E471 Crop Top Capes and a Beatles Ghost

TOPICS: THE BERINI HAUNTING, THE TODT FAMILY MURDERS PT. 2

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It’s episode 471 and we’ve got 99 strawblems but a drink ain’t one! Today Em takes us to New England for the Berini Haunting which is surprisingly insidious. Then Christine covers Part 2 of the Todt Family Murders which is just as much of a doozy as promised. And is this the first time we’re genuinely saying “Thanks, Priests”?! …and that’s why we drink!

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Transcript

[intro music]

Christine: Hello and welcome to And That’s Why We Drink, a podcast where Em’s already sipping the tea. 

Em: Oh, beautiful. 

Christine: Do we say that anymore? Is that old, old jargon? 

Em: Um, I think it’s that stuff– 

Christine: What’s the tea? 

Em: –that has somehow– it has, it has– I don’t think– I think it’s a timeless phrase now. 

Christine: I think you’re right. And I think some like, um, ancillary– 

Em: Or spilling the tea. 

Christine: I think some ancillary phrases like “spill the tea” might not be as popular now, but I think like just saying, “Oh, what’s the tea?” is like still pretty okay, right? Am I, am I gauging this correctly? 

Em: As someone who’s also your age, I think so. 

Christine: You are more chronically online than I am, so I usually ask you or my bro– 

Em: Aw. 

Christine: –and/or my brother. Um– 

Em: Very sweet. Thank you. 

Christine: –and you both take that as a compliment, which is kind of wild. But anyway, I’m glad about that, so. Anyway– [laughs] 

Em: Nicest thing you can say about me is that I– 

Christine: –what are you– 

Em: –I, I’m in– 

Christine: What are you drinking? 

Em: –I’m in the know. 

Christine: What tea? 

Em: I’m drinking– [sighs] Well, I have a little– 

Christine: Spill the tea, babe. 

Em: [chuckles] I have my usual tea, my little, my little black tea with, with some lavender in it. But then I also have a, an, an extra surprise. I have a real situation on my hands over here that, that– 

Christine: Whoa, what could that possibly mean? 

Em: At the Shake Shack, I got a real craving lately for their strawberry lemonade. It has been– 

Christine: Oh? 

Em: –unmatched over here. I– And, and Shake Shack is I think open till like midnight or 1 in the morning here. And so I got this– In the middle of the night, I was like, “Oh god, I don’t know what I would give. Oh my god.” I was like f-foaming at the mouth for it. And so I got me “t-ree” [three], and I– 

Christine: Whoa! 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Well, you got to hit that like minimum order threshold. 

Em: Well, yeah. I, I couldn’t justify the purchase of just one strawberry lemonade– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –um– 

Christine: With like an $18 delivery fee, and it’s like– 

Em: Yuck, yeah. Um, but I– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: One of the reasons I, I got that many though is because I was gonna have one that night, and then I knew I was gonna be here, and then I also want one for the dog park. It was– I’m really– I’m having a, a moment with the “strawblem,” you know. 

Christine: You’re sort of like propping yourself up for the next few days, which I kind of love, you know. 

Em: Yeah. Always be prepared, scout’s honor. So– 

Christine: Yeah, I love that. 

Em: Um, I’ve got my tea, got my strawblem. I’m very, I’m very happy over here. What are you drinking? 

Christine: Got a 90– I gotta a pr-problem– 

Em: 99 strawblems? [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I got 99 strawblems, and a, and a drink ain’t one. I don’t know. Why do you drink? 

Christine: Bitch ain’t one. What? 

Em: Wh– And wh-what do you drink? 

Christine: [laughs] I– [chuckles] I’m still ashamed of myself for not realizing that Biggby coffee is a big B. And– 

Em: I– 

Christine: –today, I ordered it, and I felt like it was– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –sort of my karmic [chuckles] punishment to order it again. I haven’t ordered it since we recorded that one episode with– But now today, I was like, “Gotta get me some, uh, some sustenance.” I got the “Spotted Owl” drink. Um, they have about 75 ice lattes on their menu– 

Em: Mm! 

Christine: –and they all are like “marshmallow teddy bear clouds” and stuff like that, and I gotta say they’re pretty darn good. 

Em: I have been– Is friend-flirting a word where like I– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –have been going to a local coffee place, um, that’s near my house for a long time now, and ever since then, uh, I’ve had– uh, I’ve known all the people’s names there because I, unfortunately or fortunately, a regular. And I have wanted to be friends with this one person for so long– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and– 

Christine: Is it someone who works there or a, a customer? 

Em: Someone who works there, yeah. 

Christine: Oh, I love that. Okay. 

Em: I just thought they were so cool. They had a cool little vibe, and I was like, “Oh my god, I, I would love to hang out with you outside of like you handing me a drink.” Um– 

Christine: “you serving me in a retail environment.” [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] “The five seconds I get before you’re talking to somebody else– 

Christine: [laughs] “Listen–“ 

Em: “–and then I’m jealous.” 

Christine: “–don’t get me wrong, it’s great. It’s great, but–“ [chuckles] 

Em: Uh, but so, uh, it’s finally happening! And so– 

Christine: Oh my god. Whoa. 

Em: We’re having a little hangout soon. Very excited about that. 

Christine: How did you ask them to hang out? 

Em: Um, I literally said– 

Christine: Asking for a friend. [laughs] 

Em: –“Do you want to be friends in real life?” Um– 

Christine: Oh! Wow. 

Em: But enough, enough time had passed that I had a feeling it would be a “yes.” It– ’Cause– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –we see each other quite often. 

Christine: What, um– 

Em: And then every time I come, it’s so nice. They go, “[gasps] Em, oh my god, so glad to see you.” And I was– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: A part of me was like, “Is that a lie? Is that what you say to all your customers?” 

Christine: You should ha– I was gonna say you should hide out and see if that’s what they say to all their customers. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: But it sounds like you’ve already had this intrusive thought, so. 

Em: We’ve, we’ve also like– We go to the same pharmacy, so we’ve bumped into each other there. So like it’s been very small town, so we’ve, we’ve ran into each other a few times accidentally, and now we’re gonna run into each other on purpose. I’m very excited. 

Christine: [chuckles] Oh, fantastic. What do you h– What is your date? 

Em: I think it’s just gonna be– 

Christine: Your friend date? 

Em: –a little dinner, little dinner moment. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: But I, uh– 

Christine: Love that. 

Em: I– Sorry. I feel like I took over your story there by accident about how– 

Christine: What was my story? 

Em: Well, that– 

Christine: I don’t even think I had a story. 

Em: –that you went to your place, and there was a whole bunch of different tea lattes, and that– What happened in my brain when that happened was I remembered my coffee place that has all the tea latte options, and then it– 

Christine: Oh, I mean, you just grabbed my hand, and I went with you. I don’t know where I was going. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: You know, I didn’t know where I was going anywhere. I said something about honey bear m-marshmallow clouds, [chuckles] and I think– 

Em: You did. 

Christine: –that was where we stopped. 

Em: Usually, that’s– that would be the thing that propels further conversation though. 

Christine: It is a start– a launching pad. Yeah, but like honestly they’re just delicious, and that’s kind of all I’ve got to add to the conversation. So I'd much rather hear about your, um, adventures in friend dating, I guess. 

Em: Thank you. Thank you. I’m also going to dinner tonight with, um, an Uber driver, so. 

Christine: Wow. I’ve never been to “oovoo javer.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: I’m sorry. [laughs] I was on, I was on TikTok this morning, which is like a once a week occurrence, and, um, I guess I just got in a loop of like liking the Vine compilations, and it’s just been really dr– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: It’s been draining my f– It’s been really taking up a lot of my karmic energy– 

Em: So you– 

Christine: –cosmic energy. 

Em: –you are very chronically online yourself. 

Christine: I have been lately, you know– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –and, uh, it’s new for me. It’s, it’s not new for me but used to be Neopets. Now it’s like actually like current events, pop culture. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: I mean, things are crazy. Right before we recorded, there was like– I was, I was scrolling, and there was like a live, um– There was a press conference. NBC News was, uh, streaming a press conference for the, um, Savannah Gu-Guthrie’s mom. Like did you see this? 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: She was kidnapped. Savannah Guthrie from The Today Show– 

Em: What? 

Christine: –her mother was– Her 84-year-old mother was kidnapped from her house. 

Em: Oh my god. Oh my god. No, I didn’t know this at all. 

Christine: And they found– It’s crazy. I just like learned about it. I think it was only a couple days ago, but they, um, they had a press conference, and I like popped in to see if they had any news, and they didn’t really say much except that they think she’s still out there. There’s potential rumor that the brother-in-law is involved. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Y– There was a guy who was walking out of the house with, um– and he was wearing a Internet Crimes Against Children like badge or logo– 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: –and carrying like a case of something out of the house. And so like people are saying, “Whose is that? Like what was on there? Is it a laptop?” Um– 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: –it’s just crazy. And they found blood on the porch, and it’s hers. They did DNA tests, and it’s the mom’s blood. 

Em: Oh no. Oh my god. That’s so s– Oh. 

Christine: Yeah. And apparently she’s on a lot of meds an– that she doesn’t have. It’s just like really bizarre. Like the world– Like some– The top comment on one of the posts I saw had like 4,000 likes, and it was just like, “Does anybody else feel like we’re just in like the craziest simulation? We’re just like throwing shit at the wall?” Like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –every time I open my phone, I’m like, “Oh, good. Trump confused Greenland and Iceland.” I mean, that was weeks ago now. But like, you know– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –just every like little thing, I’m like, “This feels fake. This feels like I’m in a coma making up like– like stringing things together that don’t make sense.” Do you know what I mean? 

Em: Yeah. And I’ve also, um– Yeah. I’m just gonna end– Yes. I– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Yes. 

Em: It feels like– Before I spiral, uh, it’s, uh, been crazy. Although, I’ve been very impressed last time I, uh– my– I was on the– I went to the dog park, and I was talking to my mom, and she was saying so many correct things. It was shocking. Not, not, not that she’s constantly saying incorrect things, but I didn’t know how well-read she has recently become. 

Christine: Oh, good. 

Em: Um, and she was s– I was like, “Yeah, yeah. Who’s talking to you that’s not me? What’s going on? Where’d you–“ 

Christine: And she’s like, “6 7.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: That’s right. 

Christine: “What’s the tea? Spill the tea.” 

Em: [laughs] Which– The, the way that she was, uh– In, in the world of, uh, politics, I feel like usually I’m the one trying to kind of hold her hand through it, and she was just saying everything. I was like, “You got another kid? Who’s fucking talking to you?” 

Christine: I was gonna say, she’s found a new Em. 

Em: I– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: “Do you say this to everybody?” 

Christine: [laughs] What is wrong with us? Immediate thought: “Do you talk to all your customers this way?” Like what– Are we sick? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Like what’s going on? [laughs] 

Em: But, uh, I was very proud of her. I was like, “Oh, I didn’t know we had pro–“ She’s been promoted, I s– I guess. 

Christine: Wow, she’s leveled up, you could say. 

Em: I, I don’t know who– what person is behind her algorithm, but keep it going, so. 

Christine: Okay, but does it also even out because you did just tell me before we hit record that she learned about the Kardashians. [laughs] 

Em: I think she just finally went on the internet. I think that’s what’s going on here. 

Christine: [laughs] Oh, okay. Is that all it took? Em was like, “Yeah. She’s like, ‘Hey, Kim Kardashian is kinda cool.’” And Em’s like, “Where have you been?” [laughs] 

Em: [chuckles] She, she for like ten minutes like the other day– 

Christine: Fascinating. 

Em: –she was like, “This Kim Kardashian, she’s something else.” 

Christine: Her algo must be crazy. [laughs] 

Em: I, I think she just, yeah. Finally logged on. I don’t know. Um– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: Anyway, uh, why do you drink? Do you– 

Christine: ’Cause of this shit. 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: I’m just– Every time I go on the internet, I’m like, “What the fuck is going on?” [chuckles] And then they’re like, “Don’t worry, the star– star Regulus is gonna align with the Sphinx, and then we’re all gonna see an alien.” And it’s like on NBC News– 

Em: Please god. 

Christine: –and I’m like, “What? [laughs] Why are we reporting this?” I mean, listen, I don’t not believe it, but also like everyone’s just acting like this is totally normal. Everything’s just falling apart. And, you know, I saw something very comforting because I’ve always felt kinda like a freak ’cause when these really big world events happen, I get almost excited. And it’s not like excited like I’m happy, obviously, that things– that bad things are happening, but there’s just something in the air of like change, you know? And like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –one of the comments I saw that was so evocative and effective in like explaining my thinking was somebody on Reddit said, “Why does it feel like evil is winning?” And you’ll, you’ll understand this, um, metaphor, Em, th– somebody said, “You know when you, um, exterminate cockroaches from your home, [chuckles] and you set off the thing, and they all come scurrying out?” 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: “And it looks worse than it– than it was, but it’s actually just like clearing–” So I feel– 

Em: Well, what it’s like– It– You’re finally seeing what it’s always been. 

Christine: Yeah. You’re like smoking out the like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –fucking demons, and they’re all coming out. They’re all on bla– It’s all of them. It’s all of them. It’s all the power– all the powerful people. Fucking trash. I mean, they’re just going about their day. 

Em: It– 

Christine: I– It’s just crazy. So I, I hope that at least like– And then somebody said, “Oh, sunlight or being like, um, being, being revealed to, like on a mass scale, is the most disinfecting thing.” Like putting this out in the open– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –is what’s gonna like finally clear– cleanse us out, clear this out. We’re all gonna, hopefully– 

Em: I know. 

Christine: –hopefully– 

Em: These days hope– 

Christine: –step the fuck up. 

Em: –feels like a foreign concept, but. [chuckles] 

Christine: No, no, no. That’s why you gotta keep the hope. The trolls want you to lose your hope. That’s how they’re gonna win this. So you gotta just– We gotta buckle in. We always knew this was happening. We always knew these people were evil. Now it’s just on display. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Now we just gotta do something about it. 

Em: Uh, yes. I– You’re– I’m agreeing with you. I’m just trying to figure out which of the 20 things I would like to say, but I think I– It’s– I– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: I mean, I’m not gonna say anything that nobody else isn’t feeling at this point. Uh, I think you’re correct to publicly be, um, trying to encourage hope instead of what I’d be encouraging– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –which is just a– one big scream. Um, [chuckles] so, uh– 

Christine: No, ’cause that just– 

Em: –you’re probably right. 

Christine: –that just, that just wallows, you know, and there’s place for wallow, but like we just gotta use that anger, you know? I have my little print here: “stay open to the wisdom of anger.” You know, we’re all fucking pissed off. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: We’re over it, right? We’re done. 

Em: Well, I guess we’re– 

Christine: These people are ped– These people are pedophiles. Like how much more do you need to be like, “Mm, I don’t know about this,” you know? 

Em: I know. I know. 

Christine: Anyway, so. 

Em: It’s– There’s, there’s– It– It’s just shocking. Every day I wake up, and I’m like, “Oh, I just– How, how, how are we finding ways to turn the narrative?” It– Or like– Or not even show that– It’s crazy that nothing has happened. That’s the thing that I’m most– 

Christine: I mean, the fact that in those comments about, um– 

Em: No perp walk. Like I saw– This is the only silliness– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –I can find in here, but someone, um, posted something saying like, “Where the fuck is Olivia Benson right now?” It’s like– [chuckles] 

Christine: I mean, literally. Okay, so then– But see– 

Em: Mariska Hargitay has the opportunity to do the funniest thing right now, I’m just saying. [chuckles] 

Christine: Mariska could really– 

Em: Go to the White House, Mariska. Just bring some handcuffs and– 

Christine: Show your badge at the front lawn. 

Em: Even if it’s just for the press, the photo op? People would– 

Christine: [groans] 

Em: –go nuts for the photo op. “She’s here!” 

Christine: NBC is missing the fuck out. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Well, they’re covering the fucking Today Show’s host’s mom disappearing. Um, by the way, the fact that the f– one of the comments on there was like, “I think this is– They’re just distracting from like the Epstein files,” I’m like, “So now they’re just like–“ People are saying, “Oh, they’re just kidnapping people to like just–“ and I’m like, “This is really insane.” Like the world right now feels absolutely diabolically insane. Um, but I will also add that I just saw– Where did it go? They’re offering a $50,000 reward now for um, Savannah Guthrie’s mother. 

Em: Oh my god. I, I can’t imagine being Savannah Guthrie today. [sighs] 

Christine: It’s a wild, uh– It’s a wild thing, so. 

Em: That’s– 

Christine: It’s just a weird– It’s just weird, you know? 

Em: Yep. I know. 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: So wanna talk about ghosts? [chuckles] 

Em: Sure. Yeah. I guess I don’t have ano– a reason why I drink either. I guess– 

Christine: Oh, right. I guess I should ask you too. 

Em: No. Uh, I bought a bag that looks like Fruity Pebbles. 

Christine: [laughs] Wait. Okay, like a box of Fruity– You got to explain. The bag looks like a Fruity Pebble? A bowl of Fruity Pebbles? A box? 

Em: I see what you’re saying. I’m trying to find– 

Christine: I must– 

Em: Where, where can I find levity in this fucking hellscape. Hang on. Um. 

Christine: I must know. 

Em: It’s, it’s a– It looks like a box of Fruity Pebbles. 

Christine: Oh, wait. I can’t see. 

Em: Hang on. We-well, I haven’t– 

Christine: Oh, oh, oh. 

Em: Uh, bes– [chuckles] 

Christine: Sorry, I thought it was ’cause it– ’Cause my window wasn’t– 

Em: Please let me bestow something upon you. 

Christine: [laughs] ‘kay– 

Em: Are you fucking kidding me? 

Christine: Okay. Display. 

Em: Okay. Bag. 

[Em holds up a red tote bag. The outside of the bag looks like a Fruity Pebbles box with the Post logo in the top left corner, Fruity Pebbles logo across the center top, and the Flintstones, scaled to the size of the cereal on the box, holding spoons in their hands and jumping in the air with a large bowl of Fruity Pebbles underneath them.] 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, that’s cool. I like that. 

Em: And then on the inside– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –it looks like Fruity Pebbles. 

[Em pulls the side of the bag down, showing the interior lining of a patterned close-up photo of Fruity Pebbles cereal.] 

Christine: See, I knew there was something more to this. This is amazing. 

Em: Take a bite. Take a big bite. Take a– 

[Em holds the interior of the bag up to camera, almost as if putting the bag over the camera, until Em’s screen is filled with only Fruity Pebbles.] 

Christine: That actually looks– 

Em: Have a little escape. 

Christine: –”delicioso.” 

Em: Little [makes a gulping sound]. 

Christine: Who made that? Did somebody make that? 

[Em lowers the bag, looking at the label briefly before putting the bag down.] 

Em: Uh, no. It– Uh, well– 

Christine: Where did you buy that? 

Em: I– Well, I couldn’t tell you a single fucking thing. I bought it on the street, so. 

Christine: Whoa. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You bought it on the street. 

Em: I don’t know. I was having a mental breakdown, and I was like, “That looks great. I’ll take it.” So. [laughs] 

Christine: “That looks great. I’ll take it.” 

Em: [sighs] Sometimes you just gotta– 

Christine: “I’ll take three.” 

Em: –do a little, a little, uh, street shopping, you know? 

Christine: You know, I– And I’ve always said that. 

Em: And I’ve al– Literally, I can’t even stop saying it. So um, there you go. I had my fr– I was trying to find some levity. I hope everyone finds a little, a little joy. I appreciate, Christine, that you are very pro-hope, and I, I hope to be hopeful, but I am having a bit of a down day just ’cause it’s all so overwhelming. But maybe tomorrow, I’ll, I’ll be hopeful. 

Christine: Oh, oh, oh, don’t, don’t get me wrong. 

Em: You know what I mean? 

Christine: My nervous system is in complete overloaded despair. But, you know, I’m working on it. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: We gotta heal ourselves and heal the world. 

Em: Oh, [singing “We Are the World” by USA For Africa] ♪ We are the world ♪ We should start singing like– 

Christine: Let’s hold hands. 

Em: –everyone did during COVID. It– [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh my god. I remember. It’s so cringy. 

Em: ♪ Imagine all the people ♪♪ [laughs] 

Christine: And they’re just at their shitty webcams, and it’s like– 

Em: “Hello?” 

Christine: –this is so– He– This is so embarrassing. And then, and then it was like a week into COVID. And then like a year later, it was like, “Oh dear, we didn’t know anything about–“ 

Em: I just really need them to come back and sing ’cause maybe this time it’ll work, you know. 

Christine: I think they really– [chuckles] They were– They shot their shot too soon. Like try again. 

Em: They were accidentally– You know how they say like the, the Hollywood elites have some sort of like ritual thing? 

Christine: A cabal, yeah. 

Em: I think they opened a portal with that fucking song and– 

Christine: Oh, fuck! 

Em: –they need to close it. Come back and do it again. 

Christine: Close the portal. 

Em: And– 

Christine: Throw in all the cockroaches, then close the portal. 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] Oy. [sighs] Well, as for, um, ghosts for you, I have– I always say a short one. I always– I– Truly, the– Notes-wise, it is incredibly short. We just find a way– 

Christine: The more you say that, the more I settle in to, um, be entertained– 

Em: [chuckles] To goblin mode? 

Christine: –for the rest of the afternoon. [chuckles] 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh, I am wearing my grumpy troll shirt. 

[Christine straightens her red sweatshirt to show the logo a grumpy troll face. In a circle around the troll, it reads: “Grumpy Troll Brew Pub.” 

Em: I just, uh– Oh, you know, I don’t know if I– 

Christine: It’s so cozy. 

Em: I did tell you this. It was– A while back, I finished my, um, sticker book. 

Christine: Oh, yes. And you got your– 

Em: And– 

Christine: Yes, you have the sticker from there. 

Em: I have a lot of– shockingly, a lot of stickers. We did a lot in that one little accidental road trip. 

Christine: That town had a lot going on. Where was this? Hold on. 

Em: We went to that cave. It was in– 

Christine: Wisconsin? 

Em: –Wisconsin. 

Christine: Yeah, the troll capital of the world. [chuckles] 

Em: Remember, remember when you tried to h– like be a homie and like let me stop at a cave on the way? 

Christine: [gasps] Yeah. 

Em: And then the cave was closed or something or that– we didn’t have the time. 

Christine: Uh, it was like, “Oh, a two hour– uh, it takes about an hour and ni– thirty minutes to get through from one end to the other,” and we were all like, “Uhh.” 

Em: “I s– I’m out.” 

Christine: But then we went to the gift shop. [chuckles] 

Em: And I bought stickers, and I was like, “If anyone asked, that was the best cave of my life.” 

Christine: We bought so much shit in the gift shop and that– We were like– had not even been in the cave. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, that was one of my favorite things. 

Em: I– Well, cau– I was just looking at my sticker book. Now that I have them all in a spot, I’ve actually looked at them so much– 

Christine: I– That’s– 

Em: –I think I’m gonna throw up. 

Christine: –so– Oh! [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: That’s– [laughs] That’s so inspiring because I’m always like so overwhelmed by my stickers, and I think if I put them in a book like maybe that’ll help, but then I wonder would I even do anything? But I feel like you’re right, that would be kind of more an invitation to take a look at them every now and then. 

Em: Well, I will say also I think what helps me is the proximity, the fact that I, I live in this space where like I can see the bookshelf at all times, and it’s just sitting on my bookshelf. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: I think if you had your sticker book like in a certain room, maybe you wouldn’t always look at it– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –but it’s– I’m literally always at that stupid bookshelf. So every now and then when I’m like putzing around, I pull it out, and I’m like, “Aw.” 

Christine: You just do a little flip. 

Em: Just a little flip like, “Oh, let’s, let’s see which one I would get today.” Um, but it’s weird because I spent years collecting all of these stickers to a point where I didn’t even know what stickers I owned ’cause I– 

Christine: I was gonna ask if there are any that you’re like unsure about where they’re from or anything like that. 

Em: Um, n-not anymore. 

Christine: Or do you only keep the ones that me-meant s– that you remembered? 

Em: I think I remembered all of them. I did a pretty good job of like all– I have two sticker books. I have one of like ones I just collect on my own, and then I have one that was specifically tour. 

Christine: Oh, cool. Okay. 

Em: Um, which for ha– maybe Yappy Hour, we can go through the– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –tour sticker book or something. 

Christine: That’s actually a really fun idea ’cause mine are probably scattered throughout the lands. 

Em: I would like to take it as an opportunity to encourage you to do a sticker book because I really– I did not expect to have so much fun doing a sticker book. Uh, s– 

Christine: I mean, it sounds really– 

Em: I’m telling you– 

Christine: –uh, fulfilling. 

Em: –your life will be changed. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Like I know it sounds– It– I was like, “Oh, I’ll do this for like a day,” and I ended up becoming a crazy person. And like I had– just had like Mariska playing for like eight hours, and I was just like col– finding wh– 

Christine: With your stickers. [laughs] 

Em: [chuckles] And all of a sudden, I’m like one of those people who are like, [in a high nasal voice] “My sticker book’s really important to me,” but– 

Christine: My sticker book. 

Em: –it was so fun to put together. 

Christine: Listen, we are all in need of some analog activities. I mean, Mariska aside, of course, that’s necessary as well, but like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –it’s nice to have something to do sometimes with your hands. I was just coloring with a– Leona, and I was like, “I don’t usually do–“ I don’t really like coloring usually, but we just got a pack of crayons, and they were like neon and glow-in-the-dark– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –which you’d appreciate. 

Em: Nice. 

Christine: And then we’d take them to her room and then like do an art show, and they were all glow-in-the-dark. It was fun. But so, at first I was like, “Eh, I don’t feel like coloring.” I was so in the zone coloring Peppa Pig that I was like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –“Is this what I’m missing? Like just more like–“ We sat there for like an hour, and this child does not do silence very well on– you know– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –sounds like someone else we know. Um, we sat there and just colored for like 45 minutes, and I was like, “This is crazy. I haven’t really had like such a– like a–“ 

Em: Jus– 

Christine: “–talk about nervous system like calming activity for a long time.” 

Em: You just locked the fuck in. Yeah. 

Christine: So I feel like a sticker book thing is similar where you’re just like kind of doing something mechanical and like creative. Yeah, I love that. 

Em: Well, it was, it was also fun ’cause you only have so many pages in the sticker book, and you like– You try to like put them– 

Christine: Oh, you can– Mm-hmm. 

Em: You have to collage them the right way. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: [groans] Gotta– 

Christine: Oh, and it’s so satisfying when they like perfectly like kind of fit. Oh gosh. 

Em: It was wonderful. I’m, I’m telling you– And I literally– For a bag of stickers I had for like four years, five years– How long did we tour? Five years? Um– 

Christine: [chuckles] Feels like 50, but I don’t know. 

Em: [laughs] Um, it was like– I look at them so much more than I ever looked at that stupid fucking bag of stickers. I never looked at– 

Christine: Right. If they’re in a bag, right, you’re not gonna like just like dump them out. Yeah. 

Em: No, it was a dream. Okay. Sorry, everybody. Everyone’s like, “Jesus, the ghosts!” Okay. 

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Em’s Story – The Berini Haunting 

Em: This is the Berini Hunting. Nope. Haunting. Berini Haunting. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Berini Haunting. 

Christine: You want to say it again or do you want– [laughs] 

Em: This is the Berini Haunting. 

Christine: Berini? Like a– It sounds like a pasta. 

Em: [in an Italian accent] Berini. Um– 

Christine: [in an Italian accent] Berini. 

Em: Yes. Uh, there– It was a name used to change– to protect the privacy of the family. So they went with [in an Italian accent] Berini. And– 

Christine: It’s the Barilla family. 

Em: [chuckles] And they also changed the location. So– Or– 

Christine: What? How do you do that? 

Em: So– 

Christine: I could do that. I’m gonna change my name and location. Now I’m gonna tell you the story of my life. What? 

Em: I feel like, um– 

Christine: Why am I mad? Why am I angry at these people? 

Em: [laughs] “Do you do this with all your locations?” Um– 

Christine: [laughs] “Have you heard about this guy, Kanye West? He’s married to Kim Kardashian.” 

Em: [laughs] “And he just– He’s incredible. Don’t look further than, uh, than after like 2008. Don’t look further.” 

Christine: Did you see that he posted in the New York– or in the Wall Street Journal like a full page ad– 

Em: I– You know what? 

Christine: –saying he’s sorry for all his anti-Semitic behavior. It’s like really insane. 

Em: I would like to instead rephrase that to “Can you believe what the Wall Street Journal allowed someone to put in the Wall Street Journal?” [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Okay, fair point. But then I was– My brother was like, “If he’s releasing an album, I’m–“ and then it turns out he is releasing an album. So– 

Em: Yeah, I– 

Christine: –I don’t know. It’s all just like– 

Em: I don’t believe that that man is– 

Christine: –nothing’s real anymore. Nothing’s real. 

Em: He will never be sorry because I don’t think he’s aware of what he’s sorry of. He just like– 

Christine: I think things are just– 

Em: It’s not there. 

Christine: –too far gone. Yeah. 

Em: Um, so basically, the, the re– the Psychical Research Foundation, uh, which nowadays is called the American Institute of Parapsychology, they were involved in this case at the very, very, very end and in their report changed the location and the name just so the family could have some closure and– 

Christine: Oh? Okay, okay. 

Em: –be away from the situation. 

Christine: Okay, that’s fair enough then. I see. Someone else is telling the story. 

Em: So, um, all we know is that it was in New England, so I guess they didn’t change the location. They’re just being like so vague about it. 

Christine: Mm. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, so it’s the Berini family in New England. Great. And the main character is, uh, Joe and Rose Berini, and then, uh, they also had, uh, Rose’s kids from a previous marriage, John and Daisy, who you do not hear much about. But Joe and Rose. So in 197– 1979, Joe moved the family into his dad’s childhood home. Um, and fun fact, many family members had died in this house. [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh, good. 

Em: I will s– I’m gonna start off by saying I’m– would love a whole report on how Joe is connected to his own family because, uh, he’s moving into his dad’s childhood home. The way that all of the sources I’d looked at seemed to– They made it sound like Joe has like n-never spoken to his father before this and like never lived in this house, but now he’s moving into his dad’s childhood home. And I don’t know if there’s like a– they were estranged– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –and now he’s just inherited this. I don’t– 

Christine: ’Cause it feels like a movie plot point. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Like, “Oh, I’ve never been to this haunted Airbnb in the countryside that my great aunt left me,” you know. 

Em: Exactly. Yes. Um, because at first I was like i-it also could just be like Joe’s dad is every other dad who just doesn’t really, um, stereotypically give you any information about much of his childhood. 

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: Because I feel like in a lot of this story, Joe is just calling around being like, “Does anyone know about this random family member? I’ve never heard about them.” Um– 

Christine: “Oh, yeah, they died in your house.” 

Em: Yeah. And that feels like– 

Christine: “Of course.” 

Em: –something I would have with all three of my fathers that I’ve had. 

Christine: Right. 

Em: I feel like all of them would vaguely, cryptically be like– 

Christine: 100%. 

Em: –“Oh, yeah, I’m actually a, a bird in the middle of the night.” Like something cra– They’d say something crazy. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] And also my mother would do the same thing, and then I’d be gaslit into oblivion and be like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –“Oh.” And, and– Yeah. 

Em: I could see To– I could see Tom being like, “Yeah, I’m one of 25. What? You didn’t know that?” 

Christine: “You didn’t know–“ 

Em: I’m like, “What do you mean?” 

Christine: A-and you know what they say next? “Well, you never asked.” 

Em: I– 

Christine: What the fuck kind of dumbass comment is that? 

Em: I found out– 

Christine: And by the way, we did ask. That’s the other thing. We always ask. 

Em: I found out yesterday, by my– on my own accord, that Tom has step-siblings. I didn’t fucking know that. 

Christine: What? [chuckles] You didn’t know this? 

Em: Never known that. My entire life. 

Christine: What did you– Well, did you talk to him about it? Was he like, “Duh”? 

Em: I have not spoken to him yet, but now we have a conversation to have. Like– 

Christine: Does he know about his step-siblings? 

Em: Now, that would be very silly if– But no, he has to know. 

Christine: Can you imagine our listeners know before he does? 

Em: He– They do. I– Oh, that’d be crazy. Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: [laughs] I was like, “They do?” 

Em: They know that I’m gonna talk to him about it, though. But at least now we’ve got ourselves a little– a, a topic starter. Love that. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Anyway, so I feel like that’s what’s going on here. It could range from being everyone’s normal dad who just doesn’t talk about his childhood or him and his father have never met. I don’t know. 

Christine: Right. It’s just a little bit mysterious. 

Em: Yes. So he moves into this– 

Christine: To him. 

Em: He moves this– into this house, and immediately, there’s spooky stuff going on, and Rose seems to be the person that is getting the most activity in the house. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: So pretty immediately, um, Rose starts hearing a little girl’s voice. 

Christine: Oh god. 

Em: Yuck. And the very first time that she hears this voice, it says, “Mama, mama.” Eugh. 

Christine: Eugh! Mm-mmm. 

Em: And that’s not my baby. [chuckles] 

Christine: Mm-mmm, that’s not my baby. [chuckles] 

Em: That’s not my baby. And you, you hope it’s a situation like a, like a time glitch and that you’re actually witnessing your own– That’s like– 

Christine: That’s what I tell myself. Remember I heard that “Daddy!”– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –in that middle room? And I– To this day, I’m like, “Please be Leona.” 

Em: Have you heard it yet? Because I’m waiting for the day you let us know that it’s– 

Christine: No, and you know– 

Em: –you’ve gone full circle. 

Christine: –that I, I am appreciative that you’re reminding me of this because I have been working on that room to turn it into like a playroom, kind of extra space, guest room type area, and I feel like once that’s kind of cleared out, we’ll spend more time in there. So I wonder if that’ll happen. 

Em: You know what I really hope? Really honestly truly is that the day it happens– ’Cause I don’t imagine a world where this doesn’t happen. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: That you hear the “daddy” and you– I need you to be standing near– 

Christine: I remember exactly where I was sitting. 

Em: I need you to be there because I would like it to be a full circle where now you see past you experiencing it– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and then we know– 

Christine: Yeah, but– 

Em: What? 

Christine: Gio was also next to me, and I feel like I would see a double– he– And I remember him– he– him hearing it, like he heard it in the moment, so we both heard it. So I wonder if he’ll be there too, you know, like a little replay. 

Em: Telling you, I really– I– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: It would really put my mind at ease that glitches in the Matrix do exist, that you’re s– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Because you don’t remember seeing yourself in that, so you wouldn’t notice you seeing yourself in the future. 

Christine: Right. True, yeah. Whoa. 

Em: Whoa. Okay. 

Christine: Whoa! I’d be sitting on my own lap all of a sudden. 

Em: [chuckles] You just go, “Hi, this is real. Don’t forget this.” 

Christine: “Who’s sitting on me?” [chuckles] Yeah. “Remember this?” 

Em: [laughs] “You’ll hate it.” Um– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: So okay. Says “Mama.” You gotta hope that it’s in the future. Unfortunately, the voice keeps saying “Mama,” and eventually says, “Mama, this is Serena.” 

Christine: Bye. Okay, bye. 

Em: And nobody knew a Serena. They were– 

Christine: Bye. 

Em: –like– 

Christine: Bad. 

Em: –“What the fuck is that?” 

Christine: And that’s such a specific name. It’s not like, “I’m Sally,” you know, like– 

Em: Right. [chuckles] 

Christine: For some reason, that creeps me out more ’cause it’s such a kind of unique name. 

Em: Yeah. It’s not like, “Oh, my name is Mary.” 

Christine: “Billy Bob.” Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] Um, so nobody knew a Serena, but they’d soon learn– because she kept hearing the voice, and they picked up very quickly that when Serena was around, all of a sudden, eminent doom would follow. 

Christine: Eminent doom? Jesus. Okay. 

Em: And we don’t know if Serena is warning them or is causing it– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –but I think the vibe people were experiencing was that she was trying to warn them. 

Christine: It’s like Mothman. 

Em: Especially by saying like, “Mama,” and being this little girl, it’s almost like she’s trying to help you or she wants to– 

Christine: She’s like, “Pay attention.” 

Em: “Pay attention to me,” yeah. Um– 

Christine: Ugh. 

Em: –the f– very first time that she heard Serena’s voice, um, that same weekend, uh, one of the kids had to go get their tonsils taken out, and there was complications during the surgery. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: And, uh, the daughter, Rose’s daughter, almost died from heart failure. 

Christine: Holy shit, dude. 

Em: Which like you think something as like common place as getting your tonsils out– 

Christine: Routine. 

Em: –it’s like, “Oh, you can’t die from that.” 

Christine: What year was this? 

Em: ’79. 

Christine: I wonder– the– also anesthesia, perhaps– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –like a bad reaction. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I mean, I don’t know, but Jesus, that’s terrifying. 

Em: Well, the next time Rose heard Serena’s voice was e– months later, and that night, Joe’s grandmother had a stroke. 

Christine: Oh, shit, dude. 

Em: The time after that, Rose heard Serena’s voice, and Joe’s grandmother, I think the same one that had a stroke, then passed away. 

Christine: Okay, that’s– It’s sort of like, “Thanks for warning me, but it’s like, what are you– what am I supposed to do about it?” 

Em: Yeah, it’s almost like, “Do I even want you to come? Like then–“ 

Christine: Right. I’d rather just kind of not have the dread of like now I know someone’s gonna die. Yeah. 

Em: Now you gotta cancel plans and say goodbye to everybody I know. I’ve got to call everybody. [sighs] Um– 

Christine: I’ve got to say sorry for something that I did to everybody in case they die and haunt me. 

Em: Yeah. Every time I hear Serena’s voice, I’d go, “What do I have to atone for really quick?” 

Christine: “Now what?” Yeah. [chuckles] “What did I do this time?” 

Em: So up until that point, only Rose had heard Serena’s voice. But the next time Serena came through, it was late at night, and Joe heard Serena’s voice. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh. 

Em: And he had been sleeping, but her voice woke him up in the middle of the night, and he turned over and saw Rose seemingly struggling next to him– 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: –like she couldn’t breathe. 

Christine: No… 

Em: And so he woke her up really quickly and was like, “What’s going on? Are you okay?” She was having a nightmare about someone trying to strangle her. 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: And now it feels like– 

Christine: Sleep paralysis style. 

Em: Yeah. Either sleep paralysis– I would wonder like does this mean that the ghost can also tap into your dreams? Because– 

Christine: I always think sleep paralysis is on the verge of some sort of– Like I know it’s like scientifically whate– proven whatever, but I still do think there’s an element of like something dark can take over– 

Em: I agree. 

Christine: –or, or enter your space in that, in that like state of hypnagogic state or whatever you call it. 

Em: I love when you say hypnagogic. Let’s start there. 

Christine: [laughs] I love when I say it too. [laughs] 

Em: I also really wish you liked horror movies just to be able to watch Insidious because it’s so on the nose of everything we think– 

Christine: I did watch it with you. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Didn’t we? 

Em: That was– 

Christine: Oh, no, that was Sinister. 

Em: You didn’t watch that either, babe. 

Christine: [laughs] I watched you watch it. 

Em: [ch Yeah, you watched your eyelids. 

Christine: [laughs] I watched my eyelids. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: You guys, I took a Klonopin to watch that movie and fell asleep. Oh, and like two melatonin. 

Em: She, she took it on purpose. She– Yeah. Oh, and two melatonin, right. 

Christine: And then it was like 6 o’clock at night, and you and my brother– My brother’s like, “You left me alone to watch this movie with Em.” I fell asleep right between you. 

Em: I really– 

Christine: It was great. I had a good time. I mean, I’m trying to get more into horror movies. What is the one you said? 

Em: Insidious. 

Christine: That feels like it’s not for me. 

Em: Does it feel insidious? 

Christine: It feels a little more insidious than I’d like to admit, yeah. 

Em: But the story is wonderful. And not like– not in a like, “Oh, lovely.” It’s like– Like it’s what we’re always talking about. 

Christine: Really? Okay. 

Em: It’s like a little kid who like can’t wake up. 

Christine: [laughs] Oh. Well, that does sound lovely. Thanks. [laughs] 

Em: And– But like– Because like ghosts. Like he was like– It’s like the– Like he left his astral body. He’s trying to come back. 

Christine: [gasps] My worst fear ever? Great. 

Em: Anyway, it’s a good time, and it’s part of the whole like Con– the, the C– 

Christine: Oh, ’cause it gets taken over. I remember hearing about this. Yeah. 

Em: –the CCU, the Conjuring cinematic universe. Um– 

Christine: Oy vey. 

Em: Uh, okay. So anyway, she wakes up, and I’m c– I, I don’t know why Serena had to warn Joe to wake her up unless something– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –actually violent was happening in her sleep, which– 

Christine: R-right. 

Em: –adds to my theory that something was messing with her. 

Christine: That it’s something more than just sleep paralysis. 

Em: Well, at this point, Joe is like, “Who the fuck is Serena? I’m over this.” 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So he goes asking around his family, “Does anyone know Serena? Anyone know Serena?” And they went, “Bitch, Serena died in this house when she was five years old.” 

Christine: [gasps] Oh no. 

Em: I hope they said it just like that. [chuckles] 

Christine: “Bitch!” [chuckles] 

Em: I hope they went up to Joe and then went, “Girl, figure it out.” Um– 

Christine: “Come on. Spill the tea.” 

Em: But– 

Christine: “I’m spilling the tea right now.” 

Em: So Serena was apparently his dad’s sister. Didn’t– He didn’t know hi-his dad has a sister. 

Christine: See? This is what they do, these people. They just don’t tell you a damn thing, and then you have to live with the consequences. 

Em: That, and it feels so much like anything any of my dads would say. Like, “Oh, yeah, I had a sister. She died at five. Anyway, what’s for dinner?” 

Christine: It’s like generational trauma that they just are like, “Well, we’ll just ignore that,” you know. 

Em: So Serena is real, apparently. 

Christine: God. 

Em: And it does make you wonder why she was calling them, “Mama,” but maybe she’s also kind of stuck in a blueprint situation. Or maybe she– 

Christine: Yeah. And if she’s five– 

Em: Or she might not know that she is a ghost, and she just saw a grown woman in the house and– I don’t know. 

Christine: [sighs] Is confused, yeah. Who knows? 

Em: Maybe Rose looks like what– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –Joe’s grandma used to look like. I don’t know. Um, so eventually– And that would make sense too, why Serena was trying to warn them about like Joe’s grandmother dying because that was her mom– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –being like, “My mom’s about to die.” 

Christine: Oh, shit. 

Em: Which in some ways is very precious that like even if you like lose a child, they’re still with you and like trying to warn people. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: It’s like– 

Christine: Well, maybe when she’s saying, “Mama,” she’s trying to talk to her mom who’s still alive. I don’t know. 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: I mean, if not j– I guess not if she’s– 

Em: “Mama, it’s Serena.” Oh… 

Christine: Mm… 

Em: She was trying to talk to her mom. 

Christine: That’s horrible. 

Em: Wow, it just got really so much sadder than it was. Um– 

Christine: You’re welcome. [chuckles] 

Em: Thanks, Christine. 

Christine: [laughs] Wow. Now I feel like shit. 

Em: So– 

Christine: Hey, remember what I said about hope earlier? How did I do that again? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Can you remind me? 

Em: No, I was barely holding on as you were, uh, o– uh, back, back in the day. Um– 

Christine: You were like, “Give it an hour, and Christine will be completely turning this around.” 

Em: [sighs] Well, eventually Serena seems to leave, and they don’t hear her voice ever again. It’s almost like once they discovered who she was, maybe? Um– 

Christine: [gasps] Wait. Maybe when her mom passed. Maybe she was attached to her mom. 

Em: Oh, yeah. And she was like, “I have no reason to be here anymore.” [sighs] Goddamn it, Christine. 

Christine: [laughs] Listen, I have a four-year-old. I think about dark, sad, intrusive thoughts and try to not let them take over my mind. So you know, I’m, I’m primed for this. 

Em: I, uh, have been singing a lot of songs to Hank, and they pretty much all end with like, [singing] ♪ And in about a decade, I’ll be absolutely devastated ♪♪ [chuckles] 

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. [singing] ♪ How will I cope? ♪♪ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Um, so eventually, Serena seems to leave. Nobody hears her voice anymore, and the hauntings seem over, and for like a year and a half. Um, I don’t know. One source said six months, and I was like, “That’s not the same thing.” But– 

Christine: No. 

Em: –a lot of time passes, and eventually, it’s 1981, which is about 18 months later. And, um, after thinking kind of like their creepy days were behind them, one night, Rose sees a little boy. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: She had to be like, “This again? Oh my god.” 

Christine: “Again?” 

Em: Um, he is in all-white– 

Christine: Oy. 

Em: –and straight out of a horror movie. He just walks through the hallway, just like– You, you don’t see him. Then he’s walking through the hallway, then he like walks past the door where you can’t see him anymore. Ah! 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: Ah! 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: Apparently, he was translucent in a way where Rose said he looked like, um, a, a glass milk bottle. 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: Um, and he just– Apparently, it’s– I– It’s worse because not only did he just walk through and now you’re like, “Where the f– What happened? What was that?”, but by the time you’ve processed it, it’s gone. 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: Homeboy was walking through the hall multiple times for two hours. 

Christine: What? 

Em: Just like– 

Christine: But like why? 

Em: Like at, at some point, I’d be like, “Is that a real fucking kid? Is he lost in my house?” Like I’d be like, “What? Who is this?” 

Christine: “Is this a weird optical illusion or a prank? Like what’s going on?” 

Em: And I’d be like, “I– I’m seeing this, right?” A-at some point, I’d just get a chair and some popcorn and be like, “What the fuck is happening here?” I’d get a camera. Let’s start there. I’d get a fucking camera. 

Christine: Nowadays, yeah. But I would also wonder like– [sighs] It’s so weird. It’s, it’s– 

Em: At some point– After two hours? 

Christine: I feel like I would be like, “What, what’s– Why now? What’s happen–“ I would be scared. I’d be like, “Who’s gonna die this time?” Like, “Who’s–“ 

Em: Great point. 

Christine: Like, “What are you doing here for two hours? Like, and it’s your first time here?” I don’t know. Something feels like it’s shifting. 

Em: I– Well, I saw one– Um, one of the articles I read was like, “it was almost like when Serena left, she left an available space for someone new.” 

Christine: A vacancy. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: [fake screams] Ahh! Insidious. 

Em: [chuckles] And so, uh, it’s– I just can’t imag– A-after, after two hours, I think I’d get kinda bold, and I’d be like, “Are you okay?” 

Christine: I thought you were gonna say “bored,” I was like, “Me too. I’m glad you said it. I’d be bored too.” Okay, never mind, just bold. 

Em: After, after enough times, I, I would be kind of brave enough to go, “Are you, are you here–” Like, I’d be– I don’t, I don’t know what I would ask, but then I, then I figure that– 

Christine: I would go like he’s– 

Em: –he would recognize me or– 

Christine: [clears throat loudly, glancing around] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You know, see if he like looks over like, “Oh! Didn’t see you there.” 

Em: Just like cough a little too loud, yeah. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: So anyway, he apparently is just pacing the hallway. He leaves. He walks through the hallway. He leaves. He– And– 

Christine: So weird. 

Em: –somehow Rose is describing this as a peaceful experience. She said that this is fine. She’s like, “Oh, this is actually kind of peaceful.” 

Christine: It’s probably better than getting choked in your sleep, so. 

Em: Sure. Although, part of me is in like, “Is this who was choking me in my sleep?” 

Christine: [chuckles] Okay, fair point. Yeah. 

Em: Ah! 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: Um, so two weeks later, Rose has heard– has told Joe about this, I hope, but Joe then, uh, is like, “Okay. Well, hopefully that doesn’t happen any-anymore.” Famous last words. Because then that night– 

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah, don’t worry. It’s all over. 

Em: –Joe sees the little boy too. 

Christine: Ah ha-ha-ha. 

Em: And he sees the little boy literally going from room to room and in the hallway stopping to like kneel down on the floor– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: –as if he’s like searching for something. 

Christine: [gasps] Oh, oh, oh, oh. Ew! 

Em: [dramatically] His body. Um– 

Christine: Brrr. 

Em: I think it would be so weird. Like, it’s one thing to see a ghost into a room. Already, I’m talking about it for the rest of my life. But to see a ghost go into a room and then come out unsatisfied and go into the next one? I’d be like, “Whoa! Don’t come into mine.” 

Christine: I’d be like, “Okay, that’s actually enough of that,” you know? 

Em: A-also, at some point– 

Christine: “You’ve done your tricks. Now stop it.” 

Em: At some point, does– like does that mean I’m watching you from a room that he has yet to get in– go into? Is he about to come in here? 

Christine: Right, is he just approaching? Oh no. 

Em: Oy-yoy-yoy. And the kneeling down, and he was like apparently like touching or like petting the floor, trying to find something. 

Christine: Oof. 

Em: Rose, um, also saw him again, and this time, uh, the boy talked to her– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –the second time that they ran into each other [chuckles] in the hall, I, I guess. Uh– 

Christine: He’s like, “Excuse me. Uh, excuse me. Sorry. Ooh, go to the left.” 

Em: [laughs] “Scoot right past you.” 

Christine: “Oh. Uh, oops.” 

Em: And the boy goes up to her, by the way, having not said anything yet. First– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –fucking words out of his mouth, “Where do all the lonely people go? Where do I belong?” 

Christine: What? “Eleanor Rigby”? Is that a lyric from “Eleanor Rigby”? 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: [laughs] It literally sounds like it. 

Em: That– [singing “Eleanor Rigby” by The Beatles] ♪ Ah, look at all the lonely people ♪♪ 

Christine: Okay, maybe that– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Yeah, maybe that’s why. Because I was at first like, “Wow, that’s really strange.” 

Em: [chuckles] You really– For a second, I went, “Oh my god, am I being scammed? Is this just the– Did The Beatles write a ghost story?” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um– 

Christine: This is just like some weird pop culture fanfiction about The Beatles. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Um, wow. But okay, so the “Eleanor Rigby” of it all aside, that’s really fucked up and dark. Okay. A lonely little boy. 

Em: Yeah. And “where do I belong?” Like so he’s lost? And then part of me is like, “Why are you looking at the floor for your– for help there?” But, um– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –and this might be an answer as to what he was doing on the floor. Uh, Joe remembered that he was looking around, and now that this boy has shown up multiple times in the house, he’s like, “What was he looking for? I’m gonna go over to that spot on the floor and–“ 

Christine: Correct answer, correct answer. 

Em: “–kind of mess around.” He pulls up the rug– 

Christine: Carpet. Yep. 

Em: –which the little boy couldn’t– seemed, seemed like he could not do on his own. 

Christine: Picture this: ‘80s rug, shag carpeting. 

Em: [chuckles] Tufted, yeah. 

Christine: Beautiful. 

Em: Um, and he finds a– like a medallion– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –of the Virgin Mary– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –which– 

Christine: Spooky. 

Em: –ma-makes me think if he was looking for something religious and he’s like, “Where do I belong?”, maybe he thought, “I need to get this thing.” 

Christine: Well, and he was kneeling. That’s what I– When you first said he was kneeling in the hallway, I’m like, “To pray?” I mean, I guess not, but like it sounds very ritualistic. 

Em: And he was in all white. 

Christine: Yeah. The white thing. Yeah. 

Em: So Joe goes back to the family. I-imagine in, in 2026, it would be a group chat being like, “Can you guys just give me a rundown of every person that I don’t know about yet? Because I’m so tired of this. First, it was Serena.” 

Christine: “Actually, can you just do a voice memo so I can just have it all in one file?” 

Em: “Just send me the Ancestry link. You know what I’m saying?” 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The link. 

Em: Um, but so he asked the family, “What about this little boy? Like who else died here?”, finds out, “Oh, yeah. You know how your brother– or how your dad had a sister named Serena? Um, he also had a brother, who also died as a kid.” 

Christine: “Uh, and like no, I didn’t know about any of that. Thanks though.” 

Em: [laughs] Which is like I have to hope that him and his father were just like estranged because otherwise what the fuck did you ever talk about with your dad? But– 

Christine: I mean, as someone who has a dad with siblings, I, I literally don’t know anything about, it’s sort of like– I just– It never comes up– 

Em: It’s, it’s shocking the things– 

Christine: –unless you ask. It’s weird. 

Em: Yeah. And then he’s like, “Well, you don’t ask,” and I’m like, “I don’t even know that I’m supposed to ask.” 

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. 

Em: “Should I just start from the bottom and say, ‘Do you have any dead siblings?’ Like, what am I supposed to say here?” Um– 

Christine: I mean, I guess maybe. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Maybe that’s the key. 

Em: I– and I, I can’t stand that, “Well, you didn’t ask.” It’s like, “Well, I didn’t–“ 

Christine: That's infuriating to me. 

Em: “–didn’t know.” Um, so Joe finds out that he has an uncle, Giorgio– 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: –who died in the house at eight years old, buried in his first communion suit. 

Christine: I knew it. I was like, “That’s a baptismal or first communion.” Holy shit. 

Em: And so he– 

Christine: And then he got that medallion for his first communion, no doubt. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: And of course, now he’s wondering, “Where do I belong?” And he’s like, “I–“ 

Christine: Oh, honey. 

Em: He’s probably trying to get to heaven. 

Christine: Oh boy. 

Em: Um, so anyway, after figuring out who he was, the couple started seeing Giorgio all the time. 

Christine: Oh dear. 

Em: Like multiple times a week. 

Christine: Oh dear. 

Em: It was almost like they spoke him into existence officially or like once– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –once Giorgio knew that they knew who he was, he felt safer to come around. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: They apparently would literally talk to him. He would answer random questions for them. He would talk about family members Joe didn’t even know or he would talk about events that Joe didn’t remember. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: He would even, um– Giorgio, I guess, had a twin that did survive, and he would talk about his twin, like what his twin was up to. 

Christine: Jeez, what the fuck? 

Em: And whenever– I will say– This is a weird note, but whenever they would see him, it seemed to them that Giorgio always seemed incredibly fucking stressed. By the way, I would too if I was an eight-year-old who can’t get into heaven. You know what I’m saying? 

Christine: Yeah, that sounds like one of those weird dreams you have as a kid where you’re like stuck– or even nowadays, like where– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –you’re stuck somewhere, and you’re like, “I can’t, I can’t get out.” Like that, it feels like a nightmare replaying over and over. 

Em: I– 

Christine: Of course you’re stressed. 

Em: I’d be stressed the fuck out. I’d be like, “Where is everybody? Here’s my random 40-year-old nephew. And I–“ 

Christine: Can you imagine? You don’t even get to wear your khakis. You have to wear your fucking communion thing. 

Em: I also– Probably one of the biggest, um– I’m sure there’s a lot of ways that the story so far has proven to like just be like a wives’ tale and isn’t true or something like that, but the most unbelievable part to me is that people who were alive who knew Giorgio aren’t immediately running to the door to finally see their like long lost dead relative. 

Christine: Right. It makes me wonder if they– Yeah. Yeah, that’s weird. 

Em: If I knew like– If I– If– There are family members of mine who have died, and if I found out that they have resurrected and are someone– I, I can speak to them again, I would be at the house that day. 

Christine: Yeah. But I’ll be honest, I know people who like have– who if they– if their dead sibling resurrected at eight– like an eight-year-old ghost and they were like living across the country, they would want nothing to do with that. 

Em: That’s a good point. Or maybe– 

Christine: Like I know– I definitely know people, especially the kind who don’t talk about their siblings, who [chuckles] probably– 

Em: That’s a good point. 

Christine: –would not go see their ghost ’cause they don’t even want to think about it. 

Em: Or s– Uh, like I mean, Serena and Giorgio sound like maybe they’re not from the country, so maybe it’s hard to get here or something? Like maybe it sounds like, like– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –like sounds like Italian– 

Christine: They’re Italian. 

Em: [in an Italian accent] –Ita-taliano or something. 

Christine: [in an Italian accent] Barilla. 

Em: [in an Italian accent] Serena, Giorgio. 

Christine: What’s the last name again? Barilla? Birna? 

Em: [in an Italian accent] Berini. 

Christine: Berini. 

Em: Which like– 

Christine: [in an Italian accent] Berini. 

Em: –is a, is a fake name, but it makes sense why they’d pick an Italian one if the names are– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: You know? 

Christine: Giorgio, yeah. 

Em: I’m just saying if someone said, “Yo, even that one cousin that you fucking hate just came back to life,” I’d be like, “I gotta go see this myself.” like that’s crazy. 

Christine: I don’t think I could do it. I don’t think I could– I don’t know. That really freaks me out for some reason. 

Em: Really? 

Christine: I don’t think I would go. I think I would be more concerned about the people in the house. I’d be like, “Are you trying to trap me and like kill me?” I don’t know. I think I would be like– 

Em: Crazy. Not me. 

Christine: –really, really like hesitant. 

Em: No, I would have to see it with my own eyes. I’d be like, “This is literally evidence that a– the afterlife exists. It’s crazy.” 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: It’s crazy. You wouldn’t get– Write in the comments if you would go ’cause I feel– 

Christine: I mean– 

Em: This is such a– To me, it’s such an obvious absolute. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: It’s an absolutely yes. It’s an absolute no to you? 

Christine: No, it’s not an absolute no. I think I would go eventually, but you would have to probably talk me into it because I think I’d be like, “I don’t know if I trust this brother-in-law,” or whoever the hell this guy is to me in this scenario. I don’t know. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: I’d be like a little weirded out. I’d be like– 

Em: I mean, I’d bring a knife, you know? 

Christine: I’d be like, “Okay, he’s saying he’s my dead brother. That feels like disrespect–“ [laughs] You’d bring a knife? Okay. Well, in that case, I feel safe. [laughs] 

Em: I guess– Yeah, it depends, it depends on how close you are with the people. Like if I found out– 

Christine: That's kind of it. I think that’s it. 

Em: If a long lost relative– I see what you’re saying. Like if a long-lost relative I don’t even really have a relationship with said this to me, I’m not going to your fucking house. 

Christine: Was like, “Come over. Your dead brother’s here,” I’d be like, “What the fuck?” 

Em: Yeah. In that case, I’m not going over to your house to find out that you have like a mental health situation going on. Um– 

Christine: Right. I don’t really want to be part of that. Mhm. 

Em: But like if my cousins I talk to regularly are like– 

Christine: Yeah, okay. That’s fair. 

Em: –“Oh my god, this person’s alive,” I’d be like, “I’m–“ 

Christine: If I felt trustworthy– 

Em: “–getting on a plane.” 

Christine: –this was a thing, I would absolutely– Yes. Absolutely. 

Em: Think of the experiments you could do. You could be like, “Tell them to come over here. And like, can they teleport?” And like, I mean, I would have– I would have just as many questions for them. 

Christine: And they’d be like, “Why are you holding a knife? Can you a-answer that first?” 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. The eight-year-old at knife point is really like– 

Christine: He’s like, “No, I’m not gonna go over there, you freak.” [laughs] 

Em: And they have the nerve to go, “Giorgio always looks a little stressed.” It’s like– [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, you’re just showing up with a knife doing experiments on him? Like, no wonder. [laughs] 

Em: Honestly, if I was living in a house with an eight-year-old ghost and I didn’t know he was apparently my uncle, I’d also have– I’d have a knife there too.It– I– 

Christine: I guess so. 

Em: I guess like what– what’s that gonna do to a ghost, but. So, uh, anyway, Giorgio’s walking around. They’re chatting it up. Um, but he always seems stressed. And one, um, article did say it was like it was as if he, like Serena, could sense something dark or was attached to something dark. And even though he was fine and harmless, he knew about something that we couldn’t foresee. 

Christine: I think, I think that’s part of what freaks me out too. Like not that I wouldn’t go see this person, but I f– this ghost, but I feel like there’s something sinister beneath it that’s like, “Why is he stressed? Why is he hanging around? You already had this Serena like sleep paralysis creepiness.” I– Like part of me is like, “Is that really my twin brother or is this like–“ 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “–like a– something darker?” I don’t know. It’s a, it’s a l– I don’t know. I feel like it’s unsettling. 

Em: You know what? To go back to our previous conversation, talk about family members who would want to see this person back to life – his fucking twin who’s alive. 

Christine: Right? That’s what I meant. Like if this were my twin– 

Em: Why didn’t anyone call Carlos? 

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. Like if Carlos– I’d be like a little unsettled though, if like, “Oh, and we also had all this demonic a-activity,” I’d be like– even if I believe you, I’d be like, “I don’t know if I want to–“ 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: “–see my eight-year-old brother as like a demonic ghost.” I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah. Maybe Carlos like sends a picture of him like waving. He’s like, “Send– Give this to him.” [chuckles] 

Christine: He’s like, “Let’s FaceTime.” [chuckles] Yeah. That’s about as far as I’ll come. 

Em: Well, after two months, um, Giorgio finally stops appearing. And his l– final words to them, by the way, was, “My oldest brother is the only one that can help me.” 

Christine: Wow. Oh my god. What is his oldest brother? Do we know? Like a priest or something? 

Em: I have no idea. And also, if that was the solution this whole time, why were you ever here to begin with? But– 

Christine: Maybe you didn’t know. 

Em: Well, so I think what’s happening is it seems that the kids are confused about their relationship to these people. Because like how Serena– 

Christine: Aww… 

Em: –was maybe calling Rose her mom– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –maybe Giorgio thought that Joe was his father and not the father’s son or, or his brother– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –his brother when it was his uncle. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: So he was saying maybe like, ”My, my oldest brother is the only one that could help me,” being like, “You’re my oldest brother. You’re the only one that can save us.” 

Christine: Ohh, talking about Joe. 

Em: I think. I don’t know. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: I have no idea. Um, but it’s– it was certainly cryptic and fucking crazy. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: And after– 

Christine: And then he disappeared? 

Em: And then he disappeared. Which I feel like we could have said one more sentence before we left and like clarified some things, you know. 

Christine: I just– This guy– This kid knows how to– 

Em: Like help you from what? 

Christine: This kid knows how to do a cliffhanger moment. 

Em: He did. He said, “I’ll be back for the sequel.” Um– 

Christine: Yeah. “Or, or will I?” 

Em: [gasps] Fade to black. The– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –the same night Giorgio disappeared for good, his absence seemed to also leave room for a new entity. 

Christine: I’m telling you. I don’t know what you fill that with, but you got to fill that. Put, put, put your thumb over the hole. 

Em: I was gonna say just like put some like, like caulk or putty on it. 

Christine: Tape, yeah. 

Em: Like wall putty, yeah. Um– 

Christine: You staple it closed. That’s what I would do. 

Em: Concrete it in. Yeah. 

Christine: Some caulk. 

Em: Caulk. Um– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: The same– So he disappeared, and all of a sudden, something else appeared– 

Christine: God– 

Em: –literally within the same 24 hours. 

Christine: –dammit. 

Em: Um, and immediately, they really missed that little boy because Joe and Rose’s phone flew off the nightstand on its own multiple times. 

Christine: Uh-oh. And this is not a cell phone. This is a landline, just to, to remind everyone. 

Em: Like when it hit the wall, it probably went, “Brrring! Brrrring!” 

Christine: Oh, and like– And then you hear, “Eeeeeh…”– 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: –cause it fell off the hook. How creepy is that? 

Em: Horrific. 

Christine: So much more cinematic than an iPhone going flying. [laughs] 

Em: I feel like our hauntings would be so boring today. Like it– 

Christine: [chuckles] I know, boo! It’s like, “That’s just AI.” Oh man. 

Em: And also like another question for ghosts, because we didn’t have the technology we did back in the old day when they seemed to be super duper prevalent, so like we wouldn’t have known back then what other capabilities they have. They were just working– 

Christine: True. 

Em: –with the stuff going on back then. I wonder if there’s new versions of haunting today because there’s new technology– 

Christine: Well, there– 

Em: –that we can see them interacting with. 

Christine: There are because Jim Harold covers like technological ghosts sometimes where– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –they’ll like come in on a phone call or they’ll like, um– a text– Oh, the creepiest ones are when text messages come through like from the deceased person, but it’s like– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –the number’s like dis– just stuff like that really does happen kind of regularly. Regularly enough to be like, “Whoa.” 

Em: I mean, another example is like your iPod playing random music you didn’t start up. 

Christine: Yes. Ew, that was creepy. First of all, it’s an iPad. It wasn’t the year 2005– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –with my iPod. “The iPod shuffle Christine brings on tour started–“ [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Um, or like I wonder– 

Christine: I was thinking about that yesterday for some reason, that iPad playing. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: And I was like, “I wish I could remember what song that was.” 

Em: I’m, I’m happy to not know. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. 

Em: Even like Wi-Fi or like streaming services, I’m like, “Could it do all that?” Like, like I have one friend– 

Christine: We do blame tech issues on a ghost a lot, so I feel like we’ve already kind of committed to that theory. 

Em: I have one friend who, um, closed captioning changed on her TV and– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –like was able to go back, and it played like the normal fucking words, but only one time it’s like– was almost like responding to her, like an Ovilus. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Isn’t that the scariest thing you’ve ever seen in your life? 

Christine: Ew! What the fuck? 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Hey, I hate that. 

Em: So I– I guess there are new ways that they can do things that they could always probably do, they just didn’t know it themselves ’cause they– we didn’t have the technology yet. 

Christine: Maybe they did, and they’re like, “Hurry up and invent the cell phone.” 

Em: [laughs] “I’m so tired of having to type every letter out.” 

Christine: “Get on Skype.” [laughs] 

Em: Um, but yeah, also how come on my laptop I haven’t gotten messages on– Well, people have gotten messages on their like– like on a blank document. 

Christine: I was gonna say, it happens. 

Em: Eugh. So– And remember that one time we– Wasn’t there an episode we recorded where the whole thing got deleted temporarily or something? 

Christine: Yeah, there’s some weird tech shit that happens that we used to be like, “Haha, it’s a ghost.” [chuckles] 

Em: And it’s when we were talking about one of the dolls. 

Christine: Oh, 100%. 

Em: It– 

Christine: That was PTD, I think. 

Em: And there was I think there was another episode we recorded where we were also talking about her and like the things that she’s capable of, and our episode was fine, but only like that section was totally like silenced or something. 

Christine: Oh, there was some weird– 

Em: Wasn’t there an audio issue? 

Christine: There was like gl– There was like, um, static or something happening. I remember people were like, “Did you do that on purpose?” And we’re like, [laughs] “No.” 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: Um, also, just like side note, y– two nights ago– Ooh, I have chills now. I’m like cold all of a sudden. Uh, I heard this shattering sound in the middle of the night. Remember how like my bathroom up here was flooding? So the same area, I heard this shattering sound. I thought that I saw all three pets, and I went, “Uh-oh, that’s– Okay. Not a good sign.” Of course, I go upstairs with my flashlight on, and I’m looking. I’m looking. I can’t figure it out. The– Like I– There– Since like the ‘80s there’s been this like mirrored vanity thing, and the top of the mirror just like slammed onto the floor and shattered everywhere in the middle of the night. And– 

Em: What the fuck is going on in that bathroom? 

Christine: [scoffs] I don’t know, but it just occurred to me it’s the same bathroom. Um, and– 

Em: As someone who’s used that bathroom, I can confirm it is the scariest bathroom I’ve ever peed in. 

Christine: It’s pretty creepy. Yeah. 

Em: I would never want to be in that bathroom by myself. I have. 

Christine: Well, it has a nice to– a nice toilet now, a new one. 

Em: Maybe it was the toilet all along. Oh, I guess not since things are happening post new toilet. 

Christine: That’s right. And I was a little concerned. And then, uh, someone said, “Well, probably the humidity from the bathtub.” I’m like, “I’ve not turned that bathtub on in five years.” I mean, I– 

Em: It doesn’t it look plugged in, you know what I’m saying? 

Christine: No, it’s sort of like one of those decorative like clawed foot things. And I’m like, “I don’t know, man.” And of– My brother was like, “Well, you know, the adhesive wore off.” And I was like, “I’ve heard it all before.” That’s fine. It’s just weird that it’s been 30 years, and one night, it just shatters while I’m awake in the middle of the night with insomnia. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: Anyway, so now I’m just– All I’m saying is I’m getting creeped out by the story already ’cause I’m like ten feet from that spot, and I feel a little alone. 

Em: I wish it would happen as you’re recording so we could all witness something. Make it interesting. 

Christine: Well, maybe you can talk about PTD again and she’ll make something happen. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Well, uh, remember that time we held hands and looked PTD in the eye? 

Christine: Eugh! And she talked to us. 

Em: She said– I don’t remember what she said, but we did look her in the eye together. 

Christine: We were so polite. [laughs] 

Em: We were– I was like, “Hello.” 

Christine: “You are beautiful.” [laughs] 

Em: “Goodbye.” 

Christine: [echoing Em] “Goodbye.” 

Em: Um, so anyway, Joe puts the, uh, phone back on the table. Remember the phone flew off the nightstand? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And he puts it back on the table, flies off again. It flew off the table like a dozen times. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And he called his parents to see if they knew what Giorgio meant by like, “my oldest brother’s the only one who can help me,” and like– ’Cause he took it as a sign of like, “That’s the last thing I heard from Giorgio, and now the phone is flying off the hook, so like–“ 

Christine: Mhm. 

Em: “–use the phone, ask about Giorgio.” 

Christine: Check in. 

Em: But similar to our audio, whenever we talk about dolls, every time Joe would say Giorgio’s name, the phone would go dead by itself. 

Christine: Bye. I don’t like that. 

Em: Every time, uh– Or, sorry, eventually, it wasn’t just the phone being thrown around, but the door started slamming. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Dishes started breaking. Footsteps started being heard only running through the house. 

Christine: [sucks in a breath] 

Em: Um, and a box of pasta was ripped out of Rose’s hand. That’s the most insulting to me. 

Christine: [in an Italian accent] Barilla. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Told you. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Penne. [laughs] 

Em: Um, the couple– 

Christine: “Give me the secret recipe!” the ghost shouted. 

Em: [laughs] Or it was like, “Not this boxed swine.” 

Christine: Oh, yes. 

Em: “What’s wrong with you?” 

Christine: “This swill. Throw this in the trash.” 

Em: Swill, not swine. What’s wrong with me? That’s pigs. Um– 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] I didn’t even notice. 

Em: The couple went to a priest, who told them (of course, say it with me), “Just ignore it.” And– 

Christine: Are you serious? 

Em: –haven’t gotten to say this in a long time, but thanks, priests. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Miss her. 

Christine: Miss her. 

Em: And soon, other items started flying around, and they kept ignoring it ’cause the priest told them to. And they’re just sitting there, h– like hoping and hoping it’s gonna stop. Until eventually, things only got worse because now this entity shows himself to them. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And it is a dark male figure with a black cape, a hunched back, a gruff voice, and very large feet. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: They ask who he is. 

Christine: Sounds like the Hamburglar. 

Em: Holy shit. I think– 

Christine: It’s, it’s the big feet that got– 

Em: –this is the origin of McDonald’s. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] It all started with a small Italian pasta family. 

Em: [laughs] S– Quick, someone get Mayor McCheese on the horn. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um, where were we? You really fucking threw me. 

Christine: So sorry. He had big feet. A, a cape– 

Em: That’s– 

Christine: –by the way, not cool. 

Em: Are you kidding? Do you know how many times I’ve worn my cape this week? I fucking love a cape. 

Christine: Okay, I’m saying not cool as a gho– Like– 

Em: Oh, it’s very cool on me, don’t worry. 

Christine: –it’s cool to wear a cape. It’s also like fine to wear– Oh, it’s not fine to wear a top hat. Never mind. 

Em: No, especially with a cape unless you’re getting paid and doing magic. 

Christine: Correct. There is really strict rubric– 

Em: [chuckles] If I saw– 

Christine: –to allow that. [laughs] 

Em: –someone wear a top hat and they’re not either an Abe Lincoln impersonator or a magician– 

Christine: Corr– 

Em: –what are you doing? 

Christine: Exact– Or hat– or the Hat Man himself. 

Em: Or the Hat Man himself. Or like, I guess, if you’re really trying to like do one over on the opera, like you’re really– 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: –trying to commit to the theater [pronounced “thee-ate-er”]. 

Christine: We’ll think about it on that one. 

Em: I’m still uncomfortable about it because like people are gonna sit behind you in the audience, and they’re gonna hate you. 

Christine: Oh, I thought you meant on the stage. I see. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: You better have some fucking tact and take that hat off if you’re in the audience. 

Em: Please. It’s just for the entrance, the grand reveal. 

Christine: Exactly. Like we’ve already seen you in the lobby and talked about it. Sit down. 

Em: Now, if you saw me in a cape, you would really go feral because, um, this, this is a delicious cape. I have it right here. 

Christine: What? I was like, are you getting it right now? Oh my god. 

Em: I literally– I wear this cape all the time. I wear it– 

Christine: Did you– [laughs] Do you wear it– Are you wearing it to your date? Your friend date? 

Em: No, but I have worn it before with new people– [chuckles] 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –um, just to give them a real taste of who I am. 

Christine: Oh, those ones, those ones that never called you back? 

Em: Yeah, kind of. [laughs] 

Christine: Just kidding. [laughs] 

Em: Um, no, I call this my everyday cape ’cause I actually have like four capes. But, um– 

Christine: Yeah, I know. [laughs] 

Em: So this one is– Have you seen this before? Am I showing you something– 

Christine: I don’t– 

Em: –you’ve already seen? 

Christine: I really don’t think I have. 

Em: I’ve had this cape for years, and I really decided to commit to the bit recently, and– 

Christine: I do feel like you’ve talked about it quite a lot, and I feel like in my mind I know it, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen it. 

Em: It’s lovely. I wear it to the dog park often. Um, and not– And I’m not wearing it– I think– Here’s the thing. You have to have the confidence because I am not wearing it to be like spooky or like kitschy or– 

Christine: Quirky or– 

Em: –quirky. Like I’m– 

Christine: Yeah, like eccentric. 

Em: –wearing it functionally. Like it– 

Christine: Ah. 

Em: –just keeps me warm. Like– 

Christine: That’s the key. If you’re wearing it and it’s like, “Oh, that looks comfortable,” I’m not gonna be like, “Why the fuck would you wear that?”, you know. 

Em: You have to wear it like, like– It– I mean, it’s no different than like bringing a blanket somewhere in public, which I guess– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –is weird, but people understand the purpose of the blanket. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: And a cape is just that but with a hood. 

Christine: And I’m like kind of jealous, right? Like if I see someone with a blanket, I’m like, “Oh, I should have thought of that.” 

Em: Well, it’s been– Like there have been nights where like the dog park is really fucking cold, and I’ve seen people bring blankets, and I’m like, “That’s so fucking smart.” And I’m like, “I would–“ 

Christine: That’s really smart. 

Em: I’m like, “I’d rather have a blanket that just buttons on, so I don’t have to hold it.” So that’s what a cape is. 

Christine: Oh my god. Let me see. 

Em: So here– I don’t know if it’s really gonna– 

[Em leans to the side, holding up a black cape with a hood, black buttons, and a black satin lining inside.] 

Christine: [gasps] Oh. 

Em: But– 

Christine: Oh, it looks voluptuous, Em. 

Em: So she’s got a little hood moment. 

Christine: Satin. 

Em: She buttons up at the neck, so it’s– 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: –very, uh, [sings Elphaba’s riff from the end of “Defying Gravity” from Wicked] ♪ Ah ah-ah-ah ah! ♪♪ 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: And then she’s got pockets, and she’s got, um, sleeves. It’s a short– 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: So it’s a crop top cape. It’s like– It ends at– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –at your back. It’s not a long cloak. 

Christine: Wh– Oh, it’s like a poncho. 

Em: C– I guess so. I’ll have to take a picture later. 

Christine: [laughs] That was probably the rudest thing I’ve ever said to you. I’m sorry. 

Em: [laughs] No, I– 

Christine: It’s not like a poncho. Like it’s not like the kind I got at Dillard’s in eighth grade, I promise. 

Em: No, it ends at the waist. It ends, ends at the waist. 

Christine: Oh, it does. Oh, charm– 

Em: It’s like a Little Red Riding Hood size. 

Christine: Oh, charming. Like a capelet. 

Em: Capelet. And then– But it also has like spots where you can put your arms through– 

Christine: [groans] 

Em: –so if you move, the– it moves like wings. 

Christine: When you move, it moves. 

Em: And it has, it has the finger rings, so it stays on your finger so it moves with you. 

Christine: Oh my god. So you’re basically like conducting an orchestra, looking like Batman. 

Em: I know. It’s very comfy, and it’s thick. It’s like– It’s like three sweatshirts thick. 

Christine: I know. They– It looks extremely voluptuously cozy. 

Em: And when you close it up, it literally keeps the, the cold out so well. How did we get here? 

Christine: And then– I don’t know. 

Em: Oh, there’s the, there’s the– a dark, hunch-backed man. 

Christine: He’s wearing a cape, and I’m upset about it, Em. And I’m not saying I’m upset about you wearing a cape. I’m upset about the shadowy man in my bedroom wearing a cape. Like, get out of here. 

Em: It– This is– That, and also, um, final sentence, this is a PSA. If you’ve ever thought about buying a cape, I’ve never once regretted it, and I only get compliments, so everyone leave me alone. Um, except for all– 

Christine: Yeah, fuck you all. 

Em: –all the haters. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Get a cape. It's insane. 

Christine: Wait, where did you, where did you buy the cape? ’Cause then my next question is, “I’d love a cape. Where can I get one?” 

Em: I’ll tell you exactly this one because I, I– 

Christine: Did you buy this on the street too? 

Em: No, I bought this at actually, uh, like a ComicCon and like a s– Um– 

Christine: Oh, that feels right too. 

Em: Which like I guess, technically, it was meant for cosplay, but I never used it for that. I want to get– 

Christine: Anything’s cosplay if you really try hard enough, you know. 

Em: That’s true. To give them a shout-out because I, I want this company to stay in business so that way I can buy more capes. 

Christine: [laughs] For your own selfish reasons. 

Em: It’s called The Original Scarewear. 

Christine: Okay, now. Now we’re talking. 

Em: And it’s called Kreepsville with a K. 

Christine: And now Em’s trying to tell us, “No, no, there’s nothing weird or creepy about this cape.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: And they’re like, “No, there is.” 

[Em holds the tag on the cape up so the Kreepsville logo is shown in creepy font.] 

Christine: Oh, wow. I mean– 

Em: Kreepsville, if you ever wanna do an ad with us, I’ll take as many capes– 

Christine: I think you might get some– 

Em: –as you want. 

Christine: –converts here. Yeah. 

Em: It’s– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –it’s a game changer. I’ve never– And I, I wore it to Wicked, of course. 

Christine: Of course. 

Em: Um, I wear it in Renaissance things. I guess I do cosplay with it. Um– 

Christine: See? 

Em: I’m so sorry to everybody who wanted a short story. Let’s keep going. I’m trying to clock the fuck in. Okay. 

Christine: I’m not sorry. Go on. 

Em: [sighs] There’s a hunchbacked man with a cape– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –and a gruff voice. 

Christine: What could go wrong? 

Em: He’s throwing everything around. He is a real nightmare. And, uh– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –and they’ve been told by priests to ignore him. And then eventually, he decides to walk up to them and tell them that he is, quote, “a minister of God.” 

Christine: Oh go– boy. Okay. 

Em: They continued to try and ignore the obviously dark energy, but oftentimes, uh, the activity was just too intense to ignore. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: For example, the pe– the family would just start hearing a random man scream obscenities. And I feel like a lot of people’d go, “That’s just Grandpa.” But– 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah. “He’s just u-under the weather.” 

Em: [chuckles] “He’s just in the other room.” Um, that one I don’t mind too much. If I heard a random person cussing in the house, it– that’s fine. Um, but– 

Christine: Oh, is it? If you heard a random man cussing in your house? [laughs] 

Em: Compared to every– If that’s the worst, it’s just like, “Ugh, there’s that fucking guy again. He’s just mad at–“ 

Christine: Yeah, fair enough. If I knew who it was, I could kind of just like brush it aside. Yeah. 

Em: Especially when all I know about him is he’s a minister to God, I’m like, “Ugh, the minister’s mad.” Um– 

Christine: “Oh, not the minister again. He loves those swear words.” 

Em: Well, apparently, it got worse because those items that were flying around, like the phone and everything, was now aiming itself at the couple. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Objects were flying into them all the time. 

Christine: Uh-oh. 

Em: Religious objects were getting smashed. Yikes. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Or they were being ripped off the wall. Yikes. The furniture would end up all over the place, including bookcases and desks that were upstairs – they are now downstairs. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Or they’re being toppled over or they’re being found in different rooms. I can’t imagine going home and it’s just– my bookcase is upside down and upstairs and in a different room and toppled over. 

Christine: I, I’d be thrilled. I’d be like, “Finally, somebody helped me move the furniture.” 

Em: I know. Like at least use your power for good. 

Christine: But I, I would want it to be used in the way that I would really need the bookshelf to be placed in this certain way. So yeah, it would be annoying. 

Em: The real kick in the crotch would be if you finally moved it yourself and now it’s back downstairs. 

Christine: Oh! Now, that’s not cool. 

Em: I’d be like, “ [chuckles] You fucking asshole.” 

Christine: “I pulled my back out for that,” you know. 

Em: I know. 

Christine: What is th– Is that the phrase? No. 

Em: Threw it out? 

Christine: Threw it out. 

Em: S– You sounded like someone who’s never thrown your back out. Um, have you? 

Christine: If only. [laughs] If only. 

Em: I can’t i– Oh my god. Um, here’s– I think the creepiest one to me is that they had those like classic attic stairs where you had to like pull them down on a string. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: The stairs to the attic would open themselves, which you might think like, “Okay, the latch is loose or whatever, and it just fell by itself.” But first of all, think of how loud that is if they were to fly down by themselves. 

Christine: That’s terrifying. Terrifying– 

Em: And then– 

Christine: –and dangerous. 

Em: And it c– it couldn’t just be a loose latch. It was clearly something paranormal because not only would the stairs open themselves, they would shut themselves. So something’s pushing it up. 

Christine: No, no. 

Em: And it would open and slam and open and slam, and it was doing it so hard that the ceiling cracked. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: Like that’s it for me. Like cut the cameras. I’m out. 

Christine: Bye. I really– I get it. I’m out. 

Em: Rose seemed to get the most violent attention, of course, because lamps are getting thrown at her head. A freezer door, when she was bending down, um– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –hit her in the head when she came back up. 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: She would find bruises all over herself. She would get grabbed and scratched by, um, unseen hands. And of course, uh, activity got even worse whenever she would pray, then things were like– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –even more intense. And a few months after, uh, dealing with all this torment, Rose is in bed alone one night and starts hearing banging on the walls. And the bed then levitated off the floor– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –I think with her in it, and the doors slam themselves shut to imply that she cannot leave the room. 

Christine: Jesus. Okay. 

Em: The doors only reopened when the family dog growled protectively. Good puppy. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: And when she did get out of the room, she was then grabbed, like out of a horror movie, and dragged back into the room. The door cl– 

Christine: Ah! 

Em: –slammed shut again. She was getting choked, and she’s levitating off the ground by herself– 

Christine: [gasps] It’s like Exorcist shit. 

Em: –and then slammed onto the floor. 

Christine: Oh no! 

Em: Joe finally gets into the room, and he sees her cowering in a corner– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –and, quote, “the bed jumping as high as two feet into the air.” 

Christine: What the fuck is going on? 

Em: Like I miss Serena, girl, you know. I’m tired of this. 

Christine: I know. If only that were– the cussing man and Serena were back. 

Em: And for Miss “I’m Gonna Warn You of an– of Eminent Doom,” like how about– where were you? Or was your whole presence that? Is that– You were just– From the beginning, you, you being here was the warning that something worse was coming? 

Christine: [sighs] You know, she moved out, and it was not her fault that someone else moved in. Okay? 

Em: You know what? I shouldn’t be blaming her. You’re right. 

Christine: I– Listen, she tried. 

Em: She tried. After this, they tried to make, uh, living in the house work, but how could you? And they didn’t have to try for very long until they gave the fuck up, because very soon after this big event where she’s getting thrown around the room, the couple walks into the kitchen and sees, quote, “a heavy carving knife stabbed into the kitchen table.” 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: And it was also just happened to be on one of the kids’ birthdays. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Happy birthday. Um– 

Christine: Aside from a horse head in your bed, that’s the most threatening like symbolism I can think of. 

Em: It’s like– It’s– I’m sure it’s been the cover of movies, horror movies. 

Christine: It has to be. 

Em: But like just walk in, and it’s just stabbed– 

Christine: The butcher knife. 

Em: –upright into the table. 

Christine: Ugh! 

Em: Um, and they didn’t, I don’t think, had butcher block, uh, back in the day– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –as popular as it is today. 

Christine:It’s– Ooh, eugh. Like– 

Em: It was like an expensive table too. 

Christine: [sucks in a breath] Eugh. 

Em: So the couple called the priest again going, “Hey, we listened to you, and fuck you.” 

Christine: [laughs] “Fuck you, first of all.” 

Em: [laughs] Um, they moved out. They were like, “You can do whatever you want with this house. I’m so over it.” I guess priests came in and actually did some sort of pseudo-exorcism on the house. 

Christine: A blessing? 

Em: A ble– Well, no, the first time was a blessing, and then they’re like, “Just ignore it.” 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: This time was like something powerful enough that I guess witnesses were there. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Um, and I guess it was deemed successful because after this there was no more activity. I’ve y– I’ve don’t think I’ve ever covered a story where the priests come in and do one exorcism and it’s handled. 

Christine: Maybe it’s like a cleansing or something? Yeah. I don’t know. 

Em: Yeah, something intense. I imagine Latin was involved, but I don’t– 

Christine: It must have, must have been. 

Em: I just like when Latin’s involved. It– 

Christine: I don’t. 

Em: –feels more serious. Um, I mean– 

Christine: Tr-true. 

Em: –I like when it’s happening in a room I’m not in. 

Christine: Well, right, from afar. Yeah. 

Em: But the story is juicier later. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, so after that, there was no more activity. It really was like exactly how you would hope priests can be helpful. So I guess this is the first time ever, “Thanks, priests.” 

[light applause] 

Christine: And that’s enough credit. 

Em: Yeah. Like thanks like the second time, you know. 

Christine: The end. [laughs] Five claps for you. 

Em: [chuckles] But, uh, after the fact, I think they were still obviously horrified by everything. And that’s when Joe called the, what is now, American Institute of Parapsychology, and he was like, “We had some really fucking crazy things going on here. It’s technically over. Maybe you’ll find something. If you would like– a-attempt a– If you’d like to research a house, you can have this house.” I wonder if he also called them in to be like, “Can you double check that everything’s good?” 

Christine: Uh, true point. “And make sure it doesn’t follow us”? 

Em: Yeah, but it’s– And, and every article had completely different, uh, findings here on what, what happened when the American Institute of Parapsychology went in there. Some sources said they were haunted like crazy and could corroborate every single thing that the family had seen– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –which means that the exorcism didn’t work. Then there were other sources where it was like they couldn’t find anything. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: They just had to go off of stories that they heard from the family, which means that the exorcism did work– 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: –or that there– it was never haunted. Um, or there was other sources that said like they found some things that they could have deemed haunting, but the– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –the most telling information they got was just from like friends and family who overheard the stories. So– 

Christine: Weird. 

Em: –I, I don’t really know what came out of that. But they did look at it, and after they looked at it, they wrote up a report. Could not find the report, um, but I guess in it is where they named the family “the Berinis,” and that’s– 

Christine: Okay, okay. 

Em: –how we get the Berini Haunting. So that is that. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: Yep. 

Christine: That one upset me a little bit. Kind of creeped me out like beyond normal. 

Em: It feels like unless– If you’re not a believer, I’m about to say something so hysterical to you, but to me, it feels like something that could actually happen. 

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. It feel– Exactly what I was gonna say, like an everyday cape– [chuckles] everyday haunting style. 

Em: I have the ca– Honestly, if I saw a hunchback man in a cape in my house, I’d be like, “Take my fucking cape off.” 

Christine: You’d be like, “Who told you you could wear that?” 

Em: Like, “You can haunt me, but don’t raid my closet. What’s fucking wrong with you?” 

Christine: “You’re getting wrinkles in my cape.” 

Em: Yuck. 

Christine: Yuck. Um, I am like really alarmed by that. And I think you’re right. I think it’s because it feels like something that could just happen to a family and then the end. 

Em: I think it’s– I, I think what’s eerie to me is I do not– I’m not opening any portals or anything like that. I, in theory, don’t hate the idea of having like a little ghost going around as long as it’s just like something as simple as what Serena was at first. 

Christine: Totally. 

Em: Like just a little voice. Every now and then, you hear a little thing, and like, okay, that’s the end of it. But as soon as it escalates to like, “Oh, now we’re warning you of bad things, and then I leave. And now you can see a different ghost, and he can even talk to you and interact with you like fucking Casper. And then he’s really fucking scared about something you don’t know that’s coming. And then he leaves the scene, and now it gets worse and worse, and now you’re getting knives in your tables.” Like it, it just feels like, um– It feels personal because the, the unraveling of it, the– 

Christine: Yes, yes, yes. And it escalates to a point where you’re like, “How would you even manage to like stop it?” You know, it’s like the second one leaves, like another one shows up [chuckles] and– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –you’re like, “Wait, wait, wait. I didn’t even have a chance to call the priest.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oof. 

Em: I think it’s– I think maybe it feels personal because you and I would both be open to how it first started. 

Christine: Yeah– 

Em: And we c– 

Christine: –that’s actually concerning. Good point. 

Em: And we could accidentally slip into like the worst of the worst. 

Christine: As I like think about how I have to pee in that bathroom in about ten seconds. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] Uh, is– Did you– You cleaned up the floor? 

Christine: A little bit. [chuckles] 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: There’s still some mirror around. 

Em: Well, thank you everybody for listening to my– Oh, there she goes. 

[Christine’s video disappears and is replaced with a black screen.] 

Christine: Uh-oh, my camera died. Super. 

[In the middle of Christine’s black screen, “elgato” is written next to its logo. Underneath in smaller font, it says “– no signal –“] 

Em: Girl. 

Christine: Girl. 

Em: Elgato. [sighs] What’s that? A cat? 

Christine: Well, I was charging my vape, and I used the cord for my camera to charge my vape. 

Em: I– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: That is the least surprising thing I’ve ever heard you say. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: “Hey, I know we’re in the middle of work, but, um, I’m gonna charge my vape with the camera cord.” 

Christine: [laughs] “I’m gonna unplug my camera.” 

Em: [laughs] What a mystery this is. 

Christine: Oh, you know, you could have used the– I could have used the cord for my– that I plug my light into, but no– 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: –I used the cord that I plug my camera into, so. 

Em: Can you imagine if, um, Elgato was paying us for this spot right now? That would be– 

Christine: Now, that would be nice. ’Cause they are great. 

Em: –hysterical. I mea– Elgato, this– You have the opportunity to do the funniest thing in the world right now is just give us some money, and we’ll keep this screen going and never see Christine again. 

[Christine’s video reappears.] 

Em: Aww. 

Christine: Oh man, you didn’t, you didn’t, you didn’t bring the money to the table, Elgato. 

[Christine’s video disappears and is replaced with the black screen again.] 

Em: You didn’t– Oh! 

Christine: Okay. I think, I think I’ve gotta, um, do a little refresh [chuckles] or re– 

[Christine’s video reappears.] 

Christine: –or something. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Okay. Well, thank you everyone for the story– or for listening to my story, and I guess we’ll “reset” as it were. And you can go pee in your haunted potty, and I’ll go get my sticker book. 

Christine: Yeah, we’ll reconvene for Yappy Hour, um, which you can listen to on the p– your podcast feed or Patreon. Okay, so you hopefully see me in a moment. 

Em: Okay. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

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Christine’s Story – The Todt Family Murders - Part 2 

Christine: I forgot to also mention that, um, I did make a TikTok when it happened ’cause I heard the crashing sound and went upstairs with the video on ’cause I was like, “If I’m about to either run into a serial killer or a demon–“ 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: “–I’d at least want to make content out of it.” 

Em: Duh. 

Christine: Um, yeah, so if you want to see what I– what I’m talk– what it looks like, you can look on my TikTok. But I’ll also add that I’m very curious to see if anybody like senses anything, you know. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Like if they see the bathroom– Like I’m just curious if anybody like– if they look at it and they’re like, “Ooh, something–“ 

Em: Similar to our conversation about like with the new technology what are ghosts capable of, I wonder with the new technology what psychics are capable of. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: Because I’ve always wanted to meet somebody who can like see things on a screen that’s like being recorded that like– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –I obviously can’t see anything next to you. But if someone’s like, “Oh, there’s someone sitting next to you–“ I, I would love to know if someone is capable of that or is that too crazy? 

Christine: Oh, yeah, that’s very common. 

Em: No? 

Christine: No, no, I don’t think so. I mean, that’s how we found out about Harry. Remember that Moonlight Medium said, “Someone’s walking around behind you,” and I was like, “Oh–“ 

Em: Oh, right. I totally for for– 

Christine: Remember? Terrifying 

Em: –forgot his origin story. 

Christine: Um, yeah. No, it’s definitely a thing ’cause I mean so many virtu– appointments and– with psychics and things are virtual now anyway, so I think they kind of have to be– 

Em: Interesting. Yeah, I always– It feels like– [chuckles] 

Christine: Transcends time and space, you know what I mean. 

Em: I feel like I am a believer in a lot of things, but that one is like hard for me to wrap my head around that like some– you– I feel like you have to be in the room to sense the energy, but I’m also not a fucking psychic or medium, so I don’t know what I’m talking about. 

Christine: I mean, you are, but that’s besides the point. [chuckles] 

Em: It did get me, um, a opportunity with, um, the LA Ghostbusters out here. Did you– Do you know about them? Like the– 

Christine: What? No. 

Em: It’s a volunteer group. It’s not actual ghost hunting. 

Christine: You are burying the lead on so many things today. You’re like, “Oh, one time my friend–“ What was the thing you said earlier? 

Em: I don’t know, but I’m practicing to be a dad who just says like nothing. [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah. Seriously, like you said something like a haunted story earlier. You’re like, “Yeah, but this haunting happened to my friend,” and I’m like, “What?” 

Em: Oh, the closed captioning. Yeah. 

Christine: Yes, that’s the thing. Okay. And now what, what are you telling me now? 

Em: Um– 

Christine: Oh, the ghost– What is it? LA Ghosthunter. 

Em: It’s a volunteer group, um, that, uh– 

Christine: [gasps] A vigilante group? 

Em: No, it’s like volunteering at hospitals, but they, uh– 

Christine: Oh! 

Em: They’re just a– 

Christine: What? 

Em: What? 

Christine: Oh, as the Ghostbusters? 

Em: They’re dressed up as Ghostbusters to like go see the kids. 

Christine: I thought you meant like they literally do like ghost hu– 

Em: Hunting in hospitals? [laughs] 

Christine: And I was like, “That’s really disrespectful that they go to a hospital.” I thought it meant like people die, and they go there to like– [laughs] 

Em: Oh, they’re like, “Don’t worry, we’ll suck up the ghost–“ 

Christine: [laughs] Okay. I’m s– 

Em: “–before anyone gets out of here.” [laughs] 

Christine: Wow. I read that really wrong. Okay, so it’s like they– Oh, it’s like– Wait. So wait, what do you mean? So what happened with them with you? 

Em: S– Uh, well, no, ’cause they did the Kreskin ESP thing on me, and I like nailed it. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, that’s who that was. 

Em: Yeah. Even they– When I– When, when it was happening, they looked around, and they were like, “This is fucking weird.” I saw them make eyes with each other. [laughs] 

Christine: It’s really weird. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: It's really weird, Em. It’s really weird. 

Em: But so I, I got a, a, an email asking if I– Well, not asking if I wanted to join. I told them I was interested in joining, and they, um, sent me an email. And so, now I guess I’m– I don’t know what the right word is, but it’s like a– It’s not just like a, “Oh, come and join whenever.” It’s like a– It takes like six months and a certain amount of like hours and– before they even consider me. 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: It’s like really intense. Um– 

Christine: Wait, but wow. 

Em: I know. But so it helps raise money for, um, children’s hospital gowns to look like Ghostbusters uniforms so that way they feel like they’re Ghostbusters. And everyone– 

Christine: Please. 

Em: –everyone gets like a plush ghost, like a little pl– like a stuffed animal in the hospital. 

Christine: God. 

Em: Um, and they do a bunch of, they do a bunch of charity work, but the one thing that they were proud to show off was they had one of the ch– the Ghostbusters looking children’s robes. It literally looks like you’re a fucking Ghostbuster. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: It was very cool looking. 

Christine: Now, that’s cool. 

Em: Um– 

Christine: I mean, that’s really cool. 

Em: And then they go in and hang out with kids and, you know, show them all– You have– Like literally to be one of them, you have to have like the like equipment, and then like the kids, I guess, get to play with it and stuff. 

Christine: The thing, yeah. 

Em: Um, it’s just a volunteering thing. 

Christine: You have to like cosplay for real. Wow. 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. And they even said like you– 

Christine: Ah. 

Em: –“only when you, uh, have a uniform and a proton pack and all this stuff, then like we’ll consider you.” [chuckles] 

Christine: Get your proton pack. [chuckles] 

Em: And I’m like, “What the fuck?” Like– 

Christine: Can you imagine turn– When you leave, they’re like, “Turn in your proton pack,” instead of your badge. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Um, no, they like send like a, like a– It felt like a Harry Potter list of like you have to have all these things on your uniform before you can come to Hogwarts. 

Christine: [laughs] A proton pack. 

Em: And it was like, “You have to have–“ 

Christine: A cape? 

Em: “–this type of knee pad and this type of belt and this type of this and–“ They’re very serious about it. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: So– [tsks] I don’t know. 

Christine: Are you gonna do it? 

Em: I think so. It sounds fun. 

Christine: Sounds cool. Leona came home, um, during f– the fall at some point, and she’s in a new preschool class, and she was like, “Who are you gonna call?” And I was like– 

Em: [whispers] Ghostbusters. 

Christine: And I was like, “Ghostbusters”? And she’s like, “Yeah!” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: And I was like– 

Em: I like how– 

Christine: –“This is a fun turn of events.” [laughs] 

Em: I love that she’s giving you a litmus test. Uh– 

Christine: She did. And she was like, “Shockingly, my mother passed.” Um, apparently it’s like her teacher’s favorite movie– 

Em: Oh, fun. 

Christine: –so she’s been singing that all, all fall. I’ve never seen it. 

Em: Oh, it’s very good. Um– 

Christine: So I didn’t pass that litmus test, but she doesn’t need to know that. 

Em: Let’s see if we can watch it together. It’s not really scary. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I mean, she might be scared. 

Christine: Yeah, well. 

Em: She’s four. 

Christine: I was gonna say she’s kind of scared of like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –Peppa Pig sometimes, so [laughs] I don’t know. 

Em: [laughs] Okay, maybe when she’s older. Um, but no, I didn’t mean to like spring– 

Christine: She’s a lot like me. I don’t know if you’re, uh, catching on to the like whole Sinister or Insidious, um– 

Em: It’s certainly not Insidious. 

Christine: –movie watching vibe. Yeah. 

Em: It’s certainly not Insid– But, uh– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: No, so I’m probably gonna– I’m more excited about like they’re– they get, um – what’s the right word – reserved or booked a lot for like Halloween events and all that, so. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: Yeah. I don’t know. Seems fun. 

Christine: That’s so cool. And you passed their psychic test. [laughs] 

Em: I passed their psychic test. They– And then they gave me a candy eyeball be– for my third eye. 

Christine: Hell yeah. That’s kickass. 

Em: What are you– 

Christine: I can’t wait to see the proton– 

Em: What are you up to these days? Are you in any groups or doing any fun things? 

Christine: You know, I just was looking into a group that goes around and makes a lot of noise outside of hotels where ICE is staying. [laughs] 

Em: Really? I haven’t heard about any of those. You want to elaborate or, um– 

Christine: [laughs] Um– 

Em: That sounds very fun. I’m very proud of you. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s pretty cool. But, um, they’re– Yeah, they’re trying– They have like an anonymous tip line of like where, where ICE is staying, and unfortunately, they’re coming to, uh, a neighborhood in my town very soon. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: And it’s becoming a very, um, high-stress environment because we have been watching all this, of course, Minneapolis, and there is a detention center near here and stuff, but it’s becoming a lot more like close to home ob– in a literal way. So everyone’s kind of bracing for that. Um, so I’ve been looking into that as far as like volunteer stuff. And then just like, again, like try to be analog a little bit. Like do more just like creative for just to be creative, not like to– Like I’m always like, “Well, what am I gonna do with this a–“ 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like I always feel like I need to make something productive out of it. I’m trying to like just be low-key, but it’s hard. [laughs] I’m not very low-key about relaxing. 

Em: [chuckles] No? Um– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Well, I, I wish you the best. And again, sticker books are very fun. 

Christine: I mean, honestly, I’m looking around, like making mental notes of the piles like where they are ’cause I’m like– 

Em: Well– 

Christine: –“I gotta get those ones and those ones together and–“ 

Em: I was gonna say, think of it this way: if you need to be productive, uh, that like– 

Christine: Yeah, I mean– 

Em: –it, it– you’re also cleaning your house. 

Christine: It scratches both itches, yeah. 

Em: You’re organizing your stuff. 

Christine: Yeah, to say a gross thing, but like it kind of works. Yeah. Um, okay. So I’m doing part two today of the Todt family murders in Celebration, Florida. 

Em: I’m so excited. 

Christine: Oh my word. It’s just such a fucking doozy. Um, I have a little summary for everyone, including myself, just to keep us all in the loop. Um, if you’ve not heard part one, I would go listen to that because it’s just deeply insane. Um, and it’s pretty relevant to what’s gonna be discussed today. So here’s a summary of part one. We’ve got Anthony “Tony” Todt, and his wife, Megan. And by the way, Todt [pronounced “tote”], like some people say “tot”. It’s T-O-D-T. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, I just say Todt [pronounced “tote”]. I feel like that’s the more common pronunciation, but not 100% sure on that. His wife, Megan– They were highly regarded physical therapists in Connecticut. They had three children, Alek, Tyler, and Zoe– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –um, 11, 8, and 4, I believe, were their ages at this point. They were a “normal,” quote unquote, loving household, seemingly from the outside. But after moving to the Disney-designed town of Celebration, Florida, in 2017, the family became increasingly isolated. Megan struggled with Lyme disease, apparently, due to a tick bite she got at Disney, and depression. Um, her father– I don’t think I mentioned this last week, maybe I did, but her father had died by suicide like a decade earlier. And, um, it was something that like weighed on her, obviously, heavily throughout the years, but then I think Tony– A lot of this is information we got through Tony, and like take everything he says with like a mountain of salt– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –because he’s full of shit. 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: But like when he says like, “Oh, she was so sick and depressed and didn’t like this world,” I’m like, how much do I believe about what was really going on versus like is he exaggerating– 

Em: Well, especially ’cause– 

Christine: –to make her look bad. 

Em: –he was saying, he was saying like, oh, their whole “doomsday thing” that he’s– He’s claiming– 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: –that they were both like into thinking that like December 28 is the end of the world and they had this suicide pact, and– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And I, I call bullshit, 100%. 

Christine: And then he goes to jail and calls his sister and goes, “Oh, I actually wasn’t there at all.” 

Em: Yeah. Like you– 

Christine: “Megan did all of it.” Yeah. 

Em: –have lost the plot, my friend. 

Christine: Yeah. The credibility, yeah. Like, how am I supposed to believe anything you’re fucking saying right now? There’s no proof of this, no witnesses, you know. I just don’t believe you in general. So I don’t know how much of this is true ’cause a lot of it is information from him. But from what we can tell, she was struggling with some health issues. 

[Em tracks a bug in the air, clapping their hands together to kill it.] 

Christine: Was that a fruitfly? 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Sorry. 

Christine: Was or is? Did he, did he– [chuckles] 

Em: I can’t tell. 

Christine: Did he meet his doom? Okay. 

Em: He might still be here. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Sorry. I didn’t mean to take away from your story. I’m sorry. 

Christine: No, [chuckles] no, you’re fine. Okay. So from what people could tell though, Tony, at least from the outside, and I guess Megan a little bit too, they were not doing great. Um, she was looking a bit sick. She had lost a lot of weight, and he was actually gaining a lot of weight, um, and he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes at this point. Um, they were just– They were going through it, but no one except Tony knew how bad things really were. Because behind the scenes, Tony was actually drowning in a financial crisis, and we don’t even think Megan knew the half of it, you know, his wife. 

Em: I don’t think so. 

Christine: I don’t think so. He was under federal investigation for $130,000 in Medicaid fraud at his, at his Connecticut practice. He faced over $100,000 in personal debt to like 20 different lenders, um, some like really, you know, sketchy ones that you don’t want to be owing money to. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, by late 2019, his professional license had expired. His business was collapsing. His family was facing eviction from their home in Florida. And this is when the holidays come up, 2019 holiday season. The family kind of appears to go off-grid. Uh, Tony sends some weird texts to relatives claiming everyone has the flu and they’re not coming back to Connecticut like usual– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –for Christmas. Um, weeks of silence go by. Uh, the family orders some wellness checks. Federal agents and local deputies finally enter the home on January 13, 2020, and they discover that Tony has been living with the deceased bodies of his entire family for up to two weeks or so– 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: –perhaps longer than that. Uh, they find him dazed. He claims to be, um, experiencing a Benadryl overdose. Uh, he had staged his family, his victims, uh, wrapped in blankets, holding crucifixes, almost in like a– 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: –shrine-like manner. Uh, he initially provided a detailed confession, claiming he and Megan both went into the suicide pact together to keep the family together in the afterlife. He outright, on recording, boldly admitted to suffocating his four-year-old daughter, suffocating and stabbing Alek and Tyler, assisting Megan’s suicide by suffocating her after she stabbed herself, and then killing the family dog because they wanted to take the dog with them– 

Em: Sick. 

Christine: –and then not knowing how to kill himself. And this is– That was his story, that he tried so hard, and he c– just couldn’t do it. But he could kill his four-year-old, but– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Right, that was a lot easier. 

Christine: Wow. That part wasn’t so hard. Jesus Christ. 

Em: That one actually, you know– And he also survived, and not only that, but then he like ate Peanut M&M’s next to his– next to the baby’s corpse. 

Christine: I literally put the– this morning put the Peanut M&M’s back in this part two. I was like– 

Em: I– 

Christine: –it deserves another fucking mention. It’s so– 

Em: I really respect that– 

Christine: –sick. 

Em: –in the last episode you tried to be like, “Well, I don’t want to like give off like– I don’t want to get too into the nitty-gritty of it,” but like now that’s what I’m gonna remember him as is like the guy who ate Peanut M&M’s– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: –next to his fucking kid’s dead body. 

Christine: Exa– That’s what sticks with me because I think, I think it’s exactly what you’re saying that it’s like so specific that it almost makes it just like more real and like tangible. 

Em: It feels– 

Christine: Like you’re like, “Can you imagine somebody doing that? Like that’s so fucked up.” 

Em: Bear with me. It feels relatable becau– like in a way– 

Christine: Yeah. It feels accessible like to understand from a– Yeah, exactly. 

Em: It feels like it– I don’t know why because it actually feels like it’s literally the least relatable thing in the entire world, but it’s– 

Christine: R– 

Em: There’s something– I can understand eating M&M’s, and it’s like– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –doing something so everyday, so common, so like– it, it– next to you a fucking corpse? 

Christine: And I was gonna mention this later. It is, it is– I’m just gonna mention it now because it’s just as relevant now, but the Peanut M&M’s, they’re actually on a receipt of a pellet gun he bought at a sporting goods store. And he bought like– I, I forget what soda. It’s not a Dr. Pepper, but it was like, like a Diet Coke and a, a bag of Peanut M&M’s, and then a pellet gun and pellet ammunition. And like you just see the receipt, and it’s just like so creepy to see just like a Dick’s Sporting Goods receipt with like Peanut M– And you’re like, this guy just went to the store. 

Em: I think it’s bec– 

Christine: His fam– his family’s all dead at home. I mean, it’s just sick. 

Em: I think it’s because he– what he did is so hard to wrap my head around that when you– 

Christine: Abhorrent. 

Em: –when you bring it back down to earth with something as simple as like– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –“Oh, he also just like goes to Dick’s. He also just–“ 

Christine: Yep. 

Em: “–eats M&M’s like us.” And it’s like– 

Christine: Wants a Diet Coke, yeah. 

Em: It makes it extra eerie ’cause it’s like I can somehow relate to a part of you and not be able to get– 

Christine: Well– 

Em: So like if you’re– if you can be normal like that– 

Christine: And for us, it’s like, “Oh, I know a guy–” 

Em: –or human like that– 

Christine: “I know that guy.” You’re like, “I could know that guy.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “That could be my neighbor. I could know the guy at the Dicks– in front of me at the Dick Sporting Goods buying Peanuts M&Ms.” You know? It’s just like– 

Em: Like if you said, if you said like, “Oh, he killed his family, and then he also ate like, um, a big bowl of like glitter and scrapple,” then I’d be like, “That’s insane.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Like, like, “And I still can’t relate, and it’s just as ridiculous as the rest of it.” But like this is very like– 

Christine: It feels like so mundane– 

Em: Yeah, that’s the word. 

Christine: –I think. Yeah. 

Em: Well done. 

Christine: That’s the word. 

Em: We got there. 

Christine: It’s my brother’s favorite word. He loves when anything is mundane. I don’t know why. 

Em: I get it. 

Christine: He just like loves– Like it’s very emo, you know, like [in a dramatic voice] “just a mundane short story about someone living their life,” you know. Um, sorry, Xandy. I love you. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: But, uh, yeah, it’s very mundane, and that makes it like so much creepier somehow. Um, anyway, okay, thank you for bringing up the Peanut M&M’s. It was definitely in my notes, so I’m glad you said it. Um, so he admits to all of this, okay. And then he gets to jail, and he’s like, “Hm, I don’t think this is for me.” [scoffs] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: He is on the phone with his sister who’s fucking terrified and confused and was one of the people– She– Her name’s Chrissy. She’s younger. Um, she’s one of the people that have called for wellness checks on the family. Um, Tony changes his story when he’s talking to Chrissy. He starts saying, um, he had no memory of his confession. He says he doesn’t remember anything about the month of December. He doesn’t remember confessing, which then like why do you suddenly seem to have such a vivid memory of the fact that you were not home when your wife, Megan, murdered your children and you had no idea. This is what he’s telling Chrissy now. “Oops. I actually wasn’t there. I had nothing to do with it.” 

Em: Like insane. Like w-w– especially when there’s– 

Christine: And she’s like, “You told them you did,” and he goes, “I don’t remember that.” [chuckles] 

Em: They literally fucking found you there. What are you–? Like– 

Christine: Like it’s on camera. 

Em: Like– [sighs] 

Christine: Like what are you talking about? 

Em: Oh my god. Like and if you weren’t there when they died, explain how you were able to walk inside and throw your keys on the table and see the dead corpses and blood everywhere and then just keep it moving. Like what do you mean? 

Christine: And then buy Peanut M&M’s for dinner, yeah. Uh, don’t worry, Em. I have an entire explanation for all of it– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –from his mouth. 

Em: Thank god. 

Christine: And it’s very, it’s very– 

Em: Let’s hear it. I wanna go. I’m ready. 

Christine: –absur– It’s absurd. It’s absurd. It’s absurd. It’s bullshit. It’s absurd. So now he’s pleading “not guilty.” This is the summary of what we covered last week. And what I ended on was that in June 2020, while awaiting trial in the Osceola County Jail, Anthony Todt sent a 27-page handwritten letter to his father, Robert, aka “Bob.” This was their first significant contact in years as Anthony had been estranged from Robert following a crime he was convicted of in 1980. The crime that Bob Todt, his dad, was convicted of was the crime of hiring a hitman to take out his own wife– 

Em: I forgot about this, yes. 

Christine: –Tony’s mother. This is why this story took me so many freaking weeks to do ’cause it’s like– It’s just so, so many layers. 

Em: And so we’re saying that this– that he had not been speaking to his father because of this atrocity? 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: And yet– 

Christine: They were estranged, and yet. Here comes the 27-page letter. 

Em: [chuckles] Are you gonna read the whole thing? 

Christine: [chuckles] No. Oh my god. Imagine. Actually, one of the YouTubers, um, that I watched, uh, do a three-part series on this read like I think all of it? 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: Most of it, all of it. And it’s in his handwriting, so there were words where she’s like, “I literally don’t know what this word says. I have no idea.” But it is the ramblings of– 

Em: A mad man. 

Christine: –a narcissistic dad. Like it’s literally just a rambling of somebody that you’d be like, “Yep, obviously a total self-involved narcissist without empathy.” Like, you just read it, and you’re like, “Really? That’s what you’re complaining about in this 27-page letter?” 

Em: Wild. 

Christine: “Your children were murdered, and you’re like, ‘I’ve been doing a lot of housework, and, you know–‘“ It’s like– It’s just like, “What are you doing?” He’s unwell. Okay, so I’m gonna tell you the story though about Bob and Loretta, his mom and dad, um, and what happened to them when he was only four years old. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: So here’s the story. Loretta Todt woke up in the late evening to find a man in her bedroom at her home in Bensalem, Pennsylvania. This is 1980. The intruder subsequently shot Loretta in the face at close range before rifling through doors to stage a burglary. Four-year-old Anthony walked into the hallway upon hearing this gunshot and reportedly saw a man in the hallway, and some sources report that the man picked four-year-old Bob up and put him back in his bed. 

Em: Oh. [sighs] 

Christine: Loretta survived, miraculously, but the bullet destroyed her left eye and remained permanently lodged in her skull, um, causing lifelong health struggles. Following the event, her husband, Robert “Bob,” claimed a “Charles Manson-style” cult had broken in and smeared blood all over the walls, and– 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: –the police were not buying it, okay. 

Em: No? Okay. 

Christine: No, I know. Shocking. They arrested John Ch– The amount of times people probably blamed Charles Manson for shit and the police were like, “We’ve heard that one before. It's 1980. Come on.” 

Em: It– I mean, it ha– it– You know s– other people who killed their families though were like, “Finally. Like now I’ve got a really good excuse.” 

Christine: Perfect excuse, yeah. Perfect, uh, scapegoat. 

Em: Like Charles Manson just really helped everybody kill their family members. 

Christine: I guess so because he claimed that that is exactly what happened, but police were not buying it. They arrested John Chairmonte, an acquaintance that, uh, Bob knew through his teaching job as a special education teacher. This was a former student of his brother’s, I think, or of hi– at the school. Um, c– Chairmonte confessed that Robert Todt offered him $800 to kill a woman Bob described only as “a babysitter.” This is his wife, the mother of his children. Bob allegedly provided Chairmonte with a house key, a .32-caliber revolver, and bullets to carry out the hit. And in newspaper testimony summaries, Chairmonte also claimed Bob told him to shoot Loretta and said he could stab her too if he wanted, as long as the job got done. 

Em: Ew. I’m like– 

Christine: Y-yeah. 

Em: –“Oh, and if– It’s up–“ 

Christine: “Up to you.” 

Em: That’s like a cat playing with like, like, like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –like torturing a mouse or something– 

Christine: [sucks in deep breath] 

Em: –and it’s like, “Just kill the fucking mouse.” 

Christine: Yuck. 

Em: But it’s like, “Oh, and if you want to like yank on its dead body while you’re at it.” That’s what it feels like. 

Christine: Eugh. 

Em: It’s like, “Oh, and you can, you can play. You have room to play.” 

Christine: Yeah, “You can– You have room to do what you want.” Like yuck. 

Em: Ugh. 

Christine: I mean, it’s all yuck. 

Em: Jesus. 

Christine: Investigators quickly discovered Bob was leading a double life, actually a triple life, uh, and was scheduled to marry– scheduled to marry a nurse named Colleen Fecho just one month later. They already– 

Em: Ugh. [sighs] 

Christine: –had their wedding date planned. And, uh– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: –he decided this would be easier, I guess, than divorcing his wife. Um– 

Em: Imagine being engaged and finding out that– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And then she had to testify about like– ’Cause he was actually at her house. This Colleen woman, he was at her house as like his alibi when, um, this occurred, and she was having to testify what time he left and– I mean, just to get wrapped up in something like this. Um, also, I said double life. I meant triple life. He was also “dating” – I don’t know what the laws were back then – a 17-year-old girl as well. 

Em: [scoffs] 

Christine: So this f– 

Em: Well, I know what the law was, but I don’t know, uh– 

Christine: –fucker– Yeah. 

Em: –what morality was as a– 

Christine: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly. 

Em: Hm. 

Christine: So, um, I say “dating” loosely because I, I don’t know like legality-wise if this is considered consensual. I, I assume maybe at 17, you know, back then, but I don’t know. I don’t know. Either way, it’s just– It’s so gross. And he has these three people on the hook here. Um– 

Em: Mm. [sighs] 

Christine: –and he has two kids at home. And now this four-year-old literally witnessed his mother getting shot in the face. Okay? And like remember, you know, decades later, this is the one who literally– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –kills his own wife and kids. So it’s, it’s just such a weird cyclical like– 

Em: I would love to know the why behind like– which we’ll never get that answer, but like– 

Christine: I know. 

Em: –was it, was it because you witnessed this that, that, that changed you? And it always was like now an option for you because you saw that it was an option for somebody else? 

Christine: Right. 

Em: Or like– Or is this something chemically where both of you had this within you? 

Christine: Exactly. Is this like a genetic like, uh– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –lack of empathy or a psychopathy or like– Yeah. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Did the, did the event like traumatize you to the point that it was, yeah, in your subconscious? Is it something you’ve thought about? Like it’s just a million questions. 

Em: Yeah, was it– Yeah, I mean like was it normalized because of what happened or– Yeah. It’s– 

Christine: Eugh. 

Em: I don’t know. 

Christine: I mean, it’s like obviously traumatizing, especially like running into the guy in the hallway, and then he picks you up and puts you– I mean, anyway. 

Em: But to also not speak to your father for years because of this tells me that you knew it was wrong. So is, is this just a stroke of coincidence that like, “What are the odds two generations would do this?” 

Christine: He’s like, “[chuckles] Two buddies–“ 

Em: That feels crazy to me. 

Christine: Like, “Two buddies sitting next to each other–“ 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “–totally innocent.” Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Em: Yeah, I know. 

Christine: Um– 

Em: Oy. [sighs] 

Christine: So Bob’s attorney argued that being an adulterer did not make him a murderer. Sure, that’s true. Um– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: They tried to say that this, this Chairmonte guy like did this all on his own for drug money. Um, Loretta actually – this is pretty sad too – she testified for the defense and wept on stage and said her own husband would never do this. Even if he was having an affair, he would never try to hurt her. It’s like pretty obvious he did this, but she had known him since she was 14– 

Em: Just denial. 

Christine: –and like she just was like, “There’s no way.” Like how do you even blame her for that? 

Em: I would be in denial too. 

Christine: Exactly. Um, she really just couldn’t wrap her head around it. In 1981, the jury convicted Robert of attempted homicide, conspiracy, and solicitation to commit murder. Um, at the sentencing, Bob embraced Loretta, uh, and she shouted at the jury that they would have to “sleep with this” for the rest of their lives. But fortunately, within, I don’t know, maybe months, a year, uh, they were divorced. She, she divorced him, and she did have to raise the children alone, um, while struggling with like just the physical, the trauma, um, emotional, psychological. And now she’s a single mom of these two kids, um, who were also traumatized, right. Like this is just all– It’s heavy stuff. 

Em: Bad. 

Christine: Um, so Bob was released on parole in the early 1990s. Um, the family really didn’t have much contact with him at that poi– after that point. And now we fast forward to 2020. Okay? So like 30-ish years later. The child who witnessed this violence at only four years old, Tony, grew up to be the man who now murdered his own wife and children 40 years later in Celebration, Florida. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: So Tony writes this letter to his dad. It’s 27 pages. I’m not gonna read the whole thing. I kind of want to. Maybe I’ll do that on like just like [chuckles] a bonus, bonus– “boco”. [laughs] 

Em: Like a weird Yappy Hour. It’s like– 

Christine: Yeah, right. Just like a sad– 

Em: Horrible storytime. 

Christine: –reading. Yeah, yeah. Storytime. Um, almost to commiserate basically was this letter to– about being wrongly accused. Like, “Isn’t it rough to be in this position?” His dad, by the way– 

Em: Ugh. 

Christine: –was like, “You’re giving me bad press.” [laughs] It’s like– 

Em: Oh, right. You did say that last time. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Yuck. 

Christine: He was like, “You’re giving me a bad look.” And it’s like, if you’re– 

Em: “You’re making me look bad,” yeah. 

Christine: If he– If your dad, who tried to murder your mom, says you’re giving him bad press, like it’s just– 

Em: [chuckles] Hello? 

Christine: It’s gotta be bad. It’s gotta be bad. So Tony implored Bob to trust his account of what “really” happened. And he even asked his father to keep the contents of the letter private, uh, between him and his wife only. Although, part of me wonders if he– I mean, he’s not an idiot. He knows that mail is monitored in and out. So part of me is like I think he was trying again to lay groundwork like– 

Em: Sure, I think so too. 

Christine: –by writing in a letter all about how great he is and what he does for his family, blah-blah-blah. So I don’t think it was necessarily naivete. I think he did this on purpose. It ended up biting him in the ass, thank god, ’cause, uh, the letter’s insane, but I don’t think he knew that. So the narrative Tony crafted in the letter was basically, um, an expanded version, uh, of, of his initial, uh, kind of plot twist where he says Megan did it all, um, placed all the blame on Megan. He actually wrote, by the way– Ironically in a 27-page letter, he finally got to the murders of his family, and he wrote, “Long story short,” which– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –I’m like, “Uh, are you fucking kidding me?" That’s how you introduce– “Now, let’s talk about the elephant in the room. Long story short–“ Hello? You’ve just spent like– 

Em: Lot of buildup. 

Christine: –pages talking about how hard you worked on your home renovation projects, and now you’re like, “Anyway, long story short.” Don’t do that. Don’t do that. 

Em: So embarrassing. 

Christine: “Long story short,” Tony wrote, “she gave them the Benadryl/Tylenol PM pie, separated them, woke up at 11:30 p.m., stabbed and then suffocated each one.” He claimed he wasn’t even home when it happened, that Megan had asked him to go get Zoe’s Mickey Mouse necklace from their nearby condo, and he was so tired that when he– because he had been a really good dad that day, and he wrote a– 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: Right. 

Em: I’m sorry. 

Christine: It’s a really exhausting job. [laughs] 

Em: I’m so– I’m sorry. That one day, he did something right. 

Christine: He did. He played basketball with the kids, um, even though he didn’t really want to. 

Em: [scoffs] He’s– 

Christine: But he just loved them so much. 

Em: Honestly, he’s so brave. He’s so brave. 

Christine: He’s so brave to be admitting all of this. Um, so he goes on and on about like how exhausted he was from being a really good dad, um, and husband. And so he says he goes to get this necklace for his daughter that his mo– uh, his wife said Zoe wanted, but he was so tired from all the things he did with the kids that day that he fell asleep in his van outside the condo, looked for the necklace, didn’t find it. Also, side note, he told Chrissy this story, and she went to the condo, and it was exactly in the spot where he said, “Oh, I looked in the jewelry box in her– in Zoe’s room. It wasn’t there.” And then Chrissy showed up and opened the jewelry box and was like, “It’s literally right here.” So like– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –you either didn’t look, you’re making it up. Like he’s not even making up a good story. But anyway, that’s kind of besides the point. But, so he says he goes to get this necklace. He falls asleep in the car ’cause he’s so tired c– from being such a good dad. Then he– 

Em: [scoffs] 

Christine: –never finds the necklace. He wakes up and realizes he missed his and his wife’s “4 a.m. physical therapy appointment”– 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: –because he’s been trying to help her heal from all her ailments, and he– 

Em: And he had a bad day yesterday. He had to like spend time with his kids for five minutes. 

Christine: [chuckles] And that w– [laughs] That was so hard. Um– 

Em: It was really hard. [chuckles] 

Christine: And so now he has a 4 a.m. physical therapy. And then he even turns this on his wife because he literally said, “I knew I was gonna get a scolding from my wife about this,” and it’s like, “Fuck you.” Like– 

Em: Truly. 

Christine: –fuck you. There’s no 4 a.m. phys– Shut up. 

Em: Shut up. 

Christine: So he goes– 

Em: Shut the fuck up. 

Christine: Shut the fuck up. So he goes, “I’m going back to my house. I know I’m gonna get a scolding worse than usual for falling asleep on her and like not going to her physical therapy.” Whatever. He rushes back, allegedly, and finds an eerily quiet home with all of his three children dead inside. And his wife, of course looking like a total lunatic, saying like, “Hi, honey,” you know, “I killed the children.” I mean– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –it’s just like, really? Okay. You’re– L– No. 

Em: Guess how much I believe. A hot 0%. 

Christine: Hot 0%, hot 0%. Quote, “I entered the house to find the melted dessert and remnants on plates on the tab–“ By the way, he’s a terrible writer. And like the prepositions alone– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –it’s like “on, on, on the–“ It– It’s terrible writing. 

Em: Do you think it’s– I mean, I, I, I would just argue just ’cause he’s a stupid person, but do you think he was nervous and like it just became a rambling because he was trying to like fill in all the blanks? 

Christine: No, I think he just like thinks very highly of himself, and he writes in this sort of flowery way, you know, where you– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –you’re like, “Who are you trying to impress you fucking loser?” 

Em: “The fucking queen?” Yeah. 

Christine: Right. Like shut up. And he’s like– He– Uh, the, the creator– Oh god, what is her name? I need to look up her name so I give her credit. But she was basically saying like nobody– like he’s basically doing this to– He says this phrase all the time that’s like “as I am a dedicated father,” or like, “as I–“ Like you can just tell he has these stupid like writing tendencies that– He’s trying to sound like a genius, I guess, um, you know, mentioning he’s a doctor, mentioning like all these things about himself to his own dad to try and get approval, I guess, from his murderous father. Um– 

Em: Great. 

Christine: I gotta scroll through all these Angelina Ballerina clips to find the– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –video [chuckles] of– 

Em: I’m so sorry. I thought you fucking said Angela Anaconda from fucking Nickelodeon. 

Christine: Oh, I don’t even know who that is. 

Em: Oh, it’s an old Nickelodeon show. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: But I was like, “Why are you watching Angela Anaconda?” 

Christine: I mean– 

Em: I was– Sorry. 

Christine: –I might be now, honestly. 

Em: Angela Ballerina? 

Christine: Angelina Ba– It’s like– 

Em: Angelina Ballerina. What– 

Christine: –one season of a show that Leona discovered from like 2005 with like terrible animation. It’s like that early like creepy stop-motion type– 

Em: Bitch, that’s Angela Anaconda. That’s exact– That– 

Christine: No. Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh. Same– 

Em: Maybe– 

Christine: –vibe maybe. 

Em: –they’re the same. They’re the same. You show Leona Ange– A– you show her that one, she’ll– she might have a nightmare. 

Christine: Uh, pr– Most likely. I– I’m gonna have a nightmare. Uh– 

Em: You remember like all the weird shows like on KaBlamI? 

Christine: Yeah. Although– 

Em: It was one of those shows. 

Christine: –it does feel kind of like a fever dream a little bit. Um– 

Em: Sorry. I didn’t– I was like, “That’s– I’ve never heard that name in years.” 

Christine: No, as– And you didn’t hear it today either. 

Em: [laughs] Okay, I heard it in my head. 

Christine: [laughs] Um, okay. Stephanie Harlowe, sorry. So that, uh– Very well-known YouTuber, but she did a three-part, and she, she’s like my kind of gal. She goes into Newspapers.com and like pulls the like articles and this like “I found what he was eating,” you know, like, like– 

Em: Love, love. 

Christine: She’s the one who’s like giving me the inspiration for all these little tidbits. But so, the writing is just fucking annoying is what I’ll say. Okay, here is what it says. “I entered the house to find the melted dessert and remnants on plates on the table. It was some sort of–“ [chuckles] This bit– Oh! I remember this chick. 

Em: Told you. I’m sorry. I know we’re in the middle of a dark thing. I just sent Christine a picture of Angela Anaconda so I wouldn’t forget later, but– 

Christine: I– It really unlocked– 

Em: Yes, that’s– 

Christine: I’m so sorry. It just unlocked something. She like has a freckly face. I remember her. 

Em: She’s literally black and white, but the rest of her is not. 

Christine: Yeah, but– Yeah. Anyway, weird. 

Em: Sh– Sorry. Sorry, go ahead. 

Christine: So on plates on the table, graham cracker crust. Here we go. Oh. “It was some sort of fruit pudding pie in a graham cracker crust. It looked pretty good, as all of my wife’s desserts were, but smelled horrible. Turns out it was a Benadryl pudding pie.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Okay. Megan, he claimed, calmly confessed to him that she had “released the children’s souls.” According to the letter, Tony was so overcome he ran to the bathroom and vomited. Megan then, in Tony’s telling, proceeded to kill herself in front of him. 

Em: Hm? 

Christine: He said she stabbed herself in the abdomen and drank a bottle of Benadryl as he watched, horrified, then asked him to suffocate her. 

Em: Oh, shut up. 

Christine: And then – it gets so much worse – when he couldn’t or wouldn’t suffocate her, he claims she told him, “I finally found something you suck at.” 

Em: Wow. Bitches, right? I– Like I– How did he– 

Christine: Those nagging wives. 

Em: How did he find a way to turn his murder into him being a victim? That’s incredible. That’s– 

Christine: It’s incredible. It’s– 

Em: Or his murdering somebody as him the victim. 

Christine: It’s like remarkable– 

Em: Like and– 

Christine: –that he thinks this is gonna work. 

Em: “And then I killed her, and then she was still criticizing me.” Um, or “then I tried to kill her–“ 

Christine: “In her final–“ 

Em: “–and I still wasn’t good enough.” 

Christine: “Her last words–“ Yeah, it, it’s, it’s– It goes on. 

Em: What did he, what did he think– Did he think someone was gonna go, “Man, that’s tough.” 

Christine: “poor guy.” 

Em: “I can’t believe she would say that to you.” 

Christine: 100%. 100%. He wanted his dad to be like, “Oh, I know how that feels,” you know. 

Em: I wonder if he’s just taken lines right out of his dad’s playbook. Like– 

Christine: [sighs] Could very well be, could very well be. Mm, the letter goes on to describe how Tony, left alone with the bodies of his family, arranged the scene. He admitted that he wanted the children to be “comfortable” in the afterlife, and so he laid them all side by side in blankets, um, covered them, and put rosary beads in their hands. He wrote it like as if this was like a very compassionate thing. I think this is somebody who doesn’t really understand– 

Em: You’re totally right. 

Christine: –what compassion is. So he’s like trying to paint this weird like ritual picture, um, to impress people. 

Em: It– I– I totally– I have a belief that, um, narcissists think compassion is people sympathizing for them. Like that they think compassion is people having compassion for them– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –not external compassion. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: And it feels like he’s– 

Christine: Now, that’s interesting. 

Em: He feels like he’s wr– It feels like he’s writing it in a way where he hopes people have compassion for him– 

Christine: Ye– 

Em: –but he would define it as he’s being compassionate to another person. 

Christine: Interesting. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it totally fits because must be hard to be this guy. His whole family’s dead. Isn’t that horrible? 

Em: Yeah. He’d be like, “What? I’m doing the right things and you should feel bad for me.” And it’s like, “No, that’s not how this works.” [chuckles] 

Christine: “I fixed the deck by myself a few months ago.” What– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: What the fuck? Like, he says shit like that. He’s like, “I did most of the work myself, and it was really heavy.” And it’s like, okay? 

Em: It’s just– It’s wild to hear him out loud saying things that he thinks are, are the– Like at the end, at the end what he’s hoping for people’ll pat him on the back. It’s like, well– 

Christine: I think he– Yeah. Yes. He wants to look like the victim. 

Em: Gross. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: You could have been a victim in so many other ways that didn’t involve killing somebody, and then people would have like tolerated you, you know? [chuckles] Like– 

Christine: Exactly. And it’s like you, you already said you did this. It’s not like everybody’s like, “Oh, we think he di–“ He literally said, “Oh, yeah. I killed them all.” Okay. Um, so now he’s saying, “No, I didn’t kill any of them. I just showed up, and they were dead, and then I put them in a lovely position on the floor to make them comfortable.” Okay. He added, “If I was there that night, this never would have happened, hence the self-blame and self-condemnation–” He says things like “hence,” you know. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: It's annoying. “–hence the self-blame and self-condemnation, but because I was being so selfish, I have lost everything near and dear to me.” [scoffs] “And when I leave here in a couple months–“ Yeah, fat chance. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: “When I leave here in a couple months, I will be leaving homeless and without clothes.” 

Em: [chuckles] Okay, I’m fine with that. 

Christine: This is like a man whose three children were just murdered in cold blood allegedly by his wife. Like it– 

Em: It feels like people we know in our lives that are narcissists. It feels– 

Christine: Where it’s like, “You are missing the plot point. Like you’re in a totally different book.” Yeah. 

Em: It, it’s crazy the, the tunnel vision of trying to desperately make it about him, but like how do you miss the– 

Christine: It’s tunnel vision. 

Em: –much bigger plot point here? 

Christine: ’Cause you’re not even like able to pull out enough to go, “that doesn’t look very good,” even if, you know– 

Em: It’s like– Yeah. 

Christine: You're spir– Yeah. He’s losing it. So he’s just like, “Wah, so sad. Um, because I was so selfish falling asleep in the car before my wife’s 4 am physical therapy ’cause I was such a good dad the day before. That’s why all this happened.” 

Em: Yeah, ’cause like– Oh my god. 

Christine: It’s like pathetic. Um, above all else, Tony proclaimed to his father, “I am–“ not 100, not 1,000. “I am 10,000% innocent.” 

Em: I’m sorry. If you’re– Okay. 

Christine: It’s– Yeah. 

Em: Okay. Sure. 

Christine: It’s deeply– Immediately, I’m like, “Oh, so you did it.” 

Em: Yeah. Right. It’s no better than saying you’re 100% guilt-free. It’s– 

Christine: Correct. 

Em: It, it’s just now we’re just getting elaborate for no reason. 

Christine: Thou doth protest too much, my friend. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: He says, “I am 10,000% innocent of all these preposterous charges.” 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: Whenever someone says “preposterous,” I’m like, “You’re bullshitting me. I know you are.” 

Em: I have never heard anybody actually s– or like– 

Christine: [in a dramatic voice] “Preposterous charges against me. It’s preposterous.” 

Em: Yeah. If someone said that, I think I– the, the conversation would shift quickly into a different one where I’m going, “Why the fuck are we talking like that?” 

Christine: “Why are we doing this? What’s going on?” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “I’m reading between the lines. What’s going on?” Yeah. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: He insisted that the only reason he hadn’t gone public with the true story is that his high-powered lawyers advised him not to talk. By the way, he had a public defender, which is fine, but don’t say your “high-powered lawyers,” which he said, by the way, were the best in the state. Like it’s giving like Donald Trump craziness, you know? 

Em: 1,000%. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: It’s like, “Oh, we’ve got the–“ 

Christine: He’s like, “These are the best in the state.” 

Em: “We have the best, absolutely the best.” 

Christine: This is the public defender that you were assigned. Like this is not even like someone you picked. “So you guys, I’m 10,000%–“ 

Em: “I will say, I, I’m 10,000% not– not guilty.” Is that what it is? ’Cause that sounds– 

Christine: Uh-huh, uh, innocent. 

Em: That s– Sounds exactly like something someone else would say about some files. 

Christine: Doesn't it? 10,000%. And that’s mathematically accurate. 

Em: He should say like 58,000 or however many times he was mentioned in the files. 

Christine: Ah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 48,000 more times than Jesus in the Bible. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Uh, so anyway, uh, his high-powered attorneys said, “Don’t tell the real story.” Okay. Um, but he added, once he was exonerated very soon, [scoffs] he planned to sue everyone involved. [chuckles] Again, this is striking– 

Em: Who else does that sound like? [laughs] 

Christine: –a lot of similarities. [laughs] Um, the letter was all over the place. Of course, he described how much work he’d put into home renovation projects with like, with like no thanks for it was the vibe. Like, “I did so much for this family and this house.” And, um, he described his wife as nagging, as burdensome. He didn’t say those words, but he basically described that she was like always up his ass, like giving him a hard time. 

Em: He, he said it pretty well when he was like, “She wouldn’t– I choked her to– I tried to choke her to death, and she said that wasn’t good enough.” 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Exactly. I mean, that’s like all you need to know. Um, exactly. Uh– Oh, it gets worse, actually, so hold on. Um, [chuckles] he, he though, of course, described himself as a devoted husband. He did everything. He always obeyed his wife, and that was kind of his whole thing. Um, he said he obeyed her at every turn, despite the fact that her illness had weakened her to the point that she experienced the “loss of all female features.” 

Em: Oh, shut the fuck up. 

Christine: Like he basically was like, “She’s too skinny for me to even ha– like wanna fuck. So why would–“ 

Em: Ew. 

Christine: “But look at me. I’m still giving her physical therapy appointments.” Fuck you. 

Em: Also I love that– I, I don’t– have never seen a picture of this man. I know enough about him to know that however he looks– 

Christine: Oh, please. Yeah. 

Em: –is nothing like how that woman looked, I’ll tell you. 

Christine: Yeah, please. 

Em: I bet– 

Christine: Sit the fuck– Look in a mirror and sit the fuck down. 

Em: She– You never– Ugh, god. 

Christine: I’m so glad you said that because also, apparently, this is a side note that only Stephanie Harlowe talked about, and I was like, “Holy shit.” Apparently, his dad is like this total health nut, right? And so when, um, he’s writing to his dad and he had gained like a significant amount of weight (Tony had and was diagnosed with diabetes), he writes in this letter like, “I finally have my six-pack back.” and it’s like, “Bullshit.” Like he’s so transparent. You just want daddy to like feel bad for you, you know? And he’s like, “I’m eating so much protein, and I’m doing pull-ups, and I got my six-pack.” And it’s like, what are you doing? You’re eating Peanut M&M’s– 

Em: All you had to say– 

Christine: “–next to your dead family, you fuck.” Like, shut up. 

Em: Yeah. And also all I had to hear was “my dad was a health nut,” and I’m immediately analyzing like, “oh, so you’re–“ First of all, didn’t have to tell me Dad was a little controlling when he has already murdered Mom, you know? 

Christine: Mm. Yeah, oops. Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Whoopsies. Um– 

Christine: But I guess, I guess– 

Em: Fascinating. 

Christine: –that’s also another, another hard part of your life. Yeah. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: Um, so yeah, he goes, “Oh no, she lost all her female features.” [makes a retching sound] Okay. Um, he also claimed he was starting a nonprofit in honor of his family. Okay. 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: Um, he said he was working on a book. Okay. This is like within– This is like when he’s first in prison. This is like years ago. Like this is not– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –like recent. He’s already writing a book like fucking however many years ago. Um, he has a list of lawsuits for when he gets out of here. Uh-huh. Um, so Bob received this letter and apparently immediately gave it to his attorney and was like, “What the fuck? [laughs] Like this is my son’s letter.” Um, at one point his dad, like I said, even said that his son’s story was giving him bad press. And then I just wrote “LOL” in big letters. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [chuckles] Um, by July 2020, within weeks, the Orlando Sentinel had obtained a copy of the entire letter and published a damning article revealing its contents, became front page news in the true crime world. Uh, headlines blared things like, “Celebration Dad Blames Slain Wife for Family’s Murders in Jailhouse Letter,” uh, just like very sensational. People magazine, NBC News, uh, they’re all picking up on it. Um, everyone is like, “This is insane. Like does he expect us to believe this? Like th– what is going on?” 

Em: I wonder what he was telling like his close personal friends that I’m sure he had. Like what is he– Is he like, “Wow, look at me go”? 

Christine: He– The only person I think he really spoke candidly with was his sister on the phone and then his dad in this letter. And on the phone, he definitely painted it as like, “Man, I just don’t know. I don’t remember anything from the month of December, but Megan, you know, she’s just so unwell. I just don’t even know what’s going on. And like I’m just so devoted.” 

Em: “I don’t remember anything except my– except how horrible my wife was.” 

Christine: “and how bad that Benadryl pie smelled.” Like fuck you. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah, that’s a great point. 

Christine: [sighs] S– You remember that pretty darn well and how much basketball you played with your son. Like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: Yeah. You remember all five minutes of that. 

Christine: Of how good of a dad you were, yeah. Due to the pandemic, other delays, it was not until more than two years later in April 2022 that Anthony’s trial took place. In the interim, Florida prosecutors decided not to seek the death penalty, um, because it simplified the trial and if convicted, Tony would receive life in prison automatically. Um, opening statements began April 11, 2022 in a Kissimmee courtroom. The prosecution presented their theory that Tony Todt killed his family to maintain control as his own life spiraled out of control. Assistant State Attorney Danielle Pinnell painted a picture of a man overwhelmed by debt and disgrace who decided to commit an “extended suicide,” taking his loved ones with him. Uh, the prosecution leaned into Tony’s own words from his confession, which was taped and he’d had his rights read to him. It’s not like– Like he knew what was happening. Whatever. Okay. Um– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –in his confession, they quoted a line that he’d said to detectives that night that parents, quote, “bring their children into this world, and they get to decide when they leave.” 

Em: [under their breath] Oh… 

Christine: He said that. 

Em: Say it again slowly? 

Christine: “Parents bring their children into this world, and they get to decide when they leave.” 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: They argued that Tony’s motive boiled down to control and possibly warped love. Like maybe he was like, “I don’t want to punish them,” but I think it’s more just like a shame spiral and you know, all sorts of other things. Um, they did acknowledge that his motive wasn’t crystal clear, but they said, “We don’t really actually need to prove the motive. We just need to prove that he fucking did this. And he did. Um, we have a confession. We have physical forensics. We have a letter blaming Megan, which like is clearly a hail mary 180 situation.” The defense, meanwhile, uh, was very obvious in their cross-examinations, basically saying like, “There, there there’s doubt. There’s a little doubt. [chuckles] We don’t know who made a Benadryl pie, could have been Megan.” You know, like just a lot of, um, trying to poke holes. 

Em: I– 

Christine: ’Cause what else are they gonna do? 

Em: I guess if their argument is like, “Well, we’re just trying to prove that you could be innocent–“ 

Christine: Right. 

Em: “–not that you’re not guilty or– not that you’re not guilty or guilty, just that you could be innocent,” I guess. 

Christine: And he’s like, “But–“And he’s like, “But, but 10,000%,” right? 10,000%, not any less than that. [chuckles] 

Em: Right. Right, right, right, right, right. 

Christine: Um, yeah. The– They told the jury there were no eyewitnesses, so there’s like no way to know who really committed the murders. Um– 

Em: Of course. 

Christine: Yeah, of course. And so they also said like, “Oh, this confession was sort of like coerced because he fell down the stairs and was on Benadryl, um, and he doesn’t even remember it.” Mm-hmm. Uh, but they were not really allowed to argue that. They were like, “You can’t argue that he had like mental health stuff. Like we’ve already kind of–“ 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: “That’s just not– It’s not allowed in this trial.” Uh, so instead, they doubled down on the storyline that Megan did all of it alone as the villain– evil villain. 

Em: Love that they had options. [chuckles] 

Christine: I know, love that for them. Wow. 

Em: That’s totally what an innocent person does. 

Christine: Choose your own adventure. Uh, several things were not allowed to be addressed during the trial. The prosecution was not allowed to bring up Tony’s insurance fraud case, which is fair ’cause it’s probably like a separate case happening with the FBI. The prosecution is not allowed to bring up Tony’s insurance fraud case, his past mental health issues, or the fact, fun fact, that in German, the word “Todt” means “dead.” 

Em: W– You know what? 

Christine: Fun, fun fact for you. 

Em: I love that even if we couldn’t talk about it then, we talked about it now. 

Christine: Uh– 

Em: You know? 

Christine: –precisely. And I want to add like I looked at– I saw the name Todt Family Murders, and I went, “The Dead Family Murders? What kind of fucking wild-a–“ And then I found out that his dad, also named Todt, killed hi– tried, tried to kill his wife. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: I’m like– 

Em: What are the odds? 

Christine: –what is going on with this fucking family? Todt, it means dead. It’s like, it’s like death. 

Em: What are the odds? 

Christine: It’s creepy. So anyway, the prosecution rested its case in three days. They presented crime scene photos, autopsy reports, testimony from a dozen witnesses, including the folks who picked him up at the house to begin with. Then the defense began their side. They called one witness: Tony himself. High-risk move, but also he insisted, of course he did, on telling his story on the stand. So they put him on the stand. Uh, he [chuckles] wore a suit and glasses. He had lost a lot of weight. He was 46 year old– years old now. He had a six-pack – just kidding. Um– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I don’t know that, but I’m sure he’d tell you he did. He spoke directly to the jurors, often through tears, uh, in what appeared to be an emotional plea. He basically rehashed his 27-page letter with more content, more detail. 

Em: ‘kay. 

Christine: Lord help us all. 

Em: 27 wasn’t enough? 

Christine: No, no, no. Megan was the true villain, of course. She was also sick and delusional. Um, he described how her lifelong health issues had plunged her into despair and radical beliefs. He testified that she had become grossed in a– engrossed in a “Hinduism-based” belief system with a focus on– 

Em: Ew! 

Christine: I know. Yuck. [chuckles] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –with a focus on reincarnation and shedding bad karma. Like how ironic. Like, okay, you couldn’t have picked something other than like Buddhism, the most like rela– 

Em: I know. 

Christine: –like peaceful [chuckles] fucking religion in the world? Okay. 

Em: It’s like, “God, she just believed in being radically kind.” Like what? 

Christine: “and karma.” [laughs] Yeah, exactly. You’re fucked in that case. Um, she started watching doomsday (this is all according to him)– started watching doomsday videos that there was this imminent apocalypse. And people are like, “Oh my god, COVID was coming up.” But it’s like, yeah, but he’s halfway through– He’s in 2022. He can make this up and say she knew about an impending– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: Nobody is saying that except him. So I don’t find that to be like very impressive. 

Em: It’s certainly not his best lie that I’ve heard so far. 

Christine: No, no, no. So this is what he says happened. Between December 14 and 18 (he does not know the exact date, allegedly), um, he returned home from evening, uh, from looking– one evening from looking for Zoe’s favorite necklace, um, to find Megan eerily calm. She told them he– she had killed their children. He said he threw up. He ran to find his kids. Um, he said, [in a weepy voice] “it’s the most horrible day of my life.” And then he said– 

Em: [scoffs] 

Christine: –he returned to the primary bedroom, saw Megan standing by the bed with a knife, and, out of a horror movie, she stabbed herself in the stomach, um, and saying– and said she wanted to join the kids in death. Okay. Um– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: He said he yelled for help out a window but did not leave the house, um, because– 

Em: Or– But he did go to Dick’s. 

Christine: Yeah. When they were all dead, he’d started to go to– He went to Starbucks too, this fuckhead. 

Em: Right. Couldn’t, couldn’t ask for help then. 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Em: Couldn’t pick up a fucking phone. Couldn’t– 

Christine: No. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Well, so here’s the thing. She had hidden their cell phones is the story. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: And he’s like, “I couldn’t call anyone ’cause she hid my cell phone.” And he said his best chance was to get her to tell him where the phones were rather than leaving her alone. Uh, he said, “if I left her, I thought she was going to die. I thought the best chance was for me to tell her where– for her to tell me where the phones were.” Um, he said during the last moments of her life, she gave him a dramatic final speech – ’cause of course she did. 

Em: Oh, ’cause she has the ability to speak currently. Okay. 

Christine: Stabbing herself in the stomach and drinking a bottle of Benadryl, okay. So she told him she wanted to die to be with the kids and then expired right in front of him. Um, [sighs] okay. And he then tried to explain away the next part, which was living with the bodies for weeks. He said after Megan died, he was essentially paralyzed by grief and trauma. He moved the children’s bodies to clean them up. He admitted he tried to kill himself. And here, he went into a list of all his failed suicide attempts. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, he said, instead of trying to die out of guilt, uh, he actually was trying to die out of duty to join his family. Okay. 

Em: Oh, his duty. Oh, I l– Remember when he was a good dad? His duty to be a dad for five seconds– 

Christine: That’s, that’s right. 

Em: –’cause they played basketball? 

Christine: And th– 

Em: But he can be a good man and end it all? What? 

Christine: You know, they love to be martyrs, these guys. They love to be martyrs. It’s like– 

Em: Nothing he loves more. 

Christine: –fucking annoying. Um, and he said he “deserved to die” for not stopping Megan from her atrocious acts. Okay. 

Em: [groans, sighing] 

Christine: Tony said he tried to buy a gun but was told there’s a three-day waiting period, but I’m like, you had two weeks, but whatever. Okay. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: So he said there’s a waiting period, so instead he tried to overdose on Benadryl a few times. He put zip ties around his neck, allegedly, to hang himself from a doorknob. That didn’t work. Um, he even recounted buying a pellet gun, which is where I mentioned the receipt with the Peanut M&M’s. Um, he, of course– That didn’t work ’cause it isn’t necessarily lethal. Um– 

Em: So he bought the pellet gun to harm himself but also made sure to get a snack before he ever did– 

Christine: That’s exactly it. And then ate the– Yeah, e-exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: And a, and a fucking caramel macchiato. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: God dammit. 

Em: Yeah. He’s like, “But I’ll get to the pellet gun eventually.” 

Christine: Yeah. [sighs] That’s– 

Em: “I feel really– I’m– I need to emotionally eat first because I just–“ 

Christine: “I’m hungry,” yeah. 

Em: “–my duty– I feel so bad. I failed at my duty.” 

Christine: Jesus. Finally, he slashed at himself with a knife, he says. But in his words, he “chickened out” and didn’t pierce deeply enough. 

Em: Well, where’s the fucking s– Where’s the cut? I want to see a cut line. 

Christine: E– I– No clue. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: No clue. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, he’s clearly trying to garner sympathy as we’ve sensed. Um, he had two weeks alone, and he is allegedly saying that, uh, they’re trying to pin him for something he would never do. He’s just a dutiful husband, and that’s his only sin. Okay. Blah, blah, blah. Uh, so crucially, also he addressed the elephant in the room, which was his confession. And he said, “Oh, I don’t remember that at all because I had taken Benadryl. I was traumatized, and I fell down the stairs. Um, and I was– Actually, what I was doing is I was covering for my wife ’cause I wanted to take responsibility.” 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: “’Cause she, she did this horrible thing, and I–“ 

Em: Of course, of course. 

Christine: “–as th– as a patriarch of the family, I wanted to, to defend her, to protect her." Mm-hmm. 

Em: I– Sometimes I would love– If, if anyone knows a judge, can you tell them to write into the comments ’cause I’m so curious how they– They have to take a class in law school how, how to keep a straight face. Like– 

Christine: Good point. 

Em: Because if I were this jud– I would be Judge Judy all over this. I’d be like, “Girl.” 

Christine: “Girl.” 

Em: “Like you cannot fucking think I believe you. Like–“ 

Christine: I’d be like, “pah!” like every five seconds. 

Em: Yes. I’d be goose honking. I’d be like, “You are so stupid.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Like I don’t know how you stay partial– 

Christine: Like, “How stupid do you think I am?” 

Em: –or impartial. 

Christine: So the cross- examination was very intense. Um, Danielle Pinnell, she played segments of Tony’s confession tape and said, “Is this your voice?” And he was like, “Yes.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: And it said, “I suffocated my four-year-old daughter.” I mean, it’s like how are you gonna– 

Em: Hello? 

Christine: Hello? Um, he plainly describes murdering his kids. Pretty chill. Um, Pinnell asked him to explain how he could recall like all the details of what happened but not his, uh, confession, and he basically said, “I was just trying to protect my wife’s honor probably–“ 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: “–but I don’t remember.” Um, unfortunately, there was evidence at the scene that there was a struggle between Tony and Alek, which is really sad because– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –they think he woke up and fought back. Um, there were bruises– 

Em: Oh! 

Christine: –and scratch marks on him. Um, and he was the oldest, and he was like the shy one. It just made me really sa– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: It made me really sad. Um, [sighs] so April 14, 2022, both sides delivered closing arguments. The jury deliberated several hours, and despite some disagreement, they reached a unanimous decision. Uh, when they announced it, Tony basically just shook his head and said “no” every time: um, guilty of first-degree murder in the death of Megan, Alek, Tyler, Zoe, and Breezy, the family dog. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Tony was just like, “Ugh, no. I didn’t do this.” Uh, meanwhile, Megan’s family wept, uh, and, and hugged each other out of relief and sorrow. Uh, when given a chance to speak, Tony said, “No, thanks.” Just kidding. He said, “Absolutely.” And he got up there to talk, and his lawyer had to try and get him to sit down two times because he talked for so long about just like– 

Em: I, I bet. 

Christine: –how he didn’t do this. 

Em: I mean, he wrote a 27-page letter. He– I can’t imagine speaking goes any shorter. 

Christine: A podium? Give that man a podium? Yeah. Um– 

Em: Please. I– They were like, “We– You–“ They had to probably hold him down under duress and be like, “Stop talking.” 

Christine: “We’ve made a huge mistake. Yeah, this is enough.” His lawyer really had to like pull him down. Um, the judge, actually, now that you mention it, told Tony, “You are a destroyer of worlds.” 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: Yeah. He’s not fucking happy with him. Um, he said he– “you’ve destroyed not just one world, but four,” those of his wife and three kids, and in the process devastated every relative and friend who loved them. He then sentenced him to the four murder counts: life in prison without the possibility of parole plus an additional 365 days in county jail for animal cruelty. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: In the aftermath, he was sent to, uh, Florida Department of Corrections. He– As of mid-2022, he’s incarcerated at the Santa Rosa Correctional Institution of Milton, Florida. Um, they appealed, which is pretty standard in a murder conviction. Uh, and yeah, he sued– In 2024, he sued, um, the Sheriff’s Office for releasing his letter, his 27-page letter, but they were like, “Well, you– It’s jail mail. Like it’s monitored.” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Like you can’t, you can’t do that. It’s j– Okay.” They dismissed it. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, in the end, um, it’s just, just a horrible, horrible story. Um, Megan, 42, uh, loving mother, friend, sister. Aleksander Todt, 13, shy, honor roll student, budding musician who loved history and soccer. Tyler, 11, the family comedian who played folk guitar and was kind to all his neighbors. Zoe, 4 years old, who liked to play princess and dance and– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –had her brothers wrapped around her finger. And, of course, Breezy, the little white dog. It’s just [sighs] the whole family just like extinguished in one night. I mean, it’s just– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –unreal. It’s unreal. Um, so that’s the story of the Todt Family Murders. And, uh– Whoo. [sighs] I got goosebumps. 

Em: [sighs] Um, I do appreciate when you do the, the stories where it’s just like so beyond an absolute narcissist. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, I don’t know why. It just– 

Christine: There's no question. 

Em: No question. And not that like this is at all like a laughable topic, but it, it like it brings some sort of levity to it because it’s just like, “This is so ridiculous. Like there’s–“ 

Christine: It's absurd. It’s like, “You’ve done something so horrible. You can’t pretend like we’re– Like we’re not stupid. Like people are not that stupid. Like you’re a monster.” 

Em: Yeah, yeah. Um– 

Christine: “Can’t talk your way out of this one.” 

Em: I like the two-parters, Christine. You should keep that going. 

Christine: Yeah, that one really, uh, kicked my ass. That first day when I was like, “I can’t do this, Em.” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “I can’t. [chuckles] I can’t.” 

Em: Maybe, maybe you shouldn’t do them, never mind. [laughs] 

Christine: No, no, no. It was, it was good. It was like really fascinating. And I feel like, um, some of these cases just like you could go down 800,000 rabbit holes and just like– [chuckles] 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –never come up for air. So um, yeah, that was a doozy. But, um, thank you for listening, everyone. This’s been a long episode. I apologize. Um, I was doing my interrupt– You know, the ghost even told me to stop interrupting. [laughs] 

Em: No, I, I really feel like I made this episode about me a few times. I feel like my– the beginning I talked quite a lot, so. 

Christine: Oh, well, god forbid we make our episodes about us. 

Em: [sighs] Well, uh, thank you, everybody. We will see you– Bye? 

Christine: Sorry, that was an accident. [laughs] I don’t know what I did. 

Em: –next– 

Christine: I was trying to minimize the full screen, and I think I minimized myself. [chuckles] 

Em: Christine is out of here. 

Christine: Bye! [laughs] 

Em: [chuckles] So we’ll see you next week. And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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