E459 Radioactive Acorns and Chicken Tricks

TOPICS: THE KECKSBURG INCIDENT AKA PENNSYLVANIA’S ROSWELL, LAWRENCE JOSEPH BADER AKA JOHN “FRITZ” JOHNSON

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PASS the cran… berry? Because it’s Episode 459 and we’re remixing the Thanksgiving song this year. This week Em covers the Kecksburg Incident aka Pennsylvania’s Roswell, a classic UFO story. Then Christine covers the fascinating case of Lawrence Joseph Bader aka John “Fritz” Johnson. And who can settle the debate about what end of the acorn is the tushy? Happy Thanksgiving week! …and that’s why we drink!

Photo Links:
The Kecksburg UFO replica
Closeup of UFO replica symbols
Lawrence Joseph Bader

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Transcript

[intro music]

Em: [speak-singing] ♪ Pass– 

Christine: [speak-singing] ♪ –the– 

Em: –cran– ♪♪ 

Christine: [talking while laughing] I’m sorry. 

Em: Wait, are we doing it by syllable or word? I forget. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] That would mean I say, “berr–“ and then you say “ee.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] So you don’t want to try that is what I’m hearing. Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: [coughs, laughing] Cranberry. Oh my god. Wait, we should try that after the normal version. We should try the remix. 

Em: [laughs] Okay. Okay. [speak-singing] ♪ Pass– ♪♪ 

Christine: That’s insane. [coughs, laughing] Sorry, you really caught me off guard. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I was like, “berr–“ 

Em: [laughs] Okay. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: [speak-singing] ♪ Pass– 

Christine: [speak-singing] ♪ –the– 

Em: –cranberry– 

Christine: –sauce / 

Em: We’re– 

Christine: –having– 

Em: –mashed– 

Christine: –potatoes / 

Em: Ooh– 

Christine: –the– 

Em: –turkey– 

Christine: –looks– 

Em: –great / 

Christine: Thank– 

Em: –you– 

Christine: –for– 

Em: –loving– 

Christine: –me / 

Em: Thank– 

Christine: –you– 

Em: –for– 

Christine: –being– 

Em: –there / 

Christine: Everyone’s– 

Em: –havin’– 

Christine: –thankin’– 

Em: –thankin’– 

Christine: –the– [laughs] 

Em: Everyone’s thankin’– ♪♪ [laughs] 

Christine: –the– ♪♪ 

Em: [confused squeak] Hm? 

[Em and Christine both break down in laughter.] 

Em: You know we have– 

Christine: Usually I’m the one who gets in trouble for forgetting this. 

Em: ♪ Everyone’s thankin’– 

Christine: ♪ –the whole world’s thankin’– 

Em: –you– 

Christine: –you– 

Em: –for thanking us thankin’ you / Kill the turkey ♪♪ 

Christine: Kill the turkey ♪♪ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Wow. 

Christine: Now let’s do it syllable by syllable. 

[Em and Christine both break down in laughter.] 

Em: You know– [laughs] 

Christine: I think we’re ready. 

Em: Halfway through I thought, “I’m so impressed that I didn’t even have to prepare and practice this song.” 

Christine: Incredible. Incredible. 

Em: Every– 

Christine: Um, you got pretty far. 

Em: What is it? [speak-singing] ♪ Everyone’s thanking you / for thanking us / for thanking you. ♪♪ Right? 

Christine: [speak-singing] ♪ Everyone’s thankin’ / the whole world’s thankin’ you ♪ 

Em: I forgot about that. 

Christine: [nasal voice] ♪ –for thanking us / for thanking you. ♪♪ 

Em: [nasal voice] Kill the turkey. 

Christine: “Lin.” I love that. “Lin, Lin.” 

Em: [laughs] We should start– We should add “Lin” to the end of it too. 

Christine: You should just be doing “Lin” the whole time. Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] That was, uh, at least a creati– Listen, last year or the year before, we forgot. So listen. 

Em: So I hope that was twice as good for everybody. 

Christine: Take it or leave it, people. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You either get this or you get nothing. Um– 

Em: We’ll try again um– 

Christine: Next year. 

Em: –next week. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: No, next week. Because this is the– 

Christine: [laughs] Oh. 

Em: –beginning of the Thanksgiving bookend. 

Christine: Ohh. Oh, ’cause it’s in the middle, right? 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Sure, sure, sure, sure. 

Em: Yeah. So we can have– 

Christine: So the next– Okay. Yeah, next time it’ll be fucking flawless. This was just the dress rehearsal. 

Em: [laughs] Syllable by syllable, it’ll be out of control next year– next week. 

Christine: Oh, I can’t wait. I can’t wait. Um, yeah. Wow, that was beautiful. Um, are you at home? Yes, you are. I just looked at your background. [laughs] 

Em: I am. I am. 

Christine: No beautiful, uh, hotel art today, unfortunately, no. 

Em: Not today, no. Luckily, uh, luckily, I finally get to be here for a second. But, um, yeah, everything’s, uh, going all right over here, I guess. Although – I’m gonna just jump in – the reason I drink right now– is because– 

Christine: Please. 

Em: –our AC is– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Our, our heat is broken. 

Christine: Oh, you have heat? 

Em: And it– 

Christine: Remember when I lived in a house that only had heat in LA and not AC? 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: And it was really like so backwards? 

Em: A crime. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: [laughs] Well– 

Christine: Well, you had to live there too half of your life because of the recording. 

Em: That was incredible. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: It was a breathtaking time. 

Christine: It was. 

Em: Well, the– Usually, I never even use the heat, but of course this was the one week where it’s been frigid and storming the whole time. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: And it’s been like– Yesterday, it got down to like 50 I think, which for us is, you know, winter. 

Christine: It’s chilly. 

Em: And, um, it’s just the one time I need the heat, and it’s been like at max 65 degrees in here. And so I’ve just been cold, cold, cold. So um, until the HVAC people get here, I just bought like a space heater and my place is small enough that like– 

Christine: Oh my god. Are they put– 

Em: –a space heater can fi– be li– fix it. 

Christine: Oh, wait. Is the heat broken or is the heat just non-existent? Like is there heat or–? 

Em: No, it, it is existent, but it is broken. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: Sorry. 

Christine: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. 

Em: But so I got a space heater to keep the house warm– 

Christine: I just picture you and Hank huddled under a shared blanket next to the– 

Em: We both slept on the couch last night together next to the space heater. 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: Um, but the space heater worked well, and now it’s too fucking hot, but I don’t want to like let the cold air in ’cause then I don’t know how long it’ll take to like re– to re-neutralize the room. 

Christine: Oh my. 

Em: So I’m kind of a little sweaty. Um, and I– 

Christine: Can you like turn it off? 

Em: I did turn it off. Um– 

Christine: Oh, okay. I was like– [laughs] 

Em: But it’s just– I’m kind of waiting for the, the cold to seep back in, and then I’ll be too cold and then I’ll have to wait forever for the heat to fix it. It’s just a, a, a dance I’m doing over here all by myself, so. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, it’s too bad we can’t be coldblooded like those iguanas or whatever. 

Em: You’re telling me. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, why do you drink this week? 

Christine: Hey, have you ever seen about those iguanas that fall out of trees? [chuckles] 

Em: Did one hit you in the head? 

Christine: No. Um– 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Although that would explain a lot, but have you heard about that? 

Em: No. I thought that was your entry into why you drink this week. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh! No, but that is a great question. I wish I could say yes, but no, apparently in Florida, when it gets too cold, these – I think they’re iguanas – will like freeze and– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –not freeze like– but their, their body ’cause they’re cold-blooded [chuckles], and they’ll fall out of a tree. And people will like pick them up, and they’re like stunned, and so they think– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –they’re dead, and then they bring them into their house for some reason. I mean, I say that judgmentally as if I wouldn’t do the exact same thing– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and then they come alive in the warmth. 

Em: Those things are also fucking huge. They’re the s– 

Christine: They’re huge! 

Em: They’re the size of like in my mind like what an alligator size is the size of. 

Christine: They’re like a Gio size in my head. 

Em: Yeah. Like a baby alligator. 

Christine: [chuckles] Crazy. 

Em: Yeah, it– They’re huge. I can’t be– 

Christine: But imagine just like thudding out of the trees. I mean, that’s like a nightmare. 

Em: [sighs] If some– 

Christine: Florida’s insane. 

Em: If one of those fell and hit you in the head, you could die, for sure. Um– 

Christine: I mean, really, I shouldn’t even joke about it. You’re right. It’s probably dangerous. 

Em: Someone has, I guess. Um– 

Christine: “Florida man killed when iguana falls–“ Yeah, exactly. Like– [sucks in air through teeth] 

Em: Oy-yoy-yoy. Well– 

Christine: Anyway. 

Em: –um, my– Before I ask you, I was gonna say the good reason I drank up and– the reason I drank up until five minutes ago when I was way too fucking hot was gonna be because it finally rained and I had my moment. It’s been like– 

Christine: Hey! 

Em: I got to have my stormy little cup of tea next to the window and watch the rain um– 

Christine: And shiver frigidly. 

Em: –and wear my c– wear my cozy clothes finally. Um, anyway, that was what I was gonna say. But what I really want to get to is like can you– How, how was your trip? Have I seen you since your trip? 

Christine: Oh, Hawaii? It was great. I’m like, “What trip?” Uh, yes, it was lovely. I– My friend got married. It was awesome. Um, we went on a rum safari. 

Em: Oh, yeah, I did see you. You did say rum safari last time. 

Christine: Yeah, it was– Well, I talk about it a lot ’cause I think it’s just the coolest thing to do at a wedding, and then I– we got to throw tortillas at the pigs. Um– 

Em: Nope. You– We didn’t talk about this. What now? 

Christine: Yeah. So there was a rum safari in the jungle, and then we got to throw tortillas at the pigs ’cause that’s– 

Em: Do they like that? 

Christine: They loved it. They loved the stuff, and then we got to pet a horse. It was just like a really magical– And then, um, you know, my friend got married to her, her– the love of her life, and it was so beautiful. I cried the entire time, which usually– 

Em: Did you? 

Christine: Yeah, I’ve like not been a huge crier lately, but weddings, man. They get me every time, especially a gay wedding. I’m like, [mock sobbing] “I love it!” And then I said– 

Em: Well, especially– 

Christine: –”I love love,” and they were like, “You’re not allowed to say that. Anything but that.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I was like– 

Em: Did you just wear a big rainbow dress to show your solidarity? 

Christine: I really– I was like, “I’m at a gay wedding. I love love.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, yeah, it was great. 

Em: It– Did you um– What was I gonna say? Uh– Oh my gosh, what’s wrong with me? Where in Hawaii did you go? 

Christine: Uh, Kauaʻi. Oh, and I saw my friend Gina, and she’s such a kook. She’s so funny. She made me– Oh, well, shit. I forgot it. I’ll show– Oh! [gasps] Can we do– Okay, this is– I swear we don’t script this. Sometimes people get annoyed, but I’m serious. I want to show for our intermission the gift that Gina gave me, which is this like– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –wild resin graveyard situation– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: –with live animals in it that are no longer alive. It’s– 

Em: Iguanas? [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] She, she made a plaster cast. She put resin all over an iguana, and then it came back alive. No. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, no, she made me this– She’s like– She’s just such a funny character. She’s a character. You know when you just know someone and you’re like, “Wow.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “You’re, you’re just fascinating.” And, um, I met her in Egypt, and then– 

Em: I see, okay. 

Christine: Sorry, I forgot to add that. And then she’s like, “Oh, I live on Kauaʻi.” And I was like, “Hang on a minute. I’m going there in November.” So we hung out for lunch, and, uh, she showed me her uh– like she built her own bed. Like this is the kind of like– 

Em: So cool. 

Christine: Yeah. It’s just wild. She’s just wild. And so she does, uh, stained glass, and she also does resin work. And she’s also a chocolatier. She went to culinary school. 

Em: That’s all you had to say. 

Christine: I know. And I should have led with that. And, uh, she’s just so funny. So we hung out, and she made me this like crazy light up crystal graveyard thing. So I’m– And it has dead animals. Well, dead insects in it. It’s so scary. I’m going to show it to you in the, in the Yappy Hour. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Um, but so it was great. It was a great trip. It was very– Oh, and then I showed– Oh, and then she, she dropped me off in a yellow convertible at the welcome dinner, and my friend was like, “Was that your Uber?” And I was like, “Oh, no, that’s my friend, Gina.” And she’s like, “Your friend, Gina?” And I was like, “Oh, yeah. I forgot to tell you.” This is like the bride. She’s like, “Where were you?” I was like, “Oh, my friend, Gina, and I were hanging out. Here’s the s– Here’s the skull–“ 

Em: “Here’s my dead bugs that I got though.” 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. “Here’s the skull she gave me.” I’m like– [chuckles] Anyway, it was like a very goofy but fun time. Thank you for asking. 

Em: Oh, I was going to say, uh– I just remembered. One of the reasons I, I imagine you were crying is ’cause it was like a childhood friend getting married, too, right? So– 

Christine: It was, yes, yes. 

Em: –how long have you known her? 

Christine: Ever since first grade when I put her– when I bullied her because– Well, actually, that’s– Okay. This is why I drink ’cause this got brought up 70,000 times at the wedding. 

Em: 70,001. [laughs] 

Christine: Here it comes. Um, when we were in first grade– Now, I don’t remember this– And this is actually quite an admission, and I feel like if my therapist ever listens to an episode, this is the one she should listen to ’cause it really does crack open like a whole other side of myself that I’ve never explored. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [chuckles] Uh, the year was 1997. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: It just occurred to me at the wedding as people were telling the story, that was also the year my parents got divorced, so let’s write that down. 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: And I was clearly having a moment. 

Em: Okay. Well. 

Christine: Okay? I was going through it. I didn’t even barely speak English. I had a pretty thick accent. 

Em: Sure, with this again, the fucking English. Okay. 

Christine: [laughs] I know. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Listen, it’s important context. And I’m, I’m sitting there with my little accent. I don’t really know anyone. I’m just always observing, right? I’m like always just, you know, hypervigilant. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And for some reason– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –one afternoon, everyone goes to recess, and I hide in the coat room. And then everyone goes out to recess, and I stay behind, and I switch everyone’s backpacks. We all had like name tags on our cubbies, and I switched everybody’s backpack in the entire grade, and there’s like 65 kids. I take Alyssa Evans’s backpack, and I think to myself, “This girl, she had it coming.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I walk into the boys’s bathroom, and I– 

Em: Had she done anything where she really deserved it to be coming? 

Christine: She did. She would brag about how tall she was all the time [chuckles]. And I– 

Em: “You bitch.” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I was like, “Get the fuck out of here with this. You’re not special.” By the way, it’s very funny ’cause now she’s like 5' 3". 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So like she’s very short. [laughs] 

Em: But at– But 5’3” in first grade is incredible. 

Christine: I mean, she was really tall, and she was older than me, and I thought like, “What is her deal?” And so then I took her back– I mean, literally, I– We had no beef. There’s no discernible reason. 

Em: You’re like, “This’ll humble her real fast.” 

Christine: I wanted to humble her, and I, I took her backpack, and I put it in the trash can of the boy’s bathroom. Like what an insane thing to do. And so I put it in the trash can, and then I write a bunch– Oh my gosh. There was my friend Olivia at the time. I wrote her a note and pretended to be a boy in school, and I said, “I love you.” And then I like– 

Em: I did that that too, and I was gay, dude. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I– 

Christine: Okay. Well, yeah. Again, therapist, write that down, please. Um– 

Em: I think you were having your first bi awakening with Olivia. 

Christine: It could very well be. She was very pretty. Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And our friendship didn’t last long. I wonder why. Uh, so– 

Em: [laughs] ’Cause she liked someone else, I think. 

Christine: Uh-huh. Actually, do you know what? We also had a club. It was called the ghost or “the scary ghost club” or something. Okay, we have a lot to talk about. It’s fine. We’ll talk about it another time. I forgot about that. So um, so then I put every– Okay, so I fuck with everyone, and then I sneak back out. And I so vividly remember– It was like a f– It was like total dissociation. Then I went outside, and I remember being behind the building and thinking to myself, “Welp, too late now.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And I just like– And because I was so, not to be like dramatic, invisible, I like snuck around the corner and just kind of like hung out on the swing for the rest of recess. Nobody clocked that I was missing [chuckles], and chaos, chaos ensued. The entire grade– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –erupted in like, “Where’s my backpack?” And I mean, I switched like girls and boys. 

Em: I feel like you look like Regina George standing in the middle of a hallway and everyone’s just chaos around her, but she’s standing kind of like– 

Christine: That’s kind of what it felt like. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And I was like, “Whoa, I’ve tasted power,” and I just felt like, “Oh my god, this is the beginning of a serial killer or something.” And so I was like kind of like immediately regretting it ’cause I was like, “This could go really bad, and like people are really upset.” And I don’t know what I thought would happen. I don’t think I was thinking it through, but I just thought this would be a funny prank, and then it like wasn’t funny. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And the way Alyssa tells it now is that she um– Everyone finally found their backpack except for [laughs] Alyssa, and [laughs] she missed the bus. 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: And so she missed dance class, and– 

Em: Well. 

Christine: –she had to have somebody come pick her up, and they finally found her [laughs] backpack in the boys’ bathroom. So of course, a few day– you know, the next day they have this big all grade meeting. [chuckles] 

Em: Oh no. All– Like because of you? 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: And so they sit us all down, and they say, “We know who did this. We already know who did it. I want everyone to close their eyes. And the person who did it, we need you to raise your hand. You won’t get in trouble if you admit it right now.” Everyone closes their eyes. 

Em: [whispering] Did you– 

Christine: And I’m like, “Bullshit. You have no fucking clue. You’re bluffing.” They were fully bluffing. They never figured out it was me. They were basically like, “She doesn’t even speak English. How could she be– That’s not her.” 

Em: Well, also like another defense you could have used is, “Uh, well, I don’t speak English, so I don’t understand what you just told told me or I would have raised my hand,” you know. 

Christine: “Sorry–“ Yeah. “Hm? No clue.” Yeah. “Sorry about that love note I wrote in English.” 

Em: [in broken German] Sprechen d– Deutsch? I don’t– Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Uh, yeah, so that’s what happened. Um, oh, the craziest part is that just kind of went aw– Like it just– We moved on. Nobody ever talked about it again. Nobody ever figured out it was me. 

Em: I guess– 

Christine: I was a straight-A student. Like I wasn’t like causing any other trouble. That was the one thing I ever did like in school that was like really chaotic and could have gotten me in big trouble. And I got– I think I just like quit while I was ahead, you know? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: I was like, “Well, I did it.” And then I– 

Em: “Well, now I tasted power. Time to wrap it up.” Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. Time to wrap it up. Right? At least I have control, unlike some of these men– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –you know, in, in the government. They’re like, “Let me keep going.” Um, get it together. So then Alyssa and I become like best friends. We are– ride the bus together for many years ironically ’cause my mom gets divorced and moves to the same neighborhood [laughs] where Alyssa lives. So we’re on the same bus, and it’s all great and hunky dory. And then we’re like 17 or 18. My dad takes Alyssa and me to Skyline Chili, and we’re just having dinner. And we’re talking about, um, what kind of backpacks we used in elementary school, and Alyssa goes, “Oh my god, do you remember in first grade the time that per– that one– somebody like switched all our backpacks?” And I’m like, “No, not really.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I literally didn’t remember. And she’s like, “You don’t remember that? Somebody took my backpack and like put it in the trash of the boy’s bathroom.” And my eyes start going wide. And I’m like, “Oh my god.” And I said, “I don’t know how to tell you this, [laughs] but that was me.” Um, and she was so shocked. She was like– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –“Why?” I was like, “’Cause you thought you were so cool.” It really– I mean, it really was like ten years later that this finally came out. And I didn’t even remember. 

Em: It’s crazy. 

Christine: It’s crazy. Like what is going on? 

Em: If you could have gone back in time and just told yourself like, “Don’t worry. The, the growing stops. Like she, she won’t be tall forever.” 

Christine: [laughs] “One day–“ 

Em: Like you– 

Christine: “–you’ll be filming her wedding on, on–“ 

Em: “You don’t have to do this.” 

Christine: “Yeah. And you’ll realize, ‘Oh, she’s actually shorter than everyone here.’” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “And it’ll be so fulfilling.” [Something falls next to Christine.] Ooh! 

Em: You know, the second you got taller than her, she should have just stolen your suitcase or something. 

Christine: [laughs] I know. 

Em: She’s– You owe her. 

Christine: It’s just– I do. No, trust me. I’ve spent the rest of our friendship trying to make up for it. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And it r-really was like one of those moments where I went, “That sounds so familiar.” But, you know, I was so good that I put my own back– I switched my own backpack. Like I’m not stupid. 

Em: [laughs] Right. 

Christine: Like I wasn’t just going to stand there pretend like I’m the only one whose backpack didn’t get switched. Like I put more– The thing is I remember planning this– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –which is also insane because I remember the day before being like, “Tomorrow’s the day.” [laughs] 

Em: The insane thing too is that your final act of all of it was to even make yourself forget. So that way like there was no– 

Christine: Yeah! That’s how good I was masking is I was like– 

Em: The alibi was insane. 

Christine: –“I would never do something like that.” 

Em: Yeah, that’s– 

Christine: Or would I? 

Em: That’s criminal mastermind right there. 

Christine: I mean, it really– It– [sighs] Yeah. So anyway– 

Em: Well done. 

Christine: –that’s how Alyssa and I met. [laughs] 

Em: Great. You know what? You ended up at her wedding. So everything turned out fine. 

Christine: I was like one of the only guests at her wedding. I felt like I pretty much nailed the whole, uh, you know, redeeming myself thing, so. 

Em: Perfect. Perfect. 

Christine: That’s why I drink. [laughs] 

Em: A great reason to drink. I bet that’s why Alyssa drinks too. 

Christine: You know what? Everyone kept bringing it up, so I think she got plenty of,, uh, plenty of entertainment out of it. Yeah. 

Em: Perfect. Well– 

Christine: Also if anyone wants to weigh in on like maybe on a like a therapeutic, psychological level, please, please feel free. 

Em: I think it’s pretty self-explanatory. I think you just need– 

Christine: Do you? 

Em: Yeah, I think you just needed some control for a second. 

Christine: To let off some– Yeah. Okay, that’s– that makes sense. 

Em: Yeah, you were six. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Who cares? 

Christine: But I was so good at it. [laughs] 

Em: That’s interesting. 

Christine: That’s, that’s scary. 

Em: That’s– 

Christine: That’s what scares me. And then I’m like looking at Leona who’s literally a duplicate of me, and I’m like, “Uh-oh.” 

Em: Well– 

Christine: [goofy voice] “Uh-oh.” 

Em: –the second you get a call from the school and they’re like, “Everyone’s backpacks are all crazy”– 

Christine: I’d be like, [in German] “Sprechen Sie Deutsch?” 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: That does mean, “You speak German?”, right? I– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Okay. Just wanted to make sure I didn’t just like throw– 

Christine: [laughs] No. Very good. Very t– very apropos. Yes. 

Em: –throw another language out under the bus for some reason. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

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Em’s Story – The Kecksburg Incident aka Pennsylvania’s Roswell 

Em: Okay. Well, I have a story for you. I know that uh– I want to give you a thank you because we’re recording an hour late, ’cause I was trying to finish up some notes. I um– And even though you gave me that, that hour, I have to [sighs] re-regretfully tell you that I still didn’t do nearly as much research as I would have liked because every time I thought, “Oh, this is the last documentary,” there was like five more that showed up. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And I was like, “What the fuck?” So I– 

Christine: Well, and then you have to weigh the like pros and cons ’cause you’re like, “Okay, well, obviously more I know the better.” But then I can get inundated with so much info that you’re like, “Well, what do I include? What do I leave out?” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Yeah. It’s hard. 

Em: Well, thank you for justifying that because I do feel like there’s got to be– I’m sure one documentary I didn’t watch had like some completely different plot twist, and I didn’t get to see that one. So I, I hope I do this justice. I did quite a lot of research, but I, I don’t know if I’m gonna miss a big plot hole. Usually, I don’t rest until I’ve watched and, and gathered everything. Um, and this time I was trying to just do my notes and then I was gonna watch stuff, and it, it just– Timing it didn’t work out, I guess. But anyway, so I’m a little nervous to cover this. Hopefully, hopefully people in the area– 

Christine: You got it. 

[Christine starts snapping her fingers.] 

Em: –are– 

Christine: You got it. 

Em: –proud of me. 

Christine: Oh, that’s not me snapping at you to like hurry up. That’s me clapping– 

Em: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I got you. 

Christine: –with one hand. Okay. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] Just like sure it’s not like, “Okay, speed it up now.” 

Em: [laughs] “All right then. Hurry up.” 

Christine: “Are you paying attention?” [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. Um, okay. So [chuckles] I guess this is my attempt at the Kecksburg Incident, which, uh, is a– 

Christine: UFO. 

Em: –UFO moment. 

Christine: I’ve heard about it, but I don’t know any– I don’t remember any– 

Em: See? That’s– [sighs] 

Christine: No, but I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I promise. I just, Em, I say that to say, “OMG, I’m excited for a UFO story,” ’cause you know– I actually yesterday I was thinking, “God, I keep learning stuff about aliens and hearing stuff about aliens. They’re everywhere–“ 

Em: Mm? 

Christine: “–in my, in my– Like it might be the algo, you know, just my life algo.” 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: And so I think you’re just kind of confirming that for me. 

Em: Well, thank you. Well, I– One of the things that I’m most frustrated about is that I constantly want to give you UFO stories ’cause I know you enjoy them, but after– 

Christine: And I cannot be satiated. 

Em: But after like 500 episodes, there’s only so many left with really good meat to them. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: So I want to do those justice, and this happens to be one of them. And then I just like couldn’t even– There was the, the– What did fucking Lindsay Lohan say? “The limit does not exist when it comes to like–“ 

Christine: I was like, “Didn’t a mathematician say that?” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “What did Lindsay Lohan say?” 

Em: Yes, played by Lindsay Lohan. 

Christine: I was like, “Lindsay Lohan said a lot of things.” 

Em: Um, no, I just– I’m just frustrated because like I finally got a really good one and then like I just kept– there kept being more, and I’m like, “Well, there’s nothing I can do at some point.” So um– 

Christine: Listen, what I tell myself in those scenarios is, “Hey, I can always do a deeper dive for–“ 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: “–some other YouTube, Patreon, or another episode. Who knows?” You can do what you want. 

Em: We can always revisit. We can always revisit. 

Christine: This is your world. We’re just living in it. 

Em: That– You know, and I’ve always said that. So– 

Christine: [laughs] And Lindsay Lohan has always said that. 

Em: [laughs] She’s always backed me mathematically. Um– 

Christine: Oh, that’s beautiful. 

Em: So Kecksburg is in Pennsylvania. Actually, the Kecksburg Incident has also been called by a few of these, uh, articles and documentaries as “Pennsylvania’s Roswell.” [spooky tone of voice] Ooh! 

Christine: [gasps] Okay. 

Em: Um, which by the way, I’m aware I’ve never covered Roswell because that one horrifies me. Talk about it having a lot of meat to it. Um– 

Christine: Oh, horrifies– I was gonna say, I know some creepy stuff happened there, but yeah, as far as research is concerned, yeah, that seems like a– 

Em: Yeah, that’ll be a big one. 

Christine: –big one. 

Em: That’ll be like a three-parter situation, I think. 

Christine: Multi-part, yeah. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: ’Cause then there’s all this stuff during– when like– 

Em: And the government gets involved. I hate when the government gets involved. 

Christine: And they– And Gen Z got involved. I hate when Gen Z gets involved. Just kidding! 

Em: Oh, yeah. Remember– Remember– 

Christine: They were all like, “We’re going to Roswell,” and it’s like COVID and– Anyway. 

Em: Literally like they– I, I feel like that was right when COVID kicked in or– 

Christine: It was like right– Yes. 

Em: I think it got cancelled because of COVID or something like that. 

Christine: It was almost like it got started during COVID, and then they were like, “Wait a second. We can’t really do that.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And then the day it was supposed to happen, only a few people showed up or something. It’s like they had no follow-through. 

Em: For those who don’t know, there was like a massive group of people– like thousands and thousands of people. 

Christine: Well, and think about how TikTok was like taking off, so all– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: It was like the first like big TikTok Gen Z movement. 

Em: This whole group of people were like, “We’re gonna go storm Area 51. We’re tired of them not telling us what’s in there.” And they were like, “They can’t get all of us.” 

Christine: “And now’s the time.” Yeah, “They can’t get all of us.” 

Em: “They can’t get all of us.” 

Christine: I mean, ta– that’s the most Gen Z thing I ever heard. 

Em: And uh– 

Christine: “Just try.” 

Em: And I feel like it happened in like March 2020. And I think with COVID, they were like, “We’ll postpone,” and then the, the fire died. Um, anyway– 

Christine: Tragic. Tragic. Maybe you can reignite it for us. 

Em: Maybe the government created COVID so they wouldn’t fucking storm Area 51. 

Christine: Oh! Finally, a theory that makes sense. 

Em: Thank you. Okay, so Kecksburg Incident is in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. And this was in 1965. This was in December. Um, “Ketsburg”–Kecks-Kecksburg, by the way, is 30 miles south of Pittsburgh. So. 

Christine: Okay. Okay. 

Em: And it was a small little area. The population wasn’t even 1,000 people. So um, around 4:45 p.m., all of a sudden, multiple reports start coming in in the area, uh, of a fireball in the sky. 

Christine: [singing a variation of the Reading Rainbow theme song] ♪ Fireball in the sky. I can climb twice as high. ♪♪ [laughs] 

Em: [singing along] ♪ I can climb twice as high. ♪♪ [laughs] Just need a butterfly to fly past the, the screen or something. 

Christine: Aw, just like r-really, really pixelated graphics. 

Em: [laughs] Uh, they said that they saw a fireball in the sky. They said it was– it looked from where they were standing as to up in the sky as about a football-sized object, which I would say that’s like– 

Christine: That feels big. 

Em: –pretty fucking big, right? If it’s a football size in the sky. 

Christine: Like if it looks football size to you, right? Then it’s pretty fucking large. 

Em: Like a plane looks like a football size maybe to me in, in the sky. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Not even. Um– 

Christine: Like if it’s like pretty low. Yeah. 

Em: So yeah, it was a football-sized object on fire with smoke trailing behind it. Um– 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: –and many people also reported that not only was there this fireball, but there was a lot of falling debris in the area. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Not only people in Pennsylvania saw this. This is the strangest part and like weirdly not fucking elaborated on at all is that people in different states apparently saw this in different chunks. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Like there were reports through like Ohio, Indiana, Virginia– Canada! There– 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: It like– Multiple reports where like if you line it all up, it sounds like they all saw the same thing c– but as it was passing through their areas. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: That’s the– That’s what I’m understanding. If I’m getting that wrong, somebody tell me– 

Christine: I mean– 

Em: –because it, it was shocking to me how little that was talked about. 

Christine: –Ohio– Like, like Ohio and Pennsylvania makes sense, I guess, like if it were going in a certain direction. 

Em: One of them was– It was Indi– 

Christine: And Indiana. 

Em: Indiana. Indiana was one of them. 

Christine: That’s also on the line. The only thing that throws me off is Canada. But I guess maybe– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –if you came from the north and swooped into Indiana. I don’t know. 

Em: I have no i– All I know is that– Hang on. My stepdad just texted me. 

Christine: [laughs] Oh, shit. 

Em: He said something about getting me a hover disc for Christmas. What? 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, you better respond to that right away and say 100 emoji, 100 emoji. 

Em: He said ch– “Check it out, and tell me what you think.” Everybody is going to watch me look at this hover disc. 

Christine: Say Christine would also like one too. 

Em: [laughs] Oh, it’s literally a big ass drone or something. It looks like a lawn mower but a backpack. 

Christine: What? 

Em: I don’t want this. What is this? Don’t– I don’t– 

Christine: What are you gonna– Okay. 

Em: I’m just gonna write– 

Christine: But tell me what you say to say, “No, thank you.” 

Em: I think I’m just gonna write– 

Christine: That’s hard. 

Em: –“N-O.” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I’m like, “You have to be really thoughtful about that,” and you’re like, “N-O.” [laughs] 

Em: Well, the irony– I literally– I just sent him– I know I’m like literally in my 30s talking to a man in his 60s, but I sent him a Christmas list because I just wanted to make sure– 

Christine: Oh my god. And he’s like, “How about this instead?” 

Em: Yeah. I was like, “Did you not just see the– everything else I sent you?” 

Christine: What’s on your Christmas list? 

Em: Like a mug and like a sweatshirt I saw. Like it was like nothing big. I was like, “Hey, in case you need any ideas.” 

Christine: A new HVAC system. 

Em: [laughs] A fucking hover disc lawn mower backpack or something. 

Christine: [laughs] I mean, to be fair, that does scream Em. 

Em: [chuckles] It does sound– Yeah. 

Christine: It does. 

Em: But I was like, the mug is fine, you know? That’s all I need. 

Christine: “Actually, let’s just stick to the mug. Yeah.” 

Em: Um, yeah. I’ve– I was like– ’Cause I, I also know my my mom, bless her, she tries really hard, but a lot of times she’ll, she’ll send me things that like 17-year-old me would have loved. 

Christine: [laughs] Right. That’s classic, yeah. 

Em: And I’m like, “I think maybe we need some inspo. Let me just send some inspo your way.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, anyway, sorry, everyone watching the Christmas planning happening. Um– 

Christine: Seriously, I’m, I’m into it. 

Em: Uh, but yeah. So I thought that was really odd that a l– there were reports from all these places that if you line them up time-wise, it sounds like they were all seeing the same thing flying through their area at– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –according times. 

Christine: Interesting. 

Em: Um, at their respective times, I– Anyway. Um, and even pilots from the sky saw something fiery in the sky but couldn’t tell what it was. Um, some people on the ground reported seeing just a glowing object with wisps of colorful light flying above them. Some people saw some– uh, something glowing really, really brightly where they couldn’t even look at it. There were reports of an object that was slowly descending from the sky almost as if it was attempting a controlled landing. 

Christine: Okay, ’cause I was gonna say you wouldn’t think it would be a slow descent if it were like just a meteor crashing to Earth, but what do I know? 

Em: Oh, re– [scoffs] I think you know a lot. Remember that fucking sentence you just said. 

Christine: Thank you. That’s what I wanted to hear. 

Em: Um, this is one quote. This is two quotes from two different people that saw something that day. “We saw this thing coming over the top of the trees. It just glided right across the sky, like across the horizon.” Another person said, “You knew what an airplane looked like. You knew what a helicopter looked like. And that didn’t look like anything we had ever seen before. And at the angle it was coming in, you knew that it was gonna hit the ground.” 

Christine: Agh! 

Em: Um, which is terrifying. 

Christine: That’s the scariest thing. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: To see something like– and you’re like, “That’s crash–“ I’ve, I’ve had dreams about that, like helicopters crashing and stuff. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Freaks me out. 

Em: Well, s– I mean, a fireball of– coming towards you, and like it’s getting bigger and bigger and you know it’s going to fall and– 

Christine: And you can’t do anything. You can’t like even warn anyone, you know? 

Em: And to me, for some reason, the eeriest part is that other people said it looked like it was trying to control– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –its landing. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: So it’s almost like– Let’s pretend it was a UFO and there were aliens inside. It was almost like they, they were trying to do like an emergency landing of their own spacecraft. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And then now I’m empathetic towards the fucking aliens. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: I’m like, “Oh no!” 

Christine: “Help. Put on your seatbelt.” 

Em: Yeah. Um, so anyway, a lot of people in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, despite all these other places making reports, in Kecksburg, they started reporting to see something crashland in the woods. There were apparently reports of a sonic boom. 

Christine: Mm! 

Em: Um, which not everybody heard, which makes you think it wasn’t a sonic boom. [chuckles] 

Christine: I don’t know if that’s quite– That’s what we would call a sonic boom as that day’s like yellow journalism. You know, we’d be like– 

Em: [chuckles] So sometimes when I sneeze too loud, I call it a sonic boom, you know. 

Christine: Right. Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It’s just called colorful language. 

Em: Yeah. A lot of people also were reporting fires in grass nearby them– 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: –almost as if one of two things was happening: that maybe it had already begun crashing. It was bouncing across the field– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –and leaving like this big fiery s-spot– 

Christine: Right, right, right. 

Em: –on the ground; or that it was falling apart in pieces and– 

Christine: I was gonna say, debris– 

Em: –the flaming debris was hitting the ground. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: So everyone in town was seeing this thing or at least knew body who– knew somebody who was seeing this thing. People start running towards the woods to see what the object was. And a lot of them even said that they knew the moment this thing officially landed because they all felt a big vibrational thump on the ground. 

Christine: A sonic boom perhaps. 

Em: Sonic boom from inside the earth’s crust. 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: Some of the people, uh, were able to actually describe what crashed into the ground. And I say only some people– bear with me. Um, so okay, everyone hears this thing. They feel the boom. They run towards it. And the first group of people who get there are able to describe what they see, and they call it basically this giant metallic acorn. 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: Um, with uh– It’s got some sort of symbols on it. A lot of websites were calling it hieroglyphics. That felt a little yucky, but I’m just gonna go with symbols and– as the phrase. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, apparently, the acorn had no seams on it, which we’ve heard a lot about with spacecrafts. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: It had no wings. It had no like– There was nothing on it that made you think this thing should be able to fly. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And it was glowing so brightly that it looked like someone was welding. Like– 

Christine: Oh, weird. 

Em: Like a bright blue electric lightning– 

Christine: And they’re glowing– 

Em: –glow. 

Christine: And then you think like, “Oh, the metal is like this like liquid-y metal that doesn’t need seams,” and it’s like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –“Ooh, what kind of alchemy?” 

Em: [chuckles] You know what? That’s exactly what they said. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “What kind of alchemy is going on here?” 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: There was a volunteer fireman, uh, that night named James, and– 

Christine: He’s like, “I’m so glad I volunteered to be a fireman. This is so kick-ass.” 

Em: [laughs] It’s like, “Of all the things that could have happened in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania in 1965–“ 

Christine: Literally. 

Em: “–this is the moment.” 

Christine: I’ve never thought, “I want to be a volunteer fireman.” I know that probably comes as a shock to everyone. But I will say this is the first time I’ve ever thought, “Hm, maybe that is for me.” 

Em: Certainly, certainly, the second that someone else voluntarily gets a position where they get to see something cool, I’m like, “Well, now that must be my, my entire thing.” 

Christine: “Well, I think I want to do that too.” [laughs] 

Em: Uh, well, so James, he volunteered that night, and I think– I feel like I got conflicting stuff, but the ma– mainly what I was hearing is that he volunteered that night, and he was responding to what he thought was multiple reports of somebody saying that like a plane had crashed in the sky. 

Christine: Oh, shit. Yeah, that’s scary. 

Em: Because nobody knew what it was. They just saw something flying out of the sky and covered in flames, and now it’s crashing. And it’s– 

Christine: And it’s metal, and you’re like, “Oh, it’s some sort of aircraft.” Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. So a lot of people– Maybe people thought it was a UFO, but enough people thought that it was just a plane crash, and now the fire department has to come save people. So– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –that was kind of the way that it was first introduced to him, but this is a quote that he was able to give about what he saw. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: He’s one of the first people who was there. Um, this is a, a long one, but worth it. “The object looked exactly like a fresh acorn that you would pick off of a tree. There were no wings. There were no motors. There were no propellers. There was no identification whatsoever that could identify it as an aircraft that I would know. There was a bumper on the bottom part of it. And on the bumper there is what I call, it looked to me like ancient Egyptian hieroglyphics.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “It was– It had markings like stars, shapes, figures, and circles and lines, and what it was, I don’t know. To this day, I’ve never seen anything like it.” 

Christine: [softly] Wha–? 

Em: “So we’re all standing around this thing, wondering what the heck it could be, and finally here come two men down through the woods.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: “And they took one look at the object and immediately told us to leave.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: “‘We are in charge. We’re taking command–“ 

Christine: Were they men in black? 

Em: You know, certainly– 

Christine: Per chance? 

Em: –in the black of night. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Hold that thought also. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Uh, “‘We are in charge. We’re taking command. Get out of here,’” is what they said. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh my god. 

Em: “So we left there, and by the time we got back down here to the fire hall, this place was wall to wall military.” 

Christine: [gasps] Also like wow, they must have been really– They must have had some gravitas to just walk in and go, “We’re in charge. Get out.” And everyone’s like, “Okay, bye.” 

Em: Yeah, truly. 

Christine: You know, like you’d think someone would go, “Hey, well, who are you?” You know, but it’s like, “Whoa, no, apparently they’re in charge.” 

Em: So I did see one source say that after all the military was there and then after all the military left, there were people kind of still snooping around trying to see if they could– 

Christine: That would be me again. 

Em: Yeah. Um, I don’t know if they really found anything, but I would absolutely do that. I’d be like, “You better restrain me if you don’t want me to know about this.” 

Christine: I would fly your– I would take your hoverboard backpack and fly over there– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –just like a little drone, just to take a few pictures. 

Em: It– You know what? That was perfect timing for him to send something like that. “In–“ 

Christine: Seriously, he’s like, he’s like feeling the UFO vibes. 

Em: “In case you ever need to Iron Man through the sky and find a UFO.” 

Christine: I do, mm-hmm. 

Em: And then all of a sudden, you’re the UFO. You know what I mean? 

Christine: That’s pretty cool. That’s pretty cool. I just pulled up a picture of it just ’cause I’m like trying to– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It’s wild. 

Em: It literally looks like an acorn. 

Christine: It literally– but like not a metal one. It looks like yellow or is that just what they– 

Em: Is it in– Does it look like it’s a recent picture? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Okay, so– 

Christine: Is this like a monument or something? 

Em: [nods] 

Christine: Okay. Gotcha, gotcha. 

Em: Um, and also remember it was like apparently huge. Like huge huge. 

Christine: But the– Right. The shape of it is wild though. Yeah, you’re right. It literally looks like an acorn. 

Em: They were– Some were also calling it like a bell-shaped craft, and everyone was like, “It’s an acorn.” [chuckles] 

Christine: It’s literally an acorn. I mean, and the bigger part is on the bottom. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So like– Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Uh, like an upside right– right side up acorn? 

Christine: It’s sort of an upside down acorn ’cause usually they hang from the top. 

Em: What ma– What makes an–? I was gonna say what makes it upside down, but I guess you’re right. The big part b– 

Christine: Well, they hang from, from the stem. So it’s sort of like where the stem would be is the other side. 

Em: Right, but I would almost assume that’s right side up because it’s like its little tushy is sitting on the ground. Listeners, weigh in. [chuckles] 

Christine: Wouldn’t that be its head? 

Em: Hm. I don’t know. Wh– Listeners, which one’s the head and which one’s the tushy on an acorn? [laughs] Let me know. 

Christine: [laughs] We’re not scientists, okay? Sheesh. 

Em: [laughs] Anyway, um, what a lot of people said is even more jarring than the actual UFO incident or seeing something fall out of the fucking sky on fire. What was more jarring to a lot of people was just how quickly the military appeared. Like it was– 

Christine: Yeah, I mean, that’s– 

Em: It was eerie how fast they showed up. 

Christine: Well, you got Canada reporting sightings. You got Ohio, Indiana– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So it’s probably been crashing for a while– or slowly descending on fire for a while. So I guess they probably had like a couple hours to get people– 

Em: Yeah, and I– 

Christine: I don’t know a couple hours, maybe not. I don’t know. 

Em: And I wonder how many, um, how many phone calls until the military shows up in like ten minutes or less because like– 

Christine: Right. Like who– What’s the secret line where it’s like, “There’s no questions, just be at these coordinates,” you know? 

Em: Yeah. It’s like, “Hey, actually this is getting out of sorts, and we should go.” 

Christine: And how do they even track it with– I guess– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: That’s just crazy. 

Em: Especially if it’s a UFO and like not our technology, so how would they be able to find it so quickly? 

Christine: Yeah. Maybe they’ve got eyes on it, like radar on it or something. 

Em: Well, hold that thought. Goddamn it, Christine. 

Christine: What can I say? 

Em: You should– I really think like if there was such a thing as like, um, like ghost hunters, but like for alien– like aliens or UFOs. 

Christine: Oh, I thought you were gonna say like but for– Never mind, I don’t know what I thought you were gonna say. 

Em: [laughs] Well, I think– 

Christine: “But for geniuses,” that’s what I thought you were gonna say. 

Em: Right, right, right. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I think you should be like an active UFO investigator ’cause the way– 

Christine: I would love to be. 

Em: –that you’re just ripping this shit out is crazy. 

Christine: Listen, it’s just like it makes sense to me, you know? I’m like, I got– I get it. 

Em: “It’s just a gift. God gave it to me. There’s nothing I can do about it.” 

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. Yeah. 

Em: “I’m a victim here.” Um– 

Christine: “I’m just a Pleiadian.” 

Em: [laughs] So yeah, the military showed up really quickly. Within an hour, local police, state police, and the US Army were in Kecksburg, roping off the woods and setting up roadblocks. Reporters tried asking officials what was going on because, of course, if everyone’s there, the reporters were there too. Um, and actually one reporter– I forget his name. I think it was John Murphy. Um, he claims that he was one of the first people to be on the scene before the military got there, and he was able to get pictures of this thing– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and then they were later confiscated. 

Christine: Of course they were. Argh! 

Em: But he did later end up– Um, it inspired him to like make his own radio docu-drama about– 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: I think it was– Fuck, I forget what it was called. Um, but he ends up doing like, like a whole series where it was inspired by these events. Um, okay. So yeah, the local police, state police, US Army all show up. They’re like sealing off the area. Reporters are trying to ask the officials what’s going on. They’re left with only more questions. Authorities say that military engineers and scientists were on the way– 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: –which like the fact that authorities are saying that to the public is crazy. 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: Um, uh, some locals actually claimed that they were told the area was only sealed off just in case of radioactivity– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –which does admit that something odd’s going on. Like if you’re gonna say something radioactive might be here– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –you’re telling the public that something is going on. 

Christine: Yeah. Although you could pitch it as like this is a foreign invasion type thing– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –or like a terrorism type angle. 

Em: Sure, sure. 

Christine: Not that that’s like less scary, right? But I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. I don’t know. All I know is that they were– some people were told to back off ’cause it might be radioactive. And I would immediately be like– 

Christine: I– It would work though. [chuckles] It would work though. 

Em: [laughs] Sure. 

Christine: We’d all be like, “Oh, fuck. [laughs] I don’t care what it is. Get me away.” 

Em: Uh, other people– 

Christine: [chuckles] A radioactive acorn. I mean, really. 

Em: [laughs] Others claimed that the military and then men in trench coats– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –essentially told them, “Nothing to see here,” and then told them that they needed to leave, which is kind of what this firefighter said. 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: But if you’re telling everybody if– as you’re sealing off the area, “Something radioactive might be here. Military engineers and scientists are on the way,” and then also another group of people are like, “Nothing to see here.” It’s like, “What? You can’t–“ 

Christine: Mm, immediate, immediate gigantic blaring siren red flags, like– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Okay… 

Em: Especially for this one kid named John Hayes because John Hayes, he happened to live in a farmhouse with his family which overlooked the woods pretty perfectly. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And the military somehow fucking knew this. 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: I don’t know how. I don’t know if they had maybe just a general map of the area or what– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but he remembers and his parents remember someone knocking on the door, and it’s the military, and they said– 

Christine: Don’t answer the door ever. I’m telling you, it’s never a good thing. 

Em: The military, they moved into their house for the night and used it as their home base– 

Christine: What? 

Em: –while they started an investigation into this. 

Christine: Isn’t that literally in the fucking Constitution? 

Em: I– Pretty sure. Isn’t that the Fourth Amendment? 

Christine: You know, that the army– Yeah. Right? Like that the army can just fucking move in. And I remember in fifth grade learning that and going, “Hey, does anybody else find that a little problematic?” And everyone’s like, “I’d give my house to the army.” And I was like, “Congratulations.” 

Em: Yeah, well– 

Christine: “I hope a fucking flying acorn lands in your backyard then.” 

Em: Well, John Hayes’s family said that. 

Christine: Oof. 

Em: I wonder honestly if it was an alien investigation, I think I’d be too fucking nosy. I’d be like, “Move in quick. Bring all the telescopes.” 

Christine: Oh, yeah. If they were just not investigating me and investigating the flaming acorn, I’d probably be like, “I’ll just sit over here while you do your work, gentlemen.” 

Em: However, we are now outwardly publicly admitting that if anyone ever wants to investigate us, they just have to knock on the door and say that, “We think there was an alien. Can we come in?” 

Christine: Yeah. I mean, honestly, if they hadn’t picked up on that by now, their sources aren’t that good. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, so yeah. 

Em: Well, it worked for John Hayes’s family. It– I don’t know if they wanted them there, but they seem to be fine with it. Uh, basically, they just all moved in. And remember, wall-to-wall military. So um, this is actually a quote from John. I think he was like ten when this happened. Um– 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: –he said, “The first thing they did was tell my parents to send the ki– it– The first thing they did was tell my parents to send us kids to bed. Well, naturally, I was excited.” 

Christine: First of all, I’d be like, “Fuck you. You don’t get to tell my kids to go to bed.” They’d be like– They’d move out in five– They’d move out in five seconds. They’d be like, “This is not the r– We’re gonna put a tent outside.” 

Em: I think– The military would move in and then move out when I asked too many questions and going, “ What are you doing? What are you doing?” 

Christine: Exactly. Be like, “Can I offer you lemonade?” And they’re like, “No. Again, no.” 

Em: [laughs] John says, “Well, naturally, I was excited by all the goings on–“ 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “–and our bathroom was downstairs, so I made quite a few trips to the bathroom that night.” 

Christine: You’re like brushing your teeth really slowly. 

Em: [laughs] One– Yeah, one stroke at a time. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Uh, “There were a lot of men in uniforms, and there were some men in suits, and it was clear that the men in suits were in charge of everything.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: “They were over the top, uh– They were– Oh, they were over top of the military, and they had a lot of clout. I couldn’t see down into the hollow where they were at, but I did see six guys in radiation suits–“ 

Christine: Ahh! 

Em: “–take a box down there, and I didn’t see them bring it out.” 

Christine: [makes buzzing noises] Bzz-bzz bzz-bzz. Yeah. Testing for– Oh my god, that’s so freaky. 

Em: His mom– I think it was his mom. Um, yeah, it– Yes, I think his mom. She was quoted saying, “The military was coming in and out of the house all evening, and they were making a lot of phone calls, and they were–“ On their phone. “–and they were standing around in groups talking. I have no idea who they telephoned, but no calls turned up on my bill.” 

Christine: God, you– Oh-eugh! That’s so gross. Why is this so freaky that they preemptively like canceled all the calls? Or they have some like thing to turn off the billing? Ew. 

Em: Yeah. And also it sounds like it’s that easy to just not charge people. [laughs] 

Christine: Seriously. Also what is the code? I’m just asking for a friend. Just kidding, as if anyone has a landline. But still, fascinating. And also the fact that– Oh, don’t you wish at that point that you’d gotten the bonus landline phone for upstairs, and you’re like, “I just want to pick it off the receiver and listen.” 

Em: Mm, my dream is that they forgot to like pull one of the landlines out of the wall– 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: –and we just still get free calls for the rest of the, the rest of time. 

Christine: Oh, that’s good. Yeah. Just be like, “There’s one thing before you leave.” Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Em: [laughs] “You can, you can use our house whenever you want for alien investigations, but we get free phone calls for the rest of our lives.” 

Christine: It just– Like their number’s now just like CIA. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: It’s just– Yeah. 

Em: Well, so John also, uh, was later, uh, quoted saying, “I know I’ll probably never get a straight answer, but I know they went down in,” to the hollow where they saw this thing. “They went down in with an empty truck, and they came out with something on the back of it.” 

Christine: Uh, was it a giant acorn? 

Em: Well, in fact, many people ended up reporting seeing the military leaving town with a flatbed truck carrying something the size of a car under a tarp. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: The investigation or military search or whatever you want to call it was over by 1:00 a.m. So they were only there for five hours. 

Christine: Whoa, they are speedy. 

Em: And by the next day, the newspapers were obviously calling this a UFO crash landing. 

Christine: Obviously, ’cause it is. 

Em: Duh. I mean, even the reporters were fucking there being like, “This is crazy.” 

Christine: Accurate– Yeah. 

Em: It’s actually unknown for sure what would have happened once the UFO was taken, like where it would have gone next. But one former Air Force member came out, saying that he knows the UFO was taken from that area to Lockbourne Air Force Base and then to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base. And he knows– 

Christine: That’s by me. 

Em: Well– 

Christine: That’s where my mommy worked. 

Em: He knows that because he claims he was the one responsible for guarding it– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –while it was at one of the bases. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Um, who knows. 

Christine: Sometimes I’m like, “Mom, look around,” and she’s like, “Okay.” And I’m like, “Look for alien clues.” [laughs] 

Em: She’s probably made it this far by knowing to keep her eyes shut. She’s like– 

Christine: Fair, fair enough. Being on a green card for so many years, I think probably gave her a little bit of that hypervigilance. Yeah. 

Em: [laughs] S– “I know nothing.” 

Christine: Yeah. “Nothing, nothing, nothing.” 

Em: As for what this thing could have been, if it exist– if it existed at all, um, some think it could have been a test rocket, but both the Coast Guard and the Air Force say that they didn’t launch any rockets, which I love that– 

Christine: And it’s– What? Radioactive for fun? 

Em: Right, right. Um, so the Army, the Air Force, and the Coast Guard have all been involved in this at this point, which is wild. 

Christine: Uh-huh, uh-huh. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: They’re all blaming each other. Like, “No, it’s just the Coast Guard.” “No, it’s just the Navy.” Like, okay. 

Em: And– But you’re right. Like, interesting that they said it was radioactive. Now they’re saying, “Well, maybe it was our own test rocket,” but then someone else was saying, “No, it wasn’t a test rocket at all.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, soil analysis did suggest that something odd was going on over there, but it was nothing crash site worthy. 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: Like there was– It was nothing that people would– 

Christine: What about like the burn marks and stuff in the other places? 

Em: It, it was nothing s– 

Christine: It just looked like a normal burn mark or something? 

Em: I guess so. It was nothing to like write home about, I guess. 

Christine: Hm. Okay. 

Em: Um, trajectory analysis of this thing flying in the sky suggests that, uh, nothing that was on our radars could have crashed here. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh? 

Em: Anything that was in the sky that night, even if it crash landed, it couldn’t have landed in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Okay. Like physic– like, like physics-wise. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: Um, others think that this could have been some sort of re-entry vehicle into our atmosphere. Um, because those happen to be this– I’m, I’m taking it– I’m not saying the direct quote, but what I got out of the quote is that, uh, it might have been this exact type of re-entry vehicle because those happen to be nuclear, so if it did crash land– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –it would explain why the military moved so fast to get it out of a town. 

Christine: Okay, fair enough. 

Em: Um, and also it might have been radioactive. It could have exploded. We don’t know. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: So that’s a good guess is like maybe it was something that we know could hurt everybody. But also if it was one of our re-entry vehicles and that’s something that would have been on our radars, and we just determined that nothing on our radars could have crash landed. 

Christine: Right. Hm. 

Em: Um, a lot of people thought that it could have been a Russian probe called the Kosmos 96. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Um, because that day– I know. 

Christine: Sounds so like futuristic for the, for the time. 

Em: For ’65, yeah. For 1965. 

Christine: For ’65. 

Em: “The Cosmos 96, wow.” 

Christine: It’s like the Cosmo 3000, you know. 

Em: Yeah. Uh, one day when the year 3000 hits, all of our stuff is not gonna be cool anymore. 

Christine: Oh, it’s so sad. 

Em: I wonder what the cool year in the year 3000 will be. It’s got to be 10,000 at that point. Make it five digits. 

Christine: It’s got to be five at least. Yeah, five or ten. 

Em: Well, so a lot of people thought it might be this Russian probe, the Cosmos 96, because that actually is a satellite that re-entered the atmosphere that day. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Um, however, it re-entered at 3 in the morning, not 5 at night. 

Christine: Oh, okay, okay, okay. 

Em: Plus, there’s no way– As it was re-entering our atmosphere, it would not have landed in Pennsylvania. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, that’s the part that I’m kind of caught up– or caught off by. Caught up? Caught off? Caught– Forget it. 

Em: Hm? Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: Forget it. Forget it. [laughs] 

Em: Um, okay. So they determined, “Hey, it’s not, uh, this Russian satellite.” However, for some reason– At this part, I’m very confused on why– how this came to be. Um, NASA later then tried to push that it actually was a Russian satellite, even though they already proved that that’s not true. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, and then they also said uh– they also gave– they said later, “Well, you know, there’s more information about it that we haven’t told anybody, but the documents have been misplaced. So we–“ 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: How convenient. Um, so after– 

Christine: Ha, yeah, “We’re NASA. We messed up and lost all the paperwork.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Okay, sure. I believe that. 

Em: I feel like NASA should at least have– 

Christine: That feels like you sent someone to the moon. 

Em: NASA should at least have a– like a one-pager with bullets on like every day– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –every day of the, the calendar year, and it just says yes or no if there was a fucking UFO that day. Just– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: ‘Cause then at– And then just save that somewhere separately from the documents. 

Christine: Well, it’ll say no every day, right? 

Em: Oh, right. 

Christine: ’Cause like that’s just what they have to say. So they should remind, remind themselves you’re supposed to say no. 

Em: You’d think someone has the cliff notes of like, “Oh, yeah, that was a bad day. This was a good day.” 

Christine: “Oops.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Um, so anyway, after lawsuits to NASA, um, to release the actual documents and conduct a research on the missing ones– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –they ended up providing new information, but according to one investigator named Leslie Kean, there was no smoking gun. So even though they gave us more information, they really didn’t give us more information. 

Christine: Hey, that sounds familiar. 

Em: Hm, what do you mean? 

Christine: [chuckles] I don’t know. 

Em: What do you mean? 

Christine: What do I mean? 

Em: Like, hm. It’s almost as if before today– 

Christine: Hm. 

Em: –other people have told government organizations to release the files, um– 

Christine: Could be. 

Em: –and then they said, “Well, it’s real, but then it’s not, but then it’s real, but then it’s not, but then it’s missing. Oh, and now we can’t find it. Actually, we don’t know what’s going on. Uh–“ 

Christine: NASA says, “No.” 

Em: [laughs] Uh, anyway, they– Yes. So release the files. Um, that’s the main moral of this story. 

Christine: And I’m talking the Kecksburg files. Okay, people? [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Uh, so they ended up, yeah, giving more information, but the information was– the only new information they really gave was that they confirmed that NASA did, quote, “play a role in the recovery and examination of space object debris.” 

Christine: Uh-huh. Interesting. 

Em: So it does confirm that they collected something while they were there, but it doesn’t say what to any real degree. 

Christine: But it’s from space. 

Em: But it’s from space. Um, this whole lawsuit debacle, this is like– I’m really, just to save time, not even getting into the drama of this, but it’s very interesting. Um, this whole lawsuit debacle was sponsored by the Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”] Network. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] I thought you were gonna say like, “sponsored by Crest,” and I was like, “Whoa!” 

Em: “Sponsored by And That’s Why We Drink, promo code DRINK.” 

Christine: I wish. 

Em: Um, so one of the reasons a lot of people don’t believe like the, the files ended up saying, “Oh, NASA picked up space debris.” 

Christine: Ah. 

Em: They’re like, “Oh, this might have been a publicity stunt. But–“ 

Christine: Like Syfy [pronounced “sci-fi”] Network was like, “We want to make this int– as interesting as possible,” sort of. 

Em: Maybe. I– So– 

Christine: Wait, but what year was this that this was–? 

Em: 2000– From 2000– So in 2003– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –the Syfy, Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”] network, um, came out with a– one of the documentaries I was trying to watch and didn’t get enough time to do. Um, it’s called The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed. And– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –while doing– I think during that time they had an investigator working with them named Leslie Kean– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and was– She was trying to get more information, and she basically ended up using like the Freedom of– 

Christine: FOIA? 

Em: FOIA? 

Christine: I don’t know. Freedom of Information Act? 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I was like what? Yes. Good job, Christine. Um, they– 

Christine: Oh, thanks. 

Em: –they were trying to use that to help in their lawsuit to get more of the documents released, and I guess um– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –Syfy, the network, decided that they were going to help pay for I think the lawyers or something. 

Christine: Oh, so this was like later. I thought this was like back in the ‘60s. 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: I’m like, “They had the Syfy Network back then?” [laughs] Okay, so– 

Em: No, I think this all came out when Syfy was trying to come out with a documentary– 

Christine: Gotcha. 

Em: –and then they were trying to get more information. 

Christine: Gotcha. 

Em: Um, at least around the time– I think the documentary had already come out, and they were still like just in the middle of this, you know, hullabaloo of trying to get more information in case they wanted to, I don’t know, make another one. I– I’m, I’m a little confused about the, the timeline here– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –but I know that from 2003 to 2007 is when all this went down. 

Christine: Okay. Um, also I want to say Leslie Kean– I knew she was familiar. Um, she wrote the book, Surviving Death, which I have read. 

Em: Mm? 

Christine: It’s really interesting, but she’s not an investigator. She’s a journalist. Like she’s not a police investigator or anything like that. 

Em: No, but she’s– 

Christine: She’s like a– 

Em: But she is called in a lot of sources “an investigative reporter.” 

Christine: –investigative journalist. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. 

Em: Reporter. Um, thank you. So uh– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, no. I’m just confirming. 

Em: But anyway, it was Leslie Kean and the Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”] network versus NASA, I guess. And– 

Christine: Yeah, good luck. [chuckles] 

Em: And they ended up getting information, but who knows if it was all the information or just some of the information. 

Christine: Or they just like did something to appease them, and yeah. 

Em: Right. And then– 

Christine: –cobbled something together. 

Em: And then even if they gave them anything that was helpful, people still said, “Well, this could be a publicity stunt for Syfy and–“ 

Christine: Exactly, exactly. 

Em: “–Leslie Kean.” Anyway, all that to say, most people think that this was a “natural” experience, aka it was a meteor. Um– 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: Which would explain the small fires that broke apart uh– that broke apart– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –and slowly fell onto the ground. Others say that it couldn’t be a meteor because meteors, as you mentioned, don’t move the way that this thing was moving in the sky. It was just slowly– 

Christine: Like took a left turn out of Canada. Yeah, I guess, not really. 

Em: Took a left turn out of Canada. Slowing down as it fell. Some people were saying it was gliding in the air. Um– 

Christine: Right side– butt side up? Upside down? [laughs] 

Em: Right side, butt side up. And despite all this, uh, you know, the arguments against this, a lot of skeptics, including the Pentagon and Project Blue Book themselves, they deemed a meteor. 

Christine: [chuckles] “The skeptics, including the Pentagon.” Yeah. 

Em: You have to hope they’re skeptics. Uh, I don’t know. 

Christine: You have to hope someone– Yeah, if anyone. 

Em: While it’s officially deemed a meteor, many locals and witnesses, uh, remain convinced it was a UFO. It’s still discussed in the town today apparently. I, I like to imagine that there’s somebody with like a Bumble profile in that area who’s like, “You tell me what you think happened at Kecksburg.” You know, like– 

Christine: [gasps] Yeah. Yeah, “You’ll– We’ll get along if…” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t kn– I haven’t been on a dating app in two decades or something, but yeah. Uh, “We’ll get along if you think Kecksburg was–“ 

Em: Something like that, yeah. 

Christine: “–radioactive alien material.” 

Em: Well, like many locals, there is one UFO researcher named Stan Gordon, and he is very hesitant to believe what the government has to say about it. This is a, a long quote, but a good quote to end on of what Stan thinks happened here. 

Christine: Tell me what Stan thinks. 

Em: “Within several miles of the crash site, multiple witnesses tell us that this object was coming in at a very, very slow speed of descent. Meteors do not make controlled turns. They do not come in at a slow speed like this, and they, in fact, do not glide in, which this thing apparently did. There is no entry at all for the day. Uh– There is no entry at all for that day in the December log of all activities for the radar squadron. That tells us somebody apparently wanted to keep all the information associated with this involvement in that site away from public information.” 

Christine: See? 

Em: “The report indicated that there was quite a lot of interest by government agencies as to what the object might have been. There were memos there and requests for information from Houston Space Center, from NORAD, from the Air Force Command Post, the Pentagon, even the Chairman of the Office of Emergency Planning requested information.” 

Christine: See? And then they’re like, “It’s just a rock.” 

Em: And then Stan says, “Either we’re dealing with some highly advanced space probe, or the possibility exists that we may indeed be dealing with an extraterrestrial spacecraft.” So even he’s like, “Come on, if you all want this so bad, you obviously–“ 

Christine: Seriously. 

Em: So um, New Year’s Eve, 1990, Unsolved Mysteries puts out an episode on this. 

Christine: Ah, yes. 

Em: This event is what garnered this case to have UFO real fame outside of the town. And for the episode, Unsolved Mysteries actually built a life-sized replica of the acorn-shaped UFO. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: And they used it in the show for the– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: –redramatization, but when they were done with filming, they gifted it to the town. 

Christine: That is so fun. 

Em: And so you can go see what is now called “The Space Acorn.” 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: And there’s also a UFO store in Kecksburg for tourists. So uh– 

Christine: Well. Well, well, well, that’s about four hours from me, so let’s get started on that drive. 

Em: Well, you could figure out a plan to go in the summer because every summer, the fire department, the volunteer fire department– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –puts out an annual UFO festival. 

Christine: I love that the fire department’s like, “Even we understand that this is not–” 

Em: Like, “We were the first ones there, and we’re gonna keep this.” 

Christine: Seriously. “We saw what we saw.” 

Em: Apparently there’s a parade; there’s a fireworks show; they hold a conference with UFO speakers. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: Um, and so that was, uh, all I could get on Kecksburg Incident, but if you would like to watch some of the documentaries or watch some of the things that I either got to watch– 

Christine: I will. I will. 

Em: –or will be watching, there’s Unsolved Mysteries. I think it was season three, episode one. Then there’s the Syfy documentary– 

Christine: Sure, sure. 

Em: –The New Roswell: Kecksburg Exposed. Then there’s, uh, a documentary called Kecksburg: The Untold Story, Secrets of UFOs, America’s Other Roswell, and then, uh, Discovery Channel and History Channel both have their own series too. There’s UFO Hunters, Ancient Aliens, and Nazi UFO Conspiracy. 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: Because one of the theories is that this thing might have actually been one of the Nazi UFOs called “The Bell” or “Die Glocke” [pronounced “die-glock”]. 

Christine: Die Glocke [pronounced “dee-glock-uh”]? 

Em: Yeah. Um– 

Christine: Here, here, here. I got something for you. 

[Em waits. Christine looks down as if about to do something before looking back up at Em and laughing.] 

Em: We started at Nazi UFO Conspiracy. What are you gonna say? 

Christine: I was gonna sing you a song, but I think maybe I’m not gonna do that anymore. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: I was gonna sing you a nice Christmas song about bells ’cause that means “the bell,” yeah. And so I was like, “Oh, I have songs about Christmas bells.” And then I was like– 

Em: Well, you have to now. 

Christine: Well, I don’t know anymore how it goes. 

Em: Oh, that’s magica– That’s very convenient, Christine. 

Christine: I just accidentally forgot about how it goes. Do you want me to sing in Flemish though? ’Cause I could do that again. 

Em: I’ve heard too much of that from you, uh, the Flemish song. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: I still have a– Somewhere there’s like video of you doing that, isn’t there? 

Christine: [reciting lyrics in Flemish] 

Em: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I– The– Well done. You sang the whole thing. It was like a six minute song or something. 

Christine: It like was not correct either, I’m sure. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: I’m sure it just– I mean, I– Listen, it was my attempt at it, but I’m sure it sounded like [chuckles] gibberish. 

Em: I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t know. It sounded great. Um– 

Christine: Thank you so much. 

Em: Well, anyway, that’s another, um, topic I’ll be covering at some point. The– Say it again? Die Glocke? 

Christine: Die, uh, Glöcke [pronounced “dee gl-ewe-kuh”]. Yeah, it’s hard because it has a umlaut. 

Em: Um, but apparently that is a whole Nazi something UFO– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –where, um, apparently– 

Christine: I don’t actually know about that. 

Em: –it has to do with time travel. 

Christine: [gasps] To y– Seriously? 

Em: Which like the irony ’cause couldn’t we use that and go back and get rid of the Nazis? Anyway, um– 

Christine: Oh, I see. Maybe it’s die Glocke [pronounced “dee glaw-kuh”]? Glocke? I thought Glöcke [pronounced “gl-ewe-kuh”] meant– Now I just want to make sure I’m not like butchering my own native tongue. 

Em: All I know is in the US of A, baby, that’s called “The Bell.” Um– 

Christine: Uh-huh. Okay. Well, maybe I’m saying it wrong. 

Em: So I’ll be covering that at some point. Anyway, they– a lot of people thought that that might be what this was. 

Christine: My computer’s like, “I know you’re trying to talk about UFOs.” And I’m like, “Just tell me how to say ‘bell’ in German.” 

Em: [laughs] Um, anyway, that is The Kecksburg Incident. 

Christine: That’s– Oh, it is “Glocke” [pronounced “glaw-kuh”]. Sorry, die Glocke [pronounced “dee glaw-kuh”], not Glöcke [pronounced “gl-ewe-kuh”]. I don’t know what I was saying. 

Em: I feel like when I do cover it, I’ll just have to like bleep out my mouth and you just say die Glocke [pronounced “dee glaw-kuh”] every time I have to say it. 

Christine: Appar– That was good. That– 

Em: Was it? 

Christine: You literally said it more correctly than I said it the first time ’cause I thought– 

Em: Hell yeah, brother. 

Christine: Glöckchen [pronounced “gl-ewe-kyin”]– That’s why I was saying it– Glöckchen is like the diminutive of, of like the– like you know when you say like– you know when you add like a little twist to the end of a word to make it like kind of cutesy? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like Glöckchen. Like people call me– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like my dad would always call me “Christinechen” [pronounced “Chris-teen-hyin”]. 

Em: Yeah 

Christine: Like it– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So Glöckchen. So you add– Anyway that’s why I said it like that. 

Em: It’s like– Is it like in Spanish when you put “–ito” at the end of something? 

Christine: Yes, yes, that was the one I was trying to think of, the Spanish “-ito”. Yes, exactly. 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Um, that's my attempt to walk myself out of saying a, a very obvious German word incorrectly. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So– 

Em: Again, I wouldn’t know. So if– I’m the only one currently here, and I would have been impressed either way. 

Christine: I appreciate that always and forever. Thank you. 

Em: Yeah. Anyway, there, there you have it. 

Christine: What the fuck, dude? Okay, so I have a question because I can’t stop thinking about these, um, hieroglyphic symbols on the side. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Is this something that anybody has recreated? Like is this something where they’re like, “Oh, I remember– 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: “–what some of them looked like.” You know? 

Em: Uh, not what I saw. I just kind of saw uh– I read the description– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –about just having like stars and circles and lines, which doesn’t look like– that doesn’t sound like hieroglyphics to me. That just sounds like fucking shapes. But um– 

Christine: I guess, but like look at the, the re-reenact– the recreation of it has all these symbols on it, and I wonder if they made those up? 

Em: Oh, interesting. 

Christine: Or if it was like an attempt to like copy a certain– 

Em: Yeah. I don’t know. 

Christine: ’Cause they do have these like really wild looking symbols on it, and I’m like, “I don’t know where they came up with that if they don’t know what it actually looked like,” you know? 

Em: I bet it was in that one fucking documentary I didn’t have time to look at. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, fair enough. I should not put you on the spot. I just can’t get over it. I, I mean, what do you think? Do you have an opinion? ’Cause I do. 

Em: I mean, I think it was something fucking weird for every it seems space themed organization in our government to be curious about it and then magically have– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –files that they can’t release or have been misplaced. And then they’re also telling people, “Nothing to see here.” And I mean, it certainly– 

Christine: Don’t be ridiculous. 

Em: –certainly– Actually, um– 

Christine: Let me use your landline real quick to call the government– to call the president. Okay. 

Em: Yeah. And also um– Also how cool is that to know that your phone might have called the president? 

Christine: Yeah, but you can’t prove it ’cause they didn’t bill you for it. 

Em: Yeah, you know what? It– That’s exactly right. I– 

Christine: I’m sending you this picture ’cause look at these creepy symbols on it. 

Em: I do think um– I think it was like the little kid, John Hayes, or something. He did say, “If there was nothing– If it was nothing, why didn’t you just like let everyone see what it was?” 

Christine: Seriously. If it’s just a big rock and then it’s not radioactive– 

Em: Like if it was a meteor, like wouldn’t the like you have had the local press come out and take pictures of like a meteor shower? 

Christine: I would– 

Em: And like we all got to like take a picture with a fucking meteor? 

Christine: Especially if you’re the government and you’re so relieved it’s not a crashed alien, and you’re like– 

Em: Right? 

Christine: –“Shit. Thank god we don’t have to cover this up,” you know? 

Em: Oh, wow. These do– These are very interesting. 

Christine: Isn’t that weird? They’re like so, so detailed these symbols. 

Em: Yeah. I don’t know what that’s about. But I do– I really got to hand it to Unsolved Mysteries to let them have The Acorn. 

Christine: Well, what else are they gonna do with it? Fucking fly it to LA on fire? 

Em: Well, part of me wonders like, “What, what is it made of?” ’Cause if it was made in the ‘90s for like an episode of something, it might just be styrofoam. And I’m so impressed with how it stayed together. 

Christine: No, I was about to say it’s guaranteed something like that, like asbestos maybe. 

Em: They must have like spackled over it just to keep it– 

Christine: Right? 

Em: –intact or something. 

Christine: Just like spray it with a bunch of like r– whatever Gina put all over my dead bugs. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, poor Gina. [sighs] I’m like looking at pictures. I mean, it’s really– And if you look at it sideways– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Somebody made like a drawing of it sideway. It does look like a saucer. Like almost like a UFO saucer when it’s sideways ’cause it’s like the– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –bump with the– You know, it looks sort of that shape. 

Em: Yeah. It looks like the, the– 

Christine: It’s so weird. 

Em: –part of it’s like a little too tall and one part’s not wide enough– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –but it looks like a squished in some way UFO. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And nobody’s telling me about the symbols, which is just gonna drive me nuts. But um– 

Em: Join the club. 

Christine: I know, right? I– Maybe I’ll watch Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”]. Oh, by the way, we say that– If you’re new here, first of all– 

Em: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: –wow, you’ve been through an episode today, but second of all– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –you can explain, Em. 

Em: It’s just– It’s the Syfy [pronounced “sci-fi”] Network, but, uh, my dad always called it Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”], so it’s now lovingly called Syfy over here. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. From day one, Em was like, “Oh, I don’t want to correct him.” 

Em: I didn’t have the heart. 

Christine: I just don’t have the heart. 

Em: Or maybe he knew, and he just played it off so confidently that now I’m the confused one. Um– 

Christine: I think probably that’s not the case. [laughs] 

Em: I don’t know. I don’t know which one it is– 

Christine: I would say most– 

Em: –but I don’t want to find out at this point. 

Christine: –most grown adult men who pronounce Syfy [pronounced “si-fee”]– Whatever. I don’t know. Listen, I’m no scientist. You know that. 

Em: I don’t know. I, I know nothing. I know nothing. 

Christine: So it was metallic though, right? And you said it had no seams, but then they made the recreation out of like what literally looks like– 

Em: Like clay. Yeah. 

Christine: –like foam or clay. It’s weird. 

Em: Yeah. I, I do wonder how much of that is just like back in the day a pixelated camera in the ‘90s wouldn’t have even clocked half that detail maybe. 

Christine: Mm. Sure. 

Em: Or maybe if we’re serious about maybe it’s now weatherproof. Maybe this is a new coating of something else. 

Christine: They’re like, “Let’s paint it yellow.” 

Em: Yeah. No, they did say it was like a, like a metallic gold acorn, so. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Well, so then actually in some lighting I think it might be then they used– You’re probably right that they just used certain like camera or lighting. Because like look at this picture, and it– this is like kind of a– 

Em: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: –saturated, but it looks like shiny gold almost, which is– 

Em: Yeah, it looks like a brushed bronze or something. 

Christine: Yes, that’s right. Brushed bronze, my least favorite of the– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –of the sink finishes. 

Em: Interesting. I don’t– What’s– 

Christine: It is. ’Cause it– 

Em: What’s the one where it’s the brushed and it’s like kind of black but also metal? I hate that one. 

Christine: [sighs] I thought that was brushed bronze. 

Em: Is that? 

Christine: Maybe. 

Em: I don’t like it. I don’t like it. 

Christine: I don’t either. Brushed copper, perhaps. 

Em: I like copper. 

Christine: I just don’t like– like don’t pretend that it’s old or something. It’s just so weird to me. 

Em: Uh-huh. 

Christine: I’m like, “Come on.” Like I was so excited when I moved into my house, and some stuff here is so old. It’s like a house from 1860s, and then like 99% of it is just junk from HomeGoods that was like glued to the wall to look old-timey. And I’m like, “[scoffs] Come on.” 

Em: Well, that’s what I can’t stand. I really can’t stand the farmhouse look, which is why like this kind of– 

Christine: The rustic boho chic thing? 

Em: Well, it’s like you’re– It’s obviously not a farm, babe. 

Christine: It’s really annoying. I find it annoying. I’m like, “If you’re gonna go antique, like don’t fake it.” I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: You can find actual old shit for really cheap. [laughs] I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah. 

Christine: Like the– Like, for example, in my bathroom, there’s like this like toilet paper holder, and it’s like this bronze plaque, and it says like, “Paper company 1860-something.” And I was like, “That’s so cool. Like I wonder if this is a thing.” And I google it, and it’s like immediately on Lowe’s or Wayfair. And I’m like, “Okay. So it’s just some junky thing.” 

Em: You know– There’s only– Sorry, a motorcycle decided to go at lightning speed. Um– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: The one thing that– I don’t care if it’s tacky I don’t care. I don’t care. I don’t care. I– Even though it’s fake, I don’t care. It just does something to a room to me. I fucking love an exposed beam. I don’t even– 

Christine: Oh, I love an exposed beam. 

Em: I don’t even care if it’s a fake beam. 

Christine: Like you can’t even really fake that. Well, okay. Yeah, you can. 

Em: They do some prett– pretty incredible fake beams these days. 

Christine: Yeah, but see, I feel like that’s at least like an aesthetic choice rather than like “I’m pretending like this is an antique like a, like a– 

Em: Yeah. I’m– 

Christine: –from a time–“ 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: I mean, again, like as if I have any– Like my room is– literally has ch– dirty Cheez-Its all over the floor. I’m not saying I have any better taste than anyone. I just– 

Em: I am! 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Exposed beams are incredible, and everything else can go. 

Christine: I’ve been to– You know what I love is an exposed brick. 

Em: [groans] Oh! Don’t even fucking start with me on an exposed brick. Oh, don’t even. But– 

Christine: That was the thing that– 

Em: But you know what I don’t miss though? Or– “miss”? I’ve never had exposed brick. The one thing I don’t ever wish is having to nail something in or screw something in. 

Christine: Oh, I’ve been there. I purchased these things that you hook into the– onto the brick, and they like kind of clasp on. 

Em: Agh. 

Christine: But they don’t, they don’t work as well as I’d hoped. 

Em: I mean, I guess like it’s just a– you just gotta get some masonry stuff, I guess. But I don’t really wanna have to deal with that. 

Christine: I’m not– Yeah, no, I’ve tried to put stuff in the brick, and it did not go well, so. 

Em: I– I’ve had to drill into concrete, and it is [sighs] not fun. Not fun. 

Christine: So? 

Em: I agree. I think you’re right to not want to touch that. 

Christine: Thank you. 

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Christine’s Story – Lawrence Joseph Bader aka John “Fritz” Johnson 

Christine: Hello everyone. We’re back. This is one of my favorite stories and weirdly enough doesn’t contain a murder. 

Em: Oh, thank God. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Wow. Finally, some banter in this place. 

Christine: Happy Thanksgiving. Uh– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –this is a good one for banter. Okay, this is the story of Lawrence Joseph Bader. And I hadn’t heard of this story, and it’s one of those where I thought, “Well, surely I’ve heard of every like completely insane mystery case”– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –you know, from– But no, this one I’ve never heard of. Uh, I, I hope I’m not the only one ’cause it felt like totally obscure to me. But I listened to an episode of– By the way, trying to redeem myself again, Stuff You Should Know, not Things You Should Know, which is what I called the podcast last time. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Really embarrassing. Everybody corrected me, um, and said, “You owe–“ They did not say you owe them an apology, but I felt that I owed them an apology. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: So Stuff You Should Know did a really good episode. I also, um, watched a episode of Scary Interesting on YouTube, um, and then read some very colorful journalism from the ‘60s about this. [chuckles] 

Em: Colorful journalism tells me that– Did they say a bad word or something in there? 

Christine: You know, it’s just like when they say things about like people– [laughs] 

Em: Like racist things? 

Christine: And you’re like– Not racist, but like, “I don’t know that that’s relevant. I don’t know that like–“ 

Em: Sh– Oh, I see. 

Christine: “–how she looks or how he ta–“ 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: It, it just feels like what–“ 

Em: Like how all of our parents would just randomly like overly describe people where it’s not needed. 

Christine: And you’re l– Oh my god. Have you seen those TikTok–? Of course you have. But they’re like “my mom talking about anyone I went to high school with.” Like “You know, the one with the huge nose,” and it’s like why? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like you could just say their name. You don’t need to like give them a derogatory description. 

Em: Like why are we describing them in all the ways they’d be so embarrassed by? Like– [laughs] 

Christine: Exactly. Like why are we describing them by their insecurities? 

Em: “Who’s the one covered in moles?” It’s like– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –[laughs] “What? Why are we doing that?” 

Christine: “You mean that freckly girl?” It’s like, “What the fuck?” 

Em: You couldn’t say, “the one with the lovely eyes”? Like– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: Anyway. 

Christine: Or like “the beautiful freckles,” you know? No. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um. Uh, no, no, they couldn’t be that. So– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –Lawrence Joseph Bader, uh, he was born in Akron, Ohio – this is of course an Ohio story – uh, in 1926, and he came from a pretty well-to-do family. Um, one of his uncles was an Akron city councilman, and so he grew up like not really wanting for anything. He did a stint in the Navy and then did like a semester at college, but ne-neither of these felt fulfilling enough for him, and he actually became known as the guy who tried many get rich quick schemes. Um– 

Em: Love that, love that, love that. 

Christine: Yeah. So I was– [laughs] In Stuff You Should Know, they were like, [laughs] they were like, “If you’re known for your get rich quick schemes one semester into college, like you must be really into them.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And the other guy goes, “Oh, or they could be looking at his suit covered in dollar signs.” 

Em: [laughs] Right. 

Christine: “Like maybe he walked around with a dollar sign suit. That’s the only other way.” It screams get rich quick. 

Em: I’m– I– I’m on board with the first theory that he’s either really good or really bad at this. Uh– 

Christine: Yes, exactly. It’s like that– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It just feels like maybe not the best descriptor of a– you’d want to get. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Um, but, you know, that was just his vibe. He was like, “I can get money from my dad. I don’t really need to spend time in college, and I’d rather just find an easy way to make this work.” Um, neither of these plans really worked out, and he eventually became a cookware salesman for the Reynolds Metals Company. He ma-made a pretty good salary. I think in today’s money it’s like $120,000 a year. 

Em: Dang. 

Christine: I know. And he married a woman named Mary Lou. And by 1957, they had three children with a fourth on the way. He was known as a pretty quiet guy, pretty reserved, but he did have some outgoing sensibilities, especially with his friends. He had one party trick where he would eat an entire roast chicken, bones, and all. 

Em: Oh my fucking god. Oh. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Wow. Okay. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: See? I’m, I am locked in now. I am locked in now because, uh, you, you mentioned the bone. I really just want to watch him eat a skeleton. That’s kind of– I don’t care about the chicken part. 

Christine: Okay. Well, apparently people do, because I’m like– Like you’re eating a– You just– Are you also like vamping? Are you like, “And watch this!” You know? I mean, it’s like a whole chicken. 

Em: Like the chicken part, I’m unim– I can also eat a whole rotisserie chicken and have. But like– 

Christine: No, he just like bites it, like eats it is what I’m saying. Like he takes the roast chicken with the bones inside it and just will like– [make chomping sound]. 

Em: Like so he eats like a fucking wolf. 

Christine: Eat like– Yeah, like, like a dog. Yeah, like a wolf, like eats the whole thing. 

Em: I mean, I do what– If that, if that were a YouTube video– 

Christine: Party trick! [laughs] 

Em: I mean, also a party trick where you must just– 

Christine: You could not pay me to watch that. 

Em: The ca– Well, I was thinking like the caloric intake and the way that y– the bones are gonna rip you from the inside out. 

Christine: Blegh [makes retching sound]. No, you know, when they get all mushy. 

Em: I, I do need to see it at least once. 

Christine: ’Cause it makes it worse. I can’t– 

Em: I would like to– I’d like to go to a party and at least watch three bites of that. 

Christine: So you’re the problem is what you’re saying because– 

Em: Easily. 

Christine: –I really want none of this. I want none of this to exist ever. 

Em: I need to see it with my own eyes. And not because I don’t believe it, but purely just– 

Christine: Because you need to. I get it. 

Em: –just for the visual. 

Christine: Yeah, I get it. Um, so beside the chicken trick, he was pretty reserved. He had– 

Em: The “tricken.” 

Christine: The tricken. [chuckles] Mm. 

Em: No? Okay. Sorry. 

Christine: He t– he was pretty chill. Uh, he had some friends, and he was like kind of a nice guy, but he, he wasn’t anything– like any eccentric or, or boisterous kind of person. Um, he also had a bit of growing financial stress. IRS liens had been placed against him for unpaid taxes. He apparently didn’t pay his taxes for like five years. And he had recently received notices related to his debt, which was about $2,400, and in today’s money is about $24,000. And so it’s a significant amount of debt, but not like extreme, you know– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –like to the point that we’ve seen some of these big like family annihilator cases and things like that. 

Em: Right, right. 

Christine: Um, in other words, nothing in his behavior in early March,1957 suggested he planned any extreme action or planned to disappear in any way. And yet, let’s go to March 15, 1957. 

Em: Uh-oh. 

Christine: Larry tells his wife, Mary Lou, that he has an IRS meeting in Cleveland the next morning. And he says, “Afterwards, I’m gonna go fishing at Lake Erie.” And she says, “Please don’t. I am pregnant with our fourth child. I would really like you to come home after work.” And this guy says, “Maybe I will; maybe I won’t.” 

Em: Ooh! Okay? 

Christine: Had the same reaction, went, “Cool, guy.” 

Em: [laughs] “Okay. Well, then–“ 

Christine: “Cool.” 

Em: “–just don’t come home at all. Okay.” 

Christine: Yeah. “Go fuck yourself, I guess.” Um, so “Maybe I will; maybe I won’t.” And then he peaces out. And guess what? He will. Uh, he goes to the IRS meeting. He gets out several thousand dollars in cash, which was the plan. It’s not like he did that on a whim. Um, and then he rents a 14-foot aluminum boat and purchases fishing gear, including a life jacket and extra oars. He’s getting this boat ready to go into the water. Uh, it’s in Rocky River near Cleveland. And the clerk says, “Hey, um, I don’t know if you should be going out. There’s going to be a storm coming through.” And [laughs] the clerk said he remembered forever what Larry said in response. He said, “You never know unless you try.” 

Em: This guy really is all about the risk, isn’t he? 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: With his get rich quick, his eating skeletons. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: He’s just like, “Well, let’s find out along the way.” 

Christine: Also he’s like trying to do these witty one-liners. And I’m like– 

Em: He’s– 

Christine: I feel like that doesn’t even make sense. 

Em: He’s waiting for a slogan to appear. 

Christine: You know what? He’s waiting for it to click. Um, and I think he should try some more because this one didn’t really work. Uh, but so– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –[laughs] he takes the boat to Rocky River. Um, and he launches the boat. He’s actually spotted by Coast Guard, and they’re like, “Hey, it’s gonna be really bad weather. You better get out of here.” And he’s like, “I’m fine,” and just keeps going on his way. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, lo and behold, there’s a giant storm and high winds, rough waters. Larry never made it back with the boat. And– 

Em: Oh boy. 

Christine: –they send– 

Em: Did he come back with like a, a bigger boat or something? 

Christine: [laughs] He– 

Em: I feel like that’d be part of his lore. 

Christine: He’s– He comes back with no boat. Uh, he, he does not appear. Um, he doesn’t come home, and his wife is of course immediately worried. So the Coast Guard goes out, does a search. Wouldn’t you know it? They find a boat washed up near Cleveland’s Perkins Beach. In the boat, they find the life jackets, which is interesting because he rented them– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –cl-clearly didn’t use them, and one oar, and the boat itself didn’t appear severely damaged, just like dinged up a little. But Larry and his suitcase, which contained the cash, was missing. 

Em: The suitcase is what’s interesting because if the suitcase weren’t involved, I would have said, “This guy clearly thought, ‘What’s the big deal? I’m just going to go take a dip real quick and then get back on the boat.’” 

Christine: Right, right. 

Em: The suitcase is interesting. 

Christine: So the suitcase is interesting. And I also think– Well, like another devil’s advocate sort of point has been made like, “Well, he probably didn’t want to leave it in the car. It had several thousand dollars of cash.” And I was like, “Okay, fair.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: But I feel like why would you go– I mean– 

Em: Why would you bring it at all? 

Christine: Well, ’cause he was up in Cleveland, and so he’s like– 

Em: Oh, oh. 

Christine: –“I want to go fishing while I’m on the lake.” 

Em: Oh, while he was there. Right. 

Christine: Yeah. So like I guess, you know, but it just feels a little odd that the, the guy and the suitcase are missing, but everything else appears to be– 

Em: I– My only justification at this point is like maybe he was about to put it somewhere else, and it fell off the boat, and he went diving for it. 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: And then– 

Christine: That’s interesting. 

Em: And then he just like couldn’t get back. 

Christine: Yeah. So I mean, they couldn’t find him. And so they, they searched for several days, the Coast Guard did, but they never found a body or any further evidence. So he was declared dead, legally dead. Um, and that was May of 1957. He had left behind a pregnant wife and three young children. But within three or so days, uh, the, the timeline varies, a few days of Larry’s disappearance, uh, a man calling himself John Johnson walks into the Roundtable Bar in Omaha, Nebraska, holding a bartending manual and asking for a job. He claims his name is John Johnson on all his paperwork, leases, and official records, but socially, he introduces himself as Fritz. 

Em: Without question, I already know why this is your favorite fucking story– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –because it’s so Catch Me If You Can. 

Christine: Yeah! Yes, it is. Okay. I never– I didn’t put that together, but you’re totally right. Yes! Yes, you can’t make this shit up. You know what I mean? 

Em: You love an identity switch up. 

Christine: I do. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I find it fascinating. 

Em: A-and a successful one. Like a– 

Christine: I know. 

Em: –one where you somehow were able to like get paperwork and shit like that handled. 

Christine: I mean, what? 

Em: It’s fascinating. 

Christine: Like it’s like– There’s like those guys at the glowing acorn that are like, “We’re in charge. Get out.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And everyone’s like, “Okay,” you know? 

Em: It’s like, “Okay, John Johnson, Fritz, whatever you want.” 

Christine: Right? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like, I’ll walk in there and say, “I’m in charge,” but like no one would believe me, you know. 

Em: Because you’d go, “If you don’t mind?” 

Christine: “Um, excuse me? Sorry, can anyone hear me?” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah. Uh, so [laughs] he is friendly, sociable, loud, boisterous, eccentric, and he quickly becomes the talk of Omaha. Wouldn’t that be a dream? Um– 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. 

Christine: –pretty s– [laughs] I mean, yeah actually. Pretty soon he becomes like basically a local celebrity. He develops this like– not even notoriety, like really just kind of fame in town, um, as this eccentric guy. He actually had an active tumor behind his eye at the time– 

Em: Ooh. 

Christine: –which required surgery, and so they actually had to remove his eye. 

Em: I literally– [sighs] 

Christine: What? 

Em: I think just like– People who have any sort of eye adjacent surgery are unsung heroes that need a lot more– 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: –a lot more applause. I– 

Christine: Well, apparently it worked ’cause he got an eye patch– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –and people were like, “We’re so into this.” 

Em: I– If someone ever has an eye anything, the respect goes sky-high for me. 

Christine: Have you ever seen that creator who like shows her different eyes that she puts in? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Sure have. Sure have. I just– I– I’ll never, I’ll never be comfortable, comfortable with my own eyeballs. So the second that anyone’s like, “Oh, yeah. Someone had to touch them medically,” I’m like, “Well–“ 

Christine: Medically? [laughs] 

Em: “Well, then I guess we’re done here. Like you win.” [laughs] 

Christine: Well, apparently, it was true, and he really did. It wasn’t just like an eye patch accessory. Like he actually did have, um, his eye removed– 

Em: Holy shit. 

Christine: –and so he wore this eye patch. And of course, this only added to his eccentricity in town. Um, he also sported a neatly maintained pencil mustache, um, which was sometimes described as curled at the ends. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So you can just picture this guy like pirate adjacent, you know, like mustachioed man named Fritz. Like he’s just a goofball, and he wears these like bright colored jackets, colorful bow ties. Like he’s just this character. 

Em: I do think he’s kind of doing the identity thing wrong. Aren’t you supposed to make like no big, big flair-y attentions? 

Christine: Oh, you mean you’re not supposed to become a local radio personality? 

Em: [laughs] Mm-hmm. That’s what I meant. 

Christine: Yeah. Oh– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –well, apparently he got the wrong rulebook because he was described by folks as theatrical, showman-like, or even, my favorite, “vaudeville-ready.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Really good stuff. 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: Really good stuff. He took a bartending job at the Roundtable Bar, and he performed small tricks to the clientele. He would spin bottles. He would flick ice. He would like deliver these spontaneous toasts for no reason. Um, like some people– some sources said that he’d go to places like– a car dealership was having like a ribbon cutting ceremony, and he would like give an impromptu speech, even though he had nothing to do with the car dealership. Like he’s just– [laughs] 

Em: He’s kind of giving Michael Scott. 

Christine: Yes! Okay. He’s giving like, uh, “I’m the center of attention, right?” And everyone’s like, “Huh?” you know. “Who are you?” 

Em: He was really forcing the narrative [chuckles] that nobody’s asking. 

Christine: But the, the, the, the Stuff You Should Know folks made a really good point that he was not– like nobody looked down on him for that. Like nobody looked at him like in the Michael Scott– like, “This guy,” you know. Not nobody, I wouldn’t say that, but like in general, he wasn’t considered a creep. He wasn’t considered like a freak. Like he was just like, “Oh, he’s that, that quirky guy, and like we’re into it.” 

Em: I think– I mean– I don’t know if it’s pretty privilege– It’s popular privilege, I guess. It’s like if you have enough confidence and enough people– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –backing you, already saying that like you’re vouched for, then you can– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –really get away with a lot. 

Christine: You can rock anything. A lot. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. And so– I mean, this guy is just like really, um, involved in his community– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –I guess, to the point that he’s giving like speeches at [chuckles] car dealerships. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, but he’s also like a really conscientious, uh, customer and that kind of thing. He tips like 200% on all his bar tabs and bills. Um, he writes ch– Okay, so some of the weird– I want to– I wrote down some of the weird idiosyncrasies he had, the eccentricities. So, for example, he wrote checks using the season instead of the date. So he w– Instead of saying “August 5,” he would write, “late summer.” [laughs] 

Em: Doesn’t feel legal. 

Christine: I know. This is the 1950s for you. And– 

Em: I see. Okay. [chuckles] 

Christine: Again it’s the privilege of “this is how I do it,” and everyone just has to kind of deal with it. 

Em: Right, right. 

Christine: And I feel like they– like people thought this was a fun little quirk, but then it’s like, okay, but like how annoying is that? Like if you work at the bank, right? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, another thing he did is he would take the tips he received, uh, to the bank– He would get them in like a glass milk jug, and, uh, when he wrote like the deposit slip, he would write [chuckles] “one quart of tips.” [laughs] 

Em: Now, that’s good. 

Christine: And then make the teller count it when he left. Like it’s kind of rude. [laughs] 

Em: I mean, it’s rude, but I mean, like, if you want to stick out that’s maybe– 

Christine: Yeah, clearly. 

Em: I mean, that maybe that’s part of why he’s so remembered because he’s known as like that fucking guy. 

Christine: He’s so weird. Like, he really does so many things that are like, “Heh?” Like you can’t– 

Em: You know, there’s one person in town who’s like, “Why do we give this guy so much praise?” [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah. Like, “Does anybody else see what I see?” 

Em: “Like he gave you a quart of money–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “–and is asking you to count it now.” 

Christine: And makes you count it? Um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s just weird. And so people were like obviously clocking all this behavior and were like, “That’s Fritz for you.” Um, he was very, very involved in the community, like I said. He joined the Knights of Columbus. He participated in civic groups, charity activities, social events. Um, he was very into volunteering, and his name “Fritz” became like kind of synonymous with his like quirky behavior. So people would know Fritz in all the different social circles. He often had people, a lot of ladies, over to his home. Um, and at his home, he had no furniture. He only had cushions and bean bags. [laughs] Like it’s a very bohemian vibe, I guess, back then. 

Em: You know what? He’s clear– I keep wanting to make fun of him, but he’s clearly doing something right. Like he’s– 

Christine: He’s got a– He’s got–He’s sticking to a vibe, I guess. 

Em: He– At, at the very least the confidence is exuding, you know, uh– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –some sort of power, so. 

Christine: Yes, exactly. He actually, uh, on that note, also drove a hearse as his vehicle. 

Em: Okay. I mean– 

Christine: Um– 

Em: –uh, the hearse and the bean bags are– I– I’m on board. 

Christine: It feels very Em-coded to me. Um– 

Em: Yeah. He’d get me. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: The chicken thing would really nail the, nail the coffin down. I would– 

Christine: Yeah. It would nail the coffin down? 

Em: You know what I’m saying? 

Christine: Into the back of the hearse? Yeah. So he had this hearse, and he had like a little lounge seating area in the back of the hearse, you know, for when the ladies came over. 

Em: I get it. 

Christine: And um– Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he actually got the car registered as a hunting vehicle. [laughs] 

Em: This guy’s really cool. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: I’m like turning. I’m turning. I’m turning. 

Christine: I know. Okay. And so when people ask like, “Oh, where are you from? What’s your backstory?” He told like slightly contradicting stories, but he usually claimed he’d grown up in an orphanage, but he never cla– he never explained where it was. He also said he was one of like 24 kids named John Johnson or something like that. And people were like, “Okay.” Um– 

Em: [chuckles] So the orphanage was a cult. Or like– 

Christine: I know, right? It sounds like it. Um, or just a really lazy– [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: –like, “We’re all just gonna call you John Johnson.” Um, but then as for Fritz, he claimed that this was from, uh, a comic called Katzenjammer comic. Um, and it– and/or he also occasionally told sto– a story that in the– his time in the Navy that his haircut– he looked German, and so people nicknamed him Fritz. And so nobody really knew where the name came from, but it stuck, and so that’s what he used. One of the like most notable stunts that he pulled at this point is volunteering for a charity event that required– Have you ever heard of something called a publicity roost? Like you did like, um, sororities and stuff. So I don’t know if this is a normal thing, but it sounds insane to me. 

Em: I don’t, I don’t know what that is. [chuckles] 

Christine: That’s good ’cause if you did I would be worried. But it’s basically where you live in a small box [chuckles] on top of a pole for several days. [laughs] 

Em: No, but you know I’d do it. 

Christine: I know! 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You're sick, okay? So basically he immediately volunteered. They needed someone to live in a small box for a few days, and he said, “Sure, I’ll do it.” So they hoist him up there into this enclosure, and he stayed there throughout the whole fundraiser. I think it was for polio, I believe. He waved to onlookers. He joked with photographers. He was like interacting with the crowds, again, like vamping. Um, friends used a pulley system to send supplies up to him– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –including newspapers, cigarettes, notes, sandwiches. I don’t even want to know about the whole bathroom situation, but that’s my first thought. 

Em: Have I– Sorry, fi-finish your point, but I have a, a note to add to this. 

Christine: Great. So the last thing I have to say is, according to multiple newspaper reports, his friends also used the pulley to send up martinis. Okay, go. 

Em: Okay. Okay. So– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –very cool. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, I– Allison and I went to a mini golf place in, I think Newport or– Newport, California at least on the way from– 

Christine: I was like, “Kentucky?” 

Em: No, no, no. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –it was either in Newport or it was along the way back from Newport. And there’s one hole that has what looks like an– like a cartoonish like treehouse– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –on the, on the, the hole. Um, and it’s just like overlooking you, this big treehouse up in the air. And it has– Like you wouldn’t even notice, but there’s this little plaque that says like a world Guinness record was broken of like somebody living up there for a while. And I looked him up, and apparently– 

Christine: Named Fritz. 

Em: No, that’d be crazy though. 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] 

Em: Um, but no, I looked it up, and I guess it was like during an actor strike, and he was an actor, and he was hoping that it would like garner attention or like some sort of protest for him. [speaking quietly] And nobody really cared, it seems. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh no. 

Em: It was like so sad. Although, the town was really invested in this, and like a bunch of local restaurants, um, started like, uh, scheduling out which days each of the restaurants would go deliver him food t– in like in solidarity or something. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And so every night, he had like a different restaurant like do a pulley system– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –and bring food up for him. 

Christine: Oh, see? It’s a thing. 

Em: Yeah. I also– 

Christine: I, I guess. 

Em: –I don’t know the bathroom situation, but he lived up there without coming down for like over a year. 

Christine: A year? Okay. 

Em: It was crazy. Yeah. 

Christine: Fritz could never. He was up there for like a few days. Okay? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: But I love that it’s called a publicity roost. 

Em: I never heard that phrase before. 

Christine: I haven’t either. And I love that they were seeking volunteers for it. 

Em: Yeah, yeah. 

Christine: It’s wild. 

Em: I mean, I, I would also volunteer. I’d be like, “That–“ 

Christine: I know you would. 

Em: “It’s easy.” 

Christine: I know you would. You’re like, “Free sandwiches?” 

Em: A, a week maximum. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: So they were setting martinis up through a pulley– via a pulley system, which I adore. Um, and of course, this stunt contributed to his local notoriety. When he came down from the publicity roost, he got into a convertible with a bunch of models, and they all like put their arms over him as they drove away. Like, he’s like a showman. He’s vaudeville ready, as they say. 

Em: I feel like he’s doing a lot of what like, like what major collabs would do these days– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –to try to promote something, but he’s doing all of them back to back– 

Christine: But also like it’s– 

Em: –and no one’s asking. 

Christine: –what they want– It’s like what a collab– like what these brands would want to pull off– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –but like he’s just like doing it on a whim on his own. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah, incredible. 

Christine: Like marketers could never nowadays. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, he also developed a strong affinity for archery, and, as part of this whole archery situation, uh, he said it was because he had a bad back and it was like good exercise for his back, but he became skilled very quickly. He practiced intensely and at night a lot of the time, and he ended up competing in tournaments, gained statewide attention, and even won the Nebraska State Indoor Archery Championship. 

Em: Damn. 

Christine: I know. So this win generated press coverage focused on the novelty of a man with one eye being like an expert archer, right? 

Em: [chuckles] You know what? 

Christine: Like you know they love this shit. 

Em: That is incredible. 

Christine: It is incredible. 

Em: He has no depth perception. That’s incredible. 

Christine: Right? I know. And so, uh, they, they got really into it, and the Yeoman archery company said, “We want to sponsor you.” And so now he’s like a sponsored archery expert and is like going on tours and all this stuff. 

Em: It has now switched from Catch Me If You Can to Forrest Gump. 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. All right. 

Em: Where he like becomes like the ping pong master all of a sudden, you know? 

Christine: Yeah. So we’re on to something here with wh– with my own affinity with– to the story. I’m, I’m, I’m seeing the pattern here. 

Em: He’s just like fulfilling every pop culture movie from the ‘90s it seems. 

Christine: Uh-huh, uh-huh. Especially– 

Em: What’s next? Does he sink in a– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –in a ship called the Titanic? I don’t know. 

Christine: He already sank on a ship. [overdramatic gasp] 

Em: Oh my god, he did. [laughs] 

Christine: OMG. 

Em: I feel like all the movies from the ‘90s were just written fr– about different chapters of his life at this point. 

Christine: And he had a makeover, like every other ‘90s movie. 

Em: Pretty Woman? 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: I feel like there’s a million. Yeah, Pretty Woman. Um, Clueless. 

Em: He took his glasses off while walking down the steps, and everyone realized– 

Christine: Yes! 

Em: –he was beautiful, just in time for prom. 

Christine: Thank god. 

Em: I know. 

Christine: He's hot now. 

Em: Ah, finally. I mean– 

Christine: That eye patch really does it. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: People were really into it. He got a lot of ladies. 

Em: You know what? Good for him. 

Christine: Listen, I’d be into a guy with an eye patch, for sure. 

Em: With this amount of lore, I’d be interested in him. 

Christine: For real. Like you want to be him. I, I know it. I feel it. Um, I just– I can’t get over it. And, and as part of this whole archery deal, he would, of course, do trick shots like popping balloons, shooting behind his back, doing like timed shots, and like vamping with the crowd as he did archery. Like he’s just a showman. He even signed autographs for people in this like elaborate way where he just wrote “Fritz” or “Fritz Johnson.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: And he gave like really lively speeches at the archery events and occasionally entertained audiences by, hm, eating an entire chicken, bones and all. 

Em: You gotta go back to your roots. He kno– 

Christine: You can’t not. If that’s a skill you have, you have to use it. You know what I mean? 

Em: In the words of Hannah Montana, “you’ll always find your way back home.” 

Christine: [laughs] As Lindsay Lohan once said– Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] So of course, as I already alluded to, uh, he became, um, somewhat of a local radio station personality at KBON radio, and he would deliver sports segments, local event updates. He was described as having a warm animat– animated voice. His, his voice was very recognizable. Um, and they knew him as like “the guy with the eye patch.” He’d often rib his friends who were getting married and like said things like, “Oh, that’s a big mistake. You know, marriage is for losers,” whatever. He would make commentary about like people getting married. But then he met a woman named Nancy, and in 1959, they were married and had a child together. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And he kind of ate his words and was like, “You’re right, but I hadn’t met Nancy yet,” you know. Neighbors remembered him as an affectionate, helpful, and very involved, um, father and husband. And no one really questioned him ’cause they didn’t have reason to. In early 1960, Fritz traveled to Chicago for a major sports expo as a representative of Yeoman Archery. He performed demonstrations in a bright jacket and bow tie, interacting with crowds and exhibitors. But one man had come up from Akron, Ohio, and– 

Em: Uh-oh. 

Christine: –[chuckles] stopped– 

Em: Well– 

Christine: –short when he saw what basically looked like the ghost of his former acquaintance, Larry Bader, who for all intents and purposes had died in a tragic boating accident three years earlier, never had a mustache, and surely didn’t wear an eye patch. 

Em: You know, the fun had to end somewhere. And if you’re playing with fire that obviously, you know. 

Christine: And you are playing with fire. Really, I mean, pushing it. 

Em: I– You gotta ke– Again, you got to keep a low profile if you’re going second identity. Like you can’t be s– 

Christine: Pushing the envelope. 

Em: What i– Something was gonna happen. People were gonna talk. You’re too fucking weird. People were gonna talk. 

Christine: You’re too weird. And the newspapers don’t have anything better to talk about, you know. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: He called Larry’s niece ’cause the guy was like, “Okay, I’m sure this is Larry, but I feel like I need his family to like confirm.” So his niece drives up from Akron and is like, “Uh, that’s my uncle.” [chuckles] 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: A-and she– Multiple reports say she approached him and said some variation of, “Excuse me, sir. Aren’t you my uncle Larry?” which is a wild thing to say. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And he said– [laughs] And he said, “Oh, no. I think you have me mistaken with someone else,” and she’s like, “Mm, nope, I’m pretty confident you’re Larry.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: So she calls some male relatives and asks Fritz to get on the phone, and he’s like, “I mean, sure, I’ll talk to them, I guess, just to kind of put this aside.” He gets on the phone, and his brother and cousin are like, “Larry? Like we would recognize your voice anywhere.” And they contacted the police. Fritz agreed to get fingerprints taken. Because he really was like, “What are you guys talking about?” 

Em: Mm. I think I know where we’re going now. 

Christine: I think you do too. Uh, he got his fingerprints taken. He agreed to it. He went in, and he got them compared with this other fellow, Larry Bader’s, fingerprints because they were both in the Navy. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Fritz basically intimated that this was all a big misunderstanding, but when they checked the fingerprints, of course, they were a match. And it was officially declared that Fritz Johnson and Larry Bader were the same man. And when he found out, he reportedly said something like, “Well, that answers that.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “Well, I’ve done weirder things, so just–“ 

Christine: Yeah. He was like, “Huh? I guess?” 

Em: “–add it to the lore.” 

Christine: And it’s weird because like it wasn’t that he denied it at this point. He was like, “Well, if the fingerprints say it, I guess that’s my identity.” Like he didn’t deny it. You know what I mean? 

Em: Well, so what I was thinking– Or is there, is there– Do you know what I was thinking? 

Christine: Yes. But please go ahead ’cause I’d like you to bring it up, if you don’t mind. 

Em: Okay. So my guess is that he did fall off that ship and on his way down hit his head. And he– 

Christine: So that is a major theory. 

Em: Okay. ’Cause he does seem to not know what’s going on here. 

Christine: And remember the eye? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: The brain tumor. 

Em: Like maybe– Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. 

Christine: So there are a couple theories here, right? Like did he take advantage of that and pretend like he didn’t remember? Was it like– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –because he knew he had the tumor he could blame, you know? 

Em: And also if he knew he had the tumor, maybe he thought he was leaving his family before something terminal happened? 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Like maybe he thought like, “I’m–“ 

Christine: Right. 

Em: “Maybe I’m saving them by them not having to see me suffer, and then it–“ 

Christine: Right. And a lot of th– 

Em: I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Christine: Uh, some theories are that he went to die by suicide on this boat trip– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and then, you know, it went awry. He was injured. He didn’t know– He went into a fugue state and– you know. And these things weirdly do happen, these like dissociative fugues where you literally don’t remember your own, uh, biographical history– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and your brain, as a coping mechanism, like invents a story. And on that note, I should mention that his former boss was Fritz something or other. 

Em: Oh, so maybe he just kind of remembered the name. 

Christine: And they think maybe he just pulled that from somewhere in his mind and was like, “Oh, yeah, that’s me, Fritz,” and just went with it. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, and he had some of it right, like the Navy and all that. But then he genuinely appeared baffled by this whole situation, um, which was kind of bizarre. So he insisted he had no memory of his Ohio life, but he took this fingerprint test really seriously and was like, “Well, I guess if that’s what it says.” He also denied knowing his wife, Mary Lou, or any of his children. Um, he met with them, and he even enjoyed their company. Like they spent a couple days together in Chicago. But Mary Lou basically claimed like, “He doesn’t know who we are.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: She’s like, “He does not have any history of a relationship with us,” which must be so scary. 

Em: So messed up. Yeah. And especially like confusing for the kids– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –when like your dad isn’t excited to see you and like– 

Christine: I will say the youngest– the old– Sorry, the oldest was six when he disappeared. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So he would remember probably some, but, you know, really little, so most of them didn’t even remember him very well. 

Em: Okay. It’s almost a blessing. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: It’s like at least you’re not totally heartbroken. I don’t know. I don’t know. 

Christine: Yeah. It must be a– like a sick feeling though to be like, “Did my dad like leave on purpose,” you know? 

Em: Oh, sure. Yeah. 

Christine: And– Yeah. And, um, Mary Lou had already kind of grieved and moved on, and she was actually engaged to a new man. But now that they found her husband, she was a good Catholic and said, “Well, I can’t– I’m not getting divorced, so–“ 

Em: [chuckles] This– 

Christine: –we’re still married.” 

Em: This feels like, uh, this whole episode has just been a big ad for that new Elizabeth Olsen movie. Have you seen about it? 

Christine: No, I’m so out of touch. 

Em: Oh, so she dies, and she was married twice. But I guess when– in this movie, when you go to the afterworld, you get to pick like the partner that you want– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –to stay– that you want to spend eternity with, like almost like an actual like marriage, like committing forever. 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: And so the– her first husband who died early versus the guy that she ended up marrying and– 

Christine: [gasps] Is it like a drama or comedy? I’m sorry. I don’t– I– 

Em: I think it’s a ro– like a romcom. 

Christine: [gasps] How fun. 

Em: But, uh, and one of them is Miles Teller. I forget who the other one is. 

Christine: [gasps] [chuckles] I’m getting more and more excited. 

Em: Um– [chuckles] But no, she’s– she has to– The whole movie is her– basically her two husbands from different periods in her life having to compete with each other of like who, who is she gonna want to spend eternity with ’cause she only gets to pick one. And um– 

Christine: Okay. Well, that would suck for like most of America– or most of everybody ’cause I feel like everyone gets divorced and remarried. 

Em: I know. Well, anyway, no, this feels a little like that where she’s like, “Well, what do I do? I’ve got–“ 

Christine: “Well, I guess I’m stuck with you.” 

Em: “My husband came back from the dead, and I’m engaged and–“ 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Well, it gets worse because not only did she have to now– Well, she didn’t have to, but she a– she chose to not press charges and stay in the marriage because she didn’t want to go against her belief system, but also the government said, “Hey, we want all that money back.” 

Em: [groans] Ugh. 

Christine: Not the government– Well, the government did, but also the insurance. Um, the life insurance company said, “We want our money back.” Also the government said, “We want all those payments back we sent monthly,” which was like $200-some bucks a month, which today is like $2,000. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: And so– 

Em: You know, part of her, part of her was thinking like, “Why couldn’t you have just stayed hidden?” [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh, she actually did say– She said she wished at the– She initially said she wished he had never been discovered. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like she wished he could have just lived his life out where he was and not– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –not ruined ev– not ruined, but like really just upset everybody’s life because now, all of a sudden– 

Em: And imagine the, the other new husband is like, “Goddammit.” [chuckles] It’s like– 

Christine: I know. He’s like, “I was so close.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But so remember, he was already– he was remarried to Nancy and– 

Em: With a kid. 

Christine: –had a child with her, and now suddenly that marriage is no longer legal. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And she’s kind of like freaked out obviously and is like, “What is going on?” And, and she’s all worried about his ex and his kids, and she’s like– Well, not his ex, his, his wife. It’s all so confusing. Um, even the boat rental folks reached out and said, “You owe us money for that damaged boat,” which made me laugh. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] So heartless. 

Christine: Like he can’t catch a break. Um, yeah, so it really shattered her life and a lot of people’s– upset a lot of people’s, um, stability. Now, as for the aftermath of all this, um, like I said, his marriage to Nancy was invalidated. Mary Lou did not press charges, um, which she could have pressed charges for bigamy or abandonment um, but she did not. He lost his, uh, sponsorship from Yeoman Archery. 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: Aw. He withdrew from public life. He moved out into a separate place from Nancy. Um, he had very limited contact with both families, even though he was still married to Mary Lou. Uh, but he picked up a job and lived at the YMCA and would just send the monthly payments – both Nancy– 

Em: This poor guy. 

Christine: I know. –Nancy and Mary Lou. Um, national newspapers covered the story extensively. Like what a spectacle, right? Um, just a total spectacle. Come back from the dead with a mustache and an eye patch. Like what in the world? Of course, his attorney argued that his, uh, tumor was what caused this kind of dissociative– They called it something different. They called it like a modern-day schizophrenia, but in reality, it was like dissociative identity disorder– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and/or a tumor impacting his memory, um, and creating like this identity crisis. So the newspapers were all over it, and as part of one of the, um, articles that covered it, uh, he was quoted as saying he was still baffled and confused. He had no clue about his past in Ohio, and maybe God would end up having to sort this out. Well, famous last words because he died within a year. 

Em: [stammering] Wow. 

Christine: Yeah. The cancer from his eye had spread to his liver, and he died at only 39 years old. Um– 

Em: But what a life he lived. 

Christine: I kn– What a– lives he lived. 

Em: He fit a lot in 39 years. Oh my god. 

Christine: He sure did. He sure did. Uh, lots of kids, lots of names, uh, lots of– 

Em: Lots of stories. 

Christine: –stunts, you know. Um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and he maintained until his death that he had no memory of his life as Larry. Um, they actually held two services, one for Larry– 

Em: Oh, wow. 

Christine: –and one for Fritz. And the Fritz memorial was in Omaha, and obviously, the other one was in Akron. Um, just really incredible stuff. Um, he never acknowledged recovering any memory, and if it w– if it were a dissociative fugue state, um, those can actually last months, even years, and so, you know, maybe if he had had five extra years– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –it would have come back to him. ’Cause typically with those situations, within a few months or years when you’re faced with your original family or memories, they come back, like they tend to resurface. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: But he claimed he had zero memory of any of it until his dying day. But again, it was only a year later. Maybe it would have come back to him eventually. Um, he’s either a really good actor, or– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –you know, which is possible, or he really had forgotten somehow. Um, but his case does continue to be cited in lots of discussions whether it’s amnesia, dissociative fugue, mistaken identity, double lives, whether it’s crime story or a psycholog– psychology story. Um, he underwent evaluation at the Mayo Clinic, and doctors have confirmed he did have a tumor removed behind his left eye. He did have radiation treatments, optic nerve damage. They stated amnesia was medically possible. However, they emphasize there’s of course no way to determine whether his amnesia was genuine or fabricated. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: And it’s– And so the findings are inconclusive, and nobody knows. 

Em: That’s wild. 

Christine: The end. [laughs] 

Em: Honestly though, I see why this is one of your favorites. And also please bring back more true crime that we can just banter ’cause that was like– 

Christine: I know. Isn’t it wild and like– 

Em: –a fun crime? I don’t even know if what– if– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –I don’t even know where the crime was, but I guess it’s a mystery. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s a mystery. Exactly. And like somebody commented recently like that I never do serial killers anymore, and I guess I never really thought about it. It’s not intentional. I think I just covered all the really big ones early like– not early, but like, you know, I did Ed Gein, Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy. Like I’ve done all those, and I feel like, um, they’re so pop culture now that I feel like I just tend to gravitate toward the lesser known ones. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But I do– 

Em: Also– 

Christine: I almost did a serial killer today, and then I was like, “No, I wanna do this.” [chuckles] 

Em: That’s fine. 

Christine: So to that person, sorry. 

Em: Well, also I– Like I said with my, my cases, like sometimes there’s ones that like are just a l– there’s a lot of meat to them– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –so it just takes a long time to do. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Like I– There’s some I’m still waiting for you to cover, but I do know that they’re huge cases, and so I’m like, “I don’t–“ 

Christine: What are they? Just as a refresher for my memory. 

Em: Well, some of them are also like– I don’t know what your– if you have updated boundaries, but like, like there’s like the Albert Fish one who like ate children– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –or some shit like that. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: Like I don’t know like where you stand on those. So I, I just– If they don’t show up, then I just– they just don’t show up, you know? 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: I mean, I never know what you’re gonna cover before we get here. So it’s always– 

Christine: Isn’t that fun? 

Em: –a mystery to me, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. Albert Fish, good point. Yeah. There– I guess– I know I’m like, “I’ve covered all the serial killers.” It’s like, “No. No.” 

Em: Well, you’ve covered all the ones that like don’t necessarily have children as the victims. And I know that was one of our– 

Christine: I guess I’ve covered– Yeah, fair enough. 

Em: That was one of our things. 

Christine: I’ve covered all the ones that are like Net– like current Netflix specials, I guess. [laughs] 

Em: Sure. No, when we first started though, it was like, you know, anything that had to do with like kids as the main victims were like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –we didn’t want to touch, so. 

Christine: Yeah, I’ve definitely kind of given up on that because I feel like there are so many cases that cross that boundary, and I’ve kind of– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I think when I– especially when I was pregnant, I got really like in my head about it, and I think I’ve kind of relaxed on that. But I do make sure to announce it early, so people who are still– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –understandably not into it at all– 

Em: Fair enough, yeah. 

Christine: –can, uh, can peace out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: No, this was such a nice, uh, moment to like– 

Christine: This felt like a lighter, easy breezy, you know– 

Em: Throw these in every now and then ’cause that was fun. 

Christine: Yeah. Isn’t that weird? Well, so my, my– Here are my thoughts. Like either– So here are the theories. Either he had some sort of brain tumor or something that impacted his memory. But then why– It was just a weird timing, right, with this boat accident and then like the storm and then he disappeared with a suitcase of cash? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like it just lines up very, you know, perfectly. And then also obviously like you mentioned the theory of maybe he sustained a head injury on the boat or in the boat accident and, um, went overboard, something like that. I mean, I really liked your point of like maybe the briefcase was at risk or whatever, and he like went after it. Who knows? But there was also such a bad storm that the Coast Guard was like,”He would not have survived this–“ 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: “–like if he were out on the water.” Um, so he– 

Em: I don’t know. His story is already so wild that maybe another wild point is that he did survive a storm. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: You know? 

Christine: It’s like– That’s what I thought ’cause I’m like, “Well, surely it wouldn’t be this.” And I’m like, “But surely this man wouldn’t exist at all. And yet here he is on s–“ 

Em: I– 

Christine: “–living on top of a telephone pole with a martini.” I don’t know. 

Em: I think another reason why you like the story so much is because he does remind me of all the, the good chaos that you bring to a table. 

Christine: Oh! Oh, thank you. That’s so nice. I do feel it’s a char– 

Em: And you would obviously survive a storm like that. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I would like accidentally go fishing in the world’s worst storm and then like end up in Omaha somehow. [laughs] 

Em: You, you would do a lot of like, “Well, let’s see. We’re probably fine”s, and then like– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –and then against all odds survive. 

Christine: The Coast Guard– I’m like, “Don’t worry, Coast Guard. I’m okay.” [laughs] 

Em: You know, like it’s– Even just– 

Christine: "I don’t want to bother you. Don’t worry about rescuing." 

Em: It’s such a small example, but you with that fucking– hammering your curtains into the walls. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: Like the way that– You just kinda– 

Christine: Now imagine my exposed brick, trying to hammer shit into that. It’s really not pretty. 

Em: Like you would just find a way to just make it work every time. 

Christine: [laughs] Just like surf the Lake Erie wave during a hurricane. 

Em: [laughs] With your hammer. 

Christine: With my hammer and my briefcase of cash. “Hi, I’m Fritz.” I mean, it’s just like out of control. But then, but then you think, “Well, he’s under financial strain.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, of like 20-some grand, right? And he has a fourth child on the way. Like these are stressors. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And he– he’d always been into like the get rich quick and like skip the labor and the waiting and the– you know, so maybe he was like, “Fuck it. I’ll start new.” You know? Maybe. And like maybe he just knew that he could always point to the brain tumor and say, “Well, I have no memory of this.” And maybe he really was just good at pretending. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Who knows? I mean, it’s r– it’s wild. 

Em: I think that’s a great, that’s a great point. Like I, I could see him knowing that he can swindle people. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And if he wanted to get away and he felt freaked out– or like– or he felt maybe suffocated in some way. Like or– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –he felt just terrified of like what time he had left because he was sick. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: I can see him just being like, “One last hurrah.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “They’re, they’re gonna lose me anyway, so I’ll just beat them to the punch, and I’m just gonna go do something fucking wild.” 

Christine: Right. 

Em: “And I– I’ll get away with it.” 

Christine: I mean, he was dead within five years of that boat accident. And you know, it makes me wonder too, um, when h– when his personality shifted so dramatically, like people who had known him before said like, “That– He did not behave this way when I knew him. Like he didn’t– He did the chicken thing–“ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “–but like he was really chill and reserved. And now he’s like wearing bow ties and like on the radio, and–“ You know, of course, like you said, aren’t you supposed to be under the radar? But then my counterpoint to that is, depending on this guy’s actual personality, like some people cannot help but put themselves in the spotlight. [laughs] Like we see these people– 

Em: That’s fair. 

Christine: –who are like either sociopaths or whatever they are, but they’re just like, “I can’t resist the spotlight.” So I’m not saying that’s him. I’m just saying I think it’s possible that somebody would just like say, “Fuck it. I want to be– I want to ride high while I can and be this–” And maybe he was like– Maybe if it were a brain situation or just like a fugue state out of stress or whatever, maybe it was like, oh, he’d always wanted to be this larger-than-life character, and maybe he knew someone– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –maybe his boss Fritz, maybe, maybe somebody like resonated– 

Em: Or maybe he had like a head injury, and it just made him act impulsive, and that’s why– 

Christine: Or it changed his behavior. Exactly. ’Cause they say that too– I mean, that happens too when people have head injuries. Right. 

Em: I mean, he literally was just getting up and just making speeches that he– nobody expected him to be prepared for. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: I mean, he might have just been like kind of just reacting to things and not knowing– 

Christine: I think he maybe have– had just picked– Yeah, had like changed his personality in a way, and maybe it was just parts of him came out that weren’t there before. And um– 

Em: The chicken stayed though. The chi– [laughs] 

Christine: The chicken never– I mean– And that– You know, there’s nothing worse about the story than that for me. 

Em: He’s– 

Christine: It really is the worst part. 

Em: He always had that hankering. He was like, “Chicken with bones please.” 

Christine: Imagine like when they were doing the pulley system– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and they were like, “Can we get you a sandwich?” And he’s like, “Actually, I’ll just take an entire Kirkland brand roast chicken please.” 

Em: “Extra cartilage.” 

Christine: “Bones and all.” Agh! 

Em: “And don’t worry about coming back to retrieve the skeleton.” 

Christine: Imagine having to– Oh! There won’t be any remnants of it. 

Em: I– 

Christine: Fucking sick, dude. 

Em: I know we’re not– I don’t mean to keep harping on that, but like that– You started there– 

Christine: I did. 

Em: –and it just only got more insane. [laughs] 

Christine: It– I know. It’s just like, what in the world? And so– Yeah. Anyway, it’s just a baffling story because every time I convince myself of one theory, I’m like, “But what about this,” you know? 

Em: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Christine: And so it’s like I don’t know. I don’t know. I don’t think anyone knows. And the fact that his own wife was like, “He doesn’t know who I am.” [chuckles] Like I believe her, you know. 

Em: I put this on par with, um, one of my other favorite stories that you’ve recently covered– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –uh, which was the– 

Christine: Oh, the– 

Em: –the guy who shot himself in the crotch. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Or the– there guy– the guy who got shot in the crotch– 

Christine: Oh, yes. 

Em: –and then nobody knew how he died. I– 

Christine: [gasps] Through the hotel room. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh my god, that was, that was one of the wildest stories ever. 

Em: I really like these wild mysteries that just make no sense. 

Christine: Because it feels like, like if you saw this in a movie or that in a movie, you’d be like, “There’s no way that would ever happen.” 

Em: Yeah, like as a TV producer, if someone was pitching it to me, I’d be like, “That’s not realistic enough.” 

Christine: “That’s ridiculous.” Yeah. It feels like Stranger Than Fiction, which is a– 

Em: Yes! 

Christine: –incidentally one of my top three favorite movies of all time. So uh– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –I’m starting to really pick up the pattern here. [laughs] 

Em: Which this could have also been based off of, yeah. 

Christine: Could have also very well. 

Em: Um, wow. 

Christine: Yeah. It’s just really– And it’s sad too just ’cause like his, his– it really disrupted so many people’s lives, like Nancy and Mary Lou and the kids. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But like it’s just like on purpose? Or not on purpose? Like was he just like going fishing, like you said, because he just felt like it? Or– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: I– It sounds– Truly with him fortunately, and unfortunately, anything is possible. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, I know. Exactly. That’s so true. It’s like weirder things have clearly happened to this guy, so. 

Em: I can’t even think of– Every time I think of a weird thing, I’m like, “No, that’s not the weirdest.” [laughs] 

Christine: Yes. Yeah. 

Em: And that’s just what you’ve reported. I’m sure there’s other things where like he’s still– 

Christine: There are. 

Em: –like a local legend for something else. 

Christine: I kept adding things, and I was like, “Another one. Another one.” And i– There are more. Um, it– Ooh, I know what I was gonna say. The last thing. As I was going through the notes this time, it didn’t occur to me until, until today, until I was going through the story with you, but the, the fact that he didn’t write dates and he never counted his money, I’m like– 

Em: ’Cause he didn’t know what time it was. 

Christine: –maybe he had a– maybe he had like a, a, a brain– an issue with numbers. 

Em: Yeah. There’s– Part of his– 

Christine: Like if he’s not counting his money and he’s not writing the date, and he– People are like, “That’s fine.” Like maybe it was really something he couldn't grasp. 

Em: Numbers. You're totally right. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Wow, that's a good point. I think– 

Christine: And he's also tipping 200%? 

Em: Yeah, he can’t– He’s m– He’s got something going on. 

Christine: I think there’s something up with the numbers too. 

Em: I think he wasn’t faking it. 

Christine: I don’t know that he was faking it either. I feel like there was, there was an element of like– And it’s very rare, but again, like this guy’s clearly one of a– one in a million, so. 

Em: He really– I mean, yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. One in a billion. 

Em: The, the chances are low but not zero, you know. 

Christine: Right? Exactly. Um, to write– Like “autumn of the year” is what he would write. 

Em: Yeah, I think he just– I think, I think it was either– 

Christine: And the bank actually had instructions to call him on the first of every new season. Because they were like, “He– We need to tell him when the new season begins.” 

Em: You know what? 

Christine: So I really think there was like a number thing. 

Em: If he had a head injury, then I love how accessible they were to people who need help. 

Christine: I do too. That was my other thought ’cause I’m like, “Why would they accept this?” And I’m like, “But maybe it was like he literally couldn’t do it, and they were like, ‘Okay, that’s fine.’” 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: You know, like maybe that’s why, so. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: That’s literally just completely my conjecture, just to point out that that occurred to me today. So I don’t want to claim that as fact. But– 

Em: No, I, I think he had a head injury. That’s my– gonna be my guess. 

Christine: That’s what it feels like, doesn’t it? Because– And you know what? Maybe he did go out there to die by suicide. Maybe he really was like stressed and whatever and was like, “I’m, I’m leaving.” I don’t know. Maybe he was too cocky and thought he could go fishing and skip the storm. 

Em: I think, I think he was eith– I think he went out there to maybe hurt himself. Or, or I think he was just– 

Christine: Then why would he like take the money? 

Em: Or I think he was a daredevil, and I think it fell into the water, and he went to go find it and hit his head on the boat or something. 

Christine: Something. 

Em: I don’t know. It’s, it’s one of those two where I– Either way, the, the head in– I don’t know. I don’t know anymore. 

Christine: But then it’s like, “Oh, and he had a tumor too,” and it’s like, “Well, shit.” 

Em: And did he know about the tumor before? 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: Oh, man. 

Christine: I’m not sure. That was the other thing. 

Em: ’Cause that, that would make me think then this was a– an attempt. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: If he didn’t know about the tumor, I think he’s a– just kind of– he made stupid decisions, and– I think you’re right. He didn’t want to leave the money in the car, so he went on the boat. 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: And I think he– It was an accidental hit on his head. That’s– 

Christine: Yeah. Something like that, right? 

Em: It’s, it’s only one of those two branches in my head. I can’t imagine another scenario. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. 

Em: ’Cause on a stormy, on a stormy tide like that, like you’re gonna– if you’re rocking around on that boat, you can hit your head on anything. You could fall in, and you hit your head on the side of the boat. You could– 

Christine: Yeah. But then what was the intention of even getting on the boat? Like was it like just to have a good time? Or was it like to escape or–? 

Em: Maybe. I don’t know. 

Christine: Um– 

Em: Maybe he was trying to esc– I have no idea. I have no fucking clue. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Isn’t it crazy? 

Em: I hate that we’ll never know. 

Christine: And then he ends up in Omaha, Nebraska of all things. 

Em: Yeah. Not what I saw coming. 

Christine: Yeah. So just really baffling all around. 

Em: Great story. 

Christine: Next week, I’ll be back with something really upsetting and horrendous, so enjoy it while it lasts. 

Em: You know what? These palette cleansers are lovely though. 

Christine: Yeah, it was refreshing to have a, um, non-violent crime for once. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Well, I hope everyone is, uh, making safe treks towards their Thanksgiving destinations. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, don’t– 

Christine: Well, are you going to Seattle? Or– 

Em: I am. 

Christine: Sorry, am I supposed to say that? Okay. 

Em: Yeah, I go every year. Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. Okay, good. Are you taking Hankies? Or is he staying? I forget. 

Em: No, Hankies is getting boarded. Um– 

Christine: Oh, he’s getting boarded. Okay. 

Em: ’Cause Thanksgiving is nowhere near as long as Christmas is. 

Christine: Ooh, right. Is he coming to Christmas though, right? To meet the fam? Or not really? 

Em: Tentatively. I don’t, I don’t totally know what the plan is yet. Uh, it seems like our whole holiday schedule is getting kind of thrown around in different directions. So I really don’t know what’s happening with Christmas yet. But, um, Thanksgiving is a– 

Christine: I mean, I don’t either with my own Christmas, and I have a child, so don’t worry. You’ll figure it out. 

Em: Well, we might, we might have Christmas. We might have a short Christmas. We might be postponing Christmas for like a month and doing like a late Christmas. Like it’s, it’s all up in the air right now, so. 

Christine: Well, you got to get your hoverboard, so. 

Em: I know. I, I, I told him I said, “Make– Get me three.” Um– 

Christine: “Get me three.” [laughs] “And get one for Hank.” 

Em: [laughs] Uh, but no, for right now, it– Hank is not coming to Thanksgiving. There’s just little kids and– 

Christine: Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: –other dogs, and my, my aunt is– has some chronic illnesses and– that are– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –not suitable for a dog who likes to jump on people. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, so anyway, it’s uh– He is not welcome, and that’s fine by me. [laughs] 

Christine: [chuckles] Well, I’ll be across the coast in Connecticut, so I’ll wave to you from afar. 

Em: Ah, a Connecticut Thanksgiving sounds very– 

Christine: It, it’s really nice. 

Em: –very nice. 

Christine: Ev– 

Em: Also very pilgrim-y. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah. Sorry, that part’s– Yeah, that part’s not great. 

Em: But, but beautiful. It s-seems beautiful. 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, there’s, um, there’s a lot of nice stuff over there in the fall. It’s, it’s really pretty, so– [sighs] 

Em: I’m very jealous. You’re actually gonna see like changing leaves and stuff. 

Christine: Oh, I’ve had that for two months. Don’t worry. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: It’s already snowed for several days. 

Em: Send me a red leaf sometime. I’m over it over here. 

Christine: Leona collects them, so she’ll send you an entire envelope or ziplock bag. Don’t worry. 

Em: Tell her I want a tree amount of leaves. 

Christine: Okay, good. We have at least three times that downstairs, so. 

Em: Hank would like the trunk part. Um– [laughs] 

Christine: Aw! Hey, does he want a piece of mango slice from a– not mango slice, mango tree slice from a– um, encased in resin from a certain friend called Gina? 

Em: [chuckles] No. 

Christine: No, he doesn’t want that? 

Em: No. But you know what I got really jazzed about? Uh, it’s a late birthday present, very late birthday present for me. But, um, I’ve been telling Alison since we got here– She’s desperate to have a tree in the yard. I don’t fucking want one. Um– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. I remember that. 

Em: But she offered me a healthy compromise, and I get to pick the tree. And the tree– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –that I picked, uh– 

Christine: Lemon? 

Em: –it– No, it’s called a fruit punch tree. And they– It’s– 

Christine: Oh, you would. 

Em: It’s a bunch of stone fruit all on the same tree. It’s like– 

Christine: What? 

Em: –plums and nectarines and shit all on the same tree. 

Christine: Fruit punch tree? I’ve never heard of such a thing. 

Em: Fruit punch tree. 

Christine: Wow, that’s crazy. I’ve never heard of such a thing. 

Em: Yeah, peaches, nectarines, apricots, cherries, and plums. 

Christine: Holy shit, you’re gonna make so much jam. 

Em: I literally– Other than apricots, every single one of those is one of my favorite fruits. 

Christine: Well, there you go. 

Em: Apricots can rot. They can apri– 

Christine: What, really? 

Em: –“apri-rot.” 

Christine: Yeah, I don’t like apricot jam. 

Em: I don’t c– 

Christine: Aprikose [pronounced “ah-pri-koh-suh”]. That’s it in German. 

Em: Oh! Hm. 

Christine: Ugh, everyone would make it marmalade. [retches] 

Em: I can’t stand apricot. They’re– 

Christine: I can’t stand it. 

Em: The skunks can have that one. Um– 

Christine: I like it plain but not in marmalade. 

Em: That’s fair. 

Christine: Thank you. 

Em: I won’t send you any, so. 

Christine: Thanks. 

Em: [laughs] You’re welcome. 

Christine: You’re gonna send me a whole box of just apricots. Thanks. 

Em: Just, just– 

Christine: Is it apricot [pronounced “ape-ri-cot”] or apricot [pronounced “ap-ri-cot”]? 

Em: I say apricots [pronounced “ap-ri-cots”], but. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: Anyway, me and my fruit punch tree, uh, wave happy holidays to you. 

Christine: Uh, thank you. I will wave back and hopefully snag a few on my way, so. 

Em: And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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