E469 Nostalgic Lip Landlines and Dancing Ghosts

TOPICS: THE MOSS MANSION, THE MURDER OF ARTEMUS OGLETREE

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It’s episode 469 and we’re stepping into the fiery spirituality. Today Em takes us back to cowboy country for the haunted Moss Mansion which feels like it was built in the Sims. Then Christine brings us another hotel room mystery with the murder of Artemus Ogletree which leaves us with more questions than answers. And do you think ghosts want the lights on? …and that’s why we drink!

Etsy Links:
https://www.etsy.com/shop/TheXtineFiles
https://www.etsy.com/shop/foragerscraftshop

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Transcript

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[intro music] 

[instead of the usual video of Em and Christine, there is an image of the And That’s Why We Drink logo with fog moving slowly across the bottom of the screen.] 

Christine: Hello and welcome to And That’s Why We Drink, your true crime and paranormal favorite. Uh, I’m Christine, and that’s– 

Em: The other one. 

Christine: [chuckles] I’m like, why am I making this a Mad Lib? That’s not how this works. 

Em: It’s me, but also like weirdly blurry? 

Christine: Whoa, yeah. You’re blurry. 

Em: Is that better? 

Christine: Actually, yeah. 

Em: Okay, great. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Yeah, I’m better now. Um– 

Christine: A ghostly film– 

Em: I know. I– 

Christine: –above your face. 

Em: It was actually a spirit was just standing in front of the computer. It was really fucking rude. 

Christine: That’s so fucking rude. 

Em: I hate when they do that. I literally– I can’t even get into it. So anyway, , , um– 

Christine: Stop yelling at them. They live in your house, and they’re invisible. That’s so scary. 

Em: [chuckles] Why do you drink, Christine? Besides the horrors that are our nation. 

Christine: Oh. [chuckles] 

Em: Unless you want to throw that in. 

Christine: I mean, I do want to throw that in. Um, things are rough and scary, and– So I was flying back into Cincinnati, uh, with my brother, and [chuckles] it was like that snowstorm was coming in– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and we’re on the plane, and I just glance up, and it’s– I mean, it’s something I’ll never forget, glancing up and seeing everybody’s screen, whether it was CNN, Fox News, MSNBC, whatever. And it’s like on the plane, everyone’s watching. It’s dark out. There’s like this huge blizzard happening. I’m seeing like the news headlines from Minneapolis on every screen in different like contexts, and it was just one of those like, “Oh, okay, the world is– This is a history book–“ 

Em: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: “–a big history book situation.” Um– 

Em: I– It feels, uh– I mean, with every day, uh– I feel like every day I wake up and say, “Oh, it feels like we’re in a dystopian wasteland.” But then the next day happens, and I go, “I mi– I miss yesterday.” [chuckles] So. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, “Again? Now what?” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “Now what am I waking up to?” Um, yeah, it’s really jarring. I mean, I’ve been following astrology pretty closely lately, and I do feel like things are shifting rapidly. Um, in case you’re wondering, uh, Neptune– 

Em: I, I would love to hear what the stars have to say ’cause I’m so over what the newscasters have to say, so. 

Christine: Well, great ’cause the Neptune is– uh, Neptune is entering , um– So it’s been in [chuckles] Pisces for 14 years, which is a very dreamy state, and, um, Neptune governs like spirituality and, um, like that kind of like, um, drive, uh, to– I think it’s like a drive to change the collective or to spiritually grow and get people on your side. Either way, it’s now entering, um, Aries, fire sign, and the last time that this happened was, uh, about 150 years ago, the first day of the Civil War [chuckles] in the US. So , um– 

Em: Well, ain’t that funny? Ain’t that something? 

Christine: Literally the day that– the day– Then that– That’s tomorrow, by the way, so– as, as we record this on January 27. 

Em: [chuckles] Sick. Okay. 

Christine: Yeah, and it’s gonna be there for 14 more years. So– 

Em: Mm! 

Christine: –we’ll see. But this is a time. It’s a time to step into– It’s a good thing ’cause it’s like we’re stepping out of a Pisces kind of like dreamy like spirituality into an active fiery like resistance type spirituality. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, and you know, if you’re, if you’re– if you’ve been doing the work they say, you’re on the right– this, this year, jump aboard. We’re, [chuckles] we’re fighting the fascists. Okay? 

Em: Yeah, we’re fighting the fascists. Yeah. Um– Yeah, it’s, it’s a rough one. Have you been finding joy at all anywhere? Have you– What’s something good that’s happened? I feel like we– 

Christine: Thank you for asking that. That’s a nice question. Well, you know, actually, this is probably a good time to segue into this real quick. Um, one of my– I’ve been trying to find outlets, right, as we all are. Um– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and I ended up making a drawing that I’m turning into a sticker. And I’ve decided after all the Minneapolis um, news this week that I’m going to go ahead and sell them. I wasn’t sure if I was going to, but um, they’re a little, little um, Hot Stuff Devil um, sitting on an ice cube and it says, “Abolish ICE.” 

Em: Perfect. 

Christine: And um, I figured I’m just going to um, donate the proceeds to– I, I have it already up on my Etsy page, but it’s– The link isn’t public yet. I wasn’t sure if I was gonna do it, but this just felt like the time to mention it. So if you want to go, uh, order one, I only have, I think, a couple hu– I have like 100 or 200. Um, if anyone’s interested, I’m donating the proceeds, um, and hopefully– Oh, and hey, your girlfriend now has an Etsy too. 

Em: She does, yep. 

Christine: This is all– This is crazy. 

Em: Uh, it’s called Forager's Craft. She’s making her own, uh– 

Christine: [sighs] Beautiful. 

Em: –jewelry these days, and she’s doing a very good job. She’s been– 

Christine: Well, I keep wanting to wear the earrings to show it– them off, and then I’m like, “Oh, I have these headphones on. I can’t really wear the earrings.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: But anyway, they’re beautiful. I ordered some. Um– 

Em: No, thank you for the shout-out. 

Christine: Man, she’s talented, dude. 

Em: Yeah. So people, uh– She has been gone for what feels like, I think, a year now. 

Christine: Seriously, she came out swinging. 

Em: But, uh, she said, “Oh, while I’m gone, I guess I’m also gonna open an entire jewelry business.” So she’s been , um– When she’s not watching the baby, she has been going to this area in Charlotte where she’s been able to make all this stuff and , um– But anyway, she’s, she’s doing a really good job. And if you would like a set of earrings or a bracelet or what– she’s very good at all of it. She’s– It’s specifically woodworking stuff, but– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Um, Forager's Craft if you would like to go follow her on wherever you would like or go– 

Christine: And you should. 

Em: Mainly Etsy. If you would like to get something from her, it’s on Etsy. 

Christine: Yeah. And it– They’re beautiful. Um, and she has a really good Instagram that, uh– and TikTok, I think, that shows, um, how she makes them and stuff. It’s really cool. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, yeah. I didn’t– I can’t find the p– the, the draft of the posts, but I do have, um, already a donation page set up, um, for the money that I’m gonna make– uh, hopefully, if anyone buys any of these, I’m gonna donate the proceeds. So I don’t know. I don’t know anymore what to do. This is like my feeble attempt, right, at like helping. But, um, you know, I think also everything changes weekly, so I don’t really know which non-profit yet. 

Em: I don’t even know what you’re– what’s gonna be going on by the time– 

Christine: I know. I know. So I’m gonna hold off on even mentioning which nonprofit yet, but I will put it in the listing. Um, you can go to TheXtineFiles. I mean, so that’s what I’m trying to do, Em. I’m like, what can I con– how can I contribute, trapped in my house? I guess I can maybe I– draw something silly. I don’t know. 

Em: Sure, yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: That's my contribution. 

Em: Is, is that your– the joy you found this week? 

Christine: Yeah, it’s– it feels like a little, you know, a little control in a, in an uncontrollable world, so– 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: Yeah. What about you? Are you okay? [chuckles] I mean, not really– 

Em: [chuckles] No. 

Christine: –but, you know, in general. 

Em: No, no, no, I’m not okay. Um, what– I have been trying to you know distract myself with things, and so I went to a Comic Con yesterday. 

Christine: Mm! 

Em: I got to meet, um, a bunch of, uh, people who worked on like Nickelodeon shows, which I thought you’d be interested in. 

Christine: Oh, cool. 

Em: Um, I met, um, Craig Bartlett from– 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: –Hey Arnold!. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Did you ever meet him? I don’t know. I– 

Christine: You know, I met him once. 

Em: In my mind at Nickelodeon, you just like– he– you just had dinner with him or something. 

Christine: He wasn’t there because he wasn’t working anymore. I think he was retired when I worked there. Um, as far as I knew, he wasn’t there. So I, I met him once, and I think we follow each other on Instagram, but that’s it. [chuckles] 

Em: Nice. Um, no, for those who don’t know, Craig Bartlett was, uh, like the illustrator– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –and I think– Did he create these shows too? 

Christine: He created it. I think he created it, yeah. 

Em: Um, for like Hey Arnold!– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –and, um, I didn’t know this, but he also drew Cynthia from the Rugrats. [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh, that– It fits. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, it fits. 

Em: Um, but he– So I guess they had records, like vinyl records of the, um, Hey Arnold! soundtrack from the first season– 

Christine: That’s cool. 

Em: –I think first season. 

Christine: That’s cool. 

Em: And so, um, I didn’t– Like one of my favorite things to listen to on YouTube is like ambient like New York jazz music– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –which is basically Hey Arnold! music. And so– 

Christine: Oh, [chuckles] like that [sings a few notes, chuckling]. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Em: So I, I got , um– I got the record, and he told me that it was like the last one that they had in their, in the– their personal collection– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –in his– or I don’t know if it was his personal collection or like the store. It was like the last vinyl that they were selling. 

Christine: Wow! 

Em: And so I got him to sign it for me. 

Christine: Do you have it? [gasps] 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: The m– Hey Arnold!, the Music, Volume 1 is kickass, dude. And he signed it, “To Em”! 

Em: Yeah. And then I also , um– I got some other autographs. I met the people, the– I don’t know if it, if it’s one woman or three women, but someone who voices The Powerpuff Girls was there, which was fun– 

Christine: [groans] 

Em: –so I got to say hi to her too. 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: Um, anyway, it was, it was fun. I bought some “tchotchkas.” You know I love a little “tchotch.” Um– 

Christine: Was it in town, or did you have to leave town? 

Em: No, it was in town. Um, that was, that was the highlight. I was like, “I need an escape,” and I looked up like things that are going on, and I was like, “Hell yeah, I’ll go to a Comic Con.” 

Christine: Hell yeah. 

Em: Um, so yeah, that’s a good reason why I drink. Uh, the bad reasons why I drink are the same reasons everyone’s drinking. So– 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: I don’t know. Everyone, just watch out for your neighbors, and [sighs] I don’t know. It’s– 

Christine: Buckle up. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Shit’s getting real. Really real. 

Em: Um, [chuckles] any, any announcements to make before we get into me telling a, a ghost story? I feel so– This feels so like silly to tell a ghost story right now given the– I feel like– 

Christine: It’s not any sillier than going to a Comic Con or drawing a picture. 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: I mean, what else are we supposed to do, you know? 

Em: I know. Just keep it moving, I guess. Uh, is there anything we need to announce? 

Christine: Um, I don’t think so. Not that I know of. Um, I mean, we’re kind of like, I, I hesitate to say this but like somewhat ahead for the first time. 

Em: Great. 

Christine: Are we ahead? By like a week– [chuckles] 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: –but still feels, feels pretty– It feels like we’re ahead a little bit. Um, so it’s kind of like– I don’t know. I’m just kind of grooving, ready to hear what you’ve got. 

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Em’s Story – The Moss Mansion 

Em: This is a quickie. This is from Billings, Montana. 

Christine: Ooh, cowboy country again. 

Em: I don’t know what’s going on ’cause I’m actively trying to find different, different locations. 

Christine: Maybe it’s the algo. 

Em: Maybe. I’m, I’m trying to find different areas of the nation and elsewhere. 

Christine: Well, spoiler alert, mine is kind of a– uh, now that I’m thinking about it, also a repeating [chuckles] pattern– 

Em: Oh, really? 

Christine: –of what I’ve been doing, so. [chuckles] 

Em: Well, I think, I think you’re right that it might be my algorithm because I have been– I don’t even know if like it’s– if I feel like traveling lately, but I keep planning this stupid Montana trip to get through my leftover states, so I can hit all 50 states. 

Christine: [gasps] That’s right. It’s on the brain. 

Em: And Billings, Montana is– Well, Montana period. But Billings is one of the places I’m looking at. 

Christine: Cool. 

Em: So anyway, maybe I’ll stop by this house if I ever go. This is the Moss Mansion, and it was built in 1902, uh, for the Moss family if you can believe it or not, the Moss Mansion. 

Christine: [chuckles] Actually, like I thought maybe it’s just really green and mossy. 

Em: I just thought it was covered in shit. 

Christine: Really, really verdant and squishy. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Oh my god. Wait, can I tell a quick anecdote? One time in element– 

Em: Half a sentence in. Yes, absolutely. 

Christine: Before I, before I even get your yes or no, I’m like, “Can I–“ Before I take a breath, “Can I tell you a story as I continue–?” 

Em: “Actually, let’s, let’s hold it right there.” 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, no. No, let me, let me, uh, let me regale you. But it was elementary school, and my brother did a diorama, and, uh, we had bought that like fake moss at , um– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –at Michael’s– 

Em: Michael’s. 

Christine: Yeah, and– 

Em: Michelle’s? 

Christine: –and he– Michelle’s, and he came home, and we didn’t realize at first, but he had this horrible reaction. Like his eyes swelled and stuff. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: And we were like, “What’s going on?” Turns out he’s allergic to that fucking moss from Michael’s. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: So if you have like strong allergies, be really careful ’cause that shit is like spores, you know, and it’ll get in your system. 

Em: Good to know. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I actually wouldn’t know. I’ve never touched fake or real moss, I guess. 

Christine: It doesn't feel nice really. 

Em: Okay. I– 

Christine: It’s like just moist, you know, always. 

Em: Mm. That, that, that just really sealed the deal for me. I’m not doing it. 

Christine: That rules it out immediately. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: Mm. What, what other words could we use so I never touch it? Okay. 

Christine: Yeah. So if you’re doing a diorama, maybe use like tissue paper instead or something, you know? 

Em: Yeah, yeah. Just a s– like a, like a textured spray. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Spray paint. 

Christine: Oh, okay. Yeah, that’s cool, too. 

Em: The piping, the piping thing from cakes. 

Christine: Oh, but what are you putting in it? Frosting? [chuckles] 

Em: Really thick paint or frosting and really just– 

Christine: Don’t put paint in there because then someone’s gonna eat it. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Okay, never mind. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Listen, don’t let us tell you how to make a diorama. You– Believe in yourself. 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. 

Christine: Okay? 

Em: Uh, the Moss Mansion, here we go. Okay. Moss Mansion. 1902, it was built for Mr. and Mrs. Moss, but, uh, their names are Preston and Martha, although they went by PB and Mattie, Mattie. 

Christine: Mattie Moss? 

Em: Isn’t that cute? 

Christine: That is. 

Em: I’m telling you, there is such a significant rise in my chance of marrying somebody if there is an alliteration if I were to change my name. 

Christine: Absolutely. 

Em: Or if they were to change their name. 

Christine: So but for you it would be E, which doesn’t quite have an alliteration. 

Em: It’s a toughie. It’s a toughie. 

Christine: ’Cause it’s sort of a– What– How– 

Em: Also– 

Christine: It would have to be like Em Emberson. [chuckles] 

Em: Yeah, it would have to– It would be actually a really sad gross name, I think. Um, I think I– [chuckles] It would not sound right to me. 

Christine: Hey, if your name’s Em Emberson– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –Em thinks you have a really gross name. I like it personally. I think Emberson is a cool-ass name. 

Em: I– 

Christine: But what about Emerson? Em Emerson. 

Em: Maybe. 

Christine: Emothy– 

Em: I thi– 

Christine: Okay. Hey– Wai– Hey, wait, wait, wait. How does this hit you? Emothy Emerson. 

Em: I think if there was Emothy and it’s– and then the next– the last name started with a “Th-“. Emothy Thalvaloa, maybe. 

Christine: No, ’cause then– 

Em: No? 

Christine: –anyone with a lisp is gonna have a real– with a lisp is gonna have a hard time. Emothy Th– ’Cause then it would be– 

Em: I would, I would ar– 

Christine: Emothy Thal– [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: So wait, that would be Emothy Thurgood. Try saying that. 

Em: Thurgood? [laughs] 

Christine: Well, I’m trying to think of a “Th-“ name. 

Em: Oh, Emothy Thurgood. Yeah, that’d be really s– 

Christine: It sounds terrible. 

Em: That would be really [said with a lisp] stupid– 

Christine: Emothy Thurgood. [laughs] 

Em: –is what it would be. [laughs] 

Christine: It sounds like you don’t– 

Em: Oh, you’re totally right. 

Christine: Yeah, it sounds like you have a speech impediment, which is fine, but like I don’t know if that’s what you’re going for. 

Em: No, you’re right. It does sound, uh, not like how I would want it to sound. I– 

Christine: Emothy Thurgood. [laughs] 

Em: I don’t know why I thought that. I don’t know what– I don’t– I think, I think my name is the only name– Maybe that’s why I’m appreciative of alliteration because I know mine just won’t work. 

Christine: What about Emothy Edmonton? Emothy Emerson? I think it’s– it works great. 

Em: I think you’re a psychopath. That’s what I think. I– There’s no way. 

Christine: Well, okay, you’re the one who wants to name your na– self “Emothy Thalamander.“ [laughs] 

Em: No, I don’t. [laughs] Okay, let’s start– Let’s, let’s go with yours. Like Christine– Anything with a “k” sound is gonna sound incredible with yours. 

Christine: No, it’s not ’cause if it’s Christine Kacker– 

Em: You’re– 

Christine: –Kakeroski. [laughs] 

Em: –immediately wrong. [chuckles] What? [laughs] You know what? It sounds better than Emothy Thurgood, I’ll tell you that. 

Christine: What if it was Christine Christensen, then I sound like I’ve literally invented the church. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So, you know– 

Em: It’s like, “It’s actually short for Jesus Christ.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah, “It’s short for my g– my dad is God.” Sorry. 

Em: [laughs] “My dad, the inventor of [unintelligible] and Jesus Christ himself.” 

Christine: Christine Christensen is insane, but anyway. 

Em: I think, I think you have a better shot with the alliteration than I do. 

Christine: Well, too bad. My husband’s name is Lampugnale, and I fucked it up. 

Em: You got hurt there. 

Christine: I fucked it all up. 

Em: You got, you got burned. That’s okay. 

Christine: [softly] Damn. 

Em: It’s– You know what? 

Christine: Speaking of burned, Emberson is a cool last name, and I will die on this hill. 

Em: I agree with you. I just don’t think it’s for my name, but I think– 

Christine: Em Emberson. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah. Like f– ’Cause also then it just sounds like a, “a-member-son.” 

Christine: Okay. Emothy Emberson. 

Em: I think it’s time to call it quits. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, fine. 

Em: I um, I do actually– I know someone from college. Her sister’s name was Ember, and I was like, “That’s fucking sick.” 

Christine: That’s a kick-ass name, although I thought we were giving it a rest. 

Em: Okay, you’re right. Okay, sorry. Yeah. Okay. 

Christine: No, you’re right. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I would have talked about it for another hour. 

Em: Back to the best name I’ve ever heard though: Mattie Moss, hello. 

Christine: Very good. 

Em: That– 

Christine: Martha Moss, Mattie Moss. Very good. 

Em: No notes. Um, her and her husband, so they ended up getting this mansion built for them. It cost $105,000 then in 1902, which is now basically $4 million. Yikes. 

Christine: Ooh, pricey. 

Em: And fun fact, it was designed by the same person who designed the Plaza Hotels and the original Waldorf Astoria. 

Christine: Oh, okay. 

Em: So I feel like that alone– 

Christine: Fancy. 

Em: –he was like, “It’s gonna be $4 million regardless of size.” 

Christine: Yeah, base level. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. “My, my starting pay is $4 million.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, this mansion had 28 rooms, which– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –what I– here’s what I don’t like. I’m so over this. When they don’t tell you what type of rooms immediately, I want to know bedroom/bathroom situation. 

Christine: I don’t like the “rooms.” We’re gonna have to like– 

Em: Too vague. 

Christine: Yeah, specif– I agree ’cause a room could mean anything frankly. 

Em: If someone said 28 rooms and 26 of them are like pantries, I’m like, “Well, I don’t fucking want that.” 

Christine: Yes, you do. ’Cause if they’re full– 

Em: [chuckles] I do want that. 

Christine: –you’re gonna have a good day. [laughs] 

Em: You caught me immediately. Yeah. 

Christine: But I understand your point. Like are they all bathrooms? 

Em: Like yeah. 

Christine: ’Cause again, that– this is like out of The Sims all of a sudden, but you know what I mean? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Like, yeah, if 28 rooms, like which rooms are– Yeah. [chuckles] 

Em: It’s, it’s Chauncey Bliss’s favorite mansion that ever existed. 

Christine: [laughs] It’s 28 pantries and 28 bathrooms. 

Em: [laughs] Um, so there’s 28 rooms, , um– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –including parlors (that’s plural), libraries (plural), sitting rooms, garden rooms, a ballroom, and a solarium. 

Christine: Ooh! Wait, what’s the difference between a solarium and a garden room? That feels like the same thing, but maybe not. 

Em: Fascinating question. I don’t– 

Christine: Hm. 

Em: ’Cause then also throw in a greenhouse, I’m really fucking confused. 

Christine: That’s right. And , um– 

Em: And I– And they have enough room it seems for all three, but they’re just called garden rooms pretty much, um. 

Christine: Mm, sounds, sounds lovely though. 

Em: [sighs] I’m over it actually. Um– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. 

Em: I would– 

Christine: Me too. 

Em: Honestly, if we have a solarium, why the fuck isn’t there a planetarium? That’s what I’m thinking. 

Christine: Oh, shit. 

Em: You got $4 million, you’re not gonna get yourself a planetarium? 

Christine: Very good question. 

Em: Not that hard, I bet. 

Christine: Not impressed. Not impressed. 

Em: If I had $4 million, I’d imagine a plan– a planetarium is much more likely to happen, you know. 

Christine: That’s, that’s the first thing you’re gonna buy. 

Em: Certainly not the tenth. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: So the home also had, and this is a quote ’cause I didn’t even want to mess with– I didn’t even want to mess with the quote. The home also had “heated indoor plumbing, an electric bell system, and a very early version of, um, a rotary phone,” which– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –rotary phones weren’t even gonna be popular for the next 20 years. 

Christine: Jeez. 1902 this was? 

Em: Yeah. Who are you calling when no one else has a fucking phone? 

Christine: But that is so like McMansion coded, right? Like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –what are you even gonna do with that thing? Whatever that like extra weird thing you bought– 

Em: It’s like, “I have a phone. I’ll wait 20 years until you can get back to me.” 

Christine: Ye– Yes. I– Yes, “I’ll leave you a voicemail.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Someday, you’ll get a voice mailbox, and you’ll know what I’m saying.” Um, but– 

Em: Like what was your phone number? 1? 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: It’s just stupid. [laughs] 

Christine: “Dial my friend, 1.” Yeah, you could probably talk to like Alexander Graham Bell or whoever the fuck like. And that– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And– Or Thomas Edison, you know, or whoever the fuck did this? Franklin? 

Em: Uh– 

Christine: Who– One of these fucking old men did this. 

Em: I literally– I could not agree more. It’s– I think at some point it’s just– Like I would love– With, with my adult money, I would love to buy the clear build-it-yourself landline phone we all wanted as a kid. 

Christine: I love those. 

Em: And yet, why? Who am I calling? I don’t have– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I don’t have– I would, I would want the experience of us both being on a landline and twirling the cord. 

Christine: But do you want to know something? 

Em: Mm? 

Christine: I think some people are trying to bring those back. You know why? 

Em: Hm? 

Christine: I think people are trying to get off the so– off the– like people are going Luddite mode, some people, and they’re getting like ph– landlines and like flip phones. Like people are kind of detaching from– 

Em: Okay. I get it. 

Christine: Some people, not I, certainly, but some people are detaching from, from the phones. I’m not quite there yet, but , um– 

Em: Maybe I get one then. 

Christine: So maybe s– maybe sooner, may– Hey, why don’t you get one? Why don’t you dial 1? 

Em: See what happens? 

Christine: See what happens. 

Em: It’ll get me to– 

Christine: See if Moss Mansion opens up. 

Em: –Billings, Montana. You type in 1; Montana’s on the line. 

Christine: And then you’re ready to rock and roll. 

Em: I think you’re on to something. 

Christine: Thank you. 

Em: If landlines do become more popular, just know that’s exactly– You don’t even have to question which phone I’m getting. 

Christine: I’ll be getting one. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. I actually still have the lip phone– the lips phone– 

Em: No, you don’t. 

Christine: –from when I was– My stepmom– 

Em: Shut the fuck up. 

Christine: It was my stepmom’s [chuckles] in the ‘70s, and then she gave it to me. And it used to be in my bedroom growing up, and I just was always so embarrassed by it. 

Em: Why? 

Christine: And now I’m like d– ’Cause I don’t know. I was like a kid, and I was like, “What is this weird mouth phone she put in my room?” 

Em: No, that was so iconic. 

Christine: Um, but now I wish I had it back. It’s at her house. I should go get it. 

Em: I– That reminds me of like the peanut M&M phone or something. I feel like there was a phone that the pe– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –the M&M’s were somehow involved in. 

Christine: Well, remember my SpongeBob phone where you open– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And remember then I left it at TSA, and they said, “Name–“ 

Em: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: “Name one thing in your bag, and we’ll give it back to you.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Which by the way, what a wild choice for a TSA question. He’s, he’s like, “Just give me one thing in there.” And I was like, “Shoes.” And he’s like, “Mm, too vague.” And I was like, “A SpongeBob landline corded phone,” and he was like, “Okay, here’s your bag.” 

Em: You know what would be even crazier is if you really were just trying to steal someone’s bag and that was the one guess you got to take. 

Christine: That’s what you said last time– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and I still find it absolutely crazy. You’re right. If that were– If that had happened, I mean, this is also like five years ago. I just remember that that was your exact response– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and I was like, “That’s a really good point.” If I had just guessed that at the Cincinnati Airport somebody was toting one of those bad boys around and I was right? Treasure. 

Em: I, I do have a, a side, a side announcement for you is that I– you might be on to something with the psychic thing, me being– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: ’Cause– 

Christine: I told you. 

Em: –somebody [sighs] at Comic Con was doing the Kreskin ESP. I got every one right. 

Christine: You’re sick, dude. I told you. Listen, I’ve been telling Em for years that Em is psychic. They are– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: There’s like– We’ve done those like Kreskin things, and Em gets like a freaky amount right. Sometimes like Em will go to the bathroom, we’ll put like something underneath a cup, and Em comes– Oh, we put the– That’s what it was. The fish. The, the fortune telling fish. 

Em: I, I was, I was told to leave the room while Eva and Christine tried to hide something, and then I had to guess where it was, and I, I– 

Christine: My god. 

Em: –a little too confidently walked right in and went, “It’s obviously right there,” and it– I was right. [laughs] 

Christine: While eating like a piece of celery, and I was like, “All right, get out of here.” You like chomped on it and– 

Em: The best things in life happen to me when I’m eating celery, I’ll tell you that. 

Christine: It really felt like it was out of some sort of a sitcom, but wow. Okay, so you got them all right. 

Em: Mm-hmm, I did. 

Christine: Shit. 

Em: And even the people there were like, “Were we angling it?” [chuckles] Like they were like, “No one’s done that.” [laughs] 

Christine: Okay. What are we doing with this? Are we, are we, are we doing anything with this? What am– 

Em: No… 

Christine: What number am I thinking of? [laughs] 

Em: Uh, 38. I don’t fucking know. 

Christine: 3, so you were close. 

Em: I uh, I d– I don’t know what it– I don’t think there’s anything to do. I think it’s just a fun, fun story. I’m not– 

Christine: No, no. 

Em: ’Cause like then what? Then I tell people I’m, I’m psychic? And then all of a sudden, everyone’s trying to test me, and I’ll get everything wrong. Statistically, I will get most things wrong. So then I just don’t look psychic, so then like then it’s not true. 

Christine: What color am I thinking? [laughs] 

Em: Purple? Fuck, I don’t know. 

Christine: See? This is– I know. No, you’re right. It is like– You can’t really approach it like that. You got to kinda use it– 

Em: For evil, you’re right. 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, totally. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, use it and like in your own prof– as a tool. I don’t know. You could probably– Mm, I don’t know. 

Em: I– 

Christine: It feels like something you should pursue. 

Em: [chuckles] If I knew how. I’m not– 

Christine: If I were fucking psychic– I’ve been trying, okay? But if I were actually psychic, naturally, I would be all over that shit. 

Em: I think if Kreskin were alive, him and I could do something interesting, but other than that– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –I think I– The window is closed. Um– 

Christine: Channel him, baby. He’s up there. 

Em: I’m– 

Christine: You got the goods. 

Em: He knows. I’m feeling him. 

Christine: Channel him in. 

Em: I feel him. 

Christine: He’s right here. 

Em: He feels me. Yeah, we’re, we’re in it. Yeah. Um, anyway, that was my update ’cause I remember it– It happened yesterday, and I was like, “If Christine were here, I would just– I would not hear the end of this. 

Christine: You heard me, “I knew it!” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Okay, so they– It’s a big fucking mansion, and this couple lives there. Um, the Moss family, they actually moved to Billings right when Billings was brand new. They were like, “There’s this new town. Let’s go just take it over.” So they moved to Billings. They are immediately a very successful power couple. Um, PB Moss himself was a very, uh, important banker. He, uh, massively helped develop the town. He had ranching businesses with, with like tens of thousands of animals. Um, and that led to him developing the city’s first meat packing plant. He also founded Billings’s, uh, first heating plant, water, and power plant, its first– I, I think its first telephone company. He was the president of the town’s– 

Christine: Well, yeah, ’cause he needed a phone– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –at his house. [chuckles] 

Em: He was like, “I got this thing, and it doesn’t work, so let’s throw a power line up there.” 

Christine: Yeah. Instead of being like, “I don’t need that.” He’s like, “Actually, now I got to build a whole industry behind my new landline phone.” 

Em: You know, if he’s not here to answer it for me, it’s a bit chicken or the egg. Like, did you start the company– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: –and now you need a phone? Or do you have a phone– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: –and so you need to start the company? 

Christine: Although I do understand if someone like wanted you to start a telephone company, you’re like, “Well, I guess I might as well get one at my house of these newfangled bad boys.” 

Em: Maybe he had it on display in his home as like a, like a World’s Fair exhibit thing– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –where he was like, “People, come on over to my mansion, and let me show you this technology you should buy.” 

Christine: “It’s in the solarium.” Uh– 

Em: “It’s in–“ [chuckles] You know it is. 

Christine: And all of a sudden, it went, “Brrrring!”, and he’s like, [whisper-yelling] “What the hell is that?” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: ’Cause they didn’t know what it was. [chuckles] 

Em: I mean, in a room that’s meant to be so peaceful– 

Christine: [groans] 

Em: –like that had to be jarring in 1902. 

Christine: It’s like– Yeah, a bell all of a sudden ringing. 

Em: [laughs] And if it’s not in the solarium, by the way, what an idiot. 

Christine: Big mistake. 

Em: Where else would you want to sit and talk on the phone? 

Christine: Huge mi– Maybe in one of the pantries. 

Em: I think so. 

Christine: ’Cause that’s where the Oreos are. [chuckles] 

Em: Honestly. And you had to– We’re connected by a cord. You might as well be near the food. 

Christine: Do you remember we used to sit in a pantry, at least I did, [laughs] and snack? Yeah, on the phone. 

Em: I remember being like, “Hang on, I have to go get food,” and then you would just put the phone on the floor and just– 

Christine: Tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap, tap. Yep. 

Em: [laughs] Um, anyway, so he did all those things. On top of it, he was also the president for the town’s first national bank. He was in a bunch of Masonic circles. He participated in the Billings school board. Um, he helped build other local companies, including a sugar factory, a college– 

Christine: Hell yeah. 

Em: –a toothpaste factory, the town’s irrigation system. 

Christine: [chuckles] ’Cause the, ’cause the sugar took off, he’s like, “Shit.” 

Em: [chuckles] “Look–“ 

Christine: “Now we gotta do a toothpaste.” 

Em: I know ADHD when I see it. And this– 

Christine: I, I mean, honestly, I’m really relating to this guy, except for the Masonic part. 

Em: He’s like, “Oh, I’m just gonna build the town’s irrigation system. The bank is getting too boring.” 

Christine: “While I’m at it–“ [chuckles] Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. He also founded and owned the first printing company in the area, which ended up becoming The Billings Gazette, which I used for my notes. 

Christine: No, that’s so full circle. 

Em: I know. I– He ended up– 

Christine: Billings Gazette is a kick-ass name. 

Em: Isn’t it? Although, I– I’m not even gonna really try to go there, but you know, I love alliteration, so I, I prefer when it’s like the Billings– something. 

Christine: I was just thinking that. The Bill– um, The Billings Bulletin. 

Em: [groans] Oh, you know, I love a bulletin. 

Christine: But I love a gazette ’cause it just– the name– the Z honestly is kind of a wild card in my book. It’s like, “All right, but if we’re throwing a Z, I guess you can play with the first letter alliteration.” 

Em: The only reason I love my last name is because of the Z. 

Christine: It’s excellent. I know. I, I– It really– 

Em: If, if you have a Z in your name, you’re so lucky. 

Christine: I know. It’s so, so cool. I’m jealous. 

Em: Um, and I agree. Gazette just sounds like old 1940s. [old-fashioned newsies accent] “Heya, buddy,” kind of– 

Christine: I just gotta take a look– I gotta get my papers on that gazette. 

Em: [old-fashioned New York newsie accent] “I work for The Gazette, you know.” 

Christine: [old-fashioned New York newsie accent] “Don’t you know?” 

Em: Oh, I bet you could probably– If you wanted to start a subscription to The Billings Gazette, I’m sure you could just take mine since I’m, uh, subscribed to every newspaper in the nation. Um– 

Christine: I’ll just tell Rocket Money to go on over to yours– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –and send it my way, you know. 

Em: Just swap it out, yeah. 

Christine: Just start forwarding them. 

Em: What was your, um, hometown’s newspaper growing up? 

Christine: Uh, Cincinnati.com. You’re famous– No, I’m kidding. 

Em: I– Was it really? 

Christine: No, it was The Cincinnati Enquirer. But so I think you may have also subscribed to that one– 

Em: That sounds familiar. 

Christine: –so it’s nothing surprising. Um, what was the Fre– Was there a Fredericksburg Flyer? 

Em: I would love for there to be a Fredericksburg Flyer. Maybe I start that. Um– 

Christine: I was gonna say, I made a Woolper News when I lived on a street called Woolper, and I made– I put in all the neighbors’ mailboxes. I used my mom’s copy ma– make– copy machine and made– 

Em: That's so powerful. 

Christine: Oh, thank you. I– Oh, wait. You know what? How about during the Yappy Hour I tell you about what I wrote– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –about my features and all this stuff? ’Cause it– And about the pe– the people who had to tell me to stop showing up at their house ’cause I’m a child and I need to go home. 

Em: I would love that. 

Christine: Yeah. Okay, great. 

Em: I would love that. Um, no, we had The Free Lance-Star, and I was like– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –“We could have named it anything else.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Sorry. I don’t– 

Christine: It’s not great. 

Em: –I don’t feel love for that actually. 

Christine: Free Lance-Star is not great. 

Em: We have The Burbank Bulletin here. 

Christine: That’s good. 

Em: But I will tell you, best thing about The Burbank Bulletin is that it is owned by a reality– not a reality show, LOL. It’s very LA though. 

Christine: Now, that’s good. 

Em: A realty– 

Christine: Bravo took over– 

Em: –real– 

Christine: The Bravo Burbank [chuckles], sponsored by Bravo. 

Em: –a realty company. There’s this guy in town named Brad Korb, who I’m just giving free press to at this point. But Brad Korb, he clearly owns this newspaper because half the newspaper is– Like on the front page every single week, it’s like, “Brad Korb’s done it again.” And I’m like, “What has he done?” 

Christine: He just has like– 

Em: And he’s just selling houses. 

Christine: [laughs] He is an attor– or a, a journalist just covering his, his beat. 

Em: [laughs] I feel like it’s Brad Korb in his Brad Korb basement going, “I’ve done it again.” 

Christine: Oh– 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: “I’ve done it again.” 

Em: Um– 

Christine: “I mean he.” 

Em: “He, he.” [laughs] 

Christine: “He did it again.” [laughs] 

Em: Anyway, that’s The Burbank Bulletin, which I appreciate the headline, but every time I’m like, [sighs] “Let me guess. Brad Korb’s done it again. He always does.” 

Christine: Has he done it again this time? 

Em: There has yet to be a week where he hasn’t done it again. 

Christine: But that’ll be breaking news when that happens. 

Em: I would like to see a change of pace, Brad. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Take a, take a week off. Um– 

Christine: Take a walk. I thought you were saying, “Take a walk.” [laughs] 

Em: Take a walk. [laughs] So um, and h– So that was PB. He did everything under the sun pretty much. Uh, he’s done it again, as they say. 

Christine: [chuckles] He’s done it again. 

Em: And then his wife, Mattie, wa– Mattie Moss was also well known in town. My– She was also a part of like her church and the Freemasons– or her own part of the Freemasons. But my favorite fun fact is (this is a quote) that “she was the first woman in Billings to drive a car–“ 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: “–and was deviled to death with everyone wanting a ride.” I think because they just couldn’t believe that a woman could drive, and they were like– 

Christine: What’s deviled to death? 

Em: I, I– 

Christine: Like she’s like– 

Em: Overwhelmed maybe? 

Christine: Oh. Oh, she’s just bothered– pestered to death by these people wanting, uh, a ride. Oh my god. 

Em: To say that they rode with a woman driving the car. 

Christine: Are you sure it’s not like she’s the only one with a car? 

Em: Maybe. I don’t know. 

Christine: Isn’t she the only person or the only woman to drive a car? 

Em: First woman. 

Christine: Ohh, so they wanted to drive with a woman. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Okay, I see. I see. 

Em: Um, that’d be crazy though if she was the first woman and person to have a car– 

Christine: I was like, “How did this happen?” 

Em: –and all the men are just like– [chuckles] 

Christine: “Give me a ride.” 

Em: Um, so PB and Martha, they lived in this big old mansion with their three servants and their six kids. Their kids’ names were Woodson– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –uh, it’s spelled Kula, but apparently pronounced “Cullee”– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –and then Melville, who’s a girl– 

Christine: Melville? Wow. These are, these are like 2026 names. 

Em: [chuckles] I know. A lot of these are coming back. Preston, David, and Virginia. Um– 

Christine: Wait, didn’t you already say Preston? What was the first one? 

Em: Woodson. 

Christine: [chuckles] Okay. 

Em: Please. 

Christine: Woods– Woodson sounds like a bourbon or something. Okay, Woodson. What’s the next one? 

Em: Kula [pronounced “cull-ee”]. 

Christine: How do you spell that? 

Em: Like Kula, K-U-L-A, but pronounced– 

Christine: Oh, K. 

Em: But apparently pronounced “cull-ee.” 

Christine: I’ve never heard that name. Um– 

Em: It’s– Apparently, it’s Indigenous. It means something like bird, peaceful bird or something. 

Christine: Oh, Kula. Okay. What was the next one? 

Em: Um, Melville, Preston, David, Virginia. 

Christine: Melville Moss. 

Em: Now, that’s a good one. 

Christine: Virginia Moss is pretty cool too. Although, it does sound like something you’d see in like a plant guide. 

Em: It sounds like Spanish moss. 

Christine: That’s why. Yep. [laughs] That’s why. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yep, nailed it. 

Em: Um, and so PB and Martha and their kids, while still living in the home, uh, they passed away in the 1940s when they were like in their, I think, late 80s. Um, so they spent their whole lives, uh, with their kids in this house. Um, actually, P– uh, PB passed away in the home. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: So I think he was the first person to die in the house, but six relatives of the Moss family ended up dying in the home over the years. So there’s– 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: –six deaths. Um, another one of those deaths was their youngest daughter, their youngest kid, Virginia– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –who was born in the house and then passed away from diphtheria only five years later– 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: –so. 

Christine: That’s rough. 

Em: When PB and Martha, uh, passed, their daughter, Melville, took over the house, uh, until she died in the 1980s. So it stayed in the family all the way into only like 40 years ago. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, Melville didn’t have a family herself, but she spent her life being a like international traveling musician, so– 

Christine: What? 

Em: –I think Melville was just fine. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: In 1984, the end was near for Melville. And she was still living in the mansion, but she had a hospice nurse. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And at this point, she was unable to use the stairs, and so she was sleeping near the stairs on the main floor. And one night, I think it was– One version said it was the night before Melville passed or– I think it was just kind of near when Melville passed, the nurse heard something in the middle of the night and went to go check on Melville to see if she was okay. She got up to check on Melville and saw a little girl standing over her bed, watching Melville sleep. 

Christine: Oh my word. 

Em: And it’s presumed that that was Virginia Moss who died in the house at five– 

Christine: Virginia. 

Em: –and she was just watching over her sister as time got closer. So– 

Christine: Her big sister, saying, “We’re all waiting for you.” 

Em: Which I would then go so far as to say that was probably also what PB saw on his way out. He probably saw his daughter being the person who welcomed him to the other side. 

Christine: Oh, she’s the psychopomp. 

Em: Yes. I love that you– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –remember that word after all this time. 

Christine: You know what? It’s like I’d heard it so many times before you did the episode, I still had no clue what it meant, and you finally told me, and it clicked. 

Em: That was a good, that was a good episode. 

Christine: Yeah, that was. 

Em: Uh, after the first time, we’re assuming Virginia, the little girl, was spotted by this nurse, um, Virginia ended up becoming a much more popular spirit that people would get a glimpse of if they were lucky. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: So today she is most often seen on the staircase landing, maybe still heading over to Melville’s room or– I don’t, I don’t know why the stairs specifically, but they assume it has to do with checking on her sister before her sister passed. Uh, Melville is also said to haunt the home now because investigators have asked for the ghost to state their names if they’re present during investigations, and they got an EVP of someone saying, “Melville.” 

Christine: Ooh. Well, I mean, that’s a very specific sounding word, I think. 

Em: Yeah. Yeah, I think so. And there are also EVPs of an adult woman’s voice with a little kid, and a lot of people think it’s Melville and her sister reunited. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: And they’re just hanging out together in the house. 

Christine: Sweet. 

Em: In another EVP, the investigators said they were going upstairs and got the same voice saying, “I can’t come with you.” And people think maybe that’s because Melville as a ghost is still in her older form when she could no longer use the stairs. 

Christine: Oh, so she’s like, “Oh, I can’t go up the stair–” Oh, wow. 

Em: Which imagine haunting a 28-room fucking mansion– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –and you can’t get to the top floor. That’s insane. 

Christine: And– Or, or you think– Yeah. And it, it makes you wonder like where, where– how are the parameters set? Like are they set– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –based on her actual limitations? Does she just think she can’t go up the stairs ’cause she’s like– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –uh, ’cause usually they say like, “Oh–“ 

Em: Is it just a confidence thing? Like– [chuckles] 

Christine: Right. [chuckles] She just needs a little pep talk. 

Em: It’s like, “You can, girl.” 

Christine: But yeah, like sometimes they say, “Oh, you know, she– er, she looked so much younger and like more vibrant when I saw her ghost.” Like people say like, “Oh, she– They like heal, and they come back like more–“ But maybe that’s different if it’s just like a– 

Em: Yeah. My understanding from what people have said is that if they see someone it’s either in their– like in their happiest years– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –like they like are able to age to whatever– like they can choose basically. 

Christine: Their most like prime, yeah. 

Em: Yeah. So it’s interesting that i-it’s really sad if a ghost can cross– a person can cross over and is still– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –in the same head space or, or– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –dealing with the same medical stuff. 

Christine: Well, and I feel like you do see that, I guess, with like hauntings where it’s like, “Oh, someone–“ You see someone like hanging or falling to their death or like– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –replaying their last moments. 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: Maybe it’s just like replaying her final– I don’t know. It’s weird though. 

Em: That’s a good point though. I don’t know. Um, I, I assume it’s something like what you and I have done on investigations where it’s gone like, “Okay, we’re gonna go upstairs. You can come with us if you want.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And then they got, “I can’t come,” which is– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –sad. Um, anyway– 

Christine: [stammering] Our reaction would have been like, “Why? What’s up there?” [chuckles] 

Em: I– Yeah. Yeah. Would have totally run into it. 

Christine: “Lead the way. You go first.” 

Em: She’d be like, “That shit just can’t get up there. It’s not that hard.” 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Um, other spirits here are said to be Virginia and also their father, PB, since he died in the house. Um, I don’t know who the other people are that died in the house. Um, so I don’t know why they said six relatives died in the building– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –but I didn’t see a list anywhere of those other three people. Um– 

Christine: That's mysterious. 

Em: It is. It is. It is. Um, he has been seen walking down the staircase. There’s something about these stairs. Uh– 

Christine: I know, man. These stairs are like some sort of portal or something. 

Em: Well, PB is also seen at night in his bedroom, which I love that he’s still going to sleep like he always does. 

Christine: Love it. Routine, man. 

Em: Which would be– If I died and my haunting was like I still go to bed at the same time, I’d be– you’d see a ghost walking to the bedroom at like 5 in the morning. Like you would s– 

Christine: Yeah, people would be like, “Oh, they’re going for breakfast.” No, it’s bedtime. 

Em: [chuckles] Naptime. Um, it said if you play music from their time period, you’ll start seeing shadows darting around the mansion. 

Christine: Oh, they’re dancing. 

Em: Oh, I hadn’t even thought about that. I just thought they appear. 

Christine: Did you think they were like running in panic from the noise? 

Em: [laughs] Honestly– 

Christine: Like the time the phone rang and everybody had a fucking conniption? 

Em: “Get to the solarium quick.” 

Christine: [chuckles] “Everyone, gather in the solarium.” 

Em: I don’t know what I thought. I think I assumed it was like, oh, now they’re just moving about their day in the house. 

Christine: You’re just like activating them somehow. I mean, maybe. 

Em: Maybe. But I guess, um, investigators have done this where they’ve played old-timey music, and in the library and the parlor specifically (I don’t know which parlor)– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –um, they saw shadows everywhere. Um, staff have also gotten calls from people that figures have been seen in the third floor windows. 

Christine: Ooh. 

Em: However, I then saw in an interview someone say, “That’s the employees-only area. It’s probably just employees.” 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: So I don’t know. I don’t know which is true. Maybe both are true. People will feel wind blow through the house. Sometimes it actually feels like it’s swirling around just one person. People have seen the curtains blowing on their own. 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: Yuck. 

Christine: That’s like a new one kind of. 

Em: Yeah. Staff have also , um– They make sure to tell the house “hi” and “goodbye” each day to keep the spirits happy. And– 

Christine: Smart. 

Em: –they’ve heard a female voice singing in the billiards room. They’ve heard laughing, footsteps, knockings, voices talking, and they claim that objects move throughout the house. And there are many EVPs. One team actually got a man saying, “Bring me a flashlight.” And one, it’s assumed that that’s PB ’cause that’s the only man we know of that died in the house. 

Christine: Right, right. 

Em: But two, it’s funny where like someone said a ghost said, “Bring me a flashlight,” and– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –they’re like, “Well, it’s– They were ghost hunting. Maybe– Just ’cause the lights were off, and this guy was like, ‘Where–? I can’t see anything.’” 

Christine: “Hey, what the hell? Turn the lights back on.” [chuckles] 

Em: [laughs] Which that makes me wonder, every time we’ve gone ghost hunting, did they want us to turn the lights on too? ’Cause they’re like, “Why are we all bumping into each other?” 

Christine: They’re like, “If you’re gonna be playing music, like turn the fucking lights on. I can’t see where I’m dancing.” 

Em: [laughs] Anyway, food for thought. Do you think ghosts want the lights on? Um– 

Christine: Yeah. Uh, probably not. I feel like– It’s– I don’t know. I feel like– I don’t know. If I were a ghost, I’d be like, “Just fucking leave me, leave me be in the dark.” 

Em: I think I, I think I like the idea of them needing the lights on so that way they can feel like they’re living in the building that they’re used to. Like they can feel like it’s just every day the lights are on sometimes. But I, I feel like it’s easier for them to contact us when the lights are off because then we’re all a little more vulnerable. 

Christine: Yeah. Our senses are like heightened, you know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Um, staff also feel like something is definitely in the house with them, but they claim the spirits are kind and probably just either still living here, like blueprint theory, or just watching over the people who now run the house. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: One of the reasons that the place might be so active is because when the family sold this mansion, it’s now a museum, and in the museum are artifacts from the family. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: So there are a lot of accidental trigger items throughout the house for the Mosses. 

Christine: They’re like, “I can’t reach my comb.” 

Em: Yeah. It’s like, “I’m just trying to get it, fuck.” 

Christine: “It’s behind this glass, fuck.” 

Em: “My one phone? The one phone– You couldn’t just give me that?” 

Christine: Oh. Oh, I said comb. 

Em: Oh. [laughs] 

Christine: The phone would be even more distressing. [laughs] Please, the phone’s just ringing off the hook, and they can’t reach it. Oh god. 

Em: Now, that would be creative though if they got that phone, probably unplugged these days, to ring. [groans] That would be scary as shit. 

Christine: [gasps] Brrring! 

Em: Some of the artifacts though are, um, their furniture, quilts, and needlepoint that they made, um, Melville’s harp, uh– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –Mattie’s oil paintings. This one I don’t fucking understand, but apparently, the children at some point got together and made a basketball hoop, and so that’s still on the, the third floor. 

Christine: That’s cute. I guess like if you, if you learn to do the string– like tie the knots into a net. 

Em: Yeah. I’ve never heard of that before, but I guess if you wanna– 

Christine: That’s cool. 

Em: I guess they j– It was a family project. 

Christine: It’s like a new, it’s like a newfangled hoop and stick. 

Em: It is literally just sideways hoop and stick. 

Christine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Em: But hoop, hoop and ball. 

Christine: With no stick. [laughs] With a ball instead. 

Em: Um, and then the other thing that’s still there is a toy ship that one of the sons made. Um, but it– He literally painted on it with his sister’s fingernail polish, and– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –and the ship is still there. And the eeriest part– 

Christine: That’s cute. 

Em: –the eeriest part is there’s still original chalk drawings from the kids in the attic. 

Christine: Oh god, no. Where people see the fucking people in the window? 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: Forget it. 

Em: Uh, the mansion is open to the public, offers events and tours to raise funds for its preservation. Some of the events are ghost tours, murder mystery dinners, a jump scare Halloween house, and then– 

Christine: No. 

Em: –during Christmas, there’s a Christmas tree tour– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –where I guess a bunch of different businesses get to decorate a tree, and then everyone goes to the mansion to look at everyone’s trees. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: And I think there’s like a vote or a contest on Best Tree. 

Christine: Yeah, like a– That’s kinda cute. 

Em: Um, and then I’ll end on this that it’s on the National Register of Historic Places and has been a filming location for a bunch of movies I did not know the name to. 

Christine: Cool. Does it have a plaque? I assume so. 

Em: I gotta assume so. 

Christine: That’s cool. 

Em: But that’s the Moss Mansion. 

Christine: Hey, good job. 

Em: Thank you. 

Christine: Moss Mansion. It does sound like a Sims house, but I love it. 

Em: Also alliteration. 

Christine: Also alliteration, your favorite. 

Em: Moss Mansion. Flip it around. Wicked Witch. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Hell yeah. 

Em: Sorry, I– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] That’s a stupid TikTok thing. Okay. Well, I’m gonna go pee, and then I want to tell you about The Woolper News ’cause I have really– 

Em: Please. 

Christine: –bre-breaking news from 1998 to share with you. 

Em: [groans] It will be breaking to me. 

Christine: Okay, great. See you in a moment. 

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Christine’s Story – The Murder of Artemus Ogletree 

Christine: We’re back. Thank you so much, everybody. If you were in our, um, in our lovely Yappy Hour, you heard about The Woolper News, and Em’s, um, Em’s getting a copy for themselves at a LARPing party they went to. So you know, things are just popping off over there on Patreon. [chuckles] 

Em: I would, I would really– If you do find a copy of it blown up, sent my way, you just let me know. I’m surpri– 

Christine: [chuckles] I will print it. I have more resources at my disposal than a fax machine and copy machine now. I could probably print it on some– What is that called? Parchment paper. Yeah. 

Em: You could literally just make it really tiny and print it as a sticker on your Etsy. 

Christine: Oh, that– [laughs] 

Em: And it could, it could just be a sticker of The Woolper News, and people would be like– uh, like, part of like– “Subscriber to The Woolper News,” it should say underneath it or something. 

Christine: “Shrek the Movie Gets an A+ From Me,” and it’ll be like this big, you know. 

Em: I’m just saying for people who know– 

Christine: Family friendly. 

Em: –that would be an incredible like obscure reference to the podcast. 

Christine: It’s like that one reference that I kept having to google that everybody kept putting on things, that really long– Was it like– 

Em: [chuckles] The Woolper News? What are you talking–? 

Christine: –Jersey Shore? 

Em: Oh, what about the Jersey Shore? 

Christine: Remember that long like rant, and then people put it– Like “he was cheating on you,” or “I saw him with a–“ 

Em: Oh, “dear Sam”? The Note? 

Christine: “–girl.” Yeah. 

Em: “Dear Sam”? 

Christine: What’s that from? 

Em: The Jersey Shore. 

Christine: Oh, it is. Okay. I’ve like googled it so many times ’cause I always forget, and I never watched that show. Um– 

Em: I did not know that you had a struggle with that. Uh, it’s like, like The Note is one of my favorite pieces of reality show iconography. 

Christine: It’s very, very funny. Like I just– I remember just finding like the whole concept hilarious, which is why I kept googling– [chuckles] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –what it was from. So I was like, “This is good stuff. These people are making good content.” 

Em: “Dear Sam, When you were at bed–“ Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. That was, that was fun for me even on the outside. Okay, everybody, back to the depressing news as Em said. [sighs] I have the story of– Okay. The reason I said it’s kind of a s– the same pattern is that, um, it’s another hotel room mystery, and I feel like I’ve been doing a l– 

Em: Yes! 

Christine: –lot of those, but for some reason like they are just very– 

Em: I eat ‘em up. 

Christine: –interesting to me these days, you know. They’re just like– It’s like a puzzle within a story. Um– 

Em: I eat ‘em up, Christine. I’m so glad. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Thank you. Keep this up actually. 

Christine: You’re– Listen, you’re so welcome. Uh, I’m gonna let you kind of try and figure this one out. 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: ’Cause you are gonna solve it, right? That’s what we decide at the beginning of every episode. 

Em: Um, I love that you, first of all, gave me permission as if I wasn’t just gonna keep interjecting all episode, but, um, I– 

Christine: It’s a, it’s a, it’s a– What do you call it? Courtesy, you know, just a courtesy statement. 

Em: Thank you. Thank you. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I appreciate it. I– No, I do plan to solve it. Um– 

Christine: Oh, good. 

Em: Can’t guarantee anything, but I am confident. 

Christine: That would be great. Okay, so– 

Em: I am psychic. 

Christine: Oh, that– Wait, hang on. But make sure you’re not just psychic about what I’m thinking ’cause that’s not gonna be helpful because I don’t know what happened. 

Em: We’ll see, we’ll see. I can’t make promises. 

Christine: Okay. So on Wednesday, January 2, 1935, a man entered Kansas City’s Hotel President at 14th and Baltimore and asked for an interior room several floors up. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: He registered under the name Roland T. Owen and gave Los Angeles as his home address. He paid for one day of lodging, and he carried no luggage with him. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Staff descriptions varied on age, but usually, uh, said about 20 to 35. Distinctive features were repeatedly noted: um, dark brown hair. Um, he had a large scar on the side of his scalp, which was like pretty noticeable, and he also had cauliflower ear. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Do you know what– You know what that is, right? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: It’s like people oftentimes with boxing or wrestling or, or jiu-jitsu, um, you get, yeah, like the fluid buildup in your ear, and it turns kind of poofy over time. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So they thought maybe that was kind of what he had a background in. Bellboy Randolph Propst escorted this man to Room 1046 on the tenth floor. It was an inside room facing the courtyard. And the bellboy later described him as neatly dressed in a dark overcoat. But he also said that this guy, Owen, had stayed, uh, at the nearby Muehlebach the night before. That’s what he told the bellboy. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: But he said he came to this hotel instead, the Hotel President, because the Muehlebach’s $5 rate was too expensive for an inside room. 

Em: What year is this? 

Christine: So this is 1935. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: $5 nowadays is about $100. 

Em: Okay. And also let’s note that he– as if you haven’t already, but let’s– 

Christine: No, no, please. 

Em: –the class, is that he’s already stayed at another place, so he is already due for a change of clothes but has no luggage. 

Christine: Right. Very good point. So he’s already been in town at– 

Em: It’s not like– 

Christine: –another hotel for a night. 

Em: There have been times where I stay in a hotel for the day to do a day rate because I don’t plan on spending the night, so I don’t bring luggage ’cause I don’t need clothes. 

Christine: You don’t need luggage, right. 

Em: But if you stayed at another hotel last night, wear your clothes from yesterday. 

Christine: And you don’t want to pay the rate, so it’s not like you left your stuff there. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: You clearly like moved. Yeah, yeah. And so– 

Em: And you plan on spending the night here, so you’re already now two nights in, no new clothes. 

Christine: And no new clothes. And on top of that, he did have a couple things. They were all in his pockets. So the bellboy observed Owen unpack all of his belongings, which was a black hairbrush, a black comb, and toothpaste, and that was it. 

Em: And no toothbrush? Okay. 

Christine: Good point. [laughs] Really good point. 

Em: So what’s that for? To scrub on your finger. 

Christine: I mean, maybe back then you didn’t really have a normal tooth– I don’t know. Maybe there was like– 

Em: Like, I mean, he was carrying a normal brush [chuckles] which– 

Christine: Oh, maybe just hairbrush his teeth. Oh, gross. After putting those items by the sink, Owen and the bellboy left the room. The bellboy saw Owen exit the hotel shortly afterward. So now we have another witness, Mary Soptic. She is a housekeeper, and she first encountered this man, Owen, when she went to clean 1046 around midday and found him inside because, uh– Well, apparently, this surprised her because a woman had been using the room previously, and so I guess she just got a little startled. Um, the room’s lighting and his demeanor stood out to her immediately. The shades were tightly drawn. There was only a dim lamp on, and she thought that this man seemed worried or afraid and was trying to keep in the dark, and he was just kinda– 

Em: Hiding– 

Christine: –in his bed. 

Em: –from something. 

Christine: Yeah, it looked like it. So during that cleaning, Owen was very friendly. He said, “Come on in. You can clean.” Um, he put on his overcoat while Mary was still cleaning, brushed his hair. I don’t know about his teeth [chuckles] in the bathroom. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Maybe he forgot his toothbrush. That is annoying when you like have– You’re like, “Now what do I do?” Um– 

Em: So– And also “I’m carrying this other random thing that I can’t even use now.” 

Christine: Now you have an extra thing. Yeah, exactly. So he brushed his hair in the bathroom. Then he left the room, and he told Mary Soptic, the housekeeper, to please not lock the door because he was expecting a friend to stop by soon. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So this is a weird situation that like gets addressed, but we don’t really know why this is the case. This hotel, at the time, the doors could be locked from the outside. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Which is– 

Em: Oh, could they be unlocked from the outside? 

Christine: Yeah– 

Em: I guess so. 

Christine: –if you had the key, but you could lock– I guess l– I guess it’s just an old– I mean, 1935. I guess it’s just a normal locked door, so you could lock it and unlock it from– 

Em: I’m thinking, I’m thinking of the Hotel Congress we stayed in in Tucson, the, the old, old, old– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. So something like that. Yeah, where it’s just– 

Em: I’m imagining like it’s just like a, like a door– Just a door. [chuckles] I don’t know how else to put it. 

Christine: With a metal key and a normal lock, yeah. So he tells her, “Please don’t lock the door. Leave it open. I have a friend coming soon.” So– 

Em: Hey. 

Christine: –I’ll tell you als– 

Em: Hey. 

Christine: Yep? Hey. 

Em: Do you want to know something so horrid? 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: We never pressed record again. I don’t know why, but it says “paused.” 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And why does it say “two seconds”? Did we not record anything? 

[The And That’s Why We Drink logo and fog fades out as Em and Christine’s video begins, fading onto the screen.] 

Christine: Oh no. All the video was off, Em. 

Em: [chuckles] Like for the whole thing? Like the whole episode? 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Well, we’re here now, folks. Welcome to the last quarter of the episode. [laughs] 

Christine: Jesus. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: I kept looking up, and I kept seeing “end recording,” and I was like, “Oh, good. So we’re still recording.” [whispers] Oh my fucking god. [normal volume] Oh my fucking god. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: This was a very visual episode, I feel like. 

Em: I feel like we did a lot of this [moves their hands around in front of them] of ha– 

Christine: We did a lot of gesticulating. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: I showed my sticker [Christine raises her iPad slightly where her “Abolish ICE” sticker is visible on the back], and nobody could even see it. 

Em: Oh, it was a beautiful sticker. 

Christine: Oh, thanks. Wow. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Devastating. The e– 

Em: Do you want to start the entire episode again, Christine? 

Christine: No, I don’t. 

Em: Oh, okay. Just checking. 

Christine: I, I mean, I don’t, unless you do. Maybe we can just like– [in a sing-song voice] We’re sorry. [laughs] 

Em: Yeah, I think so. I think if anyone was watching on YouTube, I think they just find out now. 

Christine: I’m sorry, everybody. 

Em: Man. Oh, Christine, that’s silly. 

Christine: Oh, I’m sorry, Jack. I’m sorry, everybody. Oh my god, that’s so embarrassing. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: That was so stupid. 

Em: Well, we’ve got our locals. 

Christine: Shit. [blows a raspberry, sighing] At least we have audio, [chuckles] I mean. 

Em: We have audio. That’s all that matters. Remember that one time– 

Christine: Man. 

Em: –we literally recorded a whole episode and then had to go record the entire episode again? Do you remember that? That was in your old– old, old house and– 

Christine: Heaps worse. He– Tremendously worse than this, so– 

Em: Well, ’cause you didn’t even press record, and we– at the time, we only recorded– 

Christine: We had nothing. 

Em: –through like the mixers or something, so. 

Christine: We were just talking to each other. 

Em: Yeah. And then we– 

Christine: And no one else. 

Em: I had to come back the next day and just tell, tell the entire story all over again. 

Christine: Terrible. 

Em: Remember when you fell asleep? Or no? Okay, I’m just checking. 

Christine: I’ve heard about it, and I’ve env– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: I’ve visualized it in my mind’s eye, but for some reason, I can’t quite pull the memory itself up. 

Em: To this day, my favorite episode. There’s no, there’s no better. 

Christine: When I fall asleep dur–? [laughs] 

Em: I’m so– I’m truly so glad you did it because the story is so funny. 

Christine: [laughs] I was just dying. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I just re– I just remember one eye kept closing, and then I would try to close the other eye. 

Em: Not even. You were doing– You were like this [dips their chin to their chest with their eyes closed], and you’d go, “Uh-huh.” 

Christine: [laughs] And then I hit the microphone with my head. 

Em: [laughs] I wish we recorded video then. 

Christine: I know. That’s disappointing. 

Em: If you saw– You would have made us redo the entire episode ’cause there– It was so obvious. [laughs] 

Christine: It’s so embarrassing. 

Em: No, it was my favorite episode. I’m so glad it happened. Um, so– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –anyway, welcome, everyone, visually. 

Christine: I’m so, I’m so sorry, everybody. I, I cannot believe that. That’s– Em, I’m glad you caught that, but like shit, dude. 

Em: I caught it way late. We’re– We– Neither of us saw it. 

Christine: Em goes, “Two seconds. It says two seconds.” 

Em: Neither of us saw that at– 

Christine: Fuck me. 

Em: –at this entire time, for an hour and a half. 

Christine: [takes a deep breath] 

Em: Well, Christine’s story is gonna get some real visual play all of a sudden. [laughs] 

Christine: So sorry, everybody. Okay? We’re at the mystery of Room 1046. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Uh, huh, so Owen puts on his overcoat. He tells this, uh, housekeeper to not lock the door from the outside because he has someone coming over. Now, I also mentioned that you can’t lock the doors– or that you can lock the doors from the outside, um, because staff tended to use “locked from the outside” as sort of a proxy message for “the guest is probably not here”– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –because they locked the door from the outside and left. So they kind of did that as like, oh, if they’re going to clean the room, they knock. They say, “Oh, it looks like it’s locked from the outside. I’m gonna go in and clean while they’re out.” You know what I’m saying? That kinda thing. 

Em: Sure. I mean, I guess it’s no different than like today’s hotel rooms where you can get into a locked room wi– 

Christine: Right, with like a master key or what have you. 

Em: It, it just feels eerier that it’s a physical key. 

Christine: I think so too. Um, so around 4 p.m., Soptic, Mary Soptic, returned with fresh towels. Um, the door was still unlocked. The room was still dark, and he was back in the room, and he was lying across the bed fully dressed in the dark. 

Em: Oh, ‘kay. 

Christine: And he’s like, “Oh, yeah. Go ahead.” And she’s probably like, “Um…” [chuckles] 

Em: “You want me to clean up or–?” [chuckles] 

Christine: “I wish you’d dismiss me, honestly.” So she sees him lying across the bed, fully dressed, and as she’s kind of like dropping the towels off, from the light in the hallway, she sees a note on the desk that reads, “Don, I will be back in 15 minutes. Wait.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So the next morning, Thursday, January 3, Mary Soptic went to clean 1046, the room 1046, at around 10:36 a.m. The door this time was locked, and so she interpreted that as someone had locked it externally and left. But she opened with her key and found Owen inside, sitting again in the dark. 

Em: He’s a fucking vampire, this guy. 

Christine: It’s creepy. While she was there, the phone rang, and she overheard Owen say, “No, Don, I don’t want to eat. I am not hungry. I just had breakfast.” And then he said again, “No, I’m not hungry.” 

Em: And the guy is Don, which means– Or the guy that he’s talking to is Don, which means– 

Christine: Presumably, yeah. 

Em: Okay. I’m only s– 

Christine: So he’s on the phone saying, “Yeah, Don– No, Don, I’m not–“ 

Em: I’m only saying that because the, the note that said “Don, wait”– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: The guy that we’re– The overcoat guy with the comb, he’s the one who wrote that note. 

Christine: Yes, right. 

Em: Okay, got it. 

Christine: It– Presumably. Yeah, it looks like he wrote the note. This time, she’s in there. He’s on the phone with this Don person and saying, “No, I’m not hungry,” and insisting on it. Um, still holding the phone, Owen then started to ask Mary about her job and the hotel, like whether she was responsible for the entire floor, um, whether the hotel had any residents besides just guests. Um, he complained again about the cost of the Muehlebach’s nightly rates. And then she kind of went about her business, just thinking, “This guy’s just a little weird, I guess.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Later that same day around 4 p.m., Mary Soptic returned again with towels and heard two men talking inside the room. So this time, there were two men inside the room. 

Em: Presumably Don. 

Christine: Presumably Don. We don’t know. There was a man with a rough voice, uh, not Owen. And when she knocked, this voice said, “Who is it?” And she said, “Oh, it’s housekeeping. I’m bringing the towels.” And this room had no towels left. She knew there were no clean towels, so she was bringing them. This voice responded, “We don’t need any.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So she was basically dismissed. That evening, January 3, a separate guest checked into Room 1048, which was right next door, and later told police she heard loud talking and cursing that night that was keeping her awake, and it sounded like both men and women in the room. 

Em: Huh, okay. 

Christine: However, there was also a boisterous party reported in 1055, which was a couple doors away. So– 

Em: So it could have been them. 

Christine: Yeah, it complicates like this– the witness sighting– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –because it’s like maybe it was– maybe he just heard the party. During the graveyard shift that night, elevator operator Charles Blocher told police he had recognized a “commercial woman.” Okay, that’s his– 

Em: What does that mean? That– A sex worker? 

Christine: Okay, it does. And you like nailed it because, um, I feel like nobody really knew what it meant like when they were describing it. But I don’t know that, that, that is the vibe that I got when I, when I researched like his original statement. Um, he called her a “commercial woman.” He said that, uh, he f– she frequented the hotel with different men, um, and he recognized her. He knew her, and he took her to the tenth floor because she asked to go to Room 1026. He drops her off. She comes back to the elevator and says, “Huh? The, the man I was looking to see is not in his room. Maybe he was in a different room.” 

Em: And that was 1026, but this guy’s in 1046, right? 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: So– Okay. 

Christine: So she left. But so, it’s basically like, could she have over– mis-misunderstood the number and gone to the wrong room? Was she looking for him? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: We don’t know. Blocher said the same woman later returned with a man and went to the ninth floor, and later in the early morning hours, both she and that man came back down and left the hotel separately. Late that night, Robert Lane, a Kansas City water department employee, reported an encounter on 13th Street. He saw a man running in the cold, wearing trousers, shoes, and just an undershirt. He initially– This man initially thought that Robert Lane was a taxicab, so he kind of like ran over, and when he realized it wasn’t a cab, he asked for help getting one. And the guy was like, “Listen, I don’t know, man.” And this mystery guy, with like not enough clothes on, who’s running through the street, he says, “I’ll kill that [expletive] tomorrow.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So Lan– Robert Lane is looking at this guy, and he is beat up. He has a deep scratch on his arm. Um, it looked almost like he’s trying to hold some blood in– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –on his body. And Robert Lane was like, “Alright, let me just drive you where you need to go.” So he drives this man to 12th and Troost where the man jumps out, runs to an actual taxi, opens the driver door (because the driver’s not in the taxi) and starts honking, laying on the horn until the cabbie comes out of a restaurant and is like, “What the hell, dude?” 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Like that’s how, I guess, desperate this man was to, uh– 

Em: Get a ride. 

Christine: –to get a ride, to get wherever– 

Em: He already had a ride, but okay. 

Christine: –he was going. Yeah. I’m unclear as to like where he was going. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Uh, I’m not really sure. So after , um– 

Em: Well, also did he say specifically 12th and Troost? Do you– we know that? 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Because my thought is it sounds like– I don’t, I don’t know anything, but it sounds like he knew a cabbie who would be there? Because why else would he say 12th and Troost, and then conveniently, there is a cab there– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –that he also felt comfortable enough to get into and lay the horn on, knowing this guy was in the restaurant. 

Christine: Interesting. That could be. Although I, although I feel like he just got dropped off there ’cause that’s where this guy who is not a cab was kind of going. Like he just took him– 

Em: Oh, okay. 

Christine: –and dropped him off closer to town, I think. 

Em: Got it, okay. 

Christine: And then the guy saw a real cab and was like, “Oh, there’s a cab. Let me call it.” 

Em: Got it, okay. 

Christine: It seemed like– That’s kind of the vibe I got. I don’t think he told him where he was going. I think he just said like, “I need a cab. I need a cab. I need help getting a cab.” 

Em: Okay, got it. 

Christine: Um, so the guy like dropped him off closer to where some cabs would be, some unsuspecting cabbie– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –who’s just trying to enjoy his fried eggs or whatever. So that was just– 

Em: And also– Sorry, remind me– 

Christine: Oh, sorry. 

Em: –who Robert Lane is? 

Christine: Oh, so Robert Lane is just the, uh, the local water employee who was just trying to get home or whatever– 

Em: Just– He was just driving through town? 

Christine: –and sees this man running through the– Correct. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And he drops this random scratched-up dude who’s angry– he’s pissed off, um, at 12 and Troost– 

Em: And– 

Christine: –and this guy goes in the cab. 

Em: And are we assuming that this is Owen or Don? 

Christine: I think so. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I think so. I think we’re assuming it could be Owen– 

Em: Okay, got it. 

Christine: –potentially. Or Don, I guess. So Friday morning, January 4, hotel staff notices that Room 1046’s phone had been off the hook for several hours, triggering like a quick check because they can’t call up, obviously. The phone is off the hook, speaking of landlines. And so they send up the bellboy, Randolph Propst, who was the one who had imme– uh, initially checked him in. So Randolph Propst goes up. The door’s locked with a “Do Not Disturb” sign on the knob. And after repeated knocking, a voice inside tells him, “Come in and turn on the lights.” But the door– Nobody opened the door, and it was locked, so he’s like, “Well, I’m not gonna–“ 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: “I’m just gonna leave you alone.” Now he’s thinking, “Well, this guy’s clearly drunk,” so he yells, “I don’t need to come in. Just put the phone on the hook,” and goes back down to the desk. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: They go down, and, uh, it’s still off the hook. They give, uh, it some time. 7:10 a.m., another bellboy is sent up. Um, again, they’re thinking this guy’s drunk. They just get another response like, “All right, I will.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And they leave. 8:30 a.m., the phone is still off the fucking hook. 

Em: He’s clearly incapacitated or tied up or something, and I th– 

Christine: Something. 

Em: I think he’s– I– So far, I’m guessing something embarrassing is in there. Like he’s like a– Like he can’t– he’s tied up for some reason and can’t, but then he’s afraid to ask for help for some reason also. 

Christine: But then why would he say, “Turn on the lights”? Wouldn’t you be like, “Don’t turn on the lights”? [chuckles] 

Em: That’s a good question. Uh, ’cause I– Also my first thought was like what if he killed somebody, and he was like, “Okay, I will,” and he’s like– But wouldn’t you just then hang up the phone and just shut them up and– 

Christine: Yeah, the phone off the hook is the weird part too, ’cause it’s like why is that not getting rectified? 

Em: Why can’t you get to the phone? Because if– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: If, if you’re trying to cover something up, you would just do it to keep them at bay. So why can’t you– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –get to the phone? But then also, whatever you’re doing that you can’t get to the phone, s– if it’s shady at all, why are you telling them to come turn the lights on? 

Christine: You were right about the incapacitated bit. Let’s just put it that way. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So you're on the right track with that because at 8:30 a.m., the phone is still off the hook. It’s been off for hours. A different bellboy, Harold Pike, goes up. He uses a key to finally enter the room. It’s dark. He sees a guest lying naked on the bed, breathing heavily, and he sees like almost a shadow under this man, like a dark shadow under this man, that he just assumes is shadow. He reset the phone because it had been knocked to the floor, and he left, still assuming this guy’s just drunk. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So that was around, uh, 8:30. Now, fast-forward two hours around 10:30, the phone is again off the hook. 

Em: Yo, what? 

Christine: Remember, he put it on the hook. 

Em: So I think– Is he trying to like– If he, if he’s like– his head’s busted, maybe he’s trying to like reach for the phone to call for help– 

Christine: That’s what I thought. 

Em: –and the phone gets knocked off, and then he can’t grab it from the floor anymore. 

Christine: That’s exactly what I thought. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So this time the original guy, Propst, returns. And this time, he opens the door, and instead of seeing Owen on the floor– or sorry. Instead of seeing, uh, Owen on the bed, he sees this man on his knees and elbows only five feet from the hotel door. 

Em: Oof. 

Christine: He is on his knees, and he’s holding his head in his hands, and there is blood– 

Em: Everywhere. 

Christine: –everywhere. 

Em: Also a part of me is like, if he was [stammering] incapacitatat– incapacitated and in pain, when people were calling him or calling through the door, why didn’t he just say, “Help”? 

Christine: Yeah. I mean, I– 

Em: Like if he’s trying to grab the ph– If, if we think– 

Christine: You’re right. 

Em: –he’s trying to grab the phone to call for help, why didn’t he just say “help” originally? Unless he’s like so fucked up and his head was hit so hard– 

Christine: Right. Unless he has– 

Em: –he wasn’t thinking right. 

Christine: –such a brain injury, he doesn’t understand like how much danger he’s in? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Right, but also like yeah, you’d think your, your, your survival instinct would just be like “help,” you know? 

Em: Yeah. And also “turn the lights on.” It’s like so did you want someone to see that? Is that your way of asking for help or– I don’t know. 

Christine: Yeah, maybe you’re like so out of it you don’t realize like how dire the situation is? 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: So he sees this man. Um, there is blood everywhere. It’s on the ceilings. It’s on the walls. It’s on, it’s on everything. 

Em: [sighs] Ugh. 

Christine: So the bellboy runs for help. And when he returns with the assistant manager, they could only open the door a few inches because he was that close, slumped over, to the door. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, a doctor arrives with hotel staff and police. And in the doctor’s statement, as summarized by Kansas City Magazine, the victim was found in or partly near, um, the bathtub, so almost like– as if he was kind of halfway out of the bathroom. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, he also had clothesline tied around his neck. 

Em: Oof. 

Christine: He had clothesline tied around his ankles and wrists. He had been stabbed in the chest multiple times. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: He had at least three blows to the head. And when medical findings were finally, um, delivered, they noted that he also had a punctured lung, a fractured skull, and based on the wounds, it was estimated that the wounds, the injuries had occurred roughly six to seven hours before discovery. So essentially, yes, like what you were saying. He was clearly incapacitated, injured during this period, which makes it extra horrible to think that they were stopping by and had no clue. 

Em: Which also makes me wonder like why wasn’t he asking for help? 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: Like he was able to speak enough to say, “I will,” or “Okay.” He couldn’t just say, “Help”? 

Christine: Well, one thing that is a little weird is that when they got him, he was shockingly– They got him to the hospital, he was shockingly still alive. 

Em: Insane. 

Christine: Barely, but he was still alive, and he was able to say a few final words before passing away. And the last thing he said– They said, “Who else was in the room with you? Who did this? Who else was here?” And he said, “No one. I hit my head on the bathtub.” 

Em: Oh, he’s– He was in danger or something. 

Christine: Something’s up. Something’s up. 

Em: Or he’s– 

Christine: So he’s– 

Em: –really s– He hit his head so hard that he didn’t even know where he was. That’s crazy. 

Christine: But then how do you get tied up? 

Em: No, I’m saying like he must have hit his head so hard– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –that he’s just coming up with a story ’cause he doesn’t even know what the story was at this point. 

Christine: But he was so insistent it was almost like he didn’t want to– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –tattle on whoever that was. And I don’t know if that’s like because he’s scared of them, because he cares about them, because they threatened him, because– 

Em: He– I think he for s– I mean, if they did that to him for whatever his last crime was, imagine like ratting them out now. Like, of course you’re gonna say, “Oh, I just hit my head.” 

Christine: No way. You’re gonna be like, “That fucker just tried to kill me, and I’m about to die, and I want him to–“ 

Em: I wonder if he knew he was about to die. 

Christine: I mean, they found him on the ground with stab wounds to the chest. I don’t know. But yeah, he said, uh, he said, “Nobody hurt me. Uh, I just accidentally fell.” And unfortunately, that was kind of the last thing he said. Um, he slipped into a coma, died the next morning, Saturday, January 5, 1935. Um, just really disturbing. The room– When they took a closer look at the actual room, it appeared completely bare, like, like scrubbed of basics. There was no clothing. There were no personal belongings. Um, the only remaining items in the room was a torn necktie label, a hair pin, an unsmoked cigarette, and a glass that had, um, mysterious four fingerprints from a mystery person. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: There was no knife or obvious weapon. Like for him to s– Yeah. I’m just thinking like for him to say– ‘Cause at first I thought, well, you could tie yourself up if you were doing some sort of like– if you were you know doing something sexual and you didn’t want people to know. But then the stabbing in the chest is like, “Never mind,” right? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like that– 

Em: It was definitely– 

Christine: The, the tying up is one thing but– Yeah. 

Em: –definitely not his doing. 

Christine: No. So they ruled out suicide because, um, there was no knife, no obvious weapon that he could have harmed himself with. Um, as for the fingerprints, they are reported to be a woman’s fingerprints– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –but there really is no way to determine that. ’Cause my first thought was how on earth would you, would you even know that? And then I looked it up, and you can’t like determine– you can’t reliably determine someone’s sex based on a fingerprint. They would just kind of look at it and say like, “Oh, based on how small it is and the ridge is– or what a ridge detail, it’s a woman’s print.” But it’s kind of like not– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: It’s not– Let’s say it’s not admissible in court, right? Like it’s not really, um, for sure. 

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Christine: So pretty quickly, police suspected that this guy, uh, “Roland T. Owen,” was an alias because, uh, he had written Los Angeles as his home and authorities reported no record of a person by that name. The body was actually held at the funeral home for public viewing for a few weeks. Um– 

Em: Mm. That’s rough. 

Christine: Yeah, just hoping that somebody would come and identify who this man was. Kansas City sources report dozens to hundreds, and later, thousands, of people came through just to see if they knew him, if they like had any connection, if it was their missing loved one. ’Cause at that time you don’t necessarily have just like on– You know, you don’t have photos just everywhere to look up. 

Em: Right. 

Christine: So people came from all over to check and probably some lookie-loos as well. Then they had to expand the chase. So they sent letters and telegrams to departments– police departments nationwide. Um, they were flooded with tips, but nobody seemed to match this victim. They did, however, look into that one tip about the Muehlebach. And they did conclude that someone matching the victim’s photograph had stayed at the Muehlebach under the name “Eugene K. Scott”– 

Em: Ooh, okay. 

Christine: –and had also listed Los Angeles a home but was also not any resident of LA that they could find. So they sort of assumed, “Okay, he’s using two different aliases at two different hotels for an inner courtyard room for some reason, um, and that must be, that must be the same guy.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Now, the central unknown of all this is who the hell is Don, right? Like that– 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. 

Christine: –was the thing that people kept landing on. They didn’t know if it was the guy on the phone. They didn’t know if it was the rough-voiced man she heard through the door, if it was, um, somebody that the “commercial woman,” quote unquote, was argu– was talking to or was visiting upstairs, or if it was the person that the neighbor heard arguing– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –with that woman. We don’t know. In March 1935, the Journal-Post announced that the unidentified man would be buried in a potter’s field. But shortly after that was announced publicly, the funeral home received an anonymous call, and the caller said, “I would like you to please delay the burial because I’m sending the money for a proper funeral.” 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: They asked who this was; wouldn’t say, hung up. But lo and behold, March 23, a special delivery envelope came containing cash wrapped in a newspaper, enough to pay burial expenses, and they buried the body at Memorial Park Cemetery in Kansas City. 

Em: And we’re thinking this was maybe that Don guy? 

Christine: Perhaps. 

Em: Which is interesting because I also think of him as the killer, in which case, like what is– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Why would you do that? Unless you felt guilty or– I don’t know. I don’t– 

Christine: ’Cause then you think maybe it was a lover’s quarrel. That’s my gut. 

Em: Oh, interesting. Okay. 

Christine: Why else would you pay for someone’s funeral that you harmed, right? I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah, or, or– 

Christine: If you’re abusive or whatever. 

Em: That’s a good point. My, my– I immediately went to like the mob, and he ended up being the wrong guy killed, and now the mob is like paying for the funeral. I don’t fucking know. I– 

Christine: I know, but they– Yeah, it cou-could be. But like they would just want you to dispose of it, right? Like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –I don’t think they would spend their money on it. 

Em: I don’t know why I’m making it so much more complicated in my head. 

Christine: I mean, some people think it is like mob just because of how strange it is and how mys– like secretive. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um– 

Em: But no, I think that’s also really not a bad call, a lover’s quarrel. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. I wonder– Yeah, and then I also thought like what if it’s a parent or someone who is estranged and like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –was disappointed by life choices or– Like if he was gay or something like that, maybe they just don’t want to associate– 

Em: That’s a– 

Christine: –but they still feel like they should get a burial. I don’t know. I mean, that’s just my kind of random take. But there was also another anonymous incident that occurred where , um– Nobody came to the– There wasn’t really anyone at the funeral because this was kind of a unknown person, um, but that day they did receive a bouquet at the funeral home. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: It was 13 roses and attached was a card that read, “Love for ever, Louise.” 

Em: Hm. Louise? 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: And, uh, they were purchased from the Rock Flower Company, if that’s– 

Em: Oh, that, that makes sense. 

Christine: –interesting to anyone. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Now we get it. [chuckles] 

Em: Interesting. Okay. So I wonder if Louise was like the wife he was cheating on? 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Or like was Louise like the guy’s nickname in public? Like, “Oh, this is–“ Like they had nicknames for each other in public so that way they wouldn’t have to out each other? 

Christine: Was it– Was “Don” actually a nickname for a woman that he was seeing maybe? 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And that was like the nickname, you know? I don’t know. I don’t know. ’Cause he kept saying like, “No, Don. I’m not hungry.” Like it was just– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: The Don thing always struck me as odd, but– Um, and then I was like, “Don, Louise, is there any connection?” 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. 

Christine: No, I can’t think of one. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: So Kansas City Magazine adds another chilling detail from a Kansas City police memo, which is that when asked why the original donor was paying for the funeral and– Like he wouldn’t say who he was, but he said, “I will pay for the funeral,” reportedly, he responded that this guy, mystery man, Roland T. Owen, quote unquote, “had not played the game fair, and cheaters usually get what’s coming to them.” 

Em: Mob again. See? 

Christine: But cheaters cheating. 

Em: That’s true. 

Christine: That’s more like– 

Em: I feel like maybe– 

Christine: –interpersonal. 

Em: Maybe it’s both. Maybe he was cheating on somebody, and they were connected to the mob, and the mob like was defending the person he was cheating on. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: Or the person’s partner found out and killed him because they were so pissed. I don’t know. 

Em: It could have been anyone. 

Christine: That’s a cliche. [chuckles] 

Em: I mean, that makes the most sense, yeah. I’m just trying to come up with anything. 

Christine: You want the mob to be involved. 

Em: I want the mob involved. 

Christine: [laughs] I mean, Kansas City, yeah, it’s not a, it’s not a terrible idea. Um, also some of it’s so creepy, like the laying in the dark and the notes and the leaving the door open– I don’t know. It’s just all so creepy. 

Em: Yeah, but that also could have just been like being depressed. Like it could have just been like– 

Christine: True. 

Em: –“I can’t believe they’re coming to get me. I’m so scared. Maybe I just like close my eyes and hope this is all fake.” I don’t know. 

Christine: What’s the note then? Like, who’s that for? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: I don’t fucking know. 

Christine: So– 

Em: This one, I gotta be honest, I’ve– I’ve done it again, just like Brad Korb. I will not be solving this. 

Christine: “I’ve done it again. I’ve given up on solving this one.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So finally in 1936, um, after the case was re-publicized (he’d already been buried), a woman named Ruby Ogletree of Birmingham, Alabama, recognized the man in the newspaper, this picture of him, as her missing son. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: His name was Artemus Ogletree. What a name. 

Em: I mean, fuck Mattie Moss or whatever it was. I don’t know– 

Christine: Yeah, right. I know. Artemus Ogletree is wild, dude. So Ruby explained, um, the head scar that he had as the result of a childhood grease burn– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –which matched the distinctive mark seen in the case photos and descriptions, and she also revealed that he was only 17. 

Em: What? 

Christine: Yeah, not 20 to 35. 

Em: Whatever he was running from, that stress was eating him alive if he looked in like he was in his 20s or 30s. 

Christine: Yeah. And some people say 19. Some– One source said 19, but the mo– the more , um– that– the local newspapers and that kind of thing said 17. 

Em: Although I, I actually– I take back what I said. Have you seen what 17-year-olds looked like in the ‘30s? They looked like grown-ass men. 

Christine: Right. ’Cause they– Yeah, yeah. I feel like people grew up quicker back then, , um– 

Em: But– 

Christine: –visually especially. 

Em: But maybe– I don’t know. I don’t know if back then if you saw someone who looked 30, you’re like, “Oh, that’s clearly a 17-year-old.” Like maybe they were still spot on that he looked old for his age. I have no idea. 

Christine: Well, and he was also wearing– And like who would expect, um, a man in a dark overcoat– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –at the hotel to be 17? Like they probably just assumed based on how he presented, you know, that he was also not– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: But it is like a 17-year-old to not pack clothes– 

Em: That is like a 17-year-old. 

Christine: –or a toothbrush but pack toothpaste. It’s also like me, but I sometimes operate like a 17-year-old, so. [chuckles] 

Em: That's a good point. I– Yeah. Hm. 

Christine: So it gets even spookier because she recognizes Artemus immediately, um, and she is able to corroborate the scar. Um, she reveals he’s only 17. After Artemus had left Birmingham, Alabama, which is where he was from, his mother had actually continued to receive letters from him sporadically. He wanted to travel the world. Um, he left with one of his friends and just said he wanted to go see California, and they left. And, uh, he would write. He would write pretty regularly, and at first, if there were gaps in the correspondence, um, she wasn’t like super alarmed ’cause back then you just had– kind of had to deal with spotty, um, spotty communication. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: But about a year into his travels, he suddenly stopped writing. And that was until the spring of 1935 when Ruby received three letters signed with Artemus’s name. The letters were sent from different cities, including Chicago and New York, and each letter described Artemus as traveling, recovering from illness, and moving forward with his life. But Ruby immediately noticed that the letters were typed rather than handwritten, and every letter she had received thus far from Artemus had been handwritten, and to her knowledge, he had not learned how to type. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So there’s no reason he should be typing her letters. Furthermore, the wording and slang did not sound like her son, and the explanations felt unusually detailed for the way he wrote. Kansas City Magazine quotes the typed letters as using some outlandish slang, including, “I got poisoned on something I ate in some dump.” And even that– In that line specifically, she said, “He would never say something like that. I don’t really understand why it sounds so different, why it’s typed.” Despite these concerns, Ruby just assumed like, okay, he’s just adapting to life on the road. He’s young. He’s changing. Who knows? Several months later, she comes across this article, right, that leads her to discover her son had been killed. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Only after identifying that Artemus was the one in the newspaper who’d been buried and killed did she realize– did she reexamine these letters she had received and realized they were all sent after his death. 

Em: Yeah. Well, could see that coming. That’s– Okay. 

Christine: Ruby then, naturally, concluded that someone else had written the letters intentionally to bel– make her believe her son was still alive. Um, there was never an author– and obviously knew him well enough to be able to say like, “Oh, I’m just like adventuring–“ Like knew the situation enough to– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –try and pretend to be him. Um, no definitive author of the letters was ever identified. We just don’t know. It’s just another dead end. That August, she also received something strange, but this time it was a phone call. It was a long-distance call from Memphis from someone who identified himself as Godfrey Jordan, claiming to have met Artemus in Cairo, Egypt, where Artemus– 

Em: What the hell? 

Christine: I know. It’s so batshit. –where Artemus supposedly saved him, this Godfrey Jordan, from a “band of thugs,” quote unquote. She was on the phone with this guy for 45 minutes and found it unsettling– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –but she didn’t really understand what was going on here. Um, very, very weird. 

Em: Did this guy– Like was– He was written about in the newspaper, um, Owen– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –when he– or Artemus when he died? 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Because I feel like anyo– It’s almost like– 

Christine: True. 

Em: –the equivalent of people now on Facebook seeing someone died and now like heckling their parents or something. 

Christine: And could just– would just want to like be part of the story or like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, like that teenage girl who called and pretended to be the missing– 

Em: Yes. 

Christine: Ugh, yeah. So yeah, it could just be, be like, um, a prank call but just also really strange, you know. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And like getting her phone number and stuff, it just seems like a lot of work. Um, but strange. So Kansas City Magazine adds that Ruby actually had a specific person in mind that she thought was behind this. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: She suspected that this person was Joe Simpson, the boy her son had originally left home with to travel. 

Em: Mm. And he was like trying to cover up his tracks? Or that– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: She believed he might have been the caller trying to sort of red herring her in a way. Um, probably wrote the letters, she thought. Ruby wrote that when she confronted Simpson on December 28 of 1939, she became, quote, “reasonably convinced” that he was the Memphis caller, and she described him turning red, dropping his eyes, and appearing nervous when she said she would recognize the voice. 

Em: Well, there you have it. 

Christine: Ruby also reported that Simpson laughed while calling it the “perfect crime” and said police would never get “the ones who killed him,” according to her letter to detectives. But then I’m like, wait, so he’s either really shy about talking about this and terrified and then he gets– starts laughing and says it’s the perfect crime. I don’t know. I just– The v– 

Em: Maybe. I– 

Christine: The vibes are off. I’m like, I don’t know I– if maybe she’s kind of exaggerating this event. I’m not sure. I don’t want to accuse her of that, but it’s just a strange– 

Em: It’s, it’s strange. 

Christine: It’s strange to report that he kind of did two opposite things in one conv– I mean, maybe, maybe. Um, [sighs] so another last bit here that’s a little bit strange:, um, the early 2000s, there was this guy named Dr. John Horner, who was very involved in telling the story and researching the story and giving it kind of, um, a written account. He reports receiving a call in the early 2000s from someone saying, “Hey, I’m itemizing this elderly person’s belongings, and I found this box of clippings and information about the case, and it looks odd and suspicious,” and even– 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: –said there was an item in the box that had been mentioned as part of this case. 

Em: Oh, fuck. 

Christine: And, of course, Dr. Horner is like, “Okay, like, bring it to me.” 

Em: “Found him.” 

Christine: “Bring it on. Who are you? What’s going on?”, um, they kind of said, “Never mind,” hung up– 

Em: What? 

Christine: –refused to engage as far as we know. Um, maybe, maybe he and this guy had a longer chat, but now it’s been 20-some years, so it feels like we didn’t get answers from that either because it’s kind of another dead end. Um, and that’s the, that’s the case. It’s like– 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: It’s a little too open-ended to kind of s– figure out, I think, to solve. 

Em: What do, what do you feel like happened? You still think lovers’ quarrel? 

Christine: No. I kind of think that maybe he and his friend– I mean, this is totally out of the noggin and off the dome here, people. I’m not, uh, making any allegations here, but– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –my theory is sort of like he went out into the world with his friend, his best friend, whatever. Maybe he slept with that man’s girlfriend– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and maybe this friend was so pissed off that he– Maybe they were gonna meet. Maybe he and the girl were gonna meet at the hotel, and then the guy found out– 

Em: Where he was staying. 

Christine: –came instead and killed him. I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Or maybe they left because they were together. Maybe they had a relationship. Who knows? Um, maybe he’s the one who also paid for the funeral. Um, it’s just odd. And, and why is he going by Don? 

Em: I, I– 

Christine: And why is Owen going by “Roland T. Owen” and the other names that he gave in the other hotel? I don’t know. It’s just so strange. 

Em: –feel like that’s the mob. Or I feel like it’s, uh– 

Christine: Maybe? 

Em: –someone they’re sleeping with and they changed their name so they could get away with– 

Christine: That’s what I– Yeah, that’s– Something like that where it’s like, “No, blank. I’m not hungry,” and like you’re kind of awkwardly like trying to sneak– 

Em: Like, “Get away.” 

Christine: –between the lines. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: But I don’t know. [sighs] 

Em: Interesting. Do we know what the item was in the box that– 

Christine: No, that is the one thing– 

Em: That’s so frustrating. 

Christine: –that like– Oh, it’s so frustrating. Like that was kind of the kicker of that call, and then they never– Yeah, we don’t know. 

Em: I don’t even know what that would do for my information, but I’m mad I don’t know what it is. 

Christine: I know, same. Same. 

Em: In my mind, that would solve it all, but it probably wouldn’t. Um– 

Christine: Yeah, the caller– 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: –apparently refused to say what the item was, and nothing further was resolved publicly. The person just hung up, didn’t bring the stuff– 

Em: And– 

Christine: –I guess got cold feet. It was probably like a parent or somebody they were related to and didn’t want to go there. I don’t know. 

Em: Is there like an overwhelming theory online about what happened or nothing? Just kind of– 

Christine: Not really. I mean, it’s kind of– I think it’s mostly just discussed because of how bizarre it is and how clearly it is not suicide. Like I know– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –we discussed the other case, um, recently but– in the hotel room where it was like staged as a suicide, but this one is not even possible ’cause there was no weapon. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So it’s sort of like we know someone else was involved but any– 

Em: Maybe the item was the knife. 

Christine: Ohh. Oh, shit. And they just have it in that box? Holy shit. Or the weapon– 

Em: I mean, I feel like– 

Christine: –whatever they hit him over the head with maybe or– 

Em: I mean, it’s got to be something that they wouldn’t want to release to the public. 

Christine: Or maybe his, um, his missing items? 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Like he had a necktie– or a necktie tag and something else in there that– Or no, no. Sorry, not the missing ite– the– not the ones left behind, the missing ones. So maybe like his toothpaste or his hairbrush or– [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –whatever they stole, um, or took. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: It's just weird. And then like all the Do– It sounds like an affair to me, but he’s also 17 or 18 or 19– even at that age, like– 

Em: Maybe he– 

Christine: I mean, I guess if you’re having an affair, but like you must have pissed someone off. You’re right. Like maybe a– pissed off a mobster, maybe pissed off his friend, maybe pissed off his fiance– 

Em: Even s– 

Christine: Maybe he was– Somebody said maybe he was– I think there was some clue somewhere that he could have been engaged, and maybe like he cheated on his, his fiance. Who knows? Who knows? 

Em: Could it be that he was out with his friends, hooked up with a girl, and then found out that she was married and then– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –that guy– to the mob maybe? And then– 

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah. I mean, really, yeah, it could be. 

Em: ’Cause then that would explain why we really don’t know who it would have been. It would have been a random guy, happens to be the husband of a woman he was sleeping with. That would explain maybe why the woman secretly sent flowers to the funeral because maybe she had feelings for him but couldn’t tell her husband. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: It’s not a, it’s not a bad idea. 

Em: I think he found a woman along the way and she was married. 

Christine: That’s what it feels like. 

Em: That’s, that’s my theory. 

Christine: Whether it’s that f– But then all the like follow-up phone calls are weird, you know? I just feel like the friend knew something if he’s acting so fucking shady. 

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Christine: But that’s also just like she was pretty hell-bent on that theory, so, you know, there’s nothing that technically– 

Em: I feel like maybe, maybe the friend knows that something was up but also doesn’t really know all the information. ’Cause like maybe this guy was– found this woman who was in a relationship and then knew he was in trouble that like the husband might find out and was trying to keep his friend at bay– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –and was like, “No, I’m not hungry. Don’t come here.” And then the other note being like, “Wait a minute,” ’cause he knows like this bad guy might be looking for him and doesn’t want to get his friend implicated. 

Christine: Oh, yeah, yeah. Could be. Could be like– 

Em: And then a– that random grown man being like, “I’m gonna kill him tomorrow.” I don’t know. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: That's what I think. 

Christine: Yeah, that guy too. That running– guy running around with no shirt on, scream– like, “I’ll beat up–“ saying, “I’m gonna kill him.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. That’s my thought– 

Christine: That I feel like has to be part of it. 

Em: That’s what I’m putting in. So if we ever find out the mystery– 

Christine: I think it’s some sort of love triangle or ch– infidelity. I do too. I agree. 

Em: Okay. Maybe we solved it. 

Christine: All righty. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Hey, we solved it. Congratulations. Um– 

Em: Thank you, everyone. Um, I’m so glad you got to see all 40 minutes of– 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: –this part. Uh, that was very silly. That’s okay. 

Christine: Stupid. 

Em: Neither of us noticed. It’s not– You didn’t do anything that I didn’t do. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: Um, it’s very funny that, uh, we’re still, still figuring it out. That’s all. 

Christine: The Yappy Hour wasn’t on video then. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Oh, well. I just talked about The Woolper News. It doesn’t really need video, I guess. 

Em: And apparently we’ve discussed it before, so I guess like– 

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah, go back to episode three-whatever. Yeah. 

Em: Go watch the episode where we did talk about it on video. Um, okay. Well, see you next week, everyone. Oh my god, everything just fell in my lap, and it’s a whole stack of papers, so. 

Christine: Cool. Uh, hopefully, we see you, and you see us. 

Em: [chuckles] Yes, exactly. And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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