E470 Leatha Weatha and Dirty Santa Texts

TOPICS: LAUREL HALL MANSION AKA BOWMAN ESTATE, THE TODT FAMILY MURDERS PT. 1

** Trigger Warning: Child Death **
It’s episode 470 and for the first time ever we’re both drinking tea! Before we crack into this week’s stories, Christine is joined by Taylar from Creeps and Crimes Podcast for a round of ParaPods Network speed dating! Then Em brings us to Vermont for the dark and slightly weird history of the haunted Laurel Hall Mansion. After, Christine covers the intense Part 1 of the Todt Family Murders, a case so wild that it must continue next week. So while you wait, why don’t you go chase some ghosts! …and that’s why we drink!

P.S. Happy 9 years of And That’s Why We Drink!!! We’re so grateful to all of you for listening to us whether you’ve just started, or been here from the beginning. Here’s to many more episodes!

Photo Links:
Laurel Glen Mausoleum Statue
Megan Todt and children

Catch Taylar over on Creeps and Crimes wherever you get your podcasts or visit https://creepsandcrimespodcast.com/ for more info!

Transcript

[drumroll leading into jazzy intro music with a stopwatch ticking]

Christine: Hello and welcome to And That’s Why We Drink. I, in a first ever event, have worn a red lip today for my date. Um–

Taylar: [chuckles] I love it.

Christine: I’m here with Taylar. We’re doing a fun, as Eva called it, “unhinged” speed dating segment. Um, I just– Taylar and I just kind of showed up, so we don’t really know–

Taylar: [laughs] We did.

Christine: [laughs] We don’t know what’s happening. Um–

Taylar: We have no idea what’s going on. I actually told Morgan, who recorded with Jeri last night– I was like, “I’m, you know, I’m so grateful that you got with Jeri, but I’m also even more grateful that I got with Christine, because one thing about me and Christine is we never know what the hell’s going on.”

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: “So this is gonna be the most eventful one.”

Christine: Yeah, and it’s– It’s just like okay that way. That’s just like how we thrive and live, you know.

Taylar: [chuckles]

Christine: We’re joined by Eva in the corner there with a buzzer–

[cuts to Eva holding a blue buzzer up to the camera briefly before cutting back to Christine and Taylar]

Christine: –and, um, she has a buzzer from Blockbuster. Don’t ask me where that came from, um, or why she owns it, but it’s here. It’s here. And we have some questions that we’re gonna ask, and Taylar and I obviously are ready to kick things off.

Taylar: We are ready to go. Red lips and red shirts and all.

Christine: Doesn’t it look like we’re– [laughs]

Taylar: Look at us.

Christine: And I’m gonna ask the first question. And Eva has this like buzzer up like ready [chuckles], ready to pause us.

[cuts to Eva holding a blue buzzer up to the camera briefly before cutting back to Christine and Taylar]

Taylar: Ready to go. [laughs]

Christine: Oh my god. No pressure. Okay, Taylar, I’m gonna ask you the first question here.

Taylar: Okay.

Christine: “Which random VHS tape did your family of origin watch on repeat?” And that–

Taylar: [sighs]

Christine: The subtext is “And why was it All Dogs Go to Heaven,” which is one that my family watched on repeat. [laughs]

Taylar: Right. Exactly. Um, okay. Do–

Christine: Oh, good. The timer–

[buzzer sounds]

Taylar: So do I have 30 seconds from–

[timer ticking]

Christine: Eva! [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: Eva’s just buzzing Taylar five seconds–

Taylar: “Hello?”

Christine: “Um…” [laughs]

Taylar: Okay. So I was an only child for the first like seven years of my life, and then my little sisters came. And by the time they came, CDs ar– were the only–

Christine: Ohh.

Taylar: –like DVDs were the only thing. So I was the only one with VHS. So it was me, and I was the queen of the house. So therefore, it was, uh, Snow White–

Christine: Ooh!

Taylar: –the original cartoon–

Christine: That’s a good one.

Taylar: –and I cried and screamed every single time that she did that like mirror transition. [groans]

Christine: It’s terrible. Terrifying.

Taylar: Terrifying.

[buzzer goes off]

Taylar: But I literally like ruined that tape, so.

Christine: Fantastic. That’s a good answer. This was sent in to us, by the way, from That’s Pretty Dark podcast.

[The video switches from Christine and Taylar to Eva holding the buzzer button as she accidentally presses it and looks up at the camera sheepishly. The video switches back to Christine on the left and Taylar on the right.]

Christine: Uh– Eva, will you tone it down?

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: I’m just kidding. [laughs]

Eva: It’s hard to do. [laughs]

Christine: I’m just, I’m just kidding. [laughs] I mean–

Taylar: [laughs] Just [makes a buzzing sound] bah! [laughs]

Christine: –it’s a 40-year-old button. I don’t know. [laughs]

Eva: [laughs] I keep forgetting– [laughs]

Christine: I don’t know.

Eva: [laughs] That was stupid.

Christine: It’s like three decades old.

[buzzer sounds before it starts to tick]

Christine: All Dogs Go to Heaven. I think, um, my dad tried to make us watch Dumbo a lot and All Dogs Go to Heaven, and I think he really–

Taylar: [sighs]

Christine: –was trying to push the like suffering of humans via the animal world. [chuckles]

[dog starts barking]

Taylar: Yeah, I was gonna say those are horrible movies.

Christine: Yeah, I–

Taylar: “You’re gonna be taken away from your pam– your family!”

Christine: –I had to hide Dumbo under my mattress. And it was like years later that, uh, we moved out, and my dad was like, “Why is this great film under the mattress?” Um, so–

Taylar: [chuckles] [sighs]

Christine: –it was a lot of traumatic events. Um, and then like that weird soccer one about green, green– Not The Green Mile. [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: The other one. The one for children. [laughs]

Taylar: Not Green Mile, please god. [laughs]

Christine: What is that green soccer movie?

[cuts to Eva, leaning in]

Eva: The Big Green.

Taylar: Hold on.

[cuts back to Christine and Taylar]

Christine: Oh, Green Machine.

Eva: Oh.

Christine: What?

Taylar: It’s not The Big–?

Christine: The Big Green.

Taylar: The Big Green. “Who was your first cartoon crush?” From @spookydelight_?

Christine: [sighs]

[buzzer goes off and restarts ticking]

Christine: I don’t think I realized what a– I don’t think I re– I don’t– It was probably a girl cartoon, and I didn’t understand what was [laughs] happening–

Taylar: Yeah, you’re like, “Why?”

Christine: –and I wanted to be her best friend. [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: But honestly, I don’t know. I feel like a lot of people’s answer is like that– like animal characters, and that always makes me feel a little weird to say aloud.

Taylar: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So I don’t–

Taylar: Yes.

Christine: I– This is so lame. I don’t really have an answer.

Taylar: Mm, I feel like a lot of people choose like Danny Phantom too. Like–

Christine: Yeah, that’s a good answer.

Taylar: –those people–

Christine: That’s a good answer.

[buzzer goes off]

Taylar: Okay, I have one. And I’ll just say it with the–

Christine: Is it from Snow White? [chuckles]

Taylar: The timer’s gonna be quick. Actually, not Snow White. Sully–

[buzzer goes off and restarts ticking]

Christine: [gasps]

Taylar: –from Monsters, Inc.

Christine: Whoa! Interesting.

Taylar: And I don’t know why. Like it’s not like I married a big burly man either.

Christine: Right.

Taylar: Like I didn’t. [chuckles] But it’s just like–

Christine: Maybe you should have. [chuckles]

Taylar: –for– maybe it was his voice. And who voiced him? Who vol– voiced Sully in Monsters, Inc.?

Christine: It’s not Billy Crystal, so that’s the good news.

Taylar: S– Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: Sully– Thank god.

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: [while googling] Sully, Monsters, Inc., let’s see. James P. Sullivan. Who are you, sir?

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: I’m like, “Who the fuck is James P. Sullivan? Never heard of that man a day in my life.”

Christine: It’s Taylar’s first crush. [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs] Like, wait. And what’s so funny is that was the–

Christine: James is– What if you didn’t say Sully? What if you said your first cartoon crush was James P. Sullivan? And we were all like [chuckles] “Who the fuck is that?”

Taylar: [laughs] “Who the fuck is that?” Um, okay. I’m gonna tell you who play– Okay, John Goodman. You know that man.

Christine: John Goodman. I sat next to him on an airplane, and he was literally the most delightful person.

Taylar: Was he really?

Christine: And he gave up his middle seat. He– Or he took a middle seat to like let somebody else sit in the aisle, and he sat next to me.

Taylar: And he’s a big man.

Christine: He’s a big dude. And he was like so kind, and someone said like, “I’m a huge fan,” and he was like, “Oh, that’s so sweet.” And then like he kind of joked– And like three different people sent him like whiskies, and he’s like, “Oh, I’m okay. No, thanks.” And I was like, “I’ll take them.” [chuckles] Uh, [laughter and clears throat] I’m gonna ask you the next one. “What is your dream reincarnation?” That’s from @mirrorballbookshelf.

[buzzer goes off and begins ticking]

Taylar: Oh my god. [sighs] I mean, uh, I, I would always love to be a cat. Like I think that’d be really nice–

Christine: Yeah.

Taylar: –to be a house cat. Just lay in the sun, eat my food, do the things.

Christine: Like chase some shit around and stuff like that.

Taylar: Uh, yeah. You know, play with my parents, annoy them at night. What about you?

[ticking stops]

Christine: Everybody and everything kind of sucks right now, so it’s sort of like–

[buzzer goes off and ticking restarts]

Taylar: Yeah.

Christine: –what does– what sounds enjoyable for me? Not really much. I mean, maybe like– [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: –maybe like a Robert Irwin’s family member. Like a family member of the Irwins [laughs] where I’m like just around animals. [laughs]

Taylar: That is such a great call right there. You nailed it.

[ticking stops]

Christine: Wow. Okay. Wow. Well, we did get a very specific answer for that question.

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] Um.

Taylar: Is it my turn to ask?

Christine: I think so.

Taylar: Okay. I’m even numbers, right? Okay. Literally, I don’t know how me and Morgan run this podcast–

Christine: Te– I have no fucking idea.

Taylar: –because I have no idea what I’m doing half the time.

Christine: I have no clue.

Taylar: Your listeners are like, “Is she gonna fucking ask if it’s her turn again? Like, serious–“ [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] No, don’t worry. Um, they’ll be like, “Christine needs to know what’s going on on her own show.” [laughs]

Taylar: So the next question is “How many seagulls would you have to find in your home to think that someone was putting them there intentionally?” From @__meganruth.

Christine: That is like a–

Taylar: Megan Ruth, that’s the craziest question ever.

[buzzer goes off and begins ticking]

Christine: That’s like a, a very high question to ask. Um, like a real seagull or like little statues of seagulls?

Taylar: [chuckles] I’m assuming a real seagull.

Christine: ’Cause both are alarming.

Taylar: Right?

Christine: Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, I don’t know that any amount would make me think s– If there were ten in my house, I’d be like, “Oh, an invasion of seagulls has occurred.”

Taylar: [chuckles]

Christine: I don’t know that I would like blame a person for it, but. Do you know? I don’t even know the answer.

Taylar: One. A singular–

Christine: One. [laughs]

Taylar: Th-there’s none here. Like I’ve, I’ve never seen a seagull in east Tennessee my entire life. So if someone bra– if a seagull would stay in my house, I’d be like, “Logan, this has to be a joke.”

[buzzer goes off]

Christine: “Who did this?” [laughs] Yeah, yeah. Okay.

Taylar: “Who the hell put this in here?”

Christine: Fair. Um, well, this one is interesting. “Were Ross and Rachel on a break?” Taylar, this is from @alyssamarie10.

[buzzer goes off and begins ticking]

Taylar: One of the most like poignant parts of that entire like section of the film was the fact that he did not respect her job– or film– the show was that he did not respect her job, that he just like kept barging into her office.

Christine: Correct.

Taylar: And he kept being like, “It’s just a job.” And she’s like, “You don’t understand. It’s something that like I– I’m actually good at and like I do.” And honestly, if a man ever like–

Christine: Mm.

Taylar: So were they on a break, who cares?

Christine: Who– That–

Taylar: He was disrespecting her.

Christine: That’s my answer. Irrelevant.

[buzzer goes off]

Taylar: Like who cares?

Christine: I-fucking-relevant. He’s just a dick. Like–

Taylar: It’s irrelevant.

Christine: –whether he’s on a break or not, irrelevant.

Taylar: And he’s just a big whiner baby. I–

Christine: Oh, he’s such a whiner.

Taylar: –just don’t relate to a whiner baby. If a man is a whiner baby to me, I can’t be a part of it.

Christine: I don’t have the time to be–

Taylar: Only women are allowed to be whiner babies. Only babies–

Christine: I was gonna say, I whine enough for both of us, you know.

Taylar: It really–

Christine: We don’t need another one. I mean, do you think like S– James P. Sullivan would ever be a whiny baby?

Taylar: No. Absolutely not.

Christine: Not, not a chance. [chuckles]

Taylar: That’s why he took that middle seat and–

Christine: Oh, that’s right.

Taylar: –and we’ll always bring him back. [chuckles] Christine, this is from @babyglow– _glowglow: “What was your AIM username?”

Christine: [gasps]

[buzzer goes off and begins ticking]

Christine: imalwayscrazy444.

Taylar: You know, I could have answered that for you–

Christine: I know. [chuckles]

Taylar: –because I’ve listened to your podcast for so long.

Christine: I was like– The amount Em brings it up. [laughs]

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: Everyone like– [laughs] Everybody probably already knows that.

Taylar: I don’t think I had one. And–

Christine: Oh, I guess you’re– Yeah.

Taylar: –in any like chatroom that I did have, I literally always just put my name–

Christine: Mm.

Taylar: –because I was like, “Well, what if you don’t know that it’s me?”

[buzzer goes off and stops ticking]

Taylar: And so that’s where we got–

Christine: I would just like make up fake names and be like, “I hope you don’t know it’s me,” ’cause that was just [unintelligible].

Taylar: Well, it’s so funny because everyone’s like, “What was your first email?” And like I had a few crazy fake emails–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Taylar: –that I still own to this day that I will never ever tell the truth behind–

Christine: [gasps]

Taylar: –because I have about like seven that I put in my “rotache” [rotation].

Christine: Hell yeah.

Taylar: But so everyone would be like, “What was your crazy email name?” And mine was literally taylarh@firstamericanquity.com–

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: –because that was my dad’s company, and he put me on there when he made me an email. [laughs] So like nothing here–

Christine: It’s always like the parents making the email, yeah.

Taylar: [laughs] Yeah.

Christine: “If an alien studied you for a week, Taylar, what incorrect conclusion would they reach?” And I think it might have something to do with anything we’ve said already ’cause I feel like–

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: –like the–

[buzzer goes off and begins ticking]

Christine: –the phones, the last names, the voice.

Taylar: The list goes on. Are you kidding me? They–

Christine: [laughs] The Sully crush.

Taylar: [laughs] Okay. Depending on the week that they hit me–

Christine: Fair point.

Taylar: Okay? If they hit me on ovulation week–

Christine: Mm.

Taylar: –they would be like, “This bitch’s face is so symmetrical.”

Christine: Wow.

Taylar: And they’d be like, “She’s so energetic.”

Christine: Uh-huh.

Taylar: “She goes and works out so much. She gets so much done at work. And she didn’t even have to take her second dose of Adderall. That’s how much she got done.”

Christine: Holy–

Taylar: And then they would catch me in my luteal cycle–

Christine: Mm.

Taylar: –and they’d be like, “She’s a raging crazy bitch.”

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: But that would be the correct– It would be correct–

Christine: Oh, okay. [laughs] Okay–

Taylar: –at that point.

Christine: –that’s at sort of the base level. Okay. I think it’s pretty transparent once you come into my home like what’s going on, you know?

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: I don’t know that like even during my ovul– which like I haven’t even thought to put that together. I think if I had a better understanding of what part of my cycle did what to me, I’d probably have a little grasp–

Taylar: It’s the, the day you wake up and you think your eyebrows look good. That– Like that’s– If I wake up and I’m like, “Wow, my eyebrows look so even today,” I’m like, “Oh my god, I must be–”

Christine: Are you serious? I don’t think I’ve ever woken up and thought I liked my eyebrows. So maybe– [laughs]

Taylar: It truly– No, it truly is about like the s– like how my face looks in the morning when I wake up.

Christine: Huh.

Taylar: Like some mornings, I wake up and I’m like, “Oh my god.”

Christine: “What’s happening?”

Taylar: “I think I “gua sha-ed” on only one side of my face last night.”

Christine: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Taylar: “Like what happened to her?”

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: [chuckles] [sighs] Okay. So the next one is, “Can you give me a ride after this?” from @wild_puff.

Christine: Taylar, I would give you a ride any day of the week. Ever since you came to that live show where you had to drive back with Morgan for work at like 4 in the morning–

Taylar: [laughs]

Christine: –and I was just like, “I cannot believe these people came all the way out there.”

Taylar: “These people are crazy.”

Christine: Um, “What is the most com–“ Oh, this is interesting. “What is the most common compliment that you receive?” from @kimberly.ariel.

Taylar: It really depends. Like if it’s about like me as a person–

Christine: Uh-huh.

Taylar: –a lot of people like my voice–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Taylar: –and I’m like, “Well, that’s literally the most highest compliment you could ever give me–“

Christine: For sure.

Taylar: “–because that’s literally my entire job, so.”

Christine: That’s– I just like when people call me funny. That’s my favorite compliment.

Taylar: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, I think that’s probably– [sighs] I don’t kno– You guys, I don’t know. Tell me my compliment– Okay.

Taylar: I know my favorite compliment that people give you online.

Christine: What?

Taylar: ’Cause I agree with them often. Um, my favorite compliment that your listeners– or not even, just anyone gives you online is like how, uh– What’s the word? Like how well-spoken you are–

Christine: Oh?

Taylar: –and how you actually can think a lot before you speak. I don’t have that gift.

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: Um, so the next one, the final one we have, is “Shout out your emotional support water bottle style, brand, color, sticker, situation, etc. if you have one. And if you don’t, why don’t you like hydration?” And this says a little note from Eva–

Christine: Oh, this is from– [chuckles]

Taylar: –“inspired by s– Creeps and Crimes talking about their emotional support water bottles.”

Christine: Ohh. Oh my god, Taylar, you inspired a speed dating question.

Taylar: [sighs dramatically] Oh my god, I’m really honored to be here–

Christine: [dramatically] Wow.

Taylar: –and get this question for everybody.

Christine: Okay, okay. Um, I have this beautiful, uh, Sta– big– It’s like this Stanley, and it’s the– It’s, it’s black, but it has chrome accent, and Eva mailed the– mailed them out to like the– a couple of us on the– two years ago, I think. Um, and it ha– Was it– This– It was last year, yeah. It has like our, our name on it and like a thirsty little rat like little icon–

Taylar: Oh!

Christine: –in like the chrome color, and it’s just like so–

Taylar: [gasps]

Christine: Like I feel like when I hold it, I’m like, “Ooh, this feels fancy.”

Taylar: Ooh.

Christine: I mean, unless you see the rat on the side, but other than that. [laughs]

Taylar: And then you see the big giant rat. [laughs]

Christine: And then it’s like just buckteeth. [chuckles] Um, but other than that– And then, um, you know it has like a little sticker that says “scrappy,” and I just–

Taylar: Aw.

Christine: I don’t know if it’s just my– That’s definitely my, my comfort one.

Taylar: That’s yours.

Christine: And it has my name in giant letters, and as a Gemini that like really speaks to me, you know.

Taylar: Of course it does.

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles]

Taylar: Yes, and I agree 100%. Here it is.

Christine: Oh. Oh! That’s a cutie.

Taylar: So this is my Ello, everyone. Morgan has the same exact one. They’re 22 ounce Pop & Fill. Hers is green. Mine is “yeyow” [yellow].

Christine: [laughs]

Taylar: And, um, but the reason why this is the best Ello water bottle– ’Cause they have multiple water bottles. It’s ’cause not only like I can throw it in my purse, and I’m okay, right?

Christine: Right, right, right, right, right.

Taylar: This is why it’s called the Pop & Fill, ‘kay? This little part pops up, and then you have the ni-nipple that you can like suck the water up through–

Christine: [chuckles] Uh-huh, uh-huh, uh-huh.

Taylar: –which is attached to the inside [opens the bottle] where there’s a straw.

Christine: Oh, you don’t have– Oh my god.

Taylar: So you can just fill up the water bottle without taking the straw out, and you can put the ice in without taking the straw out.

Christine: ’Cause I hate that.

Taylar: But if you need to clean it, you can screw the whole lid off.

Christine: Just take the whole thing off.

Taylar: And here’s another thing about this–

Christine: What will they think of next?

Taylar: [chuckles] They have a lock on the side.

Christine: [gasps]

Taylar: E-L-L-O. E-L-L-O.

Christine: Okay. Yellow Ello, “yewow ewo.”

Taylar: We’ve declared these the absolute– And this is the Pop & Fill. We have declared these the water bottles of 2026. Everyone wants to go Owala. No.

Christine: Wrong. [chuckles]

Taylar: We’re going Ello. We’re going Ello this year.

Christine: Do you feel it’s enough, enough water in there? Like do you fill it a lot?

Taylar: See– Okay, they have a larger one. And I– If I had the larger one–

Christine: I might want the larger one.

Taylar: –I wouldn’t have to fill it up as much as I want. So me and– [whispering] I’m gonna get me and Morgan one. And–

Christine: [gasps] I'll never tell.

Taylar: –we don’t do stickers on things because we’re pickers. So we pick everything off of everything.

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Taylar: And I think that was our last question.

Christine: Wow. Um, Taylar, I had the best time on our date.

Taylar: I had so– Hey, you want to see each other again?

Christine: Um, [pauses as if thinking about it] absolutely.

Taylar: [laughs] Imagine you say, “No.”

Christine: [laughs] Imagine. “Hm. Um, let me get back to you. I’m really busy.” [laughs]

Taylar: No, I’m all of a sudden blocked from all the ParaPods like emails and stuff.

Christine: Oh, it’s so weird.

Taylar: Are we in a competition? Did like– Do we win? [chuckles]

Christine: Did– I think we did. I’m pretty sure. Right, Eva?

Taylar: I’m pretty sure we won, right?

[cuts to Eva who nods and gives a thumbs up before cutting back to Christine and Taylar]

Christine: Anyway, well, thank you, Taylar. Go listen to Creeps and Crimes wherever you get your podcasts. It’s such a fun show. Um, Taylar and Morgan are just, just a delight, and they talk about the same shit we do. So it’s just bound to be a good time–

Taylar: All the same bullshit.

Christine: –um, for everybody.

Taylar: All right, guys. [laughs]

Christine: All right, on that note, thanks for listening, and, uh, I guess on with the episode.

[intro music]

Em: What the hell? What’s that?

Christine: [laughs] I don’t want to tell you.

Em: Let me guess. [laughs] Was that an apple slice?

Christine: No.

Em: Is it tuna and celery?

Christine: [chuckles] No, it is some bread.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Then I didn’t have anything to put on it, so I put butter, and then I put big hunks of mozzarella cheese off of a block.

Em: Why wouldn’t you want to tell me? That sounds delicious.

Christine: [laughs] Because–

Em: Was it to keep me from being jealous?

Christine: –it looks pretty gnarly. [laughs]

Em: I thought I– I saw a slice of something hit the ground, and I did see you eat that. That’s what we should be talking about.

Christine: I did eat that.

Em: Okay.

Christine: That's right.

Em: Um, unhinge your jaw, girl. [chuckles] You do what you gotta do for the bread. Um, that looked good. That looked delicious. I don’t know why we were hiding that from me, but, um–

Christine: It's just one of those like meals you look at and you go, “Oh, oh dear.”

Em: No, that’s how I feel about you and tinned fish, though.

Christine: That’s how like I am about most food, so yeah.

Em: Mm-hmm. Well, welcome to, uh, the Sickly Podcast. Christine is not feeling 10 out of 10 today, but–

Christine: Man.

Em: I bet you’re feeling at least one point better with that bread in your system, so.

Christine: I am. I’m feeling, I’m feeling okay. I just sound terrible.

Em: How long– How many days in are you?

Christine: Mm, four, five.

Em: Solid.

Christine: I feel better. I just sound worse. You know, when you– Near the end, you start to sound worse for some reason.

Em: Mm-hmm. Like your body’s trying to reset. [laughs]

Christine: Yeah. I sound worse.

Em: You sound–

Christine: But I–

Em: –fine. [laughs]

Christine: –I, I slept till like noon.

Em: You sound– You don’t sound as bad as I think you think you sound, but you do sound sick.

Christine: Mm, mm-hmm. Well, I’ve got tea. Speaking of–

Em: Good.

Christine: –drinking things.

Em: What type of tea? What do you put in it? How do you take your tea?

Christine: Um, thank you for asking. I– So I went to World Market with Leona, and they were selling these cute little honey sticks like, um– not like the honey stick that you– They’re like little stirrers, but at the end, they have like a little heart made of honey–

Em: Love.

Christine: –and you can like stir your tea. I was like, “What a genius idea,” ’cause I have honey up here, but it’s so sticky, and then it gets everywhere. And you gotta find a spoon to stir it, and it’s like [groans] ugh. Then you have a sticky spoon.

Em: It’s giving Shark Tank.

Christine: You know what? It is giving Shark Tank.

Em: Very innovative.

Christine: I think they’re gonna invest like a whole $300 in something like this.

Em: I– [laughs] For a stick?

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I certainly hope so.

Christine: S– Honey on a stick. And–

Em: [laughs] I saw– I don’t know if I saw, um, uh, I think I s– I think it was like some clickbait. I, I think I saw something about like Pete Davidson went on Shark Tank for like– was asking like $500,000 for his sock company. This had to be clickbait–

Christine: What? [laughs]

Em: –or I had a dream. Um–

Christine: Feels like an SNL skit or a dream.

Em: Well, I’ve been having to be really careful about what I’m seeing online these days because, uh, my mother and I have been getting, uh, into heated arguments about how I am not interested in keeping anyone in my life that’s MAGA, for obvious reasons.

Christine: Oh no. Your mother disagrees. She’s like, “No, come on. These people are nice.”

Em: She’s– She– Let’s put it this way. She voted the right way, and you know, she’s– We, we don’t need to throw hate at her. I think she still is trying to show some sort of compassion.

Christine: Like many of our parents–

Em: She’s– I–

Christine: It– Because–

Em: I’m not into it.

Christine: Because–

Em: I–

Christine: I’m not in– “I’m not feeling it.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: But in, in their day and– Oh, wait. Did we record? Yes, phew.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Sorry, I’m traumatized from last week. [laughs] In their day and age– [chuckles] In their day. In their elderly day and age– [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Now I’m gonna make– Now your mom’s gonna go no contact with me. Um–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Well, no. [laughs]

Christine: In their day and age though, it was like, “Oh, we could all get along.” And now it’s like things have not gone that way anymore.

Em: Well, I– And, um, I think our our generation, at least, uh, people I was surrounded with– I grew up in kind of country club living, so I was surrounded by people from a few walks of life. Let’s put it that way.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: And I remember it being normal that you could break bread with those people, but this–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –this is a different ball game we’re in now.

Christine: It’s become–

Em: And–

Christine: Totally.

Em: Um–

Christine: The stakes are much higher, [chuckles] you know.

Em: Much higher. And so my mom’s defense has been like, uh, for other people, not for herself, for anyone– Everyone, back up. Leave my mom alone. Um–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –but, uh, she said like, “Well, have you considered that maybe they’re not getting the same material or they’re not seeing the same things on their screen that you’re seeing and so they’re just not educated.” And I’m like, “Okay, then I’ll educate them.” And so I’ve been on Facebook recently, flooding my mom’s friends’ profiles. [laughs]

Christine: Yeah, yeah.

Em: So like, “I’m gonna save them.” I don’t know what’s wrong with me. I’ve just been bored.

Christine: I’ve, I’ve started getting information that says “Em Schulz posted on Facebook,” and I’m like, “What?” And then it like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –happens every day, and I’m like, “Is Em like really into Facebook now?”

Em: No, I’m not at all. But I’m just so frustrated ’cause I’ve, I’ve heard through the grapevine that, uh, people in Fredericksburg are upset with me because I no longer want to speak to them. And I’m like, “Okay, well then I’ll just show you why I don’t want to talk to you.” Um, so–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –I made it my personal vendetta for absolutely no reason. But I’ve been on Facebook recently, which has not happened in a long time. And now I have to double check everything I’m reading ’cause I’m like, “Shit, these people really have just been reading completely different information than me,” including Pete Davidson going on Shark Tank for half a million dollars with his socks.

Christine: What if that was a dream and you posted about it? And you were like, “This is real news.”

Em: That’d be silly. [laughs]

Christine: That’d be silly. Maybe it would– And now everything’s fucking AI. Who the hell knows? You know what I mean?

Em: But you know what’s wild? So I’ve been getting in fights with this one guy on Facebook who–

Christine: Oh, I think I saw him.

Em: Probably. He’s a–

Christine: Piece of work.

Em: He’s a nightmare. Well, he was from–

Christine: Oh, no. He, he for sure went on Shark Tank with some socks.

Em: Oh! Okay. So then maybe people on Facebook are getting accurate information.

Christine: You right, you right.

Em: Um, no. This one guy’s been a real nightmare, but he– My favorite part is– I’m not gonna say what I said. I was a little harsh. And then I, I regretted– I was like, “I don’t need what I have to say out there,” so I deleted what I said. But, um, he, he kept being like, “Really? We’re family,” and I’m like, “Babe, I haven’t seen you since I was four years old. What the fuck are you talking about? We’re not family.”

Christine: Family? Please.

Em: And also, we’re not. Like, “You’re a random guy from my town. What are you talking about?”

Christine: And also, so the fuck what?

Em: It– Yeah, exactly. Like I– I’ll–

Christine: I’ve cut out closer people for less, baby.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: You know, like fuck it. We’re burning it all down. It’s 2026.

Em: He said, he said something about like, “Whatever, you can just go chase a ghost.” And I was like, “I have–“

Christine: Chase a ghost? [laughs]

Em: Literally, I was like, what a weird fucking thing to say.

Christine: First of all–

Em: I was–

Christine: Did you know that that’s the thing that’s offended me the most so far?

Em: Well, he–

Christine: Now I’m pissed.

Em: Well, I thought it was very silly ’cause I– He’s very prou–

Christine: “Maybe I will!”

Em: [laughs] Well, I, I ended up saying like, “Um, it got me a job. So I’m pretty sure like– I don’t know what you’re complaining about.”

Christine: It got me a job? I made a job. I made a career out of it, you fuckhead.

Em: He– Uh, but the whole argument was about like deflection, deflection, deflection. And then I made a point, and he was like, “Whatever, go chase a ghost.” I was like, “Okay, well, whatever.” It– Anyway, so I’ve been having a lot of fun–

Christine: He knows he lost.

Em: –uh, a lot of fun on Facebook. Um, maybe that’s why I drink this week.

Christine: That s– That sentence has never been said since 2012.

Em: Yeah. And by fun, I really– It’s not fun. I just– I don’t know why I’ve brought this duty upon myself, but I think I’m over my mom defending, uh, people that are still in our circles. And I’m like, [scoffs] “I’m just gonna–“ Now they have no reason to not see what’s going on. And if they’re still in our circles, then I really– I can’t– I don’t have to defend myself to anybody, including my own family, at this point.

Christine: Mm.

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: Yeah. I know. Yeah. I mean, people just see things, and then they’re like, “That’s irrelevant to me ’cause it doesn’t fit my worldview,” you know?

Em: I know. It’s doing nothing.

Christine: You know, it’s– But I mean, it sounds like it did something with that guy, so that’s good. It got him all, all fucking worked up, so that’s nice.

Em: It– I kind of love that. But–

Christine: And like that honestly is beautiful in and of itself.

Em: Thank you. I really have no fucking business even doing this. I just– I, I think this is how my brain is reacting to cracking in half with the horrible news that’s coming out every day. I’m just like–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –“If I just flood other people’s feeds, then at least my eyes aren’t alone in this.” I don’t know.

Christine: [chuckles] You’re just like, “Let me just like–“ Yeah. [chuckles] Yeah.

Em: I don’t know.

Christine: Uh–

Em: Anyway, uh, w–

Christine: “Here, Derek.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I don’t know the guy’s name, but “Here, Derek, watch this.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It’s not Derek, right? ’Cause then it would be– And then I w–

Em: No, that would be so crazy.

Christine: Phew.

Em: Um, anyway, so I guess that’s why I drink that I’ve like become one of those like– I don’t know. I’m not like proud of myself for doing it. I just– I think I– I don’t know why I did it. I need to talk to a therapist. Anyway, um–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] –your turn.

Christine: Um–

Em: Why do you drink, Christine? [laughs]

Christine: Okay. [laughs] I drink ’cause my phone keeps like giving me Facebook notifications. It’s like, “Em Schulz shared three posts on F–“

Em: [laughs]

Christine: And I’m like– And you know what it keeps saying is “Em shared posts you missed”? And I was like, “That I missed? Like what is happening?” [laughs]

Em: I–

Christine: And then I always think like, “Is this some sort of life update?” The way Facebook is making it sound, it’s like, “You’ve missed Em’s major life updates and–“

Em: [laughs] My big-ass milestone–

Christine: Yeah, Em and Derek–

Em: –where I’ve gone nuts. Yeah. [laughs]

Christine: Well, Em and Derek, the fight, that one I was glad I went into my notifications and got a little, little peep on that. But, um–

Em: The battle royale. No. Um–

Christine: Battle royale. [laughs]

Em: I, uh– It’s mainly the exact same things as I’ve been posting on Instagram or wherever I can post them. But, uh, I’ve just– I have a new audience now, and so I’ve actually found some– I didn’t know this, but I was assuming there were some people who had– who were on the wrong side of history in my hometown who I have found out are very on my side and have actually like jumped on the comments also, which is very wonderful. And like–

Christine: Oh, that’s always so like satisfying when you see people that you were like not sure where they would land and then they’re like, “Yeah, no, burn this shit down,” and you’re like, “Oh, thank god.”

Em: You know what I was– the, the most beautiful of them all is– This never happens, but there were three men from my hometown who all apparently voted in our favor, which I did not see coming, and they all were like defending my post to that shitty guy. And I was like, “Oh my god.”

Christine: To Derek?

Em: “I’m just watching men fight over me. Ah!” Um, it– [laughs]

Christine: Oh, Em, how does it feel?

Em: [sighs dramatically] It’s been– I’ve been waiting my whole life.

Christine: Especially when they bring up like Trump and–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –immigrants and you’re like, “This is so–“

Em: “it’s about me.”

Christine: “–so romantic.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Um– Oh, I wanted to show you. I, I told you last week that one of my favorite, um, newspapers in my town is The Burbank Bulletin.

Christine: That’s right.

Em: And I wanted to let you know that Brad Korb has done it again. Um–

Christine: You don’t say.

Em: Burbank Bulletin. [holds up the front page of newspaper with Burbank Bulletin across the top] And then let me, let me–

Christine: Please.

Em: –let me just prove this to you ’cause I–

Christine: Now, this is–

Em: I went–

Christine: Talk about breaking fucking news. Facebook, step aside. I want to know about this situation.

Em: I went looking for it ’cause I was like, I literally just– It came in the day that we recorded.

Christine: It’s meant to be. This is called analog breaking news, people. Okay? Children–

Em: This is, this is the original Facebook post I would have–

Christine: That’s right. This is the– This is where Derek fucking has to sit down and just accept the facts.

Em: [laughs] Derek, look with– look within yourself.

Christine: Look within. Look at the– Fucking Derek. Pick up a Burbank Bulletin and fucking eat, eat rocks.

Em: Read that again.

[Em holds up a page of The Burbank Bulletin. At the top of the right column, it says “Brad Did It Again!” with a photo below of a man holding a sign with a woman. The sign reads “Brad did it again!” as well.]

Christine: Kick ro– Brad did it again. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Brad did it again. Wait. “Brad–“

Em: I’m showing–

Christine: [reading the photo’s subtitle in the newspaper] “Brad Did It Again with the sale of Quirina’s house in P–“ What does that say?

Em: Brad–

Christine: “–Panorama City.”

Em: In Panorama City. Yeah, Brad did it again.

Christine: Fucking hell yeah, Brad.

Em: He does it every time. Every goddamn month this comes out, Brad has done it again, so–

Christine: I can’t. It really–

Em: Part–

Christine: In a world full of darkness– [laughs]

Em: [laughs] You know what? I could always rely on Brad Korb. Um–

Christine: I mean, we need a little bit of sunshine, you know.

Em: I feel like at this point, one– there’s gonna be a month where Brad Korb doesn’t do it again, and he’s gonna be like, “Cut the press. I don’t even want–“

Christine: I was gonna say like there’s not gonna be a– an issue. Like what, are they gonna release an issue without Brad doing it again?

Em: Well– It’s like, “We, we can’t let people know.”

Christine: Although, I would say like the day he doesn’t do it again is the day that that newspaper fucking sells out through the roof. You know what I’m saying?

Em: [laughs] I would make Brad Korb sign it. I’d be like, “I need you to–“

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “I need you to know that I’ve been waiting for this day.”

Christine: “This is history.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “We thought you could never do it.” Um–

Em: [sighs] Um, anyway, that was, uh– I– As soon as we finished recording, it showed up at my door, and I went, “Well, I got to see if Brad did it again.” He has indeed.

Christine: The fact that this thing– Wow. It’s– Wow. It’s good. It’s good.

Em: Thank you.

Christine: I needed that little like light of sunshine in my life. Thank you.

Em: Mm, you’re welcome.

Christine: Are we both drinking tr– tea?

Em: [groans] Finally.

Christine: We never have done that. [laughs]

Em: 470 episodes, we finally did it.

Christine: It’s only nine years in. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I finally figured out how to drink a cup of tea, I think. I’m trying anyway.

Em: I–

Christine: I’m not very good at it.

Em: We, we got stuck on the honey stick, but do you put anything else in it or is it just honey?

Christine: Um, sometimes, I put a splash of milk. Um, if it’s like an Earl Grey situation, I put like a little splash of milk and honey. But, um, you know, today, I’m just rocking with like the honey stick, and it’s kind of, it’s kind of a vibe. I like it. Um, yeah. Got me some Harney & Sons– You know those pretty ones?

Em: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Christine: Those pretty tin containers that then I keep and tell myself I’m gonna fill with wild flowers someday.

Em: I understand. I–

Christine: [laughs] They just fill with dust.

Em: Well, I have, um– I, I put out an Instagram post about it, and I would like to also leave it to, to the masses over here as well.

Christine: Oh, I saw this.

Em: I, I still don’t really know what to do because everyone kind of gave the same answer, but it wasn’t really an answer I was looking for. Um–

Christine: I was gonna ask what the cons– what– So you were looking for s– for a way to turn the scent of this tea that Allison doesn’t usually drink, this loose leaf tea, right?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Into–

Em: Into like a candle or something.

Christine: Okay, okay, okay.

Em: And a lot o–

Christine: To, to extract the scent and use it for something else.

Em: Yes. Allison’s obsessed with the smell, but neither of us will drink it. It’s just the smell that we like. Um, but I’m so tired. It’s been sitting with us since the last apartment. Like I’m tire–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: I’m tired of this. I don’t want this anymore. Um, I’d rather use it for good and not take up space. You know what I mean? We already live in a kind of a small spot, and the spot where all of our coffee and tea goes– Like this is a big bag of loose leaf tea, and I’m like, it’s got to get out of here.

Christine: Yeah. It’s got to make room.

Em: So I’m trying to find a way to keep the scent but get rid of the tea, and a lot of people said, um, like wax melts or something– or like, um–

Christine: Ohh. Oh, to put it in. Okay, okay.

Em: Are those just little candles? Am I mixing it up with something else?

Christine: Mm-hmm. So a wax melt is more like you have little like, um, shapes of the hardened wax, and then you put it on like a dish or something, and you put like a little tea– tealight. They make can– They make max well– Bye.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: They make wax melt warmers. [chuckles] That’s weirdly hard to say. Um, and you put it in like a little dish, and then the light like kind of melts it, and it like makes a really nice smell.

Em: I see.

Christine: Um, and–

Em: I– It blows my mind that a candle is not just that. Is, is that not just a big wax melt? It literally–

Christine: Well, there’s no fire involve– Well, I guess there is fire if you’re using–

Em: Oh, it’s–

Christine: –a little candle underneath. But it’s more just like–

Em: Flame resistant.

Christine: –it heats up little, and then you can reuse it, right? So it’ll like kind of harden, and you can light it– I have a candle warmer that’s like just a really– It’s a light bulb, and it like warms the candle and melts the wax–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –and then it lasts a lot longer.

Em: Nice, okay.

Christine: Sort of like that.

Em: Maybe that’s what I– Maybe everyone’s– I mean, everyone’s saying either that or like, um, uh, melting it for like an oil diffuser or something or like–

Christine: I think that’s probably really similar, yeah.

Em: Okay. Well, I don’t– I just wish I could just get someone to come over here and–

Christine: But like that seems like a lot of work.

Em: ’Cause I don’t– I would love to just throw it in like a candle and then burn it, but I feel like burning it isn’t– it’s not the same thing.

Christine: Mm, yeah. Can you see what the ingredients were? Like is there a way to see what’s in it and then like kind of try to replicate–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –what scent she likes a lot?

Em: Probably. I mean it’s literally just an Earl Grey tea, but there’s something about this Earl Grey tea.

Christine: Ohh, delightful.

Em: So I’m like– I’m not– I’m no, I’m no magician, you know.

Christine: Why won’t you drink it? It doesn’t taste as good as it smells?

Em: It does not taste as good as it smells, but it–

Christine: Mm.

Em: I mean, it tastes fine, but it’s like I– She would prefer to smell it compared to me drinking it.

Christine: Understood.

Em: The wants are different. And, um, uh, also I’m not a big fan of loose leaf tea. I want– I like tea bags.

Christine: Yeah, I get that too.

Em: Loose-leaf freaks me out. I feel like I’m just drinking stems.

Christine: You are. [laughs]

Em: I know. And one’s gonna slip in there, and then I’m paranoid for every sip. I’m like, “What got in my mouth?” So.

Christine: What about the little– [Christine holds her fingers up in the shape of a ball or container.]

Em: It’s not– It doesn’t work. I don’t care.

Christine: Really?

Em: I don’t care. I don’t want to hear it.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I don’t want to hear it.

Christine: Okay.

Em: It’s literally never worked.

Christine: But what about– No, I’m kidding. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Unless there’s an airtight lock on it. And even then, it still has little holes. The whole thing’s made of holes. Something’s gonna get out.

Christine: Yeah, it’s got to be made of holes, you know, ’cause of the water.

Em: Like I want my tea to look like this at the bottom. [holds up the bottom of their clear cup of red tea, which has nothing floating or settled at the bottom]You know what I’m saying? I want there to be nothing.

Christine: Just a plastic container. [laughs]

Em: Just– [laughs]

Christine: A plastic container. Yeah.

Em: Um– Oh, I– I– Well, never mind. The time has passed. I was gonna say another reason why I drink, but I just realized that we– that we’ve done that already. Um–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –but next time. Next time. I’ve got one in the chamber for the future.

Christine: Ooh! Whoa.

[glass clinks - start of ad break]

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors]

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break]

Em’s Story – Lauren Hall Mansion aka Bowman Estate

Em: Okay, I have a story for you, Christine.

Christine: Thank god.

Em: And, uh, we– I don’t– We’re gonna learn together because I did these notes a bit a– wh– a bit ago. So let’s find out together. This is–

Christine: Oh!

Em: What?

Christine: That was gonna be my big thing.

Em: What?

Christine: Sorry, Em. [laughs]

Em: What?

Christine: This is like the third day that– It was like– I was– We were supposed to record Thursday–

Em: Oh. [laughs]

Christine: –then I was like, “Let’s record tomorrow. “Then like an hour before, I was like, “I’m freaking out. I’m never gonna get these notes done,” and then now we’re here, and I’m sick, and it’s just a mess. Anyway, I apologize–

Em: N-no.

Christine: –’cause then I was like, “Oh, poor Em’s not gonna remember their story ’cause it’s been like a week.” And anyway.

Em: That’s never stopped me before. That’s fine.

Christine: Okay, fair enough.

Em: This is the– The main name for it is the Laurel Hall Mansion–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –although I have seen online it also being called the Bowman House, but it’s the Laurel Hall Mansion. So–

Christine: Laurel Hall is prettier.

Em: And it was named Laurel Hall. Bowman House is just named– It’s like the house that the Bowmans lived in, but the Bowmans named it Laurel Hall. So like–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: –shouldn’t we respect them?

Christine: Even they knew it was a nicer name.

Em: Have you figured out yet what your, your family house would be named? I’m so tired of this, Christine.

Christine: I– [chuckles]

Em: Just figure it out.

Christine: Wh– You’re tired of it? I– You’re the only one that brings it up. [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Keep waiting.

Christine: Um, I like the Christine Cap– Chapel is fun. But that was–

Em: I think that’s hysterical.

Christine: But that was my name, and then that, that includes nobody else in the house, which is fine.

Em: I mean–

Christine: [laughs] Which is fine by me.

Em: –I’m not gonna tell. That’s fine.

Christine: Let’s do it.

Em: [chuckles] That’s beautiful. Um, let’s see. I mean, Gio’s Castle, there might as well be a Christine Chapel attached.

Christine: Gio’s Castle is cute ’cause that does sound like a video game.

Em: It does. I love that.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um, and also, if you were to say Giovani’s Castle, sounds–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –it sounds like a Muppets place adventure.

Christine: Okay. Something just fell– Okay. So these headphones are really old, and they have like these little like, you know how they– the–

Em: Pullaways?

Christine: –pe-peels off. Yeah. But like it looked like something just fell out of my hair–

Em: Oh?

Christine: –because I was moving it and something big– just a chunk fell. And I want people to know that was the headphones, and it was not like–

Em: Not a spider or something.

Christine: –a gross thing out of my head–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –out of my hair. Just so you know.

Em: Okay. I– Thank you. ’Cause I didn’t see, but I’m, I’m glad I don’t have to worry.

Christine: I just don’t need that slow-mo of like just something– See, look?

Em: I think it’s on your shirt right there, yes.

Christine: Yeah, it is. It’s like this gross like, uh, whatever this is.

Em: It’s be-beautiful.

Christine: Thank you.

Em: Mine is still pretty solid. And then–

Christine: Mine is fucking destroyed.

Em: Mine, mine are pretty good. And, uh, when I was last at my aunt’s, uh, for Thanksgiving, I, um– I don’t know if stole is the right word, but I took without permission. Um–

Christine: Borrowed.

Em: Yeah. Well, I took without permission, uh, headphones that once belonged to someone who lived there and now they no longer live there, and so–

Christine: Oh, that counts.

Em: –and that– And they– When they left, they said they took everything and anything that was left in their house was up for grabs. So I went, “ [chuckles] Okay, thank you.” So–

Christine: Yeah, that’s the definition of–

Em: They were nice headphones.

Christine: Hell yeah. Are those them?

Em: No.

Christine: Oh.

Em: I’m waiting for these to crap out, and then I’ve got nice new ones. But, um–

Christine: Got it, got it, got it, got it.

Em: But these, these have lasted a long time. These went on like two tours with us.

Christine: Yeah, they look f– they look much more put together than these obviously.

Em: No, y– No, yours look– yours literally says “studio” on top. That’s so fancy.

Christine: I think so. It does, doesn’t it? Mon–

Em: “Studio monitor.”

Christine: What the fuck does that say? Oh, “studio monitor.” It’s upside down and backwards in my, in my view.

Em: [laughs] Um, here we go. This is the Laurel Hall Mansion. It is near Cuttingsville, Vermont.

Christine: Mm.

Em: And, uh, it is i– And so my understanding of it, which you’ll realize my confusion, my understanding of it is this is an entire estate where like we’re just talking about the mansion specifically.

Christine: Oh, okay. Okay.

Em: Which technically makes it a manor, by the way, ’cause if I have not screamed this enough, a manor is just the main house people live in on an estate of buildings.

Christine: [gasps] I know you’ve screamed about it, but I do appreciate the re-up in information. Thank you.

Em: Thank you. So this technically the Laurel Hall Manor–

Christine: Manor.

Em: –but [scoffs] less educated people than me decided to name it Laurel Hall Mansion.

Christine: [scoffs] Pathetic.

Em: Disgusting. So–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –uh, this “mansion” is directly across from a cemetery, which is important.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: The cemetery is similarly named. This will confuse you because the, the mansion is Laurel Hall; the cemetery is Laurel Glen.

Christine: Okay.

Em: You don’t have to care about that anymore, but just know that I took the time to write that down.

Christine: Thank you.

Em: Um, so there’s a mansion acro– the mansion is across from the cemetery, and in the cemetery is the Laurel Glen Mausoleum.

Christine: Oh?

Em: So the Laurel Glen Mausoleum and the– and Laurel Hall mansion are owned by the same people.

Christine: Okay.

Em: They just pick the worst fucking similar names. Um, the mansion, fun fact, I don’t know about the mausoleum, but the mansion is on the National Register of Historic Places. And our main character is John Bowman.

Christine: Mm.

Em: He was a tanner, and he made his wealth selling leather goods to the Union during the Civil War. And he was, I guess, especially famous for his boots and shoe soles.

Christine: You know what’s so funny is nowadays, like if you do that job, you’re basically like a bespoke Etsy creator.

Em: You’re l– “I’m a cobbler at heart,” yeah.

Christine: Right? Like “I’m a leatherm– leather good– leather good– I make leather good– fine leather goods the old-fashioned way.”

Em: [chuckles] Now it’s a hobby.

Christine: Yeah. And it’s also like a, like a business, but it’s like a really like up there like fancy business–

Em: You’re totally right.

Christine: –’cause you’re selling things for high prices ’cause it’s homemade– handmade, I mean.

Em: And if you do work in leather in like a, like a, an old cobblestone shop ran by grandpapa–

Christine: Oh!

Em: –at one point and you’re the fifth generation leatherman of your time, um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –this is not information for you, but I need everybody else to know that um, if I needed a leather good today, I wouldn’t know where to go except Etsy. So–

Christine: Yeah, I would have to like look for local leather goods [chuckles] makers.

Em: So if you are that leatherman, um, or tanner or– I need you to really start promoting yourself, um, get a Gen Z-er to do your TikTok, and you’ll be fine.

Christine: And then Em will find it. [laughs]

Em: And then I’ll know exactly where to go.

Christine: Instead of Em googling where to find leather goods, I– we would like you to make a–

Em: To get viral, go viral.

Christine: –to get viral so we can find it.

Em: 100%.

Christine: So we can– Actually, so it can find us is what we’re trying to say, yeah.

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] I really, I really– You’ve already done–

Christine: The onus is on you.

Em: –enough with the leather work, but I need you to do one more thing. Um–

Christine: That's right. So we’re gonna get on TikTok later. It’s just gonna be fucking–

Em: Leather, leather, leather.

Christine: –“homemade leather goods.” Actually, it’s gonna be like “leather goods, $2.99 off the TikTok shop.” [chuckles]

Em: I think we should redo the SNL bit of “sweater weather” [pronounced “sweata weatha"], but make it “leather weather” [pronounced “leatha weatha"].

Christine: Ah, that is good.

Em: Now, that’s what I think.

Christine: That is good.

Em: Use that– To the tanners who are trying to build a TikTok and get famous, leatha weatha.

Christine: Yeah. Yeah. Em, you told them to use Gen Z folks.

Em: Hm?

Christine: Now you’re trying to come up with ideas, and I feel like you’re immediately kind of giving them conflicting and–

Em: I’m using Gen X references too.

Christine: That’s exactly what I was gonna say next. And also kind of the content is a little bit outdated. [chuckles]

Em: I’m multigenerational. Okay, this is why it’s not my job.

Christine: Do that thing the Gen Zs do where they’re like, “I had a Gen Z intern film my thing,” and like Mamdani’s was like “[stammering sounds] Yay!”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Uh, you know, like do that.

Em: You know, if it worked for him, it could have worked for any–

Christine: It was pretty good. And even I saw it, and I’m not very youthful, so. [laughs]

Em: Well, so John Bowman, he was that guy when it came to the union. We love.

Christine: Mm.

Em: And I didn’t see anything about any other team, I’ll tell you that. So I think he was just– I’m gonna assume he’s one of the good ones. I’m also gonna assume he’s one of the good ones because not only was he super successful, he was loved by his employees. He literally not just like made sure that they could afford to live, he, with his own wealth, built them houses so they would have homes. Um–

Christine: Oh, that’s nice. Brag.

Em: And then whatever the average wage was at the time, he doubled it. So he doubled their– the minimum wage, which I think at the–

Christine: What?

Em: I know. It– So we love him.

Christine: Okay. But then I ask why.

Em: Hm, interesting that you went that way.

Christine: Like it’s one thing to like give– I know. I’m immediately like–

Em: “What’s your agenda?”

Christine: –suspicious.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “Are you trying to use– Are you trying to use money to control me?”

Em: “You want me to work twice as hard? Is that what you’re saying?” Yeah.

Christine: “Are you trying to put pressure on–“ Yeah, exactly, Em. Thank you.

Em: I got you. I g– I mean, it’s fair. We can’t ask him. Do you have a Ouija board?

Christine: Do I have a Oui– Stupid question.

Em: We could find out tonight.

Christine: Okay. How about during the– Tonight. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Tonight. Okay. How about, uh, how about during the Yappy Hour, I will open my ghost a– What is it called again? GhostTube.

Em: GhostTube, which I used recently.

Christine: ’Cause I– Oh, good. ’Cause I– Oh, and we can discuss your use of it because also I just went, um– you know we love a Rocket Money, and I just went on there the other day, and it was like GhostTube subscription. I was like, “Oh, shit,” but instead of canceling it, I was like, “I gotta use that more.” [laughs]

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: So [laughs] how about today we use that.

Em: I love it. Love it.

Christine: Got it. Great.

Em: Great. Um, so he, uh– This John Bowman, he married his true love, Jenny–

Christine: Aw.

Em: –and they got pregnant. They had a daughter, Addie. Unfortunately, Addie had scarlet fever and died in infancy.

Christine: Aw.

Em: And a couple years later, they had their second daughter, Ella. But in her early 20s, Ella mysteriously fell ill and also passed away.

Christine: No…

Em: Um, and I say early 20s because some sources said 19; some said 23. Anyway, her early 20s.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: And we don’t know how she passed away, but the thought is something in the realm of typhoid, cholera, scarlet fever, or consumption, as we, as we love it.

Christine: That’s too bad.

Em: Um, Ella was their only child that survived into adulthood. So when she passed, John and Jenny were devastated, especially devastated.

Christine: Mm.

Em: And six months later– This is like the real kicker. Six months after they had to grieve their daughter, Jenny also died.

Christine: Oh my gosh.

Em: So he’s going through it.

Christine: Oh no.

Em: He’s going through it.

Christine: Oh no.

Em: And right before she died, the two of them had been discussing building their dream home to distract from the grief.

Christine: Get out of here.

Em: I know.

Christine: This is so sad.

Em: I know.

Christine: And it’s– D– You said it was a few months later, right?

Em: Six months later.

Christine: Which like–

Em: You haven’t even begun to grieve after– by six months.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s just the shock has worn off, and now you’ve got a whole new shock.

Christine: Uh, the shock has worn off, but also it’s not like she was already sick so you were like preparing for like losing two people. It’s like, “Okay, we’re, we’re ready now to grieve that.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And it’s like, “Nope, now here’s another thing.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like right as you think like you’ve passed that grief. Oy. [sighs]

Em: Yeah. Um, so– And the, the irony of like one of their last conversations being like, “How do we deal with this grief?”

Christine: [groans]

Em: And then she dies, and he’s like–

Christine: Terrible.

Em: –“Well, fuck. And now– I didn’t even know what to do then. Now I don’t know what to do at all.”

Christine: Terrible.

Em: Well, now that he’s alone, he’s grieving his wife and his daughter, and I’m sure still grieving, you know, his, his other daughter who passed in infancy. Um, John decided to go through with it anyway as one of Jenny’s last requests, and he decided he was gonna build what would have been his family’s forever home.

Christine: Mm. Oh my god, that’s so dark.

Em: I know. It’s like–

Christine: But also like so, I mean, beautiful in a way of like he had something to do, you know, like a, like a, a mission.

Em: To me, it feels like, um, even though she thought that she was requesting this for him, she was actually like almost giving him a task. Like she was before she passed–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –she got to give him–

Christine: Like one final big project.

Em: She got to tell him what to do.

Christine: Right.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: In her honor almost.

Em: Yeah. That’s how he looked at it. It was like “if she were here, we would be doing this,” and–

Christine: Can you imagine how guilty you’d feel though on your deathbed? You’re like, “ [sucks in a breath] Sorry–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–I would have waited.” Um–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: They, um– What was I gonna say? Oh, so they lived in New York, but they came back home to hi– they, he came back home to his state of Vermont.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, and found this one spot he could build, which was across from Laurel Glen Cemetery.

Christine: Okay.

Em: And so, simultaneously, not only did John build himself their dream home, but across the street in the cemetery, he built a mausoleum for his family to be interred.

Christine: Oh.

Em: So we’re gonna talk about the mausoleum first. Um, even though the house, the house being haunted is what we’re focusing on, the mausoleum is still important to the story. So this was, uh, during the first big wave of spiritualism, and funerals and memorials were an especially busy business. They were very lavish. This was like the Victorian era, so everything was very gaudy and through the roof and–

Christine: I– Yeah–

Em: –and–

Christine: –yeah. As someone who lives in a house that was reconstructed in the 2000s to attempt to look like a Victorian style, it’s something else really–

Em: It– Yeah.

Christine: –with all the like gilded, you know, curlicues–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –shit like that.

Em: And also–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Actually, we– Remember when we went to the, um, Winchester House and they were telling us all about like the Victorian mourning period?

Christine: Oh, that was crazy. Yes.

Em: I wonder how much of that played into like his grief–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –in building this house because like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –talk about properly mourning in a Victorian way of like, “I’m gonna build you a house and a mausoleum.”

Christine: Yeah. And like the, the, the pomp and circumstance behind the grieving back then was like–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: – qui– something. Yeah.

Em: Um, so in his mourning, he put his full focus into construction and aimed to have the best mausoleum in the whole cemetery. Um, and r– he put it right at the edge of the cemetery’s road, so that way it was like directly across from his house–

Christine: Aw.

Em: –so he could always watch his family.

Christine: Oh my gosh.

Em: I know.

Christine: Oof.

Em: Um, please hold. I’m gonna listen to what Hank’s telling me to do.

Christine: I was like, “Em, do you think he’s talking to you?”

Em: [chuckles] I’ve officially snapped if that happens.

Christine: I was like, “Okay.” [chuckles]

Em: No, I j–

Christine: “It happens to the best of us.” [laughs]

Em: I know like I’m gonna take a page out of his book–

Christine: [laughs] I see.

Em: –and he’s slurping away, but that’d be crazy.

Christine: I was like, “It sounds a little bit like he’s just making dog noises, but.”

Em: It’s like, [chuckles] “Allison needs to come home.” [laughs]

Christine: Yeah, I was gonna say you’re really having a moment there.

Em: First time arguing with people on Facebook? That’s literally not my style at all usually, but I, I can’t stop it all of a sudden. I don’t know what’s going on with me. Um–

Christine: I mean, maybe you found like a new outlet. You’re like, “This is actually really fun.” ’Cause also like you’re not as sensitive as I am, and, and that’s a compliment. I mean–

Em: Oh, thank you.

Christine: –not anymore really, but–

Em: Oh, okay. [chuckles]

Christine: –back in the– No, no, no, no, no. Sorry. What I mean is you are never as sensitive as I was. I’m much better about it now, but like–

Em: Gotcha.

Christine: I would get like so bent out of shape if somebody commented something and you’ve always been just like, “Whatever, fuck them,” you know.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like you’re better at that. So I feel like maybe you’re f– you found like a new passion project. [laughs]

Em: I think– Well, I, I think I’m– I think the main motivator has really just been like I’m tired of people using the defense of like, “Oh, well, they don’t know,” and it’s like there’s no way you can’t fucking know.

Christine: But also that’s bullshit ’cause first of all, that’s bullshit.

Em: I just–

Christine: Second of all, that’s bullshit.

Em: Yeah. And I think my, my original motivator with this was like, “If that’s how you really feel, then I’ll make sure that they do see all this stuff just so you–“

Christine: Yeah, your mom’s probably regretting that.

Em: “–can’t use that argument anymore.”

Christine: She’s like, “God dammit. Em’s just like fucking all over the feed.” Yeah.

Em: Yeah. It–

Christine: I love that you’re making a name for yourself over there.

Em: I don’t even know if I am. P-Probably it’s– none of it’s even being seen or–

Christine: If Em didn’t share on Fa– if I wasn’t friends with Em on Facebook, I would never have known that Pete Davidson went on Shark Tank–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –and won [chuckles] and got an investment.

Em: I’m so glad I pushed that to you. I’m so glad.

Christine: And you know what? Go, go hunt a ghost. You know what I’m saying?

Em: Go chase a ghost.

Christine: Go chase a ghost.

Em: Go chase a ghost.

Christine: “Go chase a ghost” is so good ’cause it’s like “go kick rocks,” but it’s like way less of an insult. It’s not f– It’s not– It’s just good. Like it’s like, “Okay, guy. Yeah, I will. Fuck you.”

Em: It w– It– And I– In any other circumstance, I would say like that was a good one. But–

Christine: That was a good one, yeah.

Em: But the fact that like it was like he really thought that was a good one makes it not a good one. Like especially–

Christine: But that makes it so much better to me ’cause I’m like, “Oh, I love that this guy thought he was insulting us when really like I would love nothing more than to go chase a ghost.” Okay?

Em: M– I think his whole bit is thinking he’s really killing it, like re–

Christine: Which makes me laugh.

Em: [chuckles] Um, anyway, I– And there–

Christine: “Go chase a ghost!” [laughs]

Em: There have been a few other people who’ve said things too. But he’s like– I’ve been– Wh– This is how I know that my stuff is getting pushed through people’s feeds, even if they don’t ch– want to see this content–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –is because since I started pushing stuff out non-stop– I’m not tagging anybody. I’m just putting it out, and hopefully, it lands on your–

Christine: You’re a content farm.

Em: Yeah. Yeah. And, um–

Christine: [laughs] Yeah.

Em: And he has now been posting just as much shit as me and tagging only me every time to be like– as a gotcha.

Christine: Oh, so you’re getting him spiral– He’s spiraling.

Em: I’m sp– I’m freaking him out, which I love. I love. Um–

Christine: Okay. Good, good, good.

Em: And I’ve even been writing things– Like whenever he tags me, I’ll write like, “Weird how obsessed you are with my opinion,” like– [laughs]

Christine: No, literally. “Derek, like you’re being really fucking weird, dude. Like chill.”

Em: Like it’s crazy. Like– And also like– [sighs] Anyway. Uh, [sighs] he’s a piece of shit. Okay, so let’s see where we are now. Okay, he decided that he was gonna put a mausoleum at the foot of the cemetery so he could always watch over his family.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: The cemetery– I had a hard time understanding what was going on in the world of my sources because some people were covering only a part of it. Anyway, what I have gathered is that this incred– this cemetery was not very flashy. It was actually like maybe kind of small and not being taken care of. But he came up with some sort of agreement with the town that he would then– he would fund improvements for the entire cemetery if he could put in this like really flashy mausoleum.

Christine: Oh, okay.

Em: Um, I think, I think the agreement was something like if you were born in this town, like a– you have a free–

Christine: This guy.

Em: I know. I don’t know.

Christine: Community-minded, you know what I’m saying?

Em: I’ve always said that about him.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: We’ll have to tell him about that later on the Ouija board–

Christine: Ooh!

Em: –or on the GhostTube. [laughs]

Christine: Yeah, write that down for sure. On the GhostTube.

Em: Get him on the horn.

Christine: Ring! Ring!

Em: [chuckles] Get him on the horn.

Christine: [singing to the tune of “Bananaphone” by Raffi] ♪ Ring-ring-ring-ring-ring-ring-ring, the GhostTube. Wop-bah-bah-dah-dah-dop. ♪♪

Em: Oh?

Christine: You know? [laughs]

Em: Yeah, I do, I do know now. Um–

Christine: You don’t know what y– You don’t know what I’m singing?

Em: Mm-mmm.

Christine: Oh no.

Em: Was that a jingle you c– That wasn’t– You created that?

Christine: No, it’s a Raffi original, “Bananaphone.”

Em: Oh, ban– ♪ Ring-ring-ring– ♪

Christine: ♪ Bananaphone– ♪

Em: ♪ Bananaphone ♪♪

Christine: ♪ –doo-doo-doodle-doodle-doo ♪♪

Em: Sorry, I actually don’t always have Raffi at the front of mind, but, um–

Christine: Why? [laughs]

Em: [laughs] You know, if you–

Christine: First of all, talk about a fucking activist. He wrote a song about Minneapolis. He’s like anti-fascist. Like he and, he and Miss Rachel are on like this next level like–

Em: I gotta say Raffi–

Christine: –social agenda.

Em: –Raffi gets me going. And it– By the way, I think we’ve had to have talked about this at some point hundreds of episodes ago. However, if you don’t mention “Joshua Giraffe,” I don’t want to hear it.

Christine: We’ve had an extreme– You’re right that we’ve discussed this because I hadn’t known about “Joshua Giraffe,” and then you told me about it, and I looked it up, and it upset me.

Em: Oh?

Christine: And I thought, “This is not the Raffi I remember,” um.

Em: That was during his like rebel years, I think.

Christine: Yeah, clearly he had– he kind of like veered off track for a minute. Um, my favorite album is where he’s dressed as Papa Noel on the cover, and it’s, um–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –his Christmas album, [chuckles] and I, I made everybody listen to it Christmas morning. And Blaise was so ill that he could barely sit up–

Em: Love it.

Christine: –but he’s sitting there, and I’m– It’s like, [singing] ♪ Papa Noel ♪♪ [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: And I made everyone sit there like 6 in the morning and listen to it. Um, anyway, “Bananaphone” is fucking oh, next level.

Em: I’m sorry I didn’t catch the reference right away, but you were right. I should have known. I should have known.

Christine: [singing] ♪ Wah-wah-wah-wah-wah-wah ♪♪

Em: Um, anyway, shout-out to Joshua. I miss you every day. Um, haven’t thought about you in a long time.

Christine: Who’s that again?

Em: The giraffe.

Christine: Oh, the giraffe.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Oy vey.

Em: Oh my god, there’s a dog at the dog park named Joshua. I fucking hate him.

Christine: Joshua?

Em: Don’t get me started.

Christine: Please.

Em: I have never hated a dog more in my life. Every time–

Christine: But what if the dog were a giraffe? Would that make it different?

Em: No. I hate him–

Christine: You don’t think if you met a giraffe and they were like, “This is Joshua,” you’d be like, “Oh my god, I get it”?

Em: Oh, yes. I thought you meant if Joshua, the dog, dressed up as a giraffe for like Halloween.

Christine: Oh, no, I mean like if it were a literal giraffe, then–

Em: If I met a giraffe and his name wasn’t either Geoffrey or Joshua, we’re fucking done.

Christine: Fair– Good. Fair.

Em: Case closed.

Christine: I get it now. Giraffe has the “juh” sound. I was about to ask why they all sound like J-names.

Em: Well, also Joshua Giraffe for Raffi, Geoffrey Giraffe for Toys R Us ’cause I’m not an idiot.

Christine: J–

Em: Let’s start there.

Christine: Okay. Well, let’s st– [chuckles]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Wow. Let’s get back to basics.

Em: Let’s start back at day one.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Geoffrey Giraffe.

Christine: Do not pass go. Do not collect $200.

Em: Although, you know what I can’t stand about Geoffrey Giraffe is it’s Geoffrey with a G.

Christine: Oh, well–

Em: Geoffrey [pronounced “gee-off-ree”].

Christine: It’s kind of got to be. You know why?

Em: I know with the giraffe. I know.

Christine: I know.

Em: I don’t like it. Anyway, if you know a dog named Joshua and he goes to the dog park from 4 to 6, tell him this. How about that? [Em flips off the camera.]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Okay? Big old middle finger from me.

Christine: Jesus. Em just like put a giant middle finger to the camera.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Em– Okay, so first of all, Derek has gotten Em like on a new one.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Em is like–

Em: I feel like Derek and Joshua know each other.

Christine: Goddamn, Em’s on a tear here. Like, like, “Oh, yeah? You want the Derek treatment, everybody? Sit the fuck down.”

Em: I– I’ve literally had people at the dog park text me when Joshua was there, and they’re like, “Don’t come. Joshua’s here.” And I’m like, “Thank you for telling me.”

Christine: Oh–

Em: I can’t stand this dog.

Christine: –my god. You have–

Em: And he can’t stand me, by the way. And he can’t stand Hank. He–

Christine: Well, I wouldn’t stand you either if you couldn’t stand me.

Em: He like actively the– It’s, it’s the owner. We all know it’s the owner, but it’s also Joshua. I really have a problem with both of them. [chuckles]

Christine: No, I was gonna say it seems like it’s a little more than that.

Em: Um, it’s both of them. The owner does not seem to care that Joshua is actually vicious and then like starts real, real bad fights. Real bad fights, especially with Hank. And like Hank is terrified, and it– it’s very bad. It’s very bad. I’ve had–

Christine: And with the name like Joshua, it’s like, “Joshua, heel,” you know? It just feels insane.

Em: I can’t sta– And then the guy, he just like– he’ll see it happen, and he just keeps scrolling on his phone. He’s such– I don’t even want to talk about it. Okay.

Christine: Yuck.

Em: [groans] Anyway, where were we?

Christine: Deep breath.

Em: This fucking cemetery. I swear to God, this– these were short notes. I just can’t stop myself. The cemetery was not flashy. He decided that he was gonna help build it up so that way he could put his mausoleum there. And, um, when it came to the cemetery’s remodeling (this is a quote), “He greatly improved the cemetery, turning it into a smaller version of an elaborate park cemetery. And besides enlarging the cemetery, his extensive improvements included an 800-foot cemetery wall with three gates, walks and carriage drives, shade trees, two fountains, and benches.”

Christine: Wow.

Em: He really said, “I–“

Christine: Lovely.

Em: “–I’ll give you a cemetery.”

Christine: This is a park now.

Em: I love when they used to be parks. Anyway–

Christine: Sometimes they still are, but yeah, it’s not, not, not co– not often.

Em: You don’t see a lot of park cemeteries these days.

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: Um, I think this is how we ended up with the “estate” definition for this place because technically there’s land on one side of the street, and he owns–

Christine: I see.

Em: –property on the other side, and he’s also funding the stuff going on on the other side.

Christine: Right.

Em: Um, plus during his expansion, um, each of these properties seem to like bleed into each other, and he built even more buildings on the property between his house and the mausoleum. So it just became a–

Christine: Building, building out his, his whole estate.

Em: –an industrial complex of sorts.

Christine: Oh, nice.

Em: He, um, he built a conservatory or a greenhouse.

Christine: Wow.

Em: And keep in mind, this was so he could– he built all this just so he could give his family a nice place to like be. Um, but he– My favorite part was that he added this greenhouse, and it was just so he would always have fresh flowers for them. [groans]

Christine: Please.

Em: If he wanted to, he would, folks. I’m just saying.

Christine: Get out of he– [laughs]

Em: Even when you’re dead, if he wanted to, he would. Um–

Christine: But seriously.

Em: And I think even though that was the original intention, now I think they use the, the greenhouse area like for all the flowers in the cemetery. I think they’ve like really put it to work now.

Christine: Ohh.

Em: He also built cottages for his caretakers. He built barns. He built an ice house. Um, and as for the mausoleum itself, it took 125 workers just to build this one mausoleum. It’s huge.

Christine: Jeez.

Em: It costs the equivalent of $2.5 million today.

Christine: Whoa.

Em: And it’s made of like seven– This is a quote, “750 tons of granite, 50 tons of marble, 20,000 bricks, over 500 barrels of cement, 10 barrels of plaster, and 100 loads of sand.” Like, it’s fucking huge.

Christine: What the fuck?

Em: The entire– The inside of it is almost entirely made of marble, including marble busts of his wife and daughters. And–

Christine: The fact that the– that’s the inside.

Em: The inside. Like–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –like crazy. And then the real kicker and what this mansion is most known for now, because tourists will go, and they always remember this one thing, which is across the way from the mansion when you look at the cemetery and you look at the mausoleum, outside of the mausoleum is a life-size, I think marble, statue of himself in grief.

Christine: Oh no.

Em: It’s a little scary looking of a statue. Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –if you were five, you might not want to stand next to it to take a picture with it.

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: Um, but it’s outside the mausoleum. He’s in funeral clothing. He’s holding a funeral wreath and a key to the tomb so that one day he can also go in.

Christine: Oof.

Em: And he’s looking into the vault, mourning.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Yeah. This is a man who loved his family. I mean, this is a–

Christine: Here's the thing. This is a man with a vision.

Em: You know, yeah. And like one that will–

Christine: An artistic vision.

Em: –keep– It will perpetuate after he’s gone.

Christine: Oh, for sure.

Em: Which– It’s, it’s weird that he built a st– I feel like a statue is usually commemorative of a person after they’ve passed, but the fact that he’s stood next to that statue–

Christine: [chuckles] He’s p–

Em: –and has since passed. It’s kind of trippy.

Christine: That’s like so trippy. Can I look up a picture of it?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: ’Cause I’m just curious. What’s his name again? Um–

Em: Laurel Ha– Uh, Laurel Hall Mansion statue.

Christine: I’m like so curious. Is he like crying in it?

Em: No, I only saw one picture of it, and he’s just like sad. He’s just kind of like–

Christine: Oh, that is–

Em: You can tell he’s in grief.

Christine: That is like a, a wild– Oh, dear.

Em: Like as a child, I would be scared because it’s just like a large man kind of hunched over and looking sad. But as a, as an adult, I’m like that’s clearly he’s just like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: Oh, wow. Yeah. He just looks sad. He has his hat off, and he’s like clutching it to his chest.

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Christine: He's leaning on the mausoleum like to– for– to steady himself. I mean, it’s very–

Em: It’s a great statue.

Christine: Oof, wow.

Em: It’s like an obvious– It’s o– You don’t have to wonder what it’s all about. Um–

Christine: Ooh. And then you can fill– He– You can fill it with different flowers. Like he has like a spot in his arm where you can like fill it with a bouquet.

Em: Yeah. So he has a funeral– He’s holding a– his top hat and a funeral wreath.

Christine: Wow.

Em: And I think you can put flowers in the wreath. And then, um, he’s also holding a key to the tomb, I think.

Christine: Wow. This is something else, man.

Em: Which like I’m– And I like that the statue– I know I just brought this up, but the statue was built by someone who was still alive. I like that he was able to approve it. Like this is exactly how he wanted it to look.

Christine: Oh, yeah. He’s like, “That looks just like me.”

Em: Yeah. He’s like, “I get it.”

Christine: “Nailed it.” Oh, inside there’s like a little, a little, little baby, um–

Em: Yeah, he ha– he has–

Christine: –statue playing.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Oh, that’s sad, dude.

Em: Um, yeah, it’s very, very sad.

Christine: Oof.

Em: This was just the mausoleum across the street. At the same time, remember, he’s also doing construction, building his wife’s dream home on– across the street.

Christine: Oh, right. [chuckles]

Em: And when that was done– They were built within like one or two years of each other, they were finished. Um, but the mansion was 21 rooms. It had 16-foot ceilings. It had– It had every kind of room you could imagine. It had music rooms, grand parlors. It had, um, uh, a– Oh my god, why can’t I– I’m– Imagine a room. It’s got that. Um–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –then they’ve got– It has a wraparound porch. You know, I love a wraparound porch.

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: It has a tower. You know, I love a tower.

Christine: Love a tower.

Em: Um, ornate wallpaper. It had electricity. It had–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –temperature-regulated running water, which was unheard of at the time. It had baths. It had porcelain sinks. It had stables. It had fire hydrants on the property.

Christine: Wow.

Em: It was very–

Christine: Fire h– Oh my word.

Em: –very state-of-the-art.

Christine: He thought of everything.

Em: So fun fact, this, um, was designed by a guy named G. B. Croff, who I think you would have wanted to use for your own house because his designs– He was known for, I guess, making Victorian mansions, but they were specifically extra haunted-looking.

Christine: Yeah, I love that.

Em: He was known to make exaggerated Victorian buildings. So I think the, the one, um– One of the sites I looked at said that he would build things a little extra jutted out, so when the sun hit it right, the shadows were more intense–

Christine: [gasps] Sharper angles.

Em: –and stuff like that. Yeah.

Christine: Oh, I love it. I love it.

Em: Love him. So anyway, fun fact, it was designed by that guy. And sadly, because he wanted this to look like his wife’s dream home, even though his family was no longer with him, he still put in all the bedrooms that they would have wanted.

Christine: Oh, wow. So this is, this is sounding very Sarah Winchester, you know.

Em: Yes. Yeah. They would have–

Christine: Like–

Em: –probably done well in group therapy together.

Christine: Right, like not letting go of, of your grief, you know, for better, for worse. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Um, John Bowman had, uh, multiple bedrooms built in– into the home, at least four of them, which we assume, would have been for his family, and a guest room. Um, and despite the fact that– This is a quote f– This is like the saddest quote I saw in any of the sites: “this mansion was built for a man who had no family.”

Christine: Oh, dear.

Em: My god, it was so sad. Despite that, uh, he, he built all those rooms. And again, this was when spiritualism was very normalized. And so it’s rumored that around the time John began talking to close friends and staff about the afterlife a lot. Um, very Sarah Winchester. Good, good catch.

Christine: It is. I just– I can’t stop thinking about it.

Em: It seems that he maybe built Jenny’s dream house, and so close to her and their daughter’s bodies, um, because then maybe they would be drawn to the house or it would be easy for them to find him again, so they could all be reunited.

Christine: Like as ghosts?

Em: As ghosts, I guess. Just so that they could be with him.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Um, other rumors, um, are that he actively got into studying the occult and he was looking for ways to bring his family back.

Christine: Ah.

Em: And I don’t know what that means, but that’s the rumor.

Christine: Okay.

Em: He used the house as a summer home basically, and he used it to like entertain friends sometimes. So he wasn’t there all the time.

Christine: [chuckles] “Come on over.”

Em: “Come on over. Look at the mausoleum.”

Christine: “Come on over. It’s a really normal, happy, not at all sad time.”

Em: [chuckles] “Don’t look in the bedrooms. Uh–“

Christine: “Don't look out the window to the cemetery.”

Em: Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: “That’s– That looks like me, but it’s not.”

Em: Yeah. “And a-actually, the statue, we’re gonna have people cover that up when you come over ’cause–“

Christine: “It’s a perfect replica of me if you’re asking.”

Em: “–it’s– I’m gonna have to explain myself otherwise.”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: When he wasn’t there, he had staff offer tours. So it was already like a museum when he–

Christine: Oh, wow.

Em: –was alive. He was really prepping for what was gonna happen after the fact.

Christine: He’s like quite a businessman though. He’s like– He’s got it down.

Em: He was like, “I– If I’m gonna do this and I’m al–“

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: “–I’m not– I might as well make some money off of it.” But when he was staying there, he’d spend his time looking at the mausoleum mostly and often walking across the street just to sit with his wife and kids.

Christine: Ooh.

Em: They said he would go over like every day after dinner and just sit with them. Oh my god.

Christine: Ooh, ooh.

Em: It–

Christine: I mean, I guess I can understand that ’cause you’re just like a, a walk away, and you can just chat.

Em: Sure. The–

Christine: It’s just so sad.

Em: Just sad. At the end of his life, he did move into the house permanently. He did pass away there, and he was also interred in the mausoleum. When he died, though, he– In his will, they found $50,000, which today would be $2 million–

Christine: Oh my word.

Em: –with a note for it to be for future upkeep of the mansion. Um–

Christine: Oh.

Em: And with this money, by the way, came some very odd rules for the the staff um, that pointed to him really rooting for this existence of an afterlife–

Christine: Okay.

Em: –’cause remember he was like, “What if– Hopefully, they can come find me and live in this house with me, and that’s why I built it.” This is a quote: “His will allegedly stated that he wanted his caretakers and servants to act like he would be coming home each evening. So in addition to mowing the lawn and tending to the gardens, servants would change the bedding each night as if he would want to come home to a fresh bed to sleep in. Fires would be lit, and the cooks would prepare an elaborate meal which would be presented in the dining room – just in case he showed up unannounced one night and wanted a warm supper.”

Christine: From the dead?

Em: From the dead. So–

Christine: Oh dear. Oh dear. Okay, this is becoming a little bit r-rough.

Em: I think he was thinking– ’Cause I also– My understanding was that it was like the table had to be set for four.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: And I think he thought, “Hopefully, when I die and find them, we can all live in this house together.”

Christine: Uh, that’s not how that works, bud.

Em: I know. Um, also like what do we do with the food then? Did the, did the staff go like, “It’s been sitting for 20 minutes.”

Christine: I hope they get to eat it, yeah.

Em: “Can I have it?”

Christine: I mean, it just feels so like strangely wasteful in a weird way. I don’t know.

Em: Yeah. And I, I, I hope that maybe they didn’t have to cook meals, but they just had to set the table, and then it’s like symbolic of like, “Oh, they could have dinner together.” But it sounds like cooking fucking meals.

Christine: Doesn’t it say elaborate meals?

Em: Yeah. It was also allegedly stated that this would be done, like I said, for the whole family, including his wife and daughters, and the table would be set for all four, so that if they found each other on the other side, they could all come home and have family dinners together.

Christine: Oof.

Em: But in 1953, the funds of $2 million finally ran out after over 60 years.

Christine: Wow.

Em: Which means over 60 years of your job being putting out food for people who won’t eat it. That’s crazy.

Christine: Oh dear. Oh dear.

Em: Um, items in the home were auctioned off. No more dinners were, were longer made, and the mansion was basically rented out to people.

Christine: Wow.

Em: And eventually, it was handed over to a couple who converted the mansion into a, quote, “haunted bookshop.”

Christine: Okay, but imagine the day he does come back, and he’s like, “Where the fuck is my veal–”

Em: “Where the fuck is my food?”

Christine: “–veal cutlet? What the fuck?”

Em: [laughs] Um, yeah. I’d be pissed honestly if I was– I’d be like, “Where’d the money go?” And we’d be like, “It’s been 60 years, dude. The–“

Christine: “We’ve literally fed you 60 times over.”

Em: And also, in today’s world, $2 million would get you like a year of food.

Christine: For sure. Yeah, $2 million– 60 years is wild.

Em: Insane. Um, I’m surprised that they– Yeah, that it lasted that long. They should have, uh– It would have been fun if they could have made it last 100 years, and then like the centennial was like the final meal, you know.

Christine: Oh, the last supper.

Em: You know, I would make it a themed party. I’d be like–

Christine: I know you would.

Em: –one last time.

Christine: That might be when he shows up. Can’t resist.

Em: [whispers] That’d be so nice.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: I’d be so honored. I’d be like, “[chuckles] He showed up for my party. Oh my god.”

Christine: Aw.

Em: The house is now maintained by the local historical society and holds tours and open houses for people throughout the year. But the mausoleum and cemetery are open to the public where you can see the mansion across the way. You can see the statue, which, by the way, is covered in the winter in case you’re going there to see it. Um, it seems that today the house is haunted, and maybe John was right that his family has finally reunited–

Christine: I mean, it seems like he–

Em: –and they live in the house together.

Christine: –he put that ener– like he put that energy so much into it, it wouldn’t surprise me if there is some lingering energy of the whole family, you know.

Em: 100%. I w– I, I feel like if that doesn’t work, I don’t know what would at this point.

Christine: Exactly. Exactly.

Em: ’Cause like to manifest–

Christine: Like to conjure something, yeah.

Em: –before death and then after death–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –be living out your own– It would be–

Christine: And to really believe it and like act on it and spend money on it and put resources and time and energy. You’re 100% right. The manifesting of that is int– insane.

Em: Cinematically, this would be a wonderful movie.

Christine: TM.

Em: TM.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: People claim to see a flickering light in the windows now as if someone’s walking through.

Christine: Aw.

Em: People feel someone, uh, watching them on the stairs. People have seen shadows moving around them. They hear conversations when nobody is speaking, including (this is how the movie would end) a man, a woman, a younger woman, and a baby all talking with each other–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –as if they’re like all reunited. Um–

Christine: Oh…

Em: –people also hear a baby crying and see a woman walking through the mansion as if going about her day. So like she’s finally getting to live out what she would have.

Christine: Wow.

Em: One source said that staff have straight up seen the Bowman family all “gliding through the rooms” together.

Christine: Aw.

Em: And when the building has been leased out, one family’s husband was skeptical, but his wife and daughter swore that the place was haunted. They would wake up, um, to a woman standing over their beds. They would wake up to hearing a baby crying, and they couldn’t find the source of it anywhere. On one tour that happened at this house, a little girl stuck her tongue out at a painting, and the painting threw itself off the wall and hit her in the face.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Now, that is some Scooby-Doo shit. I love it.

Em: I’d be like, “Don’t disrespect me.” Yeah.

Christine: I’d be like, “I’ve been waiting for someone to stick their tongue out at me for hundred of– hundreds of years.”

Em: [laughs] I like how since the 1800s, sticking your tongue out at someone really is like such a–

Christine: I guess so. Maybe it meant something way worse back then, you know? [chuckles]

Em: Maybe. I wonder what the– where it first came from. Like what’s the origin to sticking your tongue out of somebody?

Christine: Maybe it’s just innate.

Em: Interesting. Yeah, bleh.

Christine: It’s just like an innate reaction.

Em: Um, there is a dark stain in the house that people think is blood–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –um, which would mean that it has to be John’s blood because nobody else ever lived there– or someone who had an accident and didn’t tell anybody on the tour. Um–

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: But apparently if you step on that bloodstain, people feel incredible dread.

Christine: Yeah. I mean, I would argue most bloodstains I step on wouldn’t bring me joy.

Em: That’s a– You know what?

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: Why the fuck am I reporting this? That’s a great point. [chuckles] That’s a great point.

Christine: I’m just here to like be– you know, it’s sort of like The View.

Em: You’re right. I love that.

Christine: I’m just like a sounding board, you know.

Em: Who on The View would you be?

Christine: I’ve never seen it in my life. I have no clue.

Em: Okay. You’d be–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] You’d be Christine. Got it. Um–

Christine: I wouldn’t be on it ’cause they’d be like, “You’re this– You know nothing of what’s happening.”

Em: Well, police have been called by locals thinking that somebody has gotten into the house after hours, but nobody’s ever found. And one time, a couple’s car broke down in front of the house. They saw a light was on in the house, so they went to go knock on the door for help, and they didn’t hear anyone on the other side, and the light turned itself off in the window.

Christine: They’re like, “Shh.” [laughs]

Em: They were like, “Fuck!” [laughs]

Christine: That, that’s me when the like people door-to-door come to the door, and I’m just like, “If I slide really slowly down the wall, they’ll never know I was here,” and they’re staring right at me, you know.

Em: I know they’re from a different era, but they’re very meant for today if they’re like, [whispers] “Who the fuck is at the door?”

Christine: For real.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like immediate panic when the doorbell rings.

Em: Um, as they finished fixing the car though, in horrific news, they heard heavy breathing next to them, and then the trunk opened itself, slammed itself down. And this is a quote: “Then one by one, all four doors opened and shut–“

Christine: Eugh!

Em: “–and the hood was slammed down.”

Christine: One by one. Oh, that’s upsetting. That’s–

Em: Talk about cinematic. That’s–

Christine: Yeah, that’s some Stephen King shit.

Em: –too much.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Too much for me. When the building was a bookstore, the owners tried to sleep upstairs a few times, and after like two times, they never came back. They– Or–

Christine: Wow.

Em: They were like, “We heard so many doors slamming, so many footsteps on the stairs–“

Christine: Ooh.

Em: –they could never stay the night again. In fact, once it was dark, they would close up shop and just go home. And I’ll end on this quote from the owner of the bookstore. He said, “As soon as the sun starts to go down, everybody is asked to leave, and we take off too.”

Christine: [gasps]

Em: They were like, “I want nothing to do with that.”

Christine: Now it’s their house.

Em: It’s their house now. Yeah, they– By day–

Christine: This is cinematic. Em, this is quite a movie. Like I would watch this. This is cool.

Em: I think so. But I think it’s at, at least very precious that like maybe they all did really find each other and, and–

Christine: I– Y-yeah.

Em: Can you imagine being a ghost for decades and then you’re like, “Oh my god, like now where do we live?” And it’s like, “Oh my god, my– I’m watching my husband across the street build this fucking giant thing. As soon as he dies, we’re in there.”

Christine: Like a porcelain– a gorgeous porcelain with heated water. I mean, damn.

Em: You think as a ghost she was like, “Don’t put that there.” And he couldn’t hear–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –so it’s still a little fucked up.

Christine: She’s like, “[sighs] Write that down. I’m gonna have to move that sconce to the other s– to the east-facing wall.”

Em: “He’ll never understand. He’ll never understand. He’s doing it all wrong.”

Christine: “[groans] Men.”

Em: “I know.”

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: “Like– But he’s all we’ve got left. We got to just root for him.”

Christine: He’s nailing Chr-Christine style curtains to the wall with a staple gun.

Em: [laughs] Um, anyway, that’s the Laurel Hall Mansion.

Christine: Very good. Very creepy.

Em: Thank you.

Christine: I– That is like dark and sad and weird. Thanks.

Em: It is. It– I know that was a bit– I don’t do a lot of bummers, but, um– Well, whatever.

Christine: You know, it reminds me of all those stories we’ve heard that I feel like are– I mean, maybe they are not less common, but I feel like back then if you had such a, such a– I mean, there was a lot of tragedy, but if you had such a tragedy where you lost your– both of your children and your wife and you didn’t have like the resources– an outlet– You’re a man. You don’t have like therapists. You don’t have like a group of buddies who are gonna be open and like help you heal. You know, it’s just like what are you gonna do? You have to have an outlet and like–

Em: And there wasn’t like the internet and like so if–

Christine: Right. You don’t know what to do.

Em: –if you, if you were to go talk to somebody, you’d have to wait like two to three weeks for their letter to get to you.

Christine: Totally.

Em: It’s like–

Christine: So of course you fixate, right?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: You’re like fixating on this project like, “This will fix– This will help because it’ll like make a place for us.” I mean, it, it’s sad, but it’s like kind of very human and beautiful.

Em: Oh, yeah.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I-if something– Even with all the resources I, I currently have, if my entire family died, I can’t promise I wouldn’t lose it. I–

Christine: Right?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: And then you think about back then, it’s like the lack of resources, the different time culturally. Oh, yeah. Ooh.

Em: And it was probably encouraged back then if there were– if this was like the Victorian mourning period, they were like, “Oh, he’s doing it right.”

Christine: Oh, sure.

Em: You know?

Christine: And if he’s putting money into like the town and making the cemetery–

Em: Yeah. They were like, “Be sad. Keep being sad.” [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs] “You’re doing great.”

Em: [whispers] “You’re doing really good.” [normal volume] Yeah.

Christine: Oh, wow. Wow.

Em: Sorry, d-didn’t mean to interrupt you so many times there, but–

Christine: No, what a, what a story. Um, thank you for sharing. I’m gonna go blow my nose ’cause I’m sure everyone’s really sick of hearing me like try to quietly clear my throat. Um, but after that, I’ll get out GhostTube. Maybe we can see who’s around.

Em: Be wonderful.

Christine: Who are we gonna talk to again?

Em: John Bowman.

Christine: Oh, we were gonna talk to him. Okay.

Em: We can talk to whoever you want.

Christine: Okay. B–

Em: Okay.

Christine: BRB.

[glass clinks - start of ad break]

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors]

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break]

Christine’s Story – The Todt Family Murders - Part 1

Em: All right. Thank you everyone for coming to this week’s musical, uh, that is Mr. Bill.

Christine: I gotta say we– Yeah, we went in Yappy Hour talking– hoping to talk to some ghosts. Not a single fucking ghost showed up, but Em played the theme song for a former, uh, tenant of the home they live in, um–

Em: Yeah, someone who lived–

Christine: –resident of the home.

Em: Someone who lived here before me was quite the–

Christine: Had his own theme song. [chuckles]

Em: –quite the singer/songwriter, so.

Christine: And we did get to listen to that, and the ghost had nothing to say. [laughs]

Em: [chuckles] I think they bounced. They’re like, “That’s too much.”

Christine: They’re probably out– over it, yeah.

Em: All right. [sighs] Well, I bummed you out for once. So I’m just really hoping you brought nothing but happiness today, Christine.

Christine: I’m so glad that finally for once I can say– Just kidding. I brought a really horrible story today. Um, I’m gonna blow my nose real quick. Sorry, Jack. Um, every time I blow my nose, I’m so sorry, but cut it out. [chuckles]

[Christine’s video on the left fades to black.]

Em: Sure. Christine also did a really, I’m assuming, very good job on her notes because they apparently are very long. They took a long time to get through. There was like at least 15 pages worth of notes, and so it took a lot of study, and–

Christine: Oh my word, it was a night–

Em: –I’m proud of you.

Christine: It– Thank you.

Em: I don’t even know what, what your topic is yet, but Christine sounded stressed about it, so we’re gonna give her a round of applause. Yay.

[Christine’s video on the left fades back into view.]

Christine: Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you. Um, I appreciate it. It was, it was one of those where I started researching it– I mean, you know this, and you’ve done this same scenario a million times, but I was like, “Oh, this is pretty straightforward.” And then all of a sudden, it’s like I’m watching three-part docuseries, and like I’m on Newspapers.com taking clippings of like articles from– I mean, it is insane. Okay? And I– When I texted you to say, “it’s too many pages,” it’s 15 pages. Um, and then I worked on them all day that day–

Em: Mm. [sighs]

Christine: –and at a certain point I looked down, it was 19 pages, and I went–

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: –“Well, that did the opposite of what I was hoping.”

Em: What’s the average page count for your notes?

Christine: Seven. [laughs]

Em: Okay, got it.

Christine: So like it’s– It– Yeah. So [chuckles] yeah, seven is usual for me. So 19 is not as crazy as if it was like– Yours are like one or something because you make them so tiny.

Em: Mine are one, but they’re one in eight point font. Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: Exactly. ’Cause, ’cause you’re a psychopath. Um–

Em: You’re a normal person. Yeah.

Christine: Sort of. So this is the story of the Todt family murders. And I think part of the reason that there’s so much about it is that it happened in 2019, so it’s relatively recent.

Em: Oh.

Christine: And so there are just a lo– there’s a lot of coverage on it, and there’s a lot of coverage online about it. Um–

Em: I, I imagine the hardest stories for you to cover, which, tell me if I’m wrong, but not just in the day and age of the internet and TikTok and everyone can like give their opinion, but as soon as true crime podcasting became popular–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –I would imagine that there’s just almost too much information.

Christine: Oh, you’re totally right because– And I’m one of those people who’s like, “the more info the better,” so I’m like adding like details like, “this is the movie they watched. This is the– You know, this is the character.” Like I was adding everything, and at a certain point, you just have to be like, it’s too much. It’s too much. Um–

Em: Yeah. So I, I would imag– I would personally out of fear want to stick with the ones that are– that have less information, so that way it’s like a succinct story and le– like you don’t feel bad about not having a lot of information. Yeah.

Christine: That’s what I thought I was doing. But then you’re right, ’cause once you realize like, oh, there’s so much more. It’s like, well, I can’t just cover half of it. Like–

Em: Right.

Christine: I can’t half-ass it, you know. Um, also I’m– I opened my little mini D. Pep ’cause I really need a little something, a little treat, you know.

Em: You know what I found recently, which is not common around here, is a Mr. Pibb. I–

Christine: Fucking love Mr. Pibb.

Em: I think I love Mr. P more than Dr. P.

Christine: I think I do too.

Em: I–

Christine: Although now, it’s called Pibb Xtra.

Em: No. The one I found is a full-blown classic Mr. Pibb.

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: But Pibb Xtra was my favorite as a kid.

Christine: Maybe I flipped ‘em.

Em: Maybe extra had like lightning on it. Ah!

Christine: Oh, I thought Mr. Pibb changed. Maybe not, maybe not. They–

Em: Um, I’ve never seen this logo before, so I do think they rebranded. I think you’re right.

Christine: Oh, I just looked it up. Yeah, for sure. Look at this. Wow.

Em: It looks nothing like I remember. But, um, I– They don’t make a lot of Mr. Pibb out here. I just never see it. And I went– was in a gas station. I went, “What the hell is this?” And I bought–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –six of them.

Christine: But, Em, a– Okay, okay, wow.

Em: Tell me.

Christine: Coca-Cola brought Mr. Pibb back in October 2025, nearly 24 years after discontinuing the original brand.

Em: [gasps]

Christine: ’Cause that– ’Cause for a while it was just Pibb Xtra, and that was it. And then in 20– late 2025 and in 2026, it’s rolling out as Mr. Pibb again throughout the nation.

Em: It sure is, and I am very excited about that.

Christine: Early adopter–

Em: I was wondering. I was like, “Is this just a Southern thing or something? ’Cause I haven’t seen Mr. Pibb since I left.”

Christine: No, it’s definitely not, but I’m glad it’s coming back. I miss that shit.

Em: Mm.

Christine: You eat that with a Snickers and a Twizzler, and you’re on a road trip, and you’re gonna be awake all night, dude. [laughs]

Em: Don’t even talk to me. I’m so excited.

Christine: You are not falling asleep at the wheel. That’s what my stepdad always told me: get a Pibb Xtra or Mr. Pibb, some s– Twizzlers, and a Snickers bar, and you will not be falling asleep.

Em: I, I got– I like a little Twix action. That’s– I would say a Twix and a Pibb.

Christine: Yum.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Okay. [chuckles]

Em: Let’s hear it.

Christine: So here are the dark tales of today. This is the Todt family murders. Um, we’ve got this family. Of course, they’re picture perfect. Of course, they light up a room. Of course, they are well-loved in town. They live in Connecticut. Their names are Tony and Megan. They’re high school sweethearts from small-town Connecticut who built a very normal kind of middle to upper class lifestyle. Um, they met in high school. Tony was voted “most likely to succeed”, um, as his superlative. He kind of fulfilled that. He earned a master’s degree in physical therapy and opened his own practice in Colchester, Connecticut – which by the way, fun fact, is where Blaise worked at Blockbuster in high school in Colchester, Connecticut.

Em: Get out. Fun.

Christine: Yeah. At the local Blockbuster. Still have the t-shirt.

Em: [gasps]

Christine: It’s pretty cool.

Em: Fun.

Christine: Yeah. So Megan, who also held a degree in physical therapy, was described by her friends as a gentle, kind-hearted soul. Um, she was just a very empathetic, loving person who wanted more than anything to be a mother. Um, by the late 2000s, that dream came true. They ended up having three kids. It was Aleksander, also known as Alek, Tyler, and Zoe. They were a very beloved family. You know, he coached youth soccer. Um, he volunteered, uh, at like a special needs school. Um, he– Just like a very in the mix kind of family. Um, Megan homeschooled the kids but was very, very insistent about taking them places, traveling with them, um, cultural things to travel to meet other kids. So they were still very social, even though they were homeschooled. Um, around 2017, the Todts made a big life change that, in hindsight, marked the beginning of, um, kind of their downfall. They moved from Connecticut to the town of Celebration, Florida.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Do you know much about this town?

Em: My mother’s obsessed.

Christine: Really?

Em: She’s obsessed with– Uh, that was–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: That was one of her big like retirement dreams. She’s like, “One day, maybe I’ll just move to Celebration, Florida.” I’m like, “Okay, girl. Whatever you–“

Christine: That is the most like Reagan era nonsense I’ve ever heard.

Em: She, you know, she’s stuck in her ways sometimes.

Christine: Celebration. Okay, so if you’re not familiar, it’s basically an upscale master-planned community originally conceived by the Walt Disney Company. It’s like right near Disney World. Um, it’s like this “storybook” type town. Um, the idea behind it was– It’s, it’s basically a social experiment is what it was described as.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Like it’s the– [chuckles] Your mom would just waltz right into a social experiment on purpose.

Em: Happily. And then she’d go–

Christine: Yeah. [laughs]

Em: –“I don’t really know what that’s all about, but I’m loving this.” [laughs]

Christine: She’s just like “And I do not care.” [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Um, it’s meant to be very storybook. It’s meant to look like old-school, traditional Americana, Disney vibes. Like just pristine, green–

Em: It’s like the o– like the chance to live in Disney World like if, if you could.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s like it–

Christine: Correct.

Em: –looks like you’re living on like, I imagine, Main Street, U.S.A.

Christine: Yes. And even the hospital is like disguised as like an old-timey hotel. Like you know it’s just really something else. Um–

Em: As someone who loves sets, I’m not gonna sit here and pretend like I wouldn’t fucking eat that up.

Christine: Oh, I'm fascinat– I mean, it’s fascinating, and especially because it was created by this sort of like over– over-committee who like kind of secretly– It, it’s a little creepy. Like the whole thing is a little creepy the way it was created, but you know, everything’s very whimsical. It’s meant to encourage, um, community, and they have like these little courtyards where people can gather, and you know apparently, from what I saw, um, you can get from there to inside Disney within six minutes. So like–

Em: Holy shit.

Christine: Yeah, it’s, it’s built for Disney-heads, okay.

Em: It, it really is just an extension of Disney.

Christine: Correct.

Em: It’s just– Okay.

Christine: And it’s no longer owned by Disney.

Em: Mm.

Christine: They sold it, but it was originally owned by Disney. Now it’s just like right next to it, and it sort of still vibes that same way.

Em: Imagine working at that hospital, and like you need, you need full access to like people rolling in in gurneys and there’s just tourists coming in to take pictures.

Christine: Oh my god. And there’s just like Robin Williams like in, um–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –in what’s that movie?

Em: Is it Patch Adams or something?

Christine: [laughs] Patch Adams. With a clown nose, and you’re like, “No, this is a real hospital please.”

Em: “Get out of here.”

Christine: “Like this is not a theme park anymore.” Um, so they moved there, uh, and they bought a home on reser– uh, reserve place in Celebration. Uh, they wanted to kind of have this like sunny, warm Florida dream, much like Linda. But, of course, Tony, he’s still working, so he’s still tied to Connecticut in this way. He continues to run his physical therapy clinic up in Connecticut, then he would commute down to Florida, which is not unheard of, you know, especially if you have the money for that kind of thing. He would fly down on weekends to be with his family. So that often meant he spent weekdays alone in Connecticut and weekends with his family in Florida. So I know I already kind of hinted at this, but in Connecticut, the family was very socially engaged, very active within their community. Um, but in Celebration, neighbors didn’t really know them as well. They were more withdrawn. Um, they kind of kept to themselves. They didn’t dislike the family, um, but they just didn’t know too much about them. They did know that Megan was a trained yoga instructor and physical therapist and was a h– was homeschooling her kids. Um, but privately, which was not really known by neighbors or people on the surface, is that Megan had been dealing with some health challenges.

Em: Mm.

Christine: So in 2017, according to Tony, during one of the family’s frequent trips to Disney World, she was bitten by a tick and contracted Lyme disease.

Em: Fuck.

Christine: Yeah. And this became chronic, and Tony would later claim that Megan’s health never fully recovered, that she suffered persistent pain, fatigue, even miscarriages, which led to bouts of depression. Um, by 2019, some friends had noticed Megan had lost weight and become more subdued, like a less bright version of herself. Tony also started to change. Um, he had once been like very fit and energetic and active, um, but very quickly, he had gained a significant amount of weight. He developed type 2 diabetes–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –um, which he attributed to stress. Uh, and things were struggling. And do you have a guess? ’Cause I, I– I’d forgotten that I wrote the notes in this way, but it’s an, it’s an interesting question. Do you have a guess as to why– Like her health decline seems– appears to be related to–

Em: The Lyme disease.

Christine: –the Lyme disease. Do you have a guess as to what Tony’s health decline has to do with?

Em: [sighs] I would just guess something hormonal. I have no idea.

Christine: Money.

Em: What?

Christine: He was crashing and burning financially. So he is–

Em: Ohh.

Christine: –gaining weight. He’s developing diabetes. He’s stress eating. He’s not taking care of himself. He’s not sleeping.

Em: Got it.

Christine: His cortisol, I imagine, is through the roof. This fucking guy, classic story – finances can fuck you up. He was grappling with a full-on financial crisis behind closed doors. Um, in April 2019, federal agents from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services opened an investigation into Tony’s Connecticut physical therapy practice for healthcare fraud. Auditors discovered that Tony had been billing Medicaid and private insurers for therapy sessions that never happened–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –effectively charging patients for care they never received.

Em: Dang.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So it’s a– just a lot of fraud?

Christine: Lot of fraud.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Lot of fraud. Over time, the fraudulent billing added up to about $130,000 in ill-gotten funds. Um, and by his own later admission, he’d been using this income to like keep his family afloat financially. Um, he had to help pay– He had to pay the mortgage on the Celebration house. They went to Disney World often. Basically, they’re living out of their means, you know, um, outside their means. Tony had also taken out additional loans from financial firms. So that was the– Excuse me. The hund– some $130,000 was, um, insurance fraud. Then the– Like for, for– just as an example, he apparently filed, um, insurance claims for one patient for like 53 visits in like a four-month period, and they hadn’t come in once. So like he is like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –pushing it. Like he’s looking through wherever he can get–

Em: He’s full– in full panic.

Christine: He’s in full panic. He’s, he’s pushing it to the limit. And of course, it caught the eye of the feds. Um, but in addition to the financial, uh– the, the investment fraud, he’s also taking out additional loans from financial firms. So in 2019, he was over $100,000 in debt, being sued by creditors for non-payment. Court records in multiple states showed liens, eviction notices, and lawsuits. So like the stress– It makes my pits sweat just thinking about it.

Em: Mm.

Christine: The pressure was immense. Um, and at first, when they investigated and questioned him about the billing irregularities, he maintained his innocence. Like he really tried to bluff his way out. And it’s like, “Good luck, [chuckles] guy.”

Em: [chuckles] That’s so crazy.

Christine: Like they’ve seen it all before.

Em: Oh my god. Yeah, I’m stressing for him.

Christine: I know. He told agents that Megan knew nothing about the scheme, that she was totally out of it– out of the picture about this. He also said that his employees had nothing to do with it. Um, he, he confessed finally said, “Okay, yeah. I– I’m in a tough, I’m in a tough place. I’ll cooperate. This is my doing. My wife had nothing to do with it. My employees had nothing to do with it. It was all me.” So he took the blame. And definitely, the children of course did not know. They were pretty young at this point.

Em: Sure. At this point, am I allowed to–

Christine: Yeah, yeah. Talk away.

Em: Am I allowed to pity him so far? Because it sounds like I–

Christine: You’re allowed to do whatever you want, baby. I’m not gonna tell you what to think and feel.

Em: [chuckles] Well, I just– I– So far, I can’t imagine, you know– I’m imagining he got into the fraud out of panicking. Like–

Christine: I mean, think about that s– like stress. Like we’ve all been in like that–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Well, maybe not all of us, but we’ve most of us have been in that financial stress of like, “I– How do you squeeze another penny out to survive?”, you know.

Em: Yeah. I could, I could see desperation doing crazy things–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: –and then like, and now your whole family is gonna have to deal with the repercussions from that.

Christine: And– Yeah.

Em: So in that way, I do feel bad for him. I don’t– I’m not defending the fraud, but I can understand the fraud.

Christine: Yeah. I mean, and it’s like a tale as old as time, right? Like you get in over your head. You try to re– you try to borrow some money, then you need to borrow money to pay back that money, then– I mean, it’s just like classic story.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: So just to give you an idea, the kids at this point, Alek was 13, the oldest; Tyler was 11; and then Zoe was 4, just to give you an idea of like the ages of the kids. So they were not privy to this, right? Like they didn’t know. They were just living their lives, going to Disney, probably having a good time. So he confessed. He said, “My kids, my family, my employees had nothing to do with this.” Essentially, he was living this double life, right? On the one hand, he’s a family man, and he’s taking his kids to Disney, and he’s just like man about town. And then secretly, he’s drowning in debt and legal trouble, and the feds are after him.

Em: Yeah, okay.

Christine: By late 2019, Tony’s precarious balancing act was heading toward disaster because his license to practice physical therapy had expired in September 2019 after he failed to renew it, and he’s still at the office. Um, and his clinic is faltering. One office had been evicted because he didn’t pay rent. Uh, patient appointments be– were being cancelled because–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –he was just calling and saying, “Personal reasons, I can’t do your appointment.” I mean, he can’t– he doesn’t have a license to even practice anymore.

Em: And he’s just hiding to– that information.

Christine: He’s just hiding. Totally. And so around Thanksgiving of 2019, um, his business is pretty much collapsing. The feds are like, “We need to talk to you about this and get this figured out.” He says, “Okay, okay. Yes, I will talk to you about this, but I have to go to Florida for Thanksgiving. I’ll be back by December 8,” is what he tells them. So meanwhile, in Florida, the Todts had r– moved into a rental home in the North Village area of Celebration, um, which is a different house that they had been in, but by December, they were also behind on the rent there.

Em: Jesus.

Christine: I know. It’s just like–

Em: This poor guy.

Christine: –this stress. On Dec–

Em: And, and his wife still has no idea?

Christine: As far as we know, as far as we know.

Em: Wow.

Christine: The, um, federal agents said they did not believe Megan had any knowledge of this.

Em: I– And I feel so bad for her too in hindsight being like, “Oh, I was like saying, ‘let’s go on all these trips,’ or ‘let’s do this,’ or ‘we should get this for the– this kid’s birthday present,’ and it’s like he was fully panicking.”

Christine: Well, especially if she’s sick.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –you know.

Em: And she’s sick. Oy. [sighs]

Christine: So on December 26, 2019, the day after Christmas – yikes – the Osceola County Sheriff’s Office posted an eviction summons on the Todts’ door for failure to pay rent. Um, and Tony essentially knew that federal agents were closing in, and there wasn’t really much else he could do. Like time was running out. He said he was going back by December 8. The clock is ticking. It’s end of November. Um, but of course, they tried to maintain some sense of normalcy. Um, for the first time in years, they decided not to travel back to Connecticut for the holidays, which was un– They usually went back to Connecticut for family events, like Christmas, you know, to see family, to be in like the winter weather, the snow. Um, oh, p– apparently, Celebration, Florida, also like puts out fake snow like in the, um, winter months. Like they like put–

Em: Well, you gotta.

Christine: –pipe out fake snow.

Em: There’s no snow coming.

Christine: And they also, um, pipe bird song through hidden speakers throughout–

Em: Oh my god. [chuckles]

Christine: –the neighborhood. [chuckles]

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: It’s so creepy.

Em: I mean, it does feel– It– I like how there’s two–

Christine: It feels Disney.

Em: There’s two trains of thought here because you say, “creepy,” and I think, “that sounds magical.” [laughs]

Christine: Yeah. Right. I, I know. I know. Oh, so you’re like, you’re, you’re like, “I’m into it actually.”

Em: That’s– I, I could understand–

Christine: Alright.

Em: –the– for the aesthetic. I get–

Christine: Good for you.

Em: They’re committing to a bit. I love committing to a bit.

Christine: You know what? I can’t fault you for that. That’s beautiful. All right, so back to this. So they’re trying to maintain like some sense of normalcy. Um, at this point, you have to imagine that Megan knew at least about the rent payments, right? ’Cause they’re be– if they have eviction notices on the door, like she’s got to have some understanding, I would think, that things are not quite as picture perfect as they seem.

Em: Right.

Christine: So they decide to, um, not go to New England this year to see relatives but stay in the sunshine for the 2019 holidays. On December 14, 2019, Alek and Tyler participated in a music recital – they were gifted musicians – at their school in celebration. It was a holiday concert showcasing talented kids in the community. Um, that night, 13-year-old Alek received a special commendation for his piano and violin performances.

Em: Ooh.

Christine: 11-year-old Tyler earned an award for his skills on piano and guitar. Um, there’s some really cute photos of the brothers like smiling and holding their little like awards. And then–

Em: Precious.

Christine: I know. It’s really sweet. And then Zoe, age four, won a free year of dance lessons in a raffle and was like beside herself with delight ’cause she just loved– She was like a little princess. Like she loved to twirl, and um, a year of dance lessons was so exciting. No one realized this would be the last time that the Todt children were ever seen alive in public.

Em: Oh. Big shift from where I thought we were heading. Okay.

Christine: My bad.

Em: Okay, so I’ve got my thoughts immediately, but I’m gonna l– I’m gonna let you carry on on.

Christine: Thanks. In the coming days, some neighbors believed they saw the family preparing for a trip. One neighbor later told police they observed the Todts’ SUV packed with belongings, um, and they did see the SUV drive away from the home on December 15. And it’s unclear where they were going, if anywhere, but Tony had told various people about an upcoming educational, like homeschool trip to St. Augustine.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And so that’s where people and family members thought they were going. For months, Megan had mentioned to relatives that she and Tony wanted to take the boys to St. Augustine as a learning adventure. Um, and so, you know, the plan was to go after Christmas once everyone was feeling better from the colds they had. Um, so as the– Christmas 2019 approached, the Todts’ communication with extended family became like a little bit dicey, like sporadic–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –and a little bit off, right? So about a week before Christmas, Megan’s aunt in Connecticut, Cynthia, or Cindi, Kopko, received a text from Tony (so this would be her niece’s husband, her nephew-in-law)– received a text from Tony that struck her as a bit unusual. Tony told Cindi that the family was leaving for a short vacation and would be “going off the grid” and that they would be turning their phones off for a while.

Em: Uh-oh.

Christine: I know, red flag. He specifically said not to worry if no one could reach them. Given that Cindi was both Megan’s aunt and godmother and one of her closest confidantes, this was a little bit jarring. Um, it wasn’t like unheard of. Like she was like, “Well, I could picture them doing like a tech-free getaway with the kids,” right?

Em: Sure.

Christine: Something like that. Sometime around December 22, Tony sent another update, claiming the family had arrived in northern Florida on route to St. Augustine, but that – oops! – Megan had lost her phone, so she won’t be able to talk to you.

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: Soon after, a message came from Megan’s own phone– That’s weird. Didn’t she lo-lose it?

Em: That’s a great point.

Christine: –to Aunt Cindi. And this time, the text said that the entire family had come down with a terrible flu. Quote, “They’ve had the flu for probably a couple weeks. They were really down and out during Christmas,” is how Cindi later remembered the message. The text explained they were delaying the St. Augustine excursion until everyone recovered. Which is like, “Weren’t you just on the way there, and then you lost your phone? And now you’re home and saying you’re delaying the trip?” It’s just weird. It’s all weird.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: It said, “We’re just gonna wait till we’re over this, and then we’re gonna head out.” Initially, these explan– explanations didn’t totally raise red flags. I mean, we know, I know personally, how rough flu season can be, and like it can literally incapacitate a whole family, even if not everyone’s sick.

Em: Yeah, everyone can be put out.

Christine: Like it can re– Totally. It made sense that the trip might be postponed if anybody was sick. But in hindsight, Aunt Cindi just felt like something was off, especially because she never heard Megan’s voice on the phone.

Em: I love Aunt Cindi.

Christine: And they always called– Cindi is like, “This ain’t right, dude. This ain’t right.”

Em: Aunt Cindi– She’s like, “I got a feeling in my gut, and my gut’s not wrong.”

Christine: “And my gut’s never wrong.” She was a little concerned that Megan never called because they always talked on at least Christmas Day, um, but there was just silence on the other end. And when she asked if they could talk, Megan would say, “Oh, I’m too sick to talk on the phone.” I mean, hello. Have we never been in MySpace era? We know.

Em: I want you to say it again because I–

Christine: “My webcam’s broken.” Bullshit.

Em: I need a clear hit of that so I can use it as a text tone later. I need you to go, “I mean, hello.” [laughs]

Christine: I mean, hello. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I mean, hello. Have we not been around the MySpace era? Like, you know, if somebody is catfishing you, that’s what they say. They say, “My webcam’s broken.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “Oh, I’m too sick to talk on the phone.” That’s what I did. I broke up with a boyfriend that way. Am I proud of it? No. But I– Did I know what I was doing? Absolutely.

Em: We’re not– We’re, We’re mean, not idiots, you know. [chuckles]

Christine: Yeah, e– Right. I’m socially averse to any sort of conflict, not idiot– not an idiot.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Maybe a little bit, but anyway.

Em: There’s a lot of things I am. Stupid ain’t one of ‘em.

Christine: Stupid ain’t one of ‘em, okay? I know when someone’s catfishing someone. So Cindi’s concerned–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –as she should be, that Megan does not want to talk, Megan’s too sick to talk, Megan– the kids are too sick to talk. No one can talk to her. It’s Christmas Day. They’re not up in Connecticut as usual. Things are just like a little bit concerning. At one point, a family member texted Tony – this is a huge red flag – asking for photos of the kids opening their presents on Christmas morning. I mean, that’s like a normal thing, right? Like I always–

Em: Sure.

Christine: With my family members, I’m like, “Oh, what did so and so get?”, and I want to send pictures of like Leona opening things. It’s just part of like family culture.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: So people ask for photos of the kids opening the presents, and Tony replies, “Oh, the kids are still sleeping.”

Em: On Christmas morning?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Huh?

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: I mean– I’m so– I’m just trying to– I’m trying to come up with an excuse here. And I can see if I were a parent and it’s Christmas, I still don’t really want to wake up early. So maybe we’re all just late, late bloomers.

Christine: Hey, I never want to wake up early either, and Leona sleeps till 9. Guess who woke up at 5:30 a.m. on Christmas morning and said–

Em: A man.

Christine: –[low, growly voice] “Santa came!” No, Leona.

Em: Oh. [laughs] I thought she was gonna–

Christine: Leona.

Em: I was expecting a, a Gio or a Blaise in there. Oh man–

Christine: No, Blaise was incapacitated with the world’s worst superflu–

Em: Right. Aw, man.

Christine: –and I was Santa. It was a nightmare. So she wakes up at 5:30, and I’m like, “I just went to bed. I really can’t do this.”

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “I thought you were gonna sleep till at least 8 for me.” Nope. So kids like lose all sense of like sleeping in on Christmas. Okay? As far as I’m concerned, a 4-year-old, an 8-year-old, 11-year-old, I don’t think they’re sleeping in late. But maybe– Listen, maybe.

Em: That’s a great point.

Christine: But if that’s the case, I want to add to that he never sent photos. It’s not like later that day–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –or the next day, he sent photos. Like there’s just nothing.

Em: That’s a great point. I had not looked at it through the eyes of a– of someone who is responsible for a child 24/7. Um, you’re totally right that they– you tell them Santa’s gonna be here and–

Christine: Bullshit.

Em: –you get a day of opening presents, yeah, you wake up early.

Christine: “Hey, there’s like dozens of presents downstairs for you–“

Em: I–

Christine: “–and cinnamon rolls and no school?” Come on.

Em: That sounds nice. I could use that right now. That sounds great.

Christine: That sounds really good.

Em: That sounds really nice. [laughs]

Christine: Sounds really good.

Em: No, you’re totally right. Okay, so the assumption now where, where we are–

Christine: Where we are.

Em: –with hindsight is that they are probably already gone by Christmas.

Christine: Correct.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Correct, correct. Tragically, yes.

[glass clinks - start of ad break]

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors]

[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break]

Christine: So [sighs] um, the kids are sleeping in, but then he never sent photos anyway. And like this is not in character. Usually Megan is sending everyone photos. Usually Megan is like uploading pictures, taking videos. Like this is her bread and butter. This is what they live for. But no, nothing. Quiet. The extended family began to suspect, of course, that something about Tony’s story was not adding up. In Connecticut, Tony’s sister, Chrissy, was especially uneasy because she’d always been really close with her brother and his kids, and she had been texting Tony through late December. And at first, he said, you know, “We have the flu. We’ll be fine.” But by the last week of the year, his replies kind of stopped–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –and she started to get worried. So December 29, 2019, Chrissy was too worried. She placed a call to the Osceola County Sheriff’s Office, um, asking them to conduct a welfare check. She said, “I’m wondering if someone can do a wellness check on my brother and his family. They’ve been really sick for the past week and a half, and I can’t seem to get a hold of them.” She mentioned she’d been texting with Tony a few days prior, but he stopped replying and didn’t call when he said he would.

Em: Mm.

Christine: The only person anyone had managed to contact in the family was Tony himself. Neither Megan nor the children had been heard from directly in some time. So she’s worried, and she tells the 911 operator. They take this seriously. They send deputies to 202 Reserve Place, and two deputies knock on the door, but they get no answer. The house is quiet. The window shades are down. There’s nothing obviously wrong. They check around the perimeter. They speak to a few neighbors who say they haven’t seen the Todt family in a while, maybe since before Christmas. Um, there’s no sign of forced entry. They look through the door. There’s still a Christmas tree standing, uh, inside–

Em: [groans] Oh god.

Christine: –but there’s nobody there. And so they’re just thinking, “Oh, well, they’re probably on a trip or–“ You know, Celebration, like you were saying about Linda, like it’s sort of a place– It’s oftentimes like a place you go in the winter, right? You’re like a, a snowbird.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like you go there because– So, so even though it’s Christmas time, maybe they went somewhere for the holidays, and they’ll be back. Like maybe this is a secondary home.

Em: Well, you even said like, “Oh, they decided to stay home for the holidays, but they would usually go somewhere else.”

Christine: Exactly.

Em: So it’s easy to assume that they went somewhere else–

Christine: Especially–

Em: –or like friends invited them over or something.

Christine: Exactly. And the neighbors said like, “Oh, we don’t know them that well, and you know, they’re in and out.” So it’s like–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –it’s not that jarring or shocking. Um, so they, they left. They, they wrote a report. Nobody answered. Nothing looked amiss. It didn’t even look like anyone was home. But the family was not reassured by this. I think– I would imagine it made them more uneasy, right?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: ’Cause like nobody answered the phone–

Em: It would make me–

Christine: –or, the door.

Em: Also you– I– This is– Tell me if I’m crazy here, but I would think on Christmas you ha– Even if you’re not looking at your phone, you have your phone nearby because you always like call family to say, “Merry Christmas,” and things like that, so–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –you would at least–

Christine: In 2019. Like we’re all in touch at that time, you know?

Em: Yeah. You’re at least sending out a mass text message saying, “Merry Christmas,” or–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –one of those chains where it’s like dirty, nasty Santa Claus or whatever. [laughs] Do you know about those?

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah. “Squirt, uh, squirt in my stocking.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: And it’s like, “What the fuck, Renée? Why the fuck would you send this to me? We’re 34 years old, and I have a child. Stop sending me this shit.”

Em: [laughs] “You’ve been a naughty elf,” or whatever it is.

Christine: Oh, yeah. Tongue emoji. Tongue emoji. Squirt emoji. I mean, Jesus Christ, these fucking things. I’ve been getting these since like ninth grade, and they still come every year.

Em: I’m telling you, Santa wants your cookies. You got to do–

Christine: Who’s the– Shut the fuck up.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Who’s the first per– Who’s the person– “Let’s get baked,” you know.

Em: [laughs] Yeah.

Christine: Who’s the person in your life that sends those to you?

Em: Oh man, there’s a lot. Uh, one of them–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: One of them is, uh, my friend, Kai–

Christine: That feels right.

Em: –one of them is my cousin; one of them is someone back home.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Um, but then I’m usually– I-it’s usually in– My friend, Cole– Someone in his family sends it to me.

Christine: Oh, Cole would do that.

Em: It’s not always Cole.

Christine: That feels right.

Em: Um, it’s a lot of people. I– Nice to know that it’s, it’s just immediately went to Renée for you.

Christine: Literally Renée. One time, Eva’s partner, Ray, sent one, and I went like, “Oh, that’s different from the one I got from Renée,” and Ray goes, “Oh, I made this one.” And I went, “You are–“

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “–fucking sick.” [laughs] I was like, “You don’t understand now. This is next level. You made that one? Oh, no, no, no.”

Em: I wonder–

Christine: “These are usually copypastas,” you know.

Em: I, uh– [laughs] I’m not even gonna–

Christine: And I was like, “Never again. Never again. I will block you forever.”

Em: I’m gonna do my best to just stop speaking because otherwise I’m just gonna talk about craz–

Christine: We're just gonna find– Yeah. [laughs]

Em: B– ’Cause every holiday at least one gets sent to me, and they’re always worse than the last one.

Christine: And then like it’s always when you least expect them like, “Oh, sham-rockin’ the bed,” and I’m like, “Why is there a fucking–“

Em: The, the leprechaun ones are especially odd.

Christine: Leprechaun ones are like– make me like–

Em: The pot of gold, you know.

Christine: –so uncomfy, dude.

Em: Anyway, I li–

Christine: “Taste the rainbow.” My god, it gets like out of control this shit.

Em: Just to–

Christine: If you guys don’t know what we’re talking about, consider yourself so lucky that you don’t have like–

Em: [chuckles] Disgusting friends.

Christine: –psycho friends. Yeah. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: ’Cause like it’s– for me, it really is just mostly Renée, but she will send like– She’ll, I’m assuming, get them from probably 16 of her friends ’cause that’s just the kind of circle she rolls in, circles like you do–

Em: Love that.

Christine: –and then forward them to people who they know are gonna feel uncomfy. And they’re always these weird long diatribes with a lot of emojis, and they’re just like deeply uncomfortable and graphic.

Em: It’s like they try to be as X-rated as possible.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s like the old email chains–

Christine: Yes.

Em: –where it’s like, “If you don’t send this to six people, then bad luck forever”–

Christine: “Forward this–“

Em: –and it’s– So then you just go– Anyway.

Christine: “And then Santa’s elves won’t blow you.” And it’s like, “What?” [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I don’t want that.

Em: All– To reel it back in, all this to say, in 2019, one of those was probably getting sent to her phone or something like that. Like you have–

Christine: Somebody–

Em: –you have your phone available in 2019 Christmas morning to at least say hi to somebody–

Christine: And– Okay–

Em: –or to see if elves will blow you, you know? It’s–

Christine: [chuckles] You know? You gotta know. And honestly, you think about it too like you’re in group chats, right. Like they’re so sociable with their town, with their neighbors, with their family– extended family–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –they’re in groupchats–

Em: Someone has to know where they are or like– or be able to reach them to say, “Merry Christmas.”

Christine: You'd think so. And like if they’re in a bunch of group chats and not responding to a single one, like that’s just shady.

Em: Mm.

Christine: So [sighs] Chrissy calls for this welfare check. You know, they go there. They don’t notice anything, but the family doesn’t feel particularly reassured. Over the next several days, multiple parties were trying to locate the family. The property manager of the home in Celebration grew concerned, especially after finding a Facebook group called “Finding the Todt Family.” Like someone was looking for them–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –and she, the landlord, found this Facebook group and was like, “Oh, shit.” Because she was trying to get the eviction notice to them and say like, “You owe us rent,” and now she’s seeing like, “Oh, I don’t even know–” And she knew, of course, that they had kids, so she’s starting to get really worried.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Um, the property manager contacted authorities separately, asking them to check the house, mentioning nothing had been heard from, uh– from the family. And so, multiple people are reaching out to say like their concern. Meanwhile, up in Connecticut, federal agents are actively hunting for Tony – not because of the missing person’s reports, but because his fraud case – ding, ding, ding. It’s well past December 8. Remember when he promised he would be back? And now it’s after Christmas. And they’re like–

Em: That’s bad.

Christine: –“Buddy, where are you? You promi– you pinky-promised us.”

Em: And speaking of like his cortisol level’s through the roof–

Christine: Uh-huh.

Em: –just because he was like having financial problems, imagine now trying to escape this. Like that–

Christine: The feds, the FBI.

Em: Like how has he not had a heart attack from the stress yet?

Christine: Well, that’s why his health just like plummeted, you know. Like he–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: People noticed he was just like crashing and burning. Agents from the FBI’s field office in New Haven and, um, from HHS were aware that Tony had this home in Florida and suspected he might be hiding out there. So an FBI agent placed multiple cal-calls to the Osceola Sheriff’s Office in early January, alerting them that this guy that– Now they’re sort of starting to become familiar with this family ’cause people keep calling for wellness checks, that kind of thing. Now the FBI calls and says, “Hey, just so you know, they have a federal arrest warrant out for Anthony Todt, and he could be down there in that Celebration house. ‘Cause he’s not up here.”

Em: Mm.

Christine: So a team of federal agents quietly went to the Todt residence on January 9, 2020. They hoped to find Tony, arrest him on the healthcare fraud, and then kinda put to rest all these other concerns people were having. But there was no answer at the door, and it’s been reported that agents did not see any movement. So again, they just kind of had to let it go. And now weeks have passed. Two weeks have passed since anyone had heard Megan’s voice or seen the children.

Em: At that point, you just– Her sister has got to be like in PI mode and just–

Christine: Oh my word. So it’s his sister and her aunt just for–

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: –for, for clarity’s sake. But yes, it–

Em: Thank you.

Christine: Only because it becomes more relevant who’s related to whom later. But you’re right, like the, the, the dread must be astounding.

Em: People are absolutely talking around town now, being like–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –“Have you seen them?”

Christine: Really worried, really worried. Especially because up there in Connecticut, like the employees are not being paid. There’s just like a fucking–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: The appointments are canceled. He’s gone. The kids are gone. I mean–

Em: The school, the school is like gonna probably start wondering soon.

Christine: The school doesn’t know where they are. Mm-hmm. So on January 13, 2020, things escalate again. That morning, Chrissy calls the police. Uh, she’s in Connecticut. She calls Florida police. She’s now sounding a lot more urgent. You can listen to these calls online.

Em: Mm.

Christine: She tells the dispatcher that her worries have increased. And in the second call, she reveals a chilling new detail. She says, and I quote, “Just in conversations with my sister-in-law,” Megan–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “–was making a comment basically that the world is ending on December 28, and nobody has talked to them,” she said.

Em: Mm!

Christine: So she tells them nobody had physically talked to Megan since December 26, and that was just, I believe, a text message. Um–

Em: So we don’t even know if that was her.

Christine: Right. And the comment about the world ending on the 28th was a little alarming, and now that they’re kind of going weeks without hearing from them, she’s starting to wonder if that has anything to do with it, like if there was some delusion happening.

Em: Sure. Sure.

Christine: Additi–

Em: Does she have mental illness in her hi-history?

Christine: Not that we know of. No, no.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Nothing, nothing, um, in her history. Additionally, Chrissy pointed out that Tony had also stopped texting as of Monday, January 6, um, basically, radio silence.

Em: Mm.

Christine: So the Osceola County Sheriff’s Office and federal agents decided to coordinate this time to serve an arrest warran– warrant on Tony that very day and do another welfare check and enter the premises if they have to. So January 13, a team of plainclothes agents from the Officer of Inspector General staked out the Todt residence on Reserve Place, accompanied by sheriff’s deputies. They believed Tony was probably inside. After a short period of surveillance, the agents saw movement. Tony Todt himself emerged onto the porch, looking disheveled and dazed, blinking in the daylight. It looked like he was struggling to walk. He had some sort of a limp.

Em: Hm.

Christine: The agents originally were going to just go right up when he was outside, but he clocked ‘em. They made eye contact.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: So he noticed their presence, darted back inside, and shut the door.

Em: [chuckles] Do you think they watched him just slowly backtrack in like– [chuckles]

Christine: 100% they did. They watched him–

Em: [chuckles] “Um, he looks pretty guilty.”

Christine: –just scooch back on, click the door locked.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: So of course, now they don’t want a stand-off, so they decide to enter. They knock. They announce themselves. When Tony doesn’t reopen the door, they get a spare key. They unlock the door, and they step in, immediately being hit by the pungent odor of decomposition.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: It was a smell everybody recognized, uh, on the team, unfortunately. The foyer opened onto a staircase, and at the top of the staircase– By the way, the, the house had all the curtains drawn. It was dark. It was dim. It was just creepy. And then there’s Tony, standing at the top of the stairs in a t-shirt and his underwear. And he’s leaning against the wall for support, mumbling incoherently. Agents start to ascend the stairs, and he slurred, “Don’t touch me. I’ll fall.”

Em: Huh?

Christine: [chuckles] He’s just being, um–

Em: Dramatic?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Agent Melissa O’Neal calls out, “Tony, where’s Megan? Where are the kids?” And Tony says, “Megan is upstairs sleeping.”

Em: Forever, probably. ’Cause the sm–

Christine: Uh, yeah.

Em: –like the smell of decomp. How do you– He– Either he knows through– I mean, obviously he knows he’s lying. But either he thinks he’s really getting away with it, which tells you he hasn’t left in a long time because he doesn’t recognize the smell that he just p– announced to everybody.

Christine: Right. Oh, I hadn’t thought of that.

Em: You know what I mean?

Christine: That he, he probably just doesn’t even realize that they can smell it so much.

Em: Yeah, h– maybe he thinks he got away with it there, but like–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –there’s no way.

Christine: Because I was thinking, "How stupid is he?” But you’re right. Like if he was maybe used to it, and he thought like, “Oh, I’ll just get them out of the house, and then I can like run or something.”

Em: Which means he’s just been sitting in that house for days if he doesn’t even smell it.

Christine: Weeks.

Em: [gasps] You’re right.

Christine: Unfortunately, I am right.

Em: Mm.

Christine: He calls out her name. He goes, “Meg? Megan!” This fucking guy.

Em: What do you– [sighs] Like at some point, you have to feel stupid doing this. Like you–

Christine: I sure hope so.

Em: Come on.

Christine: At the very least. Um, as if like beckoning her, right? And then they say, “Where are the children?”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And he mumbles that he’s not sure. Maybe they had a sleepover last night, but he can’t remember.

Em: Oh. He had a sleepover with his fucking wife and kids? What are you talking about?

Christine: No, no, no. He’s saying, “Maybe the ki–“ They said, “Where are the kids?” And he said–

Em: Oh, oh.

Christine: –“I think maybe they went to a sleepover last night. I’m not sure.” Really?

Em: Okay. You’re not–

Christine: Really?

Em: Okay.

Christine: Tony’s affect was very detached and strange. He was sort of acting like he’s in a trance. So they escort him down the stairs all wobbly. Um, they take him outside onto the porch while the others, you know, of course, rush in to look for Megan and the kids. Agents O’Neal and Jim Nguyen led the way upstairs, and when they got up there, they noticed the primary bedroom door was wide open. They glanced in, and they saw a pile of blankets on the king-size bed, some bundled objects on a mattress on the floor, but when they looked closer, they could see a pair of human feet protruding from under one blanket–

Em: Oof.

Christine: –and beside it what looked like the shape of a body midsection under another cover. And they realized pretty quickly they were looking at multiple bodies. The first identified–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –was 42-year-old Megan Todt, lying on the bed on her back, heavily decomposed.

Em: Oh. [sighs]

Christine: Um, she was discolored. Uh, the heat down there– The AC had been off. Um, she–

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: Her skin, Agent O’Neal described, had turned “black as leather.” I mean, they’re basically like– Yeah, I mean, they’re decomposing fully. Bodies in the bed. Um–

Em: For weeks, for weeks in the heat.

Christine: For weeks.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: Clutched in one of Megan’s hands was a rosary with a crucifix as if she had either died praying or someone had placed it there.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Take a, take a fucking guess.

Em: For like forgiveness or something.

Christine: Yuck-o. Next to Megan on the bed, under layers of blankets, were the remains of her two children. [sighs] This is really hard to listen to people if you can’t have already guess– if you haven’t already guessed, so just a heads-up. Alec, 13, and Tyler, 11, were found side by side on a mattress placed on the floor next to the bed. It appeared as someone– as though someone had moved the boys’ bodies from their own bedrooms into their parents’ room, laid them there, and then covered them with blankets and put a crucifix or rosary in their hands. Initially–

Em: It’s like a symbolic funeral in some way by–

Christine: Yes, correct.

Em: –putting them all together. Also probably to like keep the smell contained for a second, at one point, and then by the time the–

Christine: No.

Em: No? Oh.

Christine: Because he hung out in this room.

Em: What?!

Christine: They found snack– They found snack wrappers. They found– Like he had been just like hanging out in there. Th–

Em: This is like the most fucked up version of the story I just told of the man building– like trying– like wanting a mausoleum so he could just–

Christine: Oh, you’re right. You’re right.

Em: Like just so he could be with his–

Christine: I didn’t even put that together.

Em: Except he did it right. He did it the right way. He didn’t kill them and then– [chuckles]

Christine: But like– Right. How heinous to be like– You have such a beautiful thing, and now you– [sighs] Oh god.

Em: How do you even– I– This is not what’s important, but I also can’t get past the like– that–

Christine: You are gonna get so– Please ask. Because I have– The amount– When I tell you sincerely I s-stayed up ’til 3 a.m. for f– I think, four total days doing these notes. Like it is–

Em: I’m so proud of you.

Christine: –slowly killing me, and that’s probably why I’m not healed from my illness yet.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Um, but I got really invested in the details. So if you have a question, please feel free.

Em: Well, I mean, my– The first thing that is like just coming to mind is just like bi-biologically. Like th– Like the–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –the bacteria in the air, that you’re just sitting there and eating snacks, and like, like you’re just eating particles, I imagine. Like it’s just–

Christine: There's even a receipt where we can see what snacks he bought.

Em: Dare I ask?

Christine: Peanut M&M’s.

Em: I don’t know what I expected. I don’t know wh– I don’t know. I don’t know what I thought– Like I have chips. I don’t fucking know. Like what do you eat–

Christine: I know. Just like im–

Em: –next to your dead fucking family? You should–

Christine: Imagine like being like–

Em: You shouldn’t be able to eat anything.

Christine: Imagine being like, “What am I hungry for?” And it’s like, “Really?”

Em: And also is he–

Christine: I– By the way, he had a receipt, meaning he went out and bought them.

Em: Thank you. That’s– I was about to say–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –did he like Uber Eats this shit?

Christine: I figured maybe that was the– Oh, Em, I have so many fucking– This is where–

Em: So I’m begging you to te–

Christine: This is why it took so long.

Em: –whatever information you have, you’re not–

Christine: Thank you.

Em: Whatever you have ’cause I– I don’t need to ask what snack. Someone’s wondering.

Christine: Like when– That’s right. ’Cause when people say like, “Oh, he went out of the house.” I’m like, “Where?” Guess what? I’ll spoil one for you now. He went to Starbucks. What the fuck are you doing at Starbucks?

Em: And that’s– And one of those thoughts where I’m always like, “Oh, I wonder how many murderers I’ve walked past in my life.” It’s like, imagine being– working at Starbucks and you’re like, “How many murderers have I served who like just have a body in their house right now?”

Christine: Yeah, you’re, “Oh, a fat-free cappuccino for this fucking guy, and he just murdered his whole f– He’s going home. Why does he smell so bad? ’Cause he’s been like living in a bedroom with his family.” I mean, it’s like, you don’t–

Em: I literally–

Christine: –think this way.

Em: There are so many times where I dri– It’s only because I’ve watched so much Law and Order, but I’ll be driving on the road. I’m like, ”How many houses am I driving past right now that have someone like in the basement?”

Christine: [gasps] Oh!

Em: Like–

Christine: Yeah, held hostage.

Em: And it horrifies me.

Christine: But then we see shit like that come out, and it’s like so unsettling.

Em: Like th-the chances–

Christine: It could tr– It could be true.

Em: –are at least one, like–

Christine: If it’s happening in Celebration, Florida, like the most like happy place on earth or whatever the fuck, you know?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like it’s just really dark.

Em: I– Yeah, I wonder how many people I’ve walked past that are like– who need help and I didn’t know. Like it’s hor– It’s– I don’t know why I do that to myself.

Christine: It’s kind of haunting.

Em: But, but imagine being that Starbucks person later who’s like, “I fucking knew it. That guy smelled like a dead body. Like he’s s–“

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Like– And of course–

Christine: “Something was wrong with this guy.” Or, even more unsettling perhaps, “I didn’t know notice, notice anything was wrong. He was super friendly and fine.”

Em: You are– In case you’re like trying to withhold information to like speed up the story, people want the details. So like–

Christine: Okay, good. ’Cause it’s gonna– [laughs]

Em: But I–

Christine: This is gonna be at the very least a two-parter. I’m sorry in advance–

Em: That’s fine.

Christine: –but it has to be.

Em: But I’m, I’m, I’m also glad that you even said like, “Oh, he went out to CVS,” ’cause my first thought was like, “Were people coming to the house and didn’t know or did– or smelled it and didn’t report it or–?” So that, that’s good to know that h-he was leaving. But also how can you– If I left my house and there were dead bodies in there and I– whether or not I was responsible for the deaths of them, I would be fucking out of my mind paranoid that someone was about to knock on the door and walk right in while I’m gone.

Christine: This is that same thing that we always hit on, which is that people like this, they’re so– they think that they’re just gonna get away with it.

Em: Did he really think he was gonna get away with it?

Christine: Yes.

Em: Because it sounds like he was full-blown panicking, knowing eventually he wouldn’t be getting away with it. And how do you– how dare– how do you think you’re gonna get away with it when like people are– Do you really think people aren’t gonna ask where they fucking went? Like what was your plan?

Christine: Literally.

Em: I don’t get it.

Christine: I don’t understand.

Em: I don’t get– If you, if you lived in the middle of bumfuck nowhere, nowhere–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –and nobody– and they had no friends, you would– successfully isolated all of them, you told everyone that they died years ago or something, maybe you’ll get away with it.

Christine: Maybe.

Em: For a few years. Maybe forever. There’s no way when you live–

Christine: No.

Em: –in a bustling community where you are active–

Christine: Yep.

Em: –with children who go to school and a wife who is involved in your family and it’s Christmas fucking morning–

Christine: And you’re ordering caramel macchiatos on a Tuesday.

Em: I don’t understand– Like it’s not just narcissism at that point.

Christine: It’s like delusion.

Em: It’s a full-blown– You– Something is not wired right.

Christine: It's got to be delusion, right?

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like it’s got to be. ’Cause you’re right. Like even narcissists [chuckles] don’t want to get– like can s– they’re not stupid, right? Like you can see like, “Oh, shit.” Yeah, exactly. No, that’s a really good point. Like–

Em: When you think like at s– at– You did– It didn’t not cross your mind for a second that someone was gonna wonder? Ever? Ever?

Christine: Don't worry, don’t worry. Here's what I– where I tell you that he’s got it all figured out.

Em: Oh my fucking god. Okay.

Christine: I know.

Em: I know you’re wrong. Let’s hear it.

Christine: So here it sounds like, oh, how could you ever explain this away? But don’t worry, he’s got an explanation.

Em: Okay, let’s hear it.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: Let’s hear.

Christine: So he’s like, “Maybe the kids are at a sleepover.” Uh-huh, sure.

Em: And he– When he said that, he went, “I planned that one. That’s a good one.”

Christine: Yeah, “I’ve thought about that one for weeks.” Fucking idiot.

Em: “I nailed that. Now they’re never gonna come back.”

Christine: Yeah, nailed it. So just so sick. Just so sick. Um, so the bodies are all in one room. Sorry. The reason that that got into– turned into a tangent was ’cause you said, “Oh, maybe it was to put them all in one room to contain the smell,” and I said, “No–“

Em: Right.

Christine: “–’cause unfortunately, he was also like living in that room with them,” which is so–

Em: Was he sleeping in there?

Christine: I don’t know. I think probably. But the in–

Em: Like next to his decomposing wife?

Christine: I don’t think in the bed. I think it was insinuated that he spent time in there like regularly, but maybe not that he slept in there.

Em: I– I’m back to the bacteria thing. I couldn’t open my mouth in there. Like I feel like I’d brea– I’m breathing it in. I know that’s so messed up, but–

Christine: Like I don’t even know if I would like what I would think.

Em: I can’t, I can’t imagine it, but I know I would like– The smell alone– Not even the bacteria, but just the smell would take your breath away. You couldn’t be in that room for long unless you really had totally–

Christine: But I wonder–

Em: –lost all sense of smell to it.

Christine: Well, that’s what I wonder. I wonder if it’s gradual, if you do just kind of get accustomed to– I don’t know. I don’t know the answer to that, but–

Em: I mean, also then you could argue like if he had any remorse at all. Like if–

Christine: Right.

Em: I don’t even want to think about it it being my family, but it wouldn’t matter to me what they smelled like, I’d want to be near my fucking family. And maybe–

Christine: Right.

Em: Did he have some sort of like– I know you’re gonna talk about this and people just want the story to get moving, but–

Christine: No, no, no. Tell me.

Em: Is– Was there– Did he have a plan to eventually move them and was he just keeping them there while he grieved? Because like–

Christine: [chuckles] We, we don’t even f– It’s like he didn’t think that far ahead.

Em: ’Cause part of me is like, “I couldn’t, I couldn’t move– Someone would have to physically move my parent’s body out of the r– I couldn’t do it.

Christine: He was not– Let’s just say he was not planning on moving them, as far as I can tell.

Em: Okay. Sorry, keep going.

Christine: He may, he may have planned to eventually try and flee, but also he spent weeks there, so it’s like, you had plenty of time to flee. I don’t know.

Em: Was he hoping they would like– I know this is so fucked up. I’m so sorry to everybody listening, but like, like liquify? Like w-was he hoping they would just decomp so badly eventually they’d go away and then he wouldn’t have to worry about it?

Christine: I mean, there would be skeletons though.

Em: I have n– I don’t know anymore, Chr–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I feel like I’m, I’m trying to make sense out of something that does not make fucking sense. I–

Christine: And he makes it very clear in every sort of writing that he ever does, uh, which is far too much in my opinion, that he’s a doctor. He wants it– to remind everyone.

Em: Huh?

Christine: So–

Em: No.

Christine: –remember how he’s a doctor?

Em: I forgot after everything else you told me. No.

Christine: I know, but like this guy’s a fucking doctor, and he makes sure to remind you. And his wife is too, by the way, but okay, I guess we’re just gonna talk about him. Um–

Em: Oh my god. Yeah, she definitely didn’t– I’m, I’m gonna agree with the consensus that she did not know anything was going on.

Christine: She wasn’t in on it. No, no, no. So at first– [sighs] And this is, again, really heavy and hard to hear. Um, at first, they couldn’t find Zoe, the four-year-old.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So they searched the house. They looked everywhere. They looked in the fridge, in the freezer. Like they didn’t know where to look. They looked everywhere. They were hoping, of course, like maybe she’s out somewhere. Maybe she is okay. Um, but they checked again, and, uh, they found this time in the primary bedroom that there was another little blanket at the foot of the bed near Megan’s feet.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: I know. And that’s where Zoe was. Um, she had been laid beneath her mother’s legs at the foot of the bed. And due to decomp, um, it was– it had just been hard to find her at first ’cause she was so small.

Em: My god. How– She was– I just want to make sure I’m getting that right. She was so badly decomposed they couldn’t find her originally?

Christine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. She’s four.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: Something similar happened to the family dog, Breezy, who was also found in that room. Um–

Em: [softly] Oh.

Christine: –the fluffy white dog, lying on her side in her dog bed in a corner of the primary bedroom, mostly decomposed. A– Just a horror show, right, to walk in on. Um, seasoned law enforcement officers were overcome by the horror of this, um, just completely in shock. Uh, the medical examiner later noted the bodies were partially mummified–

Em: [sighs]

Christine: –um, consistent with having– being dead since late December. Investigators noted other eerie details in the bedroom. For example, all the victims had been carefully wrapped in blankets like they were asleep. The children’s bodies were like holding, like I said, a rosary or crucifix.

Em: Which means he pr– Did he just go out and buy a bunch of crucifixes? Or did they happen to already own them?

Christine: I think they had them.

Em: Okay.

Christine: I think it was just they were Catholic.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Um, nearby lay a small shrine of family photos and like a printed out poem about like why God made little boys and like–

Em: Ew.

Christine: –a trophy– like their– like all their favorite things and toys and dolls. Um, now, the only living being found in the house was Tony himself, who was, of course, now in handcuffs outside being tended to by deputies. And when they brought him out, he started dry-heaving and sweating. Uh, he insisted he was not well. So they called an ambulance, and paramedics soon learned why he was groggy. He admitted he had ingested a large amount of Benadryl, an entire bottle’s worth, in an attempt to kill himself. So investigators found empty packaging of children’s liquid Benadryl in the home, like family size bottles, um, as well as crushed Benadryl tablets, an empty Tylenol PM bottle in the kitchen trash. There was also a typed suicide note–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –um, that they found that was, apparently, written by the whole family. Like it said like–

Em: What?

Christine: –“we” and like “we’ve decided that this– We’ll be in a better place.”

Em: Oh, fuck you.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Really?

Christine: Yeah.

Em: So he obviously wrote it on their behalf and then planned on–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –doing it to himself and then couldn’t get– go through with it.

Christine: Correct.

Em: Beautiful.

Christine: It said everyone was in a better place, no longer suffering, that they asked the children and the children agreed–

Em: Shut the fuck up.

Christine: –that this was a fa–

Em: What do you mean?

Christine: Does that not make you want to fucking scream? Like the fa– Yeah. You ask a four-year-old, “Hey, if Mommy d– if Daddy dies, would you want to be– would you wanna be here alone?” Of course, they’re gonna be like, “No.” Al–

Em: Also like, you know he– that he didn’t fucking ask any of them. You–

Christine: Well, fair enough.

Em: You know–

Christine: Yeah, that, that, that story is besides the point. Right, exactly.

Em: But no, like he, he clearly like– But that does prove like he clearly thought that he had a good plan. It’s like–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: –you couldn’t have written that and thought, “This, this, uh, this makes me look a lot more innocent.”

Christine: Right.

Em: Like this is– “Well, they gave me permission to kill them.”

Christine: “Yeah, they wan– Sh–“

Em: Well, they, they volunteered for this. They asked for it.”

Christine: Yeah. “She gets, she gets to decide. She’s four.” Like what the fuck–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –are you on about? Seriously.

Em: What are you talking about? Oh my god.

Christine: So they find this fucking letter, and it’s like so long and wordy and like kind of unhinged, and it talks about the end of the world and it’s like, “We’re all in a better place ’cause it’s the end of the world,” yada yada, “we wanted to be together and die together so that we’d be together forever in the afterlife.” It’s just nonsense.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: So Tony was taken to the hospital for treatment about this overdose. Um, he apparently had taken over 40 times the normal therapeutic level of diphenhydramine, uh, which is Benadryl’s active ingredient. Um, he had apparently– It had appeared to them that he had been consuming Benadryl over multiple days to keep himself sedated or slowly poison himself.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Didn’t work. Barely 48 hours later with Tony medically stabilized, Osceola County detectives sat him down for a formal interview to be like, “Hey bud, what the fuck is going on?”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: They read him his rights and began asking the question that had to be asked, which is, “Tony, what happened to your family?” And–

Em: “They asked for it. That’s what– It’s in the letter.”

Christine: “It’s in the– Just read– Did you read the letter?”

Em: [chuckles] Yeah.

Christine: “It kind of clarifies it.”

Em: “Sounds like you don’t know how to read.”

Christine: “This could have been an email. Check the letter.” No. What followed was a shocking confession.

Em: Oh.

Christine: Tony freely admitted to murdering his wife, his three children, and their dog, Breezy.

Em: Oh– Hm.

Christine: In a calm, detailed voice captured on a taped recording, Tony explained that he had done it out of love and a desire to save them. He claimed that he and Megan had made a mutual pact. They were convinced, he said, that an apocalypse was imminent and that by ending their lives, they could all “pass over” together to the other side before the cataclysm.

Em: Ah…

Christine: He basically then continued to describe, step by step, how this family annihilation was carried out.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: I’m not gonna read every detail ’cause it’s pretty heinous, but I’ll read most of it. Tony said that in mid-December 2019, he and Megan agreed “everybody needed to die” so they could maintain their unity in the afterlife. On a chosen night just before Christmas, they set the plan in motion. And according to Tony, he was the one who physically killed the children, one by one. In the recording, he gives graphic details about – eugh, ooh, it’s really rough – uh, suffocating his own children, um, and then stabbing them in the abdomen with a kitchen knife to ensure they were dead. He did the same thing to all three of his children until they were motionless. And weirdly enough, um, just side note, later autopsy showed that the stab wounds were post-mortem–

Em: Oh.

Christine: –which is strange to me.

Em: I don’t know how it got worse, but okay.

Christine: Yeah. I don’t, I don’t know what that’s about though. Like why? Why post-mortem? Why would you stab–

Em: Like to just double check? Or is it like–

Christine: To like stage something? I don’t know.

Em: I– Maybe to stage something or like maybe like when he like– I’m imagining he’s snapped, as they say.

Christine: Right.

Em: Um, and maybe when he realized what he actually did, he reacted again. I don’t f– I don’t know.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It says– Yeah. I mean, people can only hypothesize that like he was just trying to–

Em: Agh.

Christine: –be sure that he had–

Em: Done it? Yeah.

Christine: –you know– Yeah. Done it all the way through. Throughout this recitation, Tony remained eerily composed, uh, just talking through it like nonchalantly pretty much.

Em: Mm.

Christine: In his confession, Tony painted Megan as a willing participant in the plan. Um, he claimed that after he killed the chil-children, Megan turned the knife on herself and stabbed herself in the abdomen.

Em: Bullshit.

Christine: [laughs] I know. When those wounds didn’t immediately kill her, Tony said he felt he had to finish the job out of mercy or spiritual necessity. Quote, “I put my hands over her mouth and a pillow over top of her until she stopped moving.” Uh, after that, according to Tony, he noticed Megan was somehow still alive. Uh, so in a rather cold side note, he added he “needed to save her soul,” um, so he– she would see her children “on the other side” as they had planned. Um, so he needed to make sure that they were all goners, including the dog, because of course the dog was a member of the family, and they wanted the dog to be with them in the afterlife. Uh–

Em: Couldn’t just like– I mean, I get– I, I guess I get that ass-logic, but like c– we couldn’t just like send him somewhere?

Christine: No, no, no, no. Yeah. Why kill the dog? Tony’s answer: I wanted the dog to be with us– “I wanted her to be with us too because dogs have soul– souls as well.”

Em: So, um, what– how much of that do you believe in the wor– in terms of like the religious m– cult–

Christine: Zero.

Em: Okay. I also think zero.

Christine: I– It’s a good question ’cause some people wonder. ’Cause it’s unclear. Like I’ll be honest, like we still don’t totally know if any of that was true. I call complete and utter bullshit.

Em: Me too.

Christine: That’s my own opinion, yeah.

Em: I, I feel like that was just the cover he came up with of like–

Christine: Nonsense.

Em: And he texted the, the family member like, “Oh, the world’s ending,” so that way it looked like–

Christine: That’s–

Em: –it was– so it looked like it she was in on it as well.

Christine: Right. And I watched some creators cover the story and say like, “Well, why would she say that the earth– the world is ending? Like was that really part of it?” And I was just screaming at my computer, “That wasn’t her.”

Em: It wasn’t her.

Christine: I can promise you that wasn’t her. That was him–

Em: And also–

Christine: –planting seeds for his fucking weird-ass story–

Em: Yes.

Christine: –he was inventing in the s– on the spot.

Em: And also if it was her, like, and she really “believed that like he did,” quote, then she wouldn’t have said anything because they’d hidden it up until this point. Why say anything right before you’re about to e-end it all?

Christine: That’s the other thing. It’s like either you would be telling people like, “Don’t worry. We’re going to a better place. I really believe this, and you should listen to me too.”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Or if you had hidden it for a reason, you’d fucking probably keep it that way. So yeah, right. It doesn’t really make sense.

Em: Or if you really believed that, you would be trying to recruit people you also love–

Christine: Everybody else.

Em: –so everybody ca–

Christine: Exactly.

Em: Yeah. So, uh, bullshit. And I think it sounds like classic family annihilator where he just absolutely snapped at the financial issues, uh, killed them all because he thought that–

Christine: It was just easier for him.

Em: –he was gonna help th– he was helping them by taking them out of the suffering that he’s enduring–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –or something. And then he was like–

Christine: That's what he told himself. And now it’s like, “Oh, I gotta s–“

Em: “I gotta make it religious.” Yeah.

Christine: “Now I get to start over without all these burdens on me,” you know.

Em: Mm. Wow.

Christine: A sick wife, three kids.

Em: And also for weeks like he had to have been sitting and pondering like, “How do I get rid of the evidence?” Like it’s wild that he wasn’t proactive at all in any of this.

Christine: Mm-mmm.

Em: Like n– I don’t know if that’s even the right word, but like if you did this truly becau– I’m, I’m gonna just assume he really loved his family and kids, and then he had a full-blown mental breakdown with the financial stuff, and then this happened. You would think within the next 24 hours after he’s killed them, he would be like in complete mourning and, and– but also in total f– panic that this happened: “how do I hide the evidence?” I can’t imagine sitting next to the evidence for weeks and not thinking– Or maybe he thought, “Eventually, they’re gonna get me, and I just need to ‘own up to it’ with a, ‘with a story.’”

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I don’t know. I don’t understand how he–

Christine: I– M–

Em: He had all that time to come up with a fucking plan, and he didn’t come up with a plan.

Christine: I think he had planned this for a while. I think his plan was to make it look like a murder-suicide pact between him and his wife.

Em: Sure.

Christine: And that’s what he tried to do, and then he claimed he just couldn’t go through with the suicide part.

Em: Okay. Well.

Christine: Fucking idiot.

Em: And also like if you really believe that and now it’s past December 28, don’t you feel kind of stupid that–

Christine: Yeah, good point.

Em: Everyone’s dead now. Don’t you wish you could, uh, not killed them since you think December 28 was the end of the o– the world?

Christine: Well, when they asked him, uh, how he felt now that he was alive and his family’s gone, he said, “I’m sad I’m still here.”

Em: Okay.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Well.

Christine: Sure. It seemed open and shut, right? So January 15, 202020– 202020? [laughs] What is wrong with me?

Em: 2020202020. [laughs] Wow.

Christine: January 15–

Em: That is how long 2020 felt, I’ll tell you. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] It really is. I feel like it’s still happening.

Em: Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: It’s like we’re just in an infinite loop.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: On January 15 of 2020, Anthony Todt was formally arrested and charged with four counts of first-degree homicide and one count of felony animal cruelty.

Em: Mm.

Christine: The state of Florida now had a man who had ostensibly confessed to a full f-familicide, like a full– uh, what’s the word you use? A family annihilator situation.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, this is like a death penalty level case. So he was extradited from the hospital to the county jail where he was placed on suicide watch. Um, he was kept inside a steel cage, which was like–

Em: Hm.

Christine: Some people thought was, um, because he was a suicide risk, but then also it’s like you killed your four-year-old daughter like–

Em: Right.

Christine: –in cold blood, like you’re probably gonna get the shit beat out of you, you know, so it could be because of that. Um, as he sat in jail in the months awaiting trial, his story about what happened started to change a little bit, Em, wouldn’t ya know it.

Em: I just might have had a hunch.

Christine: He forgot that he didn’t actually kill anybody.

Em: Ohh, okay.

Christine: Actually, he wasn’t even home when it happened.

Em: Isn’t it funny how that worked out?

Christine: [laughs] Isn’t it funny how you forget?

Em: Was he j– at that Starbucks? He was, uh, at the CVS?

Christine: [chuckles] He was getting a caramel macchiato–

Em: And peanut M&M’s.

Christine: What the fuck else do you want from this guy, you know?

Em: So he– So are– Have we lost the whole plot on like December 28 and religion and like our–

Christine: We’ve not lost the plot. We’ve just given it hand over heart to Megan and said she’s crazy.

Em: Oh, that’s beautiful. Okay.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I love that.

Christine: You know, classic. Um, so in the first few weeks behind bars, he called his sister, Chrissy, uh, who was like, “What the fuck is going on?”

Em: Truly.

Christine: And– Yeah, right. And these calls, of course, are recorded and were later, uh, obtained by newspapers. Um, Tony insisted that he was confused and, and had nothing to do with it. He said, “I couldn’t stop this because I wasn’t there.” He asserted he had been working in Connecticut or maybe running errands. Like the story would change. Um, essentially, he was just claiming he was not home when his family died. And he started to now sow seeds of blame toward Megan.

Em: Mm.

Christine: In the jail calls, Tony suggested Megan had been very unstable, this wasn’t the first time she had “tried something.” He said there had been “multiple attempts."

Em: Mm.

Christine: Uh, cryptically he would say lines like that to just kind of insinuate, you know, that this– that Megan–

Em: She was dark, yeah.

Christine: –was crazy and dark and unwell. This was the first hint of what Tony would turn into his full defense in court that Megan did everything. He did nothing at all.

Em: Okay. Go for– I mean, I’m sure that’s the direction we went. S– Yeah.

Christine: Right. Of course. Why not? Um, so she pressed Tony on this. She’s like, “What do you mean you weren’t there? What about your confession?” And he says, “I don’t remember a confession.” He claimed–

Em: What the fuck do you mean?

Christine: –the entire period of that time of December was a blur and that anything he said under– said to police was under duress or, uh– or misguided loyalty to Megan.

Em: [scoffs]

Christine: He was like, “If I said anything that implicated me, it’s because I was on a lot of Benadryl and going through something or I was trying to defend my wife,” but nobody knows.

Em: Okay. I don’t even– The– I, I imagine as he’s saying this to people, their eyes are just like rolling so far in their head. Like he has to be seeing people not believing it.

Christine: I– You know, and it’s hard ’cause poor Chrissy is his little sister, and they grew up in a very traumatic way that like they very bonded. And so it’s really horrible because she’s like so confused and trying to understand like, “They’re your kids. They’re my nie– uh, nephews and niece. Like what are you talking about?” You know, that like–

Em: And also to have gone through trauma yourself with him–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and then to know that he was arguably just as bad, if not worse, than– He was like the one person you could trust through all that.

Christine: Oh, Em.

Em: I can’t wait.

Christine: Wow, you’re leading me right into my little segue. Wow. Oh.

Em: That’s what I do. That’s what I do.

Christine: Ooh, it’s poignant. Okay. So Chrissy later told reporters that Tony’s claims in those calls were utterly unbelievable to her because she had known Megan well. I mean, they started dating in high school, right?

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Like she had known this girl since high s– since they were teenagers. And they were really close, and she had never seen any sign that this girl was violent, suicidal, like mentally unwell. Something in Tony’s voice hinted that even he wasn’t like– like he kept vacillating. Like he would change things around, um, depending on what suited him in that moment, and it–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Just nothing rang true about what he said. In June of 2020, Tony took a more concrete step. This is the last thing I’m gonna read for part one here. In June 2020, Tony took a more concrete step to lay out his defense and his version of events. And in doing so, he penned a long rambling letter of 27 handwritten pages to his father, Robert “Bob” Todt. Now, Chrissy and Tony had been estranged from Bob, their father, for most of their lives.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Because, um, Tony couldn’t reconcile and Chrissy couldn’t reconcile what their father had done.

Em: Oh, shit. Okay.

Christine: You see, back in 1980, when Tony was just four years old, he had witnessed–

Em: Please.

Christine: –a hitman that his father had hired to break into the family home and shoot his mother.

Em: ‘kay. Like father, like son.

Christine: Thank you. The apple does not fall far from the tree. And that is part one. And next week we’ll get into the story of Bob Todt’s attempted murder of his own wife. Like a replay. Like imagine that.

Em: If I find–

Christine: Oh, and spoiler.

Em: What?

Christine: Bob thinks that this– This is the most insane part of all. Bob, the dad, who went to prison for attempting to kill his wife. When this all happened with his son, Tony, he expressed concern that Tony’s case was giving him bad press. [laughs]

Em: Shut the fuck up. [laughs] Just a–

Christine: That’s how these people are. Like they’re so–

Em: Just a sea–

Christine: They're mental cases.

Em: –of assholes. Oh my god.

Christine: Like a sea of assholes.

Em: Man. [sighs] That is terrible. Um, [sighs] and–

Christine: [chuckles] It’s just like shocking. Anyway, so now you see why I had to go into a part two ’cause like that’s–

Em: I get it.

Christine: –just the fucking beginning, dude.

Em: I totally– Are we gonna go back to it at all or are we just going–?

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: Okay. I didn’t know if we were just getting a two for one situation here, but I guess technically we are.

Christine: Oh, you’re get– You are. And you’re– Don’t worry, you’re gonna get the finale also of like – thank god – the prison sentence, so.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: Like just wait.

Em: I totally get why you needed more time. I totally get it.

Christine: And there’s so much shit, dude. Like there’s so much shit. I’m listening to, um– There’s a full podcast on this called Finding– I think it’s called Finding the Todt Family, um, and where– it’s like they interview neighbors and like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –talk to family members, and, um, that’s really good too becau– But that’s, that’s the trouble I get in ’cause then I’m like, “Well, I’d like to put all 11 episodes worth of information into my notes,” and it’s like, “Hm.”

Em: There are, there are some stories where I have started them–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –and I plan to finish them, but I’m like, “Oh, I can do this in like two days.” Nope. Or like, “Oh–“

Christine: “Ah, just like another quote, another fun fact.” yeah.

Em: There have been some stories where I’ve started like, um, over a week in advance because there’s so much stuff, and then when I think I’m finally done, then there’s like a Netflix eight-episode special.

Christine: Then you find–

Em: And I’m like, “What the fuck?”

Christine: –a source.

Em: I’m so–

Christine: Exactly.

Em: Yeah. I can’t–

Christine: Exactly. Oh, uh, the podcast’s called Looking For The Todt Family–

Em: Got it.

Christine: –I apologize.

Em: Cool.

Christine: Um, but yeah, it’s really good and really da– of course, really dark, but if you want to like get a more in-depth, um, storyline of how this went down, please feel free to listen. Um–

Em: Yeah. Oof. Well–

Christine: Alright.

Em: –well told.

Christine: Thank you.

Em: Um, I hope you’re feeling a little better. Do you have any, do you have any plans for today besides just bed rest?

Christine: Mm, I gotta blow my nose a few more times–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –and, um, I’ll probably make some, make some mac and cheese for everybody tonight, you know.

Em: That’s nice of you to make mac and cheese for everybody when you’re sick. I’d be like, “This is my mac and cheese. [chuckles] You can figure it out.”

Christine: [chuckles] Normally, I’d make something, normally I’d make something a little more– I don’t know. Now that I have a child, I feel a little more, um– I don’t make it for Blaise. I make it for [chuckles], for Leona and me. Um, he eats like healthy stuff. [laughs]

Em: Do– Is it just like a box mac or you got a recipe or what?

Christine: You know, I don’t know yet. I haven’t quite decided.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Depends on how I feel in about one hour, [chuckles] two hours.

Em: I would imagine if you’re sick, box it up.

Christine: Yeah, it’s usually how we end up going.

Em: Yeah. Well, feel better.

Christine: Thank you.

Em: And, uh, everybody who’s listening, I hope you’re excited for the next episode where we get the finale of this because–

Christine: [sighs]

Em: –I am hooked, so–

Christine: Jeez.

Em: –well done. Um, and we’ll see you when we– we’ll see you next week w– [chuckles]

Christine: [chuckles] We’ll see ya when we see ya.

Em: I was like, “When, when do we record again?” But–

Christine: Oh, you know what?

Em: What?

Christine: Wh– The next episode, not this one, but the one we record next, comes out on 2/22.

Em: [gasps] Love.

Christine: Your lucky number.

Em: Love. Also, by the way, if that comes out on 2/22, that means that this one came out– What day?

Christine: 2/15.

Em: 2/15.

Christine: Oh, happy Valentine’s Day.

Em: Happy Valentine’s Day. And also, um, happy fucking nine years. [laughs]

Christine: Ah! [laughs] Well, you know, I forget every year, right? So– [laughs]

Em: [laughs] Oh, I just realized.

Christine: Every year.

Em: I was like, “Did we miss it?” Um–

Christine: Oh, shit.

Em: Wow.

Christine: Of course we missed it. When is it? February 11?

Em: I think so. So it’s this week. This is the nine– nine-year ep– anniversary episode.

Christine: [sings an angelic musical sting]

Em: Very cool. Well, [chuckles] happy anniversary, everyone. We’ll have to c–

Christine: Good thing I blew my nose repeatedly on air.

Em: We will have to, uh– I don’t know.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Let’s talk, talk about this for the next month.

Christine: Woo-hoo! [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: We’ll remember– At our birth– in our birthday month, we’ll give it a shout-out.

Em: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, okay.

Christine: We won’t forget that.

Em: Well, everyone celebrate for us. Take– Have a little drink for our nine year. Uh–