E458 Rat Slaps and Sklorching Demons

TOPICS: THE NAMELESS THING OF BERKELEY SQUARE, ROBERT “BOBBY” DUNBAR & BRUCE ANDERSON

---

It’s Episode 458 and are we actually talking to you from the future?! This week Em takes us to London for The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square, a “vile and phantasmagorical killer from beyond the grave”. Then Christine covers the disappearance of Robert “Bobby” Dunbar, an unfortunate and mysterious case of two missing boys. And if you’re ever sad just remember, maybe you are someone’s neighborhood lore… and that’s why we drink!

Photo Links:
The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square Cryptid Card
Robert Bobby Dunbar before and after

---

Transcript

[intro music]

Christine: Alright, let’s try this. Ready, set, go. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] It worked. 

Em: It sure– It shut me up. That’s sure– It– Yeah. 

Christine: The podcast has begun. 

Em: Finally. I’ve been wondering for years how it would finally begin. 

Christine: We didn’t know. And finally, it’s time. The r– dress rehearsal is over. We’re here for our first ever opening night: And That’s Why We Drink. Uh, welcome to the show. 

Em: We’re serious. 

Christine: We are your h-hosts. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: I’m Christine. 

Em: I’m Em. And so far that’s all we got. Um– 

Christine: It’s pretty good so far, I think. 

Em: I think we should keep that in, for sure. 

Christine: Nailed it. [laughs] 

Em: Um, oh my gosh. Well, uh, to us, it is a Monday. I know everyone else is listening on a Sunday, but technically we’re in the past. Although, if it’s a Monday and this comes out on a Sunday, it sounds like we’re in the future. Um– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: Not to blow everyone’s minds here. But Christine, how are you doing on this Monday? 

Christine: It’s snowing. 

Em: No, it’s fucking not. 

Christine: Snowing so much, and I’m like, “What’s happening?” I woke up this morning– 

Em: Are you telling the truth? 

Christine: I’m telling the truth. It’s sn– been snowing all day. I’ve been waiting to tell you about it. 

Em: Please– 

Christine: [laughs] Em’s the only one who cares. 

Em: –take a picture immediately and send it to– I don’t belie– 

Christine: Oh, I can’t believe I haven’t taken a single– Leona woke up and said, “It’s gonna snow today.” And Blaise said, “Oh, we don’t know,” and then literally, they left– they– We open the door for her to go to school, like out the door, and she goes, “I see a snowflake.” And literally, within minutes like snow snow. 

Em: She is the prophecy. I, I don’t believe it. 

Christine: She– I call her a little meteorologist. Yeah– 

Em: I don’t believe it. Oh my god. 

Christine: It’s fucking snowing, man. 

Em: There’s no fucking way. I– 

Christine: Isn’t that weird? I’m glad you agree because I feel like I’m the only one who’s shocked, and everyone else is like, “Sure, it’s snowing. It’s November,” and I’m like, “It’s– Something’s wrong.” 

Em: First of all, back the fuck up, haters. 

Christine: We can all fucking relax. Okay. 

Em: Also– No, I think, I think because to us like a week ago was Halloween, so I’m like, “Why the hell is it snowing now?” 

Christine: It literally– Yes. Yeah. That’s a good point. 

Em: Like it’s supposed to just be cool and crisp. And also um, over here– 

Christine: And on Halloween here, it was like 70°, you know? It’s not like it’s been cold. 

Em: That’s so weird. 

Christine: Isn’t it? 

Em: Also this sounds– Some therapist needs to analyze this, but honestly, snow feels too happy and pure for like [laughs] how I just feel on a constant basis. 

Christine: For the doom and gloom, I know. 

Em: Yeah. I’m just like, “Why? What are–“ 

Christine: It put some pep in my step because it’s just been kind of gloomy, and I’m like, “That’s fine.” But when the snow comes, I’m like, “Ooh!” [giggles]1 It’s a little exciting. 

Em: [laughs] It’s almost like, “Oh, we’re locked inside.” But alSo– 

Christine: It’s like– Yeah, yeah. 

Em: –as a parent, is that as fun though? 

Christine: Well, it is when you’re me and you say, “I don’t go outdoor– Mommy doesn’t go outside.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I can’t wait for Leona to say that a little too loud one day. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then Blaise– Literally, he comes back from dropping her off and goes, “[sighs] She said–“ Like it started snowing literally as they left for school, and she apparently the whole way there talked about how they’re gonna build a snowman, and he was like, “I don’t know if there’s gonna be enough snow.” Like da-da-da. But she’s like, “We’re building a snowman.” So I’m like, “Good luck with that.” 

Em: You are– The snowman’s gonna be this big. [Em holds their index finger and thumb up, just a few inches apart.] Just so you know. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah. You know what? And that’s fine, you know? Uh, size isn’t everything, so. 

Em: You got three ice cubes in that freezer, I bet. You can make it work. 

Christine: That’s right. 

Em: You just stick them on top of each other. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, well, I’m jealous. I immediately am just filled with rage. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] Oh, good. Oh, good. That’s what I was trying to do with my quaint storytelling– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –was fill you with unending rage, so you’re welcome. Um– 

Em: Thank you. 

Christine: –but other than that, I’m flying to Hawaii tomorrow, so, you know, it’s like no big deal. 

Em: Fucking– Okay, weather whiplash. It’s like, “Oh, it’s snowing. Let’s go to the beach.” [chuckles] 

Christine: I keep rereading– So my friend, Alyssa, is getting married to a woman whose family is from Hawaii, and so the wedding is in Hawaii. And, um, we grew up in Cincinnati, so this is like an– When we were planning our– talking about our future weddings when we were kids, Hawaii was usually not in the picture, but– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –you know, I’m not complaining. 

Em: Like city hall. 

Christine: Right, right, right. It was like– I mean, we live in Cincinnati. Nothing– We can’t think past city limits. Um– 

Em: You– Like a lot of– Just maybe like a big potter’s field or something. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah. Oh, you know what? That– There is a certain romance to that. Um, but yeah, so I’m going to Hawaii tomorrow. But am I? Because of all these fucking flight cancellations? 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: I’m just sitting in my life right now going, “Let go, let go. Surren–“ 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “I don’t know. I can’t control it. Just let it be.” So I’m going to, um, wake up– 

Em: That’s exa– 

Christine: My flight’s at 6:00 in the morning and wake up at 3 or not sleep and be, at 3:00, looking at my phone and, uh, seeing where I’m headed. So– [laughs] 

Em: Okay. Lots of questions. Uh, so you’re– How long of a flight is it from Cincinnati? 

Christine: It’s like 17 hours, Em. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I’m so glad you asked. I kind of want to die. 

Em: That’s like an international flight. 

Christine: It’s really– I mean, I fly to LAX. I have a fucking five hour layover, speaking of. I can like maybe go like see Hank real quick and come back. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And then– 

Em: You’re welcome to if you want. 

Christine: I mean, imagine I just show up. Um, and then I have like another six hour flight from LA to Hawaii. I mean, it’s crazy. That shit is far away. 

Em: I mean, there’s a reason a lot of people on the East Coast don’t go to Hawaii. 

Christine: Yeah. It’s fucking far. 

Em: I mean, our, our big thing is, is like the Bahamas, like– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Or like Florida, you know. [laughs] 

Christine: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Em: But, um, no, I– 

Christine: We like Cancun, like, you know, like Mexico. 

Em: I don’t know why um, in– It never occurred to me, but Hawaii is a, is a much more popular tourist destination for people on the West Coast, which like makes sense. 

Christine: Yeah, direct flights, etc. 

Em: Um, but I’ve told, I’ve told a few people like, “Oh, my 50 states, and I, I have to get to Hawaii eventually,” and every person I’ve talked to that’s in– that was like a local and grew up in LA, they’re all like, “Oh, yeah, I’ve been a bunch of times.” And I’m like, “Was that just the place? Was that your like Outer Banks or something?” [laughs] 

Christine: I feel like in my school in Ohio, everyone went to Hawaii. I think it was just trendy for a while. Like– 

Em: Really? Hm. 

Christine: I– Maybe flights were cheap or something? I don’t know. ’Cause my mom took us there, and we definitely never did– I mean, I’ve never been to Mexico as I say, “Oh, we love Cancun.” I’ve never even been there. So I’m like– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –I don’t kn– That was just like our one like kind of luxury beach vacation was Hawaii. But that– I remember it taking like a full fucking day to get there. 

Em: I mean, that’s like– And the– 

Christine: And then the time difference is like nine hours? Okay, it’s not nine hours. It’s– 

Em: It’s gonna feel like it. 

Christine: It’s a lot of hours. Okay? [laughs] 

Em: And are you going– Is Leona coming? 

Christine: No. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Leona was kindly not invited, which I was like, good choice– 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: –um for this like little small– It’s a really small wedding. Um, and, uh– 

Em: Well– 

Christine: –there’s a rum safari. 

Em: Oh, well, there you go. I see why you’re going 17 hours. 

Christine: Well, there you go. I know. Hey. Listen, it’s worth it. It’s worth it. So it’ll be fun. It’ll be wonderful to see one of my oldest friends marry the love of her life. A gay wedding. I’ve been to two– This is my second gay wedding of the month or of the–? Yeah, of the month. And, um, you know, I’m loving this lifestyle for myself– 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: –as being a guest at gay weddings. It’s just so much fun. 

Em: Perfect. Well, uh, I– And I am worried what’s gonna happen with all– what’s going on with the flights these days. Um, but also the weather– 

Christine: Maybe I’ll be– 

Em: –now that it’s fucking snowing. 

Christine: I know. And then hop– Chicago apparently is like everything’s grinding to a halt ’cause of the snow. So you know, maybe it’ll be me and my cat and my, uh, heating pad. Maybe it’ll be me on a big old jet to the beach. We’ll see. 

Em: Okay. Well, are you in the wedding? 

Christine: Um, so it’s not really– It’s such a small wedding. They only invited like a couple people. So it’s sort of like a very intimate family thing. 

Em: Gotcha. 

Christine: So I feel like I’m not in the wedding, but she did ask me to help get her ready and like for the first looks. And I was like, “That feels important, so I’m gonna just roll with it.” [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. Yeah, totally. Well, that sounds fun. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, it’ll be good. It’ll be good, but it feels like so surreal, you know? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: ’Cause again, it’s snowing right now. 

Em: And I don’t envy you with the– 

Christine: Yeah. Oh, yeah, like– 

Em: – with the flight. That sounds terrible. 

Christine: It’s gonna be a long day. Um, but that’s okay. 

Em: You know, living where I live, to get home, it’s usually door-to-door like an eight or nine ex– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –hour excursion. And for some reason, I have gotten so used to an eight hour travel. But make it fucking ten? I’ll lose my mind. 

Christine: Double that– Oh, even add an hour or two. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Just all of a sudden I’m like, “Now, that’s undoable.” Like [laughs] I don’t know what’s wrong with me. 

Christine: No, I get it, especially when you’re like in the context of travel, right? I mean– And now all these flights getting– I mean, this is probably old news now, but currently the government is semi still shut down– very much still shut down, I guess. And, uh, the flights are getting cancelled and delayed, and people are losing it, and I don’t blame ‘em. Like talk about high stress situations, expensive. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: There are just like strangers everywhere. You’re in like the mo– like time crunch. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Y– I mean, it’s just miserable. Miserable. 

Em: Oy. Well, again, don’t envy you, but I do envy whatever Leona is gonna get up to because I know that shit’s gonna be fun. 

Christine: She’s gonna have a really good time. I don’t know what’s up with, uh– but you know, there’s so many potter’s fields out here– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –she could really get up to anything. [laughs] 

Em: Give her a shovel and a couple days, and she’ll– 

Christine: Yeah, I’ll give her your podcast episode about graveyard games– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and she’ll be set for like the whole week. 

Em: Oh, well, I’m very excited about that. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. 

Em: Well, um, is there a reason why you drink outside of that? Or is that the reason why you drink? Or–? 

Christine: I think that’s all of it. It’s a– It’s just a big fell swoop of like, “Ahh!” 

Em: Are you drinking anything fun today? 

Christine: You know, I’m really not. I only brought my Stanley. I was gonna get a D. Pep, and then I forgot. And I think it’s too late for caffeine anyway. Um, so– ’Cause I have terrible insomnia. So I got my scrappy water. [Christine holds her salmon-colored Stanley cup up to the camera.] What about you? 

Em: Wait, show me that. [Christine holds her cup up to the camera again. There is an illustrated sticker on it of a squirrel holding an acorn with “scrappy” underneath it.] Okay, so that’s so funny. I– That’s so funny. Um, I mean, the sticker is also funny. [chuckles] You’re so funny, Christine. Um, but– 

Christine: [makes confused noise] 

Em: Hang on. Just let me– Hang on. Hang on, let me finish the sentence. Let, let me figure out how to do it. Um, okay. Ready for the whole thought? I’ve built it in my head now. 

Christine: Go. 

Em: I recently finally bought a sticker book. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And from all of our travels, I had– when I tell you whatever amount of stickers you think I had, quadruple it. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. 

Em: I don’t care if you think the number was 1,000 stickers, quadruple it. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. Okay. 

Em: I spent the day yesterday– I had a lot of things I needed to do, and instead, I sat with my sticker book, and I finally organized all of the stickers that I have ever collected ever. Ever ever. All of them. 

Christine: Whoa! 

Em: And one of them was that exact fucking sticker, but a raccoon– 

Christine: Yes! [gasps] 

Em: –instead of a squirrel. 

Christine: I don’t even remember where I got this, but I remember I got two: one to give you ’cause we had always talked about how we’re scrappy. I got one to give you, and one to give me. And then I just the other day looked at my water bottles and went, “Wait, I have one on each water bottle,” so I clearly never gave them to you. 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I just accidentally– 

Em: I was gonna say, maybe the raccoon one was from you, but I guess not. 

Christine: I think I used both of them, um, instead of giving one to you, but i-initially it was supposed to go to you. Um. 

Em: Well, anyway one of the reasons I drink– 

Christine: I love this sticker. 

Em: –is because I finally– I don’t think unless you are a, a mental tumbleweed of chaos like the two of us are– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Some people might not understand (I know you do) how– overwhelming isn’t the word– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Maybe you know the word, but like– but the am– Let’s– Every time we’ve gone on a trip, which– Add up every time we’ve been on tour, every time I’ve done my own trips; I’m trying to do my 50 states; every time I go see my grandma; every time I go home; I’m always buying tchotchke, and that includes stickers and pins. And every single one of them from different trips have been sitting in different ziplocks or different paper bags– 

Christine: Oh, in– and by the way– 

Em: –or at the bottom of a backpack. 

Christine: Additional note, we often also give one another stickers, so that also adds– 

Em: Yeah. Adds to it. 

Christine: Be like, as an excuse, we’re like, “Oh, Em would like this.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “Eva would like this.” And then we attain more stickers that way. 

Em: Yes. And, and they’re– but they’re s– Like the way that they’re scattered through the, through the house. 

Christine: Bro, it’s like in– it’s like, um, intolerable really. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: It’s intolerable. 

Em: I mean, I’ve been waiting– I’ve been collecting stickers since we fir– The very first time we went on tour was 2018– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –and I just fucking started looking at all of them. 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: Like I had to dig through every little nook and cranny of my house. 

Christine: They go everywhere. 

Em: We have a storage unit. We have– I mean, every s– I, I mean, the number of stickers and pins was like, first of all, breathtaking in a different way where I need to like a– readjust my, my spending. 

Christine: Right, like mentally. You need to do some thinking. Yeah. 

Em: But, but to have them all consolidated in one clean organized box? Like there’s no words. There’s no words for like that clarity. 

Christine: So that sounds– That actually feels so uplifting to me that I’m gonna hold on to this feeling for the rest of the day, I think. I’m gonna try to. Um– 

Em: If you need something to do on your plane, I’m telling you, buy a sticker book today– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –and, and spend your– It– There was nothing more fucking serene. 

Christine: Yeah. Okay, yeah ’cause– 

Em: It was incredible. 

Christine: Eva got me a sticker book, Um, but it wasn’t enough room. Like I put a bunch of stickers in it, but it’s still not enough room, so I’m gonna have to get another. 

Em: [whispering] I have a second one coming today. 

Christine: Oh, see. Okay. So here’s my question– 

Em: Be– Because it did not fit all of them. 

Christine: –for your 4,000 stickers that I have– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –um that you have, um, when you were going through them, were there any that you were like, “Eh, I’m not feeling these,” or did you like keep every single one? 

Em: No, I, I decluttered my stickers as well. 

Christine: Okay. ’Cause I’ve been doing that too, ’cause some of them I’m like, “This does not spark joy.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “I don’t even know where this is from.” Okay, okay. 

Em: Understood. 

Christine: ’Cause um, that makes sense. And then also when you were organizing them, did you like organize them in a sp– particular way? Or was it like by just how they look, the shape? Was it like the city? Was it like the year that you attained it? Like [chuckles] what’s the method to your madness? 

Em: [sighs] Well, it was too overwhelming. So I made it much more general than I originally planned c– 

Christine: Well, 2018, I mean, how do you even remember what was first and last? 

Em: So that was my problem with my pin collection because I wouldn’t just get pins from like– 

Christine: Sure. 

Em: It wouldn’t just say like, “St. Louis, Missouri” on it, you know? It would say– 

Christine: I see. 

Em: It would be like a, like a rat that says “scrappy” on it. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And I’m like, “Where the fuck did I get this?” So I– Anything that’s spec– And I did this for pins and, um– pins and stickers. So I have a pin collection– 

Christine: Now, how do you organ– Okay, we’ll get to that. But– 

Em: Okay, okay. 

Christine: –how do you organize pins also? I need to know that later. Okay. 

Em: I, I followed– I’m not an– a Disney adult, but they got a few things right out there, and they love their, their pin trading, and so they literally make pin binders. 

Christine: Oh, it’s in binders. Okay, so they’re not on display. It’s like in binders. Smart. 

Em: Yeah. And they’re all– And also I bought match– I bought, um, like 200 pin backs so that way they would all– 

Christine: Oh, yes. 

Em: ’Cause they all have different types of pin backs, and some of them I can’t fucking stand. So I just put them all– I gave them all brand new pin backs. So– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: I know. I feel so like– No one else in the world– 

Christine: Whoo! 

Em: –would care except you– 

Christine: Whoo! 

Em: –so I’m glad I’m saying this. Um, but no, so I, I divided the stickers into– in, um– ba– the main, the main five were, um, if I got it on tour, like obviously got it on tour. 

Christine: Mm. Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Em: So there were some that said like, like the Gateway Arch, I’m just saying St. Louis ’cause I– 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: –or Kansas City or whatever. Where’s the arch? St. Louis? 

Christine: St. Louis. [laughs] 

Em: Um, uh, so if it was like obviously a location– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –I, I put that as like the tour section. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: And then I had a nostalgia section ’cause I get a bunch of like ‘90s retro kind of stickers. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: So I got nostalgia. I got– I put together a, a spooky section ’cause like a lot of my pins and stickers were like a Ouija board or a ghost or something. 

Christine: Right. Sure. 

Em: So it’s spooky, nostalgia, tour. Um, I did one that was just my fandoms, so there’s like a whole section that’s just like Back to the Future and Marvel and Pokémon. 

Christine: Oh, that’s good. 

Em: And then I have another section that was just kind of like miscellaneous, just like– just a, a catch-all, which ended up being just about the same size as the other sections anyway, so. 

Christine: Interesting. 

Em: Um, I really wanted it to be more like, “Oh, I got all of these in Portland. I got all of these in Boston.” 

Christine: Right. There was no way. That’s part of buying the stickers– 

Em: There’s no way. 

Christine: –is like you just are like, “This is an easy thing to put in my backpack, forget about for a while, and then–“ 

Em: Yeah. For years. 

Christine: Yeah, for years. [laughs] Yeah, that’s part of the joy of the sticker is like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –“Oh, there’s really not much to it. There’s not much context.” 

Em: Yeah. My– And you think like, “Oh, it’s so little. It’s like– doesn’t even take up space.” But when you have as many as I do– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –it certainly takes up space. But– 

Christine: Oh, it takes up a lot of psychological space, I’ll tell you that much. 

Em: Certainly. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, the only thing I can’t figure out, which if you have an idea, please leave it in the comments or something, but I along the way have collected quite, quite a number of bumper stickers. Um– 

Christine: Oh, yes, me too. 

Em: And so they’re too big to fit in sticker books. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: So I don’t know where to put them. 

Christine: What if you got– 

Em: But I’m not going to put them on my car either. 

Christine: Yeah, right. What if you got the sticker book– or sorry the binders that have like the sleeves, like plastic sleeves? Like a tall binder or something that’s like the length of it? 

Em: Mm, I could. Yeah, that’s not bad. 

Christine: You could put– I, I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Em: That– That’s the only thing that doesn’t fit in the binders. It’s very frustrating. But other than that– 

Christine: And I guess bumper stickers are different sizes, which is annoying too. 

Em: Yeah, there’s one– there’s two in particular that are like freakishly big. 

Christine: Speaking of, I know I’ve already shown you this, but it was a, a few weeks ago, I think. [Christine stands up, walking offscreen to grab something before returning and sitting back down.] On the floor right now because that’s what my life is like. 

Em: Hm? 

Christine: Um, here’s a bumper sticker I got you recently. Um– 

[Christine holds up a white bumper sticker that says “Here I go in my big gay car.” The words “big gay car” are in large, rainbow-colored, capital letters.] 

Em: Shut up. [gasps] 

Christine: I’ve shown you this already, but it’s been a while. “Here I go in my big gay car. My–“ 

Em: Wait, I want that. I love it. 

Christine: I know. I got it for you. And I said, “I’ll mail it to you.” And that was like two months ago, so um, I will mail it to you eventually. 

Em: That’s so fun. 

Christine: And you can put it– [chuckles] you can put it in your binder. 

Em: That’s so fun. Well, thank you. I love that. And that one was– You know, the only bumper sticker– 

Christine: I went, “Ha!” And then I went, “That’s Em’s. That’s for Em.” 

Em: Well, the only other bumper sticker that I’ve ever actually put on my car is the one you got me, but that’s ’cause it was a magnet, is the Waffle House one. 

Christine: Oh, it’s a magnet. That’s right. I feel like that’s, um, that’s sometimes the way to go. 

Em: Yeah. Um, anyway, so perfect segue, “sigu,” with your little squirrelly scrappy sticker– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –because that was gonna be the reason I drank where I was like, “Damn, like I f–“ I feel probably how you felt when you were cleaning out your upstairs. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: How– What is the update on that, by the way? Are you all clean up here or? 

Christine: I mean, it’s really less cluttered. So I’m like it– it’s still a mess, but like pretty much everything here is stuff I’m like keeping and want to organize. So it’s at least like not all the junk that I’ve been trying to get rid of for years. 

Em: Um, you know, it’s– 

Christine: I just have like a, a attachment problem. I like kept too much stuff, and it was like stuff that just was not necessary. So I feel a lot better. I have– I’ve like cleansed it out of stuff I don’t need anymore. 

Em: I, I always– I hate that middle ground where like it’s cleaner– 

Christine: [groans] 

Em: –than it was, and now I can’t get over that hill to finish it– the job. 

Christine: And it– Yeah, it feels like, “Oh, phew, I got a lot done,” and then you sit on this for eternity like, “Well.” 

Em: And then it slowly grows again. It’s so annoying. I can’t stop myself. 

Christine: Yeah. Yes, and then it grows. I know. So I feel like I’m making progress and then like one step back, two steps forward, you know, the usual. But I think that’s life. Um, and– 

Em: Proud of you. 

Christine: Thank you. And I’m proud of you and your stickers because that is a feat, I tell you. 

Em: Next time I– we record and I’m not in this stupid hotel room– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –um I– we can do that for intermission, I’ll show you my sticker book. 

Christine: Oh, that would be fun. I would love– That feels like the per– I mean, it is like show and tell. 

Em: [chuckles] It is! 

Christine: Bring your sticker book to school. 

Em: It is. Well, no. So I’m very excited. And my, my– To answer your question quickly, I got a pin binder, um– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –which holds like 400 pins, which luckily I don’t have 400, [chuckles]– 

Christine: Oh, thank god. [chuckles] 

Em: –but it at least gives room to build if I, you know– I still have– 

Christine: You don’t feel as like bad about like buying a pin– 

Em: Exactly. 

Christine: –or like if you’re gifted a pin, I’m always like, “Shit, I don’t want to break this or lose it.” 

Em: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “You know, if I put it on my backpack, it’ll fall off.” So yeah. I feel like that’s a nice like in-between. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. I’m very– The, the goal is to never have to need another pin binder ever again. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Um, and so yeah, but I– I’m very excited about that, and that’s probably what I’m gonna do later tonight when I should also be productive and I won’t be, so. 

Christine: Hey, that sounds productive to me. Okay? I don’t know– I mean, not– 

Em: It was lovely. A little cup of tea, a little Law and Order, a little– 

Christine: [groans] I mean, Leona and I– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –are probably gonna be building snowmen out of ice cubes. So I guess– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –if you’re being productive, so am I. 

Em: No, you are being much more productive by entertaining a, a child. 

Christine: It is difficult. 

Em: I am the child in my house. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [laughs] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fair enough. 

Em: Oy-ay-ay. Well, um, Christine, I have a story for you, and I– Not to like promote more tchotchkes, but on my recent trip to Delaware where I went with my mom– I, I told you about that, yeah? 

Christine: Uh, yeah. Wait, remind– Yes, yes, yes. The Delaware trip. Yes. 

Em: Um, we– 

Christine: Sorry, my brain is– [laughs] It’s like, you know, when like an engine sputters, that’s sort of how it feels like in-internally. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I absolutely understand. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: If you said, “You know what it’s like to like have a, a clear brain?” No, I don’t. 

Christine: No, you, you and your sticker book for, for a brief window of time probably have that. 

Em: [laughs] When I look– 

Christine: But not me. [laughs] 

Em: Truly, I get sucked into a world. I look at my stickers; I’m like, “I feel so seen.” But then all of a sudden, I realize that anyone else in the world would be like, “Okay, you’re– You need to get a new hobby.” I feel like– 

Christine: Yeah, your grandkids someday are gonna be like, “Put it in the garage sale,” and you’re going to be like, “Oh my gosh. [laughs] Please.” 

Em: [laughs] Truly. And like it’s so stupid because I’ve officially hit that age where I’m like, “Let me hang out on a Sunday with my sticker book.” 

Christine: I know. 

Em: And I’m like, “What the hell?” Like, “What happened to all the house parties and laws I used to break?” Anyway, um– 

Christine: [laughs] Oh, yeah. You know Em and their wild child. 

Em: Today, if a cop came up to me, uh, they’d be like, “Well, we know what you were up to, uh, in 2008.” And I’m like, “Well, that ain’t me anymore. Here’s my sticker book. You want to take a look?” 

Christine: “I’ve changed. I’ve left that life behind.” 

Em: “I’ve left that life. I’ve– I’m reformed.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, anyway– 

Christine: I never left it or changed it, but– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –I’m glad you’re here with me now. 

Em: [laughs] I still want it. Just nobody else wants to do it with me, and it’s sadder alone. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: That’s really where we are. 

Christine: Fair enough. 

Em: So the sticker book is a– is my, my new– 

Christine: [unintelligible] Place. 

Em: –my new partner in crime, I suppose. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Um, okay, here we go. Yeah. So instead of, you know, big wild house parties and, and hang-hanging out to the wee hours ’cause everyone got married and have kids, and I’m just trying to find hobbies now. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um, I decided that my hobby is gonna go see all 50 states. I went to Delaware with my mom, and I– We went to a bookshop, and I found this little deck of cards, which I know you and I are also like active– not card collectors, but we, we pick up quite a lot of decks. 

Christine: We love a good deck of playing cards. 

Em: Well– 

Christine: For people who never play cards, by the way. 

Em: Not a lick. And if someone– 

Christine: Not a one time. 

Em: And if someone asked me to play fucking cards, I’d go, “Get out of my house.” It’s– 

Christine: I know. I literally ask people, including Em all the time. I’m like, “Does someone want to play War?” And my brother’s like, “I don’t want to play War. Like get away from me.” 

Em: Actually, I fucking love war. [laughs] 

Christine: Finally, I found the right person. I keep asking my brother. He’s like, “Why don’t we play like this– like bridge?” And I’m like, “Get the fuck away from me. I want to play War with Em.” [laughs] 

Em: Did you ever– I remember there being a game. It’s– there has to be a different name now,– 

Christine: Uh, nope. 

Em: But it’s called Egyp– 

Em and Christine: [in unison] Egyptian Ratscrew? 

Christine: Oh, yeah. That’s a classic. Or Asshole, I think it was also called. 

Em: I, I don’t remember. Well, I have, I have older stepsisters– 

Christine: You know, speaking of Alyssa, who’s getting married, she taught it to me, and she called it Peaches, I think. 

Em: Oh, that’s– 

Christine: Like everyone came up with an fake name to like teach it to their younger cousins or whatever ’cause it was called Egyptian Ratscrew. 

Em: Yeah. Um, I don’t know if this is how it’s actually played, but there was a lot of hitting each other in the face, um, in that game? 

Christine: Oh, I don’t recall that being part of the game. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Okay, then my stepsisters were just really mean. 

Christine: You are being bullied, my friend. [laughs] 

Em: I was the little stepsibling, and my step sisters were like, “Oh, yeah, there’s this really fun game that every time you lose around–“ 

Christine: Oh god. 

Em: “–we get to hit you in the face.” [laughs] 

Christine: Oh my god. No wonder you don’t like playing games. It’s all finally making sense, dude. 

Em: Anyway, I would love to play that game. 

Christine: Oh, wait. You’re supposed to slap the pile, not slap each other. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I’m like, “Why is– There’s definitely slapping.” Um. 

Em: No. I would get five-starred in the face. Um. [laughs] 

Christine: That’s not cool, dude. Oh my god. Can I please tell you the other names of this thing? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I mean, of course, Egyptian Ratscrew is certainly not PC by any stretch of the imagination. Um, sometimes abbreviated as, according to Wikipedia, as ERS. Uh, also– 

Em: Oh, that’s my initials. 

Christine: Holy shit! You’re right. Hey! 

Em: So for now it’s just called the Em Schultz game. 

Christine: I love that. Also known as Egyptian War, Bloodystump– 

Em: That’s what I was. 

Christine: Ratslap. I mean, Jesus, this is like– Yeah, you were, you were getting beat up. 

Em: What was your favorite card game? War? 

Christine: That one. No, I loved Egyptian Ratscrew [laughs]. Or do you remember–? It had a weird name, and again, I don’t know if this was even the name or if this was just something people called it, but I think they call it Kemps or something like that. 

Em: Never heard of that. 

Christine: Kemps? Kempers? Kemps? It’s like where you have a secret code with another person. Like you get a partner– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and, um, you don’t know who the partner is or whatever, and you have like a secret tell. 

Em: Got it. 

Christine: Maybe that’s not what it’s called. Um, [laughs] but it was fun, and it was kind of– We played it sometimes at school, and it would be like a good group game where you have, you have to like make a secret like a, like a raise your eyebrows or– and then if you caught the other person doing their tell, you know. Uh, oh, yeah, Kemps it was called. 

Em: I never heard of that. 

Christine: Um, teams of two try to secretly get four cards of the same rank to score a point, and they agreed on a secret non-verbal sign and then swap cards. It’s, it’s fun. Anyway, that was one of my favorites too, but. 

Em: Um, I always wanted to learn how to play Spoons, but I was always too scared to ask. 

Christine: I love Spoon– It’s so easy. 

Em: Is it? I never learned. 

Christine: I have the version, um, with dolphins. Um, instead of spoons, we would put a bunch of dolphins in the middle, and, um, you’d grab the dolphin, but they squeak. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So you’d have to be like really– like you’d have to either be really strategic like quiet about it and slide it back so that like– 

Em: Oh, people aren’t supposed to know that you get them? 

Christine: Yeah. Well, you can’t– So it’s like as soon as one person grabs one, everyone goes for it, and the last one who doesn’t– It’s sort of like musical chairs where like one person– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: There’s one fewer spoon than the group. So basically as soon as somebody has four of the same cards, they take one from the middle, and then as soon as everyone notices that– So you can either grab it, and then everyone kind of goes free-for-all, or you can be really sneaky and just kind of pull it aside and then keep playing and wait for people to notice, you know? 

Em: Gotcha. I was– 

Christine: And– Yeah. 

Em: It felt like– To ask other 12-year-olds how to play Spoons felt like asking a grown man during a game how football goes. 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, yeah. 

Em: I was just like, “I don’t– I’m not gonna ask. I’m j–“ 

Christine: No, I would love to teach you because it really is so easy. It’s just like you pass cards around and try to make four of a kind. 

Em: Oh, okay. Cool. 

Christine: And then like once you do, you grab, um, the spoon, and then I, I did love playing with like the grown-ups ’cause I would always like be really sneaky about grabbing the spoon but look like I was really focused. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: It’s just really fun. I don’t know. Clearly, I like the games where we’re doing like secret surveillance. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: Well, for two people who really hate card games or a– was– 

Christine: Anyway– 

Em: –have never played– 

Christine: –yeah, let’s get back to your story. [laughs] 

Em: Anyway, I got new– I got cards while I was in Delaware. It’s all fucked up because I couldn’t– I got excited about unwrapping it that I ripped like half the paper off. But this is a cryptids deck. Have you seen this before? 

[Em holds up a boxed set of playing cards labeled “Cryptids” across the top in capital letters. Underneath is a drawing Mothman from the chest up. He is holding five blue playing cards in his hands, holding them close to himself, blocking his face except for his large, glowing, red eyes.] 

Christine: Oh! No. 

Em: Okay, so I’m going to show you the inside of them. I promise there’s a reason for this. Um– 

Christine: Oh, I believe you. 

Em: And they all– Not only are they all cryptids, but, um, each of the cards looks like an already real life existing magazine cover– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –but edited to have the cryptid as like the cover model. 

Christine: Oh, that’s clever. 

Em: So this is, um, like CryptidHealth, and it’s like the, the Lizard Man. 

[Em holds up the Two of Clubs from the deck. A fake magazine cover for CryptidHealth features Lizard Man standing in front of a marsh. He is posed from the hips up and is shirtless, imagined here with a muscled torso with a six-pack. He has the head of a lizard with small bumps and spikes that continue from his neck and across his shoulders. The magazine cover text reads, “The Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp. Get his look – fast!”] 

Christine: Instead of Men’sHealth. Oh, that’s fun. 

Em: And then they had like this one– Like I mean– 

[Em switches to the next card, the Three of Clubs. The fake magazine is called Cryptid in large capital letters. The cover features a grassy and hilly field with a wooden fence. Leaning against the fence is a dark creature with a tail. It rests a foot casually on the bottom rung of the fence and rests his arms and chin on the top of the fence, gazing out across the fields.] 

Christine: Life magazine. Oh my god, this is so cool. 

[Em shows the Four of Clubs which features a large Roman-style white building with pillars around it. In the night sky above the building, three UFOs glow brightly with beams of light aimed down towards the ground. The Five of Clubs card is a magazine cover for Cryptid Metal which is written in red block letters. The cover features a flaming skull with its mouth open as if screaming. White block text at the bottom says, “The Banaspati strikes.”] 

Em: So I thought it was super cool. And that looks like a comic book. 

[Em moves to the Six of Clubs card, which reads Cryptid Comics across the top. Underneath, the title is in stylized comic font: Batsquatch. Smaller yellow text reads, “Nine feet of brains, muscle, and blue fur. Defender of Mount St Helens!” A comic-style drawing features Sasquatch with large bat wings on his back, standing on the top of a cliff at night as he looks out across the forest and mountains.] 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And then they actually have a Nickelodeon magazine one, which I thought was cool. 

Christine: [gasps] Now, that’s fun. 

Em: Want to see that? Um– 

Christine: Is that like a slime monster or something? 

Em: You know, it should have been. I don’t know. I, I was just kind of scrolling through real quick. Um, j– ’Cause I, I bought it truly not because I thought I’d play cards, but for inspiration for stories. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So, um, so this was the Nickelodeon one. 

[Em holds up the Four of Diamonds card. This one is in the style of a children’s magazine, featuring a simple drawing of an owl with a blue face, white horns, and tan antlers with a light green background with dark green splats (in the style of Nickelodeon). The magazine title is across the top in white on a wavy orange banner: Kryptid Kidz. Text in orange circles around the drawing read: “The Kidz Choice” and “Part owl, part deer. Dingbat. All mischief.” On the left is a vertical strip of purple with text, “Whinnies like a horse, drinks gasoline, eats bullets. (Don’t try this at home).”] 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: This is the Dingbat. [laughs] 

Christine: The Dingbat. Okay, that’s good though. That feels very Nickelodeon. 

Em: Um, anyway, so I, I got these truly thinking, “Oh, in case I’m ever stumped and need some like inspiration, I will– I’ll do that.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: So that is what ended up happening. I was looking through the cards, and I came across– Do you want to guess which number and, and suit this, this card is that I–? 

Christine: Yes. Think about it. 

Em: Okay. [Em holds the card to their forehead with the blue and white back to the camera.] 

Christine: Five of Diamonds. 

Em: Dude, so close. Six of Hearts. 

Christine: Damn! It’s not close, but sort of close. [laughs] 

Em: Uh, so anyway, I– 

Christine: Right color. 

Em: Right color. Um, so anyway, this is– I went with the six of hearts, and this is the– I– I’m gonna show you the cover halfway through the story because I don’t want to give away how it looks yet. 

Christine: I love this. Okay. 

Em: But you know, use your– 

Christine: Please cover the Dingbat someday because I’m really all about that too. 

Em: I would love to. That would be great. And, and while I do it, by the way, I will eat your– the secret recipe to slime or something for everybody. 

Christine: [gasps] Don’t eat it. 

Em: It– It’s edible. 

Christine: Have you been eating it? [laughs] 

Em: I mean, no, I haven’t. I’ve never made it before. So maybe that’ll be our intermission that time is like– 

Christine: Ah, okay. 

Em: –we’ll just make slime. 

Christine: We can do like– It’s– Yeah, like a little demonstration. 

Em: Some– We’ll do– Well, without telling anyone what the secret is ’cause I’m sworn– 

Christine: Oh, right. 

Em: I’m sworn to secrecy, but I will make it– 

Christine: Fair– 

Em: –and show everyone what it looks like– 

Christine: Fair point. 

Em: –and we can all judge it. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, okay. Anyway, sorry, everybody, who hates this. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I’m not sorry. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors] 

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Em’s Story – The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square 

Em: So here is my story for today. This is The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square. 

Christine: What? 

Em: And, uh, it’s in London. And the address of this place was 50 Berkeley Square, which I think– It does still exist. It does still exist. Um, it was built in 1740, and it was a four-story townhouse in London in a fancy area called Mayfair. 

Christine: Ooh, yes. 

Em: Which I guess is like their Upper West Side. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, fun fact, Winston Churchill also lived in this neighborhood. He lived two doors down. So I like to imagine that he was just like sitting next to a haunted house this whole time. 

Christine: The Nameless Thing? Yeah. 

Em: The Nameless Thing. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah, he was ne– he was next to The Nameless Thing. 

Em: Maybe he was The Nameless Thing. 

Christine: I mean, you s– 

Em: And reporters were like, “Winston Churchill is in this fucking house. What’s going on?” [chuckles] 

Christine: No comment. 

Em: So okay, it was a house built in 1740 in Fancy Pants, London, and un– we’re unsure of the first few residents that lived there. But we do know in the 1820s, one of the first people to live there was, um, a– the prime minister at the time, Prime Minister Canning. He worked under King George IV, fun fact. Um, and when he lived there, he was reporting odd sounds throughout the house, both above him and in the basement. He also had like constant nightmares that were out of character for him. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: So that was back in the 1820s. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: I can’t account for like the first few decades before that, but at least since the 1800s, we’ve been having some things reported by people. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Many other people after him have moved in. Like I could not keep up with the amount of people who have lived in this place. Um, but I’m– I, I didn’t really hear anything outside of Prime Minister Canning’s reports. I guess ’cause he was the prime minister, so his story was more interesting than others. I don’t know if anyone else had experiences or to what degree, but something must have been going on because over time, both the newspapers and the town in general were all aware that this house had ghosts. They– 

Christine: Oh, okay. Oh, wow. So this is like since day one or since the early days. 

Em: Yeah. Since the early days, people knew that this was haunted. And I don’t know where those stories come from, just that enough people lived there and had experiences that this was known as a haunted house. Um– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: And one of the people who is said to have died here– Again, this is all conjecture, but we don’t care about that for me to sound spooky. 

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles] Please. Conjecture “conbleture.” 

Em: [laughs] S– Yes, 100%. 

Christine: Yep. [chuckles] 

Em: Um, okay. So one of the main– one of the first ghosts here at least was this girl named Adeline. She apparently died falling from a window on the top floor. Um, extra sad– 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: –her uncle was abusing her. 

Christine: Oh no! 

Em: And so I guess she tried to escape through the attic window– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –lost her footing, fell, died. 

Christine: Jesus. Oh my god. Okay. 

Em: Now, allegedly, people see a girl hanging from the window, screaming for help– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and sometimes they even see her losing her grip– 

Christine: [sucks in air through teeth] 

Em: –and vanishing before she hits the ground. 

Christine: Well, that’s an traumatic thing to witness. 

Em: I know. I know. 

Christine: Oof, yikes. 

Em: They don’t tell you about that on Zillow. Did– No. [chuckles] 

Christine: No, they do not. Nope. 

Em: Uh, one newspaper actually was quoted saying, “Since then,” so I guess since she died, “more than 50 respectable people have reported seeing Adeline clinging to the windowsill.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: More than 50. That’s like a pretty– That would– I’m surprised Zak Bagans hasn’t gone there. 

Christine: That’s a, that’s a lot. 50 people seeing someone– like over– 50 different accounts of people seeing a little girl hanging and then disappearing af– as she fall– Yeah, that’s a lot to me. 

Em: That’s a lot of people. And I wonder– And that was an old-timey newspaper. That wasn’t recently. So that, that would you would think mean that a lot more since then have seen her. 

Christine: Fair enough. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Another ghost there is a boy who, in another, uh, I don’t know, bad situation– He ends up getting locked in the attic by his parents– 

Christine: [gasps] Jeez. 

Em: –and he was fed food through a hole in the door, and the isolation over time made him go insane is the story. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: Um, we don’t know how– 

Christine: And this was a child? 

Em: That’s, that’s– These are all stories that, that people talk about, but I don’t know how true any of them are. So I’m just gonna go– 

Christine: Right. But it was a child though in the story? 

Em: But in– Yeah, in the story, it was a little boy. 

Christine: Okay, okay. Okay. 

Em: Another girl an– or another ghost here that they say hap-happened to live there at some point was a girl who was killed by one of the servants in the house when she lived there. Um, and now– 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: –people say that they see her skipping down the halls and actually even on the streets nearby, which I– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: It always blows my mind when the ghosts don’t stay in the house. 

Christine: Yeah. And they can kinda just explore. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Hm. 

Em: Um, the only other time I’ve really heard about that is, uh, there was somewhere in Dallas-Fort Worth where there’s the cowboy– used to be like a, like a brothel, and there’s a cowboy named like Cowboy Jake or something, and he’s known to like go window-shopping in town. [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, I feel that I remember Cowboy Jake ’cause it definitely struck something– a chord in my heart just now. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] I, I thought all of a sudden you’d hear like romantic music. 

Christine: [singing “The Trolley Song” from Meet Me in St. Louis] ♪ Ring-ding-ding goes the trolley ♪♪ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I did. That’s what came into min– came straight to mind. 

Em: So Cowboy Jake and Judy Garland are the same person. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: But no, I think that’s the only other one that comes right to mind of like, “Oh, a ghost that haunts the house and leaves the house and haunts other places too.” 

Christine: Yeah. I mean, that’s pretty cool, honestly. 

Em: Imagine if you like just put out a really nice window display and all of a sudden you see Cowboy Jake admiring it, I’d be so honored. 

Christine: I would– Or what if he was like, “Ugh.” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah, that’d be s– 

Christine: That would make me sad. 

Em: If he just kept moving, I’d be like, “Are you fucking kidding me, Jake?” 

Christine: “How dare you?” 

Em: Someone should make a window display of Cowboy Jake and see if it brings him over to you. 

Christine: I’m sure he would. Like a Western display? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Anyway, so those are three of the like random ghosts we have no real explanation for, but those stories have kind of locked themselves into place. Um– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: So someone fell from the window; someone was locked in the attic; another girl was killed by a servant. And, um, there were also times when neighbors throughout the years, especially in the 1800s– I think, well, well– and one article I was thinking of is in the 1840s. But there were so many weird noises coming out of this house that the neighbors all rallied together to go investigate it when it was abandoned because they were like, “What the fuck is going on in here?” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Uh, apparently they didn’t– they did not find anything, but other people think that– These are more of the skeptics. They’re like, “Oh, it was never haunted. This was like maybe some sort of criminal front. And maybe they used the ghost story as like a cover, so that way they could make a bunch of sounds at night, and nobody would be brave enough to go check,” you know? 

Christine: Okay, okay. Yeah, I guess it’s a okay cover. I don’t know. 

Em: I don’t know. But either way, even the skeptics are admitting that this place makes some weird fucking sounds at night. [laughs] 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: So. 

Christine: See? 

Em: Speaking of the 1840s– This is 20 years after Prime Minister Canning lived there and was making reports. 20 years later, there in 1840, the first real paranormal account happens in this house. And it’s a 20-year-old. His name is Robert Warboys which feels– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –feels like the most ‘40s name I could think of. 

Christine: Warboys? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Feels like a weird video game. 

Em: Really? I think of it as like one of those old-timey last names that no one has anymore. 

Christine: How do you spell that? 

Em: Like “war” and “boys.” 

Christine: I– It– 

Em: Like– 

Christine: It sounds to me like a weird like f– 

Em: I can see it. I know what you’re saying, but in my– I think ’cause I– in my head, I think like Daddy Warbucks from Annie. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Warboys, Wa– Yeah, okay. I can see that. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: And I just think it’s like, “Oh, it sounds like such a–“ 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Like a rough and tumble kind of guy. 

Christine: I got you. I’ll allow it. 

Em: It’d be real silly if he was the daintiest little feminine man in the world and his last name is Warboys. [chuckles] 

Christine: I kinda love– I would love that ’cause like, [sing-song tone] “War boys,” you know? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: It feels– It’s not like “war men”. It’s like, [sing-song tone] “War boys. Let’s go, girls.” 

Em: I like to think there’s like a, like a s– uh, a queer comic book called “War Boys,” and it’s– 

Christine: I love that. I– Seriously, I think that’s actually a perfect, uh, perfect match. 

Em: Perfect. Well, uh, Robert Warboys, he– It’s 1840 again. He is 20 years old. He goes to the bar, and he hears about this haunted house in town. I don’t know if he’s from the area. It sounds like he’s not, and he’s just passing through. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: And they’re like, “Oh, did you see that haunted house? Blah-blah-blah. I hear this happens there, and this happens there, and this happens there.” He calls bullshit to all the people in the bar talking about it. He actually calls it “unadulterated poppycock,” which is– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Can you imagine? 

Christine: That is really bold, [chuckles] my friend. 

Em: And actually also very justifying of our rumor– of our theory that maybe he’s like an effeminate little boy because I, I feel like he could say “bullshit” or he could call it [chuckles] “unadulterated poppycock,” and I’m like– 

Christine: Poppycock is a crazy way to say that, and I love it. 

Em: [chuckles] And I’m like, “You sound so silly. I love that.” 

Christine: “You are being extremely silly.” 

Em: Um, I know that was just like the wording of the time, but in today’s world, if like my father had the nerve to call something unadulterated poppycock, I would go, “What’s happening?” Um– 

Christine: “Please question yourself, sir.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Please ask why you’re doing this.” 

Em: The other people, uh, in the bar that he called bullshit on were like, “If you’re that fucking brave or you don’t believe us, then you go spend a night in there.” 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: And Robert Warboys, who’s this 20-year-old bro dude or ha– that’s what he’s trying to pro-proclaim he is– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –he did not back down from a challenge. And so that night, he leaves the bar and goes straight to the house and calls the landlord and is like, “Give me your most haunted room for one night, please.” 

Christine: Okay, so now, is this an apartment? A ho– like a hotel? How is he just like going in there? 

Em: Excellent question. It is a random townhouse. And for anyone wondering, the second floor is said to be where the most haunted room is. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Um, but it was also 1840, and it sounds like this place kind of on and off was abandoned– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –and someone just kind of owned it. So I don’t know if he was really putting anyone out by asking to like stay in the vacant room. 

Christine: You can just like get access maybe from the landlord– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –to stay there. Okay. 

Em: It sounds like the landlord was like, “If you give me 50 bucks, you can stay there tonight. No one’s in there anyway.” 

Christine: Gotcha. Okay. 

Em: Although the landlord was very hesitant about this. He– And not be– not for the reasons you and I would be hesitant that a strange man wants to be in my house. 

Christine: Right. [laughs] 

Em: He– I think because he thought it was truly so haunted, he was like, “You don’t want to do that. I don’t know who–“ 

Christine: Really? 

Em: “–put you up to this, but you don’t want to do that.” 

Christine: Oh, wow. Okay. I was not expecting that take. All right. 

Em: And Robert Warboys is like, “Mm, no. I–“ 

Christine: “Try again.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “Actually, this is all poppycock. And–“ 

Christine: “Unadulterated Poppycock, if you will.” 

Em: “–and I’m gonna be here. And I’m gonna say, and nothing’s gonna happen.” 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: Um, the landlord was like, “Okay, but if you stay, you have to– There’s two, two requests. That’s it. First one, here’s my gun. Please take it.” 

Christine: “Here’s my first request. Take my weapon.” What? 

Em: [laughs] First of all, strange man in my house. Now, also you’re armed. Um– 

Christine: “Please arm yourself.” Yeah, yeah. 

Em: “And rule two, if anything happens, you have to call me. If anything happens.” And I guess– 

Christine: If anything happens. 

Em: Um, I guess at the time, there was like a rope in the room that the guy was going to be staying in that had a bell on the other end of it, and that rope led all the way to the landlord’s room. 

Christine: Oh, so he could ring the bell from– Okay. Okay. 

Em: So that way the be– the landlord would hear the bell in his room, but the guy could– It was almost like pulling like a, like a pulley or something. Um– 

Christine: Yeah. Like a little like– bu– they ba– used to have servants’ bells. 

Em: Yes. Yes. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So the landlord was like, “Please ring that if anything happens. Also here’s a gun.” 

Christine: “Also if you need a extra cup of tea–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–just do a little ding-a-ling-a-ling, and I’ll be right up.” 

Em: And also um, again, I feel like I’ve had to say this weirdly too many times on this show– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –but shooting a ghost has never solved anything. 

Christine: I don’t think so. I think it’s only caused more problems– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: –in my, in my recollection. 

Em: So anyway, he goes, “Fine, give me your gun. I’ll sit up there. Maybe I’ll shoot something. We’ll see.” 

Christine: “We’ll see.” 

Em: Uh, not even an hour into Robert Warbo– Warboys being in this room, the landlord hears his bell ringing and then a gunshot. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh no. 

Em: The landlord runs upstairs, and this is what he sees. This is a quote from one of the newspap– newspapers back then: “Sir Robert is– was wedged in the corner of the room, the still smoking pistol caught in the white-knuckled grip of his fear-contorted corpse.” 

Christine: Corpse! 

Em: “His lips were peeled back from his clenched teeth in a grimace of horror, and–“ 

Christine: What? 

Em: “–and his eyes seemed to be literally bulging from his skull.” So he– truly the– like died of fright. 

Christine: What the fucking hell? Okay, this poor little guy. 

Em: The– I know. 

Christine: I didn’t think he was going to die from the ghost. 

Em: Imagine all the people who dared him at the bar. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: They’re like, “Eugh, that–“ 

Christine: I know. You must feel real shitty now. But you’re also like, “Told ya.” 

Em: [laughs] I know. It’s like which– Hm, two things can be true at once. 

Christine: It’s like, “Hm. Yeah. But like when is it too– is it too soon to say, ‘Told you so’? Probably.” 

Em: [laughs] You know the first time everyone got together at the bar like a week later, and they’re like, “Can we say it yet?” 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: “cause that was crazy.” 

Christine: “Are we okay?” Yeah. Oh god, that’s– 

Em: Uh, the landlord ended up looking around to be like, “What the fuck this guy shoot at?” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And he found the bullet mark, but there was nothing. There was nobody there. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: There was nothing there. The room was left completely untouched. 

Christine: What the fuck, dude? 

Em: And that was– that began at least the lore that this house kills people to– like scares them to death is essentially– 

Christine: I don’t like that. Like I’m always about– down to go to a haunted house and get scared and all that. I love it, but I don’t necessarily want my life to be at risk. I don’t feel the need to be armed hopefully, you know? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And also like it didn’t even seem to help that he was armed. 

Em: Right. It’s like, “Well, I guess I’m just walking in to not make it out, I guess.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, I don’t feel good about any of this. 

Em: Well, it was after this story: one, that the house became known as “the house that scares you to death”; but two, this is when the town got the name for the creature that must be killing people in this house, and it became known as The Nameless Thing. 

Christine: Like that’s actually– I thought it was super cute when you first said it, and now I feel really threatened about it. 

Em: It was because of the cutesy rich neighborhood: The N-Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square. It sounds like something– 

Christine: Posh. 

Em: It sounds like, like The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants books. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It sounds like a Paddington– like a chapter in Padding–. I’ve never read Paddington, but it sounds like something from Paddington Bear. I don’t know. 

Em: [chuckles] Well, so in 1843 (this is only three years later), the house is still abandoned, dilapidated. I guess a landlord or maybe like a property owner still exists– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but it seems like people are not living here. 

Christine: Sheesh. 

Em: There are two sailors in town. Uh, their ship came into port that day, I think. Their names were Edward and Robert, and they went out drinking. They went out drinking so much that they accidentally spent all their money that they were supposed to use on a hotel drinking. 

Christine: [chuckles] Oops. 

Em: So they ended up not having a place to stay. They couldn’t afford it. 

Christine: If you keep drinking, you don’t need a hotel. 

Em: Yeah, it keeps you warm. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, but it ended up keeping them out a little too late, and they needed a place to crash but had no money. So they ended up– 

Christine: Okay, I see where we’re going. 

Em: –either hearing about this house or walking past it and seeing that it was abandoned. They snuck in to sleep. And of course, of all the rooms they decided to sleep in, it was the haunted room. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: So it’s said that Edward, as soon as he went in there, he told Robert, “Hey, this room makes me feel like really freaking weird. Like–“ 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Em: “–there’s something here. Something– It feels like something’s looking at us. I feel really anxious.” But what are you gonna do? AlSo they were both drunk, so I think they just went to bed. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Soo– which I– You and I have had that experience– 

Christine: Totally. 

Em: –where you’re like, “Oh, uh, there’s definitely something in this hotel room. Anyway, good night.” 

Christine: [laughs] “Anyway.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Anyway, love you. Bye.” [laughs] 

Em: So soon after falling asleep, Edward, the one who was feeling anxious– 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: –wakes up to a really bad smell in the house. 

Christine: That’s bad already. It’s bad. 

Em: Then he hears heavy but slow loud footsteps coming up the stairs. 

Christine: Hey, that’s so frightening. Especially like you’re in an abandoned place. You’re already feeling on edge. You’re like, “Could this be someone who like owns the pla–“ Like you don’t even know. It sounds like it could be someone threatening. You don’t even have the landlord’s gun with you probably. 

Em: [laughs] “Finally. Maybe I need the gun.” Yeah. 

Christine: I get it. Now I would be like, “Where’s my gun that I don’t own?” 

Em: Well, I will actually say they did have a gun with them. 

Christine: Oh, they did? Okay, okay, okay. That must have been comforting for a mi– for five seconds before they realized it was The Nameless Thing. 

Em: Well, the window– uh, the window didn’t open by itself, and so they were using the gun to wedge the window open, and so– 

Christine: [laughs] That’s a very Christine move. Okay, go on. 

Em: [laughs] –and so their gun was actually on the other side of the room. So ima– It’s like a horror movie when you’re lying in bed, and, you know, your weapon’s all the way over there. 

Christine: You like reach over onto the nightstand, and you’re like, “Oh, shit.” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: “Oh god. Fuck.” 

Em: “I needed a goddamn breeze tonight, didn’t I?” 

Christine: Mm-hmm, Mm-hmm. 

Em: So anyway, they hear this heavy loud footsteps. He’s coming up the stairs. 

Christine: Nightmare. 

Em: He wakes up Robert, and both of them not only hear the footsteps, but then once the steps get to the top of the stairs, they hear something heavy and wet– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –dragging itself– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –towards them. And they hear a footstep and then a sloshy dragging. 

Christine: Shlur– A lurch. 

Em: A lurch. 

Christine: Yuck. 

Em: And then all of a sudden, they see the shadow on the floor getting closer to them and the sound of their own door creaking open. 

Christine: [gasps] [whisper screams] Ahh! 

Em: And then they see the monster jump towards them. 

Christine: It jumps? Uh-oh. 

Em: Edward reaches for the gun, but this thing was faster than them, landed on top of him, and wrapped itself around Edward’s neck. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Well, like, see, this is also unfair ’cause it’s like if you’re gonna be moving really fast, then don’t slowly stomp down the hallway and make me think like, “Oh, at least I have the advantage of speed on my side,” you know? 

Em: That’s– But that’s the, that’s the last– 

Christine: That’s so scary. 

Em: That’s an, an extra “A-ha!” moment of like, “Ooh!” 

Christine: It is. It’s like it’s lurching, and then all of a sudden, it’s like lurch! 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I mean, oh god, help me. I’m– No, I don’t like this one bit. 

Em: Well, so Robert was able to escape. He actually found a cop in town, and the cop followed him back. But when they got back, they could not find Edward in the room anymore, but the house was silent. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: They ended up searching the house, and when they got down to the basement, they found Edward on the stairs, his neck broken, his head– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –his head contorted in a weird way, his mouth wide open as if it were screaming, and his eyes wide with horror like the last person. 

Christine: Shut up. Ew, that’s so grotesque. 

Em: Another version is that Edward was not found, uh, on the basement stairs, but that, uh, Robert actually watched the monster wrap around Edward and then throw Edward out the open window onto a fence post which impaled him. 

Christine: Oh god. Okay. 

Em: Either way, I’m pretty sure Robert went to fucking jail for murder. Like no one’s gonna believe– 

Christine: I– I mean, really– That’s a really rough sell. Like, “You gotta believe me. It was lurching.” [sighs] 

Em: Yeah. Yeah. Uh, from here, depending on the story you hear, the monster takes many shapes. Because all we ever heard was “the monster,” but people kind of used context clues to put together what they thought the monster looked like. And so– 

Christine: Yeah, and it’s making me uncomfortable that I don’t know more detail mentally. 

Em: Well– 

Christine: Like I just picture like a blob. 

Em: Right. And so a lot of people say that it’s just like this literal amorphous m– gl– like slimy blob. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Because they were hearing something wet and like suctiony kind of walking towards them. 

Christine: Sounds like a blob. Yeah, like a swamp monster or something. 

Em: They also say that maybe it was a gray mist. Some people say brown mist. Other people say it’s a shadow person. Other people say it was one collection of multiple shadows. 

Christine: [gasps] Like Legion. 

Em: Hate that. 

Christine: Oh, ah! [makes retching noise] 

Em: But a lot of people say that, um– Through all of this, because it was heavy and wet and dragging itself and felt like it had some suctions and was able to wrap itself around his neck and everything, people have decided that The Nameless Thing on Berkeley Square is a giant octopus. 

[Em holds up the cryptid card for The Nameless Thing, the Six of Hearts. An antique style newspaper titled The Cryptid and dated “Saturday, June 13, 1873, features a black and white illustration of a young girl in a parlor. She is trying to get out of her chair and run away as tentacles emerge from a framed square hole in the wall, reaching for her. A caption in the bottom left corner reads,”The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square.”] 

Christine: [gasps] Shut the fuck up. Okay, Em’s holding up the card now. The cryptid– It looks like The Cryptid Times. Okay, Saturday– 

Em: Is this like The Saturday Evening Post or something? Sa– 

Christine: [gasps] “The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square.” It’s like an old-timey sketch from a newspaper. It’s like a Victorian girl sitting in a chair, and these giant tentacles coming through like a frame it looks like. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like a mirror or a frame, like coming toward her. Eugh! 

Em: Yeah. So anyway, that is, uh, what we know. We assume it’s an octopus. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: And then people are like, “Well, how would an octopus survive in London?” And– 

Christine: That’s a great question. How would a legion of demons “sclurch” along the floor? 

Em: [laughs] Sclurch. 

Christine: And you know, I have questions too, so shut the fuck up. 

Em: Well, it’s– 

Christine: Also I was thinking giant squid, but I think like same vibes, right? 

Em: Same vibes. Tentacles. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Tentacles. 

Christine: Tentacles. 

Em: Um, it– Well, a lot of people defend this argument by saying, “Well, he must live under the streets in the sewer.” And h– At the time, London had a– 

Christine: Just to be clear, I’m not signing off on that when I said– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I– It doesn’t mean I’m signing off immediately on the explanation of the octopus. I just think like have an open mind, everyone. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah, understood. I hear you. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Uh, I guess at the time London had a rat problem, and so they– I don’t know if they still do. I’m sorry, London. I don’t know enough about your rats. Um– 

Christine: It feels like you would. No offense. 

Em: It does feel like I would. Um– 

Christine: Not you. London. 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] It feels like, Em, you would have a rat problem. No, it feels like London would have a rat problem still. Like I don’t see– I mean New York still has a rat problem. DC still has a rat problem. I don’t see why London wouldn’t. 

Em: DC has a horrible rat problem. Um– 

Christine: DC’s is crazy. 

Em: Uh, no. I, I, I took it as a compliment though. Like with my ADD– ADHD– 

Christine: Oh, that you would know. 

Em: –that I would just have random knowledge about that. 

Christine: I thought– Okay. I thought you were insinuating that I, um, claimed that you had a rat problem yourself– 

Em: No. [laughs] 

Christine: –and I was like, “That’s really a rude thing to say. I promise that’s not what I meant.” [laughs] 

Em: I thought you were saying, “It feels like something you would know about.” And I was like, “Well.” 

Christine: That– You know what? That I will sign off on. It does feel like something you would know. 

Em: So I’m disappointed in myself, but something to spiral through tonight. Um– 

Christine: Yep, yep. 

Em: Anyway, people say, “Well, obviously it lives in the sewers under London and lives off of all the rats. That’s how it exists here.” 

Christine: Ah, obviously. 

Em: Um, and when it can’t get an extra helping, instead of eating rats, it eats the people that live in some crack above the sewer. 

Christine: Okay, but like did it eat anybody? 

Em: That’s a great question. It just scared them to death. 

Christine: Yeah, I don’t know that it ate anyone, did it? 

Em: No, that’s a good point. So what the fuck a– 

Christine: So explain that. 

Em: What the fuck are all these blogs talking about then? Um– 

Christine: Yeah, really? Come on, guys. 

Em: Well, okay. So now we’re in the 1870s. Uh, and the house is bought by a guy named Mr. Meyers for him and his bride-to-be. But guess what? Before the wedding, his wife dumped him. His fianceé dumped him. 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: So he’s heartbroken. He locks himself away in this house as if it’s his personal tower, and he wanders the halls at night with a candle, apparently just crying and crying and crying. So sad. This actually added to the reports from neighbors saying that this place was haunted because they would see a random light in the middle of the night wandering the halls, and they’d hear wailing at odd hours. [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh, oh. 

Em: It was like, “No, girl. He was just depressed.” 

Christine: “He’s just really sad. He’s not a giant squid. Leave him alone.” 

Em: So if you’re having a depr– 

Christine: He’s just like squelching through his tears. 

Em: If you’re having a depressive era, just know that maybe you’re someone’s neighborhood lore, you know? 

Christine: And like, isn’t that fun? 

Em: That’s fun. 

Christine: Let that brighten your day for just a glimpse, you know. 

Em: It would help me. I’d be like, “At least I like am someone’s like dinner conversation.” [chuckles] 

Christine: “At least I’m good for something.” Yeah. 

Em: Uh, there are more extreme rumors that he was so devastated by this heartbreak that he got into like devil worship to try and get her back– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. That makes sense. 

Em: –which added fuel to the rumors that the house is haunted. Um, they also use it as like a justification as to why it was haunted to begin with, and maybe he brought them all in. Um– 

Christine: Okay. Like his like ener– negative energy, I guess? 

Em: Maybe or like– 

Christine: Again, like that’s a lot to put on this guy. He’s just depressed. 

Em: He’s going through a lot. Um– 

Christine: Sheesh. 

Em: And fun fact, by the way, he actually failed to pay his taxes, probably because he was so fucking depressed. 

Christine: Yeah, he– ’Cause when he got to the part that said “spouse.” [fake crying] 

Em: Oh, “dependent.” Oh. [fake crying] 

Christine: Anyway. 

Em: Well, he couldn’t pay his taxes, but the magistrate excused it, quote, “because he lived in the haunted house.” 

Christine: Oh, they were like, [laughs] “Actually, if anyone gets a pass.” 

Em: They were like, “You’re going through it. You’re– Like, we don’t need to know about that.” 

Christine: I get it. 

Em: They probably didn’t even want to touch the haunted papers. Um– 

Christine: It’s too bad. [chuckles] 

Em: Okay. A few years after that, a guy named Lord Lyttelton, who I feel like I’ve said his name before in past stories, but, um, he was interested in paranormal stuff. 

Christine: He sounds like Lord Farquaad. 

Em: He is a little evil. Um, but anyway, he heard that this place was haunted. He was in town. He wanted to stay the night, try his hand at this haunted room. He was a skeptic, um, but he also wasn’t an idiot. And he was like, “Based on everything else I’ve heard, I’m bringing my own fucking gun.” So– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: He stayed– 

Christine: “And I’m not using it to prop the window open,” I guess. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] “I’m snuggling it.” Um, so in bed that night, he hears shuffling and apparently sees a shadowy ball of tentacles. 

Christine: First of all, that feels a little bit suspicious. Like a little sus– 

Em: On the nose. 

Christine: –that you see a shadowy ball of like t– Like it feels like somebody in the corner has a flashlight and is going like, [in a spooky voice] “Whoo-ooo” with their fingers. 

Em: It does just feel like a w– like if you’re looking at it, if you’re thinking of just a shadow of a ball of tentacles, that’s just like a wig or something. 

Christine: That’s what I– Yeah. It’s like your fingers are like– You can make it up like somebody’s doing a shadow puppet. I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah. I, I don’t know. Maybe he just wanted the attention. 

Christine: It feels like you’d see a blob, and then you’d be like, “Oh my god, it’s tentacles.” And it’s like, “Mm.” 

Em: You’re right. 

Christine: “No. No, that’s just like the fireplace logs.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t know. I just feel like– Yeah, I agree with you. I mean, not that I should be just like shitting on this guy’s, um, observations, but it just feels like a stretch. 

Em: Well, I mean, it– Every time I’m sleeping in a new place, the shadows freak me out at night and like if I were– 

Christine: Exactly. And especially if you’re on edge. 

Em: And going there knowing that it’s haunted, I mean, it could have been a– 

Christine: By an octopus. 

Em: It could have been like a, a plant, like a fern or something, you know? 

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. 

Em: Either way, for the story, at the very least– 

Christine: It could have been the stuffed octopus they keep in the corner. [laughs] 

Em: That would be hysterical if the landlord was like– 

Christine: That would be crazy. 

Em: –“We’re just gonna keep it right here.” 

Christine: “We’re just gonna put that here next to this flashlight and see what happens.” [chuckles] 

Em: [laughs] Well, he ends up shooting at this thing. 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: Um, should have hit it I– if it’s like just in his bedroom, and he has a whole ass shotgun with him. 

Christine: Now, was he shooting at the shadow? ’Cause it’s like, well, if you’re shooting at the shadow, it’s– 

Em: Now, that’s a good question. 

Christine: You should be shooting at what’s casting the shadow. But again, now I’m getting a little, uh, in the weeds. Sorry. 

Em: I– You’re not asking questions. 

Christine: I’ve got a lot of questions. [laughs] 

Em: I haven’t asked you to stop. You know what I’m saying? Um– 

Christine: [laughs] I know, but I think, I think maybe you’re too nice to do that, so I’ll tell myself to stop. 

Em: Well, he shot, he shot at something. He at least shot at the shadow, which is a great point that like that’s not what you shoot at. Um– 

Christine: That’s not really how that works. Yeah. Unless it’s like a shadow, like a shadow figure, you know. 

Em: Another thing that’s interesting to me is that he then just like went to sleep and then decided he would investigate in the morning. 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: And I’m like, “You weren’t scared to see if it was still alive?” 

Christine: That’s a choice. Although I feel like you do hear that, right, of like the paranormal apathy or whatever. Uh, I forget who called– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: I think Astonishing Legends talks about that a lot where people will write in and be like, “I saw this like ridiculous thing and shadow person, and then I just rolled over, went to sleep.” Like it seems like a thing that happens at night. Like people will– 

Em: I mean, I’ve had that when I saw my grandpa. Um– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but I, but– I don’t know. If I had enough adrenaline to want to slay something– 

Christine: Fair enough. If you’re shooting a gun, it feels a little bit like maybe that would kind of shake you out of your stupor. 

Em: I would really love to talk to a– like a psychologist if I had enough brain power and feeling to want to shoot something but then go to bed. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: That would be crazy. 

Christine: Yes. Yes, I would agree with that. Yeah. 

Em: So he shoots at this thing. He wakes up the next morning to go look for it, and it’s not there, which duh, he had all night to get away. But also– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –maybe there was just nothing there to begin with. Um– 

Christine: Is there a bullet hole? Did they ever discuss that? Or was it just like we don’t even know? 

Em: There was like bullet marks, but then you could say he was just shooting the wall, just to say he shot something. 

Christine: And also like other people were shooting in there before. So I don’t know. It feels– 

Em: Yeah, this is the third person with a gun. 

Christine: Jesus. I mean, okay. 

Em: And when asked about it later– I don’t know what he went through. I don’t know if he was like maybe totally freaked out. Maybe he was just doing it for the newspapers. But when asked about the house, he did say that it was, quote, “supernaturally fatal to body and mind.” 

Christine: [laughs] Supernaturally fatal. 

Em: Which if I– Remember– [sighs] Remember when we wrote a book? Um, remember– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –in the back of one of them when we had to write like quotes or we– like we were supposed to get quotes from other people, and I was like, “No, no, no, we’ll just do it ourselves.” 

Christine: I– Yeah. No, we were both supposed to get quotes– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and then you were like, “I’ll handle it,” and I was like, “Thank god ’cause I don’t feel like it." 

Em: [laughs] Well, I did something on the back of one of them where like it was a quote from Zak Bagans, but it, it was like something he said like on his show and not directly about us or our book. 

Christine: Extremely good. Extremely good. 

Em: I feel like I would do that again here with Lord Lyttelton where like if we had to do another book and like the quote was– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –“supernaturally fatal to body and mind.” [laughs] 

Christine: Like that feels like the biggest compliment ever. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I’d be like, “Thanks so much.” 

Christine: “That’s so kind.” 

Em: So okay. A few years after he’s there, a man and his daughters move in. Um, immediately, day of, the daughter’s like, “What’s that really bad smell?” 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: She actually said it was similar to like a zoo and like the animals hadn’t been cleaned up lately. 

Christine: Oh? Okay, so like– 

Em: Like bad. 

Christine: –poop. 

Em: Yeah. Um– 

Christine: Poop smell. 

Em: Well, a day later– 

Christine: Or sewage! 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: Just saying. 

Em: Christine. Well, the day– the next day that same daughter’s fiancé was gonna come to town as well and stay with them, so the maid went upstairs to fix up his room, the haunted room, of course. 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: And very soon after, the family hears the maid screaming in horror from that room. And they run up to find her on the floor– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –repeating non-stop, “Don’t let it touch me.” 

Christine: [gasps] Ew, ew, ew, ew. I’m glad she’s not dead. I thought we were gonna find another one, and that was sad. But wow, that’s dark. 

Em: She was in total shock. She couldn’t say what she saw. 

Christine: [sucks in air through teeth] 

Em: She just kept saying, “Don’t let it touch me.” So they brought her to like a mental hospital– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –and within an hour, she was dead. 

Christine: No! Why did I say it? Why did I even go there? 

Em: [chuckles] Well, the next day, the fiancé like was already probably on his– 

Christine: He’s like, “Doo-doo-doo. Here I come.” 

Em: –like three day Oregon trail trek to get here. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. Oh no. 

Em: So he finally shows up, and he’s like, “Oh my god, that’s crazy. I can’t– Like what did she find? Let me go investigate and see what she saw.” 

Christine: What an idiot. Go run a– far away. Everybody, run away. 

Em: Well, so he goes up there by himself. Sure enough, the family hears him screaming. The story, uh, on some sources also said there were gunshots. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: Um, but that could be getting mixed up with the other stories. They find him upstairs dead– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and his face was, quote, depending on the source, “twisted in horror” or “contorted in fear.” 

Christine: Hm. I think I would say those are probably similar, uh– 

Em: Yeah, similar enough. 

Christine: –similar if not same. 

Em: So that’s now like the fourth or fifth person in that room to die from fright. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s really not good news. 

Em: Nowadays, um, it is an antique bookshop called– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: –called Maggs Brothers. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: It is still said to be haunted to this day. Um, employees have said that, um, you know, they’ve experienced some spooky stuff. Although the owner– I don’t know if he’s just trying to like get away from the original lore of this, but he’s like, “Oh, there were ghosts, but they’re of the authors connected to the books.” It’s like– 

Christine: Yeah, right. 

Em: –“Okay, guy.” 

Christine: Well, I’m sure he’s just f– sick of filling in bullet holes in the walls. I mean, that’s got to be really annoying. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Imagine how much toothpaste that would take. 

Em: [laughs] Thank you for admitting what you use ’cause I knew it was not gonna be the right material. 

Christine: It’s certainly not like the caulk or whatever they call it that I refuse to say. 

Em: They call it “poppycaulk” actually. 

Christine: Poppycaulk. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Fill the walls with poppycaulk. 

Em: Unadulterated poppycaulk i– toothpaste. 

Christine: Oh, actually that’s pretty g– fun. I like that. 

Em: [sighs] So anyway, uh, he says the ghosts are connected to the books, which I guess if you’re there by yourself at night that– you got to tell yourself something. 

Christine: I mean, exactly. And I like– Honestly, I’m sure it’s not not that either. Like I’m sure they’re there too probably, you know. 

Em: Well, the employees– This is how haunted the place still is. The second floor, where all this– where all the activity is? 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Employees are not allowed to go up that– to that entire floor even to use it as storage. Even the manager himself is not allowed to go up there. It is prohibited by the police. There is– 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: –apparently, a notice either still on the wall or in the office or something, but there’s a police report from the 1950s that bans anyone from going up there. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: Um– 

Christine: From the 1950s still? Wow. 

Em: 1950s. So I don’t know how tightly– 

Christine: [sighs] That’s– 

Em: –or loosely that rule is followed, but the employer– the employees do say like, “We are not allowed up there.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah, that’s pretty nutty. 

Em: Investigators, I guess, have been up there, or have gone up to the floor at least and maybe not the room. I’m not sure. But investigators have gone up there. They said that they haven’t found much activity. However, um, 50 Berkeley Square is still called by many “the most haunted house in London.” And even my favorite, Harry Price, who was the Zak Bagans before Zak Bagans– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –he l– back in the 1920s, said that he looked into the place, and he believed that it was a, quote, “particularly nasty poltergeist” that lived there. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: Uh, one art– 

Christine: I mean, I would believe that. That sounds like what it’s– what is happening. 

Em: Yeah. And one article– I mean, it’s literally just scaring people. Maybe he’s just really good at it. Um– 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: One article said that the “walls of the house are found saturated with electric horror.” 

Christine: Ooh! That’s beautiful. 

Em: It’s like, “Okay, poetry.” 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: And, uh, to this day, people, I’m assuming mainly employees, have reported that there are sounds of moving, dragging, and items throwing themselves, uh, upstairs. Apparently, on their– on the, the main floor too, you can hear dragging and things moving themselves around. You hear knocking upstairs. You smell strange smells. There’s moving mists. The doors and windows will slam themselves open and shut. 

Christine: Oof. 

Em: People hear old bells ringing even though the bell is no longer there. 

Christine: Oh, the like little servant bell? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Oh, and that landlord probably can still hear it in his dreams. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Well, he’s definitely dead by now, but like– [chuckles] 

Em: [laughs] His great-grandson can. 

Christine: I mean, oof. Oh, god. Yes, for sure. 

Em: People hear screaming upstairs, crying upstairs, footsteps banging around upstairs. They’ve apparently seen items throw themselves out of the window. 

Christine: Oh my god. Like the girl. Oh no. 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: And the guy. Oh, wait, hold on. The guy also, they said, was thrown out the window, Edward. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Or potentially, one of the stories, right? 

Em: Also that confirms that there are items upstairs still, and they’re just like chucking them. It’s like, “If you’re not going to come up here and clean this place up, I’ll do it.” 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Good point. Like, “Get this shit out of my house.” Yeah. 

Em: People in older period clothing have been seen standing in the windows. Um– 

Christine: Mm. I hope they’re not trapped there. That sounds dark. 

Em: Yeah, I mean, that’s a good point. But I guess if the windows open and closing, at least they’re getting some fresh air. 

Christine: Oh, that’s nice. Yeah. Use their gun to prop it open for a bit. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Thank god one of the haunts here– nobody hears a fucking gun just going off. 

Christine: That would be extremely upsetting if that were like a constant. Yeah. 

Em: Can you imagine if that was the way your house haunts you is that you just hear random gun violence? 

Christine: I wonder if that’s a thing tha– ‘Cause I feel like you hear other– Like people hear car crash repeating or like people falling. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I wonder if that’s ever anywhere like a– Is that a thing in like Gettysburg or something? Do people hear gunshots? 

Em: Oh, yeah. Well, I’ve also– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I’ve heard, um– 

Christine: And cannonballs I’ve heard. Yeah. 

Em: It’s funny you mentioned that ’cause I was gonna say I think I only ever hear about that on like battlefields like– 

Christine: Like battlefields, right. 

Em: I grew up– 

Christine: Maybe it’s ’cause there’s so much of it. 

Em: I grew up on an old battlefield, and everyone was always saying, “Oh, I heard a gunshot. I heard a gunshot.” But also we live in Virginia. 

Christine: [laughs] Brag. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. Yeah. “Quit flexing.” Um– 

Christine: I lived in downtown Cincinnati. I heard many gunshots. Uh– [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. So it’s like I can’t tell if that’s real or someone was just like shooting in their backyard, you know. 

Christine: That’s another day. Uh. 

Em: Um, anyway, the main thing people know this house for is that they– people go temporarily insane and then die from fear. 

Christine: [sucks in air] That’s like extremely upsetting to me. 

Em: And the most scary part, of course, is The Thing, The Nameless Thing that– 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: –again is maybe a shadow person, maybe an octopus. We don’t know. Maybe a mist. And– 

Christine: Nobody knows. 

Em: Uh, it– the– This Thing, This Nameless Thing– I’ll end on this. But one paper actually described the Thing as a “vile, phantasmagorical killer from beyond the grave.” 

Christine: [laughs] Oh my god, who’s writing this shit? This is amazing. 

Em: We need to bring back critical reading skills and writing skills immediately. 

Christine: No, for real. Phantasmagorical. Are you kidding me? SAT much? 

Em: Like the fact that someone just threw that out of their brain, but like people these days can’t tell the difference between “there,” “they’re,” “their.” 

Christine: I know. It’s like– I-I’m really impressed a– I’m inspired really. 

Em: [sighs] Well, uh, anyway, that’s The Nameless Thing of Berkeley Square. 

Christine: That’s the– honestly one of my favorites you’ve ever done, I think. 

Em: Really? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Oh my gosh. Thank you. 

Christine: I don’t know why. I didn’t even know it was coming, but something about a Nameless Thing. I actually got quite frightened about it, and people– I mean, that’s, that’s scary. 

Em: Wow. I– 

Christine: And I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it. I feel like this deserves more, uh, attention, you know? 

Em: I– You know, you got to thank the, the cryptids cards. 

Christine: I’m really thanking them. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, and when you said you went to Delaware, I was assuming this, I was assuming this was coming from Delaware, but no– 

Em: No, [chuckles] no. 

Christine: –just the cards were. 

Em: That– You know, I should have done something from fucking Delaware, but– 

Christine: No, I like, I like this. I like this one. This one’s one of my new favorites, I think. 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: Um, yeah, I love it. Yay! Well, I’m really excited ’cause I want to show you my, um, ghost hunting apps that I used in Egypt. And I was just going through them yesterday, and I found like some fun stuff that I had captured– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –at the p– at like different spots. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So I thought during the intermission, I could play those. Um– 

Em: Yeah! 

Christine: –so if you, if you want to hop on Patreon, or I guess you can access it through s– podcast– whatever podcast app you’re on, um, we’re gonna do a little intermission Yappy Hour. Um, but do you want to have a quick pee break before that? 

Em: Yes. Yes. 

Christine: Yay. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors] 

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Christine’s Story – Robert “Bobby” Dunbar & Bruce Anderson 

Christine: All right, everyone. We just had the spookiest conversation with a ghost in my house. And he said, “Come over here.” And we said, “Where?” And he said, “The window.” But if you want to see the rest– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [chuckles] –you can go to our Patreon ’cause I don’t– 

Em: And you can only imagine how the rest went. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. And I cannot ’cause I already forget. Otherwise, I probably would tell you. So anyway, that was really creepy and fun. And I love me some GhostTube. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Okay. Now I’m going to tell you a story, Em. This one is wild. Uh, this is the story of the disappearance of Robert “Bobby” Dunbar. 

Em: Bobby Dunbar. 

Christine: Bobby Dunbar. 

Em: Sounds like a little– like a little kid from the ‘50s. 

Christine: Well, it’s a kid born in 1908. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: But you’re close. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, so he was born May 23, 1908 to Lessie and Percy Dunbar of Opelousas, Louisiana. The Dunbars were a respected middle-class family. Uh, Percy, the dad, worked in real estate and insurance, and they were active in the Methodist church. They had like quite a bit– big community, and within the family, they had two sons. There was Bobby, who’s the eldest. He was four years old, and his younger brother, Alonzo. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: The boys were very close. They played a lot outdoors together. And this is where I tell you that, uh, the context of the family is important because one of the themes of the story is kind of how the media portrayed, uh, these people, um, during a time of like great trauma in their lives, um, and the other people affected. And the way that like the media framed missing children’s stories back then– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –is really alarming and probably, uh, showcases some of the similar issues we have today with like who gets media attention when they go missing and– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –you –that kind of thing. And so we’re gonna get forward here to 1912. Uh, it’s August 23, 1912. The Dunbars are taking a summer trip to Swayze Lake, which is a swampy alligator-filled area in St. Landry Parish, Louisiana. 

Em: Why are we vacationing there? 

Christine: ’Cause we live in Louisiana. I have no idea. 

Em: You know, I would love– You really did just spark something in me, speaking of my ADHD rabbit holes. Um, I can’t wait later to go waste time looking up where people used to vacation in 1912. Like– 

Christine: Isn’t that interesting? 

Em: ’Cause if you didn’t have an amusement park, where would you vacation? Just to like– 

Christine: Well, I’m reading the book, The God of the Woods– or I think it’s called God of the Woods, and, uh, it talks about people– like well-to-do people vacationing in the Adirondacks back in the day. 

Em: Ah! 

Christine: So apparently that was a thing. 

Em: Now, that I understand. I can– [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles] So I’m sure there are those like pockets. But yeah, I guess they were out– And they were just camping, so it wasn’t– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –like they were like on some destination, you know, vacation. But they were– 

Em: I feel like I did– I just told a lot about, about myself when I was like, “What would you possibly have to do out there without an amusement park?” [laughs] 

Christine: Without stimulation? Without like constant stimulation and gift shops everywhere? Yeah. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: Uh– “How– Where would I, where would I get all my pins and stickers?” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: That would be so tragic. 

Em: Like in 1912, I would have so much more money. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, we’d be rich, I know. Because we wouldn’t spend all our money– 

Em: Exactly. 

Christine: –on fucking tchotchkes. Okay, so they’re in this rustic area, very thickly wooded swampland, marshland, um, alligators. On August 23, the adults are preparing lunch, and four-year-old Bobby wanders off from camp. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: Different accounts differ– [sarcastically] Different accounts differ. Accounts di– 

Em: [laughs] Can you believe it? 

Christine: [laughs] Accounts differ slightly, but most say he was playing near the water’s edge with other children when he vanished. When his family realized they were missing, they, of course, panicked. They start searching immediately. They find muddy footprints leading away from the lake, reportedly, toward a nearby railroad trestle, suggesting he may have walked off rather than drowned. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So despite days of searching, they find no sign of poor Bobby. They find not a single piece of clothing– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –no foot-footprints beyond just the railroad trestle, no remains, nothing. Most people at this point were speculating that, of course, alligators or quicksand, which unfortunately are big problems there, had claimed this little boy if he wandered off. But because of the footprints that they found leading to the railroad, some people speculated that, you know, a– somebody passing through may have abducted him. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So over the following week, searchers dragged the lake. They actually used [chuckles] dynamite in the lake to like displace the water and look for remains. 

Em: Feels– I underst– 

Christine: Like 1912. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] I understand, but it also feels a little Wile E. Coyote of like– 

Christine: Oh, big time. They dropped a huge anvil in the middle of the pond. Like what? 

Em: Like and, and, and a big piano too. 

Christine: A big piano fell out of the sky. 

Em: Well, no, ’cause I– You would think like m– What if he’s still alive, and now you’ve just dynamited him, you know? 

Christine: Exactly. And my thought was like, “Well, I guess if you’re trying to displace the water–“ 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: “–he’s probably, you know– It’s probably too late anyhow.” Um, they did find remains, but only of a deer, so not of any human. Um, and so I don’t know if the water like splashed up and then splashed down. I don’t know if you had to like wait for it to fill back up. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] It, it does feel like it should all go, [pitch starting low and getting higher] “whoop,” [pitch starting high and dropping low] “whoop.” 

Christine: [pitch starting low and getting higher] “Whoop,” and then just like splash. Right? Exactly. 

Em: Like not a drop missing, yeah. 

Christine: And almost every fish goes with it and then like lands exactly where it was, you know? 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: Like it feels like a cartoon to dynamite– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –the fucking swampland. But– 

Em: It does. 

Christine: They did that. They did, they did a lot looking for this little kid. They looked in local cabins, outbuildings, anywhere where he may have like wandered to, but they found not a single trace of him. Um, they even actually took his– So he was wearing this straw hat. Um, and they took like the exact same type of straw hat and put it on the water– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –to see if it would sink. Because they were thinking like, “Oh, well, if he had drowned, you know, would this hat have floated?” And the hat floated for hours and hours, and they thought like– that’s kind of when they determined like,“Oh, there’s a chance he wandered away because we probably would have found the hat.” 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um, you know, I don’t know what the case is with an alligator. I, I mean, honestly, I don’t know much about how they attack. Do you? 

Em: That’s a great point. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I totally forgot about the alligators for a second, but that– you know, it’s– It makes you really appreciate the science we have today because they literally had to go on a guess based on whether or not a hat could float. They were like– 

Christine: Yes, I know. I know. 

Em: They’re like, “Maybe he’s walking somewhere now.” 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. It’s kind of crazy. Um, like they were doing all sorts of like– It’s feels very rudimentary like tests, you know? Like– 

Em: It does give me a little less respect for detectives back in the day ’cause I’m like everyone was just guessing shit. You could just guess. 

Christine: Yeah. And also it’s sort of like, “Well, you’re floating a hat around, but like that doesn’t prove anything.” Like if it– 

Em: Yep. But you’re the inspector in town. Like– [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, it’s like if it, if it sinks, okay, but you just– you’re gonna also dynamite the water and not find– Like I just don’t really understand, but I guess it’s a cheap test, if you’re gonna do a test to put a straw hat in the water, I guess. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But it just seems a little bit strange to me as well. Um, the Dunbars, uh, offered a $6,000 reward, which today, uh, just to give you an idea, is– Drum roll please. 

Em: [taps on desk in front of them] 

Christine: $200,397. So– 

Em: Damn. 

Christine: –upfront offered for their child’s safe return. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And this is when newspapers really caught on and started spreading the story. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: The case quickly became very public, uh, very dramatic. It was about– you know, they focused on the parents and their devotion and their, their loss and all the steps they were taking to get their boy back. Reports centered heavily on Lessie’s grief. And you know, they were like writing everything in this fanciful language like, “Oh, she faints over herself, “ you know. 

Em: [chuckles] Right. 

Christine: Like I’m sure they were making it sound extra dramatic. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But they were really like milking the story as far as– not the, not the family, but the, the newspapers, um, about Lessie’s grief, the mother’s grief. Um– 

Em: Well, also I imagine, as a business, they were probably thinking like, “If they’ve got this kind of money, we want to do everything we can to look like we were certainly, you know, helping or trying to get the story out there or something.” 

Christine: But they’re not even that rich. It’s sort of like they had like– They were like middle class folks. I mean, they weren’t like– They were clearly well-off enough to be offering a shit ton of money to the public, but I think like it was more like the all-American angle. Like, “These all-American people–“ 

Em: Got it. Okay. 

Christine: “–they’re just like you, and they’re going through this hor– Can you imagine what this is like?” Which, you know, people, of course, like ate it up, right? Like I mean, any sort of– Like if you think like, um– I mean, any of the cases nowadays where people get fixated and follow, and a lot of them are huge because it’s like people that look like you or you know– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –uh somebody where you think, “I can’t believe this happened to that person.” And that’s kind of the, the angle they run with. So the newspapers start sharing all the information about the family and the boy being missing, and people all over the nation started to get invested. This went on for eight months, and the family lived in this like grief-stricken limbo. Lessie reportedly suffered severe depression. Um, Percy threw himself 100% into his work and searching for his son. And we fast forward those eight months, and we’re in April of 1913. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Authorities in Columbia, Mississippi arrest a man named William Cantwell Walters. He’s a 35-year-old traveling piano tuner. 

Em: Uh– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Yep. M– 

Christine: Other sources listed his occupation as “tinkerer.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. That– It sounds about the same to me as well. But, um– 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: I, I– God, I would give anything to be a tinkerer. 

Christine: I knew you would s– 

Em: Professional tinkerer? 

Christine: I literally was like trying to figure out your exact quote in response to that. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And it was, “[sighs] I wish I were a tinkerer.” Yeah. 

Em: What a dream fucking job. Okay. 

Christine: Yeah. And so that was his, uh, his whole deal. But the reason he was arrested is that he had been moving between towns with a small boy that wasn’t his. 

Em: Okay, got it. 

Christine: And, uh, this small boy, people around town genu– generally like gave it a pass ’cause I guess that’s just what you did back then. But when he was caught publicly whipping the boy– 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: –several “townsfolks”– several townsfolk got together and said, “We got to get this guy looked at.” And they also noticed the similarity, because this was such a sensational story, between the little boy and Bobby Dunbar who was missing. 

Em: Wha– So for decades, men have just had this blind confidence then, huh? They’re like, “Oh, I can steal a kid and whip him publicly, and no one will notice.” 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Are you kidding me? 

Christine: Well, just wait. So locals, of course, looked at this and said, “We got to get him turned in.” They notified authorities, but Walters maintained that the boy was not Bobby Dunbar, but actually Bruce Anderson. They said, “Who’s Bruce Anderson?” He said, “Oh, he’s the ‘illegitimate,’” quote unquote, “son of Julia Anderson, a field hand and former caretaker from North Carolina.” He said, “No, no, no. Julia Anderson told me I could take Bruce, uh, while she looked for work,” and that he was actually returning to her with her son when he was detained. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Now, this is like wild because all of a sudden you have this discovery of this little boy with this dude, uh, this tinkerer/traveling piano tuner, uh, and this woman who’s supposedly the mother of this child, Bruce Anderson, um, who works as a field hand. And so like you immediately see the class disparity of the working-class family that was arrested and accused of like taking this boy and then, you know, the Dunbars who are at home in their Methodist community like grieving publicly. Um, and you– People started to immediately kind of– [sighs] How should I say it? People started to classify them as sort of villain and good guy, you know– 

Em: Sure, sure. 

Christine: –uh just based on kind of their “morality” of their existence and how much money they had– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –and what they did for a living. So Walters, of course, was a working-class man, uh, living on the road, and they immediately made him sound suspicious as hell, although he was traveling with a small boy and whipping him. So I don’t, I don’t think it took much for them to convince anybody– 

Em: [chuckles] Right. 

Christine: –as far as I’m concerned. And then, you know, the more affluent Dunbars were treated as like these trustworthy heroic people. The child was placed in custody, while the Dunbars were contacted that they may have found Bobby, their son. Percy and Lessie, of course, immediately traveled to Mississippi to view the boy. Now, this is where early newspaper reports conflicted because some said the boy ran into his mother’s arms, crying, “Mother!”, while others noted he seemed frightened and confused and even pulled away from her. 

Em: Oh, shit. Okay, two very different stories. 

Christine: We don’t even know. Like, I mean, I hate that about the old reporting. It’s like, “Okay, I get that you want to sell papers, but like fucking tell me what happened, not like what you made up in your head.” 

Em: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Christine: It’s crazy making. Um, the next day, Lessie spent more time with the boy, and she gave him a bath. And he had been like completely filthy, and she gave him a bath, and she said immediately she recognized his moles, his– the scar on his foot, and she apparently shouted, “This is my son!” and fainted, at least according to the sources. Uh– 

Em: Well, you know, differing accounts are different, so. 

Christine: Differing accounts are different– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –as, as a wise person once said. So of course, everybody celebrated. They’re saying, “Oh my god. Uh, the Dunbars finally found their ho– Like a miracle upon miracles.” Um, the boy came home to Opelousas where a parade, banners, and church bells welcomed his return. They had a big parade in the street, and he had to sit on the top of like a car and ride around town. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Um, there was also, of course, this like, uh, social narrative going on, right? That like, “This is justice,” and, um, “These dirty poor people took this little boy from his special family, but now let’s throw him a parade.” 

Em: Right. 

Christine: So they bring him home and upon returning home, they tried to help the boy adjust. Uh, in doing so, they bought him a pony and a bicycle. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] That’s how my mom also handles things. She– 

Christine: I know. I love that. And– 

Em: That’s why I, I love all my tchotchkes now– 

Christine: I know. 

Em: –’cause they feel like love. No, I– 

Christine: It fills your heart. [laughs] 

Em: Truly. It’s like, “Oh, let’s like really like– Let’s give him some calm peace after a really rough time. Here’s a horse!” It’s like– [laughs] 

Christine: “Here’s a pony! Ride it around. You’re four!” 

Em: It’s like, “Back up. Like–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “–I need a nap–“ 

Christine: Please. 

Em: “–and maybe like an apple,” you know? 

Christine: “I need a psychiatrist to please talk to me about what I’ve been going through–“ 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. 

Christine: “–’cause I almost got eaten by an alligator. You blew up a whole swamp to look for me.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I mean, just like the drama here. 

Em: “My mom is passing out when I’m in the bath.” 

Christine: I know. 

Em: “I’m sitting on cars and a big float, and I need– and I have a pony.” 

Christine: Uh! I mean, it feels like a movie. And so they bought him this, uh, pony and bicycle. And I love some of the sources said, “This was viewed as an extravav– extravagant gift for 1913.” I go, “It’s probably less extravagant to give someone a horse back then than it is now.” Like a four-year-old– [laughs] 

Em: Part of, part of me literally was like, “Oh, is that just like his like–“ 

Christine: Like a normal thing? [laughs] 

Em: “‘–He’s a man now. Here’s a horse,’” you know. [laughs] 

Christine: He gets a pony. [laughs] Yeah, but no, apparently like even back then it was a quite an extravagant, um, purchase. So family members later said these gestures helped him settle and, uh, you know, kind of warm him back up to calling Lessie and Percy “Mama” and “Papa.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: These rewards and the affection and stability they represented may have strengthened his identity as Bobby Dunbar. And later historians have pointed to this as an example of how like social reinforcement and comfort can shape a child’s sense of self. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So after the Dunbars brought the boy home, newspapers nationwide celebrated the return. They praised the perseverance of his parents, and the tone toward Julie Anderson, unfortunately, was scathing and dismissive from the start. And this was the woman who claimed that, um– This was the woman that this, this traveling tinkerer claimed was the actual mother of the boy he was with. 

Em: I see. Okay. 

Christine: So Julia Anderson, the, the farm ha– or the field hand, she learned about the Bobby Dunbar discovery through press reports in Mississippi and Louisiana. She immediately recognized details matching her missing son, Bruce. 

Em: Fuck. 

Christine: This was a boy she had entrusted to one William Cantwell Walters, a piano tuner/tinkerer she knew through her employer’s family. 

Em: Okay, so she is like confirming his alibi, this guy, where he’s like– 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Julia told reporters she had allowed Walters to take Bruce with him for a short trip so the child could see parts of the region and that Walters had written her once or twice afterward. When months passed without further contact, she assumed he had returned to Mississippi with the boy and was waiting to see him again, not realizing the pair were being sought for kidnapping. When she saw the news of Walter’s arrest, she stated plainly, “That boy is mine. I let Mr. Walters take him because he was fond of him, and I knew he would treat him kindly.” Clearly, that didn’t happen, but– 

Em: He’s whipping him publicly. 

Christine: Yeah. With little money, Julia accepted financial help from a newspaper who paid for her to travel to Opelousas, Louisiana to see the child. Upon arrival, um, she faced an immediate disadvantage. Uh, here’s why. Reporters described her as a, quote, “plain woman, ignorant, and unrefined.” Someone actually called her like a b– a, a big burly woman or– just like really like unnecessary commentary. 

Em: Oh my god. It’s just like, “She’s not much to write home about.” [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah. Like, “She’s a rough one, you know?” I mean, it’s like, “Okay, she works in a fucking field. I’d like you– to see you do that.” 

Em: Right, right, right. 

Christine: The local authorities to kind of test her brought her five small boys, and she was meant to pick which one was her son. This is already like so traumatic. 

Em: What a weird little guessing game. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: It’s like she’s gonna know which one’s her fucking kid. 

Christine: So here’s the thing though. She hadn’t seen him in a long time, right? ’Cause he’s been traveling around with this other man. And she had not seen him in nearly a year. And this was– uh, her son was four. So this was like a three-year-old to a four-year-old. And the boys were all roughly the same age and roughly looked alike. So everyone’s watching her, putting this pressure on her. She’s completely overwhelmed, and she reportedly said, “I can’t be sure right now. It’s been so long.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Now, this hesitation, of course, people immediately jumped on. It was portrayed as proof that she was lying or was delusional. And the next day, after she was able to spend time with the boy privately, she felt this flood of relief and said, “Okay, it is my son, Bruce. I’ve found him.” She insisted to the court and to reporters that the child recognized her and that he had a small birthmark on his neck that she could identify. But despite her insistence, the public had already turned on her, and the press instead framed her as morally suspect, emphasizing that she was unmarried, uh, had had multiple– 

Em: Uh, that’s why? 

Christine: Oh, yeah. –multiple children, and they basically contrasted her with the respectable church-going Lessie Dunbar– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: –and said, “Well, who do you think should be the mother of this boy?” 

Em: I thought you were gonna say that they had already turned on her because of the fair argument to me that like, “You haven’t seen your kid in a year, and that’s all it takes for you to not know what your fucking kid looks like?” 

Christine: Okay, but remember, Lessie said she didn’t know un-until she gave him a bath. 

Em: That’s true. Both of them needed a second, so– Yeah. 

Christine: You know, ’cause she also said like she wasn’t sure and then gave him a bath and said like, “Oh, wow. It is him,” you know, so. 

Em: I still– I expected that to be a reason before, “Well, she’s unmarried and has other kids.” It’s like what? That doesn’t make any fucking sense. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. No, it has nothing to do with that. Not nothing, but it definitely wasn’t, um, wasn’t part of that. I also– I’m so mad at myself. I meant to mention this earlier, and it– it’s not gonna come up again, and I can’t find a place to put it, so I’m gonna say it now. 

Em: [chuckles] Okay. 

Christine: But remember when I was said they were like doing all this crazy shit to search for the boy? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: I completely forgot to mention that they started killing alligators and cutting them open to check. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: I, I meant to mention that with the whole hat thing. They were literally cutting open alligators to see if an alligator had eaten this little boy. Just side note. 

Em: Again, insanity today, but in 1912 like– 

Christine: That’s like some fucking swamp– Uh, what do you call it? Like vigilante shit, you know? 

Em: That’s some weird Duck Dynasty something. 

Christine: Yes! Yes, yes. 

Em: Well, it’s also like there are more than– 

Christine: Like bounty hunter. 

Em: There’s more than like ten alligators. Like now you’re just killing for no re– Like I mean, good luck. You– You’re gonna find the exact alligator that maybe killed a kid? 

Christine: It’s for sure an excuse to hunt for alligators, right? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like– I don’t know. 

Em: I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Christine: It’s just wild. It’s just wild. 

Em: [laughs] Let’s just say Robert Irwin is pissed. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s not nice. Okay? Yeah, Robert Irwin would not be pleased. So let me go back down because I just remembered that that– I never mentioned it– 

Em: No, thank you. 

Christine: –and I had a devastating realization– moment of realization. Okay. So they say, you know, she’s, um, unmarried and has multiple children with multiple people. Therefore, she cannot be trusted, um– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and should not be acknowledged or listened to. So and, um, just as an example, uh, because, you know, she was so morally suspect– I watched a BuzzFeed Unsolved– If this sounds, sounds familiar to anyone, um, it was a BuzzFeed Unsolved video, um, seven years ago, and [chuckles] they put the– like a, like a quote from an article, a newspaper article back then in New Orleans. Here it is– about, uh, Julia Anderson. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: “She had not seen her son since February of 1912. She had forgotten him. Animals don’t forget, but this big, coarse country woman, several times a mother – she forgot.” 

Em: Shut the fuck up. That’s insane. 

Christine: Are you kidding me? 

Em: Saying that she’s– that, that a random animal is better than her. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “A coarse country–“ What’d you call it? What was it? 

Christine: “This big, coarse country woman–“ 

Em: [laughs] What the fuck? 

Christine: “–several times a mother–“ Like fuck you. 

Em: [laughs] Sometimes I forget how fucking– 

Christine: Fuck you, thank you. 

Em: –cruel and evil people are to people. 

Christine: People are nasty, dude. 

Em: It’s moments– You know, I– You know, again, another thing to have gratitude for is like s– very fucking slowly but surely pretty privilege is becoming recognized. Um– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: But wow, like the– to just know back then like, “Well, if you weren’t married, you’re fucking Quasimodo over here.” 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: Like you’re just “disgust-o.” Yuck. Oh my god. 

Christine: “You’re, you’re a, you’re a giant piece of trash, and you don’t deserve your own child back. Yeah.” 

Em: “Just ’cause I don’t like how plain you look. Um, I’m pretty sure–“ 

Christine: “Can’t you get h– Can’t you smile and be hot like that other lady?” I mean, Jesus. 

Em: “I like looking at cows more than you.” Like– [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So– 

Christine: “And they’re better mothers than you anyway.” What? 

Em: [laughs] That’s so fucking evil. 

Christine: It’s just absolutely– 

Em: That’s so fucking evil. I like– 

Christine: It’s evil. 

Em: Oh my god. I can’t imagine. 

Christine: Like have some fucking humanity. Have like a shred of respect, you piece of shit. Like what is wrong with you? 

Em: I can’t– And you know some plain ass man was writing it too. 

Christine: Like would your mother approve this co– Like would you literally feel good about– I mean, I guess, ’cause you’re just fucking blatantly saying it and putting your name on it. 

Em: I think they were just used to it. Like I don’t even know if it– 

Christine: I think people just like this kind of conversation. They’re like, “Oh, yep.” 

Em: I think– I mean, I know like it was certainly like an insult at the time. Like it would still like– It still hurt her feelings– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –but like I think because we are so far removed from that being okay at this point– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –I feel like it’s more jarring to us– 

Christine: It’s shocking, right. 

Em: –than it probably even was to her, you know. 

Christine: Like she’s probably like, “Of course, that’s how it’s gonna go,” you know. 

Em: It’s like, “Yep, there I am.” 

Christine: Like, “That’s how people treat me.” Right. 

Em: “I’m a country animal,” or some shit like that. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, “I’m sure that’s how you’re all gonna talk about me.” 

Em: I– 

Christine: Ugh. 

Em: Did you, did you ever, um– Did you ever get the, the quote said to you from your mother? [chuckles] 

Christine: Probably. [chuckles] 

Em: Uh, “Boys don’t make passes at girls who wear glasses.” Did you ever– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: That was such a– 

Christine: I mean, she didn’t say that ’cause she didn’t know idioms, but she basically said some other things that were along those lines. 

Em: It was said, uh, and I remember thinking like– I knew I had– 

Christine: “Good.” [laughs] 

Em: I knew– Yeah. First of all, “Thank god. I’ll keep wearing them.” Um, s– 

Christine: Yep. “Get me two pairs.” 

Em: [laughs] Second of all, I, I should have known there was a, a feminist bone in my body from day one because as soon as she said that, I went, “That feels fucked up, and you not even noticing is weird to me.” 

Christine: Yeah, that’s extremely not cool. Yeah. 

Em: So I say all that to think like– I wonder if they even noticed that saying things like that was so out of control stupid. 

Christine: Or if it was just like, “Oh, but she is, so why not report the news?” 

Em: [chuckles] Right. 

Christine: And it’s like, “Well, no. Yeah, that’s not– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: That’s– Yeah, okay. 

Em: Crazy. 

Christine: C-crazy really. Um, so this clash now between these two women, which has become almost like a culture, uh, culture clash. One was wealthy, married, socially accepted– or wealthy, you know, adjacent, like well-to-do, married, and socially accepted; the other was poor, unmarried, working class. This became a reflection of like gender hierarchy, class hierarchy, um, rather than like whose child is this actually. So Julia returned to Mississippi, devastated after the court ruled that the boy would stay in Opelousas, uh, as Bobby Dunbar. She later said, quote, “I knew in my heart that boy was mine, but I was just a poor working woman. I had no lawyer, no money, and nobody would listen.” 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: I mean, it’s like a nightmare, like a real life nightmare. 

Em: So she just had to like– 

Christine: Go home. 

Em: –in her and, uh– I’m assuming this– Is this actually her kid? Do we know that for sure? Or we just still– we’ll never know? 

Christine: I know, but you– Well, I don’t know actually, but≠ 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –we get some more clarity later. 

Em: Well, I mean, I just I can’t– The fact that currently the story is ending with– 

Christine: Like if she’s believing this is her child and she has to go home empty-handed– 

Em: She has to give her kid, kid up and just– 

Christine: –and give it to a different family. Yeah. 

Em: And just be like, “I hope that they treat him better than I could–“ 

Christine: She act– She– 

Em: “–’cause I’m a big fat fucking cow or whatever.” 

Christine: Yeah, I guess so, right? Like they all told it. 

Em: “And I probably wear glasses.” I don’t know. 

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles] It– She ended up essentially passing this story along. She– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: She later had more children. She– I’ll tell you in a moment, but she basically maintained her entire life that that was her son. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So Walter’s trial, the guy who– the tinkerer– his trial the following year offered her a brief chance to testify again. And when she did, she testified that this was her child. She gave this child to this guy to take on a trip or whatever so he could like see a little of the world. Um, she’d never given up– him up permanently. Walters had taken him with her permission and was bringing him back. Several witnesses corroborated seeing Walters and the boy together long before Bobby Dunbar even disappeared– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –but the court said, “Mm, we actually like the other narrative better, and it sounds better, so we’re gonna go with that.” 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: After Walter’s conviction, which was later overturned, Julia settled in Poplarville, Mississippi. She married. She raised additional children, but she continued for the rest of her life to tell family members that her son, Bruce, had been taken, kidnapped, and renamed. And her descendants would pass that belief down for generations. So for generations, she said, “Someone kidnapped my son and took him.” 

Em: And I– You must have already said this, and I’m just blanking or I didn’t hear it or something, but has no one just asked this kid, “Which one’s your mom?” 

Christine: So he was just in shock, I think, and being four, I think he was so overwhelmed when these– You know, he’d been away from– If it was– If he was Bobby Dunbar, he’d been abducted– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and taken on this like crazy you know– and this person is physically abusing him. And like, you know, four sounds like a kid, but like Leona’s four, and I’m like, “I don’t think she would–“ I mean, she would recognize me, I assume, but like there’s just an element of like I think they bombarded this kid with this like– And some people argue, “Well, this one family’s giving him a pony and a bicycle–“ 

Em: Right, right. 

Christine: “–and saying like, ‘I’m your Mom. Call me Mom.’” And like I’m not saying, “Oh, this kid said, ‘I want another bike. I’m gonna stay here.’” But like think about if you had been traveling for a year with a man who whipped you and did god knows what else– 

Em: Yeah, and now you feel safe. 

Christine: And now you’re at least with someone who loves you and calls you her son, you know, like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And then probably the confusion of like seeing if that was his real mom, you know. I mean, so that’s kind of where– He was kind of just in shocked silence as far as the newspapers said like– 

Em: And we’re also forgetting that somebody’s missing their fucking kid. 

Christine: Correct, correct. 

Em: Like there’s still a missing kid out there. 

Christine: But now that they’ve decided it’s not the Dunbars’s, nobody really cares, you know? 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Yeah. So [sighs] the boy raised as Bobby Dunbar grew up believing he was a Dunbar son. He married, had children, lived out his life in Louisiana, and died in 1966. Family members described him as gentle but reserved, and some recalled a lingering sense that something wasn’t right about the story of his big return home to Opelousas. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Julia Anderson, meanwhile, living in Mississippi, often spoke of her lost child, Bruce, and maintained her belief that he had been wrongly taken from her. Um, it became part of her family’s history to this day. Uh, and this case has lingered in local memory as both a miracle and a tragedy. Um, like you said, either way it’s devastating. Somebody lost their child one way or another. And now we fast forward to the year 2004. So in 2004, Bobby Dunbar’s granddaughter, Margaret Dunbar Cutright, decided she wanted to dig into her family’s history. 

[Em nods excitedly] 

Christine: [chuckles] And although some people in the family were a little opposed to it, saying things like, “Well, what good would it do? Let’s leave it in the past.” I’m like, “Fuck, no.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “Find out the truth and like deal with it, you know, either way.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “If it’s tragic, it’s tra– you know, just come on, let’s, let’s find out the truth.” And I, I have zero chill for that kind of thing. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So that– I would have– give that caveat, but so she decided to– She found a scrapbook, and it had all these like crazy, uh, pictures and cutouts and things, and she started piecing everything together. I mean, you and I know like the, the sick like hold this could take over you. 

Em: Yeah. Oh, yeah. 

Christine: And so she starts digging and of course is immediately drawn to finding out this story. And when it’s presented to her, “Hey, how about you do a DNA test?” she says, “Let’s do it.” So she agre– Or so she gets Bobby’s younger brother, Alonzo, to agree to a DNA test to see if it matches. Uh, and they got, um, Bobby Dunbar’s son to give the other sample to see if they were brothers, if they had been related. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: The results prove definitively that the boy raised as Bobby Dunbar was not an iota biologically related to the Dunbar family. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: Not a one. 

Em: And meanwhile, Julia’s over there going, “Could have told you that.” 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: “Could have told you– Been over here telling you that this whole time.” 

Christine: Yep. The discovery validated Julia Anderson’s claim nearly a century later– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –and forced both families to reexamine their histories. For the Dunbars, of course, it meant acknowledging that their grief may have led them to kind of accept this alternate identity, this mistaken identity, and, and just cling to it. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And for the Andersons, it was some vindication and closure, but also confirmation that like, “Yes, we were right to have believed that our son was taken–“ 

Em: Yeah. Also– 

Christine: “–or our ancestor was taken.” 

Em: Yeah, I was gonna say in the, in the grand scheme of like a butterfly effect, like your whole family line– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –is where it is today because someone got taken. 

Christine: I mean, you even heard the granddaughter– Yeah, you even heard the granddaughter, her middle name’s still Dunbar, right? Like it’s clearly part of the family. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But also I want to say too like they’ve never– I want to be clear they’ve never tested the Anderson’s DNA– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –with his. So you know, I can’t definitively say, “Oh, this is Bruce Anderso– He was Bruce Anderson this whole time.” Although that’s kind of what people have gleaned from the story. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But at the very least, it was certainly not actually Bobby Dunbar. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: And when Bobby Dunbar’s son talked about like, “Oh, I would ask my dad like about his disappearance and stuff and what it was like,” um, and apparently once he seemed to recall another little boy being with him– 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: –and dying. 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: Like that he was with this other little boy and that tinkerer guy, and he said the other kid died. And some people think like maybe this is how he fell into this role to begin with– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –that he was like, “I guess I’m Bobby Dunbar now.” Like this traumatic event and, you know, leads up to this new family. And when Bobby Dunbar’s son asked him once – they were out fishing or something – uh, like, “Hey, are you really Bobby Dunbar? Do you know? Do you have any questions about it?” He said, “I know who I am, and I know who you are, and nothing else makes a difference.” And his son was like, “‘kay. [chuckles] That–“ 

Em: “Hey, the whole world wants to know like what’s going on here.” 

Christine: Yeah. “Okay, okay, sure, sure, sure. I hear you. 

Em: Which like if he knew or like– 

Christine: I don’t think he ne-necessarily knew. I feel like maybe it was something deep down where he just felt like– 

Em: Something was off? 

Christine: Yeah, maybe. ’Cause I mean four is so little. I barely remember that age, you know? And like if you had been convinced into something– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and then just told your whole life that it was true, I feel like you would have a hard time like differentiating truth and fiction a little bit. 

Em: I can totally understand that as like a human to human, but at the same time, that’s the most fucking dad answer when there’s a massive mystery– 

Christine: No, you’re right. 

Em: –that you may or may not have the information on, and you just give us a vague little token. 

Christine: But I love that– 

Em: And I’m like, “Fuck, tell me.” 

Christine: But I love that that was the dad– So that was a grandpa and his son, and then the daughter was born and was like, “Fuck that. I’m finding out. Give me your DNA.” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: And I was like, “That, that makes me so happy.” 

Em: Women in STEM. She’s like, “For science.” 

Christine: Women in STEM in their living rooms on the computer. 

Em: Oh my gosh. 

Christine: Uh, yeah. So it’s really, really wild. Um, not a genetic match at all. Not b-biologically related at all. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, so today, historians and journalists interpret this case as a study in collective belief, collective denial, like wanting to believe a narrative, wanting to believe a story ’cause it just feels better. It sounds better to your own mind. Um, and they didn’t want to admit to themselves that like maybe they were taking a child from an actual mother, you know, so they dehumanized her, made her less than an animal. It’s just like all very obvious with hindsight, but still, it’s kind of, you know, shocking still. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So the community, they wanted this parade, this happy ending. Um, they wanted the grieving family to have closure. The family, of course, wanted that– their son back, and the society was– and media was predisposed to trust privilege, you know, over poverty. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And so yeah, you see that, and like even how– We talked a lot about this, but like how affection, environment can shape your identity, the fact that Bobby was basically like cornered into being Bobby, whether he liked it or not. Um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And obviously, he had a ha– I mean, not obviously, but according to sources, he had a very happy and chill fulfilling life. Um, but at the same time, it’s just like amazing how he just stepped into a new life, a new family– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and you know, didn’t even know. Uh– 

Em: Wow, what a– 

Christine: Really wild. Really wild. 

Em: It’s– 

Christine: So– And we still don’t know what happened to actual Bobby Dunbar, which is also so crazy. I mean, like we don’t know. 

Em: It’s two missing cases in one, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Wow. And, uh, very rarely do you tell a mystery where even the main character doesn’t know what’s [chuckles] going on. 

Christine: Yes, good point. Hey, that’s a really good point, Em. I don’t know if I’ve ever told one like that where it’s like– 

Em: No. Like it seems like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I would argue I think every person in this– It doesn’t have an answer. Like usually– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –at least somebody’s hiding something, and maybe in this story, maybe someone’s hiding something. But it sounds like everyone was equally confused and just wanted to figure it out. 

Christine: Yeah, it sounds like everyone was desperate for their own truth to be true, right? Like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Ugh, it’s terrible. Um, but yeah, so that’s, that’s my story for the day. 

Em: Wow, it’s a great story. I mean, it’s a bad story, but it’s– 

Christine: Well, thanks. [chuckles] 

Em: But, you know, you’ve told it well. 

Christine: I appreciate it. 

Em: Alright. Well, is it still snowing outside? 

Christine: Um, it’s not snowing, but there’s a nice little layer of snow on the ground and on the trees. And uh, I have to pack for Hawaii, so I have to dig out some– 

Em: Dresses? 

Christine: –shorts? Yeah, I don’t know. [laughs] Like I don’t even know what to wear. 

Em: Are you, are you gonna go like swimming and stuff? Like is this a whole week where you’re doing all wedding stuff? Or are you getting like days to have a vacay? 

Christine: So I get to see my friend, Gina, on Wednesday. She– I met her in Hawaii. I’m really excited. And she lives there. Um, and then I get to– The wedding is on Thursday, and there’s a rum safari; and then on Friday, there’s a luau; and then on Saturday, there’s like a tubing, like a lazy river style tubing. 

Em: Cool. Very cool. 

Christine: It’ll be really fun. I’m excited. 

Em: Well, good luck. I– Good luck with your wallet, by the way, because the tchotchkes would be insane for me. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. Well, don’t worry. My sticker book will be double the size. 

Em: I’m telling you, now that you know– I’m telling you nothing has given me more peace than a fucking sticker book recently that you– It will change you, and now that you know that, you have justification to go buy more stickers. 

Christine: Yeah. And honestly, that is all I needed. I needed one little justification, and thank you for giving it to me. 

Em: You are welcome. Uh, alright. Well, see everybody next week when you’re back from Hawaii and can give us an update on that rum safari. 

Christine: [singing] ♪ I’ll be so tan and filled with rum ♪♪ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

---