –being like I’m innocent. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. And so to reporters he angrily insisted, “I don’t know who killed Helen Brach, and I have no idea what happened to her.” Um, but Helen’s brother believed Matlick killed her without any outside help, and a federal agent later claimed the same belief, um, that– This agent also believed that Matlick killed her, and that was the end of the story. Um, but Matlick was never charged. He died in 2011 at age 79. So he took his version of events to the grave. And I will also add one more weird thing that happened was they spoke with his wife, and she claimed that on the night that, uh, that Helen was supposedly flying in from Chicago– I’m sorry, to Chicago from Minnesota that Matlick called his wife and told her, “I need to stay a few days here–“ Or, “I need to stay overnight or for a few days.” And she said that was completely out of the ordinary. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Like he never had to stay several days at the house. Like that was just really weird. And so that also just throws some suspicion. Like if he was doing all this like hiring urgent cleaning services, uh, having her car detailed, scrubbing and– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and his normal routine was not an overnight stay? It’s like what are you doing, you know? 

Em: Yeah. No, that’s– I mean, it’s every single bit of it is shady. 

Christine: It’s so shady, so shady. Um, so that’s why it’s confusing ’cause we get to Richard Bailey and his horse mafia, and then you’re like, “Wait a minute. This fucking guy also probably–“ Like I don’t know. It’s hard to say, but– 

Em: Oh, shit. Okay. 

Christine: –he’s another person of interest. So Richard Bailey, he’s a con man. Um, he’s a professional con artist, uh, specifically using racehorses as his kind of like tool– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –to cheat people out of their money. He targeted wealthy women with little knowledge of the horse racing business and would be this slick salesman and like convinced them to purchase these horses, these racehorses. So as– Just to give you an idea, in 1975, Helen bought three horses from him, from this guy Richard Bailey, for $98,000, and that is in 1975 money. She spent $98,000 on these three horses. And then her friends later said to her, “You better like val-value these horses. Get them appraised by a professional.” 

Em: Like get them appraised, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. Because, uh, he had come to her with like– 

Em: [drawing out the vowels to “baa” like a sheep or goat] Aprai-ai-sed. That’s a goat. I’m sorry. 

Christine: Whoa. What if they were like, “It was a goat the whole time.” [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] Um, I was trying to make a stupid “neigh” joke. I’m so– 

Christine: Yeah, I– Yeah, we know. We heard it. Um– 

Em: I– It really burst out of my mouth. I really should have just kept it fucking shut. Your turn. 

Christine: You really– It felt like a petting zoo had entered the chat, you know. Um– 

Em: I’m so sorry, Christine. I don’t know what happened there. I really wasn’t in charge of my own mouth in that moment. 

Christine: Please don’t apologize. I love to see you in action, you know. 

Em: The humiliation. 

Christine: No, no, I don’t. No, no, don’t be humiliated. Um– 

Em: I had no fucking reason to interrupt you like that. It just– 

Christine: Can I be honest? You’ve said way worse puns than that, so don’t worry. [laughs] 

Em: Oh. Thank you. That felt– 

Christine: Just kidding. 

Em: That felt good. 

Christine: Sometimes I don’t even laugh. At least this one got me, you know. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, [laughs], so she spent almost $100,000 on these things, and then they they were later valued by professionals– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –at under 20 grand. Um– 

Em: [gasps] Oh no, that’s a big scam. 

Christine: –because these horses, they were all– It was a huge scam. They were all, um, on their way out. Like they were like farm horses basically. 

Em: Ooh. 

Christine: They were like out of the racing business. So these appraisers looked at them and went, “These are not– You can’t race these, and if you do, you’re not gonna win anything. Like they’re– Yeah.” 

Em: Well, yeah, like they’ve retired. Like they– 

Christine: They’re retired, yeah. 

Em: Because they’re not qualified anymore. Oh no. 

Christine: Correct. And he– 

Em: I mean, I– Thank god for her like $50 to $80 million is like– $20,000 is a drop in the bucket or $100,000 is a dro– 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: But still that’s so– 

Christine: But so– And part of it was that he had actually pitched like a whole another business plan and she was going to go forward with it, but then she talked to her girlfriends, and they were like, “You need to like get this checked out.” So that’s when she found out she’d already been scammed like this major amount. Like there was no denying it. Um, and he actually– So the investing– investment she was about to put down was $150,000 extra on top of what she had already put down. And so– And this had been years. Like she was very close with this person. So there’s also like this personal element involved where like he apparently– what he did, which I heard this on an episode of True Crime All The Time. They were talking about an interview he did where he would explain that to con these women, he was like, “I wasn’t really attracted to them, but I wanted their money. So I would find one thing I found attractive about them and focus on that–“ 

Em: Oof. 

Christine: “–while I conned them. And then once I got the hooks in them, I was easily able to feel disgusted about them and discard them.” And it’s like– 

Em: Holy shit. [chuckles] 

Christine: Hey, what the fuck? 

Em: Whoa. 

Christine: And so this motherfucker had been spending years as like a close friend and potentially more to Helen. I don’t know that. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But he claimed that he would try to woo them by being, you know, romantic and making them feel like they were so beautiful and all this. And they like stayed in places toge– They went to New York together, you know. Like they were very close. And so when she found out that he had like scammed her and a lot of other women, um, you know, she was not happy. Uh, she apparently confronted him, uh, and claimed that, you know, she was gonna get the, the board of whatever state they were in involved and all this. Um, and so, you know, you don’t, as a con man, like to hear that any sort of federal regulators are gonna be coming in. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So, she, she threatened, uh, him for that reason, and that’s why he’s also listed as like a potential, you know, suspect. 

Em: [sighs] That’s a good reason. That’s a very good reason. 

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. Especially because when you look at it, um, they later– Investigators later uncovered a much broader racket that he was pulling. Um, he had this violent horse dealer named Silas Jayne, and they were accus– 

Em: That just sounds like a villain. That– Silas Jayne? 

Christine: Silas Jayne. 

Em: Are you kidding me? 

Christine: I mean, really. It’s like– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: It feels like our– It feels like the Emothy and um– 

Em: [laughs] The Graveyard Kid. 

Christine: –the Graveyard Kid’s like arch nemesis, you know. Silas Jayne. 

Em: Oh my god. Emothy, the Graveyard Kid, and Silas Jayne. I feel like he’s got like 14 different guns hidden in his boot. 

Christine: Like that’s wild. 

Em: Like he’s– 

Christine: Yeah, f– Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Em: [laughs] He’s got a cape. He’s got a cape for sure. 

Christine: And you know he’s like has horses on his side, which is like, “Uh-oh,” you know. 

Em: Oh, we’re in trouble. Yeah. 

Christine: So they would like inflate these horses. Uh– They would not inflate the horses. I’m sorry. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: They inflated– 

Em: [laughs] Like fucking balloons? 

Christine: [laughs] What is h– “This is a real horse valued at $100,000.” 

Em: Like they would inflate the price. 

Christine: Yes, correct. 

Em: Okay, I was– 

Christine: They would inflate the price. Not the horse balloon. 

Em: Like he’s the big like the one Macy’s Day balloon that went missing, like flew away. 

Christine: Oh my god. The parade float. Yeah. Uh– [chuckles] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: That would be a wild racket– 

Em: That got me. 

Christine: –if they were like, “This is a real horse, not a parade float.” Um– 

Em: You got me good. Okay. Sorry. I’m sorry, sorry. 

Christine: So, no. No. I’m sorry. We’re all sorry. So, where– What is it? [in a sing-song voice] We’re sorry. Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [normal voice] So they were accused of selling these horses at inflated prices and even staging insurance fraud schemes. Um, they would do this by killing the show horses– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –uh, for like insurance purposes and then like pretend like they died in an accident and then get money off of it. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: This is so wild. 

Christine: Like they would murder the horses and then like get the money from the insurance. It’s sick. So, journalist James Ylisela wrote a book called Who Killed the Candy Lady?, which I did add to my Goodreads, but I have not had time to read it because I picked this topic yesterday. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But it looks really interesting. Um, and in this book, he argues that Helen had uncovered this horse insurance fraud and was preparing to go to authorities. Um, and he believes that that is why she was silenced, so to speak. Um– 

Em: Sure, I, I could believe that. 

Christine: One– I mean, it makes a lot of sense. You’re getting into like a multi-million dollar con artist– 

Em: And– 

Christine: You’re getting in the way of this guy, right? And it’s like– 

Em: And I have a feeling– ’Cause she wasn’t able to sense this immediately without her like girls backing her up– 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: –I guarantee you one of them was like, “I bet he’s a fucking scammer. You should look into that.” Like that– Not– 

Christine: So that is what happened, 100%. 

Em: But with the horses– 

Christine: She literally went to her friends and asked– 

Em: That was just the h-horses though, right? 

Christine: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: I feel like they– I feel like she was going to find out. This is like totally in my head, but I feel like she went to brunch with them, and she was like, “Girl, you were right. All the horses were like so– I got so ripped off.” And I feel like they said, “There’s something even deeper. Like I bet you’re–“ 

Christine: Oh. A bigger, a bigger story. 

Em: “I bet you weren’t the first person. I bet this is a much bigger con.” 

Christine: So she– 

Em: And I feel like that’s what she got into. 

Christine: –she knew that. Because she knew he sold horses to all the other women in this like country club, so she knew almost immediately like, “Oh, so he’s doing this to everyone.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: “And he’s, he’s like putting on a show for all these people.” I don’t necessarily think she knew how big it was, like how– and that he had other associates and that he was like killing horses. I mean, I don’t think she necessarily knew that, but she unfortunately challenged that, right? Like said, “I’m gonna expose you,” and yeah, that could have been retaliation. Yeah. 

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Christine: So, I don’t know. I mean, there’s no way to know, but that’s what his theory is. Um, one witness, uh, Joseph Plemmons, later claimed Helen had been kidnapped, beaten, and shot, and then destroyed in an Indiana steel furnace on Silas Jayne’s orders. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And, you know, a lot of people believe that because– That’s the running theory because they’ve never found any trace of her body. And this guy really was like a mafia-style violent man. 

Em: Oh my god. Destroyed in a furnace is such a fucking way to put it. That’s– 

Christine: Like a steel furnace is like melt– like that melted steel. 

Em: Oh my god, yeah. 

Christine: I mean, it’s really dark. Yeah. 

Em: Oh my god. And they said– They’ve never found her body. No trace. She’s– But then, I mean, do they have any idea of how– I think you just said it– how she was killed? Like was it a stabbing? Was it a shooting? 

Christine: They said she was kidnapped, beaten, and shot. Um. 

Em: And shot. Okay. ’Cause– 

Christine: And this guy Plemmons– And like I– My thought is why would– I mean, people lie for crazy reasons, but why would you put yourself in this? He also alleged that Matlick was involved as part of the crew, so that Matlick um– wh-who was, by the way, the, the house guy. 

Em: Houseman. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. Which is like, what in the world is going on here? 

Em: I don’t know. I feel like maybe they– I still think the houseman is kind of r– 

Christine: I know. Me too. 

Em: This feels a little too– What’s that like zebra stripes fucking sentence? 

Christine: What? 

Em: [laughs] Okay. 

Christine: [laughs] The gum? What are you talking about? 

Em: [laughs] No, there’s a sentence, and it’s like something about zebras and stripes. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: But basically it means that like it’s usually the simplest answer. Like– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: It, it– That’s what the, the phrase is, but like I feel like this is like so over the top when like the, the houseman was acting really fucking suspicious and signing checks into his name. Like– 

Christine: And signing checks with fraudulent signatures. Yeah. 

Em: I feel like this random horseman would have just fled. He would have just heard, “Oh, you’re gonna expose me? I’m out of here.” 

Christine: Yeah. So, it’s– Well, he lived in town. Like he knew her whole community ’cause he’s working– Sh– He’s working at– She meets him like through her social circle. So it’s also like maybe he stands more to lose than– I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Em: Maybe there was some combination where like the houseman did it, and then horse guy came in and was like, “Oh, where is she?” and like caught the butler, and then he was like, “Don’t worry, I’ve got a guy, and I wanted her out of the way anyway,” you know? 

Christine: This is like the opposite of the zebra, the zebra stripe theory. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: He just happens to walk in as the dead body is laying on the floor, and he’s like, “I want my horse money.” And they’re like, “Good. I wanted her dead, too.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. I– Actually, I really [unintelligible] there. Um, no, it– The, the houseman is way too suspicious for nothing going on. 

Christine: Something is so weird about that, you know. 

Em: Like for him to be scrubbing and cleaning and detailing and everything and also putting money in his name. Like something happened there. And– But I do believe that she, she told him like, “I’m gonna expose him,” and like he would have reacted poorly. But I– It feels too– ’Cause then if your point is that he was already of that community and everything, wouldn’t he want it to be a clean kill? Like– So that nobody caught on or he– even heard that she went missing? 

Christine: Well, but if it was, then it would behoove them to say that the door– that the houseman did it, you know? 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Like it could have been so clean that like nobody knew– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and then they all looked at the houseman, the butler. The butler did it. I don’t know. I mean– 

Em: Maybe. Could they, could they have killed her in her house so it looked like the houseman? And then he spent the whole weekend like panic cleaning so nobody would think it was him? I don’t know. 

Christine: That’s, that’s interesting because also it’s like– I don’t necessarily know why the houseman would kill her. I mean, for the money obviously, like he’s trying to sign checks over, but like it’s not working. He’s not doing a good job of that if he’s like getting caught immediately. 

Em: Maybe since it was a third handwriting– This is fucking crazy, I know. Everyone leave me alone. But maybe horse guy– 

Christine: The zebra has lost its stripes, I repeat. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] The z– The zebra is fully naked. Um– 

Christine: Murphy’s Law does not apply. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Maybe horse guy killed her– 

Christine: Wait, is it Murphy’s Law? No– 

Em: Murphy’s Law is everything bad happens or– 

Christine: Everything that can go wrong will go wrong. What’s the one? Um, uh, what is the thing? Oh my god. Occam’s razor is where it’s like it’s usually the simplest explanation. 

Em: Is that what I was thinking of? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Not zebra stripe quote? 

Christine: Well, I don’t know what the fuck you were thinking of. I know Occam’s razor is like the term for like the simplest is most likely what it is. 

Em: There was a whole Law and Or– Ze– 

Christine: I’m sure there is. 

Em: [laughs] Zebra– 

Christine: I’m sure– I– I’m not just saying that. 

Em: –quote. Hang on. I’m, I’m so upset about this now. If you’re– “If you hear hoof beats, don’t think zebras.” 

Christine: Oh, that’s cool. I like that. 

Em: That was– There was a whole episode called “Zebras” because Stabler says it in the beginning, and then the irony is the way they solve the crime is that he’s supposed to do that. 

Christine: Now, see that’s– 

Em: Um, okay. So anyway, uh, what if horse guy killed her in the home and like it was served as a message to others in some way? Or like tried to like frame the, the houseman. Horse guy goes away. But– Or maybe they made a deal where like he’s like, “I’m gonna–“ 

Christine: But like they never found any evidence, right? Like I mean, he cleaned the house, but like– 

Em: But like just a bunch of blood everywhere. What if there’s just blood everywhere? 

Christine: Right, but like no– 

Em: And then what if the other guy is the third handwriting on those checks to be like, “Clean this up”? 

Christine: But like the, the h– But see, this is where I– I think the, I think the guy wrote the handwriting because it was so similar that they had to like test it. But it– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Well, maybe not. Maybe you’re right. Maybe they just copied it. Hm, this is killing me. But I don’t know. Like don’t you think the simplest one is that like just one person was involved? Or like just– 

Em: Yeah, the simplest one is the, the houseman did this. 

Christine: I think the simplest one is that the person she had like a public beef with did it. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: But I don’t know if I believe– But I don’t know if that’s true because like he was shady, but maybe they were saying like, “Look at the houseman. Look how shady he is.” Like maybe they were trying to frame him? I don’t know. Or maybe he did it for the money. 

Em: I feel– I, I– There’s no reason for him to be cleaning like that unless there was blood everywhere. 

Christine: Well, he claimed that it was his routine, and then nobody could be like, “You’re lying,” like because they don’t know. Like he just worked there with her. 

Em: I guess. 

Christine: So he was never convicted, Bailey, uh, of Helen’s murder. This is– We’re back to horse mafia, by the way. Um, but in 1995, he did plead guilty to racketeering for defrauding Helen and other wealthy women. Um, and at sentencing, prosecutors introduced evidence linking him to a murder conspiracy, and he was given a 30-year sentence. Um, they never secured a murder conviction, uh, for Helen’s murder. Uh, Bailey protested his innocence to the end though and appealed multiple times, um, but in 2005, the Seventh Circuit rejected new hearings, stating that the evidence did not prove he was innocent of conspiring to kill Helen Brach. So he was released in 2019 after serving his full term. And then in 2022, which is another book I want to read, he wrote a book called Golden Tongue: The Innocent Man That Killed Her?, um, insisting that he was framed. 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: And he die– he died in 2022 at the age of 93. And I’m like, I’m curious to read this book, but also like you were like defrauding women and were proven to be linked with another murder. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like I don’t know how much I believe you either, you know. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: Like why should I trust you? But whatever. We– It’s just tragic ’cause we still don’t know. And there are, of course, competing theories that we’ve mentioned, uh, some of. So one is that Matlick killed her alone for financial gain. One is that the horse mafia, led by Silas Jayne’s orders, uh, ordered her death to protect their schemes. And then the other theory being that, uh, you know, the horse mafia with Silas Jayne was involved, and they ordered her death and then disposed of her body in this like blast furnace basically. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um, there are some discrepancies, like, uh, the independent witness sighting verse Matlick’s claim of meeting her at O’Hare that like point to him being shady. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: But also, you know– And I’m pretty sure– I will, I will double check this because for some reason it’s not in my notes, but I’m pretty confident that they checked and nobody boarded the plane under her name that day. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I’m pretty, I’m pretty confident. But back then also like things weren’t like digitized and as thorough– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –as they are today with airline stuff, so– 

Em: Also back then you could just go– You could just give someone your ticket with your own name on it. They didn’t ask– 

Christine: Oh, right. True. So it’s like– 

Em: So they, they could have just– Anyone could have walked on with her ticket. 

Christine: Right, right. So, so if the record said like nobody used the ticket, that’s a huge red flag too if, if Matlick is saying– Well, it’s, it’s a red flag ’cause he’s like, “Oh, she came home, and I saw her for four days.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But then also it’s like, why would he say that if she was killed in Chicago by the horse mafia? I don’t know. It’s so weird, Em. 

Em: I’m telling you, I think it was the house guy– 

Christine: I th– 

Em: –because he is trying to cover tracks, and nobody else is. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. No, you’re right. 

Em: Horse tracks. 

Christine: I think you’re right. I think you’re right. 

Em: Sorry. 

Christine: Um, unfortunately, her– Helen– uh, her remains were never found. A marble monument stands in Unionport, Ohio. And now we can look into what the symbolism is and what shape it is and learn more about it. 

Em: [chuckles] Finally! It’s a big candy corn. 

Christine: Um– I lo– Oh my god, imagine. That would be so cool. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Uh, her dogs, Candy and Sugar, are both buried there, too. 

Em: Ohh, that’s precious and sad. 

Christine: Um, and it’s sad because like just what we were talking about earlier, the tomb bears Helen’s name but is empty, right? 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Because they never found– And so like I can of course understand when you need closure for, you know, something like this, like so horrific. Um, or if you just want a place to, to visit a, a deceased loved one. But yeah, um, Unionport. I don’t know where that is. I think that’s not far from me anyway. Maybe we can give her like a little, a little uh– We bring her some candy next time we’re nearby. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, but yeah, so that’s the story of the disappearance of Helen Brach. Um, I know it was kind of like a quick story, but there really wasn’t– There’s not much about it online honestly. I mean, there are those two books, but again, I didn’t have time to read that before today, so I’m sure there’s some things I’m missing and some nuance I missed, but that’s– Just kidding. It’s literally four hours from me. Okay. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Never mind. Uh, okay. But yeah, that’s the story. And you said a candy crime, and I said, “Here you go.” 

Em: I love that. Thank you. That was a good one. 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: You know, do you have any final requests? Because next week I think is our actual Halloween episode. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: I love this Halloween, this spooky month where we just do the requests. 

Christine: I do too. 

Em: So have you got anything? 

Christine: And it’s fun to just– ’Cause then you can be like– you can like be kind of vague and just say like “candy,” and it’s like, “Oh, I’ll find something.” Like it makes like a scavenger hunt. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, and I said “graveyard games,” and you brought fucking graveyard games. Let’s see. 

Em: I appreciate. I– Graveyard activities. 

Christine: Activities. 

Em: I don’t know. I tried. 

Christine: That, that’s even better. Um– 

Em: Trying to think if I have anything for you. 

[silence] 

Em: Hm. [laughs] Right. 

Christine: We used up all our good ideas in the, in the intermission. 

Em: Well– Um, I– Let’s see. Halloween. 

Christine: Do you have anything? 

Em: Halloween. Halloween. Halloween. Halloween. Candy. I’m just gonna say Halloween things. And if anyone’s to– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Okay. Uh, skeletons, trick-or-treating, costumes. Ooh, costume. Like a costume party. 

Christine: Costumes. Costume’s good. 

Em: Costume. Something where people are in costume, so that’s broad. That could be like actors. That could be– 

Christine: Costumes is good. 

Em: –murder mystery. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um– poi– 

Christine: Costume is good. 

Em: –poisoned apples that you bob for? Okay. Go costume. 

Christine: Costume? Okay. That’s mine? 

Em: Vague, vague phrase. It could be anything. 

Christine: Or is that both of ours? 

Em: That’s, that’s me to you. 

Christine: Oh, that’s mine. Okay. Excellent. Yes. Costume is good. Costume is very good. 

Em: What’s yours to me? What’s yours to me? 

Christine: Okay, okay. Let me think. Um, sorry. We also have a meeting in five minutes, you guys. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So we’re like clearly– We’re both clearly watching the clock like, “Okay, we got five minutes to come up with one word. Can Christine do it?” Probably not. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um. 

[silence] 

Christine: Okay. I, I wanna say– Like my gut reaction is like, I don’t know why, but like a haunt– Hm, that doesn’t really make sense. I was gonna say like haunted homes, like, like a story about someone living alongside their ghost. Does that make sense? Do you know what I mean? Like– 

Em: I can try to find that. 

Christine: Like maybe, maybe a story where somebody like was actively living alongside– I don’t know. I don’t know if that’s any– 

Em: Okay. No, I’ll, I’ll see what I can do. 

Christine: Ghost roommates. I don’t know. 

Em: I’ll see what I can do. Sure. Perfect. 

Christine: Um, yeah. 

Em: Okay. Great. See– 

Christine: Okay. Haunted, haunted home. That’s my target. 

Em: Are you fucking kidding me? A haunt– A haunted home? That’s what I cover all the time. 

Christine: No, but like– But not a haunted house. Not a haunted house. 

Em: Okay, fine. Fine, a haunted home. 

Christine: Haunted home. 

Em: Yeah. A s– a home. 

Christine: And that has– 

Em: Home haunted home. Yes. 

Christine: Home haunted home. That’s cute. Yeah. 

Em: Okay. Got it. 

Christine: All right. Well, we’re gonna go pee real quick before our meeting. 

Em: That’s right. And we will see you next week for, I think, our Halloween episode or at least the ep– one before that. 

Christine: It is our Halloween one next week ’cause the one after is November 2nd. 

Em: Ooh, okay. Good to know. Is it? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: That can’t be right. Is it? This is the 19th. 

Christine: It is. 

Em: This one come out the 19th? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And then the one after that would be plus 7 is 26? 

Christine: Right, so that, that next– 

Em: So then that one’s our Halloween– 

Christine: But this one comes out the 19th, right? 

Em: Oh, I see what’s happening now. Okay. 

Christine: So the next one, sorry. 

Em: You’re right. 

Christine: The next one we record will be the Halloween one. Yeah. 

Em: Ahh! Okay. 

Christine: Ahh! 

Em: Well, see you for Halloween. And– 

Christine: See you soon. That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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