E484 A Ghost Ensemble and a Witch Magnate

TOPICS: THE EGYPTIAN THEATRE PT. 2, ATHALIA PONSELL LINDSLEY & FRANCIS BEMIS

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It’s Episode 484 and we’re being haunted by our past selves and future ghosts. Today Em takes us to Illinois for their Part Two on the haunted Egyptian Theatres. Then Christine covers the frustrating case of Athalia Ponsell Lindsley and Francis Bemis, which remains unsolved to this day. And you all better lookout when we get our blackbelts in guitar and jiu-jitsu… and that’s why we drink!

If you’re 21 or older and interested in learning more about becoming a living donor for Mally, you can visit Yale New Haven’s living donor program at ynhh.org/organdonation or call the Center for Living Organ Donors at 866-925-3897.

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Transcript

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[intro music]

Christine: Hello and welcome to And That’s Why We Drink. Uh, we are here today to discuss all the things that make us imbibe.

Em: That’s right. Yes. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Uh, I’m– What– I– Today, I’m imbibing on a raspberry lemonade, a “raslem”, as you know. Um–

Christine: As a– as all the really hip people call it. Sure.

Em: It’s just a– one of those little powders. It gets me going. Every time I take a sip–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –I apologize to the YouTubers, ’cause you’ll see me roll my eyes into the back of my head every time I sip it. It’s so delicious.

Christine: Oh!

Em: It’s–

Christine: Apologies– I would like an apology just for myself also while we’re here.

Em: Just– You can look away. You just look over there.

Christine: Oh.

Em: Right over there.

Christine: Just close my eyes.

Em: It’s–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I’m not kidding. This– Like I’m try– I have to stifle my– the sounds that come out of me when I’m drinking. I’m like it is so delicious.

Christine: How–

Em: [sighs] It’s so good.

Christine: Oh.

Em: You know what? You’ll, you’ll see. They’ll all see.

Christine: Do you have any, do you have any T– [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “You’ll all–“ [laughs] First of all, calm down. Um, second of all, I don’t know that I wanna see. Third of all, do you have any Taurus in your chart? 'Cause you’re really getting–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –you’re giving me some Taurus vibes. And you–

Em: Oh?

Christine: As you know I’ve been studying my astrology, and I’m just like– you know, a lot of sensory– you’re very into like tastes and feeling– feels of like–

Em: Tha– Well, thank you.

Christine: –you know–

Em: I take that as a compliment.

Christine: –texture.

Em: I don’t know. I really, other than my big three, don’t know anything, just a– I don’t know.

Christine: You'll see. You’ll all see.

Em: You’ll all see. I’m telling you. What about you? Are– Do you have any Taurus in your chart?

Christine: I do. My Mercury is in Taurus. Isn’t, isn’t that fun?

Em: I think.

Christine: I didn’t realize that, and I learned that, and I thought, “That’s strange. That doesn’t fit me.” And then I kind of thought about it, and I was like, “I guess it sort of does.” It’s like direct communication, like kind of like straight to the p– like very like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –grounded communication, but I’m also like– I don’t know. I’m kind of a total airhead. So I feel like most of my conversations are far from grounded. So I’m kind of reconciling with Taurus. But you have Gemini. I mean, not to just know your chart–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –but you have Gemini, um–

Em: All up in there.

Christine: –in your– in Mercury. Yeah.

Em: Oh, in my Mercury?

Christine: Yeah. So you’re–

Em: Interesting.

Christine: Yeah. So that makes sense for, for you. [laughs]

Em: As I’m pulling a hair out of my mouth.

Christine: I mean, you know, very Gemini energy. Yeah. But I don’t know what the Taurus about me says, but, um– Well, that’s exciting. I’m glad you got your eyes rolling to the back of your head over that gross looking water bottle. No offense.

Em: It does look gross. I– Every time I see someone with a water bottle and there’s something not clear in it–

Christine: Like a different color? Yeah.

Em: –I’m like, “What is going on?”

Christine: Same.

Em: What is–

Christine: Oh my god. I took a sip of Blaise’s water bottle. He didn’t know this. And I was like, “What the fuck?” It wasn’t like gin, but it was like some raslem situation, and I almost like vomited.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I was like, “I didn’t– I don’t like that it’s a mystery liquid in this water bottle.” Like a water bottle is for water.

Em: That’s– Well–

Christine: I know a lot of people disagree with that, but it– For me, I’m like, I have my cups for powder stuff, and I have my cups for water.

Em: I have my, um– I have that same feeling– Well, I have the anxiety of that happening every time I go to a restaurant and get iced tea ’cause I’m like, “What is your version of this? “

Christine: [groans] Could be anything.

Em: “I don’t want this.”

Christine: Could be anything.

Em: “I ordered it, but I don’t want it.” I would prefer safety, so.

Christine: Read the room.

Em: Yeah, ’cause some people are like– Like there’s one near us where– There’s a restaurant down the street where we’re like, “Oh, can we get an iced tea?” And they’re like, “Oh, do you want the–“ What’s it called? Like “–the fiesta tea?” And I’m like, “I don’t want that–“

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “–at all. That sounds like hell. Please just give me some dirty ground dirt tea water, please.”

Christine: That sounds like hell. Yeah.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: Oh boy. So, so you drink your raslem. Okay. Well, do you have a reason why you drink this week?

Em: Um, not an interesting one. It’s just– It’s so F-ing hot. The summer has come.

Christine: Mm.

Em: I don’t like it. I was really– Last, last week, two days ago, I went to the dog park, and I went with a blanket wrapped around me–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –and it was like nice and chilly, and like everyone was cozy. All of a sudden, hottest experience of my life. I–

Christine: Roasting.

Em: Sweating. Like then yesterday– Then I went to the dog park within– It was a 24-hour period. Yesterday when everyone was like, “The dog gets 20 minutes, and then we’re all going home. It’s like too hot.” [chuckles]

Christine: Oh my god, we’ve got to ration it. I mean, and like that’s when I see the raslem come out and I’m like, “I get it.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: 'Cause sometimes you really need like a hydration supplement, and like the vessel is gonna be a clear water bottle–

Em: It’s beautiful.

Christine: –and it’s just how it is today ’cause it’s just summertime. Get over it.

Em: I mean, is that s– your catchphrase now?

Christine: This is my, this is my Mercury in Taurus maybe.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: It's co– It’s coming into its own.

Em: “Get over it.” [laughs]

Christine: Get over it. Fucking close the door and kick a rock or two–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –you fuckhead.

Em: Were you trying to Jersey Shore that for a second and then f-forgot halfway through?

Christine: I don’t know. [laughs] Probably.

Em: [laughs] Open the door and fucking realize it.

Christine: Open the door. Realize it. Step through it. Fucking kick a rock or two and–

Em: –and–

Christine: –get with the program, buster.

Em: And fly the kite while you’re at it, so.

Christine: Fly a fucking kite up your own ass–

Em: You know what?

Christine: –if you will.

Em: Oh my. You know, and all I said was, “They’ll all see,” and that was crazy for you.

Christine: Wow. And that sent me into a tizzy. But you know what, Em? It was also inspiring.

Em: Thank you. You know what I miss? “Wake up and smell the coffee.”

Christine: Now, that’s good.

Em: Now, that one was a good one [unintelligible].

Christine: That’s really good.

Em: May she–

Christine: That’s really good.

Em: –rest in peace.

Christine: Remember that weird Folgers commercial where like the brother and sister–

Em: Like banged?

Christine: –were like making out? [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: You made a face like you didn’t know, and then you said, “Yeah, they banged,” and I went, “Oh, thank god we’re on the same page here.” Yeah.

Em: I mean, it’s for sure–

Christine: It was so gnarly.

Em: Like the banging part is certainly not on camera, but it’s before and after.

Christine: It’s between the fucking– Read the room, Boo Buddy, if you don’t mind.

Em: They should be kicking rocks in like separate rooms like with the door locked.

Christine: Uh, they should be separated for sure.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: They should open the door and d– then close it between them. [laughs]

Em: They’re like, “What’s the sh–“ They say like, “Oh, my Christmas gift is you.” I da–

Christine: [laughs] [screams] Ahh!

Em: I, [laughs] I dare you– Hey, hey, hey.

Christine: Hey!

Em: Hey, I dare you. For Christmas–

Christine: Uh-huh?

Em: It’s around the corner.

Christine: Don’t–

Em: I want you to just– [laughs]

Christine: Don’t say that.

Em: I just need you to put a bow on your stupid fucking head and walk over to Xandy and say– [laughs]

Christine: Don’t say that. If you don’t think that we have already played this joke on our own family–

Em: Have you? [laughs] Okay.

Christine: Like listen, when that came out, we were both– I think it was like we were in high school or something, and it was the worst possible time for everyone to make– be making like sibling incest jokes, and we were like, “This is not funny.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Um, but for a while there, it was the joke, and I think probably Renée spearheaded that campaign if I rec–

Em: 1,000%.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, you’re on to something, and I don’t necessarily look forward to the reboot–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –but it might have to happen. [chuckles] I don’t know.

Em: For the views? You’re telling me–

Christine: For the views?

Em: –you don’t wanna throw a, a bow on Xandy’s head and say, “You’re my gift this year.”

Christine: Yeah. Read the room, people.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It’s– The vibe has shifted.

Em: God, I’d pay so much. I would pay so much to see that. It would be beautiful.

Christine: To see sibling incest? Okay.

Em: Well, no, just the bow part.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Just–

Christine: Okay. Just the, just the bit.

Em: Just like the bit. I just want to see–

Christine: Got it. Phew.

Em: Just the one-liner and the reaction and then fade to black. That’s all I want.

Christine: Okay. Well, uh, we’ll– I’ll make sure to put a crossfade in there just for the fade to black, and I’ll put credits at the end f– with your name on it just to give you the kind of–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –kind of credit.

Em: Thank you. I appreciate it.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Now, other than the very, um, specific vision I just put in your head, why do you drink this week?

Christine: [chuckles] It– Well, certainly that’s now top of the list. Um, there are so many reasons. You know, it’s like every day I’m like finding a new reason to just have an existential crisis. But I think we’re all in the same boat, right? And then today, I woke up, and I thought I’m gonna post a Ti– a tarot reading on TikTok.

Em: Fun.

Christine: Huh? What? Who’s that? I don’t know. I’m a, I’m a Taurus. My Mercury’s in Taurus. So what– Nobody knows what that means.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: And so I am sort of trying to, you know, find out. And so I posted this video, and I’m kind of freaking out ’cause I’m like, “What am I doing?”

Em: Why?

Christine: You know that like imposter syndrome? 'Cause I don’t know. I do a lot of tarot, but I do it like at home by myself or with like –

Em: Oh.

Christine: –Blaise or my brother or my mother and that’s about it, or Leona, but she usually just ignores me. But, so I’m like used to doing it, but then I’m like, “Oh, it’s so–“ It’s odd to like have people like watch it, you know? So it’s ex–

Em: Well, ’cause you d– Like, uh, who’s gonna m-mansplain it to you in some way? Tarot-splain it?

Christine: Yeah, or just like it’s like putting yourself out there, you know, a little bit in a new way. And so, it’s fun, but I’m just exploring. And then also I drink because, speaking of exploring, I’ve been trying new things, kind of like you. Like, uh, I’ve ju– I’ve been practicing watercolor for fun, like I mentioned.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And, um, I’m actually today– And I’m literally my– I’m gonna just poop my pants. I’m so nervous. Um, I’m going to Blaise’s jiujitsu gym later–

Em: To do…? To watch him?

Christine: To do a class.

Em: Okay.

Christine: I know.

Em: That’s fine.

Christine: H-help. [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: [whispering] Help. [chuckles]

Em: Why are you scared? Just ’cause you don’t wanna– It’s performance anxiety?

Christine: I, I’m– Yeah, I guess. And I’m just like– I don’t know. I’ve never been to his gym before. Like th– It– Okay.

Em: Are you worried he’s gonna see?

Christine: I’m like worried he’s gonna see and also not see. I’m like I’m worried he’s gonna be there and then I’m worried he’s not– Like– Okay.

Em: Are you worried his friends are gonna say something?

Christine: Yeah. Well, no. Okay. So his friends are the ones who are so– Okay. So Blaise has been going to this gym for a while. And I– I’ve been– We’re very– Blaise and I are very independent in our own ways. Like we’re very clo– like very close when we’re together, but then like we have– Like you and Allison, right? Like very separate– Like we do our own hobbies, and then we like reconvene– [chuckles]

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –and discuss. And so he’s been doing jiujitsu for years now, and he teaches a, a foundations course. And– By the way, shout out to their gym ’cause it’s lovely. It’s called Bendu, and it’s in north side Cincinnati. And they are so welcoming, and that’s why I’m going because I’m just proving to myself like– Hey, Blaise and his friend, Blayne– by the way, shout-out to Blayne and Blaise–

Em: I’m sorry. I– Like actually that’s like–

Christine: Don’t even–

Em: Is this is an anime?

Christine: –get me s– Thank you.

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Don't even get me started. Okay. So Skylee also teaches– Shout-out to Skylee. She teaches the women’s class, and I’m excited and terrified. And they have kids’ classes. It’s just a very welcoming environment, and they built it– Blayne built it out of like a place that they were before that was not quite such a welcoming environment, let’s say.

Em: Mm.

Christine: So today, I’m finally joining the women’s class for the first time, and Blaise is like excited. I’m excited, and ahh! I just am nervous. But yeah, if anybody wants to, um– And apparently it’s very low-key. Like Blaise said, “Just, you know, it’s just more about technique. There’s no like crazy training or like exercising. It’s like very just kind of focused on like the basics of jiujitsu.” And I have no clue what I’m doing, but I’m really in this era of figuring out what the fuck is going on with, you know, the world. So I figured why not? Fuck it.

Em: That’s very cool. I think you’ll be really good at it.

Christine: Thank you. I don’t think so. But it’s fun. And it also looks a little bit like– I’m like, “Everyone’s just like rolling around with each other on the floor. It feels a little bit like–“

Em: [chuckles] Gay! No. Uh– [laughs]

Christine: Gay! Gay! And Blaise said that that’s part of the joke of–

Em: I mean, you and Blaise are gonna soon be able to roll around together. I don’t know. [laughs]

Christine: Oh, for the first time.

Em: For the first time. I–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I, uh– No, I have a friend, uh, not out here, but she came to visit, and she does jiujitsu, and she was like, “Let me just show you.” And then kablam, I was on the fucking ground.

Christine: You're on the floor. Right?

Em: And she’s itty bitty, and al–

Christine: That’s what’s–

Em: –I’m not.

Christine: That’s–

Em: And she– I mean, I know that’s like the whole thing. It’s like it’s not about– Anyway. I, I was KO’d before I was even aware what was happening.

Christine: Ah! I know. And like that happened to me when I was little. I was like 13, and my– I had this cousin– or, I do have this cousin, Magda, and she’s like just one of my faves. No offense to all my other cousins. But Magda is just like one of those people where you’re like, “Oh my god.” Um, and she would take me under her wing for the best and for the worst. [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: And one time– So she won this like– she won like the Austrian– I’m probably misquoting this, but like the Austrian judo championships like–

Em: That’s incredible.

Christine: –in like– Yeah, at like age 20 or something. I don’t know, something like that. And one day, I, I kind of like jokingly was like, “I could beat you up.” Literally–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –I don’t remember.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I just suddenly couldn’t breathe, and I was looking at the sky.

Em: You saw a little Tweety bird circling around you.

Christine: 100%. And I was just like– I couldn’t breathe. I like– The wind was knocked out of me, and I was like, “Cool. Yeah. Never, never making that joke again.”

Em: But how cool if you get, not even really good, just a little good, and all of a sudden, you just go, “Oh, by the way, Magda, I think I could kick your ass again,” and then, bam!

Christine: I would love to kick her ass! She– You know, she would destroy me. She coaches like the national– No, she doesn’t coach the national women’s soccer l– She coaches some sort of high-up co– women’s soccer. She’d probably still kick my ass, but man, I wanna try it.

Em: And I mean, I th– I really do think you would be very good at it. I don’t know what–

Christine: Thank you.

Em: There’s something in your spirit. It must be that Taurus and Mercury or some shit.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Can you imagine if after your first like big spar or, I don’t know, battle, whatever they fucking call it–

Christine: Yeah. Yeah.

Em: –imagine you throw some girl on the ground and they go, “Sorry, I’m a Taurus in Mercury. You wouldn’t understand.”

Christine: Oh my god. S– [fake giggles] Uh, and she’d be like, “Oh my god, me too!” [laughs]

Em: [laughs] I love girlhood.

Christine: I love girls. That’s why I’m excited. I’m like– And, and Leona’s gonna come ’cause they’re gonna pick me up. And then Bl– I take Leona home, and Blaise t-teaches his class, and I’m like, “Oh my god, we’re like all going to the same gym.”

Em: That’s very cute.

Christine: I’m so scared and so excited.

Em: Is Leona in class?

Christine: She’s not yet–

Em: Okay.

Christine: –but I think like in the next couple years, she’s gonna start. She really wants to.

Em: Yeah. No, I, um, I always told Allison that I don’t give a shit if our– like what hobbies our kid has. Like I’m not gonna force them into like a quote “common” sport, but like my only non-negotiable, espec– especially if we have a, a daughter–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –would be self-defense. You just have to know it.

Christine: Yeah. I just think at this point, like if you’re gonna pick a hobby, like let’s just–

Em: [chuckles] Might as well protect yourself.

Christine: –let’s do that one. [chuckles] Let’s do that one. Yeah. Um, and then watercoloring and poetry also for the softer side, you know–

Em: Precious.

Christine: –to cut with a knife, but like ps– like psychiatrically.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: That sounds bad. That sounds bad, but it’s– Yeah.

Em: To discuss, to just be philosophical and try to talk things out and–

Christine: Right. Like I’ll kick your ass–

Em: –be in tune your feelings.

Christine: –with words, you know.

Em: Yeah. I get it.

Christine: I’m an air sign. I don’t know if you know that about me.

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: [laughs] I’m very proud of you.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: I, uh– How long does it take for someone to like get like, um– I’m such an asshole. I was gonna call it a ribbon.

Christine: I–

Em: What’s the, the belt?

Christine: What the fuck do– A ribbon? [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: A belt?

Em: Go over to Blaise and be like, “Oh my god, your ribbons are so cute.”

Christine: “Oh my god. Can I tie it in a bow?”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “Can I tie it in a French knot? Can I braid it?” I know. It’s like–

Em: Well–

Christine: I, I– Y– I don’t know, Em. I don’t fucking know anything, and I’m like–

Em: Well, I was gonna say it mu–

Christine: I feel like a shitty partner. I’m like–

Em: It would be incredible for your– for the dopamine spike, though like how often are you getting them, you know. Like so I’ve been ta-taking guitar–

Christine: Oh, right. Oh, wow!

Em: Yeah. Fun fact.

Christine: Did not know. How is that going? Are you singing too–

Em: Bad.

Christine: –or just playing– Bad. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Do you get a medal– a ribbon for that?

Em: Well, so they go by like– It’s literally– I go to a little kids’ guitar place–

Christine: Good.

Em: –li– and I told them, “I need you to– I’m– This is not a moment where you get to like act all cool–“

Christine: “I’m a baby.”

Em: “—and you know chords and shit. I need you to treat me like I just got my brain yesterday.”

Christine: Total new. Yeah.

Em: “Um, and if you think what you’re about to say might be technically complex at all for like an eighth grader–“

Christine: Beginner.

Em: “–make it dumber.” Um–

Christine: Dumber.

Em: And one of the things they do at this like meant for children guitar place is that they go by like the– one of them, jiujitsu, karate, whatever. They go by the same belt system, but they use picks–

Christine: Oh, for guitar. [chuckles] Oh, picks! Oh!

Em: So I’m currently a white pick. Um, but then–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: –after you like learn a certain amount with them, then you get– like you have to– There’s a whole ceremony. You have to swap out the pick–

Christine: You go to blue?

Em: –with a different color. I don’t– I think it’s pur– I don’t fucking know. Um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: But– Oh, there’s a bug. I’ll kill it later. Anyway, I, um–

Christine: Wow.

Em: It was a gnat. We’re fine.

Christine: Mr. Miyagi.

Em: [laughs] That’d be crazy if I just picked it up and just went, “Oh! Anyway, I’ll get that later.”

Christine: [laughs] “Anyway, good luck with your martial arts. Okay?”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “I’ll be at the guitar with my black belt.”

Em: Anyway, I– But so– They– That’s the closest–

Christine: I can’t wait ’til you’re a black belt in the guitar and I’m a black belt in jiujitsu.

Em: That would be sick. And I’ll–

Christine: Now we’re gonna be a touring duo–

Em: Ooh, I’ll play all your theme songs when you walk out.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: It's gonna be like nothing anyone’s ever seen.

Em: By the way, when you get your black pick, there’s like literally– like you get your name on the wall.

Christine: Holy shit.

Em: I know.

Christine: I cannot wait for that day.

Em: Memorialized forever. So um, anyway, I’m glad–

Christine: Anyway.

Em: I’m very proud of you, and I, I hope you stick with it long enough to get one belt because then I just know in the magic that is ADHD is all of a sudden you’ll be a black belt very quickly.

Christine: It’s just– you know, it’s like the slippery slope that we love and hate.

Em: You need a, you need a reward, a fun little treat. And if the fun little treat is something you can also wear, are you kidding me?

Christine: Exactly. And it comes in colors, and it– I mean, come on.

Em: And you get to beat up boys.

Christine: Oh my god, I just want to beat up a boy so bad.

Em: I get it.

Christine: Uh, okay. I want to say one more thing before we get into the episode. Um, this part is like awkward and uncomfortable, but we have to discuss it because we want to be as transparent with you as always.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, we’re discussing ad placement today, uh, very briefly. We– First of all, if you’re like, “Fuck ads all the way,” I get it. Go to Patreon – ad-free episodes. Took us a while to get there ’cause it took a lot of logistics, but Megan and Jack are kicking ass making ad-free episodes on Patreon. Go to Patreon if you are like, “No ads for me.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, that being said, the episodes here obviously are still free as always, still long as F. Um, but we do want to give you a heads-up. We are tweaking the ad placement a bit, and I know that like u-unsettles some people’s routine and way of listening. So we want to make sure you know that before it happens, unless we’ve already put an ad in this episode, in which case, surprise!

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Um, but just so you know, um, we are shifting the ad breaks to basically keep up with industry standards, and we’ve done this– We’ve held back from this for a long time. Um, but I– We’re just gonna give you the, the reasoning behind it and the explanation of what’s happening. Um, our network QCODE, one of the reasons that we even signed on with them – um, they’re also known as Daylight – is because they have this very ethical collaborative sales model. Um, they’re– The way they do ads is meant to sustain. They– They’re called commercial islands. They’re meant to really sustain, especially smaller shows, independent shows, um, small businesses like ours where we have other shows on the network. All of our podcasts on ParaPods are already doing these commercial islands, but we wanted to let you all know first before we like made that transition, um, because we don’t want to just like s– upset the apple cart, right. Um, so it’s not gonna affect any like distribution platform ads. We don’t have control over if like Spotify and Apple are like harassing you on their own terms.

Em: Right. We apologize in advance for that–

Christine: I’m sorry about that. Yeah, that’s not–

Em: –if that happens. [chuckles]

Christine: –that’s not us. If you hear a cut like in the middle of one of our sentences and it goes to an ad, that is not us.

Em: No.

Christine: We did not do that. Jack is a very good editor, and he knows extremely well when to place the ads because he also gets all this feedback from listeners, right?

Em: Right.

Christine: So he was actually the one who really helped work out this plan for us. Um, we do these commercial islands now. Uh, the format: the pre-roll is gonna be the same. Um, there’s gonna be a first ad island after the intro dialogue, a second ad island halfway through Em’s story, third and fourth between our stories, and then, um, a, a potential fifth island during my story if, if one is p–

Em: It depends. Yeah.

Christine: It depends. Some episodes there will be, some won’t be. Um, so we just want to let you know that. Uh, and we know you’re like not here for ads or ad talk, but, um, we don’t want you to feel like we pulled the rug out from under you. Um, and you know, taking a break from touring and all this is, uh, you know– Ads are what kinda keep the podcast alive, and we don’t want to bother you with them, but we at least try to make them fun.

Em: Right.

Christine: Like we do have fun with the ads, and we, we do care about our sponsors a lot. Um, so if you don’t, if you really hate them, I’m sorry. You know, I know that it’s kind of a pain, but you can fast forward um, if possible. Um, I, I know on my AirPods, you can do like the skip forward.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Sometimes I do that if I’m like doing dishes or whatever. But anyway, um, we just wanted to keep you posted, and we’re trying to do this really as mindfully as possible, but it’s kind of like we’ve reached a point where we just need to adapt to the standard that–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –our network has and that our other shows have and, um, uphold that. And we want it to be the most like easy listening experience. Like we don’t want this to be like a huge pack of ads all in one that you have to skip like minutes over, and that’s kind of the whole idea. So all that to say, sorry for the blabbing. We won’t talk about it again, but I just wanted to make sure I really familiarized myself with all this before bringing it to you all, um, so that you can know what we know behind the scenes. And, um, please know we’re try– We’re gonna hear your feedback. We’re gonna listen and, and do what’s best. But, um, we just love you, and we always want you to be part of the conversation.

Em: [clapping]

Christine: Oh! That is called a Mercury in Taurus.

Em: [laughs] You really–

Christine: Mic drop.

Em: –locked in.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: You went, “I’m on it. And don’t worry.”

Christine: I had a lot of fun with that.

Em: Oh, good. Well, great. Um, okay. Would you like a story?

Christine: Please.

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Em’s Story – Egyptian Theatres - Part 2

Em: I, uh– Let’s see. If you recall, this is a part two.

Christine: I do recall.

Em: Oh, okay. That would have been real silly if I went, “Anyway, here’s a random topic,” and you had to call me out. That would have been so embarrassing [pronounced “ember-rah-zin”].

Christine: Here’s the thing, you’ve never had to call me because neither of us ever remembered the three times I failed at bringing up a second part–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –of a story that I was meant to. So don’t worry about that. Um, I do remember it’s a part two because before every episode now I ask myself if it’s a part two for myself because I have to.

Em: That’s–

Christine: Otherwise, I will forget.

Em: You know what? You do what you have to do. That’s okay.

Christine: Thanks. [chuckles]

Em: Do you remember what the part two– what the part one was?

Christine: Uh… It was the Egyptian Theatre–

Em: Holy shit. Okay, memory. Really just–

Christine: –in Idaho.

Em: –going nuts today with the brain, huh?

Christine: You know what’s funny is I didn’t remember and then you asked me and I said, “I don’t, but let me take a wild guess,” and it just kind of came back.

Em: I feel like I just saw like the– all the synapses in your brain like really go into overdrive to find it.

Christine: Brr! [makes a chirping sound]

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Yep. The file folder.

Em: Yeah. [chuckles]

Christine: Found it real quick. And, uh, yeah. So I do remember it’s the Egyptian Theatre, but it’s not the Idaho one. It’s the other one.

Em: Oh my god. Okay.

Christine: But I forget where that is.

Em: Like–

Christine: Iowa?

Em: Illinois. Wow.

Christine: Fuck! Fuck! I’ll see myself out.

Em: I’m– Why don’t you just do the notes at this point? Like you really just killed it. You just– Every single–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –little beat there, you– Okay. Well, whatever.

Christine: Thank you so much. Listen, what can I say? There is no rhyme or reason for any of it. [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles] Well, you’re right. This is the Egyptian Theatre, but this one is not in Boise, Idaho. This is in Dekalb, Illinois.

Christine: Okay. I feel like I’ve heard that.

Em: I’ve– I think I’ve– Nope. I don’t know. I, I know it’s near Chicago.

Christine: Okay, sure.

Em: So once you hear the word “Chicago”, all the other ones feel smaller ’cause Chicago’s such a big town.

Christine: They sort of feel like just a suburb.

Em: Yeah. So, um– And remember the reason that this even came to be this story was because I thought I was covering one Egyptian Theatre–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –and then the information kept sounding just a little off. And so–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –I kept going, “What the fuck is going on?” And then it– I ended up finding out I was covering two topics by accident at once. And I told you that that information– When I say it was just a little off, everything was only off by like one or two years. The same reasonings for things, the same chronology was–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Like all of it just was a little too close that it took me a while to realize–

Christine: Strange.

Em: –“Oh, maybe it’s not the same place.” So I will try to rush through the history of this because I already did it last week basically.

Christine: Right.

Em: But, uh, this theater was opened in 1929 versus 1927 at the other one.

Christine: Okay.

Em: And, uh, this is also on the National Registry of Historic Places, which– it happened in the ‘70s just like the last place. And again, this was designed as an Egyp– with an Egyptian theme after the United States’s Egyptian craze in the ‘20s when King Tut’s tomb was discovered. At one point– I mentioned this last time, but at one point there was around like a hundred Egyptian Theatres. And in my mind–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –I would think, “Just make this a franchise at this point.”

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles]

Em: Like it’s just–

Christine: A hundred is crazy.

Em: 'Cause you would think, “Oh, these are all clearly one of the same thing,” but they were all different, and everyone just thought they had the original idea.

Christine: I mean, I guess back then you don’t have like fucking GoDaddy to check if the domain is taken.

Em: Right. [laughs]

Christine: So like they’re already kind of like Egyptian Theatre, but nobody knows that there’s a hundred.

Em: I’d be, I’d be tripping if I worked on an Egyptian Theatre and then traveled somewhere and saw another Egyptian Theatre, and I’d be like, “Did we ever approve this?”

Christine: Like identical?

Em: “Uh-oh.”

Christine: Like same pillars or columns and like same decor. I’d be like, “What the fuck is going on?”

Em: Yeah. So apparently, they were all just individual theaters just all with the same idea. Um, and now there’s only seven left in the country. There’s LA, Boise, this one, and then there’s one in Colorado, one in Oregon, two in Utah.

Christine: Okay.

Em: Fun fact. So the cost for the total design of this place was $250,000, which today is about $5 million.

Christine: Jesus. Yeah.

Em: And the original plan, which the other one did not have– The original plan was that this was gonna be kind of the beginning of a megacomplex in the ‘20s where like a hotel was gonna be attached to it.

Christine: Mm.

Em: Restaurants were gonna be attached to it. It was just gonna be one of multiple–

Christine: A Margaritaville and Resort, if you will.

Em: Yes. I think– Yeah, you get it. You–

Christine: [laughs] I d–

Em: See–

Christine: I, I do.

Em: Why’d I even– [chuckles]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I can’t believe I was gonna give you an example. That’s so embarrassing.

Christine: Ridiculous.

Em: So it was gonna be essentially a bit of a resort kind of thing, but then the stock market crashed. Whoopsy-daisy.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And the whole plan was cancelled. But this theater was allowed to finish its building because it was literally in the middle of being built when the stock market crashed.

Christine: Well, and they’re spending $5 million on it. It’s like, fuck, you’re kind of sunk cost here.

Em: Exactly.

Christine: Like, what are you gonna do? You got to keep going, I guess.

Em: Exactly. It’s like, “Well, let’s, let’s see what happens.”

Christine: What else do you do? Yeah.

Em: So, um, yeah. So the, the stock market crashed, and they were like, “Well, let’s just keep building, I guess.” it was originally supposed to be– Although it was a theater, you would think movie theater. It was supposed to be both vaudeville and a movie theater.

Christine: Okay. Okay.

Em: Um, and not just both vaudeville and movies, but in the movie realm, it was gonna be both silent and the talkies–

Christine: Ooh! That– The talkies!

Em: –which was the first theater that was gonna be doing that around here, so–

Christine: Oh, exciting, exciting. Big news.

Em: Big deal. Not just motion picture, but motion and sound pictures.

Christine: Love that.

Em: And another fun fact for you, the or– opening day admission was a quarter or 50 cents based on if you were an adult or child.

Christine: Oh, okay. [chuckles] I was like, “Based on what exactly?”

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Okay.

Em: Fair enough.

Christine: That– That’s fair. That’s fair.

Em: But yeah, 50 cents for a movie. Incredible.

Christine: Yeah. Wow.

Em: Uh, that being said, within a couple years, like literally two years, they realized that the vaudeville thing wasn’t working. And I mean–

Christine: Uh-oh.

Em: –once you’ve got the talkies, you’re really pushing– like vaudeville is just old, old, old. No one wants that anymore. They want the talkies.

Christine: Those little ki– especially those kids aren’t coming for vaudeville anymore, not with the talkies. No.

Em: They even tried for a second to make it where like vaudeville would be the act in between the movies while they were like putting in the new reel.

Christine: [chuckles] Aw!

Em: And then that way–

Christine: So embarrassing.

Em: Yeah. But it’s like, oh, so now you’re just like the jester on stage in between bits.

Christine: And you’re like– It’s like awkward. You’re like the vamp guy, you know? You’re like–

Em: Yeah. You’re like the MC or something.

Christine: –“Ooh, I’m vamping.” Um, yeah. And like everyone’s like, “When’s the movie start?” Oh, that sucks.

Em: [chuckles] Yeah. Yes, exactly right. And I feel like it was probably– Maybe they were really excited. They’re like, “Nobody does vaudeville anymore. This is my big break to bring it back.”

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: And they were like, “Oh, we’re gonna actually stop this.”

Christine: They’re like, “I’ll finally prove it.” Yeah.

Em: [chuckles] Well, so it went straight to just being a movie theater.

Christine: Cool.

Em: Uh, the first movie was a horse racing comedy. I would say the name–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –but apparently, it is a now racist term.

Christine: No.

Em: Yep. Um, but it was a horse racing comedy where I guess–

Christine: What?

Em: –the– It’s hard to understand what the movie was about, but it sounds like it was some guy who happened to share the same name as a famous jockey, but this guy doesn’t like horses. He’s horrified of horses, and he ends up rescuing someone who’s like on a horse by accident.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: And because of his name–

Christine: Happens.

Em: –which is the name of like a famous jockey in the area, they thought he was the jockey, and he was like, I think, trying to impress a girl.

Christine: Sure.

Em: And so he pretended to be the jockey, and then he ended up being like– signing up to impress her for like a horse competition and then like to had follow through on it.

Christine: This is like every Disney Channel Original Movie.

Em: Literally. 'Cause I’m assuming that the real jockey was also there being like, “What the hell are you doing here, signing up for me?”, you know.

Christine: Oh my word. Oh my word. It sounds hilarious. What can I say?

Em: I do say I can’t tell you everything about this movie. I’m like really guessing a lot of that plot because it is lost footage.

Christine: Oh…

Em: So all we have is like the description of what it was.

Christine: Do you know what’s so weird is that I have a whole bit– not a bit, but like a segment on, um, my story today about lost footage.

Em: [gasps] Fun.

Christine: Weird.

Em: Love that.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: One thing that was not lost was the movie poster, and let me tell you the tagline: “The gasps of an Earthquake! The Yells of a Mirthquake!”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: It just sounds like something hopefully someone says about us. I don’t know.

Christine: Not mirthquake.

Em: Uh, there’s also–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –on IMDb two fake reviews about this movie–

Christine: Cool.

Em: –which I did think in the– to– and it is an homage to Beach Too Sandy, I thought I would read the reviews to you, but–

Christine: [laughs] Yay.

Em: –but the reviews were not actually that good. Like not e–

Christine: Oh.

Em: Like not fun. Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –which I’m sure you’ve run into.

Christine: All the time.

Em: So the two reviews seemed to be like one was more informational about like anything we can find on this movie.

Christine: Great.

Em: The other one was funny in that it rated the movie a five out of 10, having obviously never seen it.

Christine: Right.

Em: Because the movie was lost 100 years ago, so anyone who was alive to see it–

Christine: Right. [laughs]

Em: –certainly isn’t operating IMDb. So it’s definitely fake.

Christine: Well, you don’t know that. It could be a very tech-savvy 104-year-old–

Em: You’re right.

Christine: –who saw it as a toddler–

Em: You’re right. You are totally right. I, I stand corrected.

Christine: –and remembers it to this very day like it was yesterday.

Em: He’s like, “I gotta get on that IMDb and talk about this movie.”

Christine: What if he just ended up bitching about the vaudeville act in the middle?

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Like, “If they got rid of that fucking vaudeville, I would have been able to enjoy the movie.” [laughs]

Em: It’s like, “All he did was juggle. The cane took forever to get out and yank him away.”

Christine: “So embarrassing. Like get rid of this guy.”

Em: Uh, so yeah, fun fact, somewhere between the ‘40s and ‘50s, the film was destroyed because it was like contaminated. But then– Like do you know in that moment like this is the only copy?

Christine: That it’s nev– Forever. Do you care?

Em: Do you care? Like all that money?

Christine: Does it feel–

Em: Like, like–

Christine: It’s just weird.

Em: –Warner Brothers themselves destroyed it.

Christine: Wow. It’s just– Why did they des– What do you mean it was– What, what was wrong with it?

Em: I guess the film negatives were deteriorating.

Christine: Oh, so it’s just like busted. It’s not like–

Em: It’s not like they were just like, “Fuck this movie.”

Christine: Oh, wow. That’s just pretty wild.

Em: But you would think they– Wouldn’t they have had a second reel or something?

Christine: Okay. So, Em, here’s– No. So what they did apparently– Because, at least for my story today what, what I talk about is television shows, but they used to just tape over them or throw them out. Like once the footage got deteriorated enough they would just toss it, and they would just like record over things. So you would never get like a hard copy of anything until you were able to record them at home ’cause the net– the, the studios would just like re-tape over them, which is why so much– I don’t know about movies, but for sh– TV shows, a lot of shows are lost ’cause they would just tape over them.

Em: So there was just no ability to make a second copy?

Christine: They just didn’t u– They just didn’t. 'Cause they were–

Em: That’s so weird to me that that wasn’t anybody’s first fucking thought.

Christine: I think it’s like they just thought like, “Oh, this is kind of like temporary media,” sort of. Like nobody thought–

Em: That’s crazy.

Christine: –to save it. I know. True. Like looking back–

Em: Especially like putting all that money into it, like you don’t want this to be– Okay, whatever.

Christine: It’s just so bizarre. I guess like once you lose the original and your copy’s deteriorating, what are you gonna do? I don’t know.

Em: Well, one of the, I guess, solutions was a fun fact about this movie, which the only reason I brought it up is because it’s the first movie that played in the theater and I thought it’d be–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –some nice banter. But fun fact, I guess they could tell the, the negatives were deteriorating. I’m guessing on that, but before it ever became lost footage or before they ever decided to throw it away, in 1938, they remade the movie–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –but under a completely different name with completely different cast–

Christine: Was it like shot–

Em: –and completely different character names.

Christine: Was it like shot for shot or was just like totally different movie?

Em: I think it was a different movie ’cause even like the characters' names are totally different.

Christine: Ohh. So they basically were like, “Fuck this movie.” I know you said they weren’t like that, but like in some ways they were kind of like, “Eh, fuck this movie. We’ll just redo it.”

Em: I wonder if they were like, “I always wanted it to end differently,” and then they just decided–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –to redo it. But they also–

Christine: Like–

Em: –they cast bigger people. Like they had, um, like Louis Armstrong and like Ronald Reagan when he was an actor in it like i–

Christine: Oh my word.

Em: –in this new version. So anyway, if you want to watch the remake, it’s called Going Places from 1938. Okay, as I mentioned earlier, the theater was opening– was in the middle of construction as the stock market crashed. So there were a lot of budgetary cuts. I need everybody to hear this because the gasp that came out of me was just gobsmacked.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: So for– one, to cut out of their budget, they had the ceilings lowered so it wasn’t taller and more grand.

Christine: [laughs] Lower the ceilings.

Em: Lower the ceilings.

Christine: I mean– Sure.

Em: We have– “We don’t have enough drywall to keep going.”

Christine: [laughs] Oh my god.

Em: [laughs] Um–

Christine: Like, “Just duck. It’s fine. We’ll duck.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “They’ll duck.”

Em: The, uh– “No balcony for us. Just–“

Christine: “Yeah, they’re gonna be sitting anyway. Who cares? Crawl to your seat.”

Em: There w– [chuckles] There was, um– They originally planned to have like these really fancy– I think it was like marble floors, but then they couldn’t afford the marble. And so they literally went to other construction sites around the area and collected the scrap tile and then like had to mosaic it all together on the floor.

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Which it ends up actually looking very beautiful now, but like imagine thinking, “Oh, I’m just gonna throw one slab of fucking marble on the ground and call it a day.”

Christine: That’s literally out of one of those shows, those TV shows.

Em: And now it’s like, “Actually, do a puzzle.”

Christine: Yeah, that’s– but that’s one out of one of those fucking whack TV shows from the ‘90s or early 2000s where they’re like, “Sandra took tissue paper and made this lamp out of it for–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–b-because one time 10-year-old Tanya did a school project about lamps–“

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: “–and now her room is called the Lamp Room, and we’ve made it all out of tissue paper, and it’ll probably set fire the moment I leave.” Like the– I f–

Em: I know exactly what show you’re talking about. [chuckles]

Christine: Right? Like that show, “Talking Cents” or “Something Cents” with C-E-N-T-S–

Em: Yes, yes!

Christine: It’s, it’s like so addicting to watch–

Em: “Making Cents”?

Christine: Maybe?

Em: I d– Maybe “Talking Cents” was it. But I know exactly what you’re talking about where it was like everything was unnecessary. [laughs]

Christine: And you’re just like, “Are you just like–“ It’s like stapling curtains to the wall. Like it’s like how I behave–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –and I’m like, “Who paid for these people to go into other ho– people’s homes and behave this– and like behave this way?”

Em: I– You know what? I hope you write a letter to them and go, “How do you behave this way? How did you–“

Christine: “How– Who let you do this? Because I’d like to do this, and I don’t– I haven’t been given this kind of budget or go ahead.”

Em: “How was this greenlit?” Yeah.

Christine: “How– Who greenlit this? And can I take over?” [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “Thanks.”

Em: So the other– the thing that, um, really sh– floored me, and only for personal reasons, was that, uh, the other big cut that they did was they got rid of the AC. Oh my god. Like just–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: –fucking bulldoze the building.

Christine: I mean, they’ve got those tile floors, Em, and if you’re already crawling, you could just kind of–

Em: You could just–

Christine: –put your face down. [chuckles]

Em: –rub your belly on the cold mosaic tile.

Christine: Yeah, yeah. [laughs]

Em: Um, no, they, uh–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: They– But I di– First of all, AC in 1929? That s– blows me away. Didn’t know that was even an option.

Christine: [chuckles] Good one.

Em: But now I– I’m finding out– Here’s a thing that really made me guffaw is that– I want you to tell me– ’cause this– the theater still stands. It’s still a theater. I want you to guess what year AC was finally put in after being cut in 1929.

Christine: 20– 2– Uh, 1988. 2000. I don’t know.

Em: L-like six years ago.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: I’m not kidding. Six years ago. I was like, are you telling me in 2019 that people were s– volunteering to be here and it– there was no AC?

Christine: I mean, I feel like that’s not that weird, is it?

Em: I promise you, in my brain, it’s the weirdest thing one could do.

Christine: Okay, I guess that’s fair. I mean, Chicago is notoriously pretty fucking cold, but I guess–

Em: That's true. But like, imagine being– It’s the summer. You’re there ’cause–

Christine: No, not in a– packed in a theater. Yeah. It’s– That’s–

Em: Packed in a theater. They do concerts there. [groans]

Christine: You got to read one star reviews from pre-2020 to see like what the, what the deal was, like if it was hellish or if it was like manageable somehow.

Em: I wonder if the shows were just so worth it. [chuckles] I don’t know.

Christine: I– Yeah, I don’t know.

Em: Um, remember that one time we had a live show and the AC went out?

Christine: Sort of.

Em: It– The LA show where like we were already super delayed–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –but like it was like–

Christine: Oh, everything was going wrong. Oh my god.

Em: It was like m– That was also the, the bathroom situation was at that theater.

Christine: By the way–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –someday, we gotta have tales from the road because there is so much shit. I think my Mercury in Taurus is really like–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –finally reaching a point where I’m like, “Oh, I can just say shit out loud.” So I’m like, let us just tell you, someday we gotta tell you about that fuckass day and the time that we almost– There was a rat. We didn’t get a bathroom. I–

Em: Oh, yeah. Well, that was another– Yep. That was crazy.

Christine: Fuck! That was terrible. And it wasn’t– The show was great, but the– Oh, and then remember– I don’t know if you remember this ’cause it was, it was a rough day. Uh, I, on my way out, tripped over, um, like a metal thing, and I was holding a bunch of stuff, and I faceplanted–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –and like [chuckles] my whole fucking face. And I was in front of the Uber, and I remember so vividly it was such a bad like fall and smack–

Em: Oh…

Christine: –that somebody else got out of their car and ran over, and I thought it was my Uber driver, and he was like, “No, I just parked my car in the middle of the road–“

Em: I gotta be honest–

Christine: “–and like ran out.”

Em: –I didn’t see that. I, I–

Christine: I– You guys left before me. Nobody saw it except for the entire downtown Los Angeles area. And then I wiped out fa-face first, and then I just started to cry–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –because I was like, “This would happen.” And I was like smiling and crying and laughing like a buffoon. And then my Uber driver came, and I realized he was pretending like he didn’t see me fall.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: 'Cause like he like looked away, and I was like, “Oh my god, this is the most miserable–” And the next morning, we got onto that train to San Diego.

Em: [sighs] That was a bad weekend.

Christine: I’ll never forget.

Em: I– That– I reme–

Christine: [sighs]

Em: There was something about, um– Well, we can get into that li– I was g–

Christine: A– Hey, we could do a Yappy Hour–

Em: I was go– I was–

Christine: –about all our bitching. Does anyone want to pay for extra bitching Yappy Hour details?

Em: Well, I remember specifically with the AC, didn’t they say like the only way we could– like it was like– some– the AC broke the night before–

Christine: Oh! We had to reschedule.

Em: We had to reschedule because they were also saying like the only way it’s– it could happen– Weren’t they trying to say something like, “Oh, well, we could have the show if we could fix it today and you help us pay out of pocket,” or something? And it was like–

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They were like, “You can do the show. It’ll be 118 degrees inside,” and we were like–

Em: Yeah. And I was like, “Mm.”

Christine: –“And kill everyone. Okay?”

Em: Crazy.

Christine: “Yeah, sure. No.”

Em: Anyway, I imagine that’s what this theater felt like, even though it was not Los Angeles post-climate hell, um, but whatever. It–

Christine: Whatever.

Em: This theater had no AC until 2019, so it was hot at least once in there.

Christine: It didn’t even have a marble floor, okay? It didn’t have any of the essentials.

Em: [chuckles] The only reason this theater ended up doing well, by the way, I already mentioned this earlier, but because it was the Great Depression, nobody could afford to go to the movie theaters. And if they did, they wanted like a, a class A experience. And so–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –because this was the only place that had the talkies, it was like the only theater that survived in the area, I think, o– from–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –during the Depression.

Christine: Wow.

Em: Even so, the theater eventually, of course, got into bad shape. Was already, without AC, I’ll tell you that.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: It was gonna close down, but then the town rallied together like it’s Stars Hollow. And, uh–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –it eventually was able to get renovated, similar to the last case I did, case, theater I did. Um, it was right around the same time too, where the whole town got together and renovated it. So–

Christine: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Em: I–

Christine: Hallmark style.

Em: Before I get into the ghosts, I will tell you some fun facts. This is still the town’s biggest movie screen.

Christine: Oh! Wait, that’s pretty, that’s pretty impressive.

Em: It’s also the town’s biggest auditorium.

Christine: Okay.

Em: It is, uh– Oh, just like how AC didn’t exist until 2019–

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: –I’ve talked about that enough. The original chairs from 1929 were also there up until very recently–

Christine: Okay.

Em: –and they only recently replaced them except for one, which I’ll talk about in a second. Um, and it’s still in use. They do all sorts of events there. They do like proms and graduations and weddings and history tours and all this stuff, so. Um, and actually for a while, it had a haunted house attraction during Halloween–

Christine: Mm.

Em: –but then that went away. I’m not totally sure why. And then I don’t know if they still do this, but I thought this was so cute. During Christmas, uh, they would often play It’s a Wonderful Life and at the end have snowfall from the ceiling.

Christine: That’s cute. It’s just asbestos from the old, uh– the old ceiling tiles.

Em: [chuckles] It’s actually because there was no AC. They needed something cold to drench on you, so.

Christine: [chuckles] Just dump, dump frozen water.

Em: [chuckles] It’s like, “Please let it snow in here.”

Christine: I-ice shavings, yeah.

Em: “It’s 1,000 degrees.”

Christine: It’s nice.

Em: So okay. Now on to the ghosts. It’s most popular for their ghost tours or the investigations that they let people do. They’re known today–

Christine: Do you think they ever had a clue when they were building this place and they’re like, “Oh, it’s most successful purpose in a hundred years is gonna be fucking–“

Em: “All of us dead,” [chuckles] yeah.

Christine: “–tourists on ghost tours.” Yeah, with you guys dead inside of it. Oh my god.

Em: I do wonder– I did see a– like a post online recently that was like, “How come there aren’t– they don’t make houses anymore that are worth haunting? Like they don’t look glamorous enough.”

Christine: [laughs] I mean, truly.

Em: And part of me is like, maybe that’s why so many theaters and old places are haunted. It’s ’cause they were so beautiful. Why would you want to leave?

Christine: It’s like glamorous. Hell yeah.

Em: Now, if like I just had like a farmhouse style bungalow [looks to the side] like the one I live in now–

Christine: [sighs] [laughs]

Em: –um, [laughs] I’d be like–

Christine: Your eyes. [chuckles]

Em: –“I’m not haunting this fucking thing. That’s just not happening.”

Christine: Well, yeah. And it’s like if I’ve got this big white dress, if I’m a Lady in White–

Em: Yes.

Christine: –what am I gonna do? Haunt like the sub-suburbs? No. I mean, maybe–

Em: Right.

Christine: –for fun, every now and then, just to scare the kiddos, but like I belong on a grand staircase.

Em: And you know what? Keep that energy. That’s exactly right.

Christine: Like thank, thank you so much.

Em: Uh, it’s known as one of the most haunted theaters in all of Illinois. There are several ghosts here. Many sources– Before I traveled on over to YouTube, many sources said that it is– there are six very popular ghosts here. And then when I went to YouTube and I saw– I watched like a bunch of people do investigations, every single one of them said, “There’s only two main ghosts here.” So–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –I don’t know if I did my notes wrong again.

Christine: Maybe it’s that–

Em: I don’t know.

Christine: No, maybe it’s that thing again where it’s like they get mixed up and stories cross over and–

Em: I feel like there are six ghosts there, but two of them really steal the show. No pun intended.

Christine: Okay. So it’s sort of like these are the two main–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –characters. Yeah. Okay.

Em: One of them is named Irv Kummerfeldt.

Christine: Yes. Well, no wonder he’s a main character.

Em: Of course. Um, Irv and his wife, Barbara, are from the 1980s. They, uh–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –were a power couple here at the time. The wife was, um, like some fancy director. She was a suit of the theater.

Christine: Wow.

Em: And he also– He was always there. He loved volunteering there. And together, they started the nonprofit that actually restored the theater eventually.

Christine: So they’re like patrons of the theater basically.

Em: Patrons of the theater [pronounced “thee-ate-er”]. Yes.

Christine: I see. Okay.

Em: They’re part of like the silver society or whatever they call themselves.

Christine: Very chic.

Em: And–

Christine: The Mad Hatters. No, Red Hats. Mad Hatters. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Never mind.

Em: So one night after a show– Fun fact, it was West Side Story, in case you care. O–

Christine: I do.

Em: One night after a show, Irv was in his seat, his favorite seat there, and he got up, walked into the aisle, had a massive heart attack as people were clearing out of the show.

Christine: Oh, shit.

Em: And he died where he’d been watching the, the show, and so now people–

Christine: Well, yeah. He’s gonna haunt it.

Em: So people see him constantly walking up and down the aisle right where he passed.

Christine: I wonder in that case– Because it’s such a direct link, like we know he died there, I wonder if that is residual of that day or do you think that’s like it’s residual of just his entire energy in the place?

Em: I–

Christine: Does that make sense?

Em: It does. I– And I kind of have an answer for you. Um, because I don’t know if that one specifically is like from the day he died–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –or because he was constantly at every show walking up and down the aisles.

Christine: Walking that– Right.

Em: But one thing that seems to be a more generally residual of his is that, um, after he passed, people see a lot of shadow figures standing in the doorway at the back of the theater. And on his shifts when he was volunteering there, he would regularly try to sneak in and look through the door–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –to watch a show. So–

Christine: Okay, okay.

Em: So that feels more like the general one, and the aisle–

Christine: Totally.

Em: –is maybe of the day he died.

Christine: I mean, it’s kind of amazing to think, ’cause we never really think about that, that a ghost could have like multiple ways of expressing itself in one place, like a residual haunting but then als– Or I guess they’re both residual but then like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –doing different things. I don’t know. It’s kind of cool. It makes sense, I guess.

Em: Or for all we know, both of them like– I’m not– this–

Christine: Or it's the same. Right, true.

Em: They could be both intelligent. They could be from different timelines, in which case like, oh my god, ghosts can haunt themselves while haunting themselves or–

Christine: Well, I think you already know that.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: You already know that–

Em: I know with my–

Christine: –as a psychic–

Em: –my time travel theories.

Christine: –and your time travel interest. Like you already know that’s a thing.

Em: But– Thank you. Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –the fact that I’m already haunting myself is crazy. Every time I–

Christine: But it’s like such not a surprise to any of us–

Em: Like literally if I trip and I feel someone–

Christine: –that you’re haunting yourself.

Em: –catch me, I know that was me going, “Bitch, get up.” Like I– [laughs]

Christine: And you know who else? It was you who tripped you too, probably.

Em: Fine w– You know what? Just for the attention, I could see that.

Christine: Yeah, it’s like you doing a three-person like stooge act, but it’s just like you and your future selves. [laughs]

Em: It’s just me, my past self, and my future ghost.

Christine: And then like I, I– future me comes along with the vaudeville hook.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: It just gets all three of you out of there hopefully.

Em: I feel like you just drag an organ out and go [sings jaunty jingle] or something.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Let’s do a little Nickelodeon action.

Em: So, um, h– this– he is the one who has his– the special seat where all but one have been replaced since 1929. His seat that he used to sit in–

Christine: Okay. I was gonna ask. Okay.

Em: –is the 1929 seat.

Christine: That’s pretty special.

Em: And I don’t know if it’s like ’cause he died there or if it’s just like that was his favorite seat and he was a good guy and a patron of the theater.

Christine: I feel like that happens like at theaters when someone has been like involved for so long and they pass, not necessarily next to the seat [chuckles] but like–

Em: Right. That's just a double whammy.

Christine: –but just– I feel like they were like, “Okay, we got to like–“

Em: Super duper keep it.

Christine: “–goldplate this shit.” Yeah. Exactly.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Um, but yeah, I feel like they– theaters do that, right? Like even if it’s–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –not– happens in house.

Em: Um, he has also–y I only saw this on one source, and I didn’t hear about it anywhere else, but I thought it was interesting that he apparently had a desk when he worked here, and after his death, there seemed to be a lot of energy around the desk.

Christine: Ooh.

Em: Um, people would still find like cigarette butts on the desk–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and they would find like things in the desk had been moved around and stuff, and then when they moved the desk down to the basement, I guess all that activity either ended or ended up started happening– it started happening in the basement. Something like that.

Christine: [gasps] He’s like, “Why the fuck did you move me– my office downstairs–”

Em: Yeah, it’s like, “Now I’m–“

Christine: “–into the fucking basement?”

Em: “–in the like boiler room? What the hell is this?”

Christine: “Thanks a lot.”

Em: Sometimes people also smell smoke, and they assume that’s attributed to like the cigarette butts, but–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –o– some other people argued like this, this was before things were smoking free. Like–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: –the theater probably just reeked of cigarettes at one point.

Christine: True. Yeah. Probably everyone was smoking.

Em: Yeah. So it probably has nothing to do with like him specifically, and it’s just well, that’s what the theater smelled like.

Christine: The era. Yeah.

Em: Um, okay. So he is one of the main characters. The other main character that everyone talks about is the Lady in– Guess a color. It’s not red finally or white.

Christine: Is, is it, is it aquamarine?

Em: Can you imagine?

Christine: [chuckles] Can you imagine?

Em: The Lady in Lavender. No, it’s, um–

Christine: Oh, she’s such a–

Em: This one’s–

Christine: I mean, she needs so much attention. [chuckles]

Em: She’s in green. This one’s in green.

Christine: Okay. Okay. Well, you know, she could have been aquamarine, but she chose, she chose a simpler– I, I appreciate that.

Em: You know, we have yet to meet a Lady in Yellow or a Lady in Orange. I feel like those are the only two left.

Christine: What about pink?

Em: Pink.

Christine: Have we done that?

Em: Pink, purple? Have we done a Lady in Purple?

Christine: I f– Mm, maybe not. Pur–

Em: Brown?

Christine: Red, white. Gold? [chuckles]

Em: I feel like, I feel like we’ve found the Lady in Gray, Lady in Black, Lady in White, Lady in Blue, Lady in Red. Now Lady in Green.

Christine: We’ve got– And, you know, the beautiful thing is we’ve got so much ahead of us: polka dots–

Em: Oh!

Christine: –uh, gingham, you know.

Em: A Lady in Flannel. Now, that’s the one I want to meet for obvious reasons.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Okay.

Christine: A Lady in Muumuu”.

Em: [laughs] I already have one of those in my farmhouse bungalow.

Christine: I know. That’s Allison. [chuckles]

Em: So Lady in Green. She has no name, and people have even asked, “What’s your name?”, and she just won’t tell you. But she’s apparently very happy. She’s seen in a long green dress. She’s seen in the balcony of the theater. Um, a lot of especially like workers in the morning, when they go and do like checks on the building, they’ll see her just sitting there in the audience, and they think like she’s early for a matinee or something.

Christine: And imagine though like seeing someone in a dress too–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –like a beautiful green dress. It’s like, “What are you doing here at 8 in the morning?” or whatever time the workers show up.

Em: And as someone who is, um, often a, a non-fancy patron of the theater–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –uh, the way that, uh, attire has changed over the years, like the way– like people wear like athleisure to the theater. That’s crazy to me.

Christine: And like for a matinee or 8 in the morning especially, like you wouldn’t see somebody typically in like a gown, you know?

Em: No, but like she dresses like–

Christine: That’s– I love that for her.

Em: –you do at the theater [pronounced “thee-ate-er”]. And so–

Christine: Sure.

Em: –um, that would really blow me away. If I saw someone dressed like you and me sitting in the theater, sadly, in 2026, that would be less shocking. I’m sure someone in vaudeville would be like, “What the fuck are you wearing?”

Christine: Yeah. I mean, I’m literally wearing like underwear as pants right now.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: So I, I think that like they would be pretty understandably upset. Yeah.

Em: But shockingly, that would be less m– for me to swallow. I’d be like, “Oh, someone’s just sitting and observing me working.”

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Em: Um–

Christine: Or they, they got in here somehow. Yeah.

Em: Yeah. Um, but so anyway, they think someone either snuck in or is confused about showtimes. She seems to be very chatty. She’s very often intelligently responding to people’s requests–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –when they go on investigations.

Christine: Except not her name which is weird.

Em: Except her name. She doesn’t– She keeps some things to herself.

Christine: I like it. I like it.

Em: Um, performers have even seen her during rehearsals and shows. They see someone watching who like stands out because she is dressed for Broadway, which is crazy. Um–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I keep saying Broadway, just theater. Sorry. Um–

Christine: [chuckles] It’s B– it’s Chicago Broadway.

Em: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh, and also, um, people also see her smoking one of those very long Cruella de Vil cigarettes–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –which like she’s so out of place–

Christine: Hell–

Em: –but yet she’s– in her world, she’s so in place.

Christine: But she’s like in her element. Like, wow, that is just stunning.

Em: Everyone else probably looks so off to her. In fact, there is–

Christine: Yeah, but I love that she just doesn’t even mind.

Em: There’s one story later that I tell you– I’ll just say it now. That, um– There’s one ghost there– I wonder if it’s Irv, but there’s a guy who is dressed old-timey, and he’s leaning against one of the columns, and he just looks at the stage watching you, especially if you’re investigating. People have said that they see a man watching them while they’re investigating.

Christine: Mm.

Em: And they’ve found out through spirit box sessions or EVP sessions or whatever it is that he is very curious about people’s clothing. And part of me is like–

Christine: Uh-oh. [chuckles]

Em: –because it– they’re from another time–

Christine: Oh?

Em: –or because they are just so embarrassing in a theater dressed like that.

Christine: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Is it like because like, “What is wrong with you, people?”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Or is it like, “Oh, you look like a futuristic–

Em: Right.

Christine: “–robot.” Yeah.

Em: I mean, imag– You know back in like– when people were for the first time on commercial airplanes, and they would dress like their Sunday’s best.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Imagine you just showed up in like your gym shorts and a hoodie like we all do now. They would be fucking disgusted with us. [laughs]

Christine: Well, and like y– and like your whole duvet.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: You know how some people bring like an entire duvet and like six stu– uh, squishallows, and you’re like, “Did you– Okay, that’s fine.”

Em: And they’re barefoot? Yeah.

Christine: And they’re barefoot. Exactly. They’d be– They’d probably– But you’re right. Like it’s like you look like a different being entirely–

Em: Yes.

Christine: –and you look like a little bit– Okay. Wow.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Wow. A little extra.

Em: Like, “Okay, I’m– We clearly have different cultural interests.”

Christine: “We get– Yeah, we–“ Yeah. [laughs] Cultural interests is a nice– Yeah. Sure.

Em: Um, but yeah. So she’s very friendly and, and is like– I think she kind of– I like to think she loves the bit of being a ghost because there have been times – I saw it in YouTube videos last night – that as soon as you– The, the guide will bring them up to where people see her, and he starts talking about her, the lights only in her section turn off by themselves.

Christine: Oh!

Em: She’s like, “And what, darling [pronounced “dah-ling”]?”

Christine: Showtime!

Em: Smokes the cigarette.

Christine: Yeah. There’s just– Oh my god. I love her.

Em: So those are the two main ones, but these are the others that people–

Christine: Okay.

Em: –on other sources said that there’s, there’s–

Christine: The ensemble cast?

Em: Well done.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: Yeah, absolutely. That’s what– Why didn’t I just fucking say that? Okay. God, sometimes you just have the words, you little–

Christine: I’m channeling you.

Em: Thank you.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: There’s apparently a little girl that haunts the theater, but it’s because her family used to actually live on the property before it was a theater.

Christine: Oh–

Em: So–

Christine: –that– she must be confused.

Em: She must be so– She’s like, “Where is the couch?”

Christine: She mu– “What the fu–“ And also like, “Where is my marble floor I was promised?” but–

Em: “And where is my mom?” [laughs]

Christine: [laughs] Oh god. “And where, and where–“

Em: “Where are my shoes? Where are my clothes?”

Christine: [laughs] “Where am I? I mean, help.”

Em: “Where’s the potty? Where am I?”

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: People have said that they’ve seen this little girl singing and playing in the lobby and– but they only see her during the summer because I guess when they lived on the property, it was a summer house. So people only see her–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –when she would have been there. There’s also apparently the ghost of a little boy. I don’t know if he has anything to do with the little girl.

Christine: I love that people can still summer in the afterlife.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like what? She’s summering in the af– Like she gets to go to her summer home.

[A low growling sound is heard from Christine’s microphone.]

Em: What the fuck was that sound?

Christine: Um, probably like somebody’s souped-up vehicle ’cause they have a huge penis. [laughs] I don’t know.

Em: [chuckles] That was crazy that from the other side of the country I heard their tiny penis drive by.

Christine: I didn’t think you’d be able to hear that, but it must have been like at the exact right register. Sorry about that.

Em: No, but that’s a great point–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –that you can summer even in the afterlife. And I–

Christine: But it feels like some people can’t, doesn’t it? Like it feels like sometimes–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –people are just stuck somewhere or residual or whatever. But then like you hear about this, and it’s like, “Oh, she’s only there sometimes ’cause it’s her summer home.” And I’m like, “What?”

Em: And where the fuck does she go– Does she–

Christine: Where– Exactly.

Em: Yeah. I wonder if there’s–

Christine: Anyway.

Em: –what the privilege hierarchy is in ghost world.

Christine: Mm.

Em: Because if some people are stuck–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –but someone else gets to travel, it’s like that has to be a ghost that you don’t care for ’cause you’re a, a little butthurt about it, right?

Christine: But who’s deciding that?

Em: I don’t know. I don’t know the politics.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I don’t– [sighs]

Christine: Uh, someday we will.

Em: It– Yeah. And yet, we won’t be able to tell anyone.

Christine: We’ll find a way. [laughs]

Em: So annoying. Yeah. They’ll see. They’ll all see.

Christine: [laughs] They’ll all see.

Em: [laughs] So, uh, there’s a little boy there. I don’t think he has any relation to the little girl, but I hope that they see each other and play.

Christine: I do too.

Em: Um, he’s been seen wandering the theater. He was first seen – this is so creepy – um, when the building was doing Halloween jump scare attractions, and people thought he was a lost kid and were wondering–

Christine: Oh!

Em: –where his parents were.

Christine: Oh god.

Em: And then the real, the real scare is that he was never there, babe.

Christine: That’s like the world’s best haunted house though.

Em: Truly. Like you– And you pay all of these teenagers to do some–

Christine: Yep.

Em: –some spooky scary work when like–

Christine: Yep.

Em: –the main character was like, “I’ll do it for free.”

Christine: Yeah, sure. Like, “Step aside.”

Em: He’s apparently often seen in the costuming dressing room area, and so they wonder if he was ever a vaudeville actor here.

Christine: Aw.

Em:, uh, the fifth ghost here is there’s a janitor in blue coveralls a lot of people see on the stage sweeping, and I guess he’s become known as Charlie.

Christine: Okay.

Em: There’s also a lot of blue orbs that float around in, in the theater, and so maybe that’s Charlie. I’m not sure. And then the sixth one is certainly the most horrifying and somehow neglected a lot in the YouTubes that I watched. “The YouTubes,” I’m my fucking mom.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: [laughs] But in one of the bathrooms downstairs, there is this haunting female spirit who actively tries to keep people away, like is– wants you to be scared of her.

Christine: Mm.

Em:, um, people say that they feel someone glaring at her. I actually saw this one investigation where they were like, “We were just trying to be girls’ girls, and we were gonna go hang out with her and be like, ‘It’s not that bad, babe. It’s fine.’” Because apparently it’s a woman, and it’s always happening in the woman’s bathroom. And they’re like, “Let’s just–“

Christine: Just like Moaning Myrtle.

Em: Yeah. And they were like, “Let’s just go hang out with her and show her like it ain’t that bad.” But as soon as they got to the stairs where they would have gone down to the bathroom, they felt something so hateful that they were like, “Okay, noted. We won’t go.”

Christine: Oh my god. To go from the energy of, “Let’s go, uh, like–“

Em: Girly pop. [chuckles]

Christine: “–swap lip gloss in the bathroom,” to like, “Okay, the dread is physically blocking me from further– walking further”?

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Yeah, there’s probably something that doesn’t want you down there.

Em: Well, apparently people who have gone down there anyway, they have experienced the, uh, bathroom, uh, stalls. The doors will slam slam shut, and then if you even try to close one of them, there is a pounding on the stalls, and you hear–

Christine: Eugh.

Em: –a woman scream-crying.

Christine: Oh god!

Em: She’s like–

Christine: Yeah, she is–

Em: She wants you out of there.

Christine: She is like Moaning Myrtle. I mean, really.

Em: [chuckles] Well, some mediums have, uh, said that– I mean, she’s clearly going through it, but the mediums have said like she “feels like a poison” to society.

Christine: Whoa. What the fuck?

Em: Like she’s– She hates herself, and she’s trying to scare you off so that you’re nowhere near her.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s almost like she’s trying to like save you from herself.

Christine: Right. So she’s like self– Jeez. Okay, this is a very psychoanalytical interpretation of a ghost.

Em: But you were about to say self-sabotage. That’s exactly right–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –where it’s like, “You, you could have friends in the afterlife if you’re not so damn scary, you know.”

Christine: “You can borrow my lip gloss.”

Em: Yes. Like, “We– We’re trying to help you.”

Christine: But maybe she doesn’t– Sh– You know, she’s got to help herself.

Em: Man. Now you said it.

Christine: Period. And that’s on period. [laughs]

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Oh god.

Em: Uh, okay. So I’m just gonna give you a quick rundown of some of the other things that ghosts do. I know I’m going over time. I’m so sorry. So–

Christine: No, go. Please go. I want to hear the ghosts.

Em: Many shadowy figures darting around.

Christine: [whispering] Course.

Em: Many apparitions of people watching the shows. People have straight up just seen a man standing on the stage that they think is there.

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: Not Charlie, a different man.

Christine: Oh, okay.

Em: Uh, there’s one apparition that, uh, has talked to investigators saying that he’s curious about their clothing. This was a show– I guess the host is named Sara ’cause it’s called “Saranormal.” I think that’s hysterical.

Christine: Oh! I love that.

Em: And they responded by saying like, “Oh, our clothing is because we’re from 2025,” and then their phones died as if– Like their exact words were like, “He clearly crashed out that it was 2025.” [laughs]

Christine: I was gonna say they fucking lost it. Yeah, yeah.

Em: He was like, “Well, I can’t stand this.”

Christine: “What– Yeah, that’s enough of that.” [chuckles]

Em: Um, there’s footsteps, faint voices, sounds of applause, feeling touched, doors slam right next to you. There was one video I watched where literally as they’re walking by, like the door just slams. Like it’s just– And, and then the, the tour guide was like, “Yep, there they go.” Like–

Christine: [groans] That shouldn’t be normal. Don’t normalize doors slamming on their own.

Em: I like the normalization of like them being mysterious about it where a door slams in a room that you’re not in, but the– they clearly don’t give a fuck. They were like, “Here’s the door,” bam.

Christine: When it slams right in your face and you’re like, “Yep, another day at work,” it’s like, “I don’t think so.”

Em: And maybe they, they were being mischievous, but without context, it just feels threatening. Like–

Christine: It's not. Yeah. They– Yeah. You know– Read the room.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Please. Please.

Em: You know, I’m gonna be scared now.

Christine: Yeah. Quit fucking around.

Em: Objects move. There are clear photos of like misty bodies sitting in seats. Motion activation–

Christine: Sure.

Em: –equipment trips up. Batteries and cameras die. And then if you like mention it, then more batteries and cameras die. On stage, people hear– This is a common one. People will hear crinkling paper around them like, “What the fuck am I hearing?”

Christine: Ooh.

Em: And then when they think back on it, it sounds like a script was being flipped through–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –and right when they–

Christine: They're rehearsing.

Em: –and right when they give up trying to find the sound, “bam!” Right next to them, they’ll hear whatever it was, maybe the script or a book getting thrown onto the ground right next to them. And–

Christine: Jesus.

Em: –I should have, uh, kept the clip ready to show you, but there– someone did get it on camera where they’re like, “Do you hear that? Do you hear that?” And it’s clearly like rustling papers. And then–

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: –at the very end, you just hear like “bam!” And it’s– It like slams right on the ground next to her as if he’s like–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –“What do you mean my scene got cut?” Bam! Or something like that.

Christine: I feel he’s not off-book yet.

Em: Not off-book.

Christine: He’s not off-book and he’s gotta fucking get off-book.

Em: Uh, one of the most common things that people experience here or the most success investigators get is through spirit box sessions. These ghosts love a spirit box.

Christine: Mm, I love ghosts who love a spirit box.

Em: I love the chatties, Chatty Cathy’s. So–

Christine: Well, I wonder why.

Em: –here is a collection of multiple– I just put them all in bullets. So, so these are from multiple investigations. But when talking to the Lady in Green, they said, “Were you a singer?” The spirit box says, “Singer.” And then–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –everyone went, “Oh my god, it said ‘Singer,’” and then the spirit box went, “That’s right.”

Christine: Yeah. It’s like, “Well, yeah, it did. 'Cause you asked.” [chuckles]

Em: Uh, another one: when people try to approach that bathroom where like there’s like the–

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Em: –mean ghost, the spirit box will say, “Stop here.”

Christine: Oh jeez.

Em: [groans]

Christine: Yeah, I will. I will.

Em:, uh, the REM-Pod, which, as you know, it has like different lights on the top of it and–

Christine: [makes a siren sound effect]

Em: –different colors. They were using a REM-Pod, and they asked if they could– if the ghost could change the REM-Pod’s colors, and the spirit box said, “Four,” which there are four colors on top.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: And so they–

Christine: I know.

Em: So they said– the investigators went, “Yeah, there are four colors.” And the spirit box said, “The dots, right?”

Christine: Ah!

Em: As a full sentence: “The dots, right?”

Christine: That’s super cool.

Em: Eugh. That one freaks me out. That one actually just now gave me–

Christine: Eugh! “The dots, right?” Oh my god. It’s like we’re having a real chat.

Em: 'Cause it’s literally four colorful dots. It’s so creepy.

Christine: Creepy.

Em: Um, then they were talking to Irv, and they said, “Do we feel you go up and down aisle one?” And the spirit box said, “Yes, it’s me.” Then they said, “What’s your wife’s name?” And the spirit box said, “Barb.”

Christine: Whoa.

Em: And they said, “Thanks, Irv, for talking to us,” and the spirit box said, “Thanks.” Um–

Christine: Holy shit. He is like active.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: He's there.

Em: Another time, they were saying, “Are you the one making this machine light up?” And the spirit box said, “Probably yes.” Then they said–

Christine: [laughs]

Em: –“Did I see you walking around just now?” And the spirit box said, “Maybe.”

Christine: It’s like, “I don’t fucking know. Did you see me? I don’t know.”

Em: Everyone hears a sound, and then they said, “Are you moving chairs?” uh, because I guess the chair’s nearby, and they thought they heard it shift. They said, “Are you moving the chairs?” And the spirit box says, “It was me.”

Christine: Ooh.

Em: They said, “Do you want to keep talking to us?” And the spirit box said, “No.” [chuckles]

Christine: [chuckles] Okay, that’s a dangerous question.

Em: Uh, they’re about to– Investigators are about to head out, and they say, “We’ll leave now.” But then they get a voice saying, “Wait.” And when they ask–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –who’s on the stairs, they get a voice that says, “Freddy.” And they– It’s a clear “Freddy.” It’s like this. It’s like, [speaking directly into the microphone in a monotone voice] “Freddy.” Eugh!

Christine: Oh!

Em: Um–

Christine: Is Freddy someone we know or no?

Em: No. Just–

Christine: Okay.

Em: –the name. And I mean, think of–

Christine: Wow.

Em: –how many people have been in and out of that theater, either working there or visiting and– Eugh.

Christine: Yeah, someone’s just going to the bathroom real quick and then–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –some futuristic person’s like, “What’s your name?” “Freddy.”

Em: [laughs] Well, there was– They go into the dressing room that has all these vanity mirrors, and they say– They’re talking about, “Oh, mirrors are supposed to be a portal for spirits,” and the spirit box–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –said, “That’s right.”

Christine: Ahh! Oh no. Confirmed.

Em: That freaks me out.

Christine: Breaking news. I mean, we all knew it, but that’s–

Em: The witches were right, everybody.

Christine: Of course they were. That’s distressing.

Em: One time they asked, “How many of you are here?” The spirit box said, “A lot.” Uh–

Christine: [sighs]

Em: –“Are you right by me?” The spirit box said, “Indeed.” “What are you doing here?” The spirit box said, “Fate.”

Christine: Oh, that’s heavy.

Em: Um, one thing I thought was also cool also involving the REM-Pods is– as you know, I just said colorful lights everywhere. They had it on, and the spirit box immediately said, “Game,” “Ready,” as if like, “Oh my god, we’re gonna play a game. I’m ready.”

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: 'Cause it looks like an arcade game. Like it’s–

Christine: It looks like you’re about to play– It’s, it’s like the one where you have to land on the–

Em: Yes. Colorama.

Christine: That’s right.

Em: But so they said, “Oh, you think it’s a game? Maybe ’cause of the lights?”, and then the REM-Pod goes off.

Christine: [gasps]

Em: Like they went to go like point at the lights and be like, “This is why I think it’s a game.”

Christine: Like, “You think it’s a game? You idiot.” [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles] Another time the spirit box said um, “Grab.” When they said, “What are you gonna grab?”, then the REM-Pod went off as if like–

Christine: Your ass. Oh.

Em: –someone grabbed the REM-Pod. Oh. [laughs]

Christine: [laughs]

Em: And then, “Can you give us a sign?” The spirit box said, “Cannot.” I mean, there’s so many.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: So I’m just gonna end on the creepiest thing that happened, which is there was one team that was there, and they were all standing on the stage. And they had a camera on a tripod facing the stage in case anything happened that night.

Christine: Right.

Em: Nothing ever happened except when any of them, especially this one guy on the team, was on the stage, the tripod and camera would move itself the whole time they were on stage.

Christine: What?

Em: And, and as– if they ever left, the tripod would stand still. And it wasn’t like it was on the stage or they were accidentally knocking it by stepping around–

Christine: What?

Em: –and everything. It was like on the other side of the theater–

Christine: Em, that’s–

Em: –and it was like something was trying to like adjust the frame to get them in the shot.

Christine: –so weird.

Em: And then they left, and the camera stayed still for the rest of the night. They went back and were on stage for like 15 minutes, cleaning up their equipment, and the whole time the camera was shaking by itself.

Christine: Very strange. Very strange.

Em: I wonder if that was like an old theater tech being like, “Okay, let me get the shot right.”

Christine: Well, you’re not doing a very good job if you’re shaking it around the whole time.

Em: For 15 minutes.

Christine: I feel like it’s that child.

Em: Oh, yeah. Just playing with the equipment.

Christine: I mean, that’s what I would do as a child. [chuckles]

Em: Yeah. It’s like–

Christine: Someone left an–

Em: –“I can see you on this thing.”

Christine: –unattended video camera. Yeah. [chuckles]

Em: Anyway, okay. That is, uh, the Egyptian Theatre.

Christine: That was awesome. I really liked– [clapping] I, I mean, I like both of them, but this one– I don’t know. I really– That one– There’s so many characters in this one, you know, like–

Em: So many characters.

Christine: –Irv and all this. Um, jeez.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: I th– I feel like this one feels like the energy– Even with the lady in the basement, like I think I’d rather spend the night at this place than the other one.

Em: Yeah, I agree.

Christine: I don’t know. The vi–

Em: This–

Christine: I barely remember the last episode, but I feel like–

Em: [chuckles] I–

Christine: –the vibes here are better.

Em: [whispering] I feel the same way. Like I, um–

Christine: Okay. Good, good, good.

Em: And yeah, as long as I avoid that one bathroom, it seems like everyone else is like pretty jazzed to just talk.

Christine: I feel like what I would do with the bathroom is just– I’m not even being facetious. I’m serious. I would probably– Like if we were investigating, I’d probably just like toss a tampon down–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –toss some chocolate. I don’t know. A wine.

Em: They go, “What are you, on the rag? Is that what you–“

Christine: I mean, no. I know it sounds like that, but like–

Em: I know what you mean.

Christine: I would be like, “What can I offer you that doesn’t involve human interaction?”

Em: Right. Like I–

Christine: You know, like maybe you just–

Em: Like, “Here’s a candy bar, babe.” Like– Or something.

Christine: Yeah. “Or do you want like me to move you to the light?” I don’t know. Like, “What’s going on here? 'Cause I’m, I’m about to get all intellectual on– psychoanalyze you, ghost, you know.”

Em: Of course.

Christine: “I’m about to. Otherwise, like just tell me, tell me you’re– you have cramps, and I can get you a Midol.” I don’t know.

Em: You know what I would do? Uh, first of all, I agree. I would absolutely be– and like what does that say about us, the people pleasers, that like, “I’d be gifting her anything to not be mad at me”? Um–

Christine: Well, I’m just like concerned really. I’m sort of like, I don’t even want evidence from you. I just kind of want to make sure like you’re not in like hell and can’t escape, and I’m supposed to like–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –help you out with, I don’t know, this, this token.

Em: That’s, that’s a lot nicer than– I would still be trying to get evidence. But I, I think I would do it the way–

Christine: I mean, if I get evidence, that’s great, right? But like also I’m a little scared, and I’d rather she just kind of–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –make her way to the, to the afterlife, if that’s her plan.

Em: If I were to get evidence though, I still would not go down there. I think I would do the Zak Bagans move of like putting a microphone on a huge boom pole and just slowly weaving it down there–

Christine: [chuckles] Just like slowly–

Em: –and just be like, “If you wanna say anything–“

Christine: I genuinely thought you were gonna say, “Do the thing Zak Bagans does and send you or, or Eva down there,” and I was–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –like, “Thanks a lot.” [laughs] Like how he sends Aaron.

Em: No, or like a camera on a stick and just like kind of fish it over and just be like–

Christine: You and I would literally tie a GoPro onto a tampon and like roll it down there and be like, “Anything?”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “We’re not trying to bother you. We just want to help, but also like will you do us a solid and say hi?” Yeah, that’s where we’d land, I think.

Em: I, I understand.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: I would– I– I’m glad that we would both at least do something even if it’s not ethical–

Christine: It’s good stu–

Em: I don’t– not sure.

Christine: Oh, I think we have to interact with her. I’d be like, “What is the deal?”

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “What’s the deal?”

Em: “Lend me your ears, babe.”

Christine: “Just te– ‘Spen’ me, spen me– [chuckles] Spin me a tale.”

Em: “Spin me a tale.” Oh, that one needs to come back too.

Christine: Yeah, yeah. I need to learn how to say it first–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –but then we can definitely bring it back. [chuckles]

Em: Sure. Just like how before my story Christine had, uh, an announcement, I also have an announcement.

Christine: Yes, yes, yes.

Em: Is it okay that I put it here?

Christine: Please. That’s perfect.

Em: ‘kay, cool.

Christine: That’s actually way better, I think.

Em: So, uh, we had a listener reach out named Sydney, who has a best friend, Mally [pronounced “Mal-lee”]. I think that’s how we’re– it’s pronounced. Mally?

Christine: It is Mally. It Is Mally, yeah.

Em: Um, Mally’s also been a listener for a long time but recently got some news that, uh, her kidneys are failing, and she needs a transplant. And because of her blood type, um, doctors told her that it could take like six to eight years to receive–

Christine: [gasps]

Em: –a kidney through the standard waitlist, so– It was just devastating. So um, Sydney reached out and was saying that Mally’s best chance is finding a living donor. And Sydney actually wanted to donate herself, but, um, wasn’t eligible. So–

Christine: Oh.

Em: –um, we’re just reaching out to the community to see if this moves anybody to go find out, you know, for Mally–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –or even for somebody in your own life, to see if you’re a match.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Um, and you don’t have to be a direct match, by the way, for– to, to help. Yale’s kidney exchange program can match incompatible donors within a larger network. So that can also help–

Christine: Oh, how cool.

Em: –Mally receive a transplant. Um, so don’t count yourself out just because you think you might not be a match. But if you’re 21 or older and you are interested at all, um, again, for Mally, uh, or, again, somebody else in your own life, if you’re curious about organ donation, um, and being a living donor, you can visit Yale New Haven’s living donor program at ynhh.org/organdonation, and you can also call the Center for Living Organ Donors at 866-925-3897. All the donor-related medical costs are handled by the hospital. Um, and obviously, there’s zero pressure here, but we just wanted to help Sydney reach out to the masses.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: She’s trying to do a, a really good thing for her friend. And Mally, if you’re listening, we hope that you’re doing okay with all this. And, um, yeah, if you are a, a match or if you know somebody who might be or is interested, um– How would you know if you’re a match? But if you know someone who’s interested in finding out if they are then, then–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –please reach out through those, uh, sources.

Christine: Yeah, that’s awesome. Thank you for, um, putting that, uh, putting that so coherently to you and Katie who’ve kind of like, um, were in contact with her. So yeah, that’s really, that’s really scary. And, um, I hope, I hope somebody– I hope this moves somebody or, you know, at least gets, gets the word out. And, um, lots of love to both of you.

Em: Yeah, if– I, uh– it’s– You know, we’re– Thank you, Sydney, for also reaching out and being a real homie and trying to help out your friend. But I– I’m sure that the two of you are not the only, uh–

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: –dynamic going through this right now that listens. So it’s just a general–

Christine: I know. I know.

Em: –PSA to anybody who might need it.

Christine: Yes, yes. I love that. Love that. Well put.

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Christine’s Story – Athalia Ponsell Lindsley and Francis Bemis

Christine: Okay. So I’m going to tell you a story now, Em. This is the story of Athalia Ponsell Lindsley and her brutal murder.

Em: Good.

Christine: Yeah. Great. Good times. This one’s a weird one. It’s a doozy. Okay? So Athalia, first of all, love the name, Athalia. It’s just something–

Em: Ethereal.

Christine: Very ethereal. Athalia was born Mary Ann Fetter on July 25, 1917 in good old Toledo, Ohio. Her father was a wealthy utilities magnate. So she grew up, um, in money. Like she was wealthy. She lived in a wealthy family. They actually were so wealthy that they lived in something called a “marble palace.” So–

Em: [chuckles] Fuck. Okay.

Christine: [chuckles] Speaking of like the marble floor of the Egyptian, uh, Theatre that was end– that ended up being dumpster tiles–

Em: Right. [chuckles]

Christine: –um, mod-podged together, uh, this one was actually a marble palace on the Isle of Pines, south of Cuba. Like this is–

Em: Of course.

Christine: –the– Yeah, of course. Naturally.

Em: Well, so is mine, so.

Christine: Yeah, [chuckles] same, same.

Em: Um, also like I– First of all, you never hear “magnate” anymore. I would love someone–

Christine: I know.

Em: –to just be honest and tell us who they are, and they’re like, “I’m a magnate.”

Christine: It’s a sexy w– It’s a sexy word, I think, “magnate.”

Em: And I– “Oh, which magnate?” “Oh, the one in the marble palace,” so.

Christine: Oh my god. I thought you said a “witch magnate,” and I went, “Yes.” I– That– It’s that. I want that. A witch magnate. [chuckles]

Em: I, I would like there to be a magnate involved in magnets – a magnet magnate.

Christine: A magnet magnate. [laughs]

Em: That’d be very funny.

Christine: Stupid.

Em: [chuckles] Okay, sorry. Keep going.

Christine: “I’m the heir of the magnet magnate fortune.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I mean, it’s just ridiculous. Uh, yeah. So her father was a utilities magnate. Boring. Um, but they lived in a marble palace, of course, uh–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –on the Isle of Pines, south of Cuba and grew up, uh, in this environment. She was tall. She was described as “willowy, beautiful,” attended private schools, was raised very, uh, creme de la creme. She moved to Jacksonville, Florida, as a young girl and ultimately ended up in New York City, becoming something called a “Powers model.” Um, and I guess what I want to say here is like this was– I, I don’t know how else to put it except that she was very much hated– Like it reminds me of, um, someone divisive today. Like someone successful and divisive like–

Em: Mm. Like using their powers for evil.

Christine: And I don’t want– No, more just like some people are like, “Go, girl,” and some people are like hateful. I don’t know the right way– She was, she was uh… It was–

Em: She was interested in making friends.

Christine: Yes.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Thank you. Thank you.

Em: Okay.

Christine: That is so well put. Okay. I knew you’d have the language for it. So she became a “Powers model,” and at the time, a “Powers model” was like quite an elite thing. Um, this guy, John Robert Powers, was an American actor, and he founded a modeling agency in New York City and a modeling school. And so those who wanted to be successful in Hollywood, um, would often attend his sort of training programs.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Okay? And, um, his Wikipedia is an interesting rabbit hole and definitely has like quite a bit of, uh, controversy in and of itself. Like so if you want to go down that rabbit hole, I definitely recommend it. But I’m just kind of giving you an idea of her backstory here. During World War II, she played “bit parts” in Broadway musicals. Um, she was a chorus line dancer.

Em: Ooh.

Christine: Yep. And then her probably most prominent role, and this is where we get into that fou– uh, I almost said found footage, that lost footage, hopefully someday found–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –um, footage because she actually was a television personality for a while.

Em: Get out.

Christine: I know. And she was on the show– a game show called Winner Take All hosted by Bud Collyer [pronounced “col-lee-er”]. And th–

Em: I think it’s Bud Collyer [pronounced “coll-lee-eh”].

Christine: Bud Collier [pronounced “coll-lee-eh”]. Yeah. Obviously. I’m no g–

Em: Sorry. I just surrounded myself with magnates and that’s how they say it, so.

Christine: [laughs] You’re f– a game show magnate.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I mean, you of all people would know how to pronounce like old, old game show host names.

Em: It just so– And maybe it is Collyer [pronounced “col-lee-er”], but in his transatlantic accent, I think it was Bud Collyer [pronounced “bod coll-lee-eh”].

Christine: That’s definitely it then.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Let’s go with that.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Uh, okay. So l– Thank you for that correction. Um, during– So during this time, she was sort of like a support role. Unfortunately, we can’t fucking know for sure because there’s no footage of it because the studios would just tape over all their shows, and–

Em: So crazy.

Christine: –once the tapes degraded enough, they tossed them. It was just like they saw TV and stuff as like disposable, I guess. And it was like, “Why would we save this?” And now it’s just like has people on the internet ripping their hair out–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –like desperate for their thesis statement or their dissertation to find something. Like I mean, I found forums where people were like, “I’m writing my thesis on this person–“ This was in 2022. Somebody was posting that like they h– couldn’t find the footage of this and wanted to– and were writing about her murder and wanted to find this footage. And I was like, “Me too.”

Em: I mean, without knowing anything, it like– it just immediately feels suspicious that she is a murder victim and lost footage of her is missing. It just f– It feels like it’s intentional.

Christine: I know.

Em: And I kn– They’re probably two completely separate situations, but it just feels odd.

Christine: They are definitely separate, and you’ll see why. I bel– I think unless there’s something like way deeper underfoot–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –um, which I’ll always entertain, but I think, in this case, it is just a coincidence, uh, but it is kind of an ominous one.

Em: Okay.

Christine: You know? It’s just a little ominous–

Em: I mean, yes, it is. Yeah.

Christine: –that there’s no footage of it anywhere. Um, but–

Em: Just feels like missing evidence all of a sudden.

Christine: It does. And, and the show, Winner Take All, uh, I gue– I don’t– I didn’t know the show. I mean, it sounds familiar, but it’s also like a phrase, so I don’t know if I knew the show. Essentially, it’s one of the earliest televised game shows ever. It paved the way for a lot of other game shows, even though it was like very simple. And like I said, there’s no known surviving footage of the show–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –so [chuckles] we don’t really fucking know unless you’re 105 and watched it in your toddler program or whatever we said about the–

Em: Wouldn’t it be crazy if it was like f– like it filmed over the, uh, the movie I was talking about and now they’re both missing?

Christine: Oh my god.

Em: Just like constant recycled film of lost footage.

Christine: Wow. Talk about like a haunting. Like that feels haunted, you know.

Em: There’s got to be a haunted movie reel somewhere of like–

Christine: Haunted footage? Yeah, definitely.

Em: Yeah. Oh my god.

Christine: Definitely.

Em: Has to be.

Christine: I don’t, I don’t doubt that for a second. Okay, so this is kind of Athalia’s whole deal, right? She was also reportedly a friend of the Boston Kennedys, and she wintered with them in Palm Beach, which is why I was kind of earlier when you said like, “Oh, this was the child ghost summer home,” I was like, “Really? We can do that in the afterlife?”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Um, so she’s wintering with the Kennedys. Uh, she actually dated Joseph P. Kennedy Jr., and rumors suggested they were engaged, but then he died in that plane crash during World War II. Um, now we kind of fast forward at this point. Um, you kind of know what you need to know about like her backstory. She had been married and divorced twice before she moved to St. Augustine, Florida, in 1971. And in 1973, she married a man named James “Jinx” Lindsley, a successful real estate agent and former mayor of St. Augustine, Florida.

Em: I’m sorry, but you just know his tagline is like, “We won’t jinx ya.”

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah. “Don’t jinx it. Vote for Jinx.” Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Em: He– Brad Korb in my town would hate Jinx Lindsley.

Christine: Now, that would be a fanfic–

Em: That would be–

Christine: –of the– for the ages.

Em: That would be incredible. It’s like–

Christine: Let’s write that.

Em: –“Brad Korb’s done it again. But Jinx isn’t a jinx.”

Christine: “Jinxed it all.” Wow.

Em: Something like that.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: Someone else in the comments, someone smarter than me, have fun.

Christine: “He was gonna win it all but–“

Em: There’s your prompt.

Christine: “–his, his latest win was jinxed by–“

Em: There’s something there.

Christine: We’ll work on it. Okay, so–

Em: It’s, it’s like how, It’s like how in Orange County their car dealership is like, “In Orange, we’re not a lemon.” Something like that.

Christine: [laughs]

Em: You know?

Christine: Yeah. It’s just like that.

Em: It’s just like that.

Christine: It’s the same thing. Um, yeah. So Jinx and– Like I’ve had this conversation on this podcast with you before, but it never fails to amuse me when rich people have ridiculous nicknames like–

Em: 100%.

Christine: –Jinx Lindsley. And then we’ve got um, you know, I knew a Pants. Um, you’ve got B–

Em: His name was Pants?

Christine: Her name was Pants.

Em: Her name was Pants. Okay.

Christine: I knew, um, a Jock. Oh, she’s married to Jock. And then, um, there’s like, uh, Bunny, you know, like the kind of like nickname– like the kind of like country clubby nicknames.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And so Jinx just kind of reeks of that to me. I mean, it’s a fun nickname, but like just in the time period knowing– He’s also like a real estate agent and the mayor, so it just kind of like, you know–

Em: I mean, Mayor Jinx?

Christine: –you know.

Em: I’m sorry. There’s just so much good promo you could do with that. Okay.

Christine: It’s– It writes itself. It really does.

Em: It does.

Christine: I mean, apparently not ’cause you and I cannot fucking write it–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: –but– [laughs]

Em: Well, like, give me more than 30 fucking seconds, you know.

Christine: I know, on the spot. On the spot. You’re right. This isn’t the game show, Winner Take All. Okay?

Em: You’re right.

Christine: Uh, okay. So she moves to St. Augustine. Um, she’s on her third marriage. I say that to just say like she’s kind of like done fucking around with a lot of things in her life and like you–

Em: Good for her.

Christine: –really well put earlier, um, she’s not here to make friends. Okay? She’s newly married. Athalia and Jinx live in separate houses. Some people make a big deal of this. I don’t think it’s really that odd, um, because they’re wealthy and like married and in this– the ’70s. I don’t know. I don’t think it’s that odd, but make with– make of that what you will. But Athalia herself lived at 124 Marine Street. And this was, um, a residence that was valued at about $75,000 at the time, which today is around $600,000. Um, it was a Spanish style residence. Meanwhile, her husband, Jinx, lived at the historic Lindley House, which, again, just to remind you, is his last name, so, uh–

Em: I mean, it’s kind of like Schulzforth Manor. It’s like–

Christine: Yeah, right. Except–

Em: Jinx Lindsley, I know you. We see each other. You know what I mean?

Christine: Except like I think, no offense, Em, but I think his is more like that’s actually what the place is like called.

Em: Well, he is also a real estate person. I think he found ways to make it official. Mine’s just a–

Christine: You make a very good point. But he also–

Em: Mine’s just fantastical.

Christine: –was the mayor, [chuckles] so.

Em: See, he was just– He had more power than I did. That’s all. That’s the only difference.

Christine: That’s what I’m saying. I think he just kind of had a little more right to the throne. And I don’t say that like– I say that with all the–

Em: Let’s not forget I’m gonna be mayor. You’ll see.

Christine: Okay. All right.

Em: And you’re gonna feel real silly by saying–

Christine: I, I will–

Em: I’m just saying.

Christine: I will vote for you.

Em: Thank you. You’re not in my district, I don’t think. But that’s okay.

Christine: I will–

Em: I’m gonna collab with Mayor Max and then that’ll–

Christine: I’ll vote for you in my heart.

Em: Mayor Max is a little nearby– By the way, oh, I almost texted Mayor Max yesterday. [chuckles] I’ve told you about Mayor Max.

Christine: Texted?

Em: Yeah, I, um, I told you a while ago? Mayor Max.

Christine: Oh, yeah. Oh, I, I– Oh, I recall.

Em: The golden retriever. Uh–

Christine: I didn’t know he had a phone though.

Em: He– Mayor Max is a golden retriever. He is the honorary, uh, mayor of a town nearby, and him and I now have each other’s phone numbers. Um–

Christine: Oh, yeah.

Em: And I was trying to text, uh, RJ’s wife, Maire. And so I asked–

Christine: Ohh.

Em: –my phone, “Hey, text Maire,” and it said, “What do you want to say to Mayor Max?” And I went, “[chuckles] So many things. Put it away.”

Christine: [laughs]

Em: “So many things. I can’t do it right now.”

Christine: “Oh, don’t get me started.”

Em: [laughs] Anyway, Mayor Max, if you’re he– if you’re listening, I love you.

Christine: “I have an addendum to issue 2.3.” Um–

Em: [laughs]

Christine: “What do you want to say to Mayor Max?” That’s hilarious.

Em: It’s like, I don’t have the time. Uh, anyway.

Christine: Oh my god, I hate when my phone does that. “What do you want to say to your old college professor?” Why the fuck would I be texting my o– Like, come on.

Em: I know.

Christine: Okay. Anyway, let’s get back to the story. So, so Jinx lives at the historic Lindsley House on St. George Street, um, while Athalia lives on Marine Street. She was described at the time as, um, “feisty,” “outspoken,” and “abrasive.” So to give you the idea of like– You know, she wasn’t necessarily well-liked among those who liked a mild-mannered woman. [chuckles]

Em: Yeah. A– If, if you’re looking for a warm woman, it ain’t her.

Christine: Yeah. People didn’t like her very much. So in the Orlando Sentinel, she was described as quote, “A sharp tonged, aggressive woman who ‘would not have won any popularity contests.’” [chuckles]

Em: Damn. And she probably knew that about herself and she was fine with that.

Christine: Big time. You have to know. If the newspaper is publishing it about you, you better know it.

Em: Someone’s telling you.

Christine: 'Cause you, you better–

Em: Maybe not–

Christine: You gotta–

Em: –’cause you don’t have friends, but whatever.

Christine: Yeah. Open the door and read the room.

Em: [laughs]

Christine: Read the newspaper. [laughs]

Em: Kick a rock, drink some coffee, fly a kite.

Christine: Yeah. [chuckles] Wow. That was harsh. Uh, so in 1970, she actually made an unsuccessful bid for state senator. Um, and she was planning to run for the St. Johns County Commission, but in the meantime, she got very involved with her community. Um, unfortunately, that was often in a very abrasive way. And so she would show up at these weekly county commission meetings, and she would just like denounce local officials–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –obviously mostly men. And so specifically, one particular neighbor she had a problem with, uh, was called Alan Stanford, and he was the county manager and county engineer of St. Augustine. And the feud that the two of them had began over Athalia’s pets because, like any rough [chuckles] around the edges and slightly unlikable woman, she had a menagerie of rescue animals. And she had a goat. She had six or seven rescue dogs. And like for a wealthy woman to be kind of collecting animals like this, the neighbor was really pissed. And–

Em: Sure.

Christine: –Alan basically said, “The barking is incessant.” Like–

Em: I was gonna say, the sound, the smell.

Christine: The sound, the smell. It’s like, you know, he’s thinking, “I pay for like a house here, yada yada.” Um, and so they get into this feud, and like she is not gonna back down, right? So neighbors had actually– Like not just him, but other neighbors, including a Colonel McCormick, had actually filed noise complaints already and nuisance warrants because of these animals she had.

Em: Whoopsies.

Christine: Athalia would then retaliate, uh, by kind of being a little erratic. She would like cut the limbs off their trees, typically over the property line, but like she was kind of antagonizing them, right?

Em: Sure.

Christine: Um, whether she like knew it or not or whether it was warranted or not is not for me to say, but like she was definitely not calming the fire. She was fanning the flames.

Em: Okay.

Christine: Um, she planted ten-foot tall bamboo to obstruct Allen’s view. [chuckles] So she’s just like fucking with the guy.

Em: She really is saying like just– She’s just– It’s a clear boundary. She’s like, “I just–“

Christine: Yeah.

Em: “I just want to separate myself from you. Deal with it.”

Christine: Yeah. Um, but also kind of–

Em: To piss him off.

Christine: Yeah. Kind of poking it– poking the bear, you know? Like she didn’t need to block his view to like make a point. You know what I mean? Like she’s kind of, she’s kind of antagonizing him. And, uh, she, for example, goes to, you know, county meetings and is like, “He’s not fit to run.” like she’s really taking it personally. Like she’s, she’s not engaging in healthy boundary setting, let’s put it that way, from my humble opinion. I think, uh, she’s maybe–

Em: She’s–

Christine: –antagonizing him a little bit, uh–

Em: Like she’s–

Christine: –which like fair, you can do that. It’s just unfortunately, in this case, it did not end well.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: Yeah, it’s rough. Um, so you know, they have this feud going. I mean, it’s like out of a sitcom, right? Like you build a really tall fence to fuck with your neighbor, and then they get mad, so you cut their tree down– I mean, it’s like the classic just neighbor stuff, so I’m not trying to like victim blame here at all. Um–

Em: No, it feels like a– like for now a bit of– It could be a buddy comedy so far.

Christine: Exactly. Exactly. And it’s like I wish it had just stopped there. Um, like she’s got a goat, right? He’s pissed about the pet goat. I mean, it– Again, it’s like out of a, out of a movie. Um, so the tension just escalated though because Athalia then made a report, a public report, claiming that Alan lacked the “requisite certification” to be the county engineer. So now she’s like coming for the man’s job.

Em: Mm-hmm. Okay.

Christine: Alan reportedly told Athalia in her driveway, “You’re a vicious and evil woman, and one day, I’m going to fix you.”

Em: “Fix you” is crazy.

Christine: That’s just beyond.

Em: “Fix you” is crazy.

Christine: I mean, really.

Em: There’s some real vitriol in that last half.

Christine: Oh, it’s alarming. It’s alarming. Uh, at a county meeting in October 1973, Athalia basically told the commission, “This man threatened my life–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: “–and like it’s not cool.” So the date of the murder was January 23, 1974, and it was the first day of the Chinese New Year. It was the Year of the Tiger, in case you’re wondering, and I know you were.

Em: I was.

Christine: Athalia and Jinx traveled to Jacksonville to buy frozen vegetables for a, quote, “home-cooked Chinese dinner.”

Em: Sick.

Christine: You know, you know, pretty exciting stuff. Athalia reportedly joked that it was “considered unlucky that day to use a sharp instrument, especially a knife.” But, oh, well, they cut up vegetables and made dinner anyway.

Em: Ha-ha-ha. Okay.

Christine: It’s also unlucky to cut your hair on Chinese New Year.

Em: Is it?

Christine: Yep. And you know how I found out?

Em: 'Cause you did it?

Christine: No. [chuckles] My brother had a haircut appointment, and it got cancelled last minute, and then the friend we were with was like, “Oh, you know, it’s actually unlucky to ha– get your haircut on Chinese New Year.”

Em: Mm.

Christine: And we were like, “What?” So, you know, he was spared, but fun fact. Um, so she jokes like, “Ha-ha, we shouldn’t even be using a knife on Chinese New Year.” It just is a little bit–

Em: Too on the nose.

Christine: –foreshadowing. I mean, too on the nose foreshadowing.

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Christine: The couple returned to St. Augustine. Jinx went to his home, uh, on A-Anastasia Island. Athalia went to her home on Marine Street, and, according to reports, she decided to take her pet on a walk. And what pet was it, you may ask? It was, of course–

Em: The goat?

Christine: –and I quote, her, quote, “crippled pet blue jay, Clementine.”

Em: Hm. Okay.

Christine: Now, Clementine–

Em: For a walk?

Christine: –the bl– For a walk.

Em: W-was the, the dis-disability that he can’t fly? It’s a bird.

Christine: I– I’ll be honest. I don’t know. All I do know is that she carried him around in a cage–

Em: Oh, okay.

Christine: –so I’m assuming so. Uh–

Em: I was like, “Walking a bird’s fucking insane.” That’s just jail to a bird.

Christine: I mean, look at her. She’s like walking around with a– I know, right? You’re like, “Ha-ha, look at what you ca–“ [laughs]

Em: “Ha-ha. You’re on a leash when you could do this so much faster.”

Christine: I mean, I’ve seen that when you have like a s– a bird that needs the– needs that sort of–

Em: Rehab or something, yeah.

Christine: –rehab or like needs that sort of outdoor time. But like yeah, this is not that. This is certainly not that. And this is also Florida, and this is also rich people in Florida. So like let’s–

Em: It does feel like something only a rich person would do.

Christine: –let’s not forget.

Em: It’s like, “I’m gonna go walk my blue jay.”

Christine: [chuckles] “My crippled blue jay in her cage.”

Em: [laughs]

Christine: I mean, and like it’s very Tiger King, all this shit. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s Florida, okay? It’s these rich politician people in Florida who all are selling real estate and like just naming things after themselves and like walking their pet birds and like screaming at the neighbors–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –and like gossiping. I mean, it’s just a like– It could have been a, a reality show, and I would have absolutely watched it, you know?

Em: Yeah, understood.

Christine: Unfortunately, it ended up like in a much worse place. But, um, as of like up to now, you’re right, buddy comedy. Like walking a par– like a walking a– What was it?

Em: It just feels like something Jim Carrey would do. It’s like–

Christine: Yes.

Em: Yeah.

Christine: It’s like a little bit like quirky, eccentric, offbeat. Um, so, okay. She goes to walk her pet blue jay, Clementine. And as she exits the home sometime between 5:30 p.m. and 6:00 p.m., a middle-aged man in a “white dress shirt and dark dress pants” quickly approached Athalia, pulled out a machete, and began to hack her to death.

Em: Holy shit. And it– So it wasn’t–

Christine: She–

Em: –our, our main character. It’s probably a hired situation since they’re rich.

Christine: We– I’m just gonna say right now, we have no idea.

Em: Okay. Wow.

Christine: So this man in the white dress shirt and dark pants approaches, begins to hack at her with a machete. She was struck nine times, um, with this thing and sustained defensive wounds on her arms. One finger was severed, and when police arrived, they described her body as “nearly decapitated.”

Em: Oh my god. Fuck.

Christine: It was an extremely brutal and bloody murder. It was in public on her doorstep, uh, just really shocking. Um, her “blue and white dress was hiked up” when they found her.

Em: [groans]

Christine: Her shoe was lost. Her “pearls were scattered on the sidewalk.” Clementine’s bird cage was “smashed,” and the bird was never seen again.

Em: So someone stole Clementine? Or like it was– Like it flew away?

Christine: Or it– Or– Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. No clue.

Em: So also y-you learn in that that they weren’t robbing her ’cause her pearls are everywhere.

Christine: Right.

Em: Um, it, it does feel like if it were a hired hit, it was not done– Well, I don’t know. I was gonna say it wasn’t done well because it was in broad daylight, but maybe they wanted it to be a spectacle of like–

Christine: Could, could very well be. And, you know, that’s where this case starts to get really twisty-turny is because you’re thinking, “Well, would they– That’s what they would want you to think. But that’s what they would want you to think,” you know.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And it kind of goes in that cycle. Um, so you’re definitely on to something. Unfortunately, there was, um– Well, fortunately, there was a witness, but unfortunately, it was an 18-year-old boy named Locke McCormick who lived next door, and he heard what he described as a “peculiar slapping noise” while he was just reading a magazine. He looked out the window and saw a man “swinging his arm downward” and walking away–

Em: [sucks in a breath]

Christine: –toward neighbor Alan’s property.

Em: Oof.

Christine: So Locke ran inside and told his mother and grandmother, and I quote, “Mr. Stanford is hitting Mrs. Ponsell,” because from his perspective–

Em: Mm-hmm. Yeah, you wouldn’t think like he has a machete.

Christine: –he saw a man with a machete, hitting that person and walking toward, uh, Mr. Stanford’s house. So he’s like, “Mr. Stanford was just hitting her,” but he didn’t really understand. The McCormicks found Athalia. They went over there, and they found her–

Em: I mean–

Christine: –in a pool of blood, just the worst possible scenario, and called the police, of course, and a trail of blood led from the body toward the driveway at the south side of Athalia’s home right near neighbor Alan’s house.

Em: Mm.

Christine: There was no weapon found at the scene. And in February of 1974, a county mechanic named Dewey Lee searched a marsh miles away to claim a $500 reward. And he did because he found a package in the marsh containing a blood-stained white shirt, dark blue trousers, a belt, a purple tie, and a wristwatch, and near this packet was a rusty machete.

Em: [sighs]

Christine: And when they traced the wristwatch back by its serial number, it went straight to neighbor Alan.

Em: Uh-oh, that’ll do it.

Christine: The shirt and pants were also identified as having been purchased by Alan’s wife, and his name was written in some of them. But this is when you start to get into the theory of, “Is it too obvious?”

Em: Mm.

Christine: She has a public feud with this guy. Did someone else want her dead and f– like say, “Well, this is easy. Her neighbor fucking hates her and says he’s gonna kill her.” And then she went to the county whatever and said, “My neighbor says he’s gonna kill me.” But then again, you know, you look at every other fucking pattern and guess what?

Em: Right.

Christine: A man says he’s gonna kill you, he just might, so.

Em: I mean, is it– So it, it could have been him.

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It, it could– I mean, could it have been like a stalker who like was obsessed with her on TV or something? Like it–

Christine: I don’t think–

Em: I know it’s like random, but–

Christine: I think it was more an act of–

Em: I mean, all the clothes say his name, you know. [chuckles] Never mind.

Christine: I mean, yeah, it was definitely like an act of some sort of– But the oth– alternate theory being like maybe it was the new husband or somebody who wanted her out of the picture and–

Em: Mm.

Christine: –found the neighbor to be an easy scapegoat. Do you know what I mean? Like–

Em: It f– It feels too easy to me.

Christine: It feels too easy. But then I’m also like, but men have done worse for l– not worse, but like men have done shit like this for like lesser insults or like le– You know what I mean? So I’m like it could very well just be he had no– he wasn’t in control of his fucking–

Em: I mean–

Christine: He just–

Em: –I guess he like– You have to have a very specific level of rage to not think to at least do it in a place where nobody’s gonna see.

Christine: Yeah. So it makes you won–

Em: Like he had to be seeing red to do that–

Christine: Right.

Em: –and think, “I’m gonna get away with this,” or–

Christine: Right.

Em: –“I don’t even think about getting away with it.”

Christine: Right. Exactly. My thoughts, exactly. It’s sort of like either he was so fucking pissed that he like lost any semblance of “I’ve got to cover this up–“

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “–’cause I have an important job I want to keep,” and he just totally threw that out the window, or it was somebody like kind of pointing it to him. So yeah, I–

Em: Like pr– trying to peg it on him. Yeah.

Christine: Yeah. I agree ’cause I just found that really strange. But, you know, sometimes it is just the simplest answer. So anyway, we’ll get to it. So we get now back to the investigation. Um, Alan, after finding– after this package was found– And like that too, you know, people have pointed to like, “Oh, a packet with his clothes that have his name on it?”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: “Like doesn’t that feel a little obvious?” But it’s also like, well, yeah, if you have clothes you killed someone in, you would, you would hide them, you know, in the woods or something. So I, I go back and forth. Either way, he’s arrested ’cause, of course, and indicted for first-degree murder four weeks into the investigation. Um, at the trial, defense attorney Edward Booth argued that the sheriff’s office had “planted the evidence” to frame Alan, which is like a huge claim to say that the sheriff’s office planted this. Um, but that’s because they had this sort of alternate theory they were presenting to the jury. Booth suggested that the mechanic who had found the clothes and stuff, Dewey Lee, could have committed the crime and then planted them, uh, to get the reward.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Um, he also claimed like maybe it was her– somebody else because, you know, she’s so unlikable, right? Like ma–

Em: Right, it could have been anybody.

Christine: She had a lot of enemies. Yeah, anybody. Exactly. He actually characterized her as an “obnoxious,” “strange,” and “vicious” woman with many enemies. Um, and the neighbor, when they brought him up, Locke, um, under cross-examination, he actually recanted that it was Mr. Stanford.

Em: Mm.

Christine: And he said the kid– the killer he saw was actually “heavier with more hair.” So it’s like unclear whether–

Em: Does that resemble the guy? Like this–

Christine: Which guy?

Em: Sorry. Uh, that– So it does– That’s– He wasn’t e–

Christine: So he’s basically saying–

Em: He wasn’t e–

Christine: –he’s recanting–

Em: Right, but he wasn’t, uh, Mr. Stanford, or what’s his na– Al-Alan?

Christine: Yes, he’s–

Em: Or whatever?

Christine: Yeah, Alan Stanford. He’s saying, “Oh, the– this guy was way heavier and had more hair than Alan Stanford. Couldn’t have been him.” Um, and it was further complicated because the sheriff had actually had him interviewed under hypnosis. So now everyone’s arguing like, “Well, is his story now true? Or is it like less true?” It– It’s just unclear. Like he’s changing his story, so that kind of makes it more confusing. Um, witnesses provided an alibi stating that Alan, uh, was actually in his office at the time of the murder, and so whether these people were telling the truth or were part of some other plan– Um, the jury deliberated for only 2 to 2.5 hours. And, uh, interestingly enough, side note, during deliberations, the jurors were served a, quote, “dinner on the county.” Um, and–

Em: Uh-huh. That’s fucking bribery, babe.

Christine: Yeah. Like the guy works for the county, the guy who is get– on trial for murder, like lest we forget.

Em: I feel like– I, I feel like it could have been him. And even though the neighbor is saying, “Oh, well, I don’t think it was him because he was heavier or whatever–” I mean, I know what my neighbors look like. And–

Christine: And the sheriff like made him go under hypnosis to like–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: It’s just the whole thing reeks of something weird, I think.

Em: Or like if I saw– if I looked out the window and I saw someone hitting or stabbing my neighbor, I would know pretty immediately if– who it was. Like for him to so quickly go, “Oh, it was, it was Alan.” And then–

Christine: Yeah.

Em: –and then go like, “Oh, well, he’s heavier and ha–” Like, fuck that. Like he also could have looked heavier ’cause he was hunched over stabbing a dead woman. Like–

Christine: Yeah, but then you wonder like he just maybe assumed it was him and never saw his face. Do you know what I mean? Like maybe it was like–

Em: I guess so. I– Maybe I’m like reading too much into like what I would do, but like if I saw someone, I, I would–

Christine: You’re right. You’re right. You’re right.

Em: –I’d be like, “Who is that? Who is doing this?”

Christine: You, you wouldn’t just say, “That must be Alan.”

Em: Like–

Christine: Like you’re–

Em: Like my–

Christine: Like if someone were attacking someone, even if it was on their front step, you wouldn’t assume it’s the next-door neighbor. You’d be like, “Who’s attacking my next-door neighbor?”

Em: Especially if they’re in a small town, everybody knows everybody, and this guy is like a major player that everyone knows. You don’t–

Christine: And they’ve got beef, and you know that he’s two doors down from you. I mean, in one of the sources, I saw him say like that the stature or the walk reminded him of him, and I’m like, “Well, then I think maybe we can trust that ID,” but–

Em: I think he was just a kid and he was scared of like accusing someone who has power and lives two doors down.

Christine: Right. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. Uh, it’s–

Em: I’m sure he was threatened. If this guy is paying the, the jury or giving the jury all this really nice meal to like shut them up or–

Christine: It’s shady as fuck.

Em: –sweet-talk them in some way, I’m sure he also bribed or secretly threatened this 18-year-old kid who was like, “Your mom and your grandma live here, and like some blah-blah-blah–“

Christine: Yeah.

Em: “–and you know what I’m capable of, blah-blah-blah.” Like he could have said anything or like said–

Christine: Who knows? Or even the sheriff said, “You can’t fuck with, you can’t fuck with the count–“

Em: Yeah.

Christine: Like, “He’s on the county. You can’t– You have to do this or that.” like what are you gonna do–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –you know, if the sheriff tells you. Yeah. So I agree, it’s definitely shady, um, and just–

Em: This feels, this feels like a closed case to me.

Christine: I mean, it’s like once you put it out– all out like that, it feels pretty obvious. Um, so they, of course, paint her as having lots of enemies and it could have be– could be anyone. Um, and then like, you know, two hours of deliberation while they eat dinner on his dime. Um, he’s found not guilty.

Em: Hm.

Christine: So sher– The sheriff says he refuses to pursue anyone else. He says, um, he believed he had the right man when he did, and now it’s just– everybody’s just gonna move on. So you think that’s the end.

Em: Oh?

Christine: It's not.

Em: Okay.

Christine: So, of course, you can imagine that this murder stirred up some drama in town and stirred up a lot of talk. This woman was already divisive. She was well-known. She’d been on– She’d been a television personality. She was married to the former mayor. Like she’s– This is a big deal. She was murdered to death with a machete on her front step. Like this is big news. So when reporters are going around like talking to those who knew her, one of her friends– Frances Bemis, was her name. She was like a friend who lived nearby, and she was like, “You know what? I’m actually like writing– She did have a lot of people that didn’t like her very much, and, uh, I’m actually writing a book about this case on my friend’s murder because I’m like trying to get to the bottom of it.”

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: She was a 76-year-old PR specialist, newspaper writer, and fashion director. So she was very much like, um, high up for a woman of that time–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –like in the career world, you know. And so, she was like, “I’m gonna write about this,” and she was very open about that. Um, she was gathering material for a book about Athalia’s death. She claimed she had information pertinent to the case, but she told people like, “I am not afraid of this beautiful community we have. I’m still gonna go on my daily walks.” She actually even insisted that she had taken a walk the night Athalia was killed, and I was like, “Okay.”

Em: [chuckles] “I love your commitment to the bit, but like–“

Christine: Yeah, it’s a little bit like, “That’s not really a nice thing to say, but um, okay. Yeah, sure.” So anyway, she goes on these daily walks, and she insists that like the community is still safe. And we fast forward ten months – November 3, 1974. Frances goes for her nightly walk and disappears.

Em: [gasps]

Christine: Yeah.

Em: It’s this fucking guy. Like, what are you talking about?

Christine: It’s this fucking guy. Okay? Her body is found the next day in a vacant lot near the corner of Bridge and Marine streets. Her skull had been crushed with a “concrete block.”

Em: Yeah, that’s as violent as getting stabbed with a fucking machete until you’re almost decapitated. It’s the same guy.

Christine: Yeah. And her body was “partly burned” to destroy evidence, but like it didn’t work, so they just left everything there.

Em: Oh my god.

Christine: Um, and like remember, she’s a PR specialist and a professional writer and was reportedly gathering evidence about this murder–

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: –and was gonna write a book about it.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And she went on her daily routine walk, like, and talked about it in the newspaper. I mean, it’s just horrifying. So like, of course, the story immediately became like, “Oh my god, Frances knew something. She knew too much, and she was too open about it, and, um, you know, she wanted to reveal it and was killed to keep her quiet,” um, especially because she was known for being so outspoken, and she even insinuated to friends like, “I have more information than I can even let on.”

[Someone whoops in the distance from Christine’s mic.]

Christine: Sorry, there’s like teenagers outside.

Em: They sound like they’re having fun.

Christine: [under her breath] Oh my god.

Em: This is their ten minutes where they get to giggle with their crush.

Christine: I know. And scream and like play with each other’s backpacks–

Em: It’s karma.

Christine: I know. I get it.

Em: Karma, we were the same.

Christine: I get it. I do.

Em: S-someone’s probably stealing a boy’s baseball hat right now.

Christine: Yes. And like wear– Oh my god, you’re so right.

Em: Mm-hmm.

Christine: And someone’s just like longingly like–

Em: I know.

Christine: –jealous.

Em: [groans]

Christine: [chuckles]

Em: That was me every time.

Christine: That was me, too. [chuckles]

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: Okay, so her murder occurred on November 3, 1974. I know I said this already, but it’s important because roughly ten months after Athalia’s death is when this took place, and this was also while preparations were being made for the trial of Alan Stanford.

Em: Mm.

Christine: So don’t you think maybe she would have been somebody that was called upon to testify if she did have some information?

Em: I surely do.

Christine: So the killer had ripped off her clothes and attempted to burn the body to destroy evidence but failed, um, but there was no evidence of sexual assault. So that like further pointed to this motive of, you know, trying to silence her. Um, despite the high-profile nature of this crime and like the compounding effect of the first crime, um, the initial investigation was described as “flawed” and basically yielded no suspects, no leads, like just fizzled out. Um–

Em: Beyond me.

Christine: –just beyond. So the St. Augustine Police Department actually re-opened the case in 2012 because they wanted to apply more modern DNA testing to the evidence, but they actually were not able to really get much. And so both cases to this day, um, remain unsolved.

Em: Like that’s the stupidest one to be unsolved. It’s–

Christine: Isn’t that like infuriating? And it’s just a story of like a successful woman that everyone hated like and the men–

Em: Or like a powerful man who gets away with it–

Christine: –that got away with it–

Em: –just because of–

Christine: –’cause their feelings were hurt–

Em: –he’s a powerful man.

Christine: –or whatev– there was a goat outside. I know that’s simplifying it. I know. Okay, guys, but like, come on.

Em: It’s crazy.

Christine: I’m just sick of this shit. [chuckles]

Em: It just, it just feels so obvious to me.

Christine: Yes, it’s so fucking obvious. It’s like we have a– we finally have a f– like a, a fun character with a fucking bird and it has a TV show and like–

Em: [chuckles]

Christine: –you know, it’s like and then–

Em: It started so silly.

Christine: Right? Like it was like a buddy comedy for a minute and then you had to go and fuck it all up.

Em: Mm.

Christine: Pisses me off.

Em: Well, [chuckles] what are the odds that we’re bummed again? Um–

Christine: Well, my stomach just turned ’cause now I have to go to jiujitsu, and I’m terrified.

Em: Take a Klonopin. Like a little–

Christine: No, [chuckles] then I’m gonna just fall asleep on the mat.

Em: Oh, right, right, right. I was thinking more like of a– like a Propranolol situation where like it just makes you a little less nervous, but I understand.

Christine: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Maybe I’ll, uh, maybe I’ll just, uh, do a breathing exercise. I don’t know.

Em: Well, you’re gonna do great.

Christine: So s– Why am I so nervous? I think it’s ’cause it’s like Blaise’s friends and stuff and like his–

Em: Yeah, you want to impress them.

Christine: –crowd and I just– I just don’t even want to impress them. I just want to like be normal. [laughs]

Em: I would want to impress them.

Christine: I just–

Em: Or maybe it’s not impress.

Christine: It–

Em: It’s like I don’t want to embarrass myself.

Christine: Exactly. Like I just don’t wanna do something really, uh, really dumb. Like I don’t think anybody’s judging me, but it’s like I don’t– I just want to make sure I’m like–

Em: Yeah.

Christine: –a good representation of myself today, you know?

Em: [chuckles] And that’s why I got Propranolol. [chuckles] That’s–

Christine: Yeah, I get it. I get it.

Em: The stage fright of it all.

Christine: Mm-hmm.

Em: Well, you’re gonna do great.

Christine: Thank you. Thank you. Maybe I do have some left. I’ll go look.

Em: Yeah, I– Propranolol never hurt anyone. It’s a good time.

Christine: [chuckles] Yeah. Don’t– We’re not doctors. Don’t take that medical advice. [laughs]

Em: And by anyone, I mean me.

Christine: [sighs]

Em: Alright. Well, uh, and–

Christine: That’s–

Em: Why–

Christine: We–

Em: Drink.

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