E472 Milkshake Tears and a Lego Hair Wig

TOPICS: SCRIM THE DOG, THE TURPIN FAMILY

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It’s episode 472 and we’re crying over milkshakes! This week Em covers the wild lore of Scrim the dog from New Orleans aka the Houdini dog. Then Christine revisits an old case covered back in Episode 57 to bring us the updates - the Turpin family. And is that Christine falling asleep again on the podcast? …and that’s why we drink!

Photo Links:
Scrim at the City Council Meeting
Scrim’s Jump Video
Turpin Family Photos

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Transcript

[Rotating ads vary, for a full list of current podcast sponsors visit andthatswhywedrink.com/sponsors]

[intro music] 

Em: [slurps through straw and groans] God, I love this fucking drink. [chuckles] 

Christine: [chuckles] Welcome to And That’s Why We Drink, I guess. What is that– What is the drink? Is it still your usual? 

Em: I’m still on my, my “stawblem.” 99 strawblems. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I’m telling you, I can’t get enough of this. It’s– Like Shake Shack, whoever you are– Oh, wait a minute. Actually, I have the most And That’s Why We Drink reason why I drink, and Shake Shack is involved. And this is not, um, a sponsor, by the way, but– 

Christine: Okay. I’m settling in. 

Em: Shake Shack, if you’re listening– if someone works at Shake Shack, I need you to bring this to the top. I don’t know what the fuck– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –they thought they were doing recently– 

Christine: Uh-huh? 

Em: –but they decided to put their whole chest into their goddamn menu. Because– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –I don’t– Uh, the– Well, I’m about to ruin our sponsorship here. The food I don’t totally care for, but the drinks [laughs]– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –the drinks really get me going. They are, um– 

Christine: The non-existent partnership we invented for two seconds and then immediately squashed. 

Em: [chuckles] They were listening, like ready to sign the check, and then they threw it in the trash. They went, “Never mind.” Um– 

Christine: I don’t think I’ve ever even eaten at Shake Shack. Like, I’m totally out of the loop. 

Em: This– Oh, okay. So one of the reasons that I do love them: they are open until like 1 in the morning, and, you know, I need my fix– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –when I’m doing my notes late at night. But this strawberry lemonade really has such a chokehold on me. It’s insane. And then they have milkshakes, which they actually have one of my favorite milkshakes, which is the– They– It’s confusing because they have a black and white milkshake and they have a chocolate and vanilla milkshake. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: Get the chocolate and vanilla milkshake. That’s the one, by the way. 

Christine: [sighs] I do love a milkshake. 

Em: However, the reason I drink– I’ve never had a more, since like episode one, milkshake reason why I drink is because they came out with a Valentine’s Day milkshake that has rocked my shit. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And I’m so mad I was, I was introduced to her because she’s gonna leave. She’s fleeting. 

Christine: Oh, isn’t that the best though? 

Em: Oh my g– 

Christine: What is it? 

Em: Like water– Like I’m like tearing up. 

Christine: Holy shit. 

Em: [laughs] I love it so much. I love it so much. 

Christine: Okay, alright. We’re not fucking around here anymore, people. 

Em: [laughs] I don’t know what’s wrong with me. Actually, I– It wasn’t even about– I don’t know what it was. I think the light hit my eye. But that was perfect acting, wasn’t it? 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Um– 

Christine: You were just like overcome. [laughs] 

Em: Really came at the right moment. Thanks, sunlight. Um, but no, I– 

Christine: Now I’m gonna cry because I cry when other people cry. What’s happening? 

Em: [laughs] Ohh, I don’t know what’s going on. I love her. They– I– Let me go– Hang on. I gotta go find what this– [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] Jesus Christ, no one’s ever reacted this way about loving me. I’m starting to feel– 

Em: [laughs] [searching online] Shake Shack Valentine’s Day menu. 

Christine: –inadequate. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] So it’s– Okay. It’s their True Love milkshake. It’s called True Love. 

Christine: [laughs] Oh, no wonder you’re crying. [laughs] You’re really in, you’re really in it. Okay. 

Em: [laughs] And she’s mine, and she’s not gonna be here forever. Um– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –I– whoever is working for Shake Shack and is listening to this, you need to bring this to the top immediately because they need to keep this as a permanent staple. They literally– You know what magic shell is? That like it like hardens, the chocolate? 

Christine: Yes, I love it. 

Em: They literally– Not like how like a coffee shop will like drizzle little caramel– Like they literally coat the whole thing so the cup looks brown– 

Christine: No… 

Em: –and then they put a milkshake in it so it stays hard, and then as you drink the milkshake, it slowly falls into the milkshake, and so you can like eat chunks of the hard chocolate. 

Christine: That sounds so good. [laughs] 

Em: And it’s, and it’s a strawberry kind of milk– So it’s like chocolate-covered strawberries for like the Valentine’s Day element. 

Christine: Okay, I actually have currently a s– chocolate-covered strawberry iced coffee because, uh, Blaise bought chocolate-covered strawberry coffee creamer, and I put it in some, uh, like cold brew, and it’s so good. And I was gonna say it made me think of you. 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: And now I know you have the same– Oh my gosh, what a, what a season of life. 

Em: I l– I can’t– And everybody– anybody who knows me knows that chocolate strawberries– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –they’re not even romantic to me. That’s just– That’s the, that’s the endgame. That’s the endgame food right there. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. [laughs] 

Em: Um, that’s a death row food for me. And– 

Christine: You really didn’t think it was, um, romantic, but like you’re literally crying over it. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: So maybe it was more romantic– 

Em: I mean– 

Christine: –than you thought. [laughs] 

Em: I– There’s, there’s no one who yearns for this milkshake the– Like I want to be yearned the way I yearn for this milkshake. Allison– 

Christine: I mean, me too. 

Em: –get it together. 

Christine: Seriously. Like after seeing your face, I’m like, “Damn, I feel inadequate compared to this fucking milkshake.” 

Em: Allison’s literally never cried over me. And I’m– Here I am at– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –in the morning about a milkshake. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: [sighs] Christine, if you– I’m not– I’m literally not– If you’re ever gonna have a milkshake, you have to have this one. It’s so good. 

Christine: I do– Okay. I do love a milkshake. Like every few months, I’m like, “I need a milkshake today.” So maybe that’ll be my next one. I’m sure there’s one around here somewhere. 

Em: We also need a paycheck because I just really gave Shake Shack the deal of an o– like the deal of a lifetime. That was incredible. That was– 

Christine: [chuckles] The deal of a lifeti– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Oh, oh, oh. On the show, you mean? Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. I was like, we– No one, no one even– No one paid us, but like wow, you oughta because I’ll never speak so highly about a, a milkshake in my entire life. They really– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –knew what they were doing with that. It was so good. 

Christine: Tell them that And That’s Why We Drink sent you, and they’re gonna be like, “What?” 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “What the fuck does that mean? We don’t care.” 

Em: Like we’re a mafioso, and we’re like– 

Christine: Right. [chuckles] 

Em: –“They’ll know what it means.” Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yes, E– [chuckles] “Em sent m– Em sent me.” 

Em: [sighs] I can’t wait to drink it again. And, by the way, I think I’m the only person on earth who ever says this, but one of my other favorite foods is chocolate pudding. They have a chocolate pudding milkshake right now. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: What is going on over there? It’s like they heard my– 

Christine: I told you– 

Em: It’s like they read my diary– 

Christine: You know what– 

Em: –and went, “Okay, we got it. We’re on it.” 

Christine: They kind of did, I think. ’Cause you know what I say, perception creates reality. You want to live in a world with pudding milkshakes? Here you go. 

Em: It’s like lucky girl syndrome. It’s like I’m so lucky– 

Christine: Yes! 

Em: –that there could be one of those out there, and then all of them showed up at 1 in the morning– 

Christine: That’s right. That’s– 

Em: –when I needed it most. Oh my god. 

Christine: That’s what happens, man. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: It’s beautiful. 

Em: The end. That’s why I drink. 

Christine: Wow, I’m really impressed. I’m happy for you. 

Em: Why do you drink? 

Christine: I’m happy for you. Why do I drink? Um, well– Oh! I know why I drink. ’Cause I, I sold out twi– I was so honored and, and thrilled. I sold out twice of the, uh, “Abolish ICE” Little Devil stickers. And because I wasn’t on camera last time, I can just show it here. I think I have one on here. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Maybe I don’t. 

Em: Oh, yeah. We weren’t on camera. Right. 

Christine: We were not on camera. Oops. Um, and I was so impressed because like I– or surprised, like pleasantly surprised, ’cause I sold out, and then I sold out again. And I was like, “I gotta close this damn store bef– ’Cause I’m– I don’t have enough.” [chuckles] And so, um– Oh, here’s the little sticky guy if, if you’re watching and you haven’t seen it yet. 

[Christine holds up her iPad with her Abolish Ice sticker on the case on the back. “Abolish” arcs in red capital letters at the top of the sticker with Hot Stuff the Little Devil under it. He sits on a melting ice cube, glaring with his hands clenched into fists and steam coming out of his pointy ears. The word “ICE” is next to him on the right in blue capital letters, stylized to look like they’re melting.] 

Christine: Um, but I– So I, I sold like I think like 400 of them, and all the proceeds are going to the National Immigrant, uh, Justice Center. And I’m really excited, and I’m like– Wow, I feel very, uh, thankful for everybody who bought a sticker. And, um, maybe I will restock them. I’m not sure yet, but, uh, [chuckles] it’s– 

Em: Very cool. 

Christine: Oh, this is why I drink. This is why I drink because I went to s-ship them all out, and I was like, “This time I’m gonna be on top of it, and I’m gonna do it.” And I, I printed them all out, and they’re getting labeled, and all of a sudden, I realized something odd. All the streets– All the, [sighs] all the zip codes and cities are different, but the street address somehow I had copy and pasted into– 

Em: Oh, Christine. 

Christine: –400 address labels, but not the like city and state and zip, so I didn’t notice it. So it was just– 

Em: Oh, Christine. 

Christine: –kind of– It was like– 

Em: That’s a toughie. 

Christine: –134 Highway Ave or something, but that was for all of them. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And I’m just so glad those didn’t get mailed out and then 400 of them came back to my PO box. Like I would have been– 

Em: I beg to differ. 

Christine: They would have kicked me out. 

Em: 1234 Highway Ave would have had so many stickers. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] In every different city in America– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –just like dropped off at the highway. 

Em: Yeah. [sighs] Oh, that sucks though. 

Christine: Anyway, that was extremely cringey behavior on my part. But that– all that to say, um, I’m gonna try again later. I ordered new shipping labels, so I gotta try that again. But, um, I’m working on it. So if you [chuckles] have not received your sticker yet, I promise I’m working on it, um, but they should go out any day now. So– 

Em: There’s nothing– 

Christine: –that’s why I drink ’cause I looked at it and went, “Are you fucking kidding me?” 

Em: Yeah, there’s– 

Christine: Like I spent hours doing that. 

Em: –there’s nothing more frustrating than thinking, “Oh, um, I’m actually gonna– I can feel it in my bones. I can be productive today.” 

Christine: 100%. “Look at me go.” 

Em: And then it ends up backfiring, and you’re like, “Well, I should have never even tried.” 

Christine: It was so organized, Em. Everything had like rubber band and a folder and like– 

Em: [groans] 

Christine: –was organized in a container. And then– 

Em: That was your first problem. 

Christine: –I’m like, “What the fuck did I do?” I got ahead of myself. 

Em: See, sometimes lucky girl syndrome works, and then other times like it’s– the optimism I feel like is actually the poison where I’m like, “Oh, I, I, I– This is gonna be great.” 

Christine: That’s kinda the– 

Em: “This is gonna be great.” 

Christine: That’s the delusion you have to kind of suffer through as part of it, you know. That’s just kind of part– It’s like, um, collateral damage sort of. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: You just kinda be a little delusional. 

Em: I– Oh, you know what? Yes. 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. Um, what do you drink? Oh, you have your little straw– choc– “choc-strawb”? 

Christine: I know. Look at that. That’s like a nice little– [chuckles] I got a strawb– 99 strawblems, yep. 

Em: I’m telling you, I love, I love her. I don’t know what– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: [groans] Every time I take a sip of her, I literally have to h– contain myself from going [groans], you know. 

Christine: Is this– Now, are we talking the lemonade or the milkshake now? 

Em: Now, that’s a good question. 

Christine: Is it both? 

Em: ¿Por qué no los dos? 

Christine: Okay, okay. [laughs] 

Em: Just saying. 

[glass clinks - start of ad break] 

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[straw sucking bottom of glass - end of ad break] 

Em’s Story – Scrim the Dog from New Orleans aka the Houdini Dog 

Em: I have a story for you, and I really did think that this was going to be– it was going to not take as long. I thought I was going to read like one newspaper article, and we were going to be out of here. That’s what I kind of thought was going on. Um, I was wrong. So– 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: I– It’s not, it’s not– Like this s– Me telling it will be probably of average length, but I really thought I was gonna have to– Anyway. Thought I was gonna have to force the narrative, and I don’t have to. So I’m scared to do this story because it is a– We’re, we’re bending the rules today. 

Christine: Ooh! 

Em: However, I did get your permission last time. 

Christine: Oh, yes. And I already forget what it is, but I remember being like, “Hell yeah.” 

Em: So everyone just be kind to me. And you’ll like it anyway, so like, back up, okay? 

Christine: Whoa. [laughs] 

Em: Everyone, chill. Actually, back the fuck up, everybody. 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: Here. This is, this is a story of a little puppy dog. See? Everyone’s already happy. And he doesn’t die, and he doesn’t become a ghost. So that’s kind of the problem, though, is that he’s not– this is not paranormal. However, we found a way to stretch the truth last week– 

Christine: That’s right. 

Em: –when you called it an urban legend. 

Christine: It’s not even a, a stretch of truth. I think this dog will live in the, in the lore for, for centur– Like I feel like this will be a local legend, you know. 

Em: He is a local legend already. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And the New York Times actually called him a mythical creature, and so– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –I’m like, “Well, I’m using it. I’m running with it.” So– 

Christine: You gotta, you gotta. 

Em: So this is Scrim the Dog of New Orleans. 

Christine: Aw, I’m so excited. 

Em: And again, this is probably the, the happiest story we ever will tell because, um– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –nobody dies in either of our stories. It’s incredible. So Scrim, let’s see. Take me back. Take me back, Christine. 2023. We know it well. 

Christine: 2023. It’s all a blur. 

Em: It sure is. So um, now imagine a little white terrier. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: Aw, little puppy. That is the picture I sent you earlier that I told you not to look at. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: This is Scrim, for your eyes. 

Christine: Oh my god. I forgot how cute he is. Oh my– And he looks like the dog from Annie. 

Em: Yes, yes. 

Christine: You know? Oh my god. [pause] Right? 

Em: Sandy. No. 

Christine: Oh. 

Em: He does not look like Sandy. [laughs] Sandy– 

Christine: Oh, I’ve never seen it. 

Em: –is sandy-colored. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Wait, what? You just shouted out– You just hoped that you’d be right. 

Christine: Okay. I feel like I’m right. [laughs] 

Em: Well, okay. You find out– You– I see you googling. 

Christine: That looks just like him. 

Em: I think you’re a, a liar. Hang on. [googling] Sandy dog Annie. Maybe in– May-may-maybe we watched different versions of Sandy– or of Annie. 

Christine: I have not watched any versions. I told you that already. 

Em: Okay. And that one– That’s not, that’s not the right one. Okay, everybody. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: In case anyone’s wondering, Christine is working off of the most recent Disney Channel Annie movie. 

Christine: I don’t know what that is. It just appeared. 

Em: No, I was– 

Christine: Okay, fine. Yeah, that dog’s bigger. You’re right. Not this one– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –the one– Okay, fine. It’s a little bigger. It reminds me of a dog from something, though. Is it Toto maybe? But Toto’s white, right? 

Em: Girl? First of all, this dog’s white, which would make them identical, but Toto– 

Christine: No, it’s not. Is it? It doesn’t– [laughs] 

Em: Toto is– Toto’s black. [laughs] 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] 

Em: Have you ever met a dog? [laughs] What are you talking about? 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: But you’re totally right. He looks like– He looks like a dog I’ve seen before. 

Christine: [laughs] He looks just like Jude Law. I can’t unsee it. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] I’m like so– Talk about delusional, man. I really– 

Em: No, he– 

Christine: –have lost the fucking plot today. 

Em: There is something about him that seems so similar. I mean, he– For people wondering, he looks kind of like a Westie. Um– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –but he looks like a little darker. I don’t know if that’s the lighting of the picture or not, but um, he– You know who he reminds me of? Which is funny, it sounds like Scrimp. Scamp from the sequel of Lady and the Tramp. 

Christine: That’s what I meant. 

Em: Yep. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I thought so. Just help– Just– 

Christine: Not that I’ve seen that either. 

Em: –helping you out left and right here. Um, look up Scamp. I feel like you have a better shot at agreeing with me there. 

Christine: Scamp from Lady and the Tramp. 

Em: It’s like Tramp’s son. 

Christine: No, it looks nothing like him. [laughs] 

Em: Okay, we’re both bad at this. [laughs] Okay. 

Christine: No, I think I just am like really off the deep end. I think like probably more people will agree with you. 

Em: Mm, no, I think– Actually, I googled Scamp too, and I think he was wrong in my eyes– Whatever everybody, he’s a fucking Westie. Okay? Um, so– or we don’t even know that. They keep calling him a, a wiry-haired terrier mix– 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: –but he looks like a Westie. And so 2023, this little puppy shows up on the scene, hot to trot. He’s found in a trailer park an hour outside of N-New Orleans. We do not know if he was a stray that happened to be going through this trailer park or if he was like someone’s free-roam dog. You know what I mean? 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: Either way, regardless of his origin story, um, he was captured and taken in by an animal shelter. And it seemed that when they took him in, they assumed he was a stray and not someone’s dog– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –because he seemed like he had a checkered past. He seemed like he– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –had a, a rough life. Um, so I don’t know. H-hopefully, they did not kidnap him from someone’s yard, but I, I don’t think that’s the case either ’cause nobody ever looked for him. You know what I mean? 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: The irony ’cause– You’ll find out. So this animal shelter took him in. However, it was a kill shelter. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: They named him Michael. Why would you name something you’re gonna kill? 

Christine: What? [laughs] 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: I was about to go, “Aw– Wait.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] “Big Mike. Big Mike.” 

Christine: I was literally ready to say “aw” to whatever the fuck you said. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And then Michael came through, and I went, “Actually, that’s a hard no for me.” 

Em: [laughs] Yes. 

Christine: Not even like Mikey, you know? Like what are you doing? 

Em: Yeah. And he doesn’t look like a Michael. 

Christine: No. [laughs] What dog looks like a Michael? Okay. 

Em: Not Scamp or the one from Annie or anything like that. 

Christine: None of them, none of them. And they all look exactly the same, but none of them look like a Michael. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Well, so they named him Michael just to then like threaten euthanasia on him because nobody was adopting him or– 

Christine: Well, maybe they name him Michael ’cause then they get less attached. 

Em: That’s true. They’re like, “[sighs] It’s just a random guy,” you know. 

Christine: “It’s just Mike.” 

Em: “Just Mike. You know, he won’t be missed.” 

Christine: That can’t be true. I don’t know. 

Em: I don’t know either. I don’t– I, I don’t understand the concept of naming a dog. I guess just to put something on the paperwork, but. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. 

Em: Anyway, unfortunately, this kill shelter was considering slating Michael for euthanasia. 

Christine: [sympathetic hum] 

Em: Um, which is super crazy if they, quote, “rescued” him from a trailer park where he like might have just been at home, and now they’re gonna like– [chuckles] 

Christine: Now they’re like, “Okay–“ 

Em: –rename him and kill him. 

Christine: Yeah. Well, so my cat was– 

Em: Crazy. 

Christine: One of our childhood cats was picked up, um, on a-a– He’s an outdoor cat– or indoor/outdoor cat, and he’s older, and he got picked up by animal control like right near– like right on our property– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –but on the like driveway area. And they brought him in and cut off the tip of his ear. And then when we finally got a hold of him, my mom– they tried to charge my mom for, for like– Because they said, “Oh, we cut off the ear tips if the do– if the cat is not neutered.” And my mom’s like, “Well, the cat is neutered,” and they’re like, “Yeah, but we didn’t know that.” And my mom was like– 

Em: What the fuck? 

Christine: –“Well, that’s not my problem.” 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And so they tried to charge her because they had already given him anesthesia to do the operation. Then they were like, “Oh, he’s already neutered,” so they cut off his ear and then billed us like $300, and we were like, “He, he’s already neutered. You can’t do that.” Anyway, they can do that. 

Em: And that man works for the Trump administration now because that sounds just evil and stupid and completely– 

Christine: It’s just a lo– Yeah. I– It’s like I know there’s a feral cat– 

Em: Just unadulterated chaos for nobody. And pain. 

Christine: There’s like– 

Em: Like why– Can you imagine someone just coming up and just cutting your fucking ear off and then going, “Whoops.” 

Christine: I know. 

Em: “I guess I wasn’t supposed to.” 

Christine: He’s like the scraggliest, funniest cat now. He’s like– talk about been through it, you know. 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. What’s his name? 

Christine: Marco. Michael. 

Em: So– 

Christine: [laughs] What if I said his name was Michael? 

Em: I was literally about to say, “Mark and Mike. Really?” 

Christine: Marco, not Mark. [laughs] 

Em: Sorry, that makes it different, yeah. Okay. 

Christine: Mark would be wild. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] First of all– 

Christine: Somehow just like the absence of the O makes it crazy. 

Em: It just– ’Cause it just sounds like a straight white man now. 

Christine: Exactly. 

Em: I mean, I’ve told you about Joshua at the dog park. I can’t even get into it today. Um– 

[Christine moves away from her microphone, sneezing into her elbow.] 

Em: That’s right. 

Christine: So sorry. I don’t know how to sneeze quietly. I’ve never learned the skill. 

Em: That’s okay. I think Joshua would– Just do that open face in front of him sometime. 

Christine: [laughs] Wait, what’s with Joshua again? 

Em: That fucking dog I hate. 

Christine: Oh. [laughs] Oh, right. Your mortal enemy. 

Em: I hate that dog. And then one of my friends was very nice and, and took Hank to the park the other day. And I did not think Joshua would be there, so I didn’t warn her. And we came home, and she was like, “Who the fuck is that dog Joshua?” And I went, “I know. I hate that goddamn dog.” 

Christine: “Don’t even get me started.” 

Em: I’m pretty sure that’s what I said. I was like, “I can’t even with that right now.” Um, okay. So Michael’s about to get euthanized. And in the eleventh hour, I’m assuming, for the cinematic effect– 

Christine: [sighs] Of course. 

Em: –all of a sudden, Michelle Cheramie [pronounced “share-a-mee”]? Cheramie [pronounced “shur-ah-mee”]? I’m not totally sure of how to pronounce her name, but Michelle. She runs Zeus’s Rescue, a non-kill shelter. And– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –I guess part of her job is going to actual kill shelters and rescuing those dogs and then putting them in her rescue. Love that. 

Christine: Hey, that’s a really tough job, dude. 

Em: Love that. She scooped up Michael real quick. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: She renamed him Scrim, which somehow better than Michael. 

Christine: Definitely. 

Em: And she– I guess it was after a local rapper who– 

Christine: Oh, I didn’t know that. 

Em: –I did, I did look him up, and $crim [pronounced “scrim”], the rapper, his S is a dollar sign, so. 

Christine: Oh, well. Hell yeah. 

Em: So I like to imagine if we’re going like real one-for-one naming him after the rapper, then this dog also has a dollar sign ins– in his name. 

Christine: Which is so much more kick-ass than Michael. No offense. 

Em: A– [chuckles] Agreed. Not a dollar sign to be found with Michael. 

Christine: Mm-mmm. 

Em: So he’s named after a rapper, and, uh, the rescue tried their best to help him. They like tried to re-socialize him for many months, but he was horribly timid. Michelle has worked in this industry for like over 20 years, and she described him as catatonic, terrified, and whatever happened to him before this rescue, quote, “could have not been good.” 

Christine: Oh, honey. 

Em: After over 20 years of rescuing dogs, she said that he was one of the most shut down, scared dogs who needed lots of love, um, and sh– they, they got to a point where they just couldn’t do anything. He was just gonna be ca– 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: –forever categorized as a scared puppy. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: But a few months into helping him, um, they did find a couple interested in adopting Scrim. And the couple took Scrim home for essentially a test trial to see if they were compatible before signing papers, and that same day, Scrim bolted. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: Horrible. Imagine like you finally think you found the puppy – j– gone. And then what do you tell the shelter? And you haven’t even signed papers yet. You were like– 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: –“Uh-oh.” 

Christine: That’s gotta feel bad. 

Em: He basically found a way off his leash, and he got under the fence and just [makes sound effect of something moving quickly] “pew!” 

Christine: Poor baby. 

Em: One article was quoted saying, “On the first night at his new home, Scrim became the fugitive he is known as today.” 

Christine: [gasps] That’s where it all began. 

Em: His origin story. So– And also like realistically, I wonder if his actual origin story in the trailer park was he already bolted from someone else, you know. 

Christine: Like a fugitive o-on the run already. He’s on the lam, you know. 

Em: Always on the lam. Every single article used the phrase “on the lam” with this dog. 

Christine: No. See– 

Em: Loved it. 

Christine: –they– It’s like sometimes true crime reporting is fun to do when it’s not about true crime and it’s like actually happy– 

Em: The only– 

Christine: –you know, happier story. 

Em: As the pol– poltergeist? Whoa. Maybe. [chuckles] That– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Paranormal in general, I meant to say. As the paranormal side of this, I never get to hear the like– w-what jargon is pretty common in true crime reporting. 

Christine: Oh, right. You don’t read these articles. Right. 

Em: The closest I’ve got is like Captain Craig in an SVU saying he wants another foot in someone’s ass, you know? Like– [chuckles] 

Christine: That's actually pretty accurate. I would say most articles say something along those lines. [laughs] 

Em: Okay. [laughs] Or– You know– What’s, what’s the one that Law and Order always say? Oh, a fishing expedition. “We don’t want another fishing expedition.” 

Christine: Oh, they love a fishing expedition. 

Em: They love to go fishing. 

Christine: They sure do. 

Em: They hate it actually. Um– 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: So, okay. Takes off. This couple, I’m sure, is fully panicked. Very quickly, they reach out to the rescue. The couple and the rescue are both putting out flyers all over town. And I don’t know what marketing they have, but they should go into advertising. Because their flyers garnered so much attention that people all over New Orleans started looking for him in the way that if anyone lost their dog, you hope people get into a– into action. 

Christine: Y– That you would just wish you could get that word out to the point that everyone was– Yeah. 

Em: It– 

Christine: That’s such a good point. 

Em: It was a day where the spirit of community was inside everybody. 

Christine: Right, and you kn– It’s so rare to see that, you know. 

Em: Yeah. I don’t know, I don’t know what they did. Maybe their– the reward money was like incredible or something. 

Christine: You need like “an unlikely hero.” No, even when the reward money is high, like even in true crime for real, like people don’t organize like this, you know? 

Em: Yeah. This is– Ironically– This is the search party everybody wants on their side. 

Christine: Yeah. I think he like just touched that many people’s hearts that they were like moved by this. Yeah. 

Em: I guess so. They didn’t even know him though yet. They would like– The– It was just this rescue who knew a puppy, and then he just bolted it– at this couple’s house. 

Christine: What were the flyers that made it so successful? 

Em: I don’t– I mean, I saw the flyers, and they just look like normal flyers. It was just like– 

Christine: Oh, maybe there’s something about– Is a– Is his picture on it? 

Em: I think so. Yeah. 

Christine: I wonder like maybe he just looks– 

Em: [googling] Scrim missing. 

Christine: Maybe he has like, um– Aww. 

Em: Yeah. The– So the main one is “Lost. Don’t chase. White dog, brown spots. Text Scrim’s location to” and then the phone number. 

Christine: Wow. I mean, you’re right. It’s very simple. 

Em: Yeah. So it was, um– I don’t know what was going on that day. Just everyone was ready to be a villager. 

Christine: I think it’s also the very clear, um, call to action. “Text his location to this number.” ’Cause like it’s not like, oh– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –“missing dog,” and then you don’t know what to do or there’s a phone number at the bottom. Are you supposed to call it? But just to say like, “if you see him, just say where he is–“ 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “–via text.” I feel like that is a clear– That’s kind of a good note for, uh– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –you know, for getting people involved. 

Em: ’Cause it’s also like maybe you can’t rescue him, but if you see him, let me know. 

Christine: Right, exactly. Like at least then you can alert them as to what neighborhood he’s in. 

Em: Well, so very, very quickly they, you know, they put the flyers out, and all of New Orleans just decided, “this was the dog we all give a shit about.” So they made literal search parties. [chuckles] I, I would love to know what was going on that day that moved everybody, but– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Like made search parties where like strangers were crawling under abandoned houses looking to see if he was hiding because they knew h-he was like scared. Um– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –they tried luring him out with Popeye’s, which would have worked on me. Did not work on him. 

Christine: How many other dogs and/or Ems do you think they discovered along the way? As they were like luring– 

Em: I– [laughs] 

Christine: –luring animals out with Popeye’s from under abandoned houses? Like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –raccoons and mice and– 

Em: Imagine me just crawling out like the girl from The Ring for the chicken. 

Christine: –and Em. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: “Do you have that strawberry chocolate chip milkshake?” [laughs] 

Em: If I ever go missing, tell Shake Shack to put me on every milkshake cup, you know what I’m saying? 

Christine: I’m just gonna waft that smell around, you know, until you come running. 

Em: [laughs] Um, they even like started like, uh, online forums, uh, called “Scrim Spottings” where– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –they would just put in all of their updates if anyone had seen him. And basically what really sealed his stardom was the fact that this was not a “missing” dog. Every single person saw this dog– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –somewhere through the town, and they just couldn’t get to him fast enough. 

Christine: Yes. That’s right. 

Em: And so I think that was what like very quickly spurred the interest because it’s not like, “Oh, there’s a dog flyer, and I– I’ll probably never see that dog again.” Everybody saw this dog– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: –and so it became almost like, like– You know, in high school when everyone started playing that one like murderer spoons game or something– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –where everyone got weirdly involved? Do you know what I’m talking about? 

Christine: Um, I mean, I made people play that at my birthday party in middle school, but I don’t know if that’s– Like wh– 

Em: I don’t know– I don’t, I don’t remember, I don’t remember the name of the game. I just remember in high school, for some reason, it became a thing where it was just like this mass game where people were trying to like clip clothespins and shit to each other and stuff and– 

Christine: Oh, no, I did not participate in that. I don’t know. That sounds like fun, but I didn’t– I don’t remember that. 

Em: It just became this weird mind hive where it was like it’s– It starts at 400 people, and there’s only gonna be one winner – who is it? But– 

Christine: Well, and now– I mean, nowadays we have like TikTok, and everybody will know about it within minutes, you know– 

Em: Seconds, yeah. 

Christine: –like, and every school will have the sa– Yeah. So I feel like it’s– it was primed to be a viral thing. 

Em: Yeah. Well, I feel like everybody was like, “If everybody’s seeing him, who’s gonna be the one to catch him?” And so– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –it became almost like this like weird contest it felt like for people to try to get Scrim because they wanted to be the one that made it into the paper. Like, “We got him!” 

Christine: Oh my lord. 

Em: But people– I mean, it’s 2023. People had phones. And so, it just– If you were in the algorithm of 2023, I suppose, there was just video after video of people almost getting him. [laughs] 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: Like, “We saw him again over here!” “We saw him here!” 

Christine: And it’s like also the fact that he’s not just hiding, you know. Like a lot of times– 

Em: He’s not hiding. 

Christine: –when an animal will go– they’ll find a spot and like stay– h-hide out where there might be food, near a dumpster. But yeah, the fact that he’s like all over town to the point they’re mapping it out, you know, it’s just remarkable. It sounds like a Disney movie. 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] I just imagine like really like lovely, flouncy pouncy music behind him, and everyone else is actually just screaming. [chuckles] Um– 

Christine: Just like, “Run!” [chuckles] 

Em: Well, people were so excited to try to get him that when the videos would come out, it started churning more and more interest, and so people outside New Orleans also started f– started following what Scrim was up to. 

Christine: A-ha. 

Em: Um, people started knowing him as the “Houdini dog,” and some papers– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –called him “the dog who refused to be homed.” 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: And so many people were able to almost catch him. But when I say he was just too fast, there were people on like 15 mile an hour scooters trying to chase after him, and he was just like– They were eating his dust. Like he was going– 

Christine: Damn. 

Em: –at least 20 miles an hour when he ran. Um, and so that’s why on the flyers it says “do not chase” because they’re like, “You’re not–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: “You’re not gonna get him.” Um, it got to the point where Michelle and the rescue decided that the only way that they could catch this dog b– ’Cause they were just inundated with just texts non-stop. ’Cause if one person posted a video saying, “He’s right here.” Then three blocks later, they’d get another text: “He’s right here. He’s right here.” 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Eventually, they were like, “The only way to get this fucking dog is with a goddamn tranquilizer.” [chuckles] 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And so they literally– Like I guess Michelle started practicing like blow darts or some shit like that– 

Christine: What– 

Em: –or tran– 

Christine: –the fuck? 

Em: She– or– tranquilizer gun. She started practicing shooting with a tranquilizer gun– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –at something that was Scrim-sized in case she ever saw him, just to be able to like– 

Christine: Oh– 

Em: –on-site get him. 

Christine: –my lord. 

Em: And they even had to hire marksmen from Texas to come into town because they knew how to use tranquilizer blow darts for animals. 

Christine: What the fuck? 

Em: But get this. So then the Texas marksman, who is really good at blow darts, he literally found Scrim, blew a blow dart at him full of tranquilizer, and this dog somehow just metabolized it– ba-basically went [makes a gulping sound] and just kept on running. [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: He is– 

Christine: Can’t he be free? 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Or are we just like not letting him be free? Is it like he’s– It just feels a little bit like, “Okay, we don’t–“ I– That’s a little much. I don’t know. Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe I’m wrong. My gut is just like, “What are we tranquilizing the dog for?” I guess you want him to be safe, but like– [sighs] 

Em: Some locals embraced his “passion for freedom,” and “FreeScrim” became a running hashtag. 

Christine: Okay, fair enough. Okay. Yeah, got it. 

Em: Another time, Michelle was able to corner him with a literal – I didn’t know they made these, thought it was in old cartoons – net gun. 

Christine: Oh my gosh. 

Em: And it misfired, which gave Scrim the chance to run away again. This is why they– 

Christine: Well, he’s probably terrified. Like they’re just shooting things at him and like blowing blow darts at him and running down at– with scooters, 15 mile per hour scooters. I mean, no wonder he’s scared. 

Em: At this point, I also thought the same thing where I was like, I get that we’re treating this like it’s a cute little like, “Ah, he can’t be, he can’t be governed,” but it’s like he was already, quote, “the most scared dog you’d ever seen”– 

Christine: He’s like traumatized, yeah. 

Em: –and now hordes of people are running after him. 

Christine: And like just constantly initiating his fight/flight, you know– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –like, eugh. 

Em: Like– And he’s like, “I know better than to go for that Popeye’s,” you know? [laughs] 

Christine: Right, right, right. [laughs] Like, “I’m not stupid.” 

Em: “I’m not stupid.” Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: “I wasn’t born yesterday.” But like– Yeah. And I, I– I don’t want– I don’t mean to put blame on any, any of the people trying to rescue him. I’m s– As far as not like the regular citizens. But like the, the res– the shelter, like I can understand like the desperation of trying to find this dog, um. But yeah, it’s just sad ’cause, you know, he’s so scared. 

Em: You know he’s so scared. But also like I, I think everybody’s like– The fact that he became this internet sensation, people were– It only probably made things worse for him. Imagine having social anxiety and now everyone’s running at you. Like it’s– 

Christine: Now they’re like, “No, we love you.” 

Em: “Ahh!” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Yeah. So I think everyone was like, “No, we’re trying to like bring you presents and take you home and love you.” 

Christine: And also, if you think about it, like when he was first on the, on the lam, uh, in the early days, like nobody knew about him. It’s not like people were chasing him every time he walked down the road. So now– 

Em: Ah, before fame, you know. 

Christine: Right. Before fame. [chuckles] Now he’s just got the paps running after him. 

Em: He’s like a classic A-lister. He’s like, “I can’t even go to the grocery store anymore, you know.” 

Christine: “Can’t even be seen.” Oh my god. 

Em: Um, so this plus the videos of near sightings going viral– I mean, he’s a full-blown internet sensation at this point. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: He cannot be caught until 177 days later. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: It was a wild goose chase for like half a year. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: And eventually, someone saw him in a fenced parking lot, and he got himself in there in some way where he could not get out. He had trapped himself. 

Christine: Poor baby. 

Em: They text Michelle. She runs over. They were able to actually get him with a tranquilizer. [chuckles] 

Christine: Oh boy. 

Em: But also this dog, it sounds like he– There was no other way to get him. 

Christine: He’s– Yeah, he’s going through it right now. Poor baby. 

Em: They– And– But even after they were able to like tranquilize him, he still sprinted around for seven full minutes– 

Christine: [sucks in deep breath] Ooh. 

Em: –before even like falling asleep. Like he– There was something about him which part of me is like, “Oh my gosh, he just like– He’s such a strong dog.” But part of me is also like, “His adrenaline must have been through the fucking roof.” 

Christine: Oh, I think it has to be. Right? Like the stress response. 

Em: I think he was just so scared. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Um, so finally back in the care of Michelle’s rescue, they were able to take him to a hospital to be assessed. ’Cause I think that’s one of the main reasons– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –that they wanted to check on this dog is like– 

Christine: No, that makes sense. 

Em: I get them wanting to take care of him, but also it’s like, “Yeah, some, some animals are just meant to fly,” you know? 

Christine: [chuckles] He’s like, “Let me be.” 

Em: [chuckles] Um, but so they took him to the hospital, and thank god that they finally caught him, because this is what the hospital found: several abrasions across his entire body– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –lost teeth, broken teeth. He had lost a toenail. He’d lost a chunk of his ear – maybe he had not been neutered and some– 

Christine: I’m telling you. 

Em: Maybe that same guy from your town did that to him. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, he had 108 degree fever– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –and he had two bullets in him. 

Christine: What? 

Em: Air pellet bullets, to be fair, but he had still been shot, and then they– 

Christine: See– 

Em: –they stayed in him, and it– his like– he– the wound grew over it, which I bet is probably what came from like the very first family– or what– his trailer park days because it had grown over so much by that point. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: And– 

Christine: So it could be an earlier injury. 

Em: –it would explain why he was so scared. 

Christine: So no wonder he’s terrified. 

Em: He’d been fucking shot. 

Christine: Well, and especially if they’re shooting like blow darts at him. He doesn’t know it’s a blow dart– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and not another fucking gun, another Airsoft gun or whatever that is. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. But he was, um, in a rough state. 

Christine: Poor baby. 

Em: But then in one article, someone said, “if he wasn’t already a legend, now he’s an outlaw,” because he like– 

Christine: Yeah, I mean, he’s a bad boy for sure. 

Em: Literally he’s been shot at, and he’s just– 

Christine: Outlaw is the best word for it. 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. So while Scrim rested up for his travels– uh, from his travels, the whole town rejoiced that Scrim was found. 

Christine: Aww. 

Em: They were– 

Christine: That he was safe. 

Em: –so excited. Like every– It was like– I don’t know– 

Christine: And you know New Orleans loves a reason to party, okay, people. 

Em: Oh my god. They literally– 

Christine: God. 

Em: Like you don’t even– 

Christine: They’re like, “Oh, let me dust these, uh, old carnival decorations off there.” 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: “Only three days since we last used them.” 

Em: [chuckles] I know– 

Christine: “We’re– need for another party here.” 

Em: They– Just more beads and beads and beads and– 

Christine: Bring ‘em on. 

Em: –drinking and– Yeah. 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: So news out– news outlets reported on him being safe, and even New Orleans City Council held a ceremony for him– 

Christine: Aww. [chuckles] 

Em: –where they invited him to like city hall, and they gave him a full-blown event– 

Christine: Aw! 

Em: –where he– they gifted him doggy treats for his “resilience.” 

Christine: Aw. [sighs] 

Em: Um, the council members were apparently starstruck by Scrim because they’d also been following along. 

Christine: I get it. I would be too. 

Em: And one of them even stated that this was like the best day of her li– like the best day on the council of her life. 

Christine: Oh my god. She’s like, “I always knew this job would be worth something.” 

Em: She’s like, “I just want to protect and serve. Ah! Scrim!” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And two– By the way, there was one article, I think it was– I don’t, I don’t want to say the wrong one. But there was one article where they interviewed the council members, and the whole interview is just two different districts– uh, two different, uh, council members representing different districts arguing with each other over which district Scrim is from ’cause they wanted him to be like the mascot of their district. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: One of them said, “Scrim’s favorite district seems to be, uh, District B. So Scrim is now officially the mascot of District B.” And then the next person said, “I think we can establish that Scrim is a District A resident,” and “that’s just really important to me.” That’s a quote. [laughs] 

Christine: Whoa. 

Em: I, all of a sudden, am so into politics. You know what I’m saying? [laughs] 

Christine: Yeah, you’re like, “Oh, is this what it’s like? Sure, I could get into that.” 

Em: Like, “I have been missing out.” Um, after all the hullabaloo, uh– Oh, by the way, if you– I think I had a picture actually for you. Um, I was gonna send to you– Yes, here is Scrim at his city council ceremony. He’s at the podium and everything as if he’s about to give a “thank you” speech. 

Christine: Oh my god, he has a beautiful haircut. 

Em: He got his haircut. He d– Notice that GPS collar on all of a sudden. [chuckles] 

Christine: Do you see that gigantic tracker on his collar? [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: It’s like humongous. 

Em: It’s literally like a big ass battery on his neck. They’re like, “You’re going nowhere.” 

Christine: Oh my god. Oh, sweetheart. 

Em: So– 

Christine: Yeah, now I see that he’s white. I couldn’t even really tell in that first photo. He looked like kind of darker to me. 

Em: That must have been after like the six months of him on the lam, and he’s a little dirty– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –and disheveled like an old western cowboy. You know about all that. 

Christine: Yeah. Like all scraggly. But this one he has like a fresh haircut. Aw, baby. 

Em: Um, so he, after all this, ended up going back home to rest up since he wasn’t– you know, he’d gone through a lot, and the hospital wanted him to rest. He went back to the family that was considering adopting him, which like, wow, round two would be horrifying. 

Christine: Traumatized. Right. 

Em: And they ended up needing to go out of town for a week, so Michelle actually offered to take him in while they were gone. So Michelle is watching him. And she actually reported saying that it was very cute watching Scrim get very comfortable with like, um, the day-to-day life of being like a domestic dog. And he– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: She said like he would fall asleep like the classic dog thing where like he’s totally splayed out with his stomach in the air, and he’s like snoring– 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –and wagging his tail, and he was bonding with her pets, and– Like he was very content. That was what she said. He was very content there. Um, and so one day, she decides to leave, and she’s gonna go get an errand– I think she was actually getting a dog stroller for him. 

Christine: Mm… 

Em: Um, but when she came back, the neighbor was screaming at her, uh, from the, from the street, saying, “the dog jumped off the roof.” 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: And while gone, uh, she– apparently, he jumped off th– 13 feet out of the second story building– 

Christine: What? 

Em: –onto concrete– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –somehow unharmed. And, uh, yeah, he, he took off again. And so if you would like, I can send you the video of Scrim jumping from the building. 

Christine: What? 

Em: Do you care– 

Christine: There’s a video? 

Em: So basically, she ended up being like, “What the fuck happened?”– 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: –and went and looked at her security cameras. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: And true, true as day, he– 

Christine: You have got to be kidding me. 

Em: –dove out of the second story window and directly onto concrete and somehow just took off. 

Christine: Where is this dog trying to go? 

Em: Here’s the video for you. 

Christine: Holy shit. Okay, I just pulled it up. [watching the clip] Oh my god! Sorry. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: It– He just like– 

Em: He– Like a cannonball, [makes a sound effect of something heavy falling] “dunk!” 

Christine: –fucking slams down. 

Em: Yeah, I, I would imagine that’s four broken ankles right there. But he– 

Christine: Holy crap. 

Em: –seems unfazed. 

Christine: Yeah, he does. 

Em: Uh– 

Christine: And then he just like fucking runs off. 

Em: Yeah, just takes off. 

Christine: What? 

Em: And so she posted it online to let everybody know what happened, setting off a second round of– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –Scrim fame. Reports of Scrim’s latest escape came out of the Washington Street Journal– Washington– Washington Street Journal? Is that– I’m not saying that right. 

Christine: Washington– 

Em: Am I– Washington? 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: Oh, it was. Okay. I was like, for some reason “street” sounded wrong. Um, he– Washington Street Journal reported about him. Washington Post, Associated Press, New York Times, they all got a h– 

Christine: Oh, you mean Wall Street Journal. 

Em: Wall Street Journal! I knew I was saying it wrong. 

Christine: I was like, “Why do I feel like something’s off?” 

Em: Thank you. 

Christine: “I can’t put my finger on it.” No, I have– 

Em: I was like, “I have–“ It felt like a sneeze that wasn’t gonna come out. 

Christine: I kept thinking W– WSJ, but I was like, “That sounds wrong.” 

Em: Wall Street Journal. Thank you. 

Christine: Okay. Anyway. 

Em: Um, okay. So like big outlets are now reporting on him. Bi– Like and all their headlines, by the way, w-when I looked it up– not all of them. A lot of their headlines were like, “Scrim escaped… again.” [laughs] 

Christine: I don’t think I remember that this happened again. 

Em: I don’t remember any– I think I saw the video of a dog jumping out the window, but I thought that was like a R– like on Reddit, and I went, “Oh,” and I scrolled right past. I don’t think I was a part– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –of this thing at all. 

Christine: No. 

Em: But so anyway, now he’s gone. Huge he-headlines about this. The whole town is like, “Where the fuck did this dog go?” Like, “We just spent six months like rallying together as a unit to find this goddamn dog.” And they went, “All right, let’s do it again.” Now the papers are calling him “New Orleans’s Most Ungovernable Dog.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And each sighting, uh, from– It’s not just phones anymore. People are using their doorbell cameras ’cause they’re like– 

Christine: Oh, yeah. 

Em: –“If, if he ran from here, then maybe my camera has it.” “Maybe my camera–“ 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: So they’re just like trying to track his entire trail. 

Christine: Map it out. 

Em: And I mean, it’s spiking so much interest. At first, uh, when he took off, Michelle was like, “Well, this isn’t even a problem because I put that big-ass battery GPS tracker on him–“ 

Christine: Right. 

Em: “–so we’re good now.” It died within two hours. 

Christine: No. 

Em: And immediately, the search was on. 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: New York Times said, “With each foiled capture or implausible escape, his fame grew and so did his reputation.” 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: And once again, Scrim was spotted at several major landmarks. They’re like, “He’s at Audubon Zoo.” 

Christine: What? [chuckles] 

Em: “He’s at the Superdome.” He’s like– 

Christine: “He just wants to see the world.” 

Em: He– Well, they should have just had him at that little beignet place. What? Café du Monde. 

Christine: Yeah, Café du Monde. 

Em: That’d have been crazy if people just got– 

Christine: I’m sure he did a stop there. 

Em: You have to if you’re gonna tour– 

Christine: You have to. 

Em: –New Orleans like he’s doing. Um, so he was seen all over, and a Scrim hotline became available for tips. People were doing daily canvases of their neighborhoods, and Scrim s– Scrim spottings were regularly now updated– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –on this crowdsourced online map where it literally– You could see tags of everywhere he’d been. 

Christine: That is bananas. 

Em: Um, knowing he was out there, people started leaving food, water, and blankets out, uh, on their porches or outside of their businesses with a note on it that said “for Scrim.” 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: And– I think that was when people were like defeated. They were like, “Whatever. Take the blanket and the food. We’re not even gonna try to catch you anymore.” 

Christine: And then, “We’re probably gonna get a raccoon infestation anyway with all this food.” 

Em: [chuckles] Well, so Scrim was missing this time for three more months. 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: And this happened in Nove-November. Um, and so he survived the entire very intense winter of New Orleans. I think that year there was a record-breaking blizzard, and he somehow– People still saw him. This little white dog in the snow, they still saw him all the time, and nobody could get him. 

Christine: Oh my god. 

Em: So February 11 rolls, rolls by, and Michelle gets a picture sent to her. 

Christine: That’s today. 

Em: [gasps] Can you imagine? Like talk about– 

Christine: Synchronicity. 

Em: Totally on purpose. Totally, totally, totally on purpose. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: I’m so good. I’m so good. I actually like– I planned this recording for, for this. 

Christine: And you even acted like you didn’t, which was so impressive. 

Em: I know. Well, I really wanted you to like figure it out for yourself. 

Christine: Thank you. It took me n– long enough. 

Em: It sure did. I just had to say the date– 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: –and then like two seconds in, you got it, so. 

Christine: I figured it out. 

Em: Um, so basically February 11, welcome to today. Happy anniversary to Scrim. 

Christine: [chuckles] 

Em: Um, Michelle got a picture sent to her of Scrim in a trap that a– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –trap and rescue group put together for feral cats. They put all this food together for cats, and I guess– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –he was so hungry he just tried to sneak in there. 

Christine: Poor baby. 

Em: And they brought him back to the hospital, and they were like, “What the fuck is– has this dog probably done now?” And apparently, he was totally fine. He– No broken ankles from that concrete jump. 

Christine: Thank god. 

Em: He had like some– like a tapeworm or parasite or something, but he ended up being fine. Um– 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: –and news outlets again had to report that Scrim was captured. And I’m sure there was hesitancy in re– in even putting that paper out. They were like– 

Christine: Seriously. 

Em: –“We’re just gonna have to write about this again.” Uh, they ended up figuring out through all the crowdsource online mappings that Scrim had probably, sometimes up to at 20 miles an hour, had traveled 60 square miles in his travels. 

Christine: Jesus. 

Em: And when combing through everyone’s sightings of him, by the end of his travels – ’cause it had been pretty much an entire year at that point – Scrim survived the following while he was missing. He had endured summer temperatures in New Orleans– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –that humid over 100 degree weather. He had survived Hurricane Francine. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: He had survived being shot at, apparently multiple times. 

Christine: Uh-huh. 

Em: He survived dodging cars on highways. There were sightings of him dodging trains. 

Christine: Jeez. 

Em: Uh, he survived jumping out of a second story building onto concrete. He survived celebration fireworks, which i– terrifies most dogs. 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: He survived the packed streets of New Orleans while they were hosting a Super Bowl. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: He survived January’s freezing winter, which involved a record-breaking blizzard, and then all the other wounds that came with him, his broken teeth and all this. Well, so he was finally captured. However, now the real drama starts because after all their bonding over Scrim, Michelle and the interested adoptive parents are now having some custody agreements. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: Basically, the adoptive couple, Tammy, and I think her name’s Freba [pronounced “free-bah”]. Um, Tammy and Freba, they had been just as determined the entire time to find Scrim. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: Um, and– But, you know, they did everything by the book to adopt him. They, they just hadn’t signed papers because they didn’t have the time because he just immediately went missing. But because Michelle got so attached to Scrim through all this– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –uh, backed out of the agreement last minute in a way where it was like certainly unprofessional. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: She announced the decision on Facebook, saying that she’d “had a change of heart”– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –because Scrim had bonded with her pets. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: And then she also said that the couple, quote, “took it hard,” which duh. 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: And the couple’s own statement– Um, Tammy wrote– This is on also social media as like a response, I guess. Tammy said, “No words. Devastated and really speechless. Over ten months of my life dedicated to bringing him home to safety. Even made it official and filled out an application and got approved, only to be here. And he’s not my dog.” 

Christine: Wow, that hurts. 

Em: Um, she also said, “The most important thing is Scrim’s happiness and what’s good for him. I want to see him thriving. I want to see him happy. But I lost my dog, and I lost my friend.” 

Christine: Wow, that’s heartbreaking. 

Em: And this was after Michelle even publicly stated how involved the couple was in trying to get Scrim home. Um, Michelle had said, “Tammy was with me every step of the way during Scrim’s time on the run. She spent countless sleepless nights driving around, moving traps, putting out feeding stations, assembling the Scrim recovery team–“ 

Christine: Oh… [sighs] 

Em: “–and doing everything she could to try and capture him safely. Her dedication to him is unparalleled. She was not just a person who was interested in adopting Scrim. She helped save him,” and then said, “I’m taking the dog”– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –basically. 

Christine: Yeah. That’s bad. That’s really rough. 

Em: So, for obvious reasons, Michelle was given a lot of hate online from people who’d been following Scrim’s story, which was everybody. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: She apparently even got death threats from some people. 

Christine: Oh boy. 

Em: And, um, many people said that– I’ll– Many people said that she decided to keep Scrim purely because of his fame and she thought that he was a, quote, “viral meal ticket” for like– or like clout for her own res-rescue shelter basically. Like– 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: –“Oh, we’re the rescue shelter that has Scrim, and we–“ So I think a lot of people thought it was a marketing move. And actually, we were in New Orleans on tour– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –when this was going on because there was a bunch of Scrim merch everywhere. 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: And I remember asking a store person like, “Oh, what– What’s– Who’s the Scrim character?” And [chuckles] she was like, “Don’t even get me started.” And she ended up– 

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

Em: She ended up telling me the whole thing. And I guess it was in the thick of this like custody disagreement– 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: –as I’ll call it, because she had pretty similar words for Michelle that like that the whole– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –the whole town was apparently really not happy with her, um– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –because they all wanted Scrim to finally be with his family, especially since they had worked for over ten months to get him home. 

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 

Em: It sounded like a lot of people were not very happy with Michelle. Um, but they allegedly did come to an agreement. I think because of the death threats, um, Tammy and Freba even decided like this was too much, and they, they reached out, saying on Michelle’s behalf to stop the hate. 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: And I think they even made a video with Michelle and Scrim. 

Christine: Oh, wow. 

Em: And they publicly stated that they, um, had come to an agreement for like visitation basically– [chuckles] 

Christine: Aw. 

Em: –where– which I think is still a little messed up because basically Michelle ended up getting Scrim and the couple could have visitation. I’m like, “Shouldn’t the couple–“ 

Christine: Yeah. Well, and I also feel like that’s kind of a hard thing to consistently upkeep and– or keep up and make sure that that’s– That just feels like a recipe for disaster like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –logistically and stuff. 

Em: I think so too. I– The only– 

Christine: Especially with the dog that keeps trying to escape. It’s like now you’re bringing them to two different houses or– 

Em: Well, Tammy said, “Our focus is on Scrim. I hope everyone can celebrate with us that this dog is just doing wonderful.” 

Christine: Mm. 

Em: And to this day, Scrim is still a beloved icon in NOLA, as I wrote in my notes. And some sources even call him a mythical creature, which is very validating– 

Christine: Ah-ha-ha. 

Em: –for why this happened. 

Christine: Including this source. [chuckles] 

Em: Including this source. And this source also calls him an urban legend, which is something I cover. 

Christine: That’s right. 

Em: Uh, he has had a statue made of him displayed at Barkus. Do you know about Barkus? It’s the– 

Christine: Barkus? No. 

Em: So New Orleans also has like a basically a dog Mardi Gras every year. 

Christine: Ohh. 

Em: And so he had a statue at Barkus. 

Christine: That’s cute. 

Em: He was also literally a Mardi Gras parade float one year. 

Christine: That’s awesome. 

Em: Again, he was “honsored” by– honored by the New Orleans City Council, and he was the mascot for many projects throughout the city. He inspired many local murals. He, uh, inspired a lot of flash tattoos in town. 

Christine: Oh, I bet. 

Em: And one article actually said that “scrim” is now like a, a phrase, like a slang word out there, which– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –means, quote, “hastily leaving without looking back.” [laughs] 

Christine: Em, that’s so good. 

Em: He also has had a book written about him called Scrim on the Run. 

[Em holds up a picture book. The cover shows a scruffy small white dog running down a colorful New Orleans road at sunset. He has a wide grin on his face. “Scrim” is written above him with the rest of the title, “on the Run!” underneath him. At the bottom, it says “Written and Illustrated by Madi Hannan.”] 

Christine: There it is! Oh my– Look how cute that is. Local author, Scrim on the Run. 

Em: And he’s also had– So in New Orleans, there’s the National Bobblehead Hall of Fame– 

Christine: Oh, I didn’t know that. 

Em: –which I have been to. And they made a limited edition bobblehead of Scrim. 

[Em holds up a figurine of Scrim on a purple platform with a thin green base. His name is written in block yellow letters on the front of the platform. His head is proportionally a bit larger than his body and wobbles as Em picks the figurine up.] 

Christine: You have it, too? Come on. Look at the Mardi Gras colors on the– [gasps] Baby. 

Em: Um, yeah, they only made 2,024 of them. And I got one. 

Christine: Oh, wow. 

Em: You would love the Bobblehead– Actually, Leona would love the Bobblehead Museum because they actually have like a, a, like a map, and you have to find all the– these certain ones. “Find the one that has this, and find the one–“ 

Christine: Oh, that’s fun. 

Em: Yeah, it was very fun. 

Christine: I didn’t even know that existed honestly. 

Em: [sighs] You know me and my weird spots, but, um– 

Christine: I, I sure do. 

Em: But anyway, I became obsessed with him, so now I’ve got his book and his bobblehead. 

Christine: Yay. 

Em: And that is Scrim. 

Christine: Oh my gosh. Now I’m going to scrim to the bathroom real quick. [chuckles] 

Em: Okay, great. [chuckles] 

Christine: That is so cool. He’s so cute and sweet. I didn’t know the drama about him jumping out of the window. That’s fucking nuts. 

Em: I know. I know. 

Christine: Sweet baby. 

Em: I, I thought that was where it began, but apparently, that was just the, the sequel. He said, “I’m not done yet.” 

Christine: I mean, it feels really like some sort of movie, like kid’s movie. Like he’s getting blow darts and like– 

Em: Yeah. [laughs] 

Christine: –dodging trains and like jumping out of windows. I mean, it feels ridiculous, but wow. 

Em: I mean, the real children’s movie of it all, which is so sad, is like if the end goal was like he was trying to find his like, like a little girl who was his owner that he loved. 

Christine: So that’s what I was worried about. I’m like, “Is there somewhere he’s trying to get to?” You know what I mean? Like it– with some cats? 

Em: I hope not ’cause my heart can’t take it. 

Christine: No, I can’t take that. No, sorry. That’s not even– 

Em: I think he just loved the grass. That’s what I think. 

Christine: I mean, clearly he just loved the– being on the run, you know. 

Em: [laughs] He just likes– 

Christine: Being a free man. 

Em: –to spread his wings, okay? 

Christine: I get it. I get it. Aw. 

Em: Oh, all right. I’m also going to scrim to the potty. 

Christine: [chuckles] Okay, see you in a minute. 

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Christine’s Story – The Turpin Family (revisited) 

Christine: All right, I have, um, a pretty wild one today [sighs] because it’s one of those, again, that I have not heard of but saw like, um, a headline about recently, and it wasn’t that recent. Um– 

Em: Mm? 

Christine: –the original discovery of the crime was 2018. So I don’t know how I missed all this, especially hosting a true crime show. Maybe I’m just more in the know now. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um, but yeah, this is the story of the Turpin family, and– 

Em: What? Girl, we’ve covered this. No? 

Christine: I don’t think so. Have we? 

Em: Even– I– Maybe not, but even I’ve heard the name. 

Christine: Uh, well, se– May– Okay. 

Em: Hang on. I’m googling here. Hang on. 

Christine: Oh boy. Imagine. 

Em: Turpin. 

Christine: Oh no. 

Em: It’s okay. I don’t remem– Uh, oh. No, Louise Turpin. 

Christine: Oh, shit. 

Em: David and Louise Turpin. Bitch. 

Christine: Yep, that’s them. 

Em: Well, hey, you know what? You said 2018, and it was episode 57. It was literally 2018. 

Christine: Okay, but can I tell you something else? 

Em: So this is updated. This is gonna be the updated version. 

Christine: The notes I have are based on information from 2022 and 2026. 

Em: This is gonna be fun. You finally get– 

Christine: Okay. It’s an update. 

Em: This is gonna be one of those episodes where you get to see like how your research has changed– 

Christine: I knew I was– 

Em: –throughout the years. 

Christine: Wow, I knew these fuckers looked, looked familiar, and I was like, “I must have just skated on by this one. Like, how did I not–“ 

Em: No– 

Christine: Wow. 

Em: –it was literally over 400 episodes ago. I think we could all use a refresh. 

Christine: I’m so glad you remembered that though. 

Em: Never in my life would I have ever been able to do it. I don’t know what just did that to my head. 

Christine: You just– The Holy Spirit [chuckles] kinda stepped in– [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] Truly. Something, something psychic happened just now. 

Christine: It was probably like me falling asleep like in that one episode– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –and I like transported, astral projected over here and just reminded you real quick. [laughs] 

Em: Can someone in the comments, by the way, please tell me, if you’ve listened to it recently, what is the episode where Christine fell asleep? Because I would– 

Christine: No. [laughs] 

Em: –love to listen to that again. 

Christine: Don’t find it. [laughs] 

Em: I– It’s so hard because no one– 

Christine: You’ll never find it. 

Em: We didn’t record video back then, so like the only way anyone knows– 

Christine: Thank god. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] I, I would have killed– I would watch that every day. It would be my screensaver. You just going– [Em closes one eye, squinting and lowering their head as if trying to stay awake.] [laughs] 

Christine: We barely record this– film– video this– these days with the way that I forget, uh– 

Em: No, I, I would love to be able to go back and listen to that. And the only way anyone would know it happened– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –is like it– we cut to like an ad, and then it goes, “Hello, it’s the next day.” But– 

Christine: “It’s the next day.” [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] [sighs] 

Christine: Oh my god, I’m so embarrassed. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, okay. [laughs] So this is clearly a repeat. However, I’m really shocked actually now that I did cover this in 2018 because that was like fairly breaking– I mean, you know, not breaking– 

Em: Yeah, and you, and you like– 

Christine: –but like a lot of the information had not come out yet. 

Em: I was gonna say– 

Christine: So I don’t know what the hell I was talking about. [laughs] But– 

Em: No, I think you were like probably trying to do something that was topical, but like in your– 

Christine: Wow. Good for me. 

Em: –in your later years though, I know that you like covering things where you have all the information. So like– 

Christine: I do. 

Em: –I know a lot of people have asked, you know, why you haven’t covered certain topics, and it sounds like it’s– often they’re like ongoing cases, and you want to– 

Christine: Of– Yeah. 

Em: –be able to just give all the information at once. 

Christine: You know, I– I’m so also glad you said that because I’ve thought about that recently because I’ve been following the Nancy Guthrie case. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: By the way, have you seen any more on that since we talked about it? 

Em: Hon– This is a dead honest answer. I haven’t watched any of it because I know eventually you’ll cover it. 

Christine: Oh. Ooh, okay. 

Em: So– 

Christine: That’s really– That’s– 

Em: All I know is it’s so, so sad. And I saw the– 

Christine: It is terrible. 

Em: –the camera footage– 

Christine: Okay. It’s creepy. 

Em: –that came out today. Yeah. 

Christine: It’s really creepy. Um, so yeah, they, they took someone in for questioning, and then they released somebody for questioning. So it’s all very confusing, but, um– And then of course, everyone’s like analyzing the body language of the videos the siblings have [sighs] posted and the verbiage because it’s similar to Silence of the Lambs, but also like Silence of the Lambs is based on the way an– the FBI like actually works. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And so it’s like, of course there’s probably similar verbiage used in both. It– Anyway, the whole thing is kind of like a minefield right now for– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um– 

Em: It’s just– It feels too, too hot. We got to let it simmer. 

Christine: It's like volatile, yeah. And I’m like– And I love to watch people cover that. I just don’t know that I’m the one– [chuckles] I don’t know that I’m like the one to be on top of it the way that– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –a lot of these creators are. Um, I’m thinking of Annie Elise specifically, ’cause last night I was getting in bed, and I saw she posted an update in her pajamas. And she was like– 

Em: Oh, really? 

Christine: –“There’s just been an update in the case. Like my friend who’s on the scene,” and I’m like, “Whoa.” 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Like this is the kind of like content creator where I’m like, “Damn. Like you are, you are serious. Like you’re putting in the work.” Um– 

Em: Good for her. No, I, uh, I don’t know anything except that it bums me the fuck out, and I just can’t imagine– 

Christine: Yeah. [sighs] 

Em: –having to– being in that position. And is she still like going to work and reporting the news while this is happening? 

Christine: I don’t think so. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: She was supposed to go to the Oly– the Olympics and then her enti– She and her entire team ended up staying back– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –to like support her. Um– 

Em: That’s nice. 

Christine: Yeah, which was sweet. But yeah, I don’t– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Yeah, she’s just kind of– They’re going through it, man. But then she posted a video, and it was, um– She had like makeup on and for something– for some reason that like struck me as odd, and I thought like, “Is this somebody who’s like obsessed with her? Or wants her mon–?” Like I don’t know. Something just was weird about it ’cause suddenly she’s wearing makeup, and she did a solo video, and I don’t know if that’s just ’cause she’s like kind of the, the main face of this family in the media– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –or what, but it just struck me as really odd. So I don’t know what information they have, but I don’t think they’ve been given proof of life, um, verifiably. 

Em: I– 

Christine: And the weird thing is too, the ransom letters are going to the media, TMZ, and, um– 

Em: So like it’s a– they absolutely want this clout. 

Christine: But– Yeah, but– 

Em: Yeah? 

Christine: –they’re not sending– They’re not communicating directly with the FBI or with the family. And the family and the FBI are like, “Talk to us.” And it’s like, “No, they only go to TMZ.” 

Em: No, they clearly– they’re– they want the attention. It’s– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: That’s so gross. That’s so sick. 

Christine: Yeah. It’s really disturbing. Um, so anyway, here I am, I guess, covering it now as it’s happening, but– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –I usually am not, you know, that, uh, that kind of a reporter. So this one, I guess I did do some sort of overview in 2018. I’m curious to actually go back and hear it. Um, but now we have so much more information thanks to good old Diane Sawyer who did multiple interviews, um, with the Turpin children, uh, beginning in 2022. So that’s where a lot– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –of this information comes from. So this should be pretty much slightly similar– 

Em: Brand new. 

Christine: –and slightly totally brand new. 

Em: Cool. 

Christine: Okay. So just as a refresh, on January 14, 2018, at 5:49 a.m. P– in Perris, California, 911 dispatchers received a call from a girl claiming to have run away from home. They asked what str– uh, what street she was on, and she didn’t know because she’d, quote, “never been out.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: She didn’t even know what sidewalks were, so she was walking in the road. 

Em: Didn’t know what a sidewalk was? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: How old was she? 

Christine: She was 17. 

Em: Wow. So she was– Okay. O– Okay. 

Christine: She’d actually never spoken to someone on the phone before. She was shaking. Her voice was clearly extremely nervous. She explained to the dispatcher that she was from a family of 15 and that she and her siblings had, quote, “abusing parents.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: When asked for details, she explained that her two little sisters were at home chained up. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: And– Yeah, sounded absolutely beside herself. They connected her with the sheriff’s department who asked for her address. Um, she actually had to pull out a piece of paper where she’d written the address because she didn’t know the address. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: And at first, she actually read the zip code by accident instead of the uh, instead of the street address. And when asked, “Are you on any medications?”, because they’re thinking, “Is this someone who’s gotten– Like a teen who’s gotten into something?”– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –she said, “I don’t know what medication is.” 

Em: [gasps] Oh. I know how I know– They, they popped up on my TikTok recently. 

Christine: Same with me. 

Em: Okay, that’s how I know this. Okay. I– 

Christine: It’s because, uh, last week Diane Sawyer released her second special– 

Em: Ohh. 

Christine: –uh, since the one in 2022– 

Em: Got it. 

Christine: –with three of the siblings that have now become adults and are now doing interviews. So there’s been like quite a lot of buildup. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: So that’s probably why we both saw it on our feeds. [chuckles] That makes sense. 

Em: I was gonna say– Makes sense why– Of course. Why did I think my first thought was, “Oh, I’m psychic,” and that’s how I remember f– episode 57? Um, but, uh– 

Christine: Listen, I was, I was really ready to believe it. I still kind of do, so. 

Em: Wow. Okay. So I, I still don’t know this story. I just saw a video of the “I don’t know what medication is,” or “What’s medication?” 

Christine: Yes. “What’s medication?” 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: “I don’t know what medication is.” And she did know what medicine– When, when they said “medicine,” she was like, “Sometimes I get Robitussin,” but, you know, really– was clearly out of touch– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –in, in many ways. So she finally got the address right. She was able to say it aloud, and they sent a deputy out to her location in a quiet suburban neighborhood in Perris, California. And that’s P-E-R-R-I-S. Her name was Jordan Turpin, and she was 17 years old. In the middle of the night, she had climbed out of a first-story window with an old cell phone in an attempt to save her siblings. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: All the while, she was terrified that her parents would notice she was missing or look out a window and like maybe see her under a streetlight. She said, quote, “I know how they are. They wouldn’t care if police were coming. They would just kill me right there.” And that’s– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Yeah, that’s what she told Diane Sawyer in that 20/20 interview I mentioned. She told the dispatcher, “We live in filth. Sometimes I wake up and I can’t breathe because of how dirty the house is.” Dispatch asked, “When was the last time you had a bath?”, and Jordan said, “Almost a year ago.” So one other scary note, like just to put this all into context, is that the dispatcher knows that if this call drops or Jordan hangs up, there is no way to contact her again. Um, she’s using like one of these obsolete cell phones that don’t have any service, but you are able to call 911. And I have always wondered like if those work, you know, where it says like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –call– dial out to 911 is the only feature. Um, but it looks like it really did work. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: It could only make an outgoing call to 911. So if this call drops or if Jordan hangs up, they would have no idea where she is, how to get contact with her. 

Em: Oof. [sighs] Oh my god. Okay. 

Christine: So they’re trying to keep her on the line, and, uh, they send, uh, deputies out to– a deputy out to, to check on her. When asked who her father is, she said, “David Turpin,” and said she didn’t know much about her mother because, quote, “She doesn’t like us.” Oof. 

Em: [sighs] Oh my god, that’s so sad. 

Christine: It is. She lists off her 12 siblings and their ages. Okay, their ages range from 2– Well, I’m just gonna read them. 2, 11, 12, 14, 16, (she herself is 17), 18, 19, 20, 22, 23, 25, 29. 

Em: Even the 29-year-old is like still there probably or–? 

Christine: All in the house. 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: All in the house. 

Em: A fucking 30-year-old like what? Chained to walls and shit? 

Christine: Pretty much. 

Em: Oh my god. Like how do you even keep a 29-year-old in a house for 29 years and–? 

Christine: Oh, you’ll see. Yeah, it’s not necessarily chains. It’s more, um– I mean, that does happen, and so that’s why I said sort of, but, um– 

Em: It’s like more mind games? Like– 

Christine: A lot of psychological– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Right, exactly. Abuse and that kind of thing. Um– Oof. And like threats, you know, all that good stuff. So [sighs] 6:11 a.m., the deputy has arrived, and this is where it’s like much more, um, jarring and real because you see the body cam footage. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Uh, I’m gonna send you a picture of Jordan just because, throughout this story, I just was really struck by how, uh, different over the years like she– as she like healed, as she, um, you know escaped this– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –uh, just how, how you can see her, you know, like heal, uh, just by the way she like carries herself and stuff. And honestly, in this first, um, picture I’m sending you– Hang on. It’s just– It’s hard to see, but it’s her, it’s her talking to the deputy who arrived. And I also want to add that like she hadn’t– she said she had never had a conversation with someone before. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: So she was basically like totally out of her element. 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: They thought she was like young, you know. She was 17. She kind of behaved like she was much younger and like socially– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –you know, not aware of– 

Em: She’d never fucking talked to a person before. She didn’t even know what her– 

Christine: Yeah, exactly. 

Em: –address was or the word “medication.” Oh my god. 

Christine: [sighs] Yeah. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: So– And she, she– 

Em: And you said something earlier that sounded– Did you say like she had abusing parents or something? 

Christine: Yeah. Mm-hmm. 

Em: It sounds like her English isn’t all that 10 out of 10 either. 

Christine: She has a– quite a limited vocabulary, and they– and she uses strange like– not anymore, but she used like strange kind of lilted like, uh, syntax and stuff, which ends up– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –for sure being part of just growing up in this environment. Yeah. 

Em: Sure. No, I imagine like not speaking to anybody, you’re gonna– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –almost create your own like dialect or something or your own– 

Christine: –with your own, with your own siblings. Yeah. 

Em: Yeah. Okay. 

Christine: So it was now an hour and a half after she climbed out the window. Um, the sun had come up, and Jordan was safe in police custody. Deputies arrived at the house, and they basically got them to open the door. And they knocked for about, I think, four and a half minutes– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and when the couple opened the door and were like, “What’s going on?”, they said, “We’re coming in.” And– 

Em: Good. 

Christine: –I need to send you this picture. [chuckles] It’s like– Okay, this is a picture of the body cam footage– from the body cam footage of David and Louise Turpin at the door. Um– 

Em: Eugh. 

Christine: I know. I know. It’s just– 

Em: They look like, like caric– caricatures of like bad people. 

Christine: Yes. Yes. Okay, good. [chuckles] I’m glad you say that because some of the, some of the photos that I’m gonna show you, I’m like, “This looks like a bizarre–“ 

Em: He looks like a f– Is that her husband? 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: He looks like a fucking doofus. Like he– 

Christine: Okay. [laughs] Wait till you see the pictures later. 

Em: He literally has the Dumb and Dumber hair-haircut. 

Christine: Okay, it gets so much worse. [laughs] It gets so much worse. 

Em: How does he have a middle part and bangs on– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –on the same fucking forehead? 

Christine: And you know– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –you know, we talked about this in 2018, and I just beg to know– 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: –what the fuck we said about this ’cause his mugshot was definitely out by then, and it is– 

Em: I can’t wait. His hair looks like buckteeth. 

Christine: Okay. 

Em: It’s like the dumbest hair I’ve ever seen in my life. 

Christine: [laughs] I’m literally sending you the scariest mugshots you’ve ever seen. Hold on a second. 

Em: [laughs] She’s also– Well. Not– I’m not usually someone who’s gonna judge someone for their looks, but knowing who they are, I don’t fucking care. 

Christine: [laughs] Just look at this picture. 

Em: He– Literally, I’ve never seen like– It’s like an– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: It’s– He’s like auditioning to be an idiot. That’s what he looks like. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Like he looks like he put a wig on to look stupid, but he just is. 

Christine: [laughs] It looks like a Dumb and Dumber wig. Like it really does. Um– 

Em: He– Okay. And she’s, she’s no prize either, by the way. 

Christine: [laughs] I mean, she’s scary. Like you– She’s like smiling. And I want to put into perspective like at this point, while she was going through this arrest process, she’s like, um– I put it later in my notes, but I’ll say it now. She basically told people, “Well, don’t worry. When I get them back, I’ll never use chains on them again.” Like, that’s how delusional this woman was. So like– 

Em: I mean, you can see it in her eyes. She does– She– There’s something about her eyes that are– 

Christine: Totally. 

Em: –s-si– I don’t– You know. They– She’s not all there. Her eyes are– 

Christine: She's not well. She’s not well. And like you can see that clear– plain as day and like the f– 

Em: The soul is gone or something. 

Christine: Yeah. It feels empty. And like the fact that she’s smiling at the camera like, saying things like, “Oh, I’ll never use chains on them again. I promise,” and thinking like she’s gonna go home that afternoon. It’s just all very sinister, you know. 

Em: Yeah, I understand. I agree. 

Christine: So. 

Em: I fully agree. 

Christine: Yeesh. 

Em: He is a r– I’ll never forget him. 

Christine: He– [laughs] 

Em: I mean, I apparently already did, but I– now I won’t. [laughs] 

Christine: First of all, you totally didn’t because you totally pulled that out of nowhere. Um, you totally remembered that episode somehow. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And um, also, yeah, he’s never– He’s gonna haunt us for sure. Um– [laughs] 

Em: If, if anyone has his haircut without ever having looked at you, I’m warning you now to please cut your hair. Um, because if I ever see you on the street– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –I’m gonna be like, “What is going on here?” 

Christine: Well, okay, and so the thing is when I saw the haircut, in some of the pictures I thought– 

Em: It’s, it’s literally a fuckass bob. It’s like Dora the Explorer. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] –I thought it was a wig, and s– 

Em: “Vamanos the barber shop!” 

Christine: [laughs] And then like later on, in– literally at trial, he has this– or not at trial, like in the courtroom, he has the same hair, but it’s gray now. And I’m like, “That wasn’t a wig. Like that was his real hair, and he still styles it that same way.” 

Em: I– You know, if I– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –if someone dared me to say something nice about him, I’d be like, “I can’t–“ 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: “I’m so impressed you have all your hair, but you really need it to be gone now.” [laughs] 

Christine: My– [laughs] 

Em: Like, “Good for you. Like show it off, I guess. But yuck.” 

Christine: [laughs] That’s what it is, right? Like I don’t know what else– why else you would do this. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: It’s such a strange way to do your hair. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Like it’s not even like it’s easy to keep– upkeep, you know? Like that– Like that’s a– Like what are you doing? You have to– 

Em: He looks like he’s– he put on like his– 

Christine: –cut your bangs. 

Em: –he put on a wig to impersonate his– like, like a woman. 

Christine: [laughs] Yes, it does. 

Em: Like he looks like a Karen on– 

Christine: It looks like a wig. Yes, yes. Totally. It looks like blonde lady wig or something. 

Em: She deserves the same amount of hatred. He’s just– This– His is easy though. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: That’s just an easy low blow. 

Christine: He just really– He just really made a decision and stuck to it is what I’ll say, you know. 

Em: I hope nothing I said was cancellable. However, he deserves it, I think. Um– 

Christine: Listen, I don’t think any of us are gonna be, uh, rooting for this guy, so. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: [sighs] All right. So they get to the house. They knock on the door. They’re like, “It’s the police,” and they’re like, “What? What’s going on?” And they tell the family, “Oh, there is a girl that was–“ I don’t know how they phrased it. It’s like a very careful way that they spoke to not let the parents know which child it was. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: They were like– 

Em: Oh, that’s smart. Thank god. 

Christine: I know. It was like really tactful. Um, and they said, you know, “A girl said she’s from here,” and she’s like, “From where? From this house?” And they were like, “Maybe.” And she’s like, “Which girl?”, and they’re like, “We don’t know her name.” And she’s in the police car, meanwhile, over here, like full name, every– details. 

Em: She had to be sweating fucking bullets. 

Christine: She was terrified. Terrified. 

Em: I can’t imagine. 

Christine: And one of the, uh, the deputies who was with her was like, “You don’t have to look. You don’t have to even–“ 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: –think about it. Like, look away.” Um, ’cause she was just scared that like they would drag her back in, and she’s like, “I know they would kill me. They would kill me,”, um, whether the police were looking or not, that didn’t matter. And like– 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: –that’s how she was tol– really life or death. 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: So– 

Em: Let’s talk about his hair again, the fuckass bob. [chuckles] 

Christine: I know, right? It’s like– 

Em: All of a sudden, I feel really justified in everything I said. 

Christine: What a piece of shit. [sighs] Um, and by the way– 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: –it is important in that picture to notice where that fuckass bob is standing because it’s blocking a particular angle that was hiding two more– It wasn’t hiding, but it was covering two more bedrooms, like concealing two more bedrooms– 

Em: Ooh. 

Christine: –where they found the rest of the children, ’cause, remember, there are so many here. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: 13 of them. 

Em: Wow. Hm. 

Christine: So as all this is going on, um– By the way, police walk in, and you can hear, uh, this fucking guy– you can hear David say, “Do you have a warrant?” And they go, “Oh, we don’t actually need one. Thanks,” or something like that. Like it’s like this very off-handed like– 

Em: Doofus McDumbass. Are– Like what– 

Christine: Really. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: It’s so dismissive. It’s like, “Oh, actually–“ 

Em: “We’re okay.” 

Christine: “–we don’t need one. Thanks for checking.” You know, like it’s so dismissive and like well said and, uh– Because children are– They have reason to believe children are in danger on this property, they can walk right in, you know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, and so they’re like, “We don’t actually need that.” Like [chuckles], “Thanks for your concern,” you know. 

Em: Well, it sounds like they– I mean, it sounds like they don’t know what a warrant is, right? Like– ’Cau– I mean, it doesn’t sound like something they– that occurs to them. 

Christine: To the–? 

Em: Like the– He’s the one who said this? The, the guy with the bob, he said, “No, we don’t need a warrant.” 

Christine: Oh, no, no, no. Sorry. He told the police, “Do you have a warrant?” You can hear him like trying to– 

Em: Oh! This whole time– Imagine it my way though, because– 

Christine: Oh no. Oh no. 

Em: –it sounded like the cops were saying like, “We have a warrant,” and the guy going, “We don’t need that. Thanks.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: And just like– 

Christine: Oh, that’s way better. No, I wish that’s how it went. [chuckles] No. 

Em: Sorry, I’m so primed to just hate this man. Okay, sorry. 

Christine: No, he is still equally stupid, and he’s, he’s like, “Do you have a warrant?” And he’s like trying to stand up for himself– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –somehow, and they’re like, “Actually, we don’t have– we don’t have that or need it. Thanks.” Like, “Thanks for checking on me, bud.” 

Em: Totally– Got it. 

Christine: You know, like just dismissed. 

Em: I got it now. 

Christine: And, uh, they’re like, “Well, we’re packing, so it’s really cramped in here right now.” And I gotta say, that is an understatement. Um, I want to add that as all this is happening, by the way, Jordan’s older sister, who’s the eldest, the 29-year-old– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –Jennifer, she knew about Jordan’s escape plan. So she was basically like hearing a commotion, and she didn’t know– 

Em: Oh, shit. 

Christine: –like if the police were bringing her sister home, if like they had gotten help finally. You know, she didn’t know what the outcome was, so she’s terrified as well. She’s in– waiting in her bedroom. She hears knocking on the door. They say, “It’s the police,” and finally, this family, these kids realize that they’re actually being taken out of this house. 

Em: Mm. Which has to be also on its own scary because they’ve never been outside. Like even if they know they’re being saved– 

Christine: Oh, terrible. Terrifying. Terrifying. 

Em: Or maybe not because I’m sure they’ve been told the police are bad or something, so. 

Christine: No, they just didn’t even really understand. They didn’t even really have an understanding of like, yeah, the outside world. And– Yeah, I don’t know. I don’t know the right way to put it because there was also a lot of trouble they faced because they weren’t familiar with the outside world– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –got taken advantage of, you know, um, troubles in foster care, that kind of thing because they were not properly prepared for the real world, you know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, so there were– Yeah. Yeah, there were both sides. So inside the house, deputies were horrified to discover that things were basically exactly as Jordan had described but worse. Um, they find 13– well, now 12 emaciated children, some of whom are chained to their bunk beds. And by the way, like in the body cam footage, you can see that the, the mom like had thrown– They’re looking for the chains because she had taken them off. It took them like five minutes to open the door, and it’s because she was undoing the chains and hiding them– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –but she didn’t get to one of the kids. So one of the kids, uh, the chains were still on, and they couldn’t find the keys, and this poor boy was like in chains this entire time. Police are looking everywhere for the key. They can’t figure out how to get this poor kid out of this bed. I mean, it’s just all very harrowing– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and like upsetting to watch, just to give you a warning. Um, but the house itself too is just absolutely filthy. Uh, I’m gonna send you– I mean, how could it not be, right? You have like 13 people trapped inside. Okay, so I’m gonna show you some pictures. Um. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: This is like where– 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: And they were all sleeping in bunk beds, but you know, this is like a– I think like a two-bedroom house or maybe three-bedroom house. Um, and then just to add, we– There were recently released pictures of the house where the family lived in Texas, which, um– These are not current pictures. The person who bought the house most recently posted the– or, um, took pictures of the inside, but this is what their house looked like when they lived in Texas. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And it just gives you an idea of like– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Yeah, it’s– 

Em: Just filth. 

Christine: –filthy. 

Em: Like filth filth. 

Christine: It’s really, really– 

Em: Like it looks like someone– 

Christine: –upsetting. There was– 

Em: It looks like bodily functions– 

Christine: –feces– 

Em: –were just spread everywhere. 

Christine: Yep. There was feces on, on the walls. It’s just– I mean, you have a two-year-old living there, like under the care of a bunch of other children. It’s just– 

Em: So not justifying at all what they’ve done, this seems like a true mental health crisis as well. And they– Is that– 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: I believe on her part especially. I don’t quite know what’s going on with the fucking guy, but she– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –is struggling psy– uh, psychologically, yes. Or was, at least, at the time for sure. 

Em: I mean, if anyone else could see these pictures right now, it’s– I mean, it’s just fecal matter beyond compare just all over the house. 

Christine: There’s, there’s hoarding. Um, yeah, there’s, there’s a lot of troubling stuff. Um, and of course, it doesn’t excuse it, like you said. It just explains like the con– It gives context to like the– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –specific abuse they endured and like where that came from. So they arrest these two with those creepy mugshots. And like I said, she’s just planning on when she’s gonna get out– Please. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: It’s like that other guy from last week. He’s like, “When I get out of here, I’m gonna sue every one of you.” And it’s like, “Dude, you killed your whole family. You’re not coming out.” Like– 

Em: Yeah. [chuckles] 

Christine: –“You’re not, you’re not leaving. Get used to it.” These people are so delusional. Okay. [sighs] So the kids are taken to the hospital, and nurses and doctors, multiple, cried upon treating them because they were just so malnourished, um, so socially stunted. Um, some of them were so emaciated they had trouble walking. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: One of them had heart damage because of the malnutrition. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Uh, one of the pre-teenage girls had an upper arm circumference the size of a four-month-old baby’s. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Like this is how tiny they were. And it was just really horrific to see all this. And then as somebody kind of astutely put, like not just 1 child, but 13 of them, you know. It’s just really shocking. And on top of that, they’d clearly been in isolation their whole lives. They really had a lack of vocabulary, of socialization, of an understanding of the outside world. And Jennifer, the eldest, said that her first moment of freedom was dancing to music in the hospital, and that’s sort of when she realized like– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –“I have my own life now.” She says, uh, they went to a park, and Jordan, the other sister, was ecstatic to smell fresh air and remembers thinking, “How could heaven be better than this?” Like– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: –they really, um, they really had no understanding of the outside world. Um, I want to add to that in the Diane Sawyer– in the newest one that came out as we record this like last week, she said they’re still so filled with gratitude. They still like admire the sky. They still love to sit in the grass. Like they’re still just very, um, content. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: And like– 

Em: I mean, especially the 30-year-old? Like you’ve never known anything else. 

Christine: Right. And like finding beauty in things that most people just ignore, take for granted. So let’s get into how this even happened, right. 

Em: Please. 

Christine: ’Cause like of course we’re wondering about mental health and all that. So this all begins in a small town in West Virginia. There’s this shy, nerdy guy named David Turpin. He graduated from Virginia Tech, got a job at Lockheed Martin in engineering. Um, and then there was Louise Robinette. She, in high school, was in the Bible club, in the choir. She was six years younger than him. Um, when they got married, she was 16, and he was 22. But Louise’s sister recently told People magazine that he’d started making passes at her when she was as young as ten years old. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: So this girl was basically groomed by this man. Well, he was 16; she was 10. At this point– 

Em: Horrible. 

Christine: –they already knew each other. And it’s, it’s been described as she was being taken out of what we’ll discuss later as a very abusive, sexually abusive, household into another abusive household– is what her siblings describe. But, you know, she left her home to be with David. And when she was 16 and he was, uh, 22, they were married. They’d grown up Pentecostal, and with that kind of rigidity, they really had this like strict understanding of faith and adherence to faith. They got married and moved to, oh, Fort Worth, Texas. Hey, maybe I just subconsciously– 

Em: Jeez. And– 

Christine: Sure. 

Em: –my February 11, we’re very, uh– 

Christine: Ooh! That’s weird. 

Em: What’s happening today? 

Christine: Yeah, it’s weird. 

Em: Interesting. 

Christine: Um, so they moved to Fort Worth, Texas, where he worked at Lockheed Martin. And this is where things start to really fall apart because they tell family that God wanted them, and you know about this, to have as many kids as possible, which I think is Quiverfull, right? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Yeah. Okay. So they tell their family this, and their family’s like, “What?” But their family, remember, is, (a) abusive; and (b) like across the country. And, you know, you’re in like the ‘90s. Um, it’s just not– You’re– They’re not keeping track, and so– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –they don’t even realize like how bad things get. I do have a picture I’m gonna send you of the family like young because they do look relatively– 

Em: Like the Duggars? 

Christine: Oh, do they really? [laughs] 

Em: They look weirdly like the Duggar– And didn’t you say– Are all the kids’ names starting with J? 

Christine: Yes. 

Em: What the fuck is going on here? This is like– 

Christine: I don’t know. I didn’t even put that together until now. 

Em: Okay. Well, that’s just a-a-aside from everything else, but they literally look like video– pictures I’ve seen of the Duggars when they were younger. 

Christine: So yeah, I, I’ve sent this ’cause I’m thinking this is the most normal picture I have of them. [laughs] But the fact that it makes you think of the Dug– of the Duggars makes me so happy ’cause there really is not a normal picture of these two. They’re just like monsters. 

Em: Well, I mean, you’ve only shown me two pictures, but in both of them, she also just still has dead eyes. Like– 

Christine: It's like vacant, yeah. It’s, it’s sad ’cause just the way she treats her own children and– And it’s like, “God wants me to have all these children–“ 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: “–to lock up in their bedroom–“ I mean, it’s so strange and like sick. 

Em: I, I would love– not to understand because I couldn’t, but I would love to hear their understanding – maybe you’re gonna tell me – of like why God wanted them to have so many kids to torture. Like what– 

Christine: There's no rhyme or reason, as far as I can tell. 

Em: I just didn’t know if they even had their own like absolutely deranged opinion of it. 

Christine: No, they just basically said God wants them to have these kids, and I think then over time things just devolved. 

Em: [sighs] Jeez. I feel like they were like, “God wants us to have kids, and then the Bible actually didn’t say anything else. So like now what do we do with them?” 

Christine: Yeah. And they’re like, “Wait, now what?” Yeah. It, it’s so strange because it doesn’t really track like that that was the motivation, you know, but that’s kind of all we’ve got. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, so Jennifer, the oldest girl, who was 29 at the time of escaping this place, uh, she was born when her parents were 26 and 20, and she really struggled. She actually was the only child of the Turpin family to go to school– 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: –to go to any sort of schooling ever. She remembered it being extremely traumatic, kids calling her “skinny bones.” Um, she, she looks back, and she thinks like– She said, “I know I smelled.” You know– 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: –“These kids didn’t– I couldn’t understand why kids didn’t want to play with me.” And, and after third grade, her parents pulled her out of school, and no more Turpin children would ever go to school. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: So they moved to Perris, California, which was a small town 70 miles outside of LA. They begin to– or, they grow even more distant from family. At this point, they have 13 kids. You know, their family back home doesn’t even really realize how bad things have gotten. They’ve fallen out of touch. They put the kids in a trailer behind a house, and then they just left them there to fend for themselves. They would go off and like live in their own apartment, and once a week, they would drop off like very limited groceries. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And this was when Jordan was six years old. So the younger sister, the one who escaped, she remembers eating ketchup, mustard, ice cubes, leaves, grass, just to try and survive out there while her parents were off like gallivanting and like having date nights and– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: –living in their own apartment. The oldest, Jennifer, was forced to discipline the children. Um, her dad had these homemade cages he built that she was forced to either put her siblings in or then be punished much worse when they get– came home. So it was essentially like a lose-lose situation. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, deeply traumatic. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I can’t imagine even her guilt in hindsight of like– I mean, I know– Um, actually in hindsight, she’s probably like, “I didn’t have a choice. I– We were just surviving,” but the, guilt of like not wanting to put your kids– your siblings in fucking cages– 

Christine: No, exactly. 

Em: –and like now you have to and– 

Christine: And that impossible task of like being the oldest, wanting to protect them, being forced into– Yeah. It’s really sick. ’Cause like that’s part of the game, right? Like making them responsible for one another. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: I mean, it’s just really dark. So they leave them there, um, to survive– to attempt to survive. Meanwhile, David and Louise move into a motel. They begin going out to bars, drinking, having the time of their lives. His license plate is literally “DL4EVER,” which is “David and Louise forever.” 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Like it’s so weird. I’m gonna send you a picture of them together. Like now they’re becoming more and more just like unhinged looking as well. 

Em: Oh, “becoming”? Okay. [laughs] 

Christine: [laughs] “Becoming.” 

Em: [laughs] They– They’re there, babe. I don’t know what just– 

Christine: They are here. 

Em: Oh my god, they’re– And by the way, the picture that Christine just showed me is them at fucking Disney and like– So they can clearly afford to like not make their kids eat leaves and mustard. 

Christine: Correct. Correct. And like his shirt says, “Happiest Memories on Earth.” Like really? 

Em: Gross. 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: He– 

Christine: It’s so gross. 

Em: He reminds me of someone, [chuckles] but it’s probably like fucking Pennywise. I don’t know what it is. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: I hate this man. 

Christine: Just Tim Curry. Okay– 

Em: Not– [laughs] 

Christine: –you’re gonna freak out about the next one. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: You’re gonna freak out ’cause I’m gonna have to punish you with something. I’m so sorry, but it– I couldn’t not. Every time we scrolled past, I got upset, but I have to put it in here. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: Um, so just as an example of the shit they were pulling, the stunts they were pulling, they actually brought the kids with them to some of these outings. There’s a– 

Em: Shut up. 

Christine: Yes. There’s a group photo of them all at Disney in matching outfits. Um, they brought the kids to Las Vegas to get their vows renewed, and then they have the kids file in in matching dresses and like little suits to dance with the Elvis impersonator, and it’s like on video– like home video. 

Em: Ew. 

Christine: And the, the kids are like skin and bones and like are just happy to be outside. Like it’s just really dark. But here’s a picture from their vow renewal in Vegas. Um, and the hair– [laughs] The hair is really challenging for– 

Em: [laughs] It’s like carpet that hasn’t been sh– like tufted yet. Like it’s like– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: It’s just a big strand of like cur– It’s like curtains. 

Christine: It’s like if your hair was one hair. [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] It’s literally a Lego head. Like it’s just like– 

Christine: Yeah. [laughs] 

Em: He– Yuck. 

Christine: It just keeps getting worse, and like her hair keeps getting cooler. Like she has a silver streak, but like he just looks– 

Em: She can’t possibly look at him and think, “That’s my man.” 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Like she can’t– [laughs] She can’t possibly. 

Christine: His hair’s [laughs] so ridiculous. 

Em: She simply doesn’t have eyes if she– Okay, sorry. 

Christine: This is the– [laughs] This is the one where I went, “That’s a wig. It has to be.” And then I– 

Em: There’s no way. Honestly, honestly, I would believe that, given how gross and narcissistic they are, he’s bald as shit, and he is like, “I actually have to put this on so I feel good about myself.” 

Christine: Fair point, could really be a wig. I don’t know. But it sure looks like one, I tell you what. Um– 

Em: It liter– It’s Flopsy– 

Christine: [sighs] 

Em: –Mopsy, Cottontail over here. [laughs] Like it’s just– 

Christine: [laughs] But put it in a tux, you know? And it’s like, “What’s happening?” 

Em: Like if you’re paying for a wig, buy a good one. Like that’s– Anyway. And she– Again, no prize to her. She’s just easy– He’s just easy. 

Christine: She seems to be into it, Em. Maybe it’s just her thing. Here’s a picture of the whole family – um, of course, children’s faces blurred out. But we’ve got, um– 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: –dec– 

Em: Hey, guess what this– I literally can’t imagine anything more “Duggarific” than this. 

Christine: I mean, really [laughs] Duggarific. 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: Duggarific indeed. Because imagine in the background, you hear like [singing “Devil in Disguise” by Elvis] ♪ You’re the devil in disguise ♪♪ 

Em: [laughs] 

Christine: And it’s like, what is going on with these fucking people? Like [singing “Hound Dog” as sung by Elvis] ♪ Ain’t nothing but a hou– ♪♪, and they’re like dancing. 

Em: It’s– 

Christine: It’s so uncomfortable ’cause they’re all off the beat. 

Em: Oh-ho. 

Christine: And like it’s just really cringe. And like look how little– The one on the right is holding a little baby, like the two-year-old. 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: This two-year-old lives in the house with them. And like look how skinny they are. You know, these are like teenaged-age kids or pre-teen. It’s just really– 

Em: I– Yeah. 

Christine: And this is when the parents like wanted to put them on display, right? So– 

Em: Which like I can’t imagine being them and being like so terrified of like– Like they’re in such– If they never get to leave the house– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –and they’re, all of a sudden, here? Like I know that they’re petrified of like, “If I make any wrong move, the second we get to the hotel room I am so fucked.” like– 

Christine: 100%. 

Em: And like– 

Christine: Because they– 

Em: And no– 

Christine: –that’s what they– the threats. 

Em: Not getting to tell anybody? Not getting to tell any– Like there’re people right there. You couldn’t tell Elvis like, “Help–“ 

Christine: 100%. 

Em: “–Help me”? 

Christine: No, and, and the– There were a lot of reasons. So I showed you that last picture of them in the dresses because, in the 20/20 interview, Jordan explained like, “Then they brought us home to wear our filthy pajamas,” like after this. 

Em: Oh no. 

Christine: And like here’s just a picture. I just– It’s, it’s hard to look at, but it’s some of the clothes that they took out of the bedrooms. Like just so– 

Em: Like beyond soiled. They– 

Christine: Like soiled, yeah. Really foul. And so they were like, it was just all this creepy show, you know, where they would be taken out. Um– 

Em: Oh god. And like I can’t imagine even– I wonder what that did for them psychologically about like being given a gift when it’s like– 

Christine: Mm-hmm. 

Em: –I’m, I’m sure it’s not this way anymore or maybe it was never this way – but I would, I would start associating like getting a gift with like, “Oh, this is something we put on display publicly, but then as soon as we get home, throw it away. It was never yours.” 

Christine: Yeah. Well, you know, it’s interesting you say that because Louise actually suffered from what appears to me, to not an expert, not a doctor, to be a hoarding disorder. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: She had this like manic shopping addiction, and it was all to children’s toys, games, and clothes. And she would hoard them in the house but not let the children touch them or get near them. 

Em: Evil. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Evil. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: And also by the way, in that picture where all of them are at like that re– vow renewal– 

Christine: Mm-hmm? 

Em: –I just want to say it again for people: dead eyes. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Like there’s just– I– There’s something so soulless about her, and he looks like just like Justin Bieber, what we all thought he was gonna look like one day. 

Christine: [laughs] Yeah, like the photoshopped versions of him as an old man. Yeah, it’s so weird. Um– 

Em: Horrifying. 

Christine: –and just– It’s horrifying. And they weren’t even allowed– They were putting these dirty clothes back on, and there were brand new with tags in the closets, like brand new kids clothes, nice ones. There were toys still in the shrink wrap. Um, like, for example, they had about a hundred different collector versions of Monopoly, but the kids were not allowed to touch them. It was bad. Um, at one point, David Turpin files for bankruptcy. Um, but are David and Louise gonna take a hit? Of course not. 

Em: Mm-mmm. 

Christine: Their children can take the hit for them, right? 

Em: 100%. 

Christine: They start eating bread and peanut butter almost every day when they can get it. Um, the parents are, of course, eating like fast food and whatever they want, but the kids have to just kind of get by on sandwich bread. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Um, they even made Jennifer often prepare their meals for them, like their frozen dinners and stuff, but she wasn’t allowed to have any herself. 

Em: I can’t imagine like smelling actual food and then– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: –just eating nothing or leaves or some shit. 

Christine: And just like, like moldy bread. 

Em: Ugh. [sighs] 

Christine: So this Diane Sawyer interview I mentioned, it’s so good. Um, it’s really well done. I have a picture of that– from that interview just of how like happy and healthy they look. Like I just– They’re like glowing, the two sisters. That’s Jennifer, the eldest, on the left, and that’s Jordan who escaped that night. 

Em: Oh my god, look at them. 

Christine: I know. Aren’t they sweet? 

Em: Oh, they’re so cute. 

Christine: They’re so sweet. Like, they really are. And now three more siblings have kind of come forward into the spotlight a bit to tell their story. And they all just look– Like they’re just like glowing. Like, they’re all just so beautiful people. I don’t know. 

Em: They just full– Yeah, they look– 

Christine: They’re very strong people too, you know? They just– 

Em: Oh, yeah. 

Christine: There’s something about them. They’re just very self-assured. Um– 

Em: Good for them. 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. So they do such a great job like recounting this nightmare, and, I mean, even Jennifer being the oldest and saying like, “I remember when it was just me, you know, like being the youngest”– 

Em: Oh my god, yeah. 

Christine: –you know, think about that and like going to school and then– N– Yeah. 

Em: Also like imagine finding out that your parents– that your mom’s pregnant again and knowing that like another kid’s gonna come– 

Christine: [gasps] 

Em: –just to like have to deal with this. Like imagine how sad you would be. 

Christine: And it’s like your– And it’s probably on you, you know, the responsibility of caring for the kid. 

Em: [sighs] 

Christine: Yeah, it’s, it’s horrific. Um, and they, of course, were not in school, but they were registered as Sandcastle Day School with uh, teacher, Louise Turpin, principal of the school, David Turpin. But in reality, they were just leaving the kids alone in the house, um, and the parents went out and did their own thing. The kids would sneak out, like to talk to one another, outside of their bedrooms, um, of course, unless they were chained up, which was also a regular occurrence. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Uh, they would sneak bits of fresh air out of cracked windows, just to kind of get some air. They began teaching each other what they knew. So like [sighs] Jordan learned the alphabet from her sisters, you know, because they weren’t in school. And they were just kind of left in this house of horrors while their parents went out, and they had, you know, basic like– They had a TV with like s– channels on it. They had, um– One or two of the older kids had like a basic smartphone, and so sometimes they could like, you know, look things up or google things. But for the most part, they were really kept under lock and key, and you know, people have wondered like, “Well, yeah, why didn’t they just say something? Or why didn’t they talk to somebody or get help?” And it was always the threat of either “Nobody wants you. This is the only place that anybody would ever want you,” you know, just like that verbal abuse of like, “you’re just worthless trash, and like you’re lucky you even have this house,” you know? 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: So verbal abuse in that sense. Also, the responsibility and like the connection with your siblings, you know. Like you don’t want to risk– 

[In the middle of Christine’s black screen, “elgato” is written next to its logo. Underneath in smaller font, it says “– no signal –“] 

Christine: Oh, did my camera just go off? 

Em: Yep. Goodbye. 

Christine: What happened? 

Em: I don’t know. 

[Christine’s video reappears.] 

Christine: Sorry, folks. My camera died, and then I forgot what I was saying. Um, the reason we know a lot of this, I will add too, is that Jordan had a Barbie doll that she had been allowed to play with, and it had a little pink button on the belt, which controlled, as Jordan discovered, a toy camera, but like an actual camera, inside the doll. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: So she would kind of wander around sometimes and make little movies just for fun and film stuff in the house. So we like can see– 

Em: Oh my gosh. 

Christine: –some of that footage online, which is just crazy. 

Em: And her parents knew there was a camera in this thing? 

Christine: No, they had no idea– 

Em: Okay, okay. 

Christine: –which is why it was like such a damning piece of evidence. Because you know you see David Turpin and his fuck– fuckass bob like waving, like going off to Lockheed Martin to go to work and waving goodbye, and it’s like– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –“Your son is chained up in that room. What are you doing?” you know. Like you just see the filthy carpets and the fact that the kids had to like– By the way, they had to wait ’til dark because they were on this like weird schedule where, during the day, they slept, and at night, they were allowed to wake up and kind of roam around freely, um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –like caged animals. But like they had to keep all the blinds closed, and they had to duck. They weren’t allowed to stand up. They, you know, they were kind of restricted in that sense, but they got enough freedom that they were able to like bond v– you know, bond very closely with each other and stick up for each other. Um, and it was because of her little siblings being chained up and hearing– She said she couldn’t hear them cry another night. She was like, “I can’t hear them cry another night. So even though it’s life or death, like I have to get out of here.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And uh, yeah, it was just really remarkable. Um, when they are instructed– Or when they are, uh, taken somewhere, like Disney or whatever, um, they’re instructed never to speak to strangers. Uh, so that’s kind of part– There was a lot of stranger danger kind of put in their minds, like you were saying earlier like not, not to trust people, that kind of thing. 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: Um, “Nobody else wants you. Nobody would ever help you.” Um, so Jordan actually said that the threat they would get from her– the parents was that if they ever talked out or ever like got the parents in trouble that something called CPS, Child Protective Services, would come and separate all the kids, and Jordan basically believed that they’d end up in different countries and never see each other again. So like the fear– I mean, that was like her worst fear because it’s like the only people you know– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –your siblings, and you’re so close with them, and the threat of like, “If you talk, everybody’s going away. Like you’re never gonna see them again,” just– it really was effective. So they played on the ground in the filthy rugs um, unless they were chained up, and always at night. And, of course, this is so weird, Em. This is actually where Justin Bieber comes into the story. 

Em: What? 

Christine: I’m so serious right now. 

Em: Are you just calling the dad that? [chuckles] 

Christine: I’m not. [chuckles] I’m not. I hadn’t even put that together until you said it. But, um, Jordan discovered– So Jordan had kind of snuck one of her sibling’s smartphones, unbeknownst to her parents, and she discovered Justin Bieber’s music videos. 

Em: Oh? 

Christine: She became obsessed. Like she’s such a girly girl. Even now in her like Instagram, it’s all very like glam and like, you know, girly. She became obsessed with his music videos. Um, according– As Diane Sawyer said in the, in the, um, kind of promo, she said, “Never underestimate the power and reach of a teenage heartthrob.” 

Em: Yeah, [laughs] true. 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: Has Justin Bieber commented, by the way? Because I feel like– 

Christine: I don’t think so. 

Em: –they’re owed some merch. 

Christine: I don’t know. 

Em: They’re owed a video. [chuckles] 

Christine: I know. They’re owed like a Cameo or something, right? So Jordan was like totally fascinated by this outside world, and she began to realize there was like a whole world out there for girls like her. Um, she watched all of his interviews and learned vocabulary and communication through Justin Bieber’s interviews. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And – I know – the more she watched, the more she realized she wanted to be a part of the outside world. She w– loved High School Musical– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and would watch that and would just imagine like the chance to be in a dance– you know, in a dress, dancing with friends. Like it was just such a foreign concept. And here’s a photo of– So they had [chuckles] side-by-side the High School Musical scene, but then a picture of her after she made a dress out of discarded paper at the house– 

Em: Oh… 

Christine: –trying to like look pretty. 

Em: Oh my god. 

Christine: I kn– It’s heartbreaking. And she looks so adorable. But she made herself a dress out of paper– 

Em: Which like, go off, girl. Like that’s– 

Christine: Seriously. 

Em: That’s so sad– 

Christine: And she’s like beautiful. 

Em: –but it’s so sweet at the same time. 

Christine: And you can tell she looks so– she feels so pretty. 

Em: She feels very beautiful. 

Christine: And like it just really broke my heart. Um, so she used this smartphone and was watching all these Justin Bieber videos, and when her parents would leave, um, she’d make singing videos in the bathroom and post them like to, to TikTok or what have you. And one day, she got a comment, asking why she’s always inside and always at night. And she was like, “Oh, I’m not allowed to eat or get out of bed.” [chuckles] 

Em: Uh, jackpot. [chuckles] 

Christine: Yeah, yeah. And he’s like, “Um, you need to call the police.” And she was like, “I knew it. I knew something was wrong at my house.” Like she really was just– It was finally hitting her like, “Oh, this is not normal.” 

Em: Question. 

Christine: Mm-hmm? 

Em: Question before we move on ’cause this feels like the end of chapter one and into chapter two. Um, d– How– Did the parents not wonder why she knew songs? 

Christine: So she didn’t– No, she didn’t sing any of this in front of them. 

Em: Okay. 

Christine: It was only ever when they left. So and– The, the siblings kind of knew that– They’d pass her on the phone and stuff, but the parents did not know that the kids were looking at these kind of things. 

Em: So all the siblings were in on the phone thing. 

Christine: Yes, yeah. 

Em: Okay. And how, how’d we get the phone again? Like what was the reason for– 

Christine: Uh, two of the older siblings had access to a smartphone, and somehow, Jordan got her hands on it. And I don’t– I think it was like so that the parents could call them or track them or– Like it was something very– 

Em: That feels so risky for people who are holding 13 people hostage for 30 years. You would think they wouldn’t– 

Christine: But I think they’re– they get to the point where they’re so comfortable they’re like, “Eh.” 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: “They haven’t es–“ You know what I mean? Like she’s almost 30, and it’s like, “Well, she’s clearly just here now.” 

Em: “We can trust that she’s not gonna do anything,” yeah. 

Christine: Yeah, kind of. And it’s like, honestly, we don’t know if anything would have happened if Jordan hadn’t like gotten this idea in her head to escape, right? I mean, like– 

Em: Mm-hmm. 

Christine: –they could have kept them there longer. So this is horrid, because pretty quickly, I– she didn’t get caught singing songs, but she did get caught watching a music video– 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: –a Justin Bieber music video. 

Em: Oh no. Oh no, oh no, oh no. 

Christine: Yes. And her mother choked her in her bed until she was unconscious. Uh, she began to have serious nightmares about her mother killing her. And one day, “Mother,” as they called her– “Mother” and “Father,” by the way. One day, Mother says they’re moving to Oklahoma, start packing up. 

Em: Oh. 

Christine: And Jordan was like, “It’s now or never. I gotta fucking get out of here.” And, um, one detective on the case– I believe he was either a detective or a doctor, but he– very familiar with the case, and he said, “I don’t think all those kids would have survived the trek to Oklahoma. When we found them, they could barely walk.” And like they’re trying to shuttle these kids to Oklahoma, who knows how– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –and under what conditions. Like it just– The timing was now or never. She told two of her sisters, including Jennifer, “I’m gonna leave.” And they help her plan. So she draws a basic map, um, Jennifer does. She doesn’t quite know where everything is outside, but she tries to explain like the layout of the street and the neighborhood. They make sure to get pictures of the abuse to, to show proof. They call a taxi to get a quote. Um, and Jordan had seen the show, Cops, and when the taxi cost way too much money– Like they didn’t have hundreds of dollars for a taxi to come pick them up, Jordan was like, “I’ve seen people call 911 on Cops.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: And that’s where she had learned that. And so she took this like dilapidated old phone, this like defunct phone, and uh, you know, hid it. And the day before the move, she said, “I gotta go.” So she hid pillows under her blankets, climbed out onto the window sill, and hopped out. Sounds like [chuckles] fucking Scrim. 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: She’s hopping out of these windows, my god. 

Em: “Gotta blast,” yeah. 

Christine: Seriously. Wow. [sighs] So she hops out the window. And it’s like really chilling. You see the footage, the Ring footage from acr– or the doorbell footage from across the street. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: You can see like a kid hopping out and just like looking around and then just running. And that’s when she made this call that we started with earlier in the episode. 

Em: Did, did the neighbors know what was going on? 

Christine: So some of the kids have expressed frustration that the neighbors knew something was wrong and had to have known something was wrong but didn’t say anything. Um, same with the school system. The fact that like nobody clocked that this daycare was– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –a real thi– was a fake thing, and like– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –they were never checked up on, you know. A-and it’s hard because like most abuse allegations are– or are made through schools– or not allegations. Most like, um, inquiries are made because school, schools are mandatory reporters. And so like they’re not in any schools, and so there just is– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –nobody to advocate for them. And it– 

Em: It is wild though ’cause I would imagine– Like the neighbors, uh, you live across the street from a house of 15, and you only ever see 2? Like wouldn’t– 

Christine: I don’t even know if you would know though. 

Em: Yeah, maybe they didn’t even know there were kids that lived there. Oh my god. 

Christine: I don’t know if they knew how many at least. Um, but like also the blinds always drawn. Like I’m sure you’d think like something’s bad– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –but I don’t know that you’d ever even have any clue. 

Em: Sure. Yeah. 

Christine: But I don’t know, man. I guess– Oof, gives me the shivers. Yeah. So she made that call. Um, and we’ve kind of covered how the arrest happened, all that. So these two were charged with 12 counts of torture, 7 counts of abuse of a dependent adult, 6 counts child abuse, 12 counts false imprisonment. Louise’s defense took the angle that she’d been diagnosed with histrionic personality disorder and– Like they even used her saying, you know, “when I get back, I promise I won’t chain them up again,” as like evidence that she clearly didn’t understand the gravity of the situation. 

Em: Yeah. She’s clearly not with reality. 

Christine: She’s clearly out of touch. Um, they even have her sisters weigh in, and according to them, Louise, um, may have ended up where she did because of a very, very dark family secret (which I think we can all see just these horrible patterns reappearing again): ongoing sexual abuse from a very close friend or family member. We don’t know. Um, but some– They described him as very, very close and somebody that– 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: –they were meant to trust. And that’s kind of where that conversation about, um, her leaving one abusive household into another has come up with the siblings. 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: Um, I do have a picture of them at trial ’cause like now his hair’s gray, but it’s the exact same fucking bob. What is with this guy? 

Em: I can’t even look at it. Don’t– Please don’t make me do this. I– 

Christine: [laughs] I’m not gonna send you any more pictures of him. 

Em: And you know what? I have to give– Actually, I have to back up a little bit and give a little grace on that haircut because that was the era of Justin Bieber and Zac Efron High School Musical. Maybe that was– 

Christine: True. 

Em: –in vogue, but– 

Christine: Yeah, but I think like a 60-year-old man who’s like kidnapping children, you know, maybe like read the room. Don’t fucking– You’re not a hip teen. Like it just– 

Em: You’re not 16. 

Christine: –fucking heinous. 

Em: You’re not even a good dad. 

Christine: No, you’re– No. No. 

Em: You’re not a good person. 

Christine: Exa– 

Em: Nothing about you is good. Shave your head. 

Christine: Shave your head. Cut it out. Okay. 

Em: Give it up. 

Christine: So David refused to talk to investigators basically the entire time. Uh, they both plead guilty. And perhaps the only thing sadder– which like I hate to say this, and I’m sure this was not something I was able to cover in 2018. The only thing sadder, I think, than all of the above is that like they were pretty much fai– a lot of them, at least, were failed by the foster care system after their rescue– 

Em: Ugh. [sighs] 

Christine: –which like is just such a hard thing to hear after like such a daring escape and like finally being rescued. And a lot of things have slipped through the cracks. I mean, these kids had never been taught what a sidewalk was, let alone like– 

Em: Right. 

Christine: –how to handle a debit card. And it’s like h– you know, of course, people took advantage. There was a sexual assault allegation of one of the foster fathers. 

Em: Oh, fuck. 

Christine: And one of the daughters, the younger Turpin girl said like, “Oh, well, people can tell when you’re vulnerable and have issues and are looking for a father figure.” 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: “And like people ca–“ And she’s like, “I didn’t know that that was like, you know, gonna get me into trouble.” 

Em: And if there were signs you wouldn’t have even known about that. You wouldn’t have never heard about it– 

Christine: Right. 

Em: –or like after all the abuse you just went through being like you’re, “At least I’m not chained to a bed now.” So like– 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: I mean, it’s like comparing– It’s, uh, replacing traumas with other traumas and not knowing how to react. 

Christine: And– Yeah. They were often passed around. There were comments too on that note that like, “I, I know why your par– Now I know why your parents did this to you.” 

Em: [gasps] 

Christine: They got a lot of like verbal– 

Em: What? 

Christine: –I know – like a lot of verbal abuse from foster families. Um, there was talk of like, “Oh, look what your parents did to you. No– You know, nobody wants you.” Like it’s just really dark stuff. And like even in that in– 20/20 updated episode, they, they said– Diane Sawyer was like, “I just want to make it clear too like, of course, there are wonderful foster families, and it’s such an important job.” But just to hear like when things go wrong and aren’t– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –and people aren’t advocated for by like the people that are s– in the system that are supposed to take care of them, it’s just really hard to hear. Um– 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: –they were placed in dangerous environments. Um, one of the daughters was assaulted. They, they were often times, um, couch surfing, as in didn’t have a place to live. 

Em: Mm. 

Christine: Uh, I mean, the youngest was two, right? Like think about this. Like that’s just so hard. [sighs] Um, one investigator said like they had no sixth sense about the world, about who was safe, who wasn’t safe. They were just– 

Em: Sure. 

Christine: –kind of dumped out in the world. Um, and so what happened– And like the other thing is like they raised a lot of money through the public, but like the kids were not really given access to it. So it’s like they don’t really know what ever happened to it. And then this one woman, Vanessa, who was meant to be helping the kids transition into the real world, she like didn’t help. She would– Like when they’d ask for help with like the bus system, she’d be like, “Google it.” Like she would just seem like– 

Em: What? 

Christine: And she got fired a– She actually got fired. 

Em: Good. 

Christine: Um, one of them– 

Em: They need, they need help, bitch. What do you mean? 

Christine: –needed help with getting dental benefits, and she, she was a hor– I mean, talk about– Man. Wow. Talk about neglectful. Um, she, allegedly, you know, didn’t help them access dental benefits and just really was hands-off. Um, yeah, yeah. Really, really rough. And they did begin official inquiries in 2022 and reached a settlement with the Turpin siblings, but, um, as part of that settlement, the s– the department said that they did not admit any wrongdoing, um, whatever, you know, foster system that was. Uh, but as far as I can tell now, in 2026, from the updates, it appears that most of them, if not all of them, are thriving. Okay. 

Em: Okay, good. 

Christine: They’re all extremely close, like all 13 of them. Um, here is a picture of Jennifer’s gothic wedding, Em. 

Em: Shut up. 

Christine: I know. It’s just so– 

Em: What a dream. 

Christine: –sweet. And like they just look so happy. And then, um, this is– 

Em: [chuckles] They do. 

Christine: –Jordan, who now does– I mean, she is successful. She has, uh, an Instagram– 

Em: Look at her! 

Christine: She’s so sweet and beautiful. She has an Instagram with 359,000 followers. Um, and on her bio– 

Em: A-and not one of them is Justin Bieber? I’m pissed off. 

Christine: I know. 

Em: Like do something. 

Christine: And she hopes to be a motivational speaker someday, so that’s, that’s– 

Em: Incredible. 

Christine: And then like I said, there’s that newest special, um, where the, the youngest siblings decided to step forward and speak out. And it’s just amazing to think like that there are 13 of them and over the years like more and more might decide to like come forward, you know. 

Em: Yeah. 

Christine: Um, and we’ll probably hear more and more details as, as the kids become adults and share their stories. 

Em: Wow. 

Christine: So that’s the case– 

Em: Well done. 

Christine: –Turpin Fam. 

Em: And there’s 13 of the– How– Do we know how old the oldest is now? 

Christine: Um– [sighs] 

Em: She was 29 in 2018. 

Christine: 2018. Mm-hmm. 

Em: So that’s– 

Christine: My math is not– 

Em: Is it– So eight years ago? So she’s 37 now. 

Christine: Something like that. Yeah, that sounds right. 

Em: Mm. Wow. 

Christine: Yeah. 

Em: Good job, Christine. 

Christine: That’s just– I mean, it needed pictures. Like usually– 

Em: It did. 

Christine: –I feel like I can get by, but that man’s hair. 

Em: I’m so– [sighs] 

Christine: And people like– 

Em: I can’t even. 

Christine: I don’t know. And you know what really ticks me o– You know what Ts me right O? Is that I can’t even– Like we can’t even share these on Instagram ’cause we’re gonna get in trouble or whatever. And I want to– 

Em: [chuckles] 

Christine: –share them on YouTube or somewhere. Like I want you guys to just google it. 

Em: Just look at that man– In any picture you find of that man, the hair will be ass, don’t worry. 

Christine: Type in “David Turpin– David and Louise Turpin,” and you’ll see all sorts of versions of the hair. Um– 

Em: I’m so impressed with how they have all seemed to make like a, a somewhat of a full recovery. 

Christine: I know. They’re– 

Em: It’s so incredible. 

Christine: –a, a lot healthier than I think I could be. I mean, I don’t know obviously, but like wow. They really seem like they’ve been adjusting very well. Uh– 

Em: Yeah. Oh my gosh. 

Christine: –so that’s great news. 

Em: Well, good story, Christine. 

Christine: [sighs] Wowza. Well, thanks. Happy Wednesday, um, Em. 

Em: [chuckles] Thanks. You too. Uh– 

Christine: [chuckles] What’s your name again? 

Em: [chuckles] Yeah, it’s just literally a letter. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] 

Em: –I, uh– Yeah. Okay. Well, is that it? 

Christine: I feel like I just like hit a brick wall of like energy. I don’t know what happened. I’m like crashing. Oh my god. Am I gonna fall asleep again? [laughs] 

Em: [laughs] There she goes, folks. All right. Well, um, no, please, if you know that episode, please let me know in the comments ’cause I would love to listen. Um– 

Christine: [laughs] I hate it. I hate it so much. 

Em: Uh, we’ll see y’all next, next week. And– 

Christine: That’s– 

Em: Why– 

Christine: We– 

Em: Drink. 

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